Video recruiting has been touted pretty much since the dawn of the Internet. And we're still waiting for it to be the huge success it was supposed to become. No company encapsulates this more than HireVue, who was in the news this week as the boys discuss the future of video in the recruiting game.
- Is HireVue still viable?
- Workable kicks Hire by Google when they're down
- Stupid #diversity tricks
- Joblift becomes the Indeed.com of our industry?
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Tim Sackett: HI, I'm Tim Sackett, and you're listening to The Chad & Cheese Podcast. I'm not sure why you are, but hey, you do you.
Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HRs most dangerous Podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls, it's time for The Chad & Cheese Podcast.
Joel: Are you ready for some football?
Chad: God damn right.
Joel: Welcome to the football is back, abbreviated Labor Day episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast, HRs most concussed entertainment. I'm Joel Cheesman.
Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash.
Joel: On this week's show, is it time to start questioning video recruiting? Firing employees via virtual reality headsets and bots, bots, bots, and did I mention bots? Beep boop bop beep. And did I mention football is back? Stay tuned.
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Chad: Guess who we're going to see next week? That's right, Canvas.
Joel: The whole Canvas team.
Chad: That's right. Jobvite, a little Recruiter Nation Live.
Joel: Recruiter Nation Live. We're going to corner Aman Brar, and get his fantasy picks. I mean, get his take-aways on the industry, and where Jobvite is going under his leadership. Sorry man, I was in two drafts last night, simultaneously, so I'm still a little bit Fantasied out.
Chad: It is so smart to wait this long to actually do your draft picks, because those of you who actually drafted before Luck, obviously, retired. Or, most of those others who actually tore ACLs and whatnot, I mean, that's kind of the bitch, right?
Joel: Yeah. On the flip side, ZEKE signs the biggest contract in running-back history.
Chad: Yup. ZEKE.
Joel: That happened yesterday. So if you were drafting, that was kind of nice to know that he'd actually be suiting up in week one.
Chad: I have actually paired it down to just one. I usually do three or four, but this year I've paired it down to one,-
Chad: ... because I'm busy doing this Podcast thing. You know?
Joel: Loser. I'm in two. We'd actually discussed a Chad & Cheese Fantasy, which we'll have to revisit that next season, I guess.
Joel: And, believe it or not, the Browns have some hype and might actually be good this year.
Chad: Oh, whatever.
Joel: SO, I'm pretty excited.
Chad: Yeah, no It would be good to see the Browns do well, for once, in a very long time.
Joel: I know, right?
Chad: So, back from Sweden. We're back from the robes, slippers, bikes, and swimming in cold water with your ancestors. That was a blast.
Joel: That was a blast. So, we had a list of things we wanted to do. I don't think we realized we were going to be in sort of a resort area.
Joel: But we swam in the North Sea, which technically was Kattegat.
Chad: Kattegat, yeah.
Joel: If you watch Vikings, it was extra cool because that's the name of a town that they live in, in Vikings.
Chad: Yeah. Right in that area, man.
Joel: Robes everywhere, super rich people vacation there. I mean, it the whole European Scandinavian experience. I was stupid enough to agree to eat this-
Joel: ... horrid fish. It's Surströmming. It's rotting fish, basically. I assume with the cold winters, they had to figure out a way to preserve fish just long enough.
Chad: That's not how you do it, by the way. Yeah.
Joel: You smelled it.
Chad: Yes. Yes.
Joel: Underwater, it was horrible.
Chad: Oh, it was ridiculous.
Joel: So what you have to do with this thing is, it's in this tin that looks like it's from the Civil War, and you open it under a bucket of water, so all the nasty...
Joel: Then you take... We actually got the whole fish, it wasn't the filet of fish. So, I appreciate Elin and her team making sure that we had the actual full fish to deal with. So then, you throw the fish in another bucket and then, you pour water on that. Then you cut this fish up, without throwing up, if you can help it, because you're still smelling this horrible, horrible stench.
Chad: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Joel: Then you cut up this fish that's sort of slimy and boney, and then you put it on a cracker with cheese and whatever else-
Chad: [crosstalk 00:05:22], yeah.
Joel: ... was on it. Then you eat it. And as only two people ate it,
me and another woman from-
Joel: And most of the Swedes had never tried this stuff. So, I feel like I get major points in the Scandinavian area, for being an American, coming there and doing that. But I will say that there wasn't enough TUMS in my room to extinguish the stank.
Chad: It stank. Dude, it stank. It was a level-
Joel: Yeah, it's-
Chad: ... of stank that I have... And I've lived in Third World countries, people. But we'll spare you, because we have a video that will be coming out, with Joel in his white robe, eating the Surströmming.
