RECORDED LIVE from the 4th Street Bar in Columbus, IN.
Joel gnaws on tasty 4th Street buffalo wings while Chad drinks a 4 Day Ray and they talk:
...and more on this weeks episode of The Chad and Cheese.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Jim Stroud: Jim Stroud here, and you are listening to my favorite podcast. I listen to it every day, it's amazing, it's wonderful, it's... okay, help me out. Who are you guys again?
Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.
Chad: All right, recording and ready when you are.
Joel: Finishing my celery stick here.
Chad: That makes you feel good.
Joel: These are some monster, steroid, Columbus, Indiana chicken wings man.
Chad: Oh, yeah. We don't do shit wrong.
Joel: This is like ostrich wings.
Chad: Yeah, we do it right here in Columbus, Indiana.
Joel: Obviously. All right.
Chad: Other than Mike Pence.
Joel: All right. Here's the intro. Ready? You should throw in that first part. Anyway, what's up Chad bots and Cheese heads? I just made that up.
Chad: That's pretty good, I like it.
Joel: We're recording from a bar in Columbus, Indiana today, so that means the WiFi is sparse but at least the beer is cold and the wings are hot. I'm your cohost, Joel Cheesman.
Chad: And I'm Chad Four-Day-Ray-Beer-In-My-Hand Sowash.
Joel: I like it. On this weeks show, HackerRank gets LinkedIn, that's a verb and a noun, boys and girls. Jobiqo gets paid and it's all the millennials fault. Obvi. Grab a local brew and join us for some podcasting goodness. We'll be right back.
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Chad: And we're back.
Joel: And we're back.
Chad: I love it, I love it. So NCAA football, I've got to start off with this. Sackett is still in the fetal position, over in the corner after the Buckeyes whipped the shit out of Sparty, dude.
Joel: I totally missed giving him shit for that. I totally spaced.
Chad: That's why we have a podcast, so we can do it here together with
Joel: A podcast.
Joel: That's all right, we'll be routing for them against Michigan here soon.
Chad: Yeah, no, I mean, either way it's good because we're going to beat both of them. Also, last weekend Iowa played the team up north, so I texted Adam Godson from Cielo, the tech god over at Cielo, and I'm like, "Dude, are you glued to the TV?"
Chad: And he was like, "No, I'm not quite glued to the TV." And he sent me pictures from the fourth row in the big house. He was at the game with the family fourth row, in the big house.
Joel: Fourth row? There's like a million rows in that stadium.
Chad: Yeah, no, he was like on a the field, dude. That was good shit. But it was hilarious because I just texted him, he's a Hawkeye fan, you know, "What are you doing Hawkeye fan?" It was a boring ass game so hopefully they had a good experience.
Joel: It was close at least.
Chad: Close but boring as fuck.
Joel: Boring as hell.
Joel: Good old-fashioned defensive battle.
Joel: Big time.
Chad: Ready for shout outs?
Joel: We're ready for shout outs, I guess.
Chad: So the very first shout out has to go to my daughter, Ema-
Chad: Who is turning 18 and she has the best birthday ever. It is binary and it symmetrical. It is October 11, 2001. Which is 10, 1-1, 01. Amazing. Happy Birthday, Ema. She's going to be enjoying her new super Beetle, or Beetle, I'm sorry. Beetle Turbo-
Joel: That is kind of a super Beetle. I've driven in it. The tinted windows are nice.
Chad: Yeah, it is the mac daddy of all Beetles.
Joel: If she wants a career in drug dealing, she can do it.
Chad: We don't need that, thanks. We don't need that. So happy birthday, Ema.
Joel: I'm going to give a shout out to our buddies at Candidate.ID for giving you a shirt and neglecting to give me a shirt.
Chad: Oh, you didn't get one?
Joel: That's some bullshit.
Chad: Oh, well it's a hoodie.
Joel: I have to attribute it to my golf clap that I gave Gordon in their firing squad debut. Yeah, thanks, man. I appreciate it.
Chad: Not to mention, I am now an investor from the whole crowdfunding thing. So not only did I give them the big applause, I also gave them money because I believe in the organization. So of anybody hears me talking good about Candidate.ID, I mean, let's just be transparent-
Joel: Full transparency.
Chad: I want them to do incredibly well. Let's talk about that.
Joel: Now, the shirt wasn't in response to being an investor.
