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Deel Acquires, Nomad Expands & Cyber Attacks

Independence Day is upon us and this week’s show is more exciting than an alien invasion, minus the Will Smith. It’s full of tragedy: 27 states’ employment websites have suffered a cyber attack. It’s got takeovers: Deel acquires a foothold in APAC. Lives being saved: Nomad Health grows its healthcare pie to empower nurses nationwide. Cash money: Pave hopes to bring salary management to a global workforce. It’s even got nuclear-powered hotel flights and some Josh Bersin bashing (Chad’s favorite). You’re welcome.

Commence the fireworks and chill the PBR!


INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (22s):

Oh yeah. Recording from the cold and flu wing from Casa de CAISO. Someone grabbed me a box of Kleenex. Hey boys and girls, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your co-host Joel "pass the NyQuil" Cheeseman.

Chad (37s):

This is Chad "spirit in the sky" Sowash.

Joel (40s):

And on this week's show wandering nurses strike gold. Gloat makes a move to be the GOAT and Deel is making deals. Let's do this. What's up Chad?

Chad (51s):

Dude, it's July!

Joel (52s):

It's July and I've got a cold. What's up with that? My kid, that kids are basically centers for disease that spread around the house. And, I have been struck by a cold but I'm optimistic that it'll be gone by the time we go to Europe next week.

Chad (1m 7s):

So let's all hope you can always double mask for that eight hour flight.

Joel (1m 12s):

Europe's got the good over the counter drugs. So if I'm still sick by Europe, I'll just hit up the drug store and be good to go.

Chad (1m 21s):

We found an allergy medicine in France and can't get it here in the US so we had to get it mailed from France to the US because we just can't find it here. It's not made here, you know, but anyway, yeah, we get a big box of it sent because it works fucking miracles. And it's not really medicine as much as it is a natural, but it's, it's interesting that you can't find it here. And how much of a pain in the ass is just to be able to get that kind of meds/vitamins over here.

Joel (1m 56s):

Oh yeah. Whenever the wife and I head north to Canada, we always a horde, some of the best meds that we'd get in Canada or we'll have her parents, you know, bring down the NeoCitran in case we can't get up to Canada anytime soon. But yeah,

Chad (2m 10s):

Careful. You're stepping over the bounds of socialism there. My God.

Joel (2m 14s):

Okay. I pay for it. It's all paid for, no government subsidies with my over the counter drugs.

Chad (2m 22s):

No, but you get them at a much lesser price than you do here.

Joel (2m 27s):

That is true. I can buy like three X, what I would buy here. And I just horde the shit.

Chad (2m 33s):

Oh shit, dude. Okay. Shout outs!

Joel (2m 36s):

Shout outs! Well. You know what that bell means. Chad, I've got Taco Bell. Shout out.

Chad (2m 42s):

Imagine that?

Joel (2m 43s):

The Ladders and CareerBuilder could learn a thing or two about innovation from our favorite mass producer of Tacos, the fast food chain that's doing God's work has just introduced the oversized Cheez-It Tostada and Crunch Wrap Supreme. That's right. They replaced the big ass tortilla chip with a big ass Cheez-It. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. Shout out from me to Taco Bell.

Chad (3m 9s):

I can't believe the first shout out is a Taco Bell. Okay. So I can't believe that I'm saying the next thing. Shout out to companies that will cover travel expenses for employees who need abortions. Shout out to companies that actually give a shit. This goes back to the American bumpkin project, which is apparently in full bloom right now.

sfx (3m 33s):

What did you say?

Joel (3m 34s):


Chad (3m 36s):


Joel (3m 36s):

I'm going to give a shout out to Airbnb. Well, the party's over at your favorite shared living space app Chad after making parties a no-no during COVID, the ban is now permanent and prohibits quote, "all disruptive parties and events" end quote, with a particular focus on open invite gatherings and quote "party house properties," which are defined as those that attract complaints from the neighbors. Sounds like you may have to rethink that New Year's Eve throw down in Portugal. Chad, shout out to our friends at Airbnb.

