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2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

Zip Swings, TikTok Lands & Aussies Stink

This episode is all over the place.

- ZipRecruiter's CEO takes a big AI swing at Google

- Indeed giving Hire by Google a sloppy kiss

- Facebook's Workplace gets chatty

- TikTok finally landed on our radar

- Glassdoor says "Oui"

- Google plays the "Optics wage game"

- BrewDog starts hot desking


- stinky Australians. And much more.

Enjoy and give our sponsors a big, sloppy kiss, Indeed-style: Sovren, Canvas, JobAdX.


Disability Solutions is changing minds and changing lives through disability inclusion.

Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast. He's back.

Joel: I'm back, bitches. Tanned, rested and ready after a few days in Chicago, because that's where you go to get tanned, rested and ready. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese show, HR's more dangerous and inappropriate podcast. I'm Joel Cheesman.

Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash.

Joel: On this week's show, Zip sticks it to Google's engineers, TikTok is officially a thing we need to talk about. And farting on coworkers is not bullying down under. Grab a Fosters and a bowl of chili, we'll be right back after this word from Sovren.

Sovren: Sovren AI Matching is the most sophisticated matching engine on the market, because it acts just like a human. You decide exactly how our AI matching engine thinks about each individual transaction. It will find, rank and sort the best matches according to your criteria. Not only does it deliver the best matches, it tells you how and why it produced them, and offers tips to improve the results. Our engine thinks like you, so you don't have to learn to think like the engine. To learn more about Sovren AI Matching, visit That's S-O-V-R-E-N dot com.

Ed: This is Ed from Philly, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad: God damn straight, Ed. Last week, a lactose-free Chad and Cheese podcast, little Jim-

Joel: No cheese.

Chad: Little Jim Stroud filling in.

Joel: Stinky cheese free.

Chad: Stinky cheese free, yeah. We'll talk about the stinky cheese a little bit later in the episode.

Joel: Chad's already strategizing on ways to replace me after last week, I'm sure.

Chad: You are not replaceable my friend.

Joel: Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate that. Wish I could say the same. Yeah, went to Chicago, spring break, kids, did a little bit of the Chicago Museum, all the good things they have there. Taking a two year old to two museums in one day, not a good idea.

Chad: No. I don't know who's plan that was, but yeah that was, there's a fatal flaw there and that was a two year old.

Joel: Well you know, we like to stretch our activities as much as possible. I will say, and you'll appreciate this, the Industry and Science Museum, I think it's called?

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Had a World War II stuka, German fighter bomber, that's one of only two in the world that's still intact, which was really cool. They also have an entire U-Boat, German U-Boat from World War II that's at the museum.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Quick shout out for them, if you're into that stuff, which I know I am, I think Chad is as well, that was a well worth trip to that museum.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Agreed. And if you're interested in listening to cool shit you're at the right place.

Chad: Boom.

Joel: Because we talk cool shit. You want to get the shout outs?

Chad: Yeah, so real quick, you missed it last week, I got another box of craft beer, so I want to re-shout out to Jim and Thomas over at Talent Nexxus-

Feffer: Such an asshole.

Chad: While rubbing your nose in it. So I just thought I'd go ahead and get that out there really quick.

Crowd: Boo.

Joel: Nice. Send some booze to me people, come on. My life's just as tough as Chads.

Chad: Nobody likes you, come on.

Joel: Ouch, damn!

Feffer: Such an asshole.

Chad: And that being said, shout out to Joel's 15-year-old boy band self, after a night at Justin fucking Timberlake. Dude, you just lost your 1980s rock-n-roll card dude. Hand that shit over.

Joel: Yeah, the hair metal club kicked me out this week. So, somehow your wife went to the Justin Timberlake concert.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: And you were not roped into this.

Chad: No.

Joel: My wife, same thing, however I attended, so I'm clearly the better husband of this duo.

Chad: That's where we can go with it sure.

Joel: I've never been to a show like this. The shows I got to, it's like one stage, the band comes out, they play and then they're done. This was like a whole, they used the entire court, if you will of the basketball arena. It's a show. It's outfit changes, it's dancers and all. Women were losing their minds over this show and I know JT's popular. The one thing I did notice is, I got a lot of dirty looks from women. I felt like they were mad at me for taking seats that women should have been, you know, in.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Like, why are you here? You're taking valuable real estate from our sisters who could be here cheering on Justin Timberlake. So for the women who were upset with me for attending the show, I apologize, however wife...

Chad: My wife comes first and so do her friends, so wanted to ensure they had the opportunity to actually get a ticket to go, which is why I kept my ass at home and drank bourbon and watched t.v.

