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Tale of Two Strategies: Google's Inclusion & Indeed's Exclusion

The holidays are over, and business is business. The boys are back at it this week, pulling no punches ... just like you like it. Believe it or not, in addition to talking Google, Indeed and others, Monster (remember them?) get mad airtime. Here's a breakdown.

- Monster's new ad strategy

- Albert the Frog (don't ask, just listen)

- Indeed lays the smackdown

- TextRecruit partners

- There's a new addition to the "steaming hot pile of garbage"

And must more, as always. Listen now, and visit our valued sponsors: America's Job Exchange, Sovren, Ratedly and newly pimped Catch 22 Consulting.


Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls. It's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: The holidays are over, and business is business. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese Podcast. Consider yourself warned, recruiters. I'm Joel Cheesman.

Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash.

Joel: On this week's podcast a hibernating monster starts to wake up from its multi-year slumber. Indeed still hates job boards, unless they're advertising, of course, but they're starting to really make it official. Recruiters go under the microscope thanks to a new startup. It's another weekend edition, which means we may or may not be sober at the moment. Stay tuned. We'll be right back after a quick word from our sponsor.

Sponsor: Google, Lever, Entelo, Monster, Jibe. What do these companies and hundreds of others have in common? They all use Sovern technology. Some use our software to help people find the perfect job, while others use our technology to help companies find the perfect candidate. Sovren has been the global leader in recruitment intelligence software since 1996, and we can help improve your hiring process too. We'd love to help you make a perfect match. Visit, for a free demo.

Joel: Back in the swing of things, Chad. The holidays are over.

Chad: Yeah, believe it or not. It's about damn time, man.

Joel: Yeah, I'm about over family, but as I say that I've got family coming today, and for the rest of next week because I'm moving.

Chad: You lucky man.

Joel: Not too far away, but I am moving, so the family wants to come and help and see the new house and stuff. Yeah, I have a few more weeks of family, but it's all good.

Chad: Yeah, guys. They're moving because I know where they live now, and I currently don't know where their new house is, so, yeah, they're just trying to relocate..

Joel: I'm trying to escape Chad, basically. The less Chad knows, the better, so we're running from him. Do we have any shout-outs today? I'm a little bit amiss. I know we had a few.

Chad: We've got tons of shout-outs. First off, I'd like to start a shout-out to all the people in the Northeast that got pummeled by this goddamn bi-polar vortex thing. At first, I thought, "Hey, it's the Northeast. They get this shit all the time, big deal," but then I saw there was flooding, and I'm like, "Okay, that's a party foul, Mother Nature." It's way too freaking cold, crazy winds, snow, ice, and they also got flooding? Too much, man, that was way too much.

Joel: I'm going to call a New England Patriots conspiracy on that one, I think.

Chad: Make everybody feel bad for them. Hopefully, everybody's doing well and you're not iced-in all over the place because that shit looked nasty.

Joel: Well, if you are just listen to our current podcast as well as our last few podcasts. Our Predictions Podcast was fantastic, had Tim Sackett on for that.

Chad: Damn good.

Joel: Our year end-

Chad: I love.

Joel: Our Naughty-Nice List has gotten a lot of props. Shout-out to Gerry Crispin, old-time friend and industry guy who really likes the podcast, which may be us jumping the shark, who knows officially? We appreciate Jerry listening and giving us props on that, big shout-out to him.

Chad: Yep, and we've got the #ChadCheese list. I'm going to try to run through this fast because we've got a ton of people that are hashtagging us thanks to Joel whining and crying about it. First off, long-time listener, first-time caller Josh Acres, he was sucking up pretty hard to be able to try to get this shout-out, so you got it, Josh. There's your shout-out. Keep hashtagging, appreciate it, man. The Job Board Doctor, I swear, hashtags us more than anybody out there, love the Jeff Dickey-Chasins' Job Board Doctor.

Joel: Looking for another year full of hashtags from the Doctor. Love it.

Chad: The Contentologist, don't know who this guy is, but apparently he listens, so I appreciate it.

Joel: Sounds important, Contentologist.

Chad: Yeah, the Contentologist, right? Ed from Philly. Hey, Ed, I know you had a heart attack because I said Saquon, he wasn't going to make it in the NFL, but, dude, when you can't roll up more than 51 yards against IU it's really hard. He's no J.K. Dobbins. We know that, right? But, still, it's going to be hard for him in the NFL, my friend, but we still love you. Keep listening. Johnathan Rose-

Joel: Maybe when the Colts take him.