Chad (4m 8s):

First and foremost, it's my condo. It's not Airbnb's condo. So I'll do whatever the fuck I want there until you know, the management association comes and knocks on my door. A big shout out to Bas Van De Hatred who just dropped a gap band sized bomb on Phenom, with his most recent survey. That's right kids, Phenom seems to be in trouble with Endouble. Remember Phenom acquired Endouble in December of 2020. And since then here's some info from his survey. 55% of Endouble's clients said they would probably stay as a client back in 2021, 55%.

Chad (4m 51s):

Not a great score there, right? But now only 22% are willing to give them another chance. From 55% to 22% in about a year's timeframe kids. Endouble's rating for technical abilities went from second best to absolute worse, even worse than generic agencies. So they're getting beat by agencies that don't even specialize in what Endouble does. Next. Their price/quality rating went from a 6.5 to a 2.6 on a 10 point scale. This portfolio grab and European footprint play doesn't seem to be working out for Phenom with this specific acquisition.

Joel (5m 37s):

I'm still in awe of your gap band reference that you made in the beginning of this whole thing. Like how many of our listeners do you think got that? 20%?

Chad (5m 49s):

Drop a bomb on me Baby. Also, don't forget to download the full report at That's D I G I T A A L. Yes. That's a AA dash, W E R V E N dot N L. Wow. That's a Fucking name

Joel (6m 11s):

A dash in there.

Chad (6m 14s):

Jesus. Yes.

Joel (6m 15s):

Shout out to Hawaii the 50th state, I believe, or 49th state? Anyway.

Chad (6m 22s):


Joel (6m 23s):

Anyway, they enacted the nation's first statewide $18 minimum wage law. Of course it's aimed at fighting poverty among the island's workers, which by the way, is not a cheap place to work at.

Chad (6m 36s):

NO!!!! The cost of living there is probably about $30 an hour, so $18 bucks. Okay. That's awesome.

Joel (6m 44s):

It ain't Mississippi that's for sure. And, the worst news maybe is you'll have to wait. You have to wait a while. It, it will go into a $10.10 cent per hour raised immediately then a whopping $12 on October 1st and then an increments until it reaches $18 on January 1st, 2028.

Chad (7m 7s):

Holy shit!

Joel (7m 7s):

The six year wait is a lot of whale-watching, but I guess better, late than never. It's a good thing. Hawaii is such a cheap place to live, shout out to our friends in Hawaii.

Chad (7m 19s):

Oh, that sucks. Okay. So honorable mentioned this week, kids there's so much happening in this space. Workvivo gets a honorable mention after raising $22 million for its employee experience app that is supposedly there to keep teams connected. It's literally, as I dove into this, it's literally an internal Facebook is what it is. So we're taking the intranet, which everybody had at one time. And now we're having the intraFacebooks personally, I'm not a fan. Are you?

Joel (7m 56s):

Of internal Facebook? At least make an internal TikTok at least make it something new and exciting for the kids. Jeez you could download a WordPress plugin called buddy press or something, they'll get the same thing back 15 years ago. Yeah, that's right. We're bringing up the Gap band and Buddy press. That's right.

Chad (8m 14s):

Believe that!

Joel (8m 15s):

We're also bringing that free shit, Chad.

Chad (8m 16s):

I love free shit.

Joel (8m 17s):

Every week we talk about it, you got it. You got it. You got to get on.

Chad (8m 22s):

No, wait a minute. Wait, somebody just registered. And then they emailed us and said, Hey, I just registered. When am I going to get my t-shirts?

sfx (8m 33s):

What did you say?

Joel (8m 33s):

That's not how this works, kids.

Chad (8m 35s):

Tell them how it works.

Joel (8m 36s):

Here's how it works, guys. You got to go to You got to fill out the form. Then you get a chance to win a t-shirt from Emissary, a beer from our friends at Pillar or whiskey from our home boys and girls at Textkernel. But you don't get it automatically. You don't get it immediately. Have some patience. I know COVID is over and everybody wants everything now, but that's not how this works. Go to, click the free link and register.

