Dollar bills continue to flow into HR and recruiting tech companies and people are still launching job boards..?? Wait.. What? Yeah, you heard that right. Job boards.
The boys break down all the latest news.
- Hire-Maturity launches?? Doesn't this feel like Eons 2.0?
- Joel hates on Dynamic Signal after getting $36.5 million
- And a Halloween beat down that ended badly ... very badly.
Announcer: Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinions and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad & Cheese Podcast.
Joel: Greetings and salutations homeboys and homegirls. Welcome to Chad & Cheese, HR's most dangerous podcast. I'm Joel Cheesman, also known as the Barry White of HR.
Chad: And that is so much shit. And I'm Chad Sowash.
Joel: On this week's show, old people need jobs, .jobs, gets jobs and a lot of former WorkHere employees are looking for jobs. Stay tuned. Chad and I might need new jobs by the time this one's over.
Announcer: Google, Lever, Entelo, Monster, Jibe. What do these companies and hundreds of others have in common? They are use Sovren Technologies. Some use our software to help people find the perfect job, while others use our technology to help companies find the perfect candidate. Sovren has been the global leader in recruitment intelligence software since 1996, and we can help improve your hiring process too.
Announcer: We'd love to help you make a perfect match. Visit sovren.com, S-O-V-R-E-N.com for a free demo.
Chad: We'd love to help you make the perfect match.
Joel: Her voice is way too smooth for the saltiness that we're feeling today. It's going to get ugly I think.
Chad: It's going to get ugly. It's going to get ugly. Well, let's start with the ugliness. Something that wasn't ugly was Jeff Tennery from Moonlighting.com.
Joel: I have to say, they did the promotion of the show the right way. If every company that we interview gave us that much love, we'd have the highest rated podcast on iTunes.
Chad: He also edumacated you and I on a blockchain, cryptocurrency and the Moonbit. What the hell a Moonbit was until Jeff talked to us.
Joel: Plus educating us is usually like animated gifs and emoticons, but other than that ...
Joel: Apparently, we had a bit of good news. We're going to see Adam in Dublin next month.
Chad: We are. We are. Which means I told him I would buy him his first Beamish since he said that is the beer to drink when you're when you're in Ireland. Definitely, there's no question, you got to drink Guinness.
Joel: Got to.
Chad: But he said Beamish ... He actually, said this is his quote, "Beamish is bad ass."
Joel: It was. You and I enjoy a bad ass beer like no other boys I know, and Beamish will be on the menu for sure.
Chad: That's right. So, if you haven't heard of the Firing Squad podcast. Adam's with Candidate.ID, he knocked it out of the park. Good job for him. Check it out on chadcheese.com.
Joel: Well, I'm not sure he hit it out of the park with my review, but yes, he did well, I appreciated the time. I'm going to give a shout out to the Job Board Doctor who gets a shout out every week. He commits to the show, so he deserves it. For his quote that I am the, quote, 'Barry White of a HR'. Yeah, baby. Thank you.
Chad: Dude, you not have Barry White level of game. That's all there is to it.
Joel: I'm thinking more Marvin Gaye, but I'll take Barry White.
Chad: I'm thinking more Tweety The Bird. Listen, we've got something coming up March 6th. It is the Chad And Cheese webinar series. What is that, Joel? What is a Chad And Cheese webinar, first off?
Joel: Our webinars are are unconventional to say the least. We're on screen, we're interactive, we're peppering our guests with questions, we're challenging them on issues. This is not just a show me a PowerPoint and tell me what I should think. This is some legit battle bot in the octagon. What other cliché can I make up? Mad Max: Thunderdome webinar experience. So, you need to head on over to chadcheese.com and sign up because you'll be sorry if you don't.
Chad: That's right. It's on the growth of the gig economy, starring Lori McInerney from Shiftgig, Ryan Christoi from KRT Marketing. Yeah, it's definitely not going to be a run of the mill, that's not how we do shit. You know that or you wouldn't be listening to this goddamn podcast. Go to chadcheese.com, click on the little banner, register your ass, be there and have a good time.
Joel: Awesome. LinkedIn folks continue to rob us, apparently. I don't know why but we appreciate them.
Chad: Yeah. I love the LinkedIn folks and also love from others on LinkedIn, Elena Valentine, Matt Disher, Brian Howard, Mark Feffer, Ed Rogers. There's a bunch of people that are out there giving us love on LinkedIn. So, thanks guys, we really appreciate that.
