2026 Predictions Show

2026 Predictions: Buckle the Hell Up

It’s that time again when Chad, Cheese, and Lieven crack open the crystal ball, look back at how wildly wrong (and occasionally right) their 2025 predictions were, and then recklessly fire off new ones for 2026.

From geopolitics, feeling like 1989 all over again, to AI eating white-collar jobs… then blue-collar jobs… then possibly you, this episode covers it all. Indeed tightening its grip, agencies bleeding out, robots replacing humans, executives pumping out AI slop, ghosting candidates, fake authenticity, and why “fully autonomous hiring” might be closer and scarier than you think.

Predictions are never wrong. They just haven’t happened yet. Enter at your own risk.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Joel Cheesman (00:32.682)

Yeah, the future so bright. We got to wear shades. Hey kids, it's the Chad and cheese podcast. I'm your co host Joel "Welcome to the Jungle" Cheesman.

Lieven (00:34.19)

Right.

Chad Sowash (00:41.843)

This is Chad "Party like it's 1989" Sowash.

Lieven (00:47.616)

And this is Lieven "Not been replaced by a robot yet" Van Nieuwenhuyze.

Chad Sowash (00:53.319)

yet.

Joel Cheesman (00:54.488)

And on this episode of HR's Most Dangerous Podcast. It's our prediction episode. And always remember kids, predictions are never wrong. They just haven't happened yet. Let's do this.

Lieven (01:04.622)

Yeah

Chad Sowash (01:09.299)

I feel good. Okay, Matt, every CEO should do one of these. They should. It's a, it's a 2026 calendar. These are, these are ridiculous. I love it. I love it. So how's it going boys? How's 2026? Obviously it's very sexy.

Joel Cheesman (01:10.931)

And we're back.

Little.

The wedge. Just wedge it.

Joel Cheesman (01:33.684)

it's great. It's great. Yeah. It's off to a great start. Geopolitical meltdown. Love it. Can't wait for the rest of the year.

Chad Sowash (01:40.455)

Dude, I gotta tell you, does, 2026 feels like 1989. And here's why. So for all you kids out there who watch Stranger Things, if you're a child of the 80s, you grew up in the 80s, it feels so close. You're riding the bikes. mean, and especially Midwest America, Stranger Things is like on point. Well, no spoilers, but in the finale,

Joel Cheesman (02:03.872)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (02:09.285)

Some of the kids graduate and it's 1989 and you and I Joel we graduated in 1989. I'm watching this I'm watching this on TV like it's watching my own fucking Graduation, it's fucking surreal and then I'm digging into my attic right and I find cassette tapes. Yes, I still have some of those and I

Joel Cheesman (02:15.328)

Another summer, get down, sound of the funky drummer.

Joel Cheesman (02:22.974)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (02:31.859)

from the late 80s and early 90s, which literally brought back memories of my senior year of high school, driving fast, jumping my buddy's car in the back roads of Mansfield, Ohio. I listened to Tesla and Def Leppard. But then months later after that, driving across the Bridge of Americas in Panama and Central America with a bunch of my newly formed friends, singing Youth Gone Wild from Skid Row. And then this week, this whole Venezuela thing happens and all the news outlets start talking about

Joel Cheesman (02:34.944)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (02:42.186)

Yep.

Joel Cheesman (02:49.428)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (03:01.715)

how this is like Operation Just Cause, which happened in December of 1989 in Panama when we ousted Manuel Noriega. And I was fucking there, dude. This has been the most 1989 year, other than 1989, I've ever lived in my life. It's fucking surreal.

Joel Cheesman (03:14.727)

huh.

Joel Cheesman (03:21.364)

This feels like the opening to our big booty Latina show. Panama, Venezuela, when does that tour start? Although I think we had our allies give us an okay on the Panama. I think this was a little different than that.

Chad Sowash (03:28.605)

Panama! god. One of the coolest things.

Lieven (03:32.43)

One of the things that I think we had our allies give us a long day. I think this was a little different. Yes, very good stuff. He's not taking the mic. That's such a fucking ramble. Anyway, we'll speak to our NATO allies.

Chad Sowash (03:37.169)

Yes, yes, very much so. Yeah, let's let's not dig into that. My God, they're so that that's such a fucking rabbit hole. Anyway, leave it. How's everything?

Joel Cheesman (03:45.322)

Well speaking of NATO allies, Levin, what are your thoughts on the new America?

Lieven (03:51.55)

You keep surprising me, must say. Do you remember, I think, six months ago or something, you were discussing what country are they going to attack? What kind of war is America going to launch just to distract the whole... Yeah, indeed. And then I think Joel suggested Iran or something else. I'm not sure. I don't think we came up with Venezuela. I think it was a safe bet, Venezuela.

Joel Cheesman (03:53.61)

Yeah?

Chad Sowash (03:54.033)

I know, man. Me too.

Chad Sowash (04:04.211)

Epstein.

Joel Cheesman (04:07.808)

Yep, stained, yeah.

Chad Sowash (04:17.404)

No, I don't think we did.

Joel Cheesman (04:18.527)

No.

Chad Sowash (04:21.117)

I don't think we did. I think we thought that Venezuela would definitely acquiesce and do whatever the fuck we wanted them to in the first place. So there's no reason to actually go in. I digress. Enough geopolitics. Jesus Christ. My brain's fried. Yes.

Lieven (04:21.196)

if you look back now.

Joel Cheesman (04:35.132)

it's a whole year of geopolitics. It's a whole year, man. Buckle up. Buckle up, man. Buckle up.

Chad Sowash (04:39.709)

We have predictions, lots of predictions. Go ahead.

Lieven (04:39.726)

A few months ago, when Trump was saying he wanted Greenland, we were just laughing. Of course he wants it, we're not going to sell, so no problem. But suddenly the whole military approach doesn't seem so totally unlikely as it used to be. Just imagine if he does something like that.

Chad Sowash (04:57.683)

Oof.

Joel Cheesman (04:58.368)

I we're going to make a deal Europe can't refuse. think that's what's coming for that.

Chad Sowash (05:03.475)

I don't think so. I don't think so. don't think so. breathe. Just breathe. Yeah.

Lieven (05:05.174)

Like, I don't think we like the deal. We'll see.

Joel Cheesman (05:08.704)

I don't know. We'll see. Follow the money, kids.

Lieven (05:15.913)

Anyway.

Joel Cheesman (05:17.204)

How are the holidays everybody good? What what what Swiss Mountain Ridge did leaving ski behind or what Icelandic hot hot springs did he relax in over the holidays? Nothing

Lieven (05:20.459)

Yeah.

Lieven (05:30.322)

Nothing yet. We're going skiing within two weeks. But with House of HR, by the way, we're just taking some colleagues. But no, this this holidays, Christmas is something we spend at home mostly.

Joel Cheesman (05:34.1)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (05:36.307)

very nice.

Joel Cheesman (05:44.33)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (05:44.499)

So did we ever figure out what happened in Switzerland in the Alps with the ski resort that burnt down?

Lieven (05:48.522)

in Grand Montana, that's terrible. Did it make the American use? Yeah, probably, guess. 40 young people died. It was awful. People between 14 and 17, 18 years old, mostly. It's terrible. And just because of

Chad Sowash (05:53.607)

Yeah? Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (05:54.341)

yeah.

Joel Cheesman (06:04.574)

I mean, if we don't think social media is a problem, like everyone filming the fire as they're getting, like I saw, I don't mean to laugh, but like there was a cartoon I saw with the Titanic sinking and all the people in the ocean with phones watching the Titanic, like filming the Titanic sink. just, we've lost our minds as a species. Apropos.

Lieven (06:10.263)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (06:13.073)

Yeah, do something.