Chad (9m 6s):

Man events. Kiddos. We've got RecFest coming next week. A big question is Cheeseman, I mean, after we have a full day on the Disrupt Stage, you are drunk out of your mind. What are you doing after that?

Joel (9m 19s):

I'm going to Checkers. Apparently the hot spot there in Knebworth where the beer is lukewarm like the Brits like it and the fish and chips are hot. I love the whole. I'll be partying with Bill Borman and crew at Checkers. How about you?

Chad (9m 35s):

We're going to bounce around England a little bit, and then we're going to take that next week and spend it in Portugal. So the condo in Portugal, this is a beautiful time of year. We're going to be able to enjoy the beaches and then get my ass home for the last week of July, where Julie and I are going to the National Industry Liaison Group conference, where I'm going to be on stage for a VIP event. I'm not going to be for the actual event, but for a VIP event, that's being held by Circa going to be on with Angela Hood and our friend EEOC commissioner Keith Sonderling so drinks, food and if you're out there listening and you're going to be at the NIHLG, and you don't have in invite to the VIP, hit me on the messenger.

Chad (10m 22s):

I might be able to hook you up. No promises.

Joel (10m 26s):

They won't let me at conferences like that within a hundred feet. But yeah, but both of us are going to take a little advantage of our European trist. And I am post RecFest. I think I'm going to take a little trip to the Liverpool Manchester area and see some of those sites, maybe see our friends at Karu. I don't know. I want to know, maybe get a new condom and a new pair of underwear from our friends in Manchester. And then I'm going to Finland of all places to hang out with my wife who is doing a conference in Helsinki. You know how much she loves the north Chad and she has already bought train tickets to some city called Oulu or Oulu where you can like walk to the North Pole.

Joel (11m 11s):

You can see like the Santa Claus land thing. So I'm going to be in full on North Pole mode. After our stint in Britain, you enjoy that beach in Portugal and I'll be riding reindeer with Santa in Finland.

Chad (11m 25s):

You might want to keep it under the radar that you're actually going to Finland because they might not allow them into NATO knowing that your ass is there.

Joel (11m 36s):

Shit, that's a fast-track to NATO, baby. I'll be wearing my Bruce Springsteen t-shirt and my John Mellencamp trucker hat. It'll be off.

Chad (11m 44s):

Yeah. Okay. Let's flip that then. Finland's going to say, okay, fuck. That's not worth it.

sfx (11m 54s):

Miles of meatloaf Fuck!

Joel (11m 55s):

All right. We got birthdays to celebrate kids. A couple, a few listeners this month, Chase Johnson and Chad Manson. That sounds like your fraternity leadership executive committee, Megan Maker, Paul, the Minnesota headhunter DeBettignies, whatever. No one knows. Hey, by the way, Paul LinkedIn lets you pronounce your last name on its site. Like I tried to get the audio of it. Like I encourage you. If you're going to be the head hunter guy to teach people how to say your name anyway, China Gorman are good out in Vegas. You know, she's going to have a good time for her birthday soon.

Joel (12m 36s):

And Josh Akers the "Indy Posse" celebrating a birthday happy birthday kids. 4th of July, good time to celebrate another year on the planet.

Chad (12m 48s):


Joel (12m 49s):

Holy shit. So each week you and I select the top stories to talk about and you chose this one, which I initially thought was a bit odd because it was

Chad (12m 59s):

You thought it was lame that's what you thought.

Joel (13m 3s):

It was highlighting North Dakota. So two websites that serve job service North Dakota are currently offline, due to a vendor problem, disrupting the job search process for job seekers. The outage began Sunday and is expected to last the rest of the week. They the effected websites. Chad, two of your favorites, ND workforce and, which houses labor market information. You chose this one though because some 27 states, which if you're keeping score at home is more than half the states in our country.

Chad (13m 36s):

Good math.

