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Ashby Gets Cash, Seek Pulls Out, and Hockey Hooters

Get ready for another wild ride with the Chad & Cheese Podcast! Joel Cheesman and Chad Sowash kick things off by gushing over Ronaldo and reminiscing about D-Day, because why not mix soccer and history? Shoutouts abound, from Dennis "Tupperdamis" Tupper's eerie predictions to Sweet Green's robot salad makers. 

Next up, they dive into Ashby's latest funding round, wondering if this ATS can stay the "hot chick" in a fickle market. Seek pulls out of Latin America, and Chad has some colorful memories of OCC Mexico. The guys then shred Rubio's Coastal Grill for blaming California's $20 minimum wage for their bankruptcy and eviscerating Walmart's "generous" employee bonuses.

Flight attendants are fed up, and Chad channels his inner union boss, while Joel fears the future of paid service for basic flight amenities. Finally, in the most important segment of all, an Edmonton Oilers fan's flashing antics spark a debate on the year of the boobs. Because, really, what's a podcast without some hockey Hooters? Tune in for laughs, rants, and the inevitable dad joke to cap it all off.


Joel Cheesman (00:30.955)

Yeah, two guys who love girls with new wave hairdos and hockey jerseys. Hi kids, it's the chat and cheese podcast. I'm your co host Joel Omaha cheeseman.

Chad Sowash (00:42.1)

This is Chad, let him out. So wash.

Joel Cheesman (00:45.163)

And on this episode, Ashby, more like Cashby, Seek Pulls Out, and Hockey Hooters. Let's do this.

Joel Cheesman (00:58.571)

What's up, Euro Chad?

Chad Sowash (01:00.628)

So I'm representing today, what's on the side? That's a Portuguese, that's symbol. yeah. Soccer, soccer, football.

Joel Cheesman (01:02.763)

Is that the Portuguese national official shirt?

Is is renaldo is renaldo gonna be is he done on like the national team stuff?

Chad Sowash (01:13.876)

I don't know. I don't know if he's just playing, you know, in Saudi Arabia and he'll come back later or not. I mean, I don't think we need him. We are stacked with talent.

Joel Cheesman (01:21.611)

He's, yeah, he's 39, I think. My kid loves Ronaldo. I mean, what's not to love, but like loves Ronaldo. Ronaldo and Messi are like Jesus A and B for my kid.

Chad Sowash (01:25.844)

Yeah, still really good, but I mean, yeah, yeah.

Chad Sowash (01:36.532)

Dude, if you want to see Jesus, a like Ronaldo, go to Madeira where he was actually, he was born and that entire Island, which is gorgeous by the way, is like Ronaldo heaven.

Joel Cheesman (01:39.979)


Joel Cheesman (01:50.539)

Yeah. When I'm in, we'll get to travel, but when we're in London, for rec fest, I think, I think the wife's going to try to hit the Cincinnati Miami, game, which should include, messy as, as playing. Although I think he's sort of hit or miss. Not going to be cheap, but I think there's always question of whether he'll be there or like what he's doing. So anyway, I'll be in England. I won't worry about it, but that's, that would really, make my son happy for sure. For sure.

Chad Sowash (02:06.612)

Those tickets aren't gonna be cheap. Yeah, it's gonna be cheap

Chad Sowash (02:20.436)

It is what it is. It is what it is. All right. All right. You want to jump into shout outs? Yeah, I'm good. That was the Algarve flu, which makes sure that it doesn't take you off the beach for too long.

Joel Cheesman (02:21.323)

Yeah. Yeah. You were, you were, you were sick yesterday. You good now? All right. All right. Good.

Joel Cheesman (02:35.083)

Yeah. And, and beach, beach is a good remedy for most, most sicknesses by the way. But yeah, we, we got a lot to go through. So let's get to shout out. I got quite a few and you have like one. So I'll go ahead and knock a couple out. My first one is we're, we are recording this on June 6th, which was D -Day 80 years ago. A lot of kids don't appreciate it or know it. You and I are a little bit up there in age, but for those that don't know 150 ,000 allied troops landed on Nazi occupied.

Chad Sowash (02:36.532)


Chad Sowash (02:42.996)

Vitamin D, baby.

Joel Cheesman (03:04.267)

France on this day, 80 years ago, 73 ,000 Americans, 60 ,000 British and 15 ,000 Canadians. It was the largest amphibious invasion on record and still remains. 20 ,000 Normandy residents perished during that time, which a lot of people don't talk about. A number of Germans killed, a little bit of a mystery. Most estimates put it like five to 10 ,000 Germans who died, but a credible sacrifice.

You and I are beneficiaries of the sacrifice that our grandparents made and just wanted to, yeah, the world at large for the most part. And just wanted to point that out that we are recording on a historic day and wanted to bring some, shed some light on this day, 80 years ago.

Chad Sowash (03:33.396)


Chad Sowash (03:38.868)

So is Europe. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (03:51.316)

Yeah. And if you've never been to Normandy, go. You've got to go to the beaches of Normandy. We actually took the kids a few years ago. We were doing a whirlwind tour of Europe and I had to go to Normandy. So we did. And it is awe inspiring to think of trying to actually hit those beach heads and then, you know, having fortified defenses that you can actually go in and walk in and whatnot. But having fortified defenses against you, it's amazing. So if you get a chance,

If you ever get a chance people, just travel, get the hell off the couch, go travel, go enjoy yourself and go visit places like Normandy. I mean, the cemetery there, the US, the American cemetery that is there, it'll set you back. It'll set you back. It really will.

