As if 2020 wasn't scary enough, Halloween is on the way, which means Cheesman's waistline is scared to death of Reese's Peanut Buttercups, but that's nothing to the horror show that is CareerBuilder.
Rumors of a massive CareerBuilder cyberattack
iCIMS gets super-cozy with Microsoft,
.jobs drama, not drama?
and Oreo commercial that'll melt the coldest of hearts (and attract the best of top talent).
You want more, greedy? Then how about a Yelp-inspired beatdown in Florida. Now that's scary!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese podcast.
Oh yeah. Halloween came early for CareerBuilder, but you still have a few weeks to put together that Beetlejuice costume. Ooh, everybody you're listening to HR's worst nightmare. I'm your cohost Joel "not Pecha" Cheeseman.
And I'm Chad "Michael Myers" Sowash.
And on this week show doc not jobs grabs that cash money, CareerBuilder, dumpster fire, the gift that keeps on giving and iCIMs and Microsoft get maybe a little too cozy. Don't open that executable file people we'll be right back.
Sovren (1m 28s):
Sovren Parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry, the more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting sovren.com, that's S O V R E N.com. We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.
Chad (1m 28s):
So Friday the 13th or Halloween, which one was your favorite?
Joel (1m 33s):
Oh, probably Friday the 13th, because nothing nothing's as entertaining as a bunch of horny teens getting stabbed to death. That's always a good scene. Yours?
Chad (1m 50s):
How about a hot Jamie Lee Curtis? I was a, I was a huge Halloween fan. I mean, Michael Myers was just scary as hell, but Jamie Lee Curtis, she was the shit.
Joel (2m 14s):
I missed Jason versus that whole, that whole movie back in the eighties. I think I was too old or too young. Everybody. That was just the money grab. But yeah, the originals of both of those are pretty stellar. Pretty stellar.
Chad (2m 24s):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a question to the listeners. What is your favorite? Friday the 13th or Halloween? Not the Rob Zombie Halloween. That was shit.
Joel (2m 28s):
Do you think that's an appropriate LinkedIn poll?
Chad (2m 32s):
Could be. That is, I think that's appropriate. Yes I do. Shout Out.
Bells (2m 37s):
Ding, ding, ding
Chad (2m 37s):
First Shout Out, goes to our friends Micole Garatti, MBA aka SocialMicole and Cory Kapner from Recruit X. They put together the HR for all Twitter discussion. I believe it's a weekly thing. I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure. Our name's popped up a couple of times this week. I just noticed on Twitter, I started getting all these, all these Twitter notifications, but thanks for the love, Nicole and Corey, everybody listening, just a search #HRforall if you want to get into the discussion,
Joel (3m 33s):
Are you sure it's Micole and not Michael or Micole Mickey, Micole. It's a weird, she should do like the MySpace thing and make the "i" a "y". So it's sort of a throwback to the OJI social media. Anyway. Shout Out for me to comedians. Goddammit. I don't know if you, if you caught the Bill Burr SNL last week, he pissed everybody off.
Chad (3m 36s):
Joel (3m 37s):
I just, I just gotta say 2020, like...
That's what he does...
Joel (3m 52s):
Let's have a laugh. Thank God for comedians, Kevin. Hart's doing good shit, Jim Carey, a lot of the old guard comedians are still doing it and we need it in 2020 more than ever. So Shout Out to comedians. Hell yeah.
Chad (3m 55s):
We do. Shout Out to Mindy Ruthenbeck over at the Mom Project and Ryan Ahmed at a Traitify, they love the podcast. Thanks for connecting and following on the socials and listening now tell all your peers, friends, and family, to do the same. They can subscribe wherever they listen to podcasts. And of course on chadcheese.com, which is going to get a facelift sometime soon. Joel,
Joel (4m 22s):
Hell yeah. More on that later kids shout out to Amman and Angela Amman burn Angela Boys in the Hood. In case you didn't know if you didn't catch that podcast, it was released this week. Go check it out in the archives at chadcheese.com, or again, like Chad said, wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Chad (4m 41s):
Also Alison Robinson, who is the CEO of the Mom Project, that podcast Entitled Corporate America Hates Mom. A Big Shout Out to Fred Goff, CEO over at Jobcase who that man has his finger on the pulse of the working class market. For all of you who don't know Jobcase, they are a social light job network for about 70% of the population. We have probably classified as working class.
