Douchebag Marketing 101

It's The Chad & Cheese Birthday episode, which was totally overshadowed by:


- Entelo kicking their founder & CEO to the curb - Go1.com, VergeSense, & MedWing get cash - Douche Marketing shaming session - Marketing Master Class by WalMart and Nvidia just redefined blasphemy


The market is going crazy over tech which is why you should be researching, visiting, and calling companies like our sponsors Jobvite, Sovren, and JobAdx.


PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:

Disability Solutions' clients are changing the lives of people with disabilities, including veterans with service related disabilities.


Adam Chambers: Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, Mr. President. Happy birthday to you.

SFX: Happy birthday.

Intro: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: Another 2.1 million filed jobless claims this week in the US, bringing the 10 week total to nearly 41 million. And Chad and I turned another year older. So how's your week going?

Chad: Yay.

Joel: Welcome to The Chad and Cheese Podcast everybody. I'm your co-host Joel, I'll always be younger than Chad, Cheesman.

Chad: And I'm Chad, much wiser, much smarter, Sowash.

Joel: Much balder. On this week's show, dollars keep rolling in for the work from home venders, douche marketing is alive and well, and Entelo gets a new CEO. Grab a glass of prune juice grandpappy, you'll want to be regular for this one. We'll be right back.

Sovren: Sovren parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry. The more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting sovren.com. That's S-O-V- R-E-N.com. We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren, software so human, you'll want to take it to dinner.

SFX: Happy birthday.

Chad: We have to talk about the singing that started this whole thing off. That was something that I received yesterday, my birthday. Today is your birthday. It came from Adam Chambers, our favorite Irish-Mexican. He was singing his Marilyn Monroe rendition of happy birthday. And this is the birthday episode, so I thought that would be appropriate.

Joel: Marilyn is rolling in her grave somewhere. Oh my God. What was that? Thanks Adam. Thanks Adam.

Chad: Let's get some Corona virus stuff out of the way. We were just talking about, before the podcast, my daughter, she's a senior in high school, she's getting ready to graduate. And my wife, Julie and I were sitting on the couch this morning. She's like, "So how are you feeling about the whole graduation thing?" And I told her, I said, "You know what? I've been thinking more about the security, the safety, the distancing, the masks and all of that." It's been really hard. Not to mention, she walks across the "stage" today, and they take all the footage and they pull it together. They've been doing this for the last three days, so that they can get all the kids together. Then they edit it so that it happens all in one stream on YouTube. So today she walks, she really graduates on Saturday. There's all this stuff going on. It's really hard to reconcile because we're not really focusing on the event, we're focusing on all the shit around it, and it's just really weird, man.

Joel: Help me envision this, they're each getting filmed individually walking across the stage in a gown? I'm

Chad: Yeah. There were three days that they did this, right? And they have like three hour chunks, and they did it alphabetically. Right? Sowash, always at the end. So they're filming them coming across the stage, they get their pictures, all that other fun stuff. Only their families are in that area, which is why it takes so long. So they get the film done, they go do the next one and just rinse and repeat, and then they edited it all together into one segment of all the kids walking across the stage. It's a lot of work, but again, it's not what we're used to traditionally, so my brain doesn't know how to process it.

Joel: So are you going to like fire up the Roku, and watch it on the big screen at the house? Or

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Okay. All right.

Chad: Yeah. Yeah. We'll definitely do that. And that will be "graduation", but it's just ... Again, we haven't had really time to process how we feel about her graduating high school. Because none of this feels like it's actually happening. Right? So, it's weird.

Joel: Kind of like watching The Shining. You just feel a little a bit off after watching it, if not scared shitless.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: I took the kids, my big kids, 10 and 13 years old, to the first restaurant that we've been to in 10 or 12 weeks. It was good to get out. We like restaurants, we like the whole thing. We were sitting way more than six feet apart from the next people that were there. Waitress, mask. We wore masks going in, obviously we had to take them off to eat, I'm not that good. Disposable menus or throwaway menus. And then of course washing hands afterwards. So I didn't feel scared or anything. I felt weird that there were a few older folks. And I don't mean like older like us, like gray hairs and walkers. And I was surprised to see that. But here in the Midwest, we have a much different attitude about this stuff than the coast do, I think.