Joel: Yes. And no one gave us duplicate content emails this week, so we appreciate that. Way to go outside the box everybody. Give us separate messages.
Chad: Very nice. Also, shout out to Josh over at Randstad. Thanks for listening dude. And no, there will not be a grilled cheese Sowash, just so you know. Not cool dude, not cool.
Joel: I'm not sure what a grilled cheese Sowash is.
Chad: It was a very bad joke, Josh. A very bad joke.
Joel: Yeah, it was.
Joel: That's a double boo. You're getting some crickets on that one. That's all. Got any shout outs left for you?
Chad: Got the Philly crew. Ed Joel, Joey Stubs, Bridget, Michelle, Julie and never forgetting Nancy. And then the Boston Crew; Kia, Tracy, Colin, Jayman, Bill, Gerry and all the hardened lessers over in Beantown. John, Kyle, we got all these people that are freaking giving a shout out. Last but not least, I actually had to create a page because we are going to all these damn places, conferences and meetings and stuff and people for some reason want to meet us. So, if you to to chadcheese.com, there's a little banner that says, "Come meet us, the Chad And Cheese." You click on it and you can see all the different places that we're going.
Chad: Obviously, you'll hear about it, but definitely you should go to a TATechEurope in Dublin, Ireland. The discount code is right there on the website. We also have SHRM Talent coming up up in Vegas.
Joel: Dude, how weird that SHRM, like the ivory tower SHRMites are letting us to their show and break shit? It's awesome. Way to go SHRM.
Chad: And I have to give big props to the people at SHRM because they know we're going to break shit. It's kind of like when you're that new parent and you go around and you're baby proofing the house. That's exactly what they're going to try to do at SHRM Talent in Vegas, but we're still going to break shit, guys, I'm sorry.
Joel: They think we read contracts or something. I don't know what the hell that's about. All right. You're ready to get to the show?
Joel: $100 million, dude, that was so much money thrown around this week, none of it came to us. But lead story, Vettery got $100 million, rumored get 100, I don't think they actually published that number, but Adecco backed up the Brinks truck for, I don't know, not the most exciting company in the world, but good for them. What's your take on this $100 million investment?
Chad: It's kind of weird because their focus, it doesn't seem scalable, first and foremost. On the website, it says, "Our team will help you polish your profile, nail your interview and be by your side all the way till your new job." That doesn't seem scalable. How many fucking people do you have working at that company that can obviously service all of these job seekers and curate lists of talent for companies at the same time? It doesn't seem very intuitive. It doesn't seem very scalable.
Chad: But then I went into one of their job descriptions as I was researching it, and in the job description, not on the website but in the job descriptions, it talks about leveraging machine learning, AI, real time data. So there's something that's happening behind the scenes that they just don't want people to know about or something. Because you can't find it anywhere other than digging really deep into some of the information on the site.
Joel: You know what else doesn't scale very well?
Chad: What's that?
Joel: Paying job seekers $1,000, I guess it's now $500. It used to be $1,000, which proves that it's not scalable. They've lowered it, they've cut it in half since they launched back in the day. But yeah, paying job seekers a lot of money is usually hard to scale, so good luck with that one as well. I think they probably stopped at the market of high tech. Accounting is not in there, it's like high tech-
Chad: IT, finance and sales.
Joel: Finance and sales. Yeah. Once you get to burger flippers and janitorial staff, you're probably not dishing out $500 per player. Now, this is not just for registering but you actually av to get hired and be on the job for 90 days, but paying job seekers lot of money usually doesn't end very well.
Chad: That's a gimmick, and that's a gimmick to be able to pull, obviously seekers in, and as you said, they started out at $1,000. It might have been more than that at one time, but they started out like at a $1,000 and they've been cutting that down. It's a gimmick and that's how you get these things roaring and it's going to go away. There's no question. How do you hit critical mass? That's not scalable, but also I think human interaction piece is not scalable, so they're going to have to do something about that as well, especially with a company like Adecco.
Joel: That's a big company. Yeah, they might just swallow them up and forget they bought them. I wrote about these guys are about two years ago and the bonus, the signing bonus was a grand. And they had a referral program that if you refer someone, you get you get 1500. I don't think the referrals is still there. They charge a one time fee of 15% of new hires' based salary and they have to be on the job for 90 days or you get 100% of your money back.