Joel: Okay. All right.
Chad: It was in response to-
Joel: For being Chad Sowash.
Chad: Meeting Tim Sackett. Actually had this fishing vest thing that he had on during HR tech that had a Candidate.ID patch on it and I was making fun of him and then a few days later I get a hoodie in the mail. So that's how we do things. We talk about beer, we talk about swag, and it comes in the mail. Big shout out to Zach Jeans, VP of marketing from AbsenceSoft. Believe it or not, that is his name, Zach Jeans. He was really geeked out to meet us in Vegas.
Joel: Is that J-E-A-N-S? Or G-E-N-A-S?
Chad: Yeah, just like the jeans I'm wearing right now. So he was really geeked out to meet us live in Vegas and he's been giving us Twitter love all week. Thanks, really appreciate the love, Zach and moreover, thank you for your service, brother. Really appreciate it.
Joel: I'm going to give a shout out to Cleveland, Ohio, which I am visiting this weekend. I know we do have some listeners up there.
Chad: Home of Evergreen Podcasts.
Joel: Evergreen Podcasts. Yes, good segue into that. We're taking the family though. The Browns are in town, but I will not be attending the game, so I'm a bit torn about this whole thing.
Chad: Oh. Oh.
Joel: Which means they'll beat Seattle on a last second field goal by one point.
Chad: Let's go over something real quick. The Browns aren't beating anybody right now.
Chad: Yeah. Unless it's the Jets, which they've already played and beaten.
Joel: Without Sam Darnold, by the way.
Chad: Without Sam Darnold. Oh, man. So, yeah, big shout out to Evergreen Podcasts. Once again, we're part of the Evergreen network. Go to Evergreenpodcast.com. Check them out, they have a huge selection of podcasts.
Joel: Soon to grow bigger.
Chad: Soon to grow bigger in the HR space. That's right. Moving on, big shout out to Chris and Ryan from The Gathering and Tom, JZ, Raquel and Alise from SmashFly, for supporting the Cult Brand Podcast. We are getting rave reviews from the talent that we have, interviews and the stories from those things man. They are fucking awesome. If you haven't listened to them, just go to Chadcheese.com, click on podcast, look for anything that start with Cult Brand, listen. Listen all day.
Joel: By the way, published this week was the "What Happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas," basically campaign. Interviewed the chief marketing officer of Vegas tourism and whatever.
Chad: Yeah, she's pretty much the CMO of Vegas.
Joel: Pretty much it, yeah. So if you love that campaign, you got to listen to that podcast. Shout out to Brian Blanford, who is a national recruiting director at Bankers Life. Big fan of the show, he reached out to me and said, "Keep up the good work."
Joel: Brian, we will. You keep listening, we'll keep talking.
Chad: Yes. And for everybody that's out there, love the show, hate the show, doesn't matter, give us reviews. Give us reviews. We really appreciate those. It's good, we like to hear how we're doing.
Joel: If you don't have haters you're doing it wrong.
Chad: That's exactly right. Can't be a Cult Brand unless you're pissing somebody off. Big shout to Amy-
Joel: Look at you with the balls claiming us a Cult Brand. Nice.
Chad: That's how you do it. Big shout out to Amy Miller. This week, she actually helped me better understand what mansplaining was. She tweeted a t-shirt that said, "I survived the great mansplaining debate of 2019." And I responded with, "As a dumb white dude, where does the line of mansplaining actually start and end? What areas should I just shut the fuck up? I know everything is a fun answer, but really what is mansplaining? Help me out." And her and several other females, thank you very much, actually helped me out.
Joel: Shout out to Teg Grenager.
Chad: Oh, Teg!
Joel: Many will know him. I'm inspired by your uncommon t-shirt. Which is a quality t-shirt, by the way.
Chad: I love that man. Yes.
Joel: But as you know, Uncommon is getting out of the game. Teg is no longer CEO but he sent me a nice message saying "Hey, I really enjoyed hanging out with you guys and working with you, I'll miss you. Sincerest, Teg."
Joel: So whatever Teg does probably will not be in our space ever again.
Chad: Yeah. Yeah.
Joel: But whatever he does, good wishes to him. Good guy, best of luck.
Chad: He is a good guy. Last but not least for me, I realized after this Amy tweet, I kind of thought a little bit deeper about what we do.
Joel: You thought deeper?