Chad: I agree. I agree. Let's call that our Corona block.

Joel: Corona block.

Chad: Shout outs.

Joel: It's a short week. We both had birthdays. My wife is convinced we can't do this show in 30 minutes, she's probably right. But let's get to shout outs and see how tight we can get this show.

Chad: Okay. From Austria, Ling Wu, over at the JOBIQO. She has been listening to the podcast for a while, and really enjoys the mix between entertainment and valuable insights. So thanks

SFX: Hell yeah.

Chad: ... Thanks Ling for listening. And very close to the same kind of comments, from D.C., Grant Clough, who's the director of TA over at AARP, which soon we're going to be members of, feels the same way as Ling. Although, he did say that he often does not agree with me, which I dig. Because you don't have to agree with us to listen, especially if you're looking for different challenging viewpoints and positions on ideals. Whether it's HR, TA, employment branding, economics, politics, we talk about it all. But Grant, I have to say, man, I love that. Thanks for listening. And thanks for not agreeing, because that's what this is all about.

Joel: And when he says don't agree with you, does he mean you singular or are you plural, meaning both of us on the show?

Chad: I don't know. But I would assume that more than likely, he will disagree with me and/or you, depending on our positions. Either way

Joel: oh, that's guaranteed. That's guaranteed.

Chad: Yeah. The whole message for me is, that's exactly what we want. We don't want group think, right?

Joel: Sure, sure, sure. Shout out to you my friend.

SFX: Happy birthday.

Chad: Aw.

Joel: Happy birthday, yesterday. Today is my birthday. Little known fact about us, born the same year, one day apart. I'm still getting into my birthday, but yours is done. How was it?

Chad: It was good time. Mowed the lawn. Enjoyed myself, just chilled. Julie said, "What do you want for dinner?" I said, "Beer and pizza." She was like, "Done." It was perfect.

Joel: You're mowing the lawn comment, I have to ... It was my wedding anniversary, four years. Are you four years as well or are you a year from me in the wedding anniversary?

Chad: God, I can't remember.

Joel: Okay. Well, I won't mention that to Julie. Anyway

Chad: She can't either.

Joel: ... Yeah. Said to my wife, "What do you want to do on our anniversary?" She loves her power washer, which is this whole Midwest suburban thing. She wanted to clean our trash cans with the power washer. So you're mowing lawns and my wife is power washing trash cans on a special day.

Chad: Love it.

Joel: Shout out to both of you.

Chad: Shout out. Shout out to Kevin Anderson recruiter over at uShip in Austin, Texas. And from Jakarta, Nigel Hembrow, the CEO over at Astronaut. Thanks for connecting and listening gents.

Joel: Very nice. Very nice. I'm going to give a shout out to Twitter for growing a pair this week. I don't know if you saw this, but Twitter finally took a stand on Trump's bullshit tweets, and said, "Hey, you might want to fact check this statement." And, of course, crybaby got all upset and wants to regulate the social media business and create a bunch of static for them. So, Twitter, congratulations. Shout out. But, you might regret that in the following months with new regulation and new feds up your ass.

Chad: They have terms of service. And most of the shit that that fucker posts should be deleted. So, at the best, he can put a little check for voting information. Fuck that. Straight from the Netherlands, Kim Lockenberg, she actually Facebook video called me, so that her and her husband, I assume, boyfriend, I don't know, they could sing happy

Joel: This is getting kind of kinky.

Chad: ... They could sing happy birthday to me in Dutch.

Joel: Nice.

Chad: Well, at least I think it was Dutch, I really have no clue. But they were drunk, and they wanted to sing happy birthday to me, and so they video called me on Facebook and I thought that was hilarious.

Joel: Where are my drunk video calls from couples in Scandinavian areas? What's up with that, dude?

Chad: Dude, your birthday just started.

