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Disability Solutions

Paradox Buffet

It was feast or famine for a few companies on this week's podcast?

- Paradox ate like it was at a Vegas buffet, - Glassdoor was doing its best Oliver Twist - RPO Rumors out of Indeed - ZipRecruiter's got jokes?

- Long-term WFH LIVES at Google and Twitter ...and discussing "urban flight" within major metropolitan areas in America. Have a seat, get comfy, make a Carnival Cruise reservation and enjoy this week's show, powered by Canvas, JobAdx, and Sovren.


Disability Solutions is your sourcing and recruiting partner for people with disabilities.

James Ellis: James Ellis from the Talent Cast. You may not be aware of this, but a couple years ago I lost a bet, so now I'm contractually obligated to say nice things about Chad and Cheese. Well, I took that let's say lemon and turned it into lemonade. I took interviews from Chad and Cheese and turned it into a book, but I added a lot of other people you're going to want to talk to, it's called Talent Chooses You. It is Hiring Better with Employer Branding, and it is available on Amazon, June 15th, you should go and buy it. Bye.

SFX: Fuck the fucking fuckers.

Intro: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: Nearly 3 million Americans filed for unemployment benefits last week, translating to more than 36 million Americans filing unemployment insurance claims in the past two months.

Chad: God.

Joel: So how's your day going? Welcome to another installment of The Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host Joel Fauci Cheeseman.

Chad: And I'm Chad, get me a fucking test, Sowash.

Joel: On this week show, Paradox makes it rain. Glassdoor shows employees the door. And Twitter tells employees to stay home forever.

Chad: Hello.

Joel: We promise this show won't last forever, it'll only feel that long. Stay tuned while we pay a few bills.

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Joel: What are we in, week 12 now?

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Week 10 of lockdown. I'm losing count.

Chad: It's been a while. It's a good thing it's been kind of rainy, but it's supposed to be nice and sunny today so we can actually get out and do some work outside. Jeez.

Joel: If the calendar is right, it's May 164.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: It feels that way. It feels that way. Yeah, I could use some outdoor time. Winter seems to be lasting forever in the Midwest.

Chad: It's starting to get nicer. We'll be able to get out. So get out there people, enjoy, soak it up. I'll see you in a couple of weeks.

Joel: Just wear a mask and say, "Stay six feet away from my ass."

Chad: Yeah. Just stay the fuck away from me.

Joel: We're obviously a little off today. This lockdown must be wearing on us.

Chad: Ooh. It's definitely wearing. The Zoom fatigue, lockdown fatigue, whatever the fuck you want to call it. The three teenagers in a house with us fatigue. That's fucking fatigue.

Joel: I've been in much better spirits since the three-year-olds been in day camp for a week and a half. That's been a positive development in my world.

Chad: Yes. Good for you in day camp, that's for sure. I did want to comment, I think that the newest haircut is definitely the smartest Jeremy haircut.

Joel: So a little context for the listeners. My three year old, my wife decided he needed a haircut. I have a pair of clippers, little known fact about me I cut hair in college for a $1 or $2 a cut. Anyway, everybody had the same cut by the way. I didn't really transgress from what I knew. But anyway, the kid's hair was getting pretty long and the idea was like, let's just shave it all off. That was the initial idea. Anyway, he freaked out. So the first iteration of the cut was we kind of got the sides pretty well.

Chad: There was Joe Dirt.

Joel: Now, my wife stepped in and said, "Oh, he's crying. Let me do it. I'll be gentle, dah, dah, dah." She did some of the shaving. She mistakenly used a one guard on the side, which is shorter than the two guard that I was using. So he had some plugs near the ear. And then she decided, well, it's too long up top, so she got the scissors out, and she did sort of a Dumb and Dumber bowl on the top of the head cut like Jim Carrey. And then she ordered a new set of clippers that make no noise. And she thought that would pass the fine which it mostly did.

Chad: Okay.

Joel: He looks much better. But it's all even, and he looks like a human being now, so that's progress. Damn, we digressed, didn't we?

Chad: Dumb and Dumber meets Joe Dirt or what? But I mean, these are the trials and tribulations that we have to go through in lockdown.