Lieven (06:23.395)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (06:25.903)

apropos apropos

Lieven (06:26.314)

It's something like that. But those people didn't realize how bad it was. It was just like a strip of foam on the ceiling catching fire and it was spreading a bit. So people didn't realize how fast it would go wrong, but it did. That's awful.

Joel Cheesman (06:34.281)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (06:39.643)

Amazing. Unfortunate, unfortunate, and wow, that's horrible. Anyway, yeah.

Joel Cheesman (06:45.376)

Chad's coming to the continent permanently, leaving. Are you guys prepared for that? of out of control fires, speaking of dumpster fires, Chad's coming to town everybody.

Chad Sowash (06:49.627)

You lucky bastards.

Lieven (06:50.464)

I'm feeling safer, feeling safer already.

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (07:01.248)

shit, I can't wait.

Joel Cheesman (07:02.56)

It's gonna be a long year. It's gonna be a long year. feel like it's.

Chad Sowash (07:05.295)

It's gonna be a great year my friend. Well for some of us. Yes! Let's do that. That makes me feel better. I like freestyle.

Joel Cheesman (07:07.648)

Should we talk about free stuff? Maybe that'll make me feel a little bit better.

Lieven (07:10.21)

Free stuff.

Lieven (07:14.734)

you

Chad Sowash (07:15.975)

That doesn't make you feel better about 2026. I don't know what does.

Joel Cheesman (07:17.172)

Mm-hmm. Well.

Chad Sowash (07:22.578)

I am.

Joel Cheesman (07:45.172)

I would.

Joel Cheesman (08:23.392)

Speaking of invasions, the Scots are coming to America for the World Cup.

Chad Sowash (08:28.275)

yeah. If they let them in. If they let them in.

Joel Cheesman (08:32.232)

I don't think we have a choice. I think we have a choice. I hope the bars in New York and Boston and elsewhere are prepared for the Scottish invasion.

Chad Sowash (08:43.357)

going to brave heart their ways in, okay?

Joel Cheesman (08:45.704)

Yeah, by the way, soccer overtook baseball in America as in popularity, which I found interesting. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me as a parent of young kids because soccer's hot.

Lieven (08:51.533)

It did.

Chad Sowash (08:56.765)

Yeah, think, well, I mean, in soccer is hot in the US European football. Mainly CTE has done that for most of the population. They don't want their kids' heads bashed in. They don't want brain damage. So what do they do? Go play soccer. Go play American football, right? And there are so many teams. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (09:03.786)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (09:09.791)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (09:16.064)

Mm hmm. And the uniforms are way the way cooler uniforms too. I mean, come on, let's be honest. Baseball uniforms are not very sexy at all. Not nearly as sexy as American football. Which brings us to the season's end of fantasy football with Chad and she's sponsored by friends at factory fix. Well, we have a champion, Chad. It's not you.

Chad Sowash (09:24.051)

No, no.

Yes!

Joel Cheesman (09:42.418)

Or me, it's McKenzie Matt Dogg Maitland defeated Courtney Nappo. Nappo had only lost two games. I thought it was going to be a total steamroll in the playoffs, but Mad Dogg was not to be deterred, not undaunted, not daunted, came up with the big win. So she has a championship chain coming her way soon. She should be on the lookout for that. And LinkedIn should be warned that that picture is coming as always.

Chad Sowash (09:46.129)

Yes!

Chad Sowash (09:50.855)

Yes.

Chad Sowash (10:04.723)

Can't wait.

Chad Sowash (10:08.893)

Ha ha ha!

Joel Cheesman (10:12.288)

I love our fantasy football seasons. I hope factory fix comes back for another season next year. And I don't know, maybe leaving will put his hat in the name in the hat to play next year. I don't know. Are you big NFL fan leaving watch a lot of a lot of Patriots and Bills games.

Chad Sowash (10:15.312)

Amen.

Lieven (10:31.892)

I haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Chad Sowash (10:34.727)

Yeah. Stephen McGrath, who really represented well this year, he did a very good job. I beat him in the playoffs, but he finished sixth. So we have 12 teams. He finished sixth. He did a really, really good job. And it was funny because we've been chatting the entire season over WhatsApp and he's really, I don't want say he's gotten addicted, but he loves NFL football now. He actually bought a Bill's coat.

Joel Cheesman (10:35.584)

hahahaha

Joel Cheesman (10:41.085)

Okay, yeah, yep.

Joel Cheesman (10:45.888)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (10:54.976)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (10:59.85)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (11:04.659)

I think it was like this week. So anyway, that must be his new, his new, his new, his new, team. Yes. the Buffalo Bills.

Joel Cheesman (11:05.055)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (11:13.856)

I mean, look, it was a historic season. We had our first female winner. Steven finished higher than any other international player. And we had our first winless player. Jeremy, no wins whatsoever. Yeah, there were a lot of firsts, but a lot of embarrassing moments. And that was at the top of the list. But let's get.

Chad Sowash (11:17.843)

That's a great season. Yeah.

Lieven (11:19.357)

all

Lieven (11:27.992)

Jeremy, no win, what's

Chad Sowash (11:31.431)

Come on, Jeremy.

Lieven (11:36.302)

So in fact, it would be very interesting experiment to let me participate and see how much luck could bring me because I have no idea what this is about. I've never seen a game in my life. I don't know anything about it, but I'm sure I can beat you using AI.

Chad Sowash (11:50.563)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (11:53.204)

You almost have to try to lose every freaking game and have a roster, have a full roster. Now you can empty the team, but if you have actual players, it's pretty tough. But Jeremy, damn it, you did it. You did it, buddy. You did it. You did it. All right, let's get to, man, this is our most popular show of the year. This is our...

Chad Sowash (11:58.769)

I he, yeah. Yes.

Lieven (12:01.506)

Hmm.

Chad Sowash (12:09.319)

Congrats.

Chad Sowash (12:17.927)

Yes, everybody loves predictions.

Joel Cheesman (12:20.416)

This is our shout out or this is our prediction show. So let's get to in lieu of topics, I guess we're gonna review our 2025 home run list of predictions that we had. They were.

Chad Sowash (12:29.586)

Yes.

Chad Sowash (12:33.299)

Yeah, so the very first one, the very first one is somber because one of the biggest fans of the show, Matt Lavery, was our very first prediction for all the fans that are out there. Matt actually passed away earlier last year and we missed the hell out of him, but he still carries on with the ched and cheese tradition.

Lieven (12:44.206)

So, Mark Lavery was our very first prediction for all the fans that are out there.

Joel Cheesman (12:44.938)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (13:02.9)

I'm rooting for the Bears this weekend in honor of Matt Lavery.

Chad Sowash (13:03.037)

Prediction. That's exactly right. Yes. Yes. So his prediction was companies hiring in the hourly and entry level areas will feel pain in 2025. And feeling pain means there's not enough people to fill the roles, especially with the current administration stance on immigration, which seemed and it sounded smart, but

Joel Cheesman (13:13.792)

pain.

Joel Cheesman (13:29.642)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (13:30.675)

Even an industry genius like Matt, God rest his soul, couldn't foretell the shit storm that was happening in 2025. There was an entry level problem, but it wasn't on the supply side. So this from CNBC quote, some 76 % of employers reported hiring the same amount or fewer entry level employees in 2025 than in 2024, according to the

Lieven (13:30.99)

Even an industry genius like Matt, God bless his soul, couldn't foretell the shitstorm that was happening in 2025. There was an entry-level problem, but it wasn't on the...

This from CNBC, quote, some 76 % of employers reported hiring the same amount or fewer entry level employees in 2005 than in 2004 according to the same data. Their reasoning for less robust hiring were due to a tightening labor market, a rise of AI, and a modern...

Chad Sowash (14:00.135)

Cengage report their reasoning for less robust hiring were due to a tightening labor market the rise of AI and a broader economic pressure like inflation and new tariff policies So yes, it wasn't just immigration. It was so many different daggers that were actually thrown into the economic system Unfortunately, that was a no-go on Matt So we got he got it wrong because he didn't foresee all the shit that was gonna happen

on top of the immigration problem. Comments?