Chad (5m 11s):
I'm sure Fred could give a better description than that. We're hearing the news about recovery and Fred, again, having his fingers on the pulse. He's talking about the K shape, right? Which is much different than a V-shape recovery. And, here's his quote because I think it's important for us to understand that different cohorts of people, the rich versus middle class and poor are recovering much differently.
Chad (6m 36s):
So here's Fred's quote, "the investor class is protected, just fined by the coordinated fed and treasury action." And by the way, just so everybody remembers the stock market does not reflect the economy. So again, the investor class workers are left increasingly behind, for example, Reuters reported last week, that 2000 billionaires, God, I can't believe they have that many fucking billionaires! 2000 billionaires increased wealth in 2020 by over 25% to the North of $10 trillion. Meanwhile, just a few weeks ago, the Aspen Institute estimated up to 40 million Americans may be evicted with extraordinary benefits that are going to run out. So, so kids understand that when we're talking about recovery at this point, yeah, it is scary as shit for middle-class and low wage workers. Not so much for those for those wealthy fuckers.
Joel (6m 36s):
Nothing, but a Fred G thing, baby. And in light of that, Shout Out to jobless claims we are inching back to a million. This week report outpaced numbers from what was expected. So we're getting back into that million million number, Chad time to get excited, shout out to jobless claims in the US.
Chad (6m 54s):
Again, Keisha, well, let's, let's go ahead and let's try to live this up a little bit. TalkPush took a swing this week on social media at HireVue, which I thought was hilarious. In a LinkedIn post our buddy Max Armbruster the CEO of talk post posted and here's paraphrased talk. Push now speaks to more than 10 million candidates. Every year. It took higher view, 15 years to reach 10 million candidates. It's no wonder HireVue wanted a chat bot right?
Joel (7m 26s):
That's cold man, by the way, I think Max updated his LinkedIn photo. It's like, it's like quarantine, Max in the photo, that kind of threw me off when I saw that post shout out to Fiverr. The gig economy is full steam ahead. Apparently I don't know if you've seen a fiber stock price recently, but it's done about a three X since the depths of the, the quarantine and the COVID scare in March. No fear in those guys, people are joining the platform and finding a new gig. I guess
Chad (7m 55s):
People are looking to make money any fuckingg way they can. That's what it is. Here's, here's a video that I want everybody there. Actually, it's a series of videos that I want everybody to go to YouTube and check out because it made me smile. It made me laugh and it just lightened up my entire day. So this, this little 10 year old girl named Nandi, N A N D I she's a 10 year old drummer who challenged David Grohl to an Epic drum battle. And it's turned into some of the best back and forth music content on the internet.
Chad (8m 29s):
If you haven't checked it out on YouTube, just search Nandi, David Grohl, and your welcome. This kid is amazing. She is! and David Grohl. He's just a really amazing dude. And to watch them interact back and forth, I think she's over in the UK. It's fun. Like you were talking about comedians. We need something in 2020, that's going to make us lively and laugh. And this...
Joel (8m 56s):
David Grohl is just such a national treasure, isn't he?
I love him.
Joel (9m 25s):
And speaking of "you're welcomes," beerdrop.net, everybody we're giving away a chance to get free beer on Adzuna via Chad cheese. It has its own website. Dammit. It's so important. Beerdrop.net. If you haven't been it's mobile friendly, check it out. Give us your address. We'll pick from some sort of hat, I guess. And we'll send a nice October Fest until some lucky one or this month to make 2020, just a little bit better for everybody.
Chad (9m 25s):
That's right. That's right. And a quick suggestion on Netflix and this is kind of a tease to go out and watch the documentary Capital on Netflix. And we're, we're just teasing, that because one of the, one of the people involved we might be talking to sometime soon.
Joel (9m 43s):
Yes, that's a tease. T-shirts Shout Out! Guys if you want a new Chad and Cheese, 2020 quarantine edition, t-shirt you gotta head out to Chad cheese.com/free. Again, give us your dress. We'll pick from my hat. Some lucky winners. These shirts are dope. They're suaded they're nice fitting. They even look good on me. So check it out at Chadcheese.com/free.
Chad (10m 8s):
Who doesn't want free? Beer, t-shirts? I mean come on.
Joel (10m 11s):
We're going to make 2020 a lot better coming soon. Very soon, a lot tastier.
Chad (10m 18s):
Last but not least. Don't forget. Friendly discourse is coming up. It's round two, October 27th. Holy s**t. That's coming up fast. The topic is do remote workers deserve less. Jim is going to be defending Facebook's docking employer pay when they move away from the expensive Silicon Valley or the different cities that are more expensive than moving out into the rural country, citing the cost of living adjustment. And that's where I just call bullshit. So watch the socials for all the registrations.