Chad: Just from a business owner standpoint, I don't see it progressing and maturing in the same way. There is no way in hell they can scale.
Joel: How many startups come out and say, "We're going to put recruiting out of business," and for some reason never do? It's kind of weird that way, but they do get PR.
Chad: They do, and they get bought, apparently.
Joel: Let's start a business where we put recruiting out of business, we have AI, automation, block chain, and we launch ICO and we'll all get rich.
Chad: We'll call it the Cheese Bit. (cricket sound effect)
Joel: U had to wait for it but you knew you were getting the crickets. Let's move on to something about; higher maturity.
Chad: Yeah. Let's just talk about companies that are not going to get a $100 million. Remember Jeff Taylor the 50 plus social network back in the day after he left Monster. Remember that?
Joel: I do.
Chad: Yawn. He said Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, Jane Seymour. Everything was lining up. The problem was that it wasn't adopted, and it really turned into literally a list of obituaries. It turned into a graveyard. And they eventually shut the site down, so Eons doesn't exist anymore. But now, in the advent of 50 plus dating sites and those types of things, I guess ... Peter, over at ... he used to be CEO at Recruit Military, he thought that this might be a good idea, a good niche.
Chad: But the funny part about this is, it's not just being a website, it's about having job fairs and feeding a website in to this demographic. So, you tell me, how do you think, we're not 50 yet but how many job fairs have you gone to in the last 10 years, first and foremost, and do you see yourself doing that in the future?
Joel: No. And not many, in that order.
Chad: To me, this just doesn't make any sense. It's not focused on the actual target demographic itself. It just sounds like he kind of like the model of Recruit Military, which is a very heavily event-focused organization, and it feeds in to a job board. But you can't do that with everything, Peter. So, good luck buddy, but I don't think there's any way in hell that you're getting out of this one.
Joel: First before I before I spout off here, if you have time go to YouTube and search Eons' commercial. It's E-O-N-S. It's hilarious. I assume it's still up there. The one thing that's funny about old people is they don't want to admit that they're old. And the reason that Eons failed was because if I join an old people's social network, I'm basically admitting that I am old. And I don't want to do that. So, I'm going to go to Facebook or MySpace at the time was probably the number one social network online, but there was very little need for that.
Joel: Dating is a lot different because I'm guessing most people are realistic and think, "I'm only going to date people that are within like 10 years of my own age." Being on tinder if I'm 69 years old is probably not a real reasonable strategy. Maybe it is, I don't know. But yeah, for jobs, why would I not be on Indeed, ZipRecruiter, Jobs2Careers, Google, etc.
Chad: Remember, AARP put out their own goddamn job board. It's targeted to a base of people who they used to hurt. That makes fucking sense. This doesn't make any sense.
Joel: And by the way, there's a lot of stuff in ... you know diversity better than I do, but apparently people aren't hiring old people, they're hiring young people. So posting on old people sites, probably not something a lot of companies are going to do, whether they'd admit to it or not. If you want to get a job, go to where everyone goes, not just where like a certain age, demographic goes, particularly old folks.
Joel: Your favorite company here in Indianapolis-
Chad: Canvas? goCanvas.io?
Joel: Not Canvas, not ... There's another one, shoot, I'll think about it. No, not them, not direct employers, not, Monster you sort of hear.
Chad: Next is here.
Joel: Not Next. Well, next might be your favorite. WorkHere who you love, know and love. WorkHere, I'll refresh our listeners' memory before you throw them in to the sausage grinder. They initially launched a sort of a small business, they wanted to go to like your local bar, restaurant, laundromat, etc, have them put a sticker on their window similar to Yelp and have people download the app on their Android or iPhone, and then clicked that they wanted to work there, work here or work there, and then the business could then download the app themselves and they could connect.
Joel: If this is getting boring, you're not alone. They they connect with the job seekers and then you get a job. It turns out that that model doesn't really work very well. In November of '17, they laid off their sales team, which sounds ominous but it was I guess two people, and they have basically pivoted to having like large enterprise companies that have like global to at least national needs and then they have super targeted advertising messages. People download the app, and then, this is where you're going to go off.