Joel: That's pretty naughty stuff. I don't know about that. All right. My last one, and I'm going to be a little bit of a downer, but police violence, dude. This isn't a shout out, but what the fuck America?

Chad: It's fucking ridiculous.

Joel: I just don't have words for it. I don't know. This shit keeps happening. It's, it's sad, it's disgusting. I just don't get it, dude. This shit keeps happening and I don't know why, and it's just amazingly frustrating and sad. And shit needs to change.

Chad: The thing that drives me crazy. I have a ton ... I was in the military for 20 years, and there are a lot of cops that have served in the military, so I have a lot of a cop buddies. And to be able to see these rotten apples just spoil the whole fucking ... We have individuals that are out there doing great work in protecting us, but we've got this stupid fucking son of a bitch who has his knee on the dude's neck and then starts playing with him, "Oh, can you get up? Can you get up?" And he's like, "No, I can't breathe. I can't get up." And again, in suing, the guy dies. Very reminiscent of when the gentlemen was putting in a choke hold and said he couldn't breathe, and died. Right?

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: So this is our ... And this is one of the things that [Thorn Ellis 00:11:37.19] actually told us, in London when we asked, "What can a couple of white guys do to try to help stop this shit? To try to help press equality? To try to just help." And he said, "Speak up." So, I appreciate you calling this out, but this is our job as a couple of white dudes, of allies to be able to make a bunch of fucking noise when we see shit that's wrong.

Joel: Yeah. I want to understand, you have police buddies, I have a few, not that I've talked about this with them, but is this normal? I understand like to disable a guy or get him down and get him cuffed. I understand the need of the neck thing, probably works really well, I don't understand keeping him down for five plus minutes. And how dumb do you have to be, with multiple cameras taking video of all this stuff, to continue to just knee on the guy? I just don't fucking get it. Imagine the stuff we don't see

Chad: Exactly.

Joel: ... that isn't videotaped and shined a light on in the public. This is a much bigger problem, even than we think it is, even though we see this on a regular basis.

Chad: It is. It is. And again, for all those public servants that are out there that are doing the best that they can to do their job right, to police the public. One of my best friends is in PR for a small police department in Brownsburg, and his whole focus is, how do we connect to the community and really do this the right way? For guys like that, who has spent his whole career trying to connect to the community, that shit doesn't help. Whether it was in your community or not, people are still seeing that, and that's how they're viewing the police overall in general. And man, that's fucking hard.

Joel: Yeah. Bad on all accounts. Do you have something positive to end the shout outs on?

Chad: Yes. So I just want to say, shout out to my wife, Julie's team. They canceled a team meeting yesterday.

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: And their cancellation response, and Julie actually sent the response to me, and this is it, I quote, "This meeting is canceled so that we can all celebrate the birth of Chad Sowash."

SFX: Hell yeah.

Chad: "#Drink beer." Yeah. Very funny guys. I appreciate the pandering and it obviously works. So shout out to the the team at Disability Solutions, who is also our transcription sponsor.

Joel: Oh, very nice. We appreciate that. Let's get to the news.

Chad: Events really quick. Virtual travel brought to you by Shaker Recruitment Marketing, really quick.

SFX: Hell yeah.

Chad: Next week is SmashFly Transform, it's June 3rd. You and I are getting on the mic in front of the camera for a session called, We the Brand for the People by the People, and there's a question mark after that.

Joel: Tricky.

Chad: We're bringing Chris Kneeland in, who is the co-founder of an agency called Cult Collective. And he's also the co-founder of The Gathering. And we did just an awesome onstage segment in Banff, earlier this year, and Symphony Talent and SmashFly wanted us to bring that to Transform. Unfortunately, we can't do it live, so we're doing it virtual. We're going to have cocktails, we're going to be sitting back, relaxing, and we're going to have the hard discussion around why marketing has a blind spot, and why talent acquisition is in the fetal position and not going after that cash.

Joel: It's going to be a fun time. I love Chris. Chris is the man.

Chad: So register at smashfly.com. There we go.

Joel: Now to the news.