Joel Cheesman (04:36.011)

Yeah, it's, it's, it's haunting. And I can't imagine you actually served in the military. So your perspective is much different than mine, but I, I made sure to go to the edge of the water, turn around and try to envision what it was like, with pill boxes and obviously arms coming down. All the beaches are pretty cool. Juneau and like the Canadians did a really good job. The, the artistry around, the English beach, just really cool stuff. They're all very different. Every country has sort of done their own commemorative around each one.

Chad Sowash (04:59.924)

Mm -hmm.

Chad Sowash (05:03.988)


Joel Cheesman (05:04.843)

But don't just go to one beach, try to go to all of them. A very special experience and should be on everyone's bucket list for sure.

Chad Sowash (05:11.828)

Agree and agreed. Well, we also had another special experience. We actually got to meet Dennis Tupper in the flesh at Unleashed. But my shout out goes to Dennis Tupper. This is almost an Indeed free show, kid. So this is very special. But five years ago, we recorded an episode with Dennis entitled Indeed Conspiracy Theories, where his first prediction was indeed pivoting to staffing. Yes, back in 2019.

Joel Cheesman (05:19.051)


Joel Cheesman (05:34.347)

Mm -hmm.

Chad Sowash (05:40.596)

As Joel always says, predictions aren't wrong. They just haven't happened yet. So shout out to Dennis Tupperdamis.

Joel Cheesman (05:48.971)

That's right. And here's to you, Tupper, your favorite sound bite.

Chad Sowash (05:53.972)

Ha ha!

Joel Cheesman (05:56.043)

All right. I got a couple more shout outs. One is going out to Shu -O Wang. She's the co -founder and chief revenue officer at deal who we talk about quite a bit on the show. Anyway, she is one of the newest, recipients of Forbes richest women in the world, at $850 million. She is now number 39 on the list. So shout out to her great success. And it's great seeing, women co -founders getting acknowledged on major media and.

Chad Sowash (06:13.012)


Chad Sowash (06:17.588)


Chad Sowash (06:25.908)

and our space.

Joel Cheesman (06:25.931)

fattening their bank accounts. Yes, in our space. Interesting story. She was a Chinese immigrant. Obviously we talk about immigration quite a bit. Chinese immigrant, 16, she sold scooters in high school at local flea markets. She went to MIT. She started a, I think, air, not freshener, but air purifier company called Aegis. And then she found a deal, so incredibly successful. And shout out.

Chad Sowash (06:29.876)


Joel Cheesman (06:54.347)

to her and my final shout out goes to Sweet Green, one of my favorite restaurants, Chad, because they serve up salads like nobody else's business. Just kidding. I've never set foot into a Sweet Green, although I drive past one as I go to Taco Bell on a regular basis. Yeah, anyway, so they're one of the first companies, public companies, to talk about how automation has impacted their business. They have an automated system called Infinite Kitchen.

Chad Sowash (07:10.356)

you will you ever.

Joel Cheesman (07:23.467)

that will shoot out salads and the salads, veggies, and everything that goes on the salad. sounds pretty simple, but it's made a big dent in their margins, which have increased 28%. They've increased, order accuracy and efficiency, and they actually pointed out, improved employee retention due to the new automation. So their stock has been rewarded. And as wall street typically reacts,

Every other company will want to start automating and reporting the automation numbers in their quarterly reports. So just like the year of efficiency, I predict that the year of automation is coming upon us and Sweet Greens may be one of the first companies to start that trend.

Chad Sowash (07:57.012)

Imagine that. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (08:10.324)

Yes, and I'm going to say it's the decade of efficiency because it's not going to happen just this year. It's going to be this is this is this is where we're at kids. This is what we should get used to and this should be literally the focus of all of our jobs. Number one, because if we become more efficient, we can do more right again with less, which is nice, which means we can go hit the beach. And not to mention we can possibly take a little time to go register for some free stuff at Chadcheese .com slash free. You can win craft beer.

Joel Cheesman (08:18.443)

Mm -hmm.

Joel Cheesman (08:37.995)

Never automated, never automated is the free stuff at Chattanoches.

Chad Sowash (08:40.26)

no, never automated. Not, not yet. free, free craft beer from Aspen tech labs. That's right. Our kids over at Aspen tech labs, t -shirts from Aaron app. Those lovely, lovely t -shirts, new guns and roses, feels like a hug from Chad and cheese. Thanks to Aaron app, whiskey from text kernel. One bottle from Joel, one bottle from.

Joel Cheesman (08:49.803)


Joel Cheesman (08:57.899)


Chad Sowash (09:05.684)

Chad because Tex kernel loves you twice as much as every other company that's out there. And if it's your birthday, it's rum from plum. Go to Chadcheese .com slash free and register. Mm hmm.