Joel: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chad: That, to me, that was classic, and it was horrible all at the same time. But tell us about the '90's party, because that, that was a blast.
Joel: The '90's party. So, if you've never been to Sweden or know any Swedes, they're some of the most polite-
Chad: Quiet, yeah.
Joel: ... sort of reserved people. Which is very unlike Americans, who love talking and talking over each other. So, we have this '90's dance party, I'm in basically clothes that I actually owned in the '90's. An Oasis T-shirt and a Grunge-style flannel. You're in sort of a Beastie Boy-inspired outfit.,-
Joel: ... and Julie looked like the lost Spice Girl, kind of, your wife. So, the beat start, right? This is some Euro-Electro dance party thing.
Chad: It was like Eastern Bloc shit, is what it was.
Joel: It was like Night At The Roxy, right? Like (singing), and the Swedes lose their minds.
Joel: I'm trying to figure out how to explain it, but it was sort of like Sprockets, if you remember the old SNL skit. It was like Sprockets-
Chad: "Touch my monkey."
Joel: ... it was like a mosh pit where no one touched each other.
Chad: "Touch my monkey."
Joel: It was like a Kung Fu fight where no one touched each other. It lasted until 5:00 in the morning. We weren't up that long,-
Joel: ... but the party raged for like eight hours.
Chad: Dude, I was looking for great '90's music, right, and there was none of that. It was all Eastern Bloc techno shit, the entire time.
Joel: But they knew every song.
Chad: They loved it.
Joel: They knew every song.
Chad: Yup, yup.
Joel: But yeah, people lost their minds. We got some video coming your way. It was a great time, major shout-out to Sweden, and the folks at Tengai and TNG. I speak for both of us when I say we had a great time.
Chad: We had an amazing time. And a big thanks to, I'm going to say his name wrong, but at least in English it's Joachim, for actually videoing you dancing. Got a little bit of me and Julie dancing, but the show was Joel Cheesman dancing, with a beer, not spilling a drop.
Joel: By the way, the Swedish pronunciation of my name is Joele. Joele got down, at the '90's party, for sure. Hey, no shame, no shame.
Chad: And Monster, while I was in Sweden, they totally attacked my Twitter account with Swedish Monster ads. And they hit it so hard that I came back to the US, we landed on Monday, two days later I was still getting Swedish Monster ads. (singing) So yeah, shout-out to you Monster, for... Yeah, that's some shitty targeting right there.
Joel: Is Sweden a huge market for them? I'm a little confused to why that was-
Chad: The US isn't.
Joel: Go conquer Sweden, Monster. Good job.
Chad: Yeah. Big shout-out to Jonathan Duarte, who enjoyed one of our latest podcasts.
Joel: Oh, yeah.
Chad: It was entitled AI Versus RPA, where Max Armbruster joins us to talk about AI, RPA, and where his company, Talkpush, is focusing today. And last on the shout-outs is, that we, if you haven't heard the teaser for the cult brand series, we are about to hit you in the head with a podcast series, that is one to rule them all. No, seriously. We're actually collaborating with the guys over in The Gathering,-
Joel: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chad: ... and also with SmashFly, to be able to bring you guys a new podcast series that is focused on cult brand.
Joel: We're building bridges, Chad, that's what we're doing. We're construction workers building bridges to marketing and recruiting. It's a beautiful thing.
Chad: We all know why, at this point, we should do this shit, now, we have to have the how. And we're bringing in some pretty big names to talk about the how.
Joel: Dude, I'm impressed with the names. People will be shocked to know the brands that we're bringing on the show.
Joel: I'm excited.
Chad: Events. We already talked about Recruiter Nation Live, next week.
Joel: Yup. San Francisco, if you're going to be out there the 9th through the 11th.
Joel: Come by and say hi, have some Anchor Steam with us.
Chad: That's one of the things I was really impressed about with Sweden, was their beer. And the reason being, I was actually talking to a couple of guys in the bars, is they're mimicking US IPAs and beer making, because they know how well we do it. And this is a shout-out to Rob Prince, to once again... And everybody in England. Remember, you guys came up with IPA, but the US, we're kicking your ass, because we have so much better IPAs out there.
Joel: TAtech, let's talk about that real quick. We got Death Match coming, our third annual... not annual, but our third Death Match competition.
Joel: We're talking Job.com, we're talking AssessFirst.
Joel: We're talking SeekOut, and we're talking Pez. It's going to
be a throw down.
Chad: Yes. And we have two incredibly smart ladies, who are going to be doing the hard part of the judging, Cindy Songe from Talroo and Quincy Valencia from Alexander Mann Solutions. Those guys are coming up big as the big sponsor to this, so we're really excited. And, really excited about the "trophies".
Joel: Yeah. Let's keep that a secret until we actually unveil it.