Joel: On the scale thing is, they actually have what's called a career coach, and these career coaches then contact the job seeker based on what the company needs. They're going to try like fix people up, match make, and companies are going to pay on a per applicant basis.
Chad: Oh God. Hit the cricket sound effect, would you please? Jesus.
Joel: Not the big guns? How about your favorite? I'll let you go off on them and I'll defend them probably.
Chad: I'm just not going to waste my time, really. There are three things. We're in the age of productivity, of efficiency, of AI, machine learning and those types of things. Three things. It's counter intuitive, it's not scalable, and it's fucking stupid. Take a look at companies like Jobalign and Talentify. These are high volume tapes of companies who can really focus on scale and being able to help companies like WorkHere is trying to help, but but doing it in a totally different and automated manner.
Chad: It just makes a hell of a lot more sense. And what they're trying to do, again, it's almost like they're regressing to trying to go back in to the late 1990s for goodness sakes. So, it just doesn't make sense at all.
Joel: The precipice of this was the fact that people would download the app and register, and just sort of assume that they would get a job. Companies would join this thing and just assume they would get mashed with candidates, whereas with employers, there's a lot more action going on with like resumes being submitted on whatever job sites they are on, etc. They needed a way to spur job seekers to actually move, to actually like put on a tie and go into Starbucks or wherever and ask for the manager, so these coaches are there to make that happen.
Joel: Now, I agree with you that ... There's two sort of schools of thought here, there is automation and we're going to talk with chat bots and that's what's going to happen, or AI is going to let go through tons of profiles online, everywhere and then like engage people in that manner and then bring people to you. I tend to agree with you that that's where the world's going, but if you sit down with the WorkHere guys, they're convinced that the human touch, the people talking to other people is where it's at, and they can pay someone a very minimal amount of money and get that application there for 200 bucks a pop, and make money from that. So good luck to them. We'll see how it works out.
Joel: Yeah. Let's take a break, shall we? I think we both deserve a little break.
Chad: I need a beer.
Joel: Yeah. It is four o'clock on Friday, it's five o'clock somewhere too. Let's hear from AJE really quick because we love them and we want them to get some exposure. We'll be right back.
Announcer 2: America's Job Exchange is celebrating our 10th year as an industry leader in diversity recruitment an OFCCP compliance. We've been helping our thousand plus customer comply with OFCCP regulations that directly support positive and effective diversity recruitment, designed to attract and convert veterans, individuals with disabilities, women and minorities, and empower employers to pursue and track active outrage with their local community based organizations.
Announcer 2: Want to learn more, call us at 866-926-6284 or visit us at www.americasjobexchange.com.
Joel: The show just gets worse from here, but let's do this. More money is getting thrown around, I swear to God, like Dynamic Signal, who you love. I am not so much, and StatusToday, which one do you want to talk about first?
Chad: Let's go with Dynamic Signal since I love it.
Joel: All right. Tell us why you love it. Tell us what they do and then why you love it.
Chad: It's one of those things where we need to meet and we need to engage individuals, employees, job seekers, where they are at. If they're using Facebook, if they're using texting, any way that they want to engage, even if they're using the phone. We need to be able to engage them that way. Dynamic Signal is pretty cool because it pulls all of those together in one app. Let's say, for instance, I'm a manager and I want to be able to disseminate information into a large team scenario, or I'm a CEO or something like that, and want to disseminate that information out.
Chad: It's not just all coming over in intranet, or in email, or what have you, and actually is fed down through the messaging pipeline that is pretty much determined by me, the employee, and what they're seeing is, or what the research that they have shown is that, you have 77% higher productivity when employees are engaged and are educated on what's going on. So I think as we take a look at Slack and the evaluation that Slack has, Facebook Messenger, Text, all these different platforms, it's going to be really hard for companies to get their hands around, how do I communicate with them after they're hired and how do I help from a retention or productivity standpoint, being able to actually pull all that together in this one app, I think is pretty genius.
Joel: Okay, Genius, it's an engagement app, it's people chatting with each other and taking polls and getting data around that. It's a nice business maybe, is it genius? Probably not. That would probably StatusToday, although that's scary. We'll get to them in a second. The thing that confuses me ... You have a lot of companies getting money in this space, you mentioned Slack, Facebook has a product now, Google for Hire. They all probably have some sort of messaging that you may all be able to download as an app, that would probably be kick ass.