Chad Sowash (09:23.124)


Joel Cheesman (09:23.211)

All right, Chad, some listeners enjoying another year around the sun. This will be a mega birthday shout out because as I mentioned in last week's show, I am taking some time off to be on a beach in Vietnam and hanging out in Singapore, but celebrating another year around the sun include Karen Wong, Anders Storm and Christina Baccio, Mark Anderson, Andy Patterson, Martin Dangerfield, Scott Allen, Liz Wessel.

Kim Oelstrup, TJ Lowe, Jim Stroud, Robin Walsh, Zach Martin, Aaron.

Aaron Bosco, the shot to which I said that incorrectly, probably Olga and S Riva, J Arnold, Catherine, Henry, Jane, Kieran, super fan of our show, by the way, Eric Baker, Nicole Bowers, Katie Wagster, Linda Whitmore, Lindsay Nimar, Courtney Howard, Jamie Hartler, Roberto, Jesse Sims, Andreas Lofgren, Josh Gamble, Amy Warren, Vince Morgan, Anna Brekka, Nancy Baris Savoy, and Matt.

Chad Sowash (10:13.556)


Joel Cheesman (10:29.995)

that British guy Alder, don't call him Matt. I'll celebrate another trip around the sun. Happy birthday, everybody. And God damn it, we are getting too many fans. What are we gonna do about like, at one point our birthdays are gonna be way too crazy to talk about. I don't know. It'll be a separate podcast, like the shred. We'll just do a birthday podcast.

Chad Sowash (10:39.156)

Excellent, excellent. I got a lot of June babies. June babies.

Chad Sowash (10:51.156)

You laughed.

We'll figure something out. We'll figure something out. Events kids, RecFest, RecFest, RecFest. Nebworth is happening, that's right, Nebworth Park just north of London. Just hop on the train, you'll be right there. It's a one day event, July 11th, and today Joel, I actually got an email that said there's only 500 tickets left. And you say, 500 tickets, that's a lot. no, it's not. That shit'll go fast. So if you do not have your ticket and your team's tickets, because this is an all hands kind of thing kids, you come.

Joel Cheesman (11:07.883)

Mm -hmm.

Joel Cheesman (11:11.691)


Chad Sowash (11:23.124)

You learn together, you talk together, you meet other people in the industry, and you know you have a little drink, little libation after. You gotta come. That's on July 11th. Then in Nashville is a two -day event. That's right, we're doubling it up in the United States, September 12th and 13th. So really excited. We're gonna be on the disrupt stage in Nebworth.

Joel Cheesman (11:37.003)


Chad Sowash (11:47.796)

I think we're still working on Nashville. We're gonna be there, no questions, just what we're doing, what we're gonna be doing there. We will be doing parties, I can fucking guarantee you that. But if you haven't gotten your tickets, go to wreckfest .com, pick Nashville, pick Nebworth, pick them both, pick them both, and we'll see you there.

Joel Cheesman (11:49.131)

Mm -hmm.

Joel Cheesman (12:02.827)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, and nothing says party Chad, like Cole Cheeseman up in up in Nebworth passing out t shirts. Let's let's check on Cole. He's he's on summer break. Let's see what he's doing.

Chad Sowash (12:11.892)

Yes. Yes.

Chad Sowash (12:16.5)

Well, I and while you're and while you're talking about that and while you're talking about that I'm bringing some sexy to the show for the next couple of weeks Okay, cuz you know that Joel's not gonna be here cheese is not gonna be here So I gotta bring the sexy to the show. So the first week we are going to have Give me one second here kids as I deal with this idea with this

Joel Cheesman (12:18.283)

Jeez, jeez, he's in a bad mood.

Chad Sowash (12:44.116)

Boom, we got Maureen. Yes, she's, there we go. She's gonna be next week's co -host and then, and then guess what? Gotta do this again because stupid system. There we go, stop sharing. And then we're sharing. Thank God we have somebody to do this stuff for us.

Joel Cheesman (13:09.803)

So much complexity.

Chad Sowash (13:10.644)

And then we have another Joel coming, not a Joel Cheeseman, but a Joel. So yeah, we're gonna go ahead and we're going to have Mo and Joel, the Joel the next couple of weeks while you're out to give you a little time off, because you deserve it. I don't know if anybody's told you that or not, but you deserve it.

Joel Cheesman (13:14.699)

Joel Cheesman (13:33.707)

I know you, I know you need somebody named Joel on the podcast at all times, if, if at all possible. Yes.

Chad Sowash (13:38.804)

Yeah, and kids, if you're not watching on YouTube, you just missed all the fun stuff we just did. So go to YouTube slash at Chad Cheese and subscribe.

Joel Cheesman (13:50.635)

And, I'll, I'll book in this travel news by saying that I am unplugging for about two weeks headed to Asia, Singapore and Vietnam. So if you email me, don't expect an immediate, response. if you hate something I do, like I, like I'm out, I'm out people, podcasting isn't necessarily a job per se, but it is an ongoing.

Chad Sowash (13:58.516)

Good for you.

Joel Cheesman (14:14.283)

it does, it does take up some ongoing thought, to get this show on a regular basis. So I am excited for a couple of weeks off, not from Chad was him miss him deeply. but yeah, everybody else I'm, I'm taking some, taking some time off and I'm a little bit disappointed that I'm going to miss out on, some time with Toby Dayton. if you guys, listen to the, the monthly jobs report show, CEO from link up gives you incredible data. We dig into it like.

