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Facebook Exits Job Board Biz

Unicorn alert! It's been awhile since a new unicorn has come on the scene, so it's refreshing to see Beamery enter unicorn territory as we close out 2022. Should the ATS market be worried? We discuss. Facebook, which entered the jobs space in 2017, finally calls it quits. We discuss what could be next for the social media giant. Then it's time for some Who'd ya' rather? with Kadence and Outdefine. Afterward, we discuss Side Hustle Nation, highlighting a recent survey from Upwork, and the boys saved the naughtiest for last with "Porn Cop."

You're welcome.


INTRO (0s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (22s):

Oh, yeah. Meta has ended its Lyft ride perk for workers while JCPenney has added childcare benefits like in-home daycares, nannies, and babysitters. Penny's is back. Baby toughskins for everyone. Hi kids. You're listening to the Chad & Cheese podcast. This is your co-host, Joel Rico, blaze Cheeseman.

Chad (43s):

And this is Chad "pay your damned rent" Sowash.

Joel (46s):

And on this week's show, be Beamery Me up Scotty. Yeah. That one never gets old. Facebook out and porn cop. Let's do this.

Chad (57s):

So apparently your ability to pronounce Harry Kane didn't help the English against France.

Joel (1m 2s):

Harry Kane.

Chad (1m 4s):

The English are out, Canadians are out. Netherlands are out, and France and Argentina are rolling into the final. So who you got?

Joel (1m 11s):

It's gonna be a great matchup.

Chad (1m 12s):

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel (1m 14s):

I've felt ever since Argentina lost that first game, that first stinker, that they've been on a mission. Oh man. They've got machismo turned up to 11, Messi's clearly on a mission. The country is yearning, you know, for that World Cup title. France is a little bit comfortable since they just just won the last one. So I'm gonna think Argentina has a slight edge in the championship, and I think Morocco probably wins the third place.

Chad (1m 42s):

Hmm. Yeah. I'm gonna go with Croatian, France. I think France just has too many weapons. Not too much in they're young. I mean, Mbappé versus Messi. I mean, wouldn't hate to see Messi winning, obviously, but it just seems like they have way too many weapons on France.

Joel (2m 0s):

Yeah. Now, you know the sport better than I do, but it feels like France kind of just grinds you down. Like they just, they play really sound fundamentally good football. And eventually when you make a mistake, when you are caught, you know, sleeping, they're gonna get you. Whereas Argentina feels like a sports car to me. So it's gonna be a really interesting sort of defensive offensive matchup from my point of view. What are your thoughts? Yeah,

Chad (2m 25s):

Yeah, yeah. No, I think you take a look at France and then you take a look at, in England, from the standpoint of Chris passes, I think France had had a little bit more speed on the outside. I know England does have speed on the outside, but I don't think that Argentina can keep up with and Buffy, you know, around the corner. They just have some really, really good players. And Drew, he's just been lighting it up with those little blonde tips and everything.

Joel (2m 56s):

His highlights.

Chad (2m 59s):

His highlights.

Joel (3m 1s):

Their goalie's really good too. France. Yeah. That, what are they called? Scorpion kicks where it's kind of reverse when you spin backwards?

Chad (3m 9s):

Oh, you mean bicycle kick.

Joel (3m 11s):

Morocco almost had that goal yesterday. That would've been the goal of the pay the tournament.

Chad (3m 15s):

Yeah. Pele made That made, that made that famous. It was a bicycle kick.

Joel (3m 19s):

Yeah, bicycle kick. Yeah,

Chad (3m 20s):

It's is. That was pretty awesome. Not to mention, I mean, the amount of shots that went off the crossbars were like fucking crazy. But great saves, great saves. That happened all the way around.

Joel (3m 32s):

Speaking of checking stuff out, the last episode we talked about ChatGPT and it had just come out. I haven't really played with it yet, and I've been sort of digging into it. Oh, good. It's equal parts scary and equal parts impressive. But there's a really good article in the Atlantic by a journalist 20, you know, 20 year veteran in journalism. And, if you check that out, go search at the Atlantic and ChatGPT. But the guy in the story actually queries what professions are at risk because of this technology. Yeah. And it literally answered, and I wanna read this excerpt from the story. He said, I asked ChatGPTto list 50 jobs that could be replaced by ChatGPT, it spit out a list in less than a second it shot out.

Joel (4m 17s):

Customer service representative, technical support specialist, sales representative or sales representative, receptionist, data entry clerk, call center agent transcriptionist, legal secretary, medical secretary, executive assistant, personal assistant, journalist, novelist, travel agent, insurance agent, retail salesperson, bookkeeper, court reporter, marketing manager...

Chad (4m 39s):

Is that the whole list?

Joel (4m 41s):

Public relations manager, advertising manager, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 50 professions.

Chad (4m 45s):