Joel Cheesman (14:33.888)

What I remember him is his Kluber Lang quote of pain in terms of predicting what's coming. see, he did predict pain correctly. We were all in a lot of pain last year. What's next?

Chad Sowash (14:38.173)

Yeah, pain. Yeah.

Yes, he did. did. Emi Baradugo. You see Emi on the show very regularly and you'll see her in 2026. She predicted that TikTok will not get banned in the US and she was right. She was right. So she get an applause or something? Do we have some sound effects? What's going on?

Chad Sowash (15:09.437)

So good one on Emmy, go figure. Go figure.

Joel Cheesman (15:10.676)

That was good.

She's always the smartest one on the show, I'll tell you. That Emmy. That Emmy B.

Chad Sowash (15:16.211)

When she's yes, when she's on, uh, next we had Lars Schmidt. Everybody knows, knows Lars. Uh, his prediction was there would be a return to in-person interviewing. here's what Gemini, Google Gemini had to say, uh, in 2025, there has been a notable recalibration toward in-person interviewing.

Joel Cheesman (15:24.255)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (15:42.013)

primarily in a defensive measure against candidates using AI to cheat during virtual assessments. However, companies are not moving away from automation entirely. Instead, they are adopting a hybrid model that uses AI for initial screening and in-person meetings for final evaluations. So I'd say Lars got it partially right. What do you think?

Joel Cheesman (15:42.164)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (15:47.348)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (16:08.733)

Thoughts? Anyone? What's happening at House of HR? What are you guys doing?

Joel Cheesman (16:11.71)

Was, I mean, he was right. He was totally right in that, like people are assholes and they're going to try to game the system and automation and AI. Like he was totally right that more and more companies are having face to face interviews to make sure that people are human. but yeah, people aren't, there's gotta be a balance of automation and humans. like the final, like, so I don't, we haven't quite figured that out yet as an industry, but, yeah, I feel like that was sort of on the border of being correct. What do think?

Lieven (16:14.262)

Thank

Lieven (16:28.907)

Nah.

Lieven (16:41.518)

At House of HR, we don't really care about people trying to cheat their way into an application. more... First, the big problem is people using AI. They tell us in perfect Dutch that they don't speak Dutch. But that's annoying when you need someone talking Dutch and they're applying, but they live in Islamabad in Pakistan or whatever, but they apply in perfect Dutch and they have seven pages of prosa I need to check here.

He never, he's never been in Belgium. Why would he be able to speak Dutch? But you can't figure it out because it seems legit. So that's a problem. We're going to need AI to defend ourselves from their AI because companies like lazyapply.com won't push on the button and you apply 76 times with 76 different versions of resume. This is problematic.

Joel Cheesman (17:22.026)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (17:29.619)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (17:31.242)

He's probably right. It's, it's robots interviewing robots and the pay model, which we may get into in the show is going to be paper hire. You don't pay for clicks. You don't pay for applicants. You'd like.

Chad Sowash (17:39.911)

Yeah, it's not for hire. It's never going to be per hire. That's bullshit. I think we start talking about per hire. mean, that's a staffing model and it's traditional and it's not evolving anything, right? It's it's it's not innovation. But I think it's important to understand that it's going to be really hard to paint these types of topics with such a broad brush. And it goes back to that kind of like the conversation on culture.

Do all companies have the same culture? No. Will all companies move away from the scale of automation back to in-person interviewing? No. Especially when companies like Zoom, who have a 55 % market share in video conferencing, buy a company like Bright Hire that will make it easier for all companies, especially SMBs, to use Zoom for interviews. Also, to gemini's hybrid comments, you will see

So many companies on the lower level for positions like entry level positions, it'll become more automated. And then as jobs become more complex and senior level, the hybrid model is going to come into play. So I think we've got to move away from these broad brushstrokes because we're going to be wrong every time. We've got to think about like frontline versus X, Y, and Z, different types of companies, manufacturing companies, whatnot. Yeah? Yeah. OK.

So Rebecca Volpeno, listener of the show, she said that 2025 is going to be the year of the robot. Gemini says, the robot says, in 2025, companies significantly increase their automation of the hiring process while simultaneously shifting more final round evaluations to in-person meetings, which is what we said before, to combat the AI assisted cheating candidates. So she was right.

Lieven (19:19.342)

.

Chad Sowash (19:34.771)

That was it. That's a big applause for her.

And I think it goes back to the hybridization conversation. Not to mention, if you take a look at the movement of SAP picking up smart recruiters, why did do that? Why did Workday pick up Paradox? Why are these big systems doing that? Because there's going to be more robots in the system. I mean, that's just going to happen. Yeah.

Lieven (19:42.254)

I'm not going to if you take a look at the movement of SHG picking up smart workers, why they do that. Why did Workday pick up Paradox? Why are these big systems doing that? Because there's going to be more of these systems.

Joel Cheesman (19:49.854)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (19:55.101)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (19:59.644)

AI.

Joel Cheesman (20:03.923)

Would you like to play a game? Speaking of the eighties.

Chad Sowash (20:06.035)

Okay, Next we have Sean Bear the CEO of fountain who said 20 20 percent. This is a big swing. Okay This is a big swing my god 20 percent 20 percent of fortune 500 companies moved to fully autonomous AI frontline hiring now he was in the frontline hiring but

Joel Cheesman (20:12.543)

Teddy bear.

Joel Cheesman (20:17.895)

I like big swings. I don't like these gray predictions. me black and white.

Joel Cheesman (20:31.817)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (20:32.819)

20 % of Fortune 500 is moving that way. Gemini says in 2025, there was no reported instance of a Fortune 500 company going fully automated, right? So that's not the case. That's not the case. But I do think fully autonomous is, right now it's a step too far, but I think we're going to get there. I think we're gonna get there.

Joel Cheesman (20:44.19)

Hmm.

Joel Cheesman (20:52.603)

Yeah, this is one of those that hasn't happened yet because Amazon basically told us we hate people and we're going full full robot.

Chad Sowash (20:57.265)

Yes. Yeah. It's going to happen just too early, Sean, too early.

Joel Cheesman (21:04.905)

too early, Sean. As always, he's always ahead of the curve. Sean is always ahead of the curve. Always.

Lieven (21:06.734)

and

Chad Sowash (21:08.455)

He's ahead of the curve. He's ahead of the curve. leaving House of HR, obviously you guys deal with people and transactions on a daily basis. You don't want to get rid of people, but you want to make it more efficient. How long do you think it's going to take for House of HR possibly to go fully autonomous with regard to like entry level hire?

Lieven (21:37.036)

And with fully autonomous you mean like a single person AI driven tamping agency, something like that. Fully autonomous.

Chad Sowash (21:43.953)

Yeah, yeah, yep, fully autonomous. And the person starts, right? Somebody applies. They go through the entire process, onboarded, show up on day one.

Joel Cheesman (21:52.444)

Show up.

Lieven (21:56.15)

I think we're already experimenting with it. This is something we're actually trying out. But, and Europe, you have the European AI Act, states that there should always be human in the loop. think we could automate everything from A to Z, but the main decisions have to be made by humans. So who is getting a job and who is not, this has to be made my human. You have to even argument why and why not. But,

Joel Cheesman (22:01.343)

I think a lot are.

Chad Sowash (22:03.666)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (22:10.959)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (22:24.482)

All the other stuff can be automated.

Joel Cheesman (22:26.909)

Leven, we're hearing news here in the States is talking about Europe deregulating or relaxing regulations in lieu of innovation. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think Europe is going to sort of loosen up the restrictions on technology? Do you think they'll continue to hold down innovation? Yeah.