Chad: Okay, okay.
Joel: I'm pretty excited, but I don't want to ruin that for anybody else. Quickly following TA Tech in Austin, we've got HR Tech, the-
Joel: ... I don't know, the 800-pound gorilla of HR conferences,-
Joel: ... in Vegas, happening, I'm guessing, October 1st through the 4th, or something.
Chad: Yup, yup. Brought to you by Jobcase. That's right, Jobcase. The LinkedIn for the other 70%, so that's for most of the country. We're going to be in Vegas. After that, going to Unleash World, onstage with a panel, asking the hard questions, in Paris.
Joel: Oui Oui.
Chad: And that one's brought to you by our friends at SmashFly. So, SmashFly is taking us to Paris with them, so we can have all the wine, cheese, and panel goodness that anybody can handle.
Joel: I love me some cheese. ICERM is coming up as well, their analyst meeting for the year.
Joel: We're still contemplating yoga, at this point-
Joel: ... as one of the activities. I figure if I can eat rotting fish, yoga should be pretty easy.
Chad: I think you can do it. I think you definitely have to do the leg warmers, the head band, the wrist bands, those types of things. I think that is perfect for you.
Joel: Yeah. I know that James Ellis, our buddy, is a big Wish shopper. If he could pick me out some leg warmers, maybe a head band, and wrist bands, and maybe something glittery, that would be great James.
Chad: Yeah, I don't think James Ellis is your personal shopper, but, okay.
Joel: He's got style that I simply don't have, so, I need some help in this area. I'll also mention for Jobcase, a little shout-out, they had a big deal with the state of West Virginia-
Joel: ... in the news recently. So, shout-out for them, for that big win in the big WV.
Chad: Yeah. And we should definitely get Fred on, to talk about that, because that, I think, is very big for platforms and marketplaces, to be able to partner with state workforce. So that's, I think, a big win for them.
Joel: Well, we love Fred and Fred loves us, so I think we could probably make that happen.
Joel: Let's get to the news, shall we?
Joel: Biggest news in a shortened week here in the US, thank you Labor Day, the biggest news came out of HireVue. We had talked about some rumors, a few shows ago, about some private equity coming in, buying up some of the shares of the company. HireVue, obviously, refuted those rumors, of course, they were true. This week, private equity came in, numbers were not disclosed. We know HireVue has been invested to the tune of 90+ million dollars, over the last 15 years. I have nothing to add, news-wise on that, but is it time to question the validity of video recruiting?
Chad: Well, before we get to that. I think, HireVue, we've talked about facial recognition, we've talk about all those kind of like unicorns and rainbows shit,-
Joel: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chad: ... but they do some pretty cool fucking stuff. I mean, they do assessments through coding challenges and games, plus, they have an interview scheduling module. I mean, they are really an efficiencies platform. The big question is, for me, I think this to me is more of a warning sign than anything else., because if HireVue was really worth it, and they could be a strategic play for a much larger system, thinking about applicant-tracking systems and even bigger than that, they would have been bought by now, right?
Joel: Yeah. 15-some years they've been around.
Joel: They are the gold standard, I guess, in terms of video recruiting and interviewing,-
Joel: ... and they're still chugging, right? They've got $90 million, and we've talked about this many times, when you get that kind of money, people want to liquidation event. They want an IPO, they want to sell the company for 10X, and that hasn't happened. So I have to wonder, is video really that beneficial, in terms of interviewing, right? No one else is doing it, they have little competition. The only video stuff we see is like branding videos out of VideoMyJob and our friends in Chicago there, Skill Scout, and others, which is beneficial. But you throw it up on YouTube and you throw it up on your site, and people are kind of done with it.
Joel: So, I just don't know what the value of video is. We've talked about it being this huge thing for a long time, we talk about the internet being over-run with videos, Snapchat, TikTok, Instagram, it's all about video. But it's just not happening in recruiting, and maybe it's time soon, unless some app comes around that I don't see, to maybe bury the whole technology, or just commoditize it and move on with other stuff.
Chad: I think companies like Vervoe, those guys have video interviewing in their platform, but it's not centered around that, so they give you so many options to, obviously, interview in so many different ways. So I think HireVue went big, right out of the gate, as a video interviewing platform, now, they've turned into something entirely different, although, still centered around video. They're doing all these gamification types of things, and there's a lot of money, like you said. Trying to get 10X out of 93, not to mention this new investment that's put in, that's the warning signal for me. If they haven't been bought yet, and they are demonstrating efficiencies, there is no question, okay?