Chad (10m 51s):
If you're subscribed to the Chad and Cheese email list or Chad and Cheese in your pocket. Joel tell em about Chad and Cheese in your pocket.
Joel (10m 58s):
Who doesn't like a good vibration in your pocket everybody? Get Chad cheese on your phone via text. Just text the letters: cc to 833-799-0321 again. That's text: CC to 833-799-0321 again. We're building that thing up close to a hundred now! Sign up, kids get a Chad And Cheese in your pocket. You'll be glad you did.
Chad (11m 26s):
This is how we do it! Topics.
Joel (11m 30s):
Oh shit. This is a live feed from the CareerBuilder IT security department. What a dumpster fire!
Chad (11m 42s):
Seriously, dude, I was hoping not to talk to about CareerBuilder until 2021. They're stupid 300 million in three years bait and switch, press release the sale of Textkernel .
Joel (11m 55s):
They're the gift that keeps on giving Chad
Chad (11m 57s):
And then, and then this so go ahead and let's drop back into the dumpster fire. Jesus!
Joel (12m 2s):
Where to begin. So last week somebody had sent us an, a sort of an FYI that CareerBuilder site was down. I think this was Thursday or Friday before or after we recorded the weekly show. So sure enough, you went to career builder and it was down and through Friday, Saturday and Sunday, the whole site just took a shit. So then the rumors sort of started coming in by Monday morning, the letters to customers and partners started coming out from the CEO, Irina Novoselsky or whatever name is the Head of Security, IT, like we're working on this problem.
Joel (12m 41s):
I want to say by Monday, Tuesday, they had CareerBuilder, proper job search up and running, but you couldn't go to like hiring.careerbuilder.com. Then we started getting worried that all the ATSs all the sites that CareerBuilder was powering were down, out. And here we are Thursday, a week later, the job search seems to be working, but ATSs are down. Hiring is down the site. It's still down. And so what multiple sources are telling us that this was a ransomware attack. I'm no cyber security expert, but basically what happens is someone gets into your system and then puts a nice little cryptic security key to access your databases and all your good stuff.
Joel (13m 23s):
And CareerBuilder apparently paid a lot of money to get the key to the castle. And apparently what I heard, even that they had put a key on the backups.
Joel (13m 35s):
And that nothing could be accessed. So they bought the key, but shit in the database is still screwed up. Rumor has it, that they're calling up all the engineers that they fired trying to contract them, to get them to come back and like fix this shit. But it's a total dumpster fire. I mean, this, we could have seen this coming, right? Apollo came in Irene who has no business as a financial person to be head of this company, a multimillion dollar job board. They fired everyone who knew anything. And this is what happens. There's going to be firings.
Joel (14m 6s):
Chad (14m 7s):
Who are they going to fire? They fired everybody who mattered. Right?
Joel (14m 10s):
Anthony Dupree who is officially the Chief Information Security Officer. I don't know how he keeps his job and all this Lee Margaret Stall who was just promoted to Chief Product Officer probably won't be fired, but she's in the department that sort of oversees all this stuff. It's a bad situation. They're probably going to have to give refunds to a bunch of people.
Chad (14m 33s):
Yeah. They sent out a grid with the actual products, ATS job, hosting career site, talent discovery. And when they, their targeted dates of actually getting back online and then the support that was offered. And I mean, really this seriously, isn't a laughing matter, although CareerBuilder have made themselves a laughing stock with the $300 million announcement. And now not being able to address security. I mean decimating their engineering staff, their development staff, the security staff, all of this if people cannot see, especially clients cannot see that this is a burning dumpster fire, I don't know what else they need.
Chad (15m 20s):
I mean, this is ridiculous. And it's just it. I can't believe we're talking about CareerBuilder again.
Joel (15m 45s):
Well, look, businesses are built on trust, right? And you know, to a certain level, you know, I think Monster had a breach of identity theft or somebody got into the resume databases and that's, that's sort of common, but when you start losing trust in terms of your customers losing trust and your ability to stay open, to keep their own career sites open.
Joel (15m 49s):
This is so awful on so many levels. And yeah, it is, it is sad to see this happen. And I don't, I don't think you can immune Apollo from this either they've got egg on their face. I mean, they put in charge who they did. They made the decisions, that they have. It has yet to explode on, on sort of the news circuits. And we're sort of the first ones sort of talking about this. I haven't seen anybody reporting on this at all, but this is a big story. Like this should be national news kind of stuff.