Joel: Nice save. Nice save. Nice save. The dude puts on a good show, no matter what you think about him or NSYNC, or whatever, like he can dance and sing and there's something to be said for that.

Chad: Yeah, you can't talk your way out of this one, Cheesman. Shout out to Steven Rothberg, for hooking us up with T-shirts, that say on them, "One beer please" in Portuguese, because we're going to Portugal for TAtech in Lisbon in May and Steven Rothberg, the loving listener that he is, he wanted to make sure we were hooked up and that could get beer easily. So, thank you so much Steven.

Joel: Steven is all about the love.

Chad: He's awesome.

Joel: We appreciate that. I have nothing to say about that. People send us the weirdest shit sometimes.

Chad: I love it.

Joel: Yeah. I love it.

Chad: It's a good shirt.

Joel: Thanks Steven, appreciate it. In more business angles here, XOR...

Chad: XOR.

Joel: Firing squad alumni, who's just taring it up in the chat bot space, recently got 2.25 million in seed funding so I think everyone now has officially got money that's in the chat bot space. Interesting here is SignalFire was the backing...

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Venture capital firm who was the force, I guess, behind TextRecruit...

Chad: Yes.

Joel: So, these guys obviously see some benefit there. We'll probably see a similar cash out that they enjoyed when ICIMS bought TextRecruit, but good for XOR and the team there. We'll see them soon, right? They're going to be in Nashville, I think. I think she's at the StaffingTec.

Chad: Yeah, I believe so. The one thing that I think is interesting about this is they're actually moving from Austin to San Francisco. And we're seeing a lot of reports of people moving the fuck out of California, just from an expense standpoint, not being able to find housing, all that happy horse shit that you need to actually do business. And they're moving to the Austins or even Minneapolis or what have you or Indianapolis. This was kind of a reverse engineered kind of like we're getting out of Austin and going to San Francisco, so I thought that was kind of interesting.

Joel: Yeah, my guess is SignalFire is in San Francisco...

Chad: Yeah, well, money.

Joel: And when you give people money, you kind of want them close.

Chad: Shout out to Matt O'Donnell. Apparently, he had a conversation with our friends over at Emissary, and he started the conversation this way (and this is how you should always start your conversations): "Hey, I heard you on the Chad and Chees podcast." That's how you do it, man.

Joel: I can't disagree.

Chad: That's how you do it.

Joel: Yeah, and I think we've heard more than a few stories from our sponsors about people who call in and say 'I heard about you guys on the Chad and Cheese show.' I'm not sure what that says about you as a prospect, but your money's spends just as well as everyone else's.

Chad: That's exactly right.

Joel: Shout out to HireClix.

Chad: Oh yeah.

Joel: You guys out there sent a box of shwag.

Chad: Very nice, very nice. Want to also send out a shout out to Tarquin over at Google. He actually hooked us up with Next '19 tickets but we're not going to able to use them because we're going to be at SHRM Talent and Staffing Tech. So, big shout out, thanks Tarquin. Hopefully next year, we can get a coordination so that we're not running over these types of conferences.

Joel: Yeah, I think that was on the campus, right?

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Google's campus.

Chad: Yeah, that's a big fucking conference that they have.

Joel: If we can make it next year, that would be a hell of a deal to go see


Chad: Yep, yep.

Joel: Shout out to Mike Timpken, industry vets would know Mike...

Chad: Oh yeah.

Joel: Shaker Recruitment Marketing, also our travel sponsor, thank you for that guys.

Chad: Oh yeah.

Joel: Mike has been in the industry for 31 fricking years.

Chad: Holy shit.

Joel: Yeah, the dude is forgotten more than most of us know, even us old timers. Mike's always personable and friendly and has something smart to say. He's sort of like the Gerry Crispin of the agency world. So, Mike, shout out to you. Here's to 31 more years in the industry.

Chad: I hope they have an elevator. Whenever I've been to Shaker, you always take the escalator, walk up the stairs or something like that. I hope they have an elevator so that Mike's old ass can get to work and not be out of breath.

Joel: Well, knowing the sense of humor of the guys and gals at Shaker, I'm sure there were a lot of tombstones and black decorations and balloons to celebrate 31 years.

Chad: A big shout out to April Fool's Day! So, I've never actually been a participant in an April Fool's joke that was so well design and/or funded.

Pirate: Yee be poo without Talroo.

Chad: This is fucking awesome, right?

Joel: Yeah, totally, I think most of our listeners probably know what they did, they did a new segment for pirates and we had a whole segments on issues with that and challenges and highlighting it...