Chad: They are the gold standard when it comes to certain aspects of the interviewing and being able to make the process more efficient, but still, the big question, "Why the fuck are they still not a part of a larger system?" Or, as they see themselves, and this is actually a quote from HireVue, "HireVue's market-leading SaaS platform and suite of recruitment solutions, assist global enterprises in finding, engaging, and hiring the best talent." Now, that doesn't sound like just interviewing system. So maybe they are trying to becoming their own version of an applicant tracking system.
Joel: Yeah, I just think the fire's going out on video interviewing and video in general. I mean, I remember when it was huge. I remember when companies would actually mail little web-cam cameras to people, when they weren't on every device,-
Chad: Yes, yes.
Joel: ... and the little camera would have your logo on it, and you'd connect it to the people you were interviewing. I think the coals are burning, and the fire may be going out, on videos. And I think the whole branding stuff will remain sort of a fringe little work-life balance business, where people who like video go to companies, and companies pay for that and that's fun, but that's not a billion dollar business. And it's more and more looking like HireVue is not a billion-plus dollar business either.
Chad: Yeah. I think as companies start to try to focus on that brand, and they can start having dialogue around how brand is actually impacting the bottom line, then I think there's a huge opportunity for those types of organizations, not just a dip into employment branding dollars, which isn't a huge pool by the way, compared to the overall marketing dollars, right? As soon as they can start bridging that, I think there is a humongous opportunity, but it's not just in dipping into the pool of HR dollars.
Joel: I mean, I think the platforms of, we talked about Snapchat, Instagram... I mean, clearly, people like video, they like watching it, 5G's going to make it real easy to stream everything.
Joel: I think that your Smart TV, Roku, Apple TV, et cetera, will have apps to watch job postings on video. I agree that it's a thing, I just think companies really aren't that into it, and I don't think job seekers are all that into it.
Chad: I think a lot of it, again, has to do with application, how they're using it, and not just doing video, much like we talked about before, companies saying, "I need a Chat bot, I need a Chat bot. I have no fucking clue why I need one, but everybody's talking them," same thing with video. "Oh, that looks all cool. We need video, we need video." It's like, "Okay, let's focus on the application, the actual user experience, and see where that fits in." All of that makes a lot of sense. Then, once again, I'm going to beat it like a dead horse, it's being able to bridge beyond HR, and being able to bring in marketing, in the big brand, to be able to help them understand how it actually impacts.
Chad: All these millions of people that come to your website, that are looking for jobs every year, how can you effectively impact those individuals? That's not coming out of the HR pool of cash, which is not huge by the way, compared to marketing and big brand.
Joel: Yeah. Well, I'm not ready to dig the grave yet, but I've definitely opened up the coffin, at this point.
Chad: It sounds like you're also picking out the clothes that they're going to wear, as well.
SFX: That's it man. Game over, man. Game over.
Joel: It wouldn't be a show without Google this week.
Joel: They're in the news again, what's going on with them?
Chad: Right out of the gate, dude, this is the funniest fucking thing in the world. So, Workable and RecruiterBox are on the Hire by Google attack, right now, and this is fucking hilarious. So, in a Facebook group, and somebody actually posts screenshots of ads being run on Google, one of them by Workable, and here's what the ad says. "G Hire," Hire by Google, "is shutting down. Hire on with Workable." Then obviously, it's an ad. "Google Hire's dying," or, "Hire by Google's dying, come see us." Then RecruiterBox, "Google Hire is going away, we are their number-one competitor."
Chad: So, the body is not even cold yet, right? Workable and RecruiterBox, and I can't imagine all the other organizations that are out there, that are looking to dive into this fresh carcass. So I thought that was incredibly funny, and smart at the same time. I mean, it's a cut-throat market, no question,-
Chad: ... but from what I understand, some of the sources that I've heard from, they've had, well, thousands of companies using this product.
Chad: So, now it's time to jump in.
Joel: The buzzards are flocking and the sharks smell blood. Hats off to the marketing departments of those companies, because they're being creative, they're thinking outside the box, and God love you, you're using their own platform to talk trash. Got to love that.
Chad: Using Google to attack Google. That's awesome.
Joel: Yeah. And fortunately, Google has bigger problems than Workable's marketing budget for pay-per-clicks.
Chad: Yes, they do.
Joel: In the news this week, to the tune of 200-some million dollars in the EU, Google had to pay up for targeting children, re-targeting children, collecting data on children users. Not a good thing, they're writing a big check. Again.
Chad: Yes. From our standpoint, and again there're definitely more theories about why Hire by Google is sunsetting next year. Recruitics had a blog out this week, the top three things that they believe, and for me, it was number three, it was anti-trust.
Chad: And it did have people on Facebook this week saying, "Well, yeah, that was a factor." Yeah, I know it was a factor, it was the biggest fucking factor that's out there. And this anti-trust thing is obviously big. And if you go to Google for Jobs in Europe, you'll notice that the UI is a tad different than how