Chad: Yeah, okay, god. Don't say that, man. He definitely won't get any yards then. Johnathan Rose, appreciate it, man. He loved the naughty and nice list. Obviously Crowded loved it because they did pretty well. Nancy from Philly, she's back in there saying that she loves us, and keep tweeting, guys. We really appreciate all the hashtags. Keep them coming.

Joel: Shout-out to the gang at SHRM, who wrote an article that actually quoted our podcast and some stuff that we've said. I know Tony Lee and Mauer have commented on that, so we appreciate SHRM out there listening, shout-out to them.

Chad: Amen. Thanks Roy, and before we get out do you have anymore shout-outs before I talk a little TA Tech love here?

Joel: Give the TA Tech love.

Chad: Okay, TA Tech AI and machine learning conference is happening February 12th through the 13th in beautiful Scottsdale, Arizona. You can go to

. I'm going to say that again, to register. If you give two shits about AI and learning and you're in talent acquisition, so this is for talent acquisition professionals as well as recruitment vendors. If you're a tech company and you're in the recruitment space this is perfect for you guys. You should check it out,

Joel: If you're sick of the cold it's a nice place to be-

Chad: Goddamn straight, man.

Joel: ... that time of year, beautiful Scottsdale. Cool, man, and Dublin is creeping up on us, so if you're going to be in Dublin in March come out and say hi to us at the TA Tech meeting in Dublin.

Joel: March 12th through the 13th, I think, 11 through the 13th. Yeah, that's coming up on us.

Chad: Yeah, it's around Saint Patty's Day, that's all I got to say.

Joel: All right, man. You ready to get to the news?

Chad: Let's hit it.

Joel: First on the docket, one of your predictions in our last show was that Monster would rise again. Aside from some Instagram advertising that I've seen, they launched some mini ads this week that you caught wind of, which are, basically, what, 15 second ads?

Chad: Yeah, they're 15 second ads. They're pretty cool. I think I found three of them, and these look perfect for ... We're all ADD at this point, we have so many windows open, we have so much going on. They're quick 15 second ads. They're kind of cool, one foot out the door kind of thing.

Joel: Has a dude in like a corporate meeting and he's talking. They show him at the end, and he's got one foot out the door, and I think that's the message, like, "Got one foot out the door? Come to Monster and post your resume."

Chad: Yeah, and then there's a doctor who's doing the same thing. It's like the last thing you want is a doctor with one foot out the door. It's kind of cool.

Joel: Yes, we kind of ripped their high-priced purple monster Manhattan ad.

Chad: Which was bad.

Joel: I think we both kind of like this approach of sort of online, quick appetizer-sized advertisements that may start to get them into the mind scape of people, where I think they've been mostly invisible for the last 12 months at least.

Chad: Yeah, there's no question. I see these ads prefacing like most of the YouTube videos that are there, so you know how you get the quick ads that you can't get through, the shorter ads that you can't skip? I think this will be one of those shorter ads that you can't skip before you actually get into your YouTube experience.

Joel: Yep, and we've kind of gotten away from comedy in job board ads, where they've been really good in the past with the Career Builder monkeys. It's kind of good to see a little bit of comedy come back into the world with so much seriousness in politics and things elsewhere. We have an example of good advertising, good marketing, and I'm going to throw in an example of really bad marketing. I got a LinkedIn invite this week from Albert, perfectly normal name. Unfortunately, Albert's last name was The Frog. Albert The Frog is an animated frog that's purple. He represents the site Prefer Hired, which we've not talked about on the show, I don't think. They do referrals, and this is their cutesy, let's make a mascot profile page on LinkedIn for Albert The Frog, have him connect to people. I hate this kind of crap.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: I'm okay with Albert The Frog being on Twitter, maybe even Facebook, but LinkedIn is a professional, real person environment. If I connect to Albert The Frog he's going to reach out to other people. They're going to see that I'm connected to Albert The Frog. It's going to make him look better or me worse, or me better. I don't know how that's going to work, but I'm basically endorsing Albert The Frog, and I don't want to do that because it's not even a real person. I'm probably just going to get spammed with job postings and just garbage from Albert The Frog. Just have a company page, people. Let me follow your company. Let me get updates. Let me get content about the company. Don't have a mascot that's basically posing as an actual profile on LinkedIn.