Chad: CEO

Joel: Entelo.

Chad: ... Out.

Joel: Yes. So, yeah, reported this week, we kind of got the scoop on it. Little story, I got an email, Tuesday, that this had gone down. And it's actually has been done for a while, but it just now sort of seeing the light of day, I guess.

Chad: Really?

Joel: But, Entelo, most of our listeners will know them, founded in 2011 by Jon Bischke, a lot of our listeners will know him as well, they've raised 40 million total. The business has been up and down over the years. Certainly, GDPR, all the stuff with LinkedIn and getting access to profiles has been challenging for them. Last year they threw a hail Mary, they acquired ConveyIQ, to bring those two dinosaurs together to hopefully survive the asteroid because they could keep each other warm. Apparently hasn't gone as well as Bischke had sold it to the investors, who had actually put in more money to make the acquisition happen. So, announced this week officially, the company released a statement that Jon Bischke is no longer the CEO. So the news now is, Robert Tsao, hopefully I'm saying that correctly, it's T-S-A-O

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: ... Is now a CEO of the company. Tsao was at Jobvite prior to Entelo. My source says that he was not real happy with Finnigan being ousted as CEO at Jobvite, I'm not sure ousted is the word, we don't know exactly why Dan left. He might've just said, "I'm done with this for a while." But he didn't really like when Aman came in and did his thing and I guess there was some tension there allegedly, which made the move out to Entelo more easily. Also to announce, I texted him on this week and he said that Jared Adams, who was the product guy at Canvas is now the SVP of product at Jobvite. So little shuffling of the chairs there. But Entelo obviously, I don't want to say dying company, but a company that's probably not doing very well right now, for their sake, I hope the new CEO can turn things around, but this is pretty big news in the industry for that sort of mid tier technology provider.

Chad: Yeah. It's interesting that they bring a chief product officer in, that saying something. I think, right out of the gate, that the product is lacking and that perspectively Entelo and ConveyIQ, the connection or the integrations or whatever the hell should be happening, just isn't happening. That's key. Especially when you have an acquisition, you need to be able to create solid products so that people can go sell that shit. Right?

Joel: Yeah. Yeah.

Chad: Not saying that that didn't happen, but obviously what they did create didn't sell. I think it's interesting that Danielle, who was the CEO at ConveyIQ wasn't upped. So that's sending signals to me, how long is she going to be around? Yeah. It just really sounds like this is a product position and more than likely the investors themselves are the ones who are going to be steering the ship from now on.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. My guess is Danielle probably signed at least a year contract, which is still going. I think Robert, the new CEO, will make that decision, as he gets settled in. I reached out to him on LinkedIn, asked him about, "Hey, you want to come on the show and talk about things?" He said that he would once things get settled. So

Chad: Excellent.

Joel: ... Hopefully we can vet through some of these things and new ideas and what his vision is for the company. Because certainly well known brand, mostly a favorable brand I think, for most people, I just think it's gotten stale over the last few years. So if he can revive it, great. My source did also say that he didn't think that Robert was a great leader, although he is a great product guy. So he thought the move was a reach for Entelo, but time will tell. Maybe this guy put under pressure will rise to the occasion and make things happen for them. We certainly hope so. Bu yeah, big news out of Entelo this week.

Chad: Yeah. When you are looking at, let's say for instance, an organization that is not on the rise, not to mention COVID's happening and all that other fun stuff, you're probably going to go ahead and kick the founder to the curb because they're going to do what they want to do because it's their company and they created it. So you get rid of them and you get somebody that you can control. Not saying that's what's happening, but it just makes sense. The guy was a chief product officer for goodness sakes. Right? They need to be able to sell something. So they need him to come in, rework the product and then really focus on that, and allow the investors really to play the role, to an extent, of the shadow CEO.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Almost 41 million invested in this company in the last 10 years or so. Obviously the people want a cash out event. I don't see IPO in their future anytime soon. So I assume Robert's goal is to get this product in line, to get it off the books for those investors and then hopefully make some money. But my guess is, they're a long way from that and have a lot of work ahead of them.