Lieven (22:48.032)

We are loosening up already. And I think that's the only good effect from Trump. We are getting over here. We actually feel we need a level playing field. And if we don't loosen up, we'll just shoot ourselves in the foot. So, and I'm happy about that because I think we should be self-regulating. We don't need too many rules. We'll just try to figure it out how it can work. I guess so.

Joel Cheesman (23:02.153)

That's good.

Joel Cheesman (23:09.631)

Well, you'll probably come up with a nice balance. You won't go too far one way or the other, but yeah, I think it probably has stifled innovation to a degree in Europe.

Lieven (23:18.798)

Yeah, but we'll never be as, if you can call it free, as an open market. It will still be regulated, less strict, I hope.

Chad Sowash (23:29.115)

I think it's interesting because you take a look at China who was behind just because they didn't have the GPUs. They couldn't process the data as fast and they caught up pretty fast. So I think this whole behind thing is more fear that the big AI companies because they want more money, they need billions of money, they want open, they want no regulations, they want no guardrails. I think to me it's total bullshit.

Lieven (23:38.542)

Hmm.

Lieven (23:53.934)

Hmm.

Chad Sowash (23:58.392)

We'll see. the story still has not, the final chapter has not been written on that.

Lieven (24:03.072)

No, but just one stupid example, the Apple EarPods, it's called EarPods, right? Airport, EarPods, And they allow for simultaneous translation, but not in Europe because of GDPR. So we're not allowed to use them, but it would be very useful in Europe because of all those languages. So that's what I mean with it's sometimes regulation is contraproductive and it stops innovation because something just is not allowed and we could use it.

Chad Sowash (24:08.829)

Yeah. Earbuds. Yep.

Joel Cheesman (24:08.945)

AirPods.

Chad Sowash (24:15.397)

yeah.

Lieven (24:31.916)

And this is getting better now. think politicians are feeling we shouldn't let behind. We should follow the others, but in a more ethical way, think sometimes.

Joel Cheesman (24:43.933)

I mean, the U S is going the exact opposite direction. We have the federal government saying no state regulations, no like local. mean, it's going to be, yeah, it's going to be wild west around AI and which will impact our industry because really the local and state have been the only sort of guardrails around AI solutions and hiring. So it could be, it could be pretty messy if states can't make any laws.

Lieven (24:47.715)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (24:52.145)

No regulations, just period.

Chad Sowash (25:03.517)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (25:08.846)

Hmm. I'll see. That's not a prediction for 2026. It will get messy.

Chad Sowash (25:09.619)

at least another 30 years of that. Okay, so next one, guest prediction from Tim Meehan. He's got a couple of them, they kinda combine. Number one, will continue to treat our candidates like shit, and he's talking about talent acquisition professionals. And number two, talent acquisition will continue to be unqualified and unable to make business the business case.

Joel Cheesman (25:15.902)

Merci.

Joel Cheesman (25:21.886)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (25:35.091)

for change to the C-suite, which reflects back to number one. That's why they can't get the money to actually get better systems so that the candidates feel like they're actually being engaged and treated right. So that one is incredibly hard to quantify, although after the amount of seasons that we've done with the AI sessions, we're starting to see many companies, they understand that and they're starting to take small swaths.

Joel Cheesman (25:58.053)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (26:04.709)

out of the process and they're starting to automate that. And from a paradox standpoint, and also we heard this from smart recruiters, Alain over at Smart Recruiters, it was scheduling. Because scheduling sucks. Nobody wants to do scheduling. Nobody wants to manage scheduling for interviews. And to be able to automate that, a lot of companies did that and they saved millions of dollars. were able to just jam alone. They were able to take, it was over 120 people that were just scheduling.

Joel Cheesman (26:13.823)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (26:26.687)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (26:33.435)

and redistribute them out to the workforce to other areas. I believe it's happening. not gonna give him a, he lost it, he didn't lose it or he got it, but I think we're getting there.

Joel Cheesman (26:46.579)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (26:53.917)

The first one was kept in obvious territory. I forget what you even said, but yeah.

Chad Sowash (26:54.333)

Date him!

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, next one. We'll jump into this one. We've got so many, so many. JT, our friend JT O'Donnell on the show so many times and more to come, more to come. She said, video replaces the resume star, pretty much. Video replaces the resume. Gemini said, no.

Joel Cheesman (27:06.224)

like JT.

Joel Cheesman (27:15.465)

Hmm.

Chad Sowash (27:19.271)

Video did not replace the traditional resume in 2025. While video resumes and introductions became a prominent trend, they function primarily as a supplement to the traditional application process rather than a replacement. I believe with automation and better platforms that video will play a part, but especially in our very slow moving industry, that's not gonna happen overnight. It's just not.

Lieven (27:47.916)

and

Joel Cheesman (27:48.179)

Maybe another JT's ahead of the curve on that one. Way ahead of the curve on that one.

Chad Sowash (27:50.826)

Hahaha

Lieven (27:51.534)

But to be honest, video just takes too long. If you have to watch 30 seconds of someone introducing himself, it takes far too long. I don't like videos.

Chad Sowash (27:56.252)

It does.

Chad Sowash (28:02.355)

Yeah, I think from a resume standpoint, it's not going to be videos. mean, I think videos are going to be good for possibly interviewing, pre-screening. There are going to be reasons for them, but on the front end, there's, mean, it makes it too slow. You're 100 % right. It's just, there's too much friction there for a human to actually go through that process. We don't need it. But again, from a broad stroke standpoint,

Lieven (28:14.35)

Mm.

Lieven (28:21.964)

Mm.

Chad Sowash (28:27.975)

There might be like executive level or senior managers or something of that nature. There might be video instituted just because they want to be able to see how that person carries themselves.

Joel Cheesman (28:40.157)

I agree. Video's been a promise that has not happened for 25 years. We've been talking about it.

Chad Sowash (28:40.381)

Could be.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And the last 2025 prediction, 2025 prediction was from our friend, Steven McGrath, and he was in a shower. Go figure when he did this one. So his prediction was co-pilot will be implemented into every part of your business. And that's a big no. that was a big swing. That was a big swing. We like big swings.

Lieven (28:45.12)

No.

Lieven (29:11.758)

in

Joel Cheesman (29:12.542)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (29:12.549)

as we'd said, and yes, co-pilots have been embraced in a very formal way, but not in all departments. And if you take a look at just the Fortune 500, for the most part, it's not been formalized in all departments. So that's a big no.

Hahaha

Lieven (29:31.414)

I even think Copilot is losing now because they had a head start because IT trusts Microsoft and Copilot is Microsoft. So we're going to work with Microsoft, but it just wasn't as good as the others. So now even big corporate companies are getting away from Copilot and introducing Gemini, which today is the best, think, or Chachapiti. We started with Copilot and I had lots of discussions with my great colleague, Wilbert, who is the CIO and he...

Joel Cheesman (29:40.009)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (29:50.335)

What do you guys use at the House of HR, Levin?

Lieven (29:59.246)

was promoting Microsoft because he's in CIO. And I said, yeah, he said, Microsoft and Copilot is safe. And I said, yeah, but you're spreading false information in a safe way. Is that a good thing? Because Copilot is hallucinating so much more. So in the end, now we got along and I think we'll try to make Chatchipiti accessible to everyone. But an enterprise account on Chatchipiti is bloody expensive.

Joel Cheesman (30:02.335)

Sure.

Chad Sowash (30:22.737)

Yeah, yeah. mean, they've got to make up for the hundreds of billions and they're not going to do it that way. I think getting away from product and just saying the industry as a whole and saying large language models are, you know, assistance, let's just say virtual assistance. Obviously, it's more, it's much more pervasive and will be in 2026 than it was in 2025. There's going to be a lot of growth into it. I use a multitude of large language models in my

Lieven (30:27.778)

No.

Lieven (30:37.258)

Mm, yeah.