Chad: Well, and that's the thing, though, right? It's funny now that you said that. I'm going to give a shout out to Jim Stroud and John Sumser who are connections to Albert The Frog, way to go, guys. Seriously, when they sent a message to you to connect, and then you responded, tell the listeners about that kind of back and forth because I think this was interesting.

Joel: I got, "Joel, would love to connect here on LinkedIn and keep the lines of communication open. Have a great day. Love, Albert." It didn't say love, I added that in. Then I said, "What the hell is this about?" I'm being nice what the language, and Albert says, "Hmm," and Albert is probably a 23 year old entry-level marketing person who thought this was a good idea and sold it to somebody higher-up. Okay, Albert says, "Hmm, didn't think the invite request would get a 'What the hell' or make you up set, Joel. Feel free to ignore. Just thought it might make sense to connect since we are both in the HR tech space, Albert."

Joel: Again, Albert is an animated thing. It's not a person, okay. Then I said, "Okay, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to be mean. I'm really curious, like, is this a marketing campaign. What's the goal?" Then Albert says, "This isn't a marketing campaign," bullshit, I'll add that in there. "I'm Albert, and I work at a HR tech startup that focuses on referral hiring. I just wanted to connect and grow my network. That's it, no games, just normal, 'Hey, I'd like to connect invite.'"

Chad: Bullshit.

Joel: I didn't reply back because I'm not connected to Albert. I'm done with Albert. After I talk about this on the show I'm done, but don't do this companies. This is stupid.

Chad: Yeah, so they literally told you that-

Joel: That it's not a marketing campaign.

Chad: It's not a marketing campaign, and that Albert The Frog is a real person. Now, there are videos of Albert The Frog, and this is a marketing ploy. There's no question that it's a marketing ploy, and I appreciate marketing ploys. I don't think it was some 23 year that's internal that did this. I think they actually paid an ad agency, and this is the bullshit that the ad agency came up with. At the end of the day, man, I think you're right. Now, anybody can use LinkedIn the way that they want. Use it the way that you want, but with all the fake shit that's out there today in social media, we talked about all the fake accounts on Twitter. There's just fake everywhere, right? Why would you want to actually include yourself and your company, tag your company into something that is fake and it's bullshit, and everybody can see it? This is not the time to be doing stupid shit like this.

Joel: I'm pretty sure if you alerted LinkedIn to this profile they would nix it because I'm pretty sure this type of thing isn't allowed.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: I'm not endorsing going and blocking Albert The Frog, but if you want to do it, hey, it's your prerogative. I'm done with Albert. Let's go to some real news, again, with Monster. Your prediction might be correct, they're doing stuff. They've partnered with TextRecruit, who we've talked about on the show. They got a three million dollar infusion of cash last year that we talked about, I do remember that. We've done a webinar with those guys for nexxt, so they know what they're talking about. Monster, as we know, their press page has been pretty much empty for the last year. Now they're starting to do stuff. What do you make of this partnership?

Chad: I think it's smart, there's no question because text recruiting, it's all the rage, and we've talked about that. Not just because nexxt does it, because it's smart, and that's why nexxt is doing it is because it's incredibly smart, but here's what I'm seeing, though. I'm seeing that on the product side for Monster they're doing something that they've never done before. They are pulling in top talent, so they're got Chris Cho, Nathan Brumby and Chase Wilson, who they actually pulled in on the product side.

Chad: These guys, I guarantee you, are whiteboarding the shit out of all the technology that's happening at Monster that they have available to them, just the portfolio-wise, much like we've been talking about Career Builder. Now this partnership, I think, is also another kind of inkling to those pretty much leaders in product being able to go out and be incredibly smart about, not just doing things ourselves and building everything ourselves, but partnering and trying to create more fluid technologies and cover gaps for their clients.

Joel: This sort of goes against Monster's historical sort of strategy. Their strategy in the past has been, "We'll just build it ourselves." For those that remember BeKnown, which was their social media play, sort of against BranchOut, which doesn't exist anymore, but that was hot at one point. They bought Trovix, they bought TalentBin, so as opposed to sort of white-labeling or partnering or sort of infusing this technology into theirs, they thought they could build it or do it themselves or just buy their way into the industry. To me this is sort of an interesting change of pace for Monster.