Chad: Yeah. I agree. Well, some other companies received funding. go1.com was one of those companies. They are really like a Udemy or a Coursera, they're much like that.

Joel: Yeah. Lynda.

Chad: Yeah, or Lynda. They're really focused on helping individuals, specifically professional training courses. And it's interesting that we are seeing so much focus on this as we're home, because this shit should have happened when we were in the office as well. It's like, the quote was, "The need for tools to help them, the employees, feel connected to their profession can be as important as tools to more practically keep them connected". Well, that happens when you're in the office as well, this isn't something that is new. We've had skills gaps. We need to be able to

prep people for their career path so that we can retain them and push them up the ladder. Companies looking to do this now because of "COVID", they've had blinders on for years. The big question is, will we revert back to not giving a shit when we get back in the office?

Joel: Yeah. I think this movement for education at home has been going on for a long time. It's incredibly competitive. Go1's raised $84 million total. The latest round was a C round at 40 million. They have backers like SEEK, out of Australia, the largest job board there in the Pacific, a lot of our listeners know who they are. Microsoft is behind this. Salesforce is behind this. You mentioned Lynda, who was acquired by LinkedIn, quite a few years ago. This is not a new concept, Udemy, which you mentioned. I think there's an also an interesting perspective of what's going to happen to universities and what is a college education worth, going forward. And I think that most people believe, just going to a university for four years for a degree, which used to equal a job, doesn't necessarily happen anymore.

Chad: Right.

Joel: You have to keep expanding your skillset. You have to keep learning. And these solutions are obviously perfect fits for that. I think it's incredibly competitive. There's a lot of money going into it. I think most companies will move toward getting a strategy around continued education. What does that look like? How do we keep our people fresh? How do we get new people that have great attitudes but maybe not the skills to learn those skills and become more important to us? And it's also very expensive to just send people back to school, right? It's still popular to like, you want an MBA? All right, we'll send you to Kellogg. We'll send you to wherever. And that's very expensive. Whereas these solutions, do you learn the same thing? Probably. Is it a lot cheaper? Yeah. But you also don't lose people as readily, retention is probably better than if you give someone a degree from Duke, a master's in Duke, they're probably more likely to go somewhere else.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: So I think it's good for the company. I think it's good for the employees. I think it's going to be a trend that that catches hold. Where this fits into education after K through 12, I think will be interesting. I think that's sort of the next trend that you'll see this thing catch onto and universities embracing it. But you keep seeing these work from home companies get funded, Go1 is just one example. VergeSense was also in the news this week, raised $9 million, 10 million. This is the sort of 1984 big brother company that we've talked about, where they keep an eye on you while you work, what's your temperature? How close are you to other people? "Keeping people safe". We also have Medwig that got 30 million, a company out of Germany that's in the healthcare sector trying to get them employed. So you see these trends that are getting funded and it's probably going to continue for the next 12, 18 months.

Chad: Yeah. It's interesting to see the funding still happening. Right? It hasn't dried up. It's just diverted to different areas.

Joel: All right. Let's take a break. Keeping this tight, and we'll talk about douche marketing. Always fun.

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SFX: Happy birthday.

Chad: I'm going to see if I can get Amber Ferrari to read that, because I think our show is missing that.

Joel: Amber loves you. So I think you can get her to do that. She'll do that for you.

Chad: Okay. So I got to start this off. I'm sitting on the couch last weekend and one of our listeners/troublemakers reaches out to me with a screenshot of a LinkedIn post. And her message was, "This is such arrogant bullshit". And here's the text that she actually sent me of the LinkedIn post, "Our CEO of Titus Talent, Jonathan Reynolds-"

Joel: Who?

Chad: "... Is a visionary, entrepreneur and game changer. He started Titus Talent after experiencing firsthand, that the traditional hashtag recruiting model was broken and had to be changed to produce better results and create lasting partnerships. Curious about learning more on how we revolutionize the recruiting process?" I then couldn't stop myself, and she knew that, I responded on the post and basically mocking the arrogance and inviting him on the show. He responded very quickly with, "That sounds like fun," and I haven't heard from this motherfucker since.