Chad Sowash (30:52.295)

my daily work. I see it happening. The big question is, will it be formalized? Because I know a lot of businesses, they don't want individuals within their organization just having their own individual chat GPT or using Gemini. So do you feel like they're going to, that's going to be something that is formalized and it's part of standard operating procedure. You can't use your personal, you have to use the business large language model.

Lieven (31:03.458)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (31:06.131)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (31:19.83)

Yes, and people will do whatever they want. So it's, it will be enforced, but yeah, but, no, no, but I think it would be stupid to not allow people to use the best systems they have access to. We'll see.

Chad Sowash (31:23.024)

Hahaha

Fucking humans.

Chad Sowash (31:39.377)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, they're changing so quickly. And then you see, open AI comes out and they come out on top. Next thing you see, as we were talking about trying to earlier, they were way behind. thing you know, deep seek explodes and now Gemini. mean, putting a lot of money into an open AI is one thing, but having a company like Google who is already, I mean, they're self-sustaining. They don't need funding.

from all of these other areas. mean, I think to me, they look like the winner in the end, but again, we'll see.

Joel Cheesman (32:17.708)

I mean, let's just admit the Forge 500 are all gonna use Grok. Can we just?

Lieven (32:22.958)

Yeah, because...

Joel Cheesman (32:24.991)

GROK for Enterprise is coming in 2026 everybody. Just wait.

Chad Sowash (32:30.043)

Yeah, porn for everybody, porn for everybody.

Joel Cheesman (32:34.579)

porn, bike or bars in every Fortune 500 business.

Chad Sowash (32:36.584)

You

Joel Cheesman (32:40.991)

So what are we batting like 400 at this point? 450 maybe? We're maybe a Hall of Famer in baseball. we're not that good? Okay. God, these are painful. Let's get through these reviews.

Chad Sowash (32:41.212)

Alright.

I don't think we're that good. I don't think we're that good.

Chad Sowash (32:54.451)

Yes, well, we that's the end of 2025. Now it's time for 2026. So let's go ahead and take a break. We'll come back and we've got.

Joel Cheesman (33:00.873)

Did we talk about our our what we predicted? Did we talk about you? You and me, right? Yeah, OK, look. Eurochats creeping in on chat already. Whatever dude, I don't know.

Chad Sowash (33:04.773)

we didn't? shit that's a good point. Okay well this should be fairly easy. Joel, you're number one. I know, I'm just ready if I can go. Where's a drink? Where's the beach? Your first was rippling IPOs.

Lieven (33:05.633)

Yeah!

Lieven (33:11.544)

Hey.

Mm-hmm

Chad Sowash (33:25.415)

That's a no. Yes. Yes.

Joel Cheesman (33:26.271)

I, not a prediction, not an official, but I think rippling or deal this year is their year. I know that we've given a hard time to, to Bozo and deal and they've gone through some shit, like they've raised so much. have are making so much. We're, think we're going to see space X stripe, uh, open AI. You're going to see a lot of IPOs I think this year, and it's going to be really hard for at least one of them to not say, let's just fucking let's go. Let's do this. But anyway, yes, I was wrong for sure.

Chad Sowash (33:32.499)

Mmm.

Joel Cheesman (33:55.953)

about rippling in 2025.

Chad Sowash (33:57.971)

I'm wondering what they do or if they even care about the damage that they've created to their brand or that has been surrounding their brand. And I am very, very astonished that there hasn't been a challenger brand pop in and literally just try to steal the show. We've seen Atlas in a couple of, a couple of, a couple of areas, but

Lieven (33:59.47)

I wonder what they do for a living.

Joel Cheesman (34:20.809)

That's hard.

I mean, Personio got out of the US. Personio said, we're out of here. So it must be pretty tough to make inroads. Velocity Global changed their name, which says to me that what they were doing wasn't really resonating with people. yeah, I think it's coming down to these two. mean, look, if drama was a reason to not go public, a lot fewer companies would be public, let's be honest. Like it's rarely a reason not to cash in and get some liquidity.

Chad Sowash (34:36.467)

Mm, yeah.

Chad Sowash (34:51.859)

My first of last year, we had two piece, was European startups see massive funding.

Joel Cheesman (34:53.235)

Crazy.

Chad Sowash (35:05.779)

And that was no. that was no. European startups did not see an overall increase in funding in 2025 over 2024. Yeah, that's that that's all I got to say. I got it wrong. don't know. No, I think 2026 going to be worse. I think it's going to I think it's going to take I think it's going to take another year. I mean, there's way too much chaos. There's too much uncertainty in the market right now for especially startups.

Lieven (35:16.238)

Yeah, that's all I say. get it. Money in 26? I it's gonna, no, think 26 is a reward. I think it's gonna take another year. Too much the market right now for, especially startups. yeah, mean, you're gonna see some of these, the hard part is some of these VC firms, even key, they have all this money and they have to spend this money.

Joel Cheesman (35:18.367)

Money in 26? You think it's gonna?

Joel Cheesman (35:31.263)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (35:34.167)

so yeah, I mean, you're going to see some of these, the hard part is some of these VC firms, even P they, they have all this money and they have to spend this money. Right. and it's already been a year of chaos and uncertainty. How long before the fucking damn breaks? So, can they hang on another year and then 2027 just explodes? I don't know. What do you think, leaving? What do you see in the market?

Joel Cheesman (35:51.455)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (35:58.762)

Yep. I mean, less regulation should mean maybe some more money, some more risk taking, right? Or no?

Lieven (36:06.975)

Yeah, but it's the whole global climate which isn't very good so people are bit anxious to spend too much But I do see a lot of money being invested in everything concerning AI

But it's been like that for two or three years, guess now.

Chad Sowash (36:21.811)

So slap AI on it, baby. You might get some cash. Joel's number two was, zip recruiter goes private.

Lieven (36:24.576)

Always, always.

Chad Sowash (36:35.549)

That's Big No Go.

Lieven (36:37.336)

Hahaha

Joel Cheesman (36:40.937)

They should've. They should've, but...

Lieven (36:41.378)

Hmm.

Chad Sowash (36:42.673)

yeah, and they still might, and they still might. they still might.

Joel Cheesman (36:46.111)

I got another zip. I got a zip this year again. I can't quit zip. I don't know why, but yeah, just a little teaser. Stick around. I've got a zip. One of my 26 involves zip. So stick

Chad Sowash (36:49.317)

Okay, okay. We'll leave it. We'll leave it. We'll leave it.

Lieven (36:57.666)

Hmm.

Chad Sowash (36:58.425)

and in my number two, even though from a hiring standpoint, I mean, we lost a million jobs just in the US alone. My whole thought process was, okay, well, that's where the trend is. That's what's going to happen. Programmatic ad spending is going to go flat in 2025. I didn't think it'd take a dip. I just thought it'd go flat. Nope, nope.

Joel Cheesman (37:07.059)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (37:19.731)

The global programmatic advertising market grew from 12.33 billion in 2024 to 15.68 billion in 2025. So we still saw growth, even though the job market was incredibly chaotic. So I got it wrong. I got it wrong. I got it wrong.

Joel Cheesman (37:37.48)

Yeah, you got that one wrong, didn't you? You got it. How about for next year? Do you think budgets continue to increase for programmatic? Or flat or down? You think higher? Okay.

Chad Sowash (37:46.211)

Yes, I do. think, yeah, and I think from the standpoint of why is that we're saying, and again, this is kind of like the whole flexible magic of programmatic advertising. They can charge more, right? Not to mention they've gone from CPC for the most part. A lot of people have started push over to CPA. We've got Vonq talking about CPA, you know, it's almost like the qualified side of the house plus.

Lieven (37:51.918)

And again, this is kind of like the whole flexible.