Joel: I wanted the Joe exotic. I wanted to trim the sides, get some colors in there, some highlights, but the wife wasn't going for that.

Chad: Ah, thank God. Thank God. On the shout-outs, I want to give a big shout-out right out of the gate to Bill Boorman, the guy never sleeps. He's always serving a multitude of communities. Big shout-out for his efforts in feeding the homeless and all those hungry people that are out there In these trying times. He had a sample of some of those foods that he's actually posted on Facebook the other day. You also can, if you're connected to Bill on Facebook or probably on the other socials as well, provide donations so that he can continue his efforts. So if you're connected to Bill, I encourage you to donate. If you're not connected to Bill, definitely get connected. I mean, he's good people, either way, Bill Boorman, good people. Not a great comic, but he's good people.

Joel: Oh wow. That's Chad man. He reels you in with positivity and then just knees you right in the nuts. That's nice. That's nice. Well, speaking of bad haircuts, we had Death Match this past week which on video was a variety of contestants. I want to start out by saying big shout-out to the Death Match sponsor Joveo and KJ being on the judging panel. This is a TAtech event that's going down on May 19th. If you haven't registered, go to We had, Aida Fazylova.

Chad: Aida.

Joel: Aida shows up vaping. That wasn't on the video, but like a true Russian, she's smoking up before a competition.

Chad: Awesome.

Joel: Adam from Applichat, our favorite Irish Mexican is back in Ireland on his mom's couch, that was fun. Bradley Cooper out of Vancouver

Chad: Clark.

Joel: ... with Rectxt was there and Scot Sessions. Yeah, but we're calling him Bradley Cooper for comedy sake. And we might get more viewers if they think Bradley Cooper is going to be on. And Scot Sessions at TalVista. It was a lot of fun and it was a great Death Match.

Chad: Good times. Register at Again, you'll be able to see all of the pitches, the video pitches. And later on down the line we'll put them out as audio podcasts.

Joel: We don't need no stinking pitches.

Chad: We don't need no pitches.

Joel: Shout-out to Little Richard. Most of the kids out there will have no clue who Little Richard is. But the man was Prince before there was Prince. And I encourage you to go check out, wop-bop-a-loo-mop alopbom-bom Tutti frutti, oh rutti. Anyway, that was my bad imitation of Little Richard.

Chad: Horrible.

Joel: But the guy was a trailblazer and he will be missed in the world of rock.

Chad: Yes. And do you remember just last year when we were in Nashville, we actually met him in the lobby of the hotel we were in. I have a signed book, picture, all that stuff. He was in a wheelchair and he came, I went over

Joel: Where the hell was I? I wasn't there.

Chad: No, you were totally there. You're a space cadet, everybody knows that.

Joel: I have not met Little Richard.

Chad: Apparently you don't remember it, but I actually have the book and I remember. This is during staffing tech. But anyway, yeah, have the book that actually he signed last year, had a short conversation with him, was incredibly cool and hate to see ... The guy owned the 1950s. I mean, that's all there was to it. But hate to see him go, but got lucky enough to actually meet him.

Joel: That was clearly a bad week to start sniffing glue for me. I feel like I would have remembered that. Yeah, shout-out to Airbnb's talent directory. As many listeners might know, Airbnb laid off 25%.

Chad: 1800.

Joel: Decided to create a directory of everyone laid off with talent, titles, LinkedIn links, GitHub links, all kinds of stuff.

Chad: We've talked about Hilton and how they connected with CVS Health and some of these other organizations to be able to ensure that their employees had at least temporary gigs, if not full-time gigs from a transition standpoint. I mean, those brands will be embedded into those individuals lives and their brains forever. Same with Airbnb, I mean, you're cutting 1800 people. What can you do to make it easier and facilitate the process of having other companies looking for the type of talent that you're letting go, giving them access. And this is just, it's just incredibly smart. So yeah, big shout-out to Airbnb for that. I know somebody who would be positive for this Airbnb story would be James Ellis, around employer branding because that is a masterclass in employer brand, and he just wrote a book.

Joel: I think we're in it actually.