Chad (16m 14s):
Yeah. You almost wonder if this is, I mean, this just means that CareerBuilder has definitely jumped the shark and they're, they're not even newsworthy anymore. Again, I can't believe we're actually talking about them, but this is big. I mean, this in itself puts the nail in that coffin.
Joel (16m 32s):
This is a multimillion dollar company that has people in charge of making sure this stuff doesn't happen and it did. And it's really, really bad. So this is an ongoing story, but it seems to be the state of state of affairs at CareerBuilder that the dumpster fire rages on.
Chad (16m 48s):
Well, let's jump into something more positive. We saw a press release that iCIMS won and HR tech award this week. And I, you know, I dove into it, I don't think that that's really that much of a big story. Although the award was around, they're snuggling up to Microsoft and remember Microsoft has a failed applicant tracking system in Talent 365, LinkedIn needs and enterprise tech strategy for talent.
Chad (17m 18s):
iCIMS has a new CEO, new coat of paint with the new items, branding and messaging. What does this feel like for you?
Joel (17m 24s):
Yeah. Well, first of all, you know, anytime you win quote, top HR product of the year, it's always a nice thing to have, but yeah, this, this integration of Microsoft and teams just sort of reeks of, I don't know, a few, if you're into baseball analogies of relationships, I mean, they're turning second at this point and headed to third. Michael Willzack...
Chad (17m 46s):
Joel (17m 48s):
Chief Strategy Officer at iCIMS in the release. Yeah, that guy, he said, quote "this partnership is based on a shared desire to transform the workplace, reinvent the hiring team experience and better embed HR into the workflow, workflow of work, sorry, uniting the communication and collaboration capabilities of Microsoft's apps with the power of the iCIMS Talent Cloud accelerates hiring and enables employers to fill open roles faster and with fewer hurdles." So there's some definite heavy petting that's going on here.
Joel (18m 19s):
And yeah, I don't think that either one of us is going to be shocked when we get the announcement that Microsoft has acquired iCIMS.
Chad (18m 27s):
Well and all over LinkedIn over the past, I don't know, a few months, we're seeing people try to compare Zoom to Teams, which one is better, you know, which one should I use? And it's pretty simple. I mean, Zoom plus Slack equals Teams and iCIMS is integrated into Teams. We're in a remote situation. Teams is amazing from a productivity standpoint. And again, trying to, trying to leverage video, trying to leverage Slack type of an environment, automated interview scheduling, receive instant feedback within Teams without having to manually request that information from hiring managers and interviewers, improve candidate experience with self scheduling capabilities, collaboration with teams to better integrate HR into the workflow.
Chad (19m 19s):
So we talked about, a few months ago, when AI for jobs integrated with Salesforce, and we said, that's big. And we had a bunch of people in the industry say, it's not a big deal. It is! When you can actually get into this kind of scale. And in iCIMS has scale in themselves. So this is a much larger story than that one. But when I, since has this kind of tech in scale and ability and the opportunity to prospectively fill a huge gap that LinkedIn and a Microsoft can't fill, tell me this isn't fucking big?
Joel (19m 55s):
By the way, you mentioned the rebranding, which I don't think you should discount for the mere fact that it's, iCIMS talent cloud. Now, if you were in the dating world, not that you are, but if you really like blonde, right, and a girl wanted to get your attention, she would sort of highlight that I'm blonde. Right? So to me, iCIMS as sort of saying like, Hey cloud, because Microsoft is all about cloud as is everybody else. So Microsoft, when they're able to say we've acquired iCIMS, most people wouldn't know what the hell iCIMS was, but now they can say iCIMS Talent Cloud, which looks a lot better to shareholders and might just boost that share prices.
Chad (20m 35s):
Well, and don't forget, Microsoft has been using iCIMS for years as their applicant tracking system. So yes, Microsoft's talent acquisition team and recruiters do not use talent 365. They use iCIMS and they have been for years. So I think again, you know, you talked about Mike Wilcheck. That dude is amazing and he's on the MNA side on the obviously acquisition side of the house, but also targets for prospectively being acquired, I'm sure.
Chad (21m 8s):
This is getting gussied up, going to the gym, getting ready for that date.
Joel (21m 14s):
By the way, LinkedIn has an ATS. I guess they're like not all that interested in what they're doing.