Joel: You got Yammer, who people forget about, was the original sort of Twitter for the workplace that was bought by Microsoft, which to me that's a huge drop by Microsoft, that they would let Yammer just get taken over by Slack. That's neither here nor there. It's a nice little business, but are you going to choose it over those other options? I don't know. Is anyone going to buy these guys?
Chad: That's just isn't choosing over the options, that's just being able to pull those options all together into one platform, that's the beautiful part. You don't have to go out and compete against Facebook, you don't have to compete against Slack, what you're doing is, you're providing an overall kind of an umbrella to be able to have a messaging system, to use all of those. And if you like Facebook Messenger, which I know you do, and I like Text, we can receive the same type of information, polls and all those other types of whatever they're throwing out to their employees, the way that we want to get them.
Chad: So I think it's not competing against them, it's wrapping them all up into one and making it very simple for a company to be able to get it done.
Joel: I don't know dude, I guess, that doesn't come out very clearly on their website as far as what they do. To me, it looks like it's like Slack with a little bit of different bells and whistles. Like I'm not seeing anything on the site that says, "Connect your email, texting, yada, yada, yada," on the site. You can share like articles, videos and shit like that but whatever." All right, sexy stuff. Go check out Dynamic Signal, everybody.
Chad: Watch some YouTube videos [crosstalk 00:25:18]
Joel: Chad says it's brilliant. StatusToday.
Chad: That's scary.
Joel: That's scary as hell.
Chad: On the website it says, "Understand your employees, the use of data to produce insights." So you think, "Okay, that's sounds pretty cool." Well, this is how the company started. StatusToday originally set up to use AI for cyber security, specifically by analyzing a company's internal online communications and network activity. That's how the company started. They are a monitoring, they are a big brother system. And now what they're doing, which is launched in beta, the middle of last year, they've got a more comprehensive piece that is focused around employee insights to be able to focus on employee activity, rogue employees, human lapses in security, and those types of things.
Chad: Much like we've seen with Amazon putting wristband monitors on employees and some people getting microchips. This is pretty creepy, right?
Joel: Yeah. You essentially plug them into your Office 365 or your G Suite, and they monitor everything about your employees. They should have called this company 1984 basically, because it's so effed up. And I am so glad that I don't work for somebody because I would be fired immediately with the stupid stuff I do in the workplace. But to me, it should have been StatusToday that got 36 million and not Dynamic Signal, instead of 3.9 million like, I think.
Chad: This is feed funding. This is feed funding. I think there is an opportunity for them to get a lot, tons more cash. I think you're overlooking just the simplicity of Dynamic Signal, that's okay.
Joel: I feel a Firing Squad with StatusToday coming.
Chad: Just yesterday, Dynamic Signal, both of them, we need both of them.
Joel: I don't know. Well, maybe, but StatusToday, I usually like doing Firing Squads that I would actually like listening to, and Dynamic Signal does not get me excited but StatusToday could be pretty interesting.
Chad: Yeah. It's really creepy and I can't imagine the type of information that we would get out of them, it would be... I think it would almost be like listening to a politician.
Joel: Yeah. Which is not good for anybody but we're rumbling. Let's move on. .Jobs, can you believe were talking about .jobs, launching back in 07 or 08. You and I are close to them, we both know them and less people have moved on, but it was a domain, the goal was companies by IBM.jobs, Boeing.jobs etc.. And then job seekers have a easy place, quote unquote, 'to go to' when they need to look for jobs.
Joel: That didn't quite work out the way they wanted, so they partnered with direct employers, who launched, you know better than I do, like millions of domains, just totally polluted the internet because the internet is such a clean happy place to me, which apparently still isn't working very well. They recently launched find.jobs, which is touting the Google API, which is funny because-
Chad: Well, before we ... Don't go too far yet. I think we have to talk a little bit about what this whole .jobs things is about. We know .com, .jobs is just the top-level domain. A company owns it, Employ Media out of Cleveland and they've been doing everything they possibly can to try to leverage this top-level domain, differently than all the other ones, instead of just breaking up and selling off the different domains. What they did was, they entrusted about 40,000 different .jobs domains to another organization to be able to build search technology underneath it.
Chad: To just give you an idea, if you go to today engineer.jobs or Boston.jobs or Bostonengineer.jobs, you're going to see job search on those sites. And there all specific to what you typed in. If it's engineer, obviously you're just going to find engineering jobs.