Joel: Instead of saying like, "Let's build or buy it," they're saying, "Let's partner and sort of integrate this technology into what we do," which is good because they realize, "Look, text recruiting and SMS communication is huge. We understand that. These guys do it way-better than we ever would, and we know that TextRecruit is really good with sort of integrating with companies. They do it with nexxt and some others. Let's just do the same so we have this product, this feature as part of the Monster portfolio without actually having to go out and buy and take the risk and commit the resources to doing it." I think this is smart. I think that we'll probably see more of this in the future as part of what Monster is doing, and we'll keep an eye on it for sure.

Chad: Yeah, and for all those companies out where who have not done any of this text recruiting whatsoever, quick shout-out to nexxt. Go to the website, click on the nexxt logo. You get 25% off your first campaign, so try it. It just makes sense, and Eric and the team over there at TextRecruit, man, those guys are killing it.

Joel: TextRecruit and discounts galore.

Chad: Everywhere.

Joel: Hitting the ground running in the new year. All right, let's take a quick break, and let's talk about Indeed and Google. What do you think?

Chad: Cool.

Joel: Be right back.

Chad: I love it.

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Chad: Yeah, in 2017 diversity was pretty big, right? I don't see that changing for 2018, so if you guys need a partner for diversity outreach, and definitely compliance for the recording and the reporting piece of it, reach out to America's Job Exchange. Again, you can go to, click on the logo and get hooked up. For 2018 and beyond diversity is going to be key.

Joel: In an election year there's going to be a lot of talk about all this stuff, I'm sure, even more so than last year.

Chad: Yep, you ain't kidding. You're not kidding, man.

Joel: You got wind of an Indeed letter. Tell us about that.

Chad: Yeah, so, actually, we had somebody send us an Indeed letter. You're going to love this. Listen, I'm going to kind of chunk it up a little bit. This is from an Indeed to one of their clients, which is actually a job board. We received many of these. It was pretty much just a templated letter, but anyway it says, "As our valued job board client it's important that you are aware of all the upcoming changes to Indeed's inclusion guidelines," big key there, inclusion guidelines, "Our organization is continuously adapting to ensure the best overall experience for the job seekers. We strive for an experience that delivers you and your clients more and higher-quality applicants." Yeah, that's exactly what we want.

Chad: Now, the second paragraph is where it starts to get a little tricky, "In order to best-accommodate a seamless job seeker experience we have made the decision to limit our job search results to only display unique job content. As a result," here's where it comes, "any duplicate jobs or companies from your job board will be removed effective January 8th." That's in two days, guys. Duplicate content can be defined as any jobs that, pretty much, you have on your job board site that we're getting from one of our applicant tracking system customers over here. What's happening, guess what? Job boards are getting the squeeze, and the Trojan horse is in full effect. Can you explain to our listeners what the Indeed Trojan horse is?

Joel: Trojan horse is a friendly, on the surface, gift that turns out to be your demise. Back when Indeed launched, '06, job boards loved them, and they loved them for about three to four years when the traffic flowed freely, no cost to job boards. Job boards were most of the content on Indeed. Little by little Indeed started integrating direct employer content, going right to the ATS to get that content on there, which, honestly, as a job seeker it makes more sense. They're probably getting a lot of spam from job boards, a lot of duplicate content. We know that ATS's and companies aren't doing that. From a user's perspective it makes perfect sense. I don't think this would be a surprise to job boards who, I think, have seen their content slowly disappear from Indeed over the years.

Joel: I think what's interesting is we talk about Google for Jobs quite a bit, and we talked about Google for Jobs in that how they treat duplicate content is they tell a user, "Hey, this job is on Glass Door. It's on Monster. It's on Career Builder. It's on Snag A Job. You can decide which way you want to apply to this job. Do you want to go to Career Builder and do it there? Do you want to use your Snag A Job account?" Google uses a very inclusionary strategy to say, "Look, this job is everywhere. Here's here it is. You, the customer, can decide where you want to apply."

Joel: Indeed is basically saying, "We're going to decide where the original content is or where it's from, and that's going to be what we're going to put on there. We're not going to put everyone that has this job on their site," which are two very different strategies, and we'll see which one plays out. I think we both kind of like the inclusionary model. The walled garden of Indeed continues to grow. In fact, they're buying more real estate in Austin, apparently, so this wall is getting even higher, kudos to them. That seemed like a smart analogy. Yeah, these are two very different strategies, and we see how it plays out.