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: And our podcasts as well as for the videos that they've done at Talroo. I don't know why more companies don't do this that have the resources to do it. We're in a very serious, sort of stodgy industry, and I think a good breath of fresh air in comedy and poking fun at ourselves is really healthy. So, I'd like to see more of this going forward, but big ups to Talroo. Not just because we were a part of it but because they sort of had the balls to be creative and get outside the box and do something funny.

Chad: They even had (and if you haven't listened to the podcast, you've got to check it out) a dialect coach that they brought in that spoke pirate.

Pirate: Yee be poo without Talroo.

Chad: And, that's all I've got for shout out.

Joel: Yeah, lets talk about events. Nashville next week. Loved the Nashville chicken, among other things there, country music and... So we'll be at SHRM Talent and StaffingTec: two big shows, quite frankly. We're getting some great content, as usual, so be on the lookout for that.

Chad: Yes, and chase us down, because we're going to be giving away free Chad and Cheese limited edition T-shirts thanks to

Joel: Now, do people have to do anything to get these shirts or just say 'love the show,' or...

Chad: Find us, ask for a T-shirt and I don't know, maybe buy us a beer. Shit, that would be great, too. But, once again, thanks to Emissary, they're the guys who made this happen. If you don't know those guys, check them out, because texting makes recruiting easier. I don't know why anybody has to say that, you should know that by now.

Joel: Yes, call Emissary if you're still emailing and in-mailing candidates.

Chad: All the pods that we bring out of SHRM Talent, those are powered by Jobcase.

Joel: Jobcase coming to bat for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad: They're getting ready to drop something on this industry.

Joel: Yep, we're big fans, big fans to say the least. Tatech in Chicago event after that...

Chad: Got to be there.

Joel: We're doing recruitment marketing, which is a topic near and dear to our hearts and the panel is going to be great. Joe Shaker, there's another Cheesman on the panel, not related...

Chad: Another Cheesman.

Joel: But might as well be. Abby Cheesman from Skill Scout will be there. We got someone from, not FanDuel, but...

Chad: DraftKings.

Joel: DraftKings, right. So, that will be interesting. And who am I missing? There some...

Chad: Tom.

Joel: Tom! Tom will be there from Smashfly, so that's a start-studded panel.

Chad: Star-studded panel. And then, after that, we're actually going to be down in Austin once again for an unplugged event. Chad and Cheese... We're doing unplugged events now, guys. At Talroo, which is invitation only. So, sorry if you don't have an invitation, you can't go. And can't wait to do an unplugged event.

Joel: Lets get to the show.

Ed: This is Ed from Philly, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad: ZipRecruiter, man, we don't hear...

Joel: Ian Siegel go talking shit on Fox News...

Chad: We don't hear anything from Ian, but, so lets go ahead and prep this first. Democratic presidential candidate, Andrew Yang, actually said that new technologies, robots, software, AI, have already destroyed more than four million jobs in the US and in the next five to ten years, it will eliminate millions more. So, this is where Ian steps in, and what does he say?

Joel: By the way, Yang, the presidential candidate, I want to say Jerry Yang, but that's the Yahoo founder. He's in for universal basic income. This guy's pretty interesting, it'd be really cool to get him on the show and he's fringe enough that he might actually do it, but probably not.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: So, anyway, Fox News brought on how algorithms and how we're recruiting and hiring and how robots are helping the hiring process and Ian's Zip's CEO and, I believe founder (I don't know if he's the founder or co-founder) he's on the show and basically and says 'We're more than just key word search we're resume, we're job,' he goes through this whole thing...

Chad: Oh yeah.

Joel: And then he says 'We're the smartest, we're the best algorithm out there.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Which is pretty ballsy. There's this company called Google that has a lot of smart people working on the algorithms, so to say ZipRecruiter has the best algorithm is pretty, pretty ballsy.

Chad: Quote: "It's the smartest algorithm that's ever been built.'

Joel: Thank you, that was much better than my paraphrasing.

Chad: That, to me, when I saw the quote, I'm like 'He didn't say that.' And then, no, he fucking said that. So, Zip is taking swings, which I think is awesome, even if he did just mean our segments, being the recruiting segment. Google is in the recruiting segment and they're doing candidate matching within hire, right? So, this is very interesting.

Joel: Yeah, even if he was just meaning the employment space...

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Google is now in our space.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Microsoft, LinkedIn is in our space. Facebook, all these companies in our space and to say that yours is the best algorithm out there, that's pretty ballsy, dude.

Chad: That is.

Joel: And it sounds nothing like a company that wants to go public soon.

Feffer: Such an asshole.