Joel: So there's two strategies here. One was popularized by the Nazis, probably not the one that you want to go with, which is basically, if you tell a big enough lie enough times, people will believe it. The other side of that is, your brand is what people say about you, right? Elon Musk doesn't do ads for his company saying he's a visionary, a brilliant guy, a genius. He's that because people say that about him.

Chad: And he puts rockets into space, and then brings them back and they land by themselves. Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. He's an extreme example. But I could say that about anyone in our industry, right? Colin or Aman or anyone that's in our space, right? They don't beat their chest, people like us and customers are talking about the cool things they're doing, the innovative stuff that's going on with their companies. They don't need to advertise that they're led by a visionary to try to get people to come to their webinar.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Yeah. This is a real stretch. I've never heard of this company. I've never heard of this dude.

Chad: No.

Joel: Maybe he'll come on the show and totally blow us both away, but I doubt it. This is pretty shitty, douchey, whack marketing.

Chad: I'm wondering, as I was continuing to think about this, because I think about that shit way too much, do you think this is actually in his voice because he is the CEO at a small company? Or has marketing gotten over their skis on these types of posts? What do you think?

Joel: Yeah. We don't know. It's either a really egotistical leader saying, "Hey, 28 year old marketing manager, I want you to do messaging about how brilliant I am and how visionary I am." Or, it's a marketing manager saying like, "I'm going to get on the good side of our CEO and talk him up as a brilliant visionary, and get good standing in the company." We don't know because we're not there. If we talk to this guy for 30 minutes, we'll probably get a good idea of which one it is. If I were a betting man, I'd say he's an egomaniac and wants to beat his own chest.

Chad: Well, I would just say, message to Jonathan Reynolds, we'd love to have you on the show, can't wait my friend. But I would also say, this next article would be something that you should probably read and emulate, because Walmart's people marketing ... Remember in April when Walmart dropped a commercial called Walmart Neighbors, with their employees singing the Lean on Me tune, Bill Withers, who actually just died not too long ago. Dude, that ad was great. The focus were the people. The message was, lean on us.

Joel: Hell yeah.

Chad: Then what did they do? They up the ante, they just dropped another video ad, starring an employee reading an original poem about working during COVID-19 pandemic. Terrell Trizz Myles, Trizz

Joel: Cool.

Chad: ... A department manager at a store in San Tan Valley in Arizona recites his poem inside the store in a new ad which was filmed after hours when the store was closed. The poem, Hearts of Magic, addresses the need for resiliency and strength during difficult times while offering a message of hope and connection. And personally

Joel: It's awesome.

Chad: ... I think this is how you do marketing, right? This is how you do it. Your products, your services, your company, it's the people.

Joel: Your employees. Yeah.

Chad: It's not the CEO. Can the CEO be involved? Hell yeah. Are they the centerpiece? Hell no. Right? The people are the centerpiece. And this is one of the things that again, going like a rant, when we see CEO's being paid 1500 times that of the people that are actually doing the job. In this country we have really fallen short on understanding who's doing the work and why companies are so goddamn successful. It's not the motherfucker up top, it's all those people that do the hard work every single day.

Joel: Sure.

Chad: And when you see douche marketing, like we just talked about. And then you see something like this, you have to say that Walmart gets it.

Joel: Yeah. Do you feel more like going to Walmart after that? Or seeing the douchey webinar ad, do you feel more like signing up for the webinar? Right? And it's a brilliant ad. I'd love to know how they, whatever, the exacts whoever got wind of this poem, I'm sure it wasn't from the topdown saying, "Hey everybody, write a poem and you might get in an ad." I'm sure this was a grassroots thing, that this guy wrote this poem and his manager probably said, "Oh, I should make Arkansas aware of this," Bentonville or whatever the fuck it is, and it got to the marketing agency. But it's brilliant, it's touching, it's optimistic, it's a great ad. And whoever's doing Walmart's marketing is brilliant. Because 20 years ago, Walmart was the devil, they were killing America, the mom and pops, they were the devil. Amazon has kind of taken their place. But how did Walmart become the hometown cheerleader place we go for everything provider? It's great marketing, and they do a good service and they have low prices. But this ad is great, and a big round of applause for them because ... Well done.