Joel Cheesman (38:00.362)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (38:14.195)

So they're going to find different ways, even though demand is lower, to charge more to be able to actually meet their goals. And it's dynamic pricing, so they can pretty much charge whatever they want.

Lieven (38:14.892)

and and

Joel Cheesman (38:21.033)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (38:26.473)

That's always fun. Yeah, it's Uber. Surge pricing on job postings, yes. All right.

Lieven (38:31.214)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (38:32.603)

Yeah, bigs. Yeah. Uber, Ubering, Ubering.

Joel Cheesman (38:37.033)

So we sucked as usual in our predictions for 2025. So you can stop listening now because everything that we say on 2026 is an absolute waste of time. Although my zip predictions pretty good. You might wanna stick around for that. All right, when we come back, we will get into those 2026 predictions with guests, as well as our own stuff. Guys, if you like what you've heard, please subscribe, share and like. It's 2026.

Chad Sowash (38:39.091)

They were entertaining.

Don't you dare. Don't you dare. It's entertaining too. Yeah, yeah, okay. Okay, okay.

Joel Cheesman (39:06.271)

2026 predictions on the Chad Cheese Podcast featuring Levin. Levin. Yes, in the, how old European does he look? The black turtleneck, the five o'clock shadow, like just poster child for coolness.

Chad Sowash (39:09.105)

Here we go.

You

Chad Sowash (39:17.097)

my god, yes. Yes. huh. Sexy. That's sexy personified right there, baby.

Lieven (39:22.296)

So.

The blue circles below my eyes, or how do you call it? Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (39:26.302)

He's.

Chad Sowash (39:29.351)

very Belgian.

Joel Cheesman (39:29.443)

I'd say you were blushing, but the red hair hides hides the red face. All right. We have way fewer guests this year, right? Chad, we got a little overkill last year. Yeah. So. Yep. So we have four. So our friend JT wanted to chime in. Without any further ado, here's your first prediction on the Chad and Cheese podcast for 2026.

Lieven (39:36.718)

Ugh.

Chad Sowash (39:38.513)

Yes. Yeah, we went crazy last year. Yeah. So I tamped it down a little bit.

Chad Sowash (41:29.401)

It is. Because it was, it was fucking creepy at points.

Joel Cheesman (41:29.471)

just might be AI generated.

Lieven (41:31.022)

Yeah, we call this fucking creepy endpoints. Speaking of 80s shit, either me or the movie, the M, with Rod Piper, where we're all surrounded by of fake people and the face of body snatchers, both being in the 80s, it's coming to fruition in favor of AI.

Joel Cheesman (41:34.816)

Speaking of eighties, Chad, do remember the, uh, either V or the movie, uh, I think it was them with rowdy, Roddy Piper, where we're all surrounded by sort of, uh, you know, fake people and, uh, they base with the body snatchers and other whole theme of the eighties was, where it's coming to fruition with, with AI. Uh, so her, her prediction is basically exec. We're going to see a lot of slop from executives. If I had to, if I had to summarize what she just said.

Chad Sowash (41:41.966)

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chad Sowash (41:49.117)

Yep, yep. Invasion.

Chad Sowash (41:56.307)

day

Lieven (41:57.198)

Prediction is basically, we're see lot of sloth from executions if I just summarize what she was saying.

Joel Cheesman (42:04.099)

I don't know if that's a good thing for companies or executives, but sure. I could see marketing teams getting all over. When can we expect the Rika slot machine leaving? Is that coming soon? Are we gonna get a lot of Rika in our TikTok feeds?

Lieven (42:06.35)

No, she likes personal attention too much to be replaced by AI. She wants to do it herself, definitely. But we do use.

Chad Sowash (42:18.835)

Rika AI? No? She said no.

Chad Sowash (42:27.411)

That's right. You be you, Rika. I love that.

Lieven (42:32.32)

We do use AI for translation from videos from Rika, for example. So we use AI, but, and it saves our time, but she's actually doing the talking herself. So it's not like it's slop, it's the real thing, but...

Joel Cheesman (42:32.767)

Let's.

Chad Sowash (42:36.541)

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (42:41.617)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we asked her about this, and here's what she said.

Lieven (42:48.238)

Yeah, that's her.

Chad Sowash (42:49.979)

Alright, next! Come on! Keep it going!

Joel Cheesman (42:52.582)

Alright, next up is our friend Amy B. who was right in 25. Let's see how she does in 26.

Chad Sowash (44:21.587)

100,000 Canadian dollars, AKA 10 US dollars.

Lieven (44:25.41)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (44:28.797)

No chance that happens in the US. Zero chance. We could give a fuck about the candidates. Europe maybe. I'll let the European take it. Is this going to be illegal, ghosting illegal in Europe?

Chad Sowash (44:31.537)

No.

Lieven (44:35.764)

No.

No, but it should be. She's right, it should be. Just from a commercial point of view is just stupid, so you punish yourself if you ghost a candidate. The punishment is a bad review on TrapAdvisor. No, on TrustPilot, sorry.

Chad Sowash (44:46.085)

Easy enough, okay, we'll see if it happens.

Joel Cheesman (44:46.994)

And what should the punishment be?

Chad Sowash (44:53.917)

Yeah, that is stupid.

Chad Sowash (45:01.427)

NPS score? Yeah, I totally get it. Totally get it.

Lieven (45:02.934)

Hmm.

Joel Cheesman (45:05.263)

No, no naughtiness in Europe. I'm gonna bookmark this as a European prediction, a non-US prediction for Emmy. Let's go to an American, Quincy, to see what our friend Quincy has in store for 2026. If you don't know Quincy, she is founder and CEO of Flockety, which is a, she's not.

Lieven (45:08.647)

Nazi.

Chad Sowash (45:24.881)

No, she's not. This is not Quincy. Quincy works for... Shit, nah, nah, I can't even think about it.

Joel Cheesman (45:31.903)

All right. Edit that shit out. Let's hear what Quincy thinks for 2026.

Chad Sowash (45:34.119)

Ha ha ha!

Lieven (47:54.766)

Thank

Chad Sowash (48:15.027)

I agree 100 % we've been talking about this for years now. Talent acquisition, talent management, why the fuck aren't they together? It makes sense. How we quantify this is gonna be a bitch, but other than that, yeah, I like it. Will it happen? We'll see.

Joel Cheesman (48:31.703)

Can you summarize it for me? kind of dozed off there.

Chad Sowash (48:34.599)

I just did talent management, one segment, talent acquisition, two segments. A lot of times they don't, they over, they cross, they don't cross their gaps. If there was one talent function that owned all of it, that that's it. So that means she's literally saying that we finally merge these, these two organizations, talent management and talent acquisition into just a one talent. And that's what we should have been doing for years.

Joel Cheesman (48:48.978)

Okay.

Joel Cheesman (49:03.039)

Quincy is so cerebral. can't keep up. Yeah, she's way too smart for this show. Way too smart for this show. Korn Ferry, yeah, that's why she works at a big company like Korn Ferry. And I'm here in my mom's basement recording a podcast.

Chad Sowash (49:07.249)

She's too smart. Yes. VP of talent transformation at corn fairy. That's it. That's close.

Lieven (49:07.31)

and

You

Chad Sowash (49:21.491)

Next who's next

Joel Cheesman (49:23.763)

Which brings us to our final guest, aside from Leaven who is a guest. Prediction from our friend Jason Putnam.

Lieven (50:06.798)

think we're talking to ourselves sometimes. Because if we look outside of a trip, for example, you look according to Garmin, only one in five packages delivers real RLIs. And just one in 50 delivers disrupted RLIs. So let's ask ourselves.

Lieven (51:28.078)

So I think it means our AI has to be more authentic.