Chad Sowash (14:26.548)

Don't get me crying. Don't get me crying.

Chad Sowash (14:34.42)


Joel Cheesman (14:40.971)

CNBC and Bloomberg do not. So make sure that you catch that. It will just be a Chad and Toby show. I will maybe make an appearance with a guest video, but otherwise, that's, that's coming up next week. That's coming up next week.

Chad Sowash (14:51.508)


Chad Sowash (14:58.612)


Joel Cheesman (15:01.067)

Ashby more like cash be the San Francisco based ATS has raised $30 million in a series C round, bringing its total to $70 million. The company will use the funds for product development and enterprise expansion. They count companies like open door Reddit and deal. There's deal again, as clients founded in 2018, they employ 130 folks. Chad, we've seen a lot of ATS is over the years. Tell me what you think about the new kid on the block.

Chad Sowash (15:32.34)

the new kid on the block. So, I mean, in the current environment, we've talked to a ton of investors and they're all saying it's really hard to get funding unless you are angel or seed, right? So 30 million in anything past that is, that's a pretty damn good round. So there's gotta be something special about these guys. A couple of excerpts from the announcement from Benji.

Ashby's co -founder and CEO. While we have grown more than six times since our Series B and we're now serving over 1 ,300 customers, we are by no means complacent. We are continuously...

we are continuously disappointed. This was very positive and then he went to disappointed. I'm continuously disappointed by the state of software products today. Software should be more intelligent, powerful and do more for us. Today most business software is still a simple database with a few delightful and truly helpful features. So...

Where does Ashby have the advantage going into the space? Well, newer platforms are more nimble because they're not playing the heavy tech debt game.

And they're thinking about creating systems that recruiters want to be in all day. So they're thinking about the entire experience, not just the job seeker experience. Also, Ashby has integrated sourcing as a feature for targeting qualified candidates in your already paid database, right? So something we've talked about on this podcast for years, you spend all that money, you might as well have your applicant tracking system serve up candidates that already

Joel Cheesman (17:04.061)

Mm -hmm.

Chad Sowash (17:18.708)

are qualified or may have already been through the process with you before. And AI is turning sourcing as a platform into a feature. That to me, and that's what we've talked about, I think a few times on the podcast, since we started talking a lot about generative AI, a lot of these platforms are really turning around to become features. So big winners for the new investment because of integrations with AI.

into the aspects, different aspects of their platform, including sourcing and scheduling, expanding into enterprise. That's big. Talk about opening the TAM for God sakes. So yeah, I think for me, you know, we haven't heard a lot about Ashby. I think the first time we really saw them at an event was this year in at Transform in Vegas, where they were.

Joel Cheesman (17:54.955)

Mm -hmm.

Chad Sowash (18:13.3)

They were like one of the first booths you saw. They had prime space and like, these guys are actually coming along. So I think that was probably pimping and getting ready for this round.

Joel Cheesman (18:23.563)

Yep. Yep.

Joel Cheesman (18:29.579)

By the way, kids, Chad's recovering from an illness and I'm mentally on vacation already. So don't expect too much from this week's show. Anyway, the ATS market is, is a weird one. everyone hates their ATS apparently. so it's, it tends to be like a relationship that is bad and you want to get out of it. And then the instant a new thing comes along, everyone jumped ship to that new thing. You and I have been around long enough to know when iSims was cool then, job.

Chad Sowash (18:39.796)

Thank you.

Joel Cheesman (18:58.859)

job bite was cool. social media. That's awesome. smart recruiters was cool. Greenhouse was cool and has been cool for quite a while. And now comes along Ashby to be the cool new thing that everybody wants to leave their current relationship and, and jump on on Ashby. They have some really cool companies that are clients. they have to their credit raised in a way that their competitors have just a quick reminder.

Chad Sowash (18:58.868)

There we are.

Chad Sowash (19:05.716)

greenhouse lever.

Joel Cheesman (19:25.323)

Smart recruiters has raised $225 million, Greenhouse raised $110 million, and iSIMS a total of $93 million. So Ashby is not a squirt gun in a gunfight. Like they have artillery to go on a global scale and they're talking about the enterprise rollout and going more global. So I have no doubt that they will be a successful ATS. My question will be.

When does something else come along to be like, okay, Ashby's old and haggard a little bit overweight. I'm going to go jump on the next hot thing. They're going to have a hard time as everyone else has to be that cool new thing to stay with, with, with technology to be a customer service, juggernaut, because we've seen a lot of ATS has come and go in terms of the cool kid on the block. And these guys are just the newest cool kid, whether they can keep that mantle. I don't know.

The ATS business at large is, is challenged as we've talked about on the show. It's been largely commoditized. Everyone has an ATS. So how can you go above and beyond that? And they at least are doing things with AI and trying to get beyond just being an ATS, but it's a, it's a real track me and it's really challenging. their founders don't have a core competency around employment or recruitment. So I guess, that, that may be a hurdle, maybe it's a benefit, but that is something worth noting. So ultimately I would say like,

Good for them. They're the hot chick at the bar. Can they keep that title? History says they can't, but I'm open to the opportunity that they may be the hot chick for a long time. Greenhouse was, was, is still hot and has been hot for over a decade. So I think Ashby could certainly do it.