Chad: Let's focus on Indeed first, so they're biting the hand that used to feed them. They only dollar that they received, really, were from these vendors. They weren't receiving dollars from direct employers at all, so they're biting the hand.

Joel: I'm pretty sure they still take money from job boards.

Chad: Yeah, it's very limited and comparatively, though, I think they really flipped that model. They're actually biting the hand that built the house they live in, period. The dollars that built the house that they live in today were from vendors, the vendor dollars. As we start to see the worm turn, they're going to piss-off, I believe, a bunch of customers, clients, that they have today that they're not going to have tomorrow. When they need them, desperately need them, guess who's not going to be there? Indeed, once again, is the bad guy, and it's only January 6th. They're already on the naughty list for goodness sakes.

Joel: In fairness, I don't think they really care.

Chad: No, they don't.

Joel: They're like, "Screw Google. You guys want to side with Google. We're Indeed. We're the world's 'number one' job site. We don't need you guys, so fuck-off."

Chad: There's no question. The thing is they're screwing themselves on so many different levels. First and foremost, it's this line of revenue, and then they rose prices 35% plus for companies and staffing firms and so and so forth. There are all these different angles that they're really screwing themselves, and then with all this bullshit happening they're making it easier for companies like Monster, Career Builder, Zip Recruiter and nexxt to steal market share. On the vendor side of the house Indeed is pretty much serving up dollars on a silver platter, "Hey, we don't want this money anymore, guys, you have it."

Chad: Again, I really think that they're looking at their EBIDTA of today, the dollars that they made the last quarter, maybe the quarter before, and they're not looking at the horizon because they're doing so many things to constrain the prospect of revenue growth as opposed to being more inclusionary. Back to Google, Google and Google for Jobs, the actual real estate that Indeed used to pretty much own, the organic real estate for job search is now taken up by Google for Jobs, and Google is going through a redistribution of traffic wealth. See what I did there?

Joel: I like that.

Chad: They're going through the redistribution piece where they're pushing more traffic to all these different job sites who were not seeing that traffic before because it was getting gobbled up by Indeed organic. All of these ifs are not in Indeed's favor.

Joel: This is fort Indeed, they're fortifying their position, and that's their strategy. We'll see what happens.

Chad: Good luck.

Joel: Let's get onto our next item. They've been doing this for a while, but we're haven't talked about it. On Google for Jobs when you search for a job, the company, Google is pulling employee review data from places like Glass Door and Kununu, and, ironically, Indeed. Indeed is okay with them getting their review data but not their job data. Indeed is playing with Google in this capacity. This makes branding your reviews much more important because the job seeker who used to know only about Glass Door thanks to Google will also know about Comparably and Kununu and whoever else on the review side of the table wants to play with Google and put these reviews on the site. If you care about your brand, you care about reviews it's going to get more and more sort of convoluted because Google is making these reviews accessible on Google. You don't have to really search that hard to find more and more reviews on your company.

Chad: Not just accessible, this is a weighting factor. They're weighting, I guarantee you. You know how Google is. They take in information and they weight the actual results on the information that they're taking in. Therefore, if you're getting shitty reviews and you don't know about it you're screwed, man. The traffic that you could prospectively receive from Google through Google for Jobs could go away entirely because your reviews suck, which is one of the reasons why, quick plug for Ratedly, if you don't have Ratedly you don't understand that you could be firebombed. Your brand could be firebombed in a heartbeat.

Joel: If you're an employer who has someone check Glass Door, that's great, although, I think that's a pain in the ass, and you shouldn't have to manually do that. Now you've just added at least five to 10 new sites on your list because Google is including that data in their job search pages. Thanks for the plug, I appreciate that and, yes, I do think we provide a valuable service. I think it's only going to be more difficult to monitor these reviews on there. Also, to your point, it's becoming more than just a branding strategy. It's becoming a recruiting strategy. We already know data out of ISENS that says, "Hey, look, a third of people don't apply because of bad reviews. Millennials, half of them won't apply to job or take a job because of bad reviews."

Joel: It's more than just a branding play and making yourself feel like an employer of choice. It's actually impacting your recruiting. To what Chad said, look, if someone searches on Google for Jobs, they see a job that they like, but then, oh no, all the reviews are like one and two and three stars, well, I'm not even going to apply to that job. It definitely impacts you on more levels than just branding, and thanks to Google it's even that much more important.

Chad: Good point.

Joel: Recruitsy, aside from the name-

Chad: What?