Chad: So again, there's the douchey side of the house, or there's the part where you hold your people up and demonstrate how things actually get done. Now, this is a conversation for another time, those people who are actually doing the hard work aren't getting paid enough. The uplifting, I think, of them demonstrating that they are the people that make this brand, that's a step in the right direction. Now they need to get paid more.

Joel: Don't be douchey.

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Chad: Waka waka waka waka waka waka waka waka waka waka waka.

Joel: Speaking of birthdays, Pac-Man turns 40 this year. So, that's a birthday baby.

Chad: That is.

Joel: And you and I remember when that shit came out.

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: That's how OG we are.

Chad: That's how OG we are.

Joel: Dude, I used to love the arcade. Did you?

Chad: Oh God. Yeah. How could you not? Donkey Kong, Defender, [Inaudible 00:35:54.07]

Joel: [Inaudible 00:35:56.12], asteroid. Oh, man. Centipede.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: I'm going to cry.

Chad: And the company that actually makes the chips for many of those games, Nvidia, is best known, obviously for those graphic cards, but the company conducts some serious ass research into AI as well. For its latest project, their researchers taught an AI system to recreate the game of Pac-Man from scratch simply by watching it being played. I have no clue how that works. Is there like a little robot that's watching it and then it's all feeding into its robot brain, and then it's a little robot fingers are developing it? I don't understand how the algorithm works.

Joel: Oh, yeah. You and I aren't smart enough to know what Nvidia is doing here, or what the AI is doing. And Nvidia by the way is huge in Bitcoin mining, which again, is beyond my understanding, but this is like crazy, super powerful computing. And the fact that you can just show a computer what a screen of what's going on and it doesn't see the code, it doesn't see any of the guts of what's going on and it can recreate that product and what's going on in that screen is pretty mind blowing and scary. But damn, AI is quickly becoming scary smart. I mean, damn.

Chad: Yeah. Well, and Nvidia says work like this shows how AI will be used for game design in the future. Developers can input their work into the AI and use it to create variations or maybe design new levels. So what they're saying here, and the gaming industry in itself, it's like a fucking workshop. It's one of those sweat shops, pretty much. You come in, you work your ass off more than 40, 80 hour weeks, you're developing the game and then when the game comes out, there's a bunch of fanfare. You don't get time off, you just get back into that next game. And people are burnt out in this industry. So I guarantee you companies like Nvidia are like, "Hey, we see what's happening in the industry, people are leaving, they're ejecting after seven to 10 years, so what do we do? Those senior people aren't around anymore, we need to teach our algorithims just to do this."

Joel: Yeah. For real. Imagine, like if someone said, "You know what? I want to make a Twitter clone," set up AI to watch Twitter and how it works, and that it can actually code that shit to replicate what Twitter is. I'm just pulling Twitter out of the air. But technically you could say like, hey, I want to make a site like my favorite ATS, or my favorite whatever banking site, or whatever it is. And if you can just watch that shit and develop that, that's fucking crazy top, dude.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: That's next, next level shit.

Chad: They said that there are obviously imperfections. It was blurry, yada, yada, yada. That doesn't matter. Okay? This is the start of creation without any human intervention or even the need for it down the road when it becomes crisp, it becomes easy and you don't need Bob stroking those keys.

Joel: It's like the first dog you saw that Boston Dynamics made, right? You're like, that's ridiculous, it doesn't walk very fast. It can't jump. Now that fucker is running through parks and telling people to stay six feet apart, and opening doors and everything else. So this thing in 10 years, man, who knows? Shit, it's scary.

SFX: Happy birthday.

Joel: We out.

Chad: We out.

Outro: Thank you for listening to podcast with Chad and Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting, they talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Anyhoo, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play or wherever you listen to your podcasts. We out.

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