Chad: Yeah, weird huh?
Joel: Wow scary.
Chad: I believe we go above and beyond to try to bring diverse speakers onto the show, and just this week, every single interview, all three podcasts have been female leaders. Angela Hood from This Way Global, Dama Aberg Cobo from Collegia.io, she was on Firing Squad and then we just talked about Cathy Tull, who was the former CMO of Las Vegas on the Cult Brand Podcast. So really happy that not only can we get our voices out there, but we can elevate other people's voices. That's what makes this so much fun.
Joel: Shout out to these wings that I need to eat and let's get on to our travel schedule.
Chad: All right, you and I as a rule, we don't promote shows that we aren't attending.
Joel: Not usually, no.
Chad: Yeah, mainly because if we're promoting our listeners believe that we're going to be there. And they're looking for us to be there, get t-shirts, high fives, smacks in the face, whatever they want to do. Which is cool. We're going to make an exception to the rule this week and promote Fairygodbosses, largest community for women. They're hosting their third annual Galvanize event, making women's resource groups powerful. This is a summit in New York City on October 29th and 30th. The theme of this year's summit is engaging men as allies.
Joel: I like it.
Chad: This is one of the reasons why. I mean, we're not going to be there, guys.
Joel: And they're going to engage us as allies but we're going to be
out of town. Otherwise, we might be engaged.
Chad: Yeah. Unfortunately, we're not going to be around. If you're in and around New York City-
Joel: Lot of people are.
Chad: Yeah, check out Galvanize, man. This is good stuff. And again, if you're a company who is talking about diversity in the workforce and you're just talking and you're not doing, this is a good opportunity to actually go to an event to learn how to do it. Stop talking, do it.
Joel: Yeah, and if you haven't heard our podcast with Romy, co-founder of Fairygodboss, I encourage you to do that.
Chad: That's right. Where are we going next?
Chad: Paris, UNLEASH World in Paris.
Joel: [Foreign language 00:12:09].
Chad: Chad and Cheese brought to you by SmashFly.
Joel: Love those guys.
Chad: Technology. You got to love it. So October 22nd at 11:45 Paris time, we're on the influencer stage at the Paris Convention Center, again, brought to you by SmashFly. We're going to have a panel with Chris Ray, group head of recruitment from Sainsbury's, Brandy Ellis, head of recruitment marketing from the SmashFly, and Adam Yearsley, global head of talent management over at Red Bull. And Adam just wrote a pretty cool article called HR's Talent Management Working with Marketing as a Force Multiplier. We'll pepper him with questions and the rest of the panel with questions around that. Because talent acquisition has been really bad about engaging. And creating really a narrative to engage marketing, that's something that we need to do much better.
Joel: This panel's going to rock.
Chad: This is going to be some fucking awesome stuff.
Joel: You called them The SmashFly, are they like The Facebook, where they used to be The SmashFly and then they had a domain battle?
Chad: No, it's like The Ohio State University. Yeah, okay. I just threw that in there.
Joel: Okay. My bad.
Chad: I'm sure SmashFly marketing doesn't like when I do that.
Joel: I got to check to The SmashFly and see where it goes, dot com.
Chad: We're going to be in Arizona in November for ICIMS Influence. There's so much going on.
Joel: Hot yoga.
Chad: Hot yoga.
Joel: I just threw in hot because it's Arizona.
Chad: Goat yoga. Yeah, so we're going to be there in December on December 6. We're going to be at Talent Net live in Dallas, where I believe, I think we've come to terms with we're going to do the Naughty and Nice Show.
Joel: I think we're doing our much celebrated Naughty or Nice episode live from Dallas.
Chad: You know what I think we might need to do? We might need to pull in a guest for that one so we can make fun of somebody.
Joel: Okay. Any thoughts?
Chad: I don't know, we're going to have to think hard about that. If you're going to Talent Net in Dallas and you want to be on the show- and you want to be on the Naughty or Nice edition, I say you come up on stage.
Joel: Sassy Texan, I think we got to get.
Chad: And you want to be on the Naughty or Nice edition, I say you come up on stage. I think I'm going to call Carrie Corbin out right now.
Chad: I think I'm going to call out Carrie Corbin.
Joel: I wasn't going to bring Carrie up but you did for me, so good.
Chad: If you think you can hang with the Chad and Cheese on stage talking about who's been naughty and nice in 2019, I say you take the challenge and you come up on stage.