Joel (13m 36s):

So yeah, it's a big deal, Chad, this is your lane. What the hell's going on?

Chad (13m 44s):

Yeah, go to right now systems down. There are 20 plus I think it's around 27 states where job banks are actually shut down. We're seeing multiple states that are experiencing these outages plus more. And it's all because of one vendor. I shouldn't say because of one vendor, they're all under one vendor being Geographic Solutions out of Pearl Harbor, Florida. So multiple inside sources say it is a substantial security breach in more than just the job bank systems, meaning around 40 states are actually, or maybe even more than 40 states are actually affected by this breach, which is also being categorized as a cyber attack.

Chad (14m 28s):

Remember back in the day when Monster and CareerBuilder had breaches, I personally didn't think it was that big of a deal just because they didn't house real in-depth personal information. But state systems do, especially unemployment and insurance systems. Imagine someone having access to all of your personal data, social security number, address, bank account for direct deposits, right? I mean, so this is a huge issue. We obviously are facing cyber threats on a daily basis. The question is in a hyper cybersecurity landscape, which we're going to continue to be in.

Chad (15m 10s):

Will states be able to actually stay with just a single vendor. I mean, they do have some redundant systems, but from my understanding, even the hack is starting to spread into some of the redundant systems. So this I don't want to see any company, Geographic Solutions, any states or anything like that have to go through something like this, but we have to be smarter about how we face cyber and the systems that we use.

Joel (15m 36s):

You and I have discussed this, you know, since we've been doing this show and you have sort of these tier one sites that you you've gotta be really good to get into, right? Banking sites, Google, Microsoft, like companies that have entire teams dedicated to protecting the sites if they get attacked and then you have this like tier two level where they're gonna pay money with a ransomware attack or they have really delicate data that could be mined and taken, which is a really bad thing. And we're seeing a lot in our space. We're in that tier two zone, right? So we've talked about CareerBuilder, allegedly getting a ransomware attacked a couple of years ago, we remember UKG that had some of its payroll information disrupted.

Joel (16m 25s):

I think that was a ransomware attack as well. Fortunately for them, I think they're back online. And unfortunately this is another employment category site company that has been attacked. And we are just in this weird zone of a lot of our companies have enough money to pay the ransomware attack. And a lot of our companies are housing data that can be used to make a lot of money. So I don't have an answer. It's not like the government will come in and create sites. Maybe there'll be legislation to have a certain level of security on some of these sites, but it is a problem. It has been since we've been doing the show and it will continue to be a problem going into the future. I don't have a sense of how many people go to these sites.

Joel (17m 6s):

I doubt a ton, but you're right. When you say the data that can be mined is really sensitive and really valuable.

Chad (17m 13s):

Yeah. Some of these sites are actually some of the most trafficked sites in the actual states. So when we take a look at job boards overall, we take a look at them as a huge kind of like conglomerate of the entire nation. When you go to these state sites and me actually working with them over the years with direct employers in the National Labor Exchange, some of these sites are the most traffic job sites in their state period, right? Not to mention again, many of these on the unemployment insurance side of the house, you're forced to go in and use these systems as well. So they're connected. And again, we're not sure what exactly kind of an attack this is. We're not sure that they got any information. It's just, we know that there's an issue.

Chad (17m 56s):

Sites are down. There has been a breach, multiple sources, not just in public, but also some of my sources have said, this is probably going to happen into next week.

Joel (18m 5s):

And that while that was sort of, eye-opening when we did the House of HR show, learning that all these like government sites or our local sites or jobs are so highly frequented and in some cases are the top top sites for jobs in their location. So we probably sort of forget about that. And we probably shouldn't, these are really important sites to people looking for jobs and doing other things

Chad (18m 32s):

And trying to get paid unemployment.

Joel (18m 33s):

Yeah. It's a Geographical Solutions?

Chad (18m 35s):

Geographic solutions.