Chad Sowash (21:09.076)

Yeah, well, I think one of the things that Ashby has to beware of is that going into enterprise and those big contracts, they're going to ask you to do shit that you shouldn't do. The most powerful word in any language is no, right?

Joel Cheesman (21:24.971)

Mm -hmm.

Chad Sowash (21:26.1)

turned down the money because I remember back in the recruit soft days before they became to Leo, they had a standardized process methodology to be able to push candidates in and it was a much more nimble system even way back then because they had standards in place for all of their customers. Then they went enterprise with some big fucking companies and those companies broke the system because they asked them to do things from a customized standpoint for them that nobody else is doing. So it's going to be.

interesting. Yes, I agree 100%. I do think that we're getting to the point with the paradoxes, the fountains, the Harrys and obviously, you know, and obviously now with Ashby, where you have more flexible systems, but but

Joel Cheesman (22:05.515)

Harry's, yep.

Chad Sowash (22:14.996)

only if you say no to those those bigger contracts. I don't mean to say no to the contracts themselves, but just some of the shit that they pile onto them. So I think they've got a good chance. But not if not if they succumb to the almighty dollar.

Joel Cheesman (22:29.483)

Yeah. Yeah. And another thing I'll point out to their, to their credit is that they've grown pretty slowly and organically. I mean, their head count has increased almost a hundred percent over two years, but we haven't seen like the huge increase and then a drop and then sort of a gradual down. They are, they are organically expanding head count and seem to be doing it correctly from that standpoint.

Chad Sowash (22:36.564)

Yeah, yeah.

Chad Sowash (22:51.604)


Joel Cheesman (22:53.707)

All right. Let's talk about pulling out Chad seek Australia's recruitment leader. you could say a public company has sold its businesses in Brazil and Mexico to recruitment marketplace specialist red Arbor for $85 million USD. this move allows seek to focus on its core markets in Australia and Asia Pacific while red.

Arbor strengthens its position in Latin America. The acquisition is expected to significantly increase Red Arbor's revenue and market share in the region. Chad, grab a cold fosters and tell me your thoughts on Seek's latest pullout.

Chad Sowash (23:33.908)

So I saw OCC Mexico and I about shit. I mean, you talk about throwing back some, some memories. Cause I know Jose Jose Alvarez. Yeah. I mean, that's what they bought. That was one of the sites that they bought.

Joel Cheesman (23:39.019)

Is that still around? Is there still an OCC Mexico?

I didn't know. Okay.

Chad Sowash (23:47.764)

In the latam. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, in working with Bill Warren and OCC back in the days before Monster .com even existed, there was also an OCC Mundial, which was OCC Mexico. And that's what this is. And Andy McKelvey, which is really funny, when TMP Worldwide bought online Career Center before they bought, or after they bought Monster Board.

They had the opportunity to buy OCC Mondial, but they turned it down. So Jose just made fat cash because he was just about the only Mexican job board that was there. And whether, no matter what we think about, you know, Mexico's economy, they still have business there, right? And they still need a job board. So they were doing damn well. Anyway, anyway, that's a blast from the past. Earlier this year, Seek merged its three job boards. Seek,

Joel Cheesman (24:22.891)

Mm -hmm.

Chad Sowash (24:42.004)

Job Street and JobsDB. That's a really bad name, which will allow Seek to be more effective to reach job seekers in Asia -Pac with a lofty ambition to help 500 million connect with 5 million companies in the region. So I think this is smart.

Focus where your strengths are and lat -am is not where your strengths are. It's definitely a diversion to To to doing what you need to do and this is I believe the main reason in April seek said revenue for the full year may be slightly lower than assumed and its previous got previous guidance approximately 15 million Australian dollars, that's 10 million US dollars I cannot believe

Seek only brings in $10 million. Are you fucking kidding me? That's a little baby job board in the US. $10 million? I mean, that's a niche, niche job board in the US.

Joel Cheesman (25:34.955)

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (25:39.915)

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (25:44.171)

So job boards are challenged. We've talked about zip recruiters earnings, indeed's earnings, et cetera. Seek is not immune to the downtrend in job board stock prices. In fact, their stock is roughly down 14 % year to date. So cutting some fat, focusing on what we're good at certainly makes sense. They are hot there. In terms of Asia, they're probably the number one job board. I mean, indeed, and seek probably in those markets.

battle head to head trying to make a dent in Latin America. Just doesn't make a lot of sense culturally, strategically. It never really made sense. now it's really easy for job boards to say, okay, where can we make more money? Well, let's just open up a new market. Like that tends to be a really quick conversation and easy thing to do. but then once you get into it, getting out of it is really challenging. In fact, seek kind of took a bit of a bath.

in the sale price of this thing, losing, actually losing some money, from what they've spent on growing those markets. The surprising thing to me is that, you know, you can look at Mexico and think, eh, but Mexico is now the number one trading partner, with America. sorry, sorry, Canada.

Joel Cheesman (27:01.579)

So Mexico with the trend of, of nearshoring and getting away from, from China, and more dangerous, or more volatile markets for trade. Mexico is primed to be a major market in terms of growth, in the near future, by the way, shout out to the new president, female, which is, which is great to see, Brazil, obviously some political problems, but Brazil has been, you know, a huge market.