Joel: This pretty much guarantees that an Amazon Echo is going to be on the stage because we are going to give McDonald's application process a spin if Carrie's on stage.
Chad: You know it, you know it. All right. We ready for topics? I know you're ready for more wings.
Joel: These are the biggest... I swear to God, what are you pumping the chicken with in Columbus?
Chad: Dude, I told you. Here in Columbus, Indiana, we do things right.
Joel: Oh my god. Let's get to HackerRank.
Chad: HackerRank integrates with Talent Hub. Last week, we talked about Talent Hub and I'm still not convinced that Talent Hub has a differentiator in the market. Just because of the whole haiku ruling.
Joel: Not even the 650 million LinkedIn members?
Chad: No, I don't, because guess what? Those are public members, therefore, available to any database that's out there. So what's the big differentiator? I love HackerRank making it smart for people and easier for people to use their system inside of Talent Hub is you're using Talent Hub. But what's the market differentiator?
Joel: Well, you and I both have talked a lot about platforms, one platforms to rule them all.
Chad: I agree, yeah.
Joel: I think we're both in somewhat of an agreement that if you're going to have a platform for everyone, you have to have a vibrant app store.
Chad: She's going to get me another beer.
Joel: Where you can use third party apps, access them in a nice, integrated fashion. So I think for a long time, LinkedIn obviously has a ton of people, a brand that people trust, Microsoft behind them. But to me, good for HackerRank and I encourage people to go listen to the interview with their CEO because it's great. Good for them but to me, it's a better signal that LinkedIn is going to take seriously third party vendors providing their solutions on their
Joel: And they would probably be about the last that I would consider actually doing it. So I'd love to hear either LinkedIn or HackerRank, what it takes to be integrated, I assume there's a process, there's money involved, all that bullshit. But for LinkedIn to take the step toward third party apps in their solution, says that they're on the right track to being a one service solution, or at least as close as one-stop-shop as you can get in our industry.
Chad: So think of it from this standpoint, I think incredibly smart from HackerRank because companies don't want to hop from platform to platform to platform. They want to use one core platform and they want an integrated solutions, whether that's one solution or a customized solution that's integrated, Smart for HackerRank, no question. What's the big upside here with respectively the integration of Github, along with HackerRank. Because Microsoft owns Github.
Joel: Well, do you have the techies, now you have the tech testing system.
Chad: Yeah so if you have the techies and you can integrate that and I'm not saying that Github is integrated into LinkedIn, because it's not. But what's the opportunity for LinkedIn and, or HackerRank through this partnership to really blow this out of the fucking water.
Joel: Let me just say now that LinkedIn buying HackerRank, is going to be a 2020 prediction from me two months before we do the prediction show.
Chad: That was my next point. What's that I smell?
Chad: Yeah, I think I smell acquisition. Yes. That's what I smell. I smell acquisition.
Joel: Feels a lot like techs recruit integrated with ISIMS or Canvas integrating with Jobvite. And what a great way to test drive a company, integrate their stuff and then make sure it works.
Chad: Yeah, guys okay, if you're a startup out there and you don't understand what the fucking recipe for acquisition is. First and foremost, pay attention. Second, it's very simple, do exactly what we're seeing here with HackerRank. Get a deep integration, prove that people want to buy your shit and then guess what? Acquisition.
Joel: Yeah. By the way, your stuff is already integrated into the motherboard.
Chad: Fucking simple. Yeah. Dude well I mean, we take a look at Canvas integration to Jobvite. But then Jobvite buys three players that are big acquisition targets. And then guess what? It was like six to nine months and they ruled out a total integration with all three of those products.
Chad: It's a shocker that it happened that fast but it obviously, again, from a roadmap's standpoint. This is one of the problems that I had with Uncommon is that they didn't focus on these tight integrations, deep integrations. This is how you get acquired or die.
Joel: Yeah. And one step further, if you are a startup that wants to be acquired, make sure you integrate with the most likely to buy you ATS.
Joel: If you're a text recruiting solution, don't worry about integrating with Jobvite or ISIMS. They've already been there, done that. Pick one that doesn't have your solution and your odds go up exponentially that you're an acquisition target.
Chad: Let's talk about a-
Joel: Jobiqo, Jobiqo, Jobiqo-
Joel: A miracleque.