Chad: Oh yeah, I don't know. We'll have to see.

Joel: Yeah. Maybe he'll send us a free signed copy. It's called Talent Chooses You, pretty deep title. The subtitle, Hire Better with Employer Branding. We wouldn't expect anything different from our buddy James Ellis, who is the foremost expert on employer brand.

Chad: Yeah. James Ellis, Talent Chooses You, check it out on Amazon, buy it today.

Joel: Absolutely. Shout-out to LinkedIn who launched LinkedIn polls this past week. If you're keeping count, Twitter launched polls about five years ago. But LinkedIn just launched it this past week.

Chad: File that under, I don't give a fuck. Shout-out to Todd Brengel, VP, and newbie over at PandoLogic. He just wanted to comment that he's convinced that there's a correlation between their revenue forecast and the number of F bombs we dropped in their all hands call last week. So thanks Todd, I think.

Joel: Nice, nice. I'm naming my shout-out since we typically touch on lockdown guilty pleasures on Netflix and others, that if you haven't checked out The Last Dance featuring The Bulls 1998 season, Chicago Bulls basketball team, as well as basically the top three players, Pippen, Jordan and Rodman's careers. It's a fascinating look into that team, that era, it's a must see if you're a sports fan, shout-out to The Last Dance.

Chad: Google it.

Joel: Google it and watch it.

Chad: I can't believe that you're not referring to any trash TV this week. Last couple of shout-outs, Keaton Shaker, not of those shakers, head of training over at Bright Home Energy. Thanks for connecting and listening. And my last shout-out is around robot dogs patrolling Singapore parks. There's a video that shows these Black Mirror types of dogs equipped with speakers, playing a recording to remind people to social distance. So they're in the park, all these people in the park and these dogs are just roaming the park and they have these speakers reminding people, "Hey, don't forget to social distance." What's the thing going to do if I don't?

Joel: This is that Boston dystopian, I mean Boston Dynamics robot, right?

Chad: Yes it is.

Joel: They're always churning out pleasant, not scary at all robots to be our new overlords.

Chad: I would think that if there was a police officer walking beside it or something like that, might like tone it down a little bit, but no, it was all by itself just doing its thing, and it was freaky as fuck.

Joel: You ready to get to the news?

Chad: Topics.

Joel: All right. Our buddies at Paradox made it rain this week. You did the shred on it, what's the news?

Chad: 40 million dockets baby. Paradox makers of AI assistant, Olivia, announced 40 million in Series B funding led by Brighton Park Capital. They have 200 plus global enterprise clients, including McDonald's.

Joel: Your favorite.

Chad: CVS Health, Unilever, and a bunch of other ones. I mean, overall I think this says a lot with regard to conversational AI, not calling them chatbots anymore because to me it almost feels like chatbots are kind of like tactical toys. We start talking about conversational AI, we're talking about, okay, what can we do with the RPA impact, all those things. And I think overall, it's pretty amazing when you bring guys like JZ and Adam Godson in to run marketing and the overall product, you are making a statement number one. But then they get this Brighton Park money. And Mike Gregoire is the chairman of the board. And you know who Mike Gregoire is, right?

Joel: I know he's an investor.

Chad: Dude, he was the guy who took Taleo to Oracle and sold them to Oracle for $1.9 billion. That's who the fuck Mike Gregoire is, okay?

Joel: Thanks for the history lesson.

Chad: Yeah. So no understanding that not only are you bringing in the heavy hitters to be able to lead different aspects of the organization, but you're also bringing in this dude who has a ton of cash, yeah, no question, but also to be on the chairman of the board. I think just the depth of what we're seeing here from Paradox, it's pretty damn exciting.

Joel: I'm happy to hear you softening a little bit on Paradox. You were certainly bitter about the whole Alexa, McDonald's thing. It's nice to see you open up the heart and start embracing these guys to see what happens. I think that's a nice gesture on your part.

Chad: Well, if they stopped doing stupid shit, which I think they will. I think, like I said on several podcasts, if you let Adam and JZ run and just get the fuck out of their way, I mean, I think good things will happen, right? And that's a big kudos to Aaron in getting those individuals in to be able to run that organization.