Joel: Currently powered by direct employers.
Chad: Some people loved it and a lot of people hated it, enough to sue us when we put it up. But the basic strategy was fairly simple, it was the flank Indeed, you really run an experiment to see if Google would trust 40,000 different domains that were relevant and they were .jobs domains, and to see if we could kill Indeed SEO . That's really what it was, because Indeed was killing it, on the SEO side of the house. 40,000 domains with jobs search underneath it versus one domain with Indeed, and obviously we know the answer to that. So Indeed won, and they did more than win.
Chad: The funny part is, we see Google For Jobs is coming out now, which is totally crippling Indeed. I don't want to say crippling Indeed, it's hurting them, it's hampering their ability to actually drive free job seekers back to Indeed. That in itself also hurts anybody who's trying to have an SEO play. Again, the whole .jobs 40,000 domains that they probably have a few thousand domains now, they probably don't have 40,000 anymore. It's irrelevant now, it is a failed experiment and now, with the advent of find.jobs, which is from the makers of the .jobs top-level domain, Employ Media, they launched just a single website that is powered by, as you'd said, the Google discovery jobs API, XPL doses, whatever they call it.
Chad: And that's just signaling, once again, their experiment is dead and SEO for jobs really at the end of the day, it doesn't work anymore. My great my question to you is, why the hell start up a new job board, just a single job board in the first place?
Joel: I don't have a good answer for you. In their case, they have this license for this domain, they don't have to do something with it, but they paid money, I assume they're still paying money to have the license.
Chad: Sell the domains.
Joel: Well, if nobody is buying the domains and the initial experiment ... Well, that's the thing, people bought the domains for potential SEO purposes, so if SEO is like a really tough game right now, then what's the benefit of that as opposed to like .io, I was kidding, but it doesn't really matter. In their case, if no one's buying the domains, if no one's going to the job search sites that they currently have all over the internet, they are not making money there, they've got to look like, "Okay, well, how do we make money?"
Joel: And it's like, "Well, let's just have one central domain, let's pull in Jobs2Careers, or Zip Recruiter, or where ever they're getting their jobs and at least we'll get paid on the clicks, the applicants that we're sending, at least we're getting some money for it. I don't think the direct employers experiment, outside of a few banner ads, was all that beneficial to anybody. In their case, they're starting a job board because they're sort of out of options and they're still paying money and trying to make this thing work.
Joel: Now, in the case of our buddies at Hire-Maturity, to me that's a total waste of money and time. Like just a total throw money in a garbage bin and put gas on it and throw it on fire because that's what you're doing. To answer your question, there is really no good reason unless you are in health care or tech, maybe sales, that you would ever have a new launching of a job board.
Chad: But now a general job board.
Joel: No. And hiring old people is not niche enough. I'm sorry.
Chad: Yeah, we've gone past that. Here is the last question. We're talking about and this is one of the things that I am trying to drive in to companies' heads today, is that they're looking to buy new domains for maybe job sites, or career sites, or trying to just do something special because they think it's cool. You're an SEO guy, and we just talked about how SEO pretty much is dead when it comes for jobs. What's the worth of going out and buying a brand spanking new domain versus anchoring onto your corporate domain, that's probably more than likely a dot com, that has so much trust in history. Would you do that yourself?
Joel: No. Especially if you're these big companies that are doing this and your Boeing or Hewlett Packard, or whoever. We're talking about domains that have been 20 plus years online, the trust, just the power of that domain to go and start a new one is just really stupid, just throw a sub folder on that and be boeing.com/jobs, that's going to be highly more beneficial than Boeing.jobs.
Chad: Which means you're going to rank better on non-jobs content, career content, other content that might be relevant, so you still might not rank incredibly high on the job side the house because the Google for jobs is going to take a lot of that above the fold organic.
Joel: The thing is .com, .io, .net, none of that probably plays very much impact in to where you land on search results. Search results are going to be based on the age of the domain, the links that are coming in, the quality of those links, the people going to the site from search engines, how long do they stay on the site, do they bounce back to Google. What kind of social signals are we seeing on that site. You're just way better off leveraging an asset that's been around forever and already has tons of links, and tons of trust, and tons of brand awareness, than you are just starting anything new or whether it's .jobs or .net or dot whatever.