Chad: Well, that being said, you're talking about Facebook. Their workplace gets chat bots from Servicenow. This is a story we saw on TechCrunch. And this is all a part of Facebook's strategy to integrate more enterprise applications into workplace. In May at their FA conference, Facebook announced 52 integrations with companies like Atlassian, SurveyMonkey, HubSpot, Marketo...

Joel: Yep.

Chad: Yeah, pretty big names. And from my standpoint, this seems like really some swings at Slack, and saying 'Look, yes, we are coming into this space, we're doing it a different way and we're coming after Slacks. So we're not going to buy you, we're just going to partner and we're going to destroy you.'

Joel: And you love Teams by Microsoft, so we're doing interesting things as well. You got Facebook doing this. These guys have the money and the resources to build these kinds of partnerships and integrations.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Now, Slack, as we know, filed with the New York Stock Exchange, I believe, recently, or they announced they they'll be going on NYSE.

Chad: Direct, right?

Joel: Yeah, direct, similar to Spotify. I want to say June and July will be the months... One of those months is when they'll actually go IPO, which I'm really excited to see their reporting, their financials, and then actually going public, see what happens.

Chad: Right.

Joel: I have noticed, actually got an email basically promoting Slack for HR teams. So they are specifying HR as a market that they want to get into. And also, on the Facebook side, when you look at the screen shots of the integrations, you see actual human resources as a component of the integrations that are happening at work with Facebook or Facebook workplace.

Chad: Right, and it's interesting because Facebook then, just today was reported, they have a 'Whoops, I did it again, Brittany Spears moment.' TechCrunch reported that security researchers found 540 million Facebook user records sitting on a public-stored server. So, as we talk about all these great integrations and what not, the question is: can you trust Facebook? If you're a company who can trust Facebook, who has had all of these issues with security and data breaches and really just privacy. Is this where you want to go with your company information?

Joel: Yeah, I think Slack being a public company, depending on the breadth and size and success of what they're doing, a lot of companies will choose Slack over Facebook for privacy reasons.

Chad: Or Teams.

Joel: Or Teams, yeah, for sure. Microsoft has a pretty good track record that as well. I think staying away from the open source guys will probably be something the enterprise level companies will do. I don't think they're going to jump on board with some of the smaller guys that we've talked about on the show. But, yeah, Facebook has a real privacy issue and that's not going away. If anything, it's getting worse.

Chad: So kind of parlaying the first Facebook workplace integration into Hire by Google's integrations.

Joel: Google continues to surprise us with the incremental enhancements, partnerships, technologies that they're unveiling. And a few weeks ago, we talked about the API enhancements with Steven Rothberg and what they're doing on the job search for plugging it into other sites.

Chad: Right.

Joel: They continue to innovate with Hire by Google, their ATS product. And I know a lot of this stuff, like integrations with job boards, is pretty archaic for some people.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: It's been going on for a long time. For Google to do it, it's just another step into the world in which we live and being a major player and shows that they're listening to their clients who are saying 'Hey, you guys need to do this because everyone else does it.' What stood out to me, as well, with the integrations is Glassdoor and Indeed are both integrations. So, Indeed, who doesn't play with Google, at least here in the states, we've seen instances where over sees, like in France, you can find Indeed jobs on Google for Jobs. They're fine with getting jobs from Google, not so much putting their own jobs on Google for Jobs.

Chad: Yes, so we saw testing of Indeed actually providing jobs in Google for Jobs in France, and you know how hard it is (very spotty) to get some of those tests. So, if you are in France, or anywhere around there and you can get more screenshots, that would be awesome. Yeah, I think these Google integrations just do make sense but they're standard fare, when you get into applicant tracking systems, or even CRMs. But they are once again on the SMB kind of moving up.

Chad: So anything they do, there's going to be fan fare about, because from an SMB standpoint they don't expect much because they've been using Google fucking spreadsheets or what have you. Now, they actually get to use and applicant tracking system and it's more process-focused and getting just the standard operating procedure of what we're used to in this industry down to the little guy. But, this is, I see, starting to build a solid foundation to move toward enterprise. I don't think it's any time soon but I think it's definitely making those steps.

Joel: I think when we talked to Steven Rothberg about his relationship with Google, I was really impressed with his comments around how attentive Google is to requests and questions and just feedback from him, which I assume is happening throughout the industry as a whole. The fact that Tarquin is sending us fairly long messages about advice on how to get more out of geo targeting on the new search.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: You know, Google didn't used to do that. Google used to just put shit out in the world and you either embraced it or you didn't. This continues to show a real respect for the industry, what people want, what feedback they're getting and they're acting accordingly. To me, its a big hat tip to Google.

Chad: It was cool technology before, turning into, 'How do we make this more of a human type of an organization.'