Joel: Some insight from me, those historically that don't know, Aaron can raise some money. He raised a lot of money at Jobing 20 years ago, and he's doing it again. I think the fact that he was apparently able to do it in this downturn is pretty impressive. A lot of the stories that we have are about raising money. The documents were signed before coronavirus was a thing. So that's a major kudos to him for doing that. I think that the most insightful, interesting thing for me from the press release and talking to some people was the word acquisition. You rarely see press releases about getting money, where they actually say, "We're going to acquire some people." And the press release actually talked about acquisitions as part of the strategy of what they were going to use the 40 million for. So that sort of begs the question and granted Aaron is a gangster when it comes to sort of on the cheap clearance rack acquisitions.

Joel: And I've been kind of like banging my head, thinking about what could he be looking at? And I've sort of landed on the sourcing folks might be for sale really soon. I think some of the tech folks, I think he might even be able to take out some competitors in the chatbot space. I know we don't call it a chatbot, but that's still what everybody's going to call it, whether you like it or not. I think that'll be the most interesting part of the next 12, 36 months is who do they go after to add to the roles, whether it be technology, whether it be gobbling up competitors or whether it be getting some new talent into the organization to really take this thing to the next level, which I think it will do.

Chad: Yeah. And this is the market to do it in, there's no question. So having the cash to be able to turn and make those deals, it's much different today than it was last quarter, right?

Joel: Yeah. And knowing that Aaron, he's clearly raising money because not only he can, but it's a smart idea because obviously when you get burned in the past doing it, you're very careful and coordinated and calculated in what you do. I feel like this is going to be money well spent that he's raised.

Chad: Yes, he has experience, he's from this industry. He's been there, done that. The big question is, can he do it this time? I think he's setting himself up for success, there's no question.

Joel: Moving on to he might want to look for some folks from Glassdoor that were laid off late last week. Word came out in a press release reported by Business Insider, Glassdoor has laid off 30%, roughly 300 folks I think. A source that contacted me said that most of the people laid off were in the SMB sales department, as well as a lot of the international folks around the world were let go. So the other insight to that is that it looks like Indeed, no surprise here, the SMB reps from Indeed are going to be taking over some of the accounts allegedly that are in Glassdoor. And my source also said that they expect Glassdoor to start not having original content for jobs soon, but that the job content will be Indeed. And people may be able to cross-post if they want, or have some sort of an upsell to Glassdoor that's sort of uncertain at this point. But I think that the corona economy has spurred a decision to be made of like, what are we going to do with Glassdoor? Are we going to continue to burn money on that when we don't have to? And I think Indeed and Recruit Holdings is deciding that they don't have to, and they're going to start laying off Glassdoor folks, plugging in Indeed folks.

Chad: It'd be interesting to see the revenues around SMB, because obviously we saw Zip cut 40%, right. And they are very heavy on the SMB side. That's one of the big impacts that we're seeing here. Being able to reallocate resources or kind of merge some of those resources from a sales standpoint makes a hell of a lot of sense. I mean, just does from an overhead standpoint, doesn't mean that the brand's going to go away, just means that if I'm a sales guy, I have an opportunity to sell more and perspectively make more money, and that's not a bad thing. Do you think that this is the end of the Glassdoor brand or it's just a consolidation?

Joel: Yeah, I don't think it's the immediate death because of the content around employer reviews. I think as long as people still go to the site, they associate Glassdoor with finding out the nitty gritty internal, whatever about a company. They'll still go to Glassdoor. That's not going to go away, but there's no reason why the job search component can't be eliminated and just be Indeed content just like they did with workology, just like they did with Simply Hired, which both still live. They can upsell through e-commerce, they can upsell through sales folks. I think that the accounting will go away. I think the marketing will probably go away. The sales people, it looks like are starting to go away. But the actual brand and the sit will live just because it's still generating reviews and CEO reviews and all that good stuff.