Joel (18m 36s):

Geographic Solutions. Yeah. If you want to know more guys, go to a Google and search Geographical Solutions crypto or not crypto, but a cyber attack. And you can see all the sites there's like Nebraska, Tennessee. I mean, there's a whole bunch of them, obviously half as we've outlined. But yeah, if you want to know more it up the Google machine, but yeah, we'll see if the lawsuits come, that'll be interesting to see if states and/or Geographic Solutions...

Chad (18m 58s):

They're going to get penalties. I mean, there's no question because they have downtime. So there's going to be millions of dollars in penalties. And I hope that GSR can actually get their shit together. I mean, again, nobody wants to see this happen, but you and I have talked about this in seeing this happen it seems like month after month, especially after the fucking UKG debacle, especially somebody who has sensitive data like this, it just, this cannot be tolerated.

Joel (19m 29s):

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Well, someone who's on the right track and not fucking up is DEEL. Yes. It's D EE L Chad, the San Fran based company has struck a deal. See what I did there? Hey, group limited a publicly traded global payroll company based in Melbourne, Australia. DEEL's offer would pay shareholders $1 in Australian currency per share that 69 cents in the U S in an all cash transaction. The deal implies a total equity value for pay group of approximately $82.6 million USD. The acquisition is expected to complete in October. All right, Chad, not exactly Elon looking to buy Twitter, but is this a big deal, little deal or no deal?

Chad (20m 16s):

So APAC expansion, baby, why APAC? This is straight from the financial review. Quote "APAC is home to two thirds of the world's population with huge skill talent pools of knowledge workers and tech talent, just the right skills that are in high demand across the world. We can open thousands of virtual employment doors around the world" end quote. So what we're talking about here is DEEL is a remote centric type of organization where they can help any organization that wants to hire all over the world and do it with ease, right? So this to me is a huge deal!

Joel (20m 57s):

Period. It's on the right track. Some of our listeners in case you missed it, DEEL is in a race to be the platform for global hiring and employee management, along with Oyster, Remote, Velocity, Global Work Motion, and many, many others. Founded in 2019, they're in 150 countries, they've also raised $425 million just October of last year. And they have a $5.5 billion valuation.

sfx (21m 27s):

Pink Fluffy Unicorns music

Chad (21m 28s):

Probably bigger now. ,

Joel (21m 28s):

Well, what better way to grow your company than to buy other companies. This purchase gives them a nice foothold into APAC, which you mentioned without doing all the grunt work of actually building it yourself. I expect these companies with, oh, I don't know, a pretty big war chest, to start buying up a lot of these companies to start gaining market share around the world. This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of acquisitions, globally of payroll companies and any other company that could support their features and services that they already provide.

Chad (22m 4s):

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel (22m 5s):

So it's a land rush, baby.

Chad (22m 6s):

It's apparent that DEEL isn't just gonna rest and squirrel away their nuts. They've got like $600 million or $680 million in funding. Apparently they're going to use it. And they're going to make moves. A Pay Group was founded in 2006. So they're not a youngster. They process nearly 11 billion and payroll each year for thousands of businesses. Again, if you want to be able to take over these huge swaths of opportunity and really expand that total addressable market, I mean really expand into it. This is what you have to do. I can't see these big companies are these wanting to be Goliath companies like DEEL and Remote and Oyster and so on and so forth.

Chad (22m 52s):

I can't see them growing without shit tons of acquisition and consolidation.

Joel (22m 54s):

Yeah, for sure. Like traditionally, when you get a ton of money, you either have to grow sort of geographically or nationally. You know, you buy a bunch of commercials or you build brand, you buy people, you know, feet on the ground. These are global targeted companies, right? They don't have time. They don't have the money to market globally. They don't have the time to like build teams themselves. Acquisition is going to be the prime way that these global companies grow. So it's a good time to start your own little company if you're looking to sell in a 12-18 month period, just a little tip out there if you want to build a startup. All right, let's go to healthcare. Chad, we've got three new stories in the first segment.