Yeah, Not Enterprise.
Joel (21m 18s):
All right. Let's take a break and we'll come back and talk about .jobs. Jesus
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Joel (21m 53s):
Do you have we got, we got a press release, just came across the wire. It looks like Beavis and Butthead will now be in charge of CareerBuilder because they can do a better job than what's going on right now.
Chad (22m 3s):
That's a step up. That's a step up. So you saw an article this week and you sent it my way and it was about .jobs. So what, what, what got you interested in that?
Joel (22m 14s):
Well, so you and I both have history here, Employ Media who launched .jobs back in '05,'06, somewhere around there, Cleveland based company. I was actually in some of the early meetings, as far as what we're going to do and who should, how should we market this thing? I was helping them with some SEO stuff at the time, and they've taken quite an evolution throughout the last 15 years or so of their, of their existence. And they started out as simply, Hey, we're partnered with Sherm. We're gonna, we're going to sell the .jobs domain to companies that are sort of legitimate businesses, have HR departments, et cetera, that evolved into partnering with, with your old year old organization, Direct Employers to build out 40,000, I think domains, of course, that got everybody pissed off and the job board space.
Joel (22m 59s):
And I can remember you at at an event that a Weddell put on way back in the day about San Diego, but the .jobs business model. And then I've, I've sorta lost touch since then. I know they're there. They were still selling.jobs. And I know direct employers, they were doing career sites, but I've sort of lost touch since then. And then a listener sent us this story from, I guess, a domain new site. I mean, it wasn't even an employment site talking about how.jobs and their agreement with employment or Direct Employers.
Joel (23m 29s):
Like there was a lawsuit it's been settled. We know Recruit Rooster was launched, which is sorta what the .jobs partnership was about. And that's been, that's been eliminated or terminated. So now it looks like Dodd jobs is just gonna like do sort of wholesale. Anybody can get it auction, you know, GoDaddy by .jobs for whatever, whatever you want, which is usually what happens with domains. So that was the story. You still have a pretty close relationship or I guess some connection there.
Joel (24m 2s):
So you might have some insight as well. What have you heard? Or whether on or off the record?
Chad (24m 7s):
Yeah. I don't see them doing any type of auctions. I don't see that happening anytime soon. If they did I think it'd be great, but I just don't see Employee Media doing that. They can. It's in their agreement. They actually went to court against I can to be able to make it happen. And so they can do it. They just they're, they're just deciding not to. When you say
Joel (24m 30s):
The auction, you mean they're not going, they won't make .jobs available to anybody.
Chad (24m 34s):
Yeah. Not just anybody. Yeah, they there's. Okay. So think of it this way: edu is very restrictive in how you get an .edu and .com is not restrictive at all. Anybody can have a fucking .com. .jobs lands in about the middle. There are some restrictions, but it's not as tight as .edu, and it's not as loose as .com. So you have to meet the criteria you can always request to have a.jobs domain, but it doesn't mean that you're going to get it.
Joel (25m 3s):
They go in and sort of, there's a manual process of like, who are you? And does this make sense? Are your, are you a legitimate organization? And then they release it if they deem necessary,
Chad (25m 14s):
It's to be a trusted space on the internet, they don't just want anybody having one of their domains. They want to make sure that they're...
Joel (25m 22s):
The original idea from what, what you understand.
Chad (25m 26s):
I don't think any of that's changed at all. And people actually buying it versus what we did at Direct Employers in concert of putting tech underneath the domains and doing that with Employing Media. So I don't think any of that's changed. I do think that there is an opportunity. We talked about LinkedIn a little bit earlier, and I was thinking, you know, who has the brand power and money to prospectively leverage something like this? And I would think of LinkedIn and Microsoft cause being is pretty much worthless compared to Google, what could Bing, do to be able to do something different, to be able to try to gain market, share away from Google and how could LinkedIn use these, these different domains to do the same kind of thing?
Chad (26m 12s):
So I think that type of brand power could do something, but you know, something that is, you know, kind of like lower shelf, like direct employers, it was a great idea. It was a great concept. It was fun! It was great experiment, but just not enough power.
Joel (26m 26s):
Yeah. Bing has Bing for jobs, but it's all LinkedIn postings. So they actually do, do it, but it doesn't have a broad reach of, you know, value to people. So the numbers around this, I didn't under, I didn't know. So the story that was shared about the domain said basically like they had sold 8,000. Yeah.
Chad (26m 46s):
I think it was in 2010. That was what the numbers were.