Chad Sowash (51:31.923)

That's exactly right. Yes. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (51:33.696)

our AI needs to be more human. We need to watch an AI video of JT and not know if it's really JT or an AI, which is probably coming. But I agree there's a need to feel more authentic. We mentioned shows that we were watching. I'm watching Pluribus, which I know is a popular show. But I have a theory that the show is about AI and that I won't ruin the show, but there's a scene where

Lieven (51:36.024)

Yeah.

Yeah

Chad Sowash (51:43.731)

It's probably coming.

Joel Cheesman (52:02.057)

The main character is left alone for a period of time. And when she finally gets to reconnect with a human being, it's obvious how much she has missed a human connection. anyway, watch it. I won't ruin it for anybody, but I do agree. If my kids are unplugging, I don't see it. They're still on their phones all the time. They've totally embraced all of it. And it's part of their, I think their ethos. But all right, we'll see. We'll see, Jason.

Chad Sowash (52:05.16)

Mm?

Joel Cheesman (52:30.695)

And that is the end of our guest predictions. Chad, it's time for you, me and Leaven to drop some predictions on 2026. Are you ready? Leaven, are you ready? All right. I'm going to go first.

Chad Sowash (52:37.331)

Let's do it. yeah.

Lieven (52:42.232)

Totally.

Joel Cheesman (52:46.559)

And I like these concrete predictions. You're the writer wrong. There's no gray area here. Here it is. Okay. Indeed. Indeed made a big swing this year about basically wanting to own the whole damn thing, the whole like application process, owning all that. problem they have is the disposition data to finally like getting their hooks into ATSs and into the process. So my first prediction for 2026 is that indeed

Chad Sowash (52:49.576)

Yes.

Chad Sowash (52:55.539)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (53:12.947)

we'll start acquiring ATSs. They're just going to go right to the tree by the house and start getting all that disposition data without sort of an okay. And they're going to sell it to the people that are already using these ATSs as an add on as a feature benefit is something that's good. And 80 % of them are probably just not and say, cool, that sounds awesome. I think most likely indeed makes a call to K one.

And they say, Hey, K1, how much to let go of job by jazz, et cetera. And K1 will be more than happy because they're not going public anytime soon to say, we will sell it all for the low, price of whatever. And indeed we'll pay it. And they may actually buy another one. They may call up a Vista and say, Hey, Vista, how much for ice Ms. And then that portfolio and Vista will say, well, for the low, price of X.

Chad Sowash (53:44.179)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (54:03.653)

Indeed, you can have ISEMs. So they will at least buy one ATS of note. Could be Greenhouse. I think Ashby is probably in play. Ashby would be a big one if Indeed could get in into there. But my prediction is to get into that disposition data to really make sure that Indeed's business for the long-term is successful. They need that data and they will just say, fuck it, let's write checks and buy ATSs.

Lieven (54:03.79)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (54:12.979)

Oof.

Chad Sowash (54:29.885)

be the fastest way to litigation that they will ever find. Not to mention rats leaving the boat. I can't imagine all the companies that are like, nope, going to another ATS right now.

Lieven (54:31.406)

and

Joel Cheesman (54:37.631)

Mmm.

Joel Cheesman (54:42.399)

20 % well, I think 80 % will just be like whatever. Okay, cool.

Lieven (54:45.358)

The problem is it's not that easy to switch from ATS. It's connected to all those systems that take so much time and effort, they might even succeed.

Chad Sowash (54:51.153)

It is, it is. I know that's what they could prospectively bargain on. That's a good move and probably, yes, that's a good one. It's a very good one, yes. Yes, yes.

Joel Cheesman (54:59.571)

That's a good one, right? That's a good one to start, right? Yeah. And I'm either right or wrong on that one. There's no in-between. Indeed buys an ATS.

Lieven (55:00.982)

Nuts!

No gray zone indeed. No gray zone.

Chad Sowash (55:09.811)

And I've got my first one, which I'm entitling, There Will Be Blood, AKA Massive Agency Consolidation. You might be asking how, especially when we just heard the global programmatic advertising market grew from 12.3 billion in 2024 to 15.6 in 2025 and is estimated to continue growing. So how the hell is that going to happen, Chad?

Why are these agencies going to die? Here's how. Indeed's pressure and commission restructuring for recruitment marketing agencies will put large groups, mainly small ad agencies, out of business. The agencies who have been depending on Indeed's partnership revenues will then be betrayed by the reorganization of commissions, paying in some instances on quote unquote, only new business.

setting unrealistic goals to have their privilege of receiving commissions, instituting clawbacks, plus basically just lowering commission rates, which have already started to put these agencies in a tailspin. Last but not least, Indeed is already targeting ad agency clients for direct takeover. Indeed is drinking your fucking milkshake. Now.

Larger agencies who have diversified offerings will be able to recalibrate and weather the storm. But there are many other agencies who have not had they've not heeded history's Trojan horse lessons and went all in on Indeed. There will be layoffs or be acquisitions and there will be closures, but most will be closures as Indeed can just wait and collect smaller agency client portfolios as the doors close. In my honest opinion,

That's Indeed's plan. Apply pressure in an un-uniform fashion, different rules for different agencies, then wait for closures and scoop them up. Scoop those clients up, right? My first prediction for 2026, there will be massive amounts of agency blood spilled in 2026 by Indeed's hand.

Joel Cheesman (57:28.617)

So not acquiring agencies, which could be an also, they just wanna scoop up the skeletal remains, the remains of those businesses. Okay, all right, we're coming in hot for 2026 kids. Let's take a quick break because I'm a little tired too. Past the eggnog, I'm still celebrating the holidays. When we get back, our friend, Leaven, that's right, Leaven makes a prediction. We'll be right back.

Chad Sowash (57:31.858)

Nope.

Chad Sowash (57:35.219)

There's no reason to acquire them.

Chad Sowash (57:41.907)

You

Chad Sowash (57:54.003)

Woohoo!

Joel Cheesman (58:00.926)

Alright, we are here with our 2026 predictions. Let's go to our friend in Europe. The muscles around Brussels. Levin.

Chad Sowash (58:04.039)

leaving

Lieven (58:04.545)

and

Lieven (58:08.782)

Yeah, it is I. If you ask me, as you did, so I'm going to tell 2026 will be the year where AI is going to be coming for blue color jobs. And spoiler, I already won because, and I swear I prepared this before, but yesterday what I was going to predict has already been launched and it was 2026 who I won. But I'm going to tell it anyway for those people who missed it.

Chad Sowash (58:31.701)

no.

Lieven (58:36.396)

So until now AI has been killing mostly creative job. It has been killing white color jobs since 2022. Translator jobs are gone and copywriting jobs are gone, et cetera. But now we're getting physical AI, meaning you get AI with large language model capabilities and a physical environment and humanoid robots. And this is actually something, in my opinion, almost dangerous because robots have been around since the 1950s and they've been, they had to be programmed to do a very specific job.

Joel Cheesman (58:46.655)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (58:54.973)

Mm.

Chad Sowash (59:01.981)

Yeah.

Lieven (59:06.4)

And they only made sense for very big production companies because it was expensive to program then it was very difficult to reprogram them. So you had to have a lot, a lot, a lot of turnover. But now you have those humanoid robots, which have the dexterity and the mobility of a human. They have the power and the endurance of a machine and they have the knowledge and the unlimited learning capabilities of large language model. You put this in one very mobile bots, which can do basically anything.

Chad Sowash (59:30.077)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (59:34.638)

You can talk to the robot, can give it an order by using plain English. So they always say English is going to be the most used programming language in the world. It's already happening. So you can just say to a robot, hey, robot number one, go check if the truck has arrived yet. And if it did, get your colleague robots and empty it and put everything that's called in the fridge and the other stuff, put it on the shelves. And the robot will know what you mean and it will do it. So this actually is happening right now. And I'm sure you've all seen it.