Joel (23m 37s):

That's how much news is going on this week. Nomad Health, an online platform that connects travel nurses with healthcare jobs raised $105 million and its latest funding round, which brings total funding raised at the NY based firm to more than $200 million. The company plans to expand its marketplace beyond travel nurses, to allied health professionals, including lab techs, physical therapists and ultrasound technicians. Nomad Health was founded in 2015 and now has a user base of more than 250,000 healthcare workers. Chad, you gotta be excited about what's going on in healthcare. What did your thoughts on Nomad Health?

Chad (24m 18s):

This does two things right out of the gate increases total addressable market and new business opportunities, right? So you're going to have an opportunity to be able to dig into new business where possibly you couldn't before and then wallet share, increase the amount of revenue from your current clients. Their founders, I can't say this enough, instead of just taking more and more and more cash, you need to prove the model, then expand the model and you can do that through what DEEL just did an acquisition or like Nomad is doing here. Not the other way around though. Don't expand the model and start, you know, looking for a bigger Tam, just because you got more money, you still have to ensure the model is proven.

Chad (25m 3s):

The big question though, for me is what's your prediction on this? Nomad starts buying healthcare staffing companies or large staffing company buys Nomad.

Joel (25m 12s):

I'm going to go with Nomad, buying up staffing companies. I think the heat is there. I think the tech is there. The business model is there. I think it's going to be them being the acquirer. And I think they're not going to be the only one to do it. Healthcare is going to be a trend that we talk about a lot. We've already talked about it quite a bit, actually one of my top three trends for the next few months, Chad. Healthcare, upscaling and robots. Anyway, we've seen gig economy come into the healthcare workforce where doctors, radiologists, nurses can sort of pick their hours, pick where they want to work, just like someone that drives an Uber can do. And now you're looking at something like this with travel nurses, they're getting into new marketplaces and new areas.

Joel (25m 55s):

I only see sunny skies for these businesses. You've got 77 million baby boomers that aren't getting any younger that need healthcare. The reality of COVID and now monkeypox! Who knows what's next? Healthcare is going to be in big demand. It's just fun to say monkeypox and this is going to be a trend that we're talking about for a long time. Maybe till we stop doing this show, we'll be talking about healthcare companies, raising a lot of money in growing their business.

Chad (26m 20s):

Yeah, it'd be great for staffing companies to quit buying stupid shit like Monster and start focusing on things that are more, you know, evolutionary, you know, like Step Forward, like Nomad Health. I mean this just, again, it just makes sense. And the way that they're proving the model and expanding the model I think is, is great business practice.

Joel (26m 38s):

Yep. Let's take a quick break. I gotta blow my nose and we'll talk about Pave.

Chad (26m 47s):

Now, if this was the Europe show, it would be Pave.

Joel (26m 52s):

Pave, yes, like Visage is Visage.

Chad (26m 54s):


Joel (26m 57s):

All right Chad. Compensation startup Pave has raised a hundred million in a series C, which mints them as a new unicorn at $1.6 billion in valuation. The company was founded in 2019 has 150 employees and more than 2,500 customers. The startup says it's on a mission to build the world's best compensation tools and easily accessible market data so companies can plan, communicate and benchmark in real time. Based in San Francisco Pave last raised a $46 million series B that was in August of '21 investors in the company include the likes of, oh, I don't know, Andreessen Horowitz.

Joel (27m 40s):

Chad, is this company on solid ground or do you see cracks in the pavement?

Chad (27m 46s):

Unifying, total comp and budgeting. I can get behind. I'm a huge fan of whatever drives, pay equity, people doing the same job, getting paid at the same rate. I'm an even bigger fan of pay transparency. I mean, seriously, if you've got nothing to hide, then why the fuck are you hiding it? The big excuse for companies over the years has always been that systems are too complex to pull together the data and make comparisons, without ton of admin work. Well guess what kids I've called bullshit for years and now what platforms like Pave can do, I'm going to yell bullshit, even louder. So with.

sfx (28m 24s):

What did you say?