Chad: Again, I think depending on the amount of revenue they're making off of jobs and just that content itself will be the clear indicator. And from a sales standpoint, if I can sell, if I'm just selling jobs on Indeed that automatically make it on to Glassdoor, that's somewhat exciting because I can say, "Oh look." But it's even more exciting if I have two products and I can go in and say, "Look, you can do this and I can double your pleasure, right? Double the fun." That to me makes more sense. But again, it depends on the kind of cash that they're pulling in from jobs on Glassdoor.

Joel: I think another interesting Insight for me is we've been talking for weeks now about a mass Indeed layoff. What an interesting strategy if someone said, "Hey, we don't have to lay off Indeed folk, and fuck with the culture and disrupt everything. Let's just lay off Glassdoor folks and then move those Indeed folks into Glassdoor opportunities or more work or whatever." I think from a strategic standpoint, it sucks for Glassdoor, but it's nice for Indeed if this is the strategy to say, "We're not going to lay anybody off. In fact, we're going to give you more work or more opportunity through this little site we have called Glassdoor."

Chad: And maybe, I don't know, create an entirely new product.

Joel: Oh, you're such a good seguest.

Chad: I'm not sure that I can get behind to be quite frank.

Joel: Yeah. You're the RPO guy, so we heard a rumor this week that Indeed has a thousand some strong workforce dedicated to building out an RPO. What are your thoughts around that? And sort of, what do you think the legitimacy to such a claim is? Because saying a thousand people are hired to build this thing out is, you got to feel pretty confident about that rumor.

Chad: Yeah. I mean, you do. And it came from a good source. I'm just

Joel: They're reputable, yeah.

Chad: Again, from my standpoint having RPO, understanding that the margins for RPO are much smaller than they are for staffing. They just shut down Prime or Seen or whatever the fuck they called it. But they just shut that down. And the margins there, and again, they're more of a transactional type of an organization. So that just fit into their groove. I didn't believe long-term that this would be what they would get into from a staffing standpoint. I thought it would be more of a technical technology that they would provide prospectively to staffing companies and obviously start taking cash off of that. But this Indeed RPO rumor really threw a curve at me because it just, to me, it didn't make sense. You have to have resources that are going to be outsourced specifically for organizations. Our source said that, well, you can tie people into RPO engagements much longer, which is true, there's no question. And it is more intimate, there's no question. But the RPOs spend a shit ton of cash with Indeed right now. There would be more resources, number one, which means more head count, which means more costs. Then they would have all of these RPOs that would say, "Okay, fuck you. I'm going home. We're going to have to do something else other than Indeed which means lost revenue." So all the way around, it just doesn't work for me.

Joel: How much impact sort of Google in this decision to frankly get into something that Google will never get into. Do you think that had much to do with the decision, assuming that that's what they're doing?

Chad: Yeah. I have no clue why they would go in this direction. Again, Prime didn't work, right? And Prime is an easier aspect. I mean, doing staffing versus RPO, they seem like they're the same, but they're fucking not. There's so much more that you have to do in RPO. And again, the margins are much thinner. Again, it just doesn't make sense to me overall, but if they are, man, I can't wait to pop the popcorn and watch what happens.

Joel: Yeah. There are a few well-funded competitors out there.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. And I assume you also think this is probably a good thing for, and that more money may flow to them in light of this.

Chad: Yeah. I think anything that Indeed does, anything that actually spreads them out and gets their laser focus out from making that product better and really focusing on the experience and getting more candidate data, and really driving the technology overall. I think that helps any of Indeed's competitors, the talent.coms and whatnot.

Joel: Yeah, I agree. Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk about staying at home.

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Chad: Staying at home.

Joel: Stay at home. Jack Dorsey, the gangster move, says, "Twitter employees can work at home forever." Google announced that employees can stay at home through the end of the year and no doubt, more and more companies big and small will be making similar statements. Your thoughts.

Chad: Yeah, I think he said that they're going to, they're probably going to open up offices in September, business travel is not going to happen. It's all canceled until whenever they open everything up. They're providing more of an allowance from their people to work at home. I think Jack Dorsey, and we'll talk about Google here in a minute, they're starting to understand that the way that we've been doing work for the last, shit, forever, is like the fifties mentality of come in, clock in, leave. Now, it might be different because you can get your orange juice for free or your PowerBar or something. But yeah, I mean, we're still working in that whole control focused environment where you have to have your butt in a seat for X amount of time. I think it's good. And I think what we're seeing is many of these organizations thought that they were going to see less productivity and they didn't.