Joel: I'm not sure how I feel about the name. Recruitsy is a startup. I guess the way that I would describe it is like Glass Door for recruiters. The mission of the site is John Doe recruiter hires John X or Jane Doe recruiter to get them a job. Then John Doe can write a review similar to how he would a company about his experience with Jane Doe the recruiter. Then recruiters get ranked and ratings and reviews, and that this will be a way that if you're looking to hire a head hunter in a local market you can look at this site and see who has the best reviews and hire that recruiter to find you a job. Thoughts?

Chad: First off, recruit and cutesy, two words that they pushed together to create Recruitsy. That is ridiculous, first off. Second, yeah, I just don't think that this is a model that is going to go anywhere. If we know anything we know job seekers are always pissed-off at companies and recruiters because they're not meeting the job seeker's expectations. The job seeker's expectations are always through the roof, "Why aren't they contacting me? Why aren't they telling me exactly what's happening here and here and here?"

Chad: Obviously, there should be systems that do that, but that's an entirely different story. It all falls back on the recruiter, and if that recruiter's name is on an actual job posting as a contact or on the requisition where a job seeker can see it or find it, man, they are really going to be screwed. I think this is just going to be a constant firebomb just happening all the time with seekers who are pissed-off. Job seekers have to find the stupid site in the first place. I just don't see any of this happening.

Joel: This is a very challenged business, and it's a chicken and egg situation, right? We talk about this in the job board space. You got to have jobs, you got to have companies, or you got to have jobs, you got to have candidates. First of all, it's a fairly limited number of people who use head hunters, it's tech people, it's healthcare. It's not like a ton of people are using it. You're in a fairly limited market as it is. I don't see people en masse leaving reviews for a recruiter, aside from like, "Hey, they got me the job. They're fun to work with, awesome." If they didn't get you the job, then they suck, right? Which, frankly, is more on you than on them if they get you the interview.

Joel: Anyway, I don't see en masse people leaving reviews for recruiters. I don't know what the turnover is recruiters. I think it's sort of high. A lot of people get into recruiting, and it sucks, and it's not what they thought, and then they move on. You have a lot of churn in this business, whereas the restaurant on the corner has been there for 20 years. It's still going to be there after this year. Recruiting is a little bit different, and these are people that we're talking about, so definitely, definitely challenged.

Joel: Unless you have a ton of money to market it they're going to have to look at regional or local first, grow it locally, and then go to different markets in that region, but it's a cute idea. We wanted to talk about it because we have a lot of recruiters out there that listen. I believe is the URL. They don't have, apparently someone has that, or it's not available. If you want to see if you have reviews check it out, or at least keep your eye on it, but for the most part I think Chad and I both agree this is a very challenged business. They have an uphill battle for sure.

Chad: This would go on the pile of steaming healthy heap of garbage, I believe.

Joel: Wow. You're going to put it out of its misery, huh?

Chad: Yeah, I don't think there's any chance in hell this thing is going to go anywhere.

Joel: All right. Full disclosure, the dude who founded it is a Purdue guy, he's a Hoosier guy, which, we're both in Indiana, so it's nothing personal. He's a nice guy, but, yeah, the business is challenged. We'll see how it goes.

Chad: Yeah, at best.

Joel: All right, man. Anything else to add before we get out of here?

Chad: One more thing. For everybody that's out there, remember to subscribe to Chad and Cheese. You can always come back and forth to the website Pick your favorite podcast listening app, and there's ton out there, iTunes, SoundCloud Google Play, CastBox, Stitcher, Podcast, Double Pod, Beyond Pod, I can go on forever. Pick your favorite podcast app, and go ahead and just subscribe to Chad and Cheese. We're pretty much on all of them, and if we're not let us know, and I'll get us hooked up to it. Yeah, rate us and tell us that you love us, hint, hint.

Joel: Or hate us.. If you're taking the time to comment, we're already getting way too much of your time by you listening to us, but for you give us your time to leave a review, we don't care if it's good or bad, we'll get better for it, and we appreciate the people that are out there. It's hard to speak into a microphone every week without people in the audience that we see, so the feedback is sort of our oxygen, it keeps is going. Leave a review, subscribe, and keep tuning in. We out.

Chad: We out.

Announcer: This has been the Chad and Cheese podcast. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single show, and check out our sponsors because they make it all possible. For more visit, oh, and you're welcome.

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