Chad (28m 26s):

With platforms like Pave and Syndeo, if you remember a career coach, Colacurcio. Maria Colacurcio.

Joel (28m 33s):


Chad (28m 33s):

So Syndeo, there are more reasons for equity in the workplace. Although I doubt you're going to see companies flocking to these systems because most don't want to be equitable and transparent. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see companies going after these systems. They're just going to create excuses and they're not going to get there unless they're forced.

Joel (28m 56s):

Interesting. So let me quote, Index Ventures partner, Mark Goldberg, who said in a statement, quote “Compensation is a visceral problem for every company. For generations, we have been stuck with offline, finger-in-the-air practices when figuring out how much to pay people. These problems are both universal and wildly expensive" end quote. Throw in a pandemic and a more globalized workforce and you've got yourself a really, really big problem that at least Pave is trying to solve.

Chad (29m 24s):


Joel (29m 25s):

Throwing tech into this is not necessarily a bad thing, at least you know, in theory. Look, it's hard to get payment right or pay, right when you're in just one city or one location, try doing it for an entire world. I got to applaud them for getting in the game and trying to solve some of the pay transparency or pay issues that you you've highlighted. It's also hard for me to see a company like this be a standalone company. I got to think that once the economy improves, they basically have a few different options. They can go to IPO or they can sell. I think they're pretty pricey and I don't see the economy bouncing back anytime soon, in terms of the public markets.

Joel (30m 10s):

So I would predict these guys go IPO, try to get some sort of a valuation that makes sense and then have someone come in and buy them, similar to how LinkedIn did. LinkedIn came to public markets and figured out what the hell is this thing actually worth because nobody knew what a social media company was worth. I think the same as is similar with the companies in our space. Nobody's exactly sure what these companies are worth. IPO, get a price that people can agree on and then probably sell out. Or go out of business who knows?

Chad (30m 39s):

ADP needs to buy these guys.

Joel (30m 42s):


Chad (30m 42s):

I mean, that's what it comes down to is being able to have all of this data accessible in one place, which you know, you can with Pave, I'm just not sure. Like you would sit on a standalone system that companies are gonna pay for it because if they're not forced to, they don't have line item budgets. They're not getting find out their ass by the US government because of their pay practices. Why? Why do it?

Joel (31m 9s):

Great points, Chad and the Nyquil's kicking in and I don't have a response for you. But let's go to our final news story.

Chad (31m 25s):


Joel (31m 25s):

Gloat has announced a $90 million Series D round by generation investment management.

Chad (31m 30s):


Joel (31m 31s):

A firm led by former VeeP Al Gore. This brings the startups total raise to $192 million. The proceeds will be put toward expanding Gloat's presence, growing its team of over 250 employees and strengthening its R and D initiatives. Founded in 2015, Gloat sources information on employees to help match them to job openings at their employer, whether they're proactively searching or a manager seeks them out. In cases where a worker falls short of requirements, the platform provides guidance on what they need to learn as well as part-time and shadowing opportunities. Upscaling and internal mobility are hot Chad and Gloat is riding the wave.

Joel (32m 12s):

Your thoughts.

Chad (32m 13s):

So will companies embrace internal mobility? That's the big question. Whose budget does it come out of? Is there actually a line item budgets big enough to buy another piece of tech that is going to be slammed into an already redundant tech stack? I said it before, and I'll say it again. If retention and internal mobility are so goddamned important, why are companies buying IM systems like Gloat? And if IM was in such great demand and by great demand, I mean, people will actually pay cold, hard cash for it. Why aren't bigger systems buying Gloat? Cause they're not going to want to develop this themselves, they're going to go do some lame ass closet version.

Chad (32m 57s):

I'm in the same camp with Gloat that I am with Pave. Companies will talk the talk all damn day, but only a few will actually walk the walk and will that few be enough to make Gloat a big player in the space? I think platforms like Gloat have to be ingrained an automated piece of every talent management system. This can not be something that you actually think about. It just needs to happen, in general Internal mobility teams do not exist.