Chad Sowash (27:20.916)

Mm -hmm.

Joel Cheesman (27:26.763)

next year for like the last 20 years. So they can be a big thing. it also is an inroad into like Argentina, which is showing signs of, of, a lot of opportunity and growth there. So anyway, I mean, I, I understand the move on the other side of it with red Arbor, which I don't think we've ever talked about on this show. they are the number two player in those markets indeed by all accounts is the number one market. Seek was number three. So now you're taking the number two market.

player and the number three market player and creating a bigger number two. So for indeed, this is bad news. They get a bigger competitor to deal with and they get one less competitor in terms of seek. So for me, this is like, let's be smart about this. Let's focus on what we know. The economy worldwide is arguably in a, in a risky volatile place. It makes sense to focus, hopefully get your stock price up. And for red Arbor, I think it was a big win for them.

in terms of taking on Indeed in Latin America.

Chad Sowash (28:31.252)

Agreed, yeah. Clearance rack at that point.

Joel Cheesman (28:34.635)

no word of whether or not Bloomin' Onions and and Fosters were part of the deal. Let's take a quick break and talk about Workers of the World uniting.

Joel Cheesman (28:48.555)

All right, Chad, we got some big news in the world of work this year. We got three stories. Number one, Rubio's Coastal Grill. Have you ever been to a Rubio's? They're quite delicious. They have good burritos. Anyway, they're also known for its fish tacos, which I know you enjoy. They filed for bankruptcy protection in Delaware, citing the rising cost of doing business in California, underscoring the state's new $20 per hour minimum wage requirement.

Chad Sowash (28:53.364)


Chad Sowash (28:58.26)

No. Does Marco own it? I don't understand.

Chad Sowash (29:06.798)

I do.

Joel Cheesman (29:17.483)

Chad, your thoughts on this latest sob story out of California.

Chad Sowash (29:24.98)

Yeah, I mean, if you can't pay people a living wage, you don't deserve to be in business. This is a failure of leadership and not being able to effectively move with the market by evolving their business model on comparably. Yeah, I went to comparably. Rubio's leadership score is in the bottom 10 percent. And I have one prediction for this. The restaurant chain dies.

and all the amazing local non -chain fish taco trucks and restaurants flourish. $20 an hour is $41 ,600 a year before taxes if that person is working full time. If you can't afford a living wage, you don't deserve to be in business.

Joel Cheesman (29:53.899)

Mm -hmm.

Joel Cheesman (30:03.211)

full time.

Joel Cheesman (30:11.051)

this is a really sweet story. this started out as basically like a taco stand, in California, I think Southern California that eventually became what it is today. Unfortunately, it became a real shitty business. it became mismanaged. They filed for bankruptcy previously in 2020. They closed 48 locations, back then, to me. by the way, they have a hundred million dollars in debt. I don't know if I mentioned that, this is a bad business. It's badly run.

Chad Sowash (30:22.868)

And I went, corporate.

Joel Cheesman (30:41.291)

tacos are hot businesses. I don't know if you heard this or not. Like Chipotle is doing pretty well. other, other businesses that, that sell tacos and burritos and Mexican food are doing pretty well. So to me, this is like a mismanagement story. to me blaming the $20 an hour, minimum wage law requirement, is, is a smoke screen, to, to divert the real problem, which is the business and the management team and the way that the things are going.

Chad Sowash (30:45.844)


Chad Sowash (31:01.428)

weak sauce.

Chad Sowash (31:09.46)


Joel Cheesman (31:09.803)

Interesting. I wanted to quote this because I was, I was perusing X, which I know you're, you're, you're not a fan of, but there are still some interesting folks, including Mark Cuban, Mark Cuban, who yeah, Twitter, if you want to go nostalgic on me, but Mark Cuban, who most people know, tweeted a comment of someone who had reported this. and Mark said, quote, when companies pay less than what someone needs to live a basic life, it's often the taxpayers that SAP subsidize the difference. Interesting take.

Chad Sowash (31:18.708)

Yep, what do you mean, Twitter?

Joel Cheesman (31:37.995)

personally as an employer, I would rather pay a higher wage and figure out how to be more productive and profitable. Amen to Mark Cuban. I hope the folks at Rubio's ivory tower are listening because this is really a badly managed company that shouldn't be blaming $20 minimum wage on their shitty business. And from one shitty business to the Death Star Walmart.

Chad Sowash (31:55.668)


Chad Sowash (32:01.46)

Yeah, yeah, agreed.

Joel Cheesman (32:05.099)

is enhancing its employee benefits, including a new bonus plan and training opportunities for skilled trade roles. The bonus plan is based on store performance and years of experience with potential bonuses ranging from $350 to $1 ,000 annually. The company is also launching a training program for Alway workers to transition into skilled trade jobs within Walmart. Chad, your thoughts on Walmart's move.

to bonuses.