Chad Sowash (59:55.986)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (01:00:03.252)

Boston Dynamic launched with Gemini and in collaboration with Hyundai, they are going to produce 30,000 robots, which will be multifunctional and they're going to replace humans for all kinds of blue color jobs, but not pre-programmed, just flexible. Some robot is sitting there, you can ask it to do something, it will do it. And this reminds me of back in the days when in Western Europe, industry was getting replaced to Eastern Europe because

Chad Sowash (01:00:05.447)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (01:00:05.599)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (01:00:32.238)

the labor cost in Western Europe was too high. So all those companies shut down and they reopened in Eastern Europe and then there it became too expensive and they went to India, et cetera. Now this is going to happen with robots because robots are basically very, very cheap. Once you bought them and they will be costing between 30,000 and 100,000 euros for a robot, that's not a lot, and they work 24-7, that's a problem. So I say 2026 will be blood and blue color jobs.

Chad Sowash (01:00:51.251)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (01:01:01.004)

And this is going to be a start, but then we'll see it happening all over the place. Now it's just the launching year. I'm very, very pessimistic about this whole thing, but we'll see if I'm right.

Chad Sowash (01:01:15.911)

Yeah, personally, I'm going to buy stock in Boston Dynamics after watching Atlas and knowing that Hyundai literally bought all of the robots that they're going to produce this year. Not to mention the military applications. That's where shit goes fucking off the rails. It goes off the rails, man. So in the thing that really was crazy, I'm going go back to stranger things. The Demogorgons have this hive mind thing where they can see

Lieven (01:01:20.974)

Yeah.

Lieven (01:01:32.91)

Creepy.

Joel Cheesman (01:01:34.333)

Hmm.

Joel Cheesman (01:01:41.951)

You

Chad Sowash (01:01:45.585)

what all the other ones have, these guys can too, right? So you, it's literally they're all networked together and they know what the other one's doing and they're learning from each other. It is fucking scary, dude.

Lieven (01:01:46.296)

Yes, right. Yeah.

Lieven (01:01:57.166)

That's right. Just through wifi. It's like telepathy, but it's wifi. I do something, I learn something, all the others know about it and they can do the same thing. It's amazing.

Chad Sowash (01:02:04.615)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and from a military application standpoint, you send one robot out to do recon, you've got hundreds that can see exactly what's happening through that, let's say the little dog robot or something like that, something small, and you've got all these other bigger robots that literally can just descend on wherever the enemy's at. mean, yes. Yes, yep. It's crazy.

Lieven (01:02:25.634)

Yeah, are those those little drones can just do the reckoning and all the other seats and know it and can react and it's agentics so they can they have a certain goal and they can decide for themselves how to reach it. So they can do several things, a chain of actions to get to a goal. There will be blood.

Chad Sowash (01:02:36.615)

Mm. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (01:02:43.194)

Mm-hmm. Crazy.

Joel Cheesman (01:02:45.289)

For the, for the record, call robot one Francesca. Just, think, I think you have to have that personal, personal touch with the robot. So, so little, just we've been talking about self-driving cars for a long time. We've been talking about a lot of, a lot of robotics forever. I robot who sweeps my floor at home here, just filed bankruptcy and sold to a Chinese company. So there's a, there's been a lot of talk about robotics on the employee side.

Lieven (01:02:48.987)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (01:02:53.597)

Okay, Peter.

Chad Sowash (01:02:59.325)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (01:03:15.611)

Amazon is showing you the future. Amazon is just showing you the future of what's going on with that. So I agree. yeah, robotics. It'll be interesting. But yeah, we remember the robot, the Russia robot we made fun of a few weeks ago, Chad. mean, so not not all robots are created, created equal, I'm afraid. I'm afraid. Interesting. Is it is there a specific prediction they're leaving?

Chad Sowash (01:03:17.64)

Yes.

Lieven (01:03:29.24)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (01:03:33.009)

No. Yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah.

Lieven (01:03:33.717)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (01:03:40.659)

like a number or X amount of company, like what is there specific other than just like robots are going to be a thing.

Lieven (01:03:48.79)

No, I kind of prefer the grey zones. Let me think about it, I'll come back.

Joel Cheesman (01:03:50.992)

Okay, you like the gray zone? like the gray zone? That's nothing for me. Again. I know, he's leaving.

Chad Sowash (01:03:53.905)

It doesn't matter. He's already claimed victory, Joel. It doesn't matter.

Lieven (01:03:58.956)

But I'll, yeah, I know, I know, I know. It's my safe bet. But I'll give you another one, just one sentence. I say, we'll see the first job advertisements, paid job advertisements in large language models. I think ChatGPT will be the first. So like Google AdWords, but in ChatGPT for jobs specifically. 2026.

Joel Cheesman (01:04:05.71)

okay.

Chad Sowash (01:04:16.496)

Okay, okay. Okay, interesting. Yeah, well that does that make sense or start starts taking over search. So if you take a look at my chat GBT, but take a look at Gemini, where I think this actually has better application, it's much faster because there's already search engine that's there. People are using the search engine, they start to adopt which they have the AI models and providing AI results. So I think you're right. I think this happens on the Gemini side before it does anywhere else.

Lieven (01:04:45.356)

Hmm. We'll see.

Chad Sowash (01:04:48.785)

My turn. My second and last, and we're to talk about iCIMS again. I love it. iCIMS acquires either Veritone Hire or Vonq. So as iCIMS sees Paradox go to Workday, SmartRecruiters go to SAP. They see two major potential... They see two major...

Joel Cheesman (01:04:52.339)

Give it to us, Chad.

Joel Cheesman (01:04:58.207)

Didn't have that one on my bingo card.

Lieven (01:05:05.966)

Ooh.

Chad Sowash (01:05:17.277)

potential acquirers go off the chessboard. Why? AI and automation. iCIMS is going to have to do something dramatic. And here are two reasons they acquire either Veritone Hire or Vonq. Number one, AI, go figure. Smart recruiters pivoted to an AI footing in early 2025 and they were acquired by SAP around six months later. Did smart recruiters have a fully enabled AI?

In their platform upon the acquisition talks, no, but SAP saw a more nimble player that could pretty much be their AI recruiting skunkworks inside of SAP. iCIMS buying Veritone Hire or Vonq signals to the world they are seriously embracing AI. Point number two, getting a taste of that sweet, sweet advertising revenue. Most ATS platforms don't get a taste

of recruitment marketing money, AKA programmatic revenues. Remember, that is a market approaching $16 billion just last year. iCIMS opening their TAM to a very relevant and extremely profitable segment of the market just makes sense. So both Veritone Hire and Vonq are programmatic advertising platforms in the easiest path to new revenues for greater TAM. So for those two reasons,

they will create a better footing to move iCIMS toward either IPO or make themselves more desirable to a possible acquirer in late 2026 or 2027. I believe Veritone Hire or Vonq is well positioned for acquisition and iCIMS should do that.

Joel Cheesman (01:07:10.623)

I don't know where to begin on that one. I mean, I, SIMS acquiring a private or public company in Veritone would be interesting. Okay. So they would have to, okay. So would that be good for the stock? I don't know. Cause they've, they've sort of put a lot of eggs in that basket. Um, I'm no analyst on Veritone, but that would, that would be interesting. I w I mean,

Lieven (01:07:12.408)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (01:07:18.845)

Hmm. Well, just Veritone Hire. They can actually, yes, just Veritone Hire.

Joel Cheesman (01:07:38.384)

iCIMS being the acquirer is very interesting. If we asked you like what ATS is most likely to do something big, I'm not sure iCIMS would be on the list, but it's a prediction. It's a prediction. It's very exact. You're the right or wrong. It's black and white. I like it. I like it. I don't think you're right, but I like it. I like it.

Chad Sowash (01:07:42.995)

Gotta make a move.

Chad Sowash (01:07:58.547)

There it is.

Chad Sowash (01:08:03.357)

Come on, iCIMS.