Joel: Urban flight is sort of the term that's being bantered around. There was a story in the New York Times today entitled, Manhattan Faces a Reckoning if Working From Home Becomes the Norm. Business Insider had a story on San Francisco and the impact of people working from home in light of Twitter and Google. To me, this is one of the most fascinating stories that will play out in the next decade or two. And if you think about just five years ago, everyone was talking about moving to cities. Everyone is moving to cities. Retirees are moving to cities for the amenities. Young people are moving to cities for everything that was there. And we've done a total 180 and cities now have hanging over them, high cost of living and now a health threat, right? People in close contact with each other is currently a really bad thing. What does Manhattan look like? What does downtown Chicago look like? What does San Francisco and big cities like that look like if people stay at home in the suburbs and people escape, so to speak in the suburbs?

Joel: And I think that that trend and desire is at odds with just sort of human nature with a lot of people. Think about when you were 25. I lived in a 700 square foot apartment, right? I wanted to go to work. I wanted to socialize. I wanted to go out to the bars afterwards. I wanted to go to concerts and sporting events that were all downtown or in close proximity to where I was. Now that I'm old, working for home is not a big deal, as long as the three-year-old isn't running around. I mean, I have a home office as do you. It's not a big desire for me to sit in traffic for an hour and go to work in an office downtown. What do downtowns look like in this reality? Do you do part-time? Do young people come in and old people stay at home? I think this is a really interesting evolution with how cities and metro areas evolve in the next 10, 20 years. Speaking of popcorn, I'm going to have mine out to see how that plays out.

Chad: Yeah, I think we need to strike a balance. I mean, just trying to get in an apartment or trying to live in Manhattan or San Francisco, it's ridiculous. I mean, you could pretty much pay my home mortgage payments, probably wouldn't get me a very large apartment or space in San Francisco or Manhattan. I think there's a balance that needs to be struck. And one of the things that we're focusing too much here on is the actual city itself. I think there will be people that can pull out, but also we're thinking about the small mom and pops that are in the suburbs that will be able to gain from this, right. So will some of the businesses in downtown go away? Yes. Maybe some of the food businesses, what have you, will they pop up and will they be more prosperous in the burbs? Yes. Will companies want their younger employees in to be able to make sure that they can nurture them and they can build them and their older employees, the ones who have more experience and whatnot, out and working from home, maybe not 100% of the time, but more of the time, I think makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Chad: One of the things that we're not good at as human beings is balance. It's either here or there, we're either working our asses off or we're not working hard enough, right. There's not that balance. And I think this gives us an opportunity to really focus on that balance. It gives the cities an opportunity to, yes, they're going to wither a little bit, but when they wither, other areas will grow. And we as employers have to think about how our culture can grow out of this.

Joel: Sure. And there's the reality of once they have a vaccine for this thing, do we all go back to kissing trees and being in close proximity with each other? Human behavior says, yes, we are going to go back to the way that we were and maybe this experiment will end differently than I could imagine. But I think for now, it's a really fascinating study with how this disaster is going to impact cities around the world. Clearly as a hot zone, New York, won't be the same for a very long time, I can imagine.

Chad: Yeah, I agree. And once again, I think employers are starting to see that they don't have to really focus on the high cost of bringing your people in to these buildings when they can work from home. I mean, just the overhead that they can save and hopefully put back into the employees instead of fucking stock buybacks or some shit like that. We can start to see that the productivity is actually there. We can get what we need and we can have happier people. And if we have happier people then they stay longer, yada, yada, yada.

Joel: Yeah, fascinating changes. Let's take a quick break and hear from Sovren. And then we'll talk about that Carnival Cruise that we both booked for next month.

Chad: Oh God.

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Chad: This next one is filed under humans are stupid. And talking about, will we just go back to our old routines? Well, last week Carnival announced that some of its cruises could resume in August. And since that announcement, Carnival's bookings shot up 600%. Now that's compared to just the previous three days, right? When nobody was doing anything in the first place. But here's the big comparison, it's up, August, 2020, bookings are up 200% over August, 2019, bookings. Back when nobody was worried about death ships, right?