Chad Sowash (32:38.516)

Yeah, I mean, they saw attrition come down, they say, because of the opportunity to prospectively learn new skills, grow, thrive, and flourish in an organization. That just makes sense, right? But I think this is where it goes off the rails. And let's start from the top down. CEO Doug McMillan received $26 .9 million, $27 million in compensation last year. The median compensation for Walmart employees is $27 ,000.

ish thousand dollars. So yeah, good old day Doug gets paid nearly 1000 times that of an employee. The bonus plan and again, just doing the math on it, an FTE who has one to five years can earn a maximum bonus, annual bonus, $350.

And you've got to have 20 years as a full -time worker to get the max bonus of $1 ,000. How many of those do you think are out there? Anyway, so the math, 700 ,000 employees at $350 max bonus. That's $245 million. So that sounds like a lot, right? But Walmart's annual profits were $158 billion.

That's 0 .15 % of their profits. That's a fucking pittance, right? Giving somebody, you know, the couch cushion chains, right? they should be happy about that. Fuck you. The people that are actually doing the actual heavy lifting at Walmart every single day receiving a 0 .15%.

Of and that's at the max. So that's just again. This is a smokescreen wal -march trying to do the whole look We love our people thing. Fuck you. You're not paying them well Not to mention, you know, you're you're that's just a pittance of your profits. Anyway, anyway, i'm i'm i'm up

Joel Cheesman (34:32.843)

Yeah. So, so for listeners, we chat and I agree on the stories and then I write the summaries up and then I don't really know what his comments are going to be. And as I was writing this up, I was thinking he's going to be negative on this one. I know he's going to be negative on this one. So I'm glad, I'm glad that you came out with a guns blaring, on Walmart. you may not like it, but wall street does, wall street, has, has granted Walmart year to date, 26 % increase.

Chad Sowash (34:59.156)

So do the rich people.

Joel Cheesman (35:01.643)

While Target, its competitor is only up 2%. Amazon, by the way, is up 21 % year to date. Walmart also granted their average salary to store managers $228 ,000 and increasing their bonus is up to as high as 200%. These all make really great headlines, but as you, because you are you, you dig in.

You dig into the numbers, you dig into like CEO salaries, and that's why our listeners love you is that this rosy headline that we see on CNBC and Bloomberg really is kind of shitty when you pull back the curtain and really look at what it is. The good news is Rubio is laying off a lot of people, so people are going to need jobs and they're going to go to Walmart. So for every Rubio that we report on, every Walmart is rejoicing in that.

Chad Sowash (35:41.332)

Mm -hmm.

Chad Sowash (35:47.092)


I'm sorry.

Chad Sowash (35:56.692)

Hope they open a fish truck, a fish taco truck. That's what I hope.

Joel Cheesman (35:58.411)

But yeah, you know, this, this is why unions are so important because the average employee goes, I'm getting a bonus. That's cool. And then the union goes, wait a minute, you're getting screwed here because our stock is up how much and our profits are up how much and where you're only getting how much and our CEO is getting how much. So kudos to you, my friend for, as, as always pulling back the curtain and seeing what is really going on. at Walmart, I expect that your, your boycott of Walmart.

Chad Sowash (36:13.252)

Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (36:27.019)

continues whenever you're back in the States and you do your shopping elsewhere. Thanks Walmart. Assholes.

Chad Sowash (36:32.82)


Yes, yes, yes.

Yeah, well in more power to the people news American Airlines. This is from Reuters. The Association of Professional Flight Attendants, the APFA for those who love acronyms, which represents over 23 ,000 American flight attendants. 23 ,000 said on Wednesday that it unanimously rejects the latest proposal from American Airlines. The airline had offered its flight attendants immediate wage increases of 17 % in a new form.

Joel Cheesman (36:53.483)

Thanks a lot.

Chad Sowash (37:07.926)

formula for higher profit sharing in 2024 in their new contract said CEO Robert Isom. So looks like the APFA is taking a page out of Sean Fain's UAW book. What do you think?

Joel Cheesman (37:22.603)

I would agree with that. I would agree with that.

Joel Cheesman (37:29.323)

So let's stick with the stock prices, shall we? Delta Airlines up 26 % year to date. United Airlines up 31 % year to date. The airline industry is pretty good. Some airlines better than others, but in general, people are traveling more than ever before. I know you and I travel quite a bit and I know that ticket prices are not going down. Where is that money going? Pilots, machinery, et cetera, but not enough is going to the flight attend.

Chad Sowash (37:34.772)


Chad Sowash (37:53.492)


Joel Cheesman (37:59.339)

And it's who let's be honest, put up with a lot of bullshit, including from yours truly here right now. they're, they're underpaid frankly with whatever, they're making. I was shocked to find out that the, the average salary for a flight attendant in the first seven years of the job is roughly 35 ,000 per year. Let me repeat that $35 ,000 per year as a flight attendant, the max salary.

Chad Sowash (38:04.148)

god yeah.

Chad Sowash (38:20.724)

Mm -hmm.

Joel Cheesman (38:27.947)

that the old vets get maxes out roughly at $65 ,000. So this is a job that is demanding. I know it's a job that's, that's in demand cause you get to travel and everything, but clearly there is a mismatch between profits and how these companies are doing and what they're paying flight attendants. I fear that in the tradition of airlines.

Chad Sowash (38:43.412)

Mm -hmm.