Joel (33m 30s):

And they've got a few competitors. Chad, I don't know if you saw that? By the way, your boy, Josh Berson, Josh Berson say that fast three times, your boy, Josh Berson, Josh Berson is all over this one saying in a blog post quote, "I've talked with many Gloat customers and they all tell me the same thing. Once this system is up and running, the employees immediately love it" end quote. He added quote, "I believe Gloat is one of the up and coming vendors that are data-driven, AI centric systems designed to completely redesign how companies work" end quote.

Chad (34m 8s):


Joel (34m 9s):

High praise.

Chad (34m 9s):

Blah, blah, blah, blah

Joel (34m 10s):

Yeah, they have a ton of competition, Eightfold, Phenom, iCIMS and many others. But really, I mean, no matter what the economy does, like internal mobility, I think will remain hot. Up-scaling and term internal mobility. People hate recruiting. They want to improve retention, like keeping your current bucket of employees in the company and keeping them happy, I think is going to continue to be important. Gloat obviously supports this trend and I think is in a decent position, but the competition makes me a lot less bullish than if they were one of the Mavericks in this space and doing great things. But according to your boy, companies love them and employees love him even more.

Joel (34m 52s):

So, Hey, it's sunny skies for Gloat as far as your boy, Josh Berson is concerned. Well, speaking of sunny skies, let's talk about the flying hotel after this quick break. Chad, you remember Elysium?

Chad (35m 5s):

I do. I do.

Joel (35m 7s):

Wwith Matt Damon, where all the rich privileged people live on a luxury space station?

Chad (35m 15s):


Joel (35m 15s):

While the commoners had to struggle to survive on earth. Well, welcome to 2154, Chad, a giant nuclear powered flying hotel.

Chad (35m 23s):

Oh my God.

Joel (35m 24s):

Complete with a gym and swimming pool is set to carry 5,000 passengers in unparalleled luxury. It's now in the works, Chad it's in the ideation stage. The AI piloted Sky Cruise, that's what they're calling it, plans to remain airborne for months at a time.

Chad (35m 43s):


Joel (35m 43s):

Also docking to take on new passengers or to drop off anyone on board. The futuristic hybrid between a plane and a hotel, which has 20 engines powered by, get this nuclear fusion, is designed never to land. Chad we've been waiting for flying cars since the 1950s, and now we've made the leap to flying hotels. Are you ready to check in on this flight or are you sticking with Delta?

Chad (36m 9s):

This to me is like the perfect, like Airplane sequel. This is what movies are made of. This is a comedy. I won't even go on a fucking cruise ship anymore. I mean, it is a Petri dish and you get to get off of the cruise ship, right? You get to get off of at, you know, the Caribbean or something like that. I mean, this is being dubbed the new Titanic. Can you imagine a nuclear reactor falling from the sky? I'm going to go with no. I'm going to, this is hard pass for me.

Joel (36m 40s):

Yeah. Not only is it the next Airplane. It's the next Armageddon because when this thing hits a Toledo, Toledo is off the map. We can't visualize this verbally for the podcast, but if you, if you go search for it, the images of this thing are absolutely ridiculous. It's like 10 times bigger than a regular plane. It's got like double, it's like a biplane with 20 engines on it.

Chad (37m 8s):

It looks like a cruise ship with wings.

Joel (37m 9s):

It's totally ridiculous. By the way, it could be weaponized, right? Like not just crashing on its own, it could be shot down over whatever. And then it becomes a bomb, a nuclear bomb.

Chad (37m 18s):

Really going dark. Aren't ya?

Joel (37m 20s):

I'm going dark. I'll go in dark. That's where my brain is after all the meds. So I did love this one comment, quote "I bet I still end up next to someone else's screaming three-year-old for the entire trip" end quote. I love human ingenuity, Chad, but this is a big, never going to happen for me.

Chad (37m 35s):

Hard pass.

Chad and Cheese (37m 36s):

We out. We out.

OUTRO (37m 38s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode.

OUTRO (38m 25s):

And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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