Joel: Right.

Chad: This is ridiculous, I mean seriously. Now, some of these people, and I know, I was actually giving a friend shit the other day, because she's already booked a Carnival Cruise or some type of cruise. But we're talking about cruises for as low as $28 a night. And I guess a floating Petri dish, if it's cheap is okay. Fuck, I don't know.

Joel: Did they talk about throwing in a free month of lockdown as part of people being sick on the boat as part of the reservation? Yeah. I think that when we look at pent-up demand for this stuff, you can't really underestimate the stupidity of people and feeling bulletproof. Obviously a lot of these people are probably young and are stupid. But August is a really quick turnaround to just get on a boat with a pandemic going on in the world.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: If it was August 2021, I could see, yeah, okay, let's roll the dice on 28 bucks a night. And we can cancel if the world is still ending at that point. But August is really early for this shit to go down. But it also goes in contrast to people, people on CNN and MSNBC were talking about, "Oh, we'll open and nobody will go because there'll be scared." Well, no, things are opening and people don't give a shit. I mean, there are scenes of bars in Wisconsin, no masks, bars open, people hugging like nothing is going on. And we're going to see a spike again and maybe people will learn at that point. Or we may just decide, you know what? Mother Nature is going to take some of us out and that's the price of being born, and we're going to move on with our lives as we always have. And damn it, that's the American way. If we're willing to do that, that's fine. As personal choices, I, myself, am going to be a lot more careful than taking cruises in August. People have the right to choose and live their lives. If they want to do it on a boat and put everyone at risk, do you outlaw that? Do you make it ... I mean, it's a tough to call for the governments, right? And by the way, Carnival Cruises, all their corporations are set up in the Caribbean and tax havens. I don't even know if they're under the same rules and regulations.

Chad: No is the quick answer. I think we also have to think about, since these cruise lines haven't been filling the skies with all plumes of smoke. Take a look at the water, take a look at the skies. I mean, everything, again, when we the human beings who seem to be the virus on this fucking planet right now, when we just have to lock down for a few months, the earth starts to heal itself. We start seeing jellyfish in Italy in the canals. Will we ever learn? And I guess the answer is no.

Joel: Mother Nature is historically a pretty strident teacher in lessons. And whether it's either war, famine or disease, nature has a way of balancing out everything on the planet.

Chad: That's what a virus will do, it'll bounce some shit out.

Joel: You're bringing me down, man. ZipRecruiter new logo joke we think happened this week.

Chad: It's got to be.

Joel: Ian, the CEO, posted in LinkedIn or Twitter, or maybe both, a mythical new logo for ZipRecruiter. That is a couch with a cat on it, which I assume is a work from home reference. The logo has not changed on their own website, which makes us think it's a joke. Although it's potentially a little tone deaf after you just laid off a lot of people, thoughts.

Chad: It has to be a joke. Yes, it would be tone deaf, but there's no way that Ian in ZipRecruiter could follow CareerBuilder, cut 40% of your people and then spend money on new branding and shit. And we saw that from CareerBuilder. I mean as soon as, one week, they chopped heads, the next week they came out with a new slogan and they were spending money on ads, on TV ads. Overall, upticks from that is shit. If I'm a company, I'm a hiring company, I don't want to be associated and/or affiliated with any organization that can do that. I hope this is a joke, because if this is real, you and Arina are having drinks somewhere.

Joel: Where the puck is going, the famous great one, Wayne Gretzky quote. Maybe this is how Ian deals with stress. Some people make jokes and laugh about stuff that's stressful. Maybe this is just his way of venting and feeling better about things. But he probably could have done it on a private network or an email to his mom or something as opposed to publicly putting it out there. But live and learn man, live and learn.

Chad: That's right. Everybody just take a deep breath right now. We're going to get through this, unless you're on a Carnival Cruise.

Joel: We out.

Chad: We out.

Chester: Thank you for listening to podcast with Chad and Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Anyhoo, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. We out.

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