Joel Cheesman (38:52.363)

They're going to make us pay for flight attendant service, just like they make, they make me pay for the luxuries that, you know, should be taken for granted. What if we get to a place where I have to pay extra for the flight attendant tenant to pay attention to me, that to bring me my pillow and to bring me my blanket. I fear that the flight companies, the airlines are going to move to this place where if you want service, you're going to have to pay for it. And I hope it doesn't get to that.

But I fear that it will otherwise it's clear that flight attendants are underpaid, underappreciated, and I'm glad that the union rejected the initial offer. And I'm glad that they're holding out for more money because from my perspective, they deserve it.

Chad Sowash (39:35.732)

Yeah. So the median wage of a flight attendant is $42 ,000. Right. So looking at that, so more on the lower end. That, this shit, 17 % is only going to take you to not even $50 ,000. Right. And the union's asking for 33%, which gets them close to $55 ,000. I mean,

Joel Cheesman (39:50.827)


Chad Sowash (39:59.86)

Okay, so again, here we're going to get to the math kids. CEO Robert Isom's made 31 .4 million in 2023, which is nearly 750 times that the average compensation for a flight attendant at $42 ,000 a year.

As I said before, there are over 23 ,000 American Airlines flight attendants. What happens if they walk off the job? I bet it would take hours, not days, not days to come to an agreement at nearly 6 ,700 flights per day. Would not be able to operate. Now, let's turn the tables real quick. How long do you think the company would operate without the CEO?

And that salary, right? Let's just say six months. Let's say you have a part -time fractional CEO. How long do you think it would go? 23 ,000 flight attendants versus one fucking CEO. You let that CEO go away for a while. Don't even tell anybody. I guarantee you that organization, 6 ,700 flights still happen every day, but not without the people who actually do the goddamn job. We are finally getting into, I feel, an area where unions are gonna gain more strength.

Joel Cheesman (40:45.003)


Chad Sowash (41:12.468)

people are going to understand for the last 40 plus years they've been fucked. And we're finally going to hopefully start targeting the sons of bitches in the ivory tower who are making crazy cash. And they might make 30 or 40 times as opposed to 750 or a thousand times that of the median wage of an employee.

Joel Cheesman (41:36.267)

By the way, we talk about automation. This is a job that will never be automated because there are federal rules around. If your flight goes down, you need a human being helping get everyone to safety, right? Like you can't come to a place where there's a robot going up and down the aisle and you, you get your, you get your Delta app and you say, yeah, I want to rum and Coke. And then the robot brings it to you. Like the robot's going to short circuit in the case of an emergency. So like, this isn't something that the airlines can automate.

They need people in those positions, just from, just from, from regulations, in the industry. So yeah. Yeah. Pay them, man. Pay them. All right. Let's take a quick break and, get to what we do best. Talk about Hooters.

Chad Sowash (42:11.828)


Joel Cheesman (42:24.427)

Call it the battle for the Stanley D cups. You like that? That that's an original. That's a Cheeseman original. An Edmonton Oilers fan. you're in Europe. I don't know. The NHL hockey playoffs have been going on and we got Edmonton in Florida and the finals. So anyway, an Edmonton Oilers fan has been offered deals for multiple adult websites after flashing her breasts during an NHL conference finals game. Have you seen the highlights of this chat? Have you seen, they're kind of making the rounds.

Chad Sowash (42:39.636)

really? okay. Okay.

Chad Sowash (42:56.916)

Yeah, I've only seen the still and I have to say if there are boobs on the internet, you're going to find them.

Joel Cheesman (43:00.583)

The videos out there anyway, it's not hard to find the offers. The offers were going to come obviously. So the offers came from the porn dude, whoever that is, and cam soda with only fans. No shocker here. Also expressing interest, getting her on the platform. The incident occurred during game five against the Dallas stars, which the oilers did when the team is now set to play the Florida Panthers.

In the final quick reminder in 2009, a Florida Panthers fan flashed her boobs and pressed them against the glass. she had really good seats, apparently. So this may turn out to be a battle of the boobs, Canada versus America. Like I'm here for it. So, let's see, let's see what happens. any more thoughts on, on the, the hockey Hooters segment of our show.

Chad Sowash (43:43.828)

Let him out. Let him out.

Chad Sowash (43:55.38)

We've said it on one of the most recent podcasts that boobs make everybody happy. Everybody loves boobs. And in a very divisive time, I say we just let them out. Just let it go, bring people together. And whether it's in Ireland through a portal or at a hockey match or on a beach, don't care.

Joel Cheesman (44:14.571)

If you want to bring people to the sport, this is a way to possibly do it. By the way, the portal update, and for a quick refresher, the city of Dublin and New York, two of the most drunkest towns in the world, decided let's have a screen showing each other what's going on. A woman obviously on OnlyFans flashed Dublin. She was rewarded with many more users of her OnlyFans account, so she's cashing in.

Joel Cheesman (44:44.203)

Word is the jury's out whether or not this Oilers fan will cash out on her obscenity at the game. But yeah, this is turning out to be the year of the boobs. And frankly, Chad, I'm here for it as I think you are too. Let's end this show as always on a dad joke. What do you get when you cross an ice hockey rink and a vampire?

Ice hockey rink and a vampire. Frostbite!

Joel Cheesman (45:17.131)

We out.

Chad Sowash (45:20.02)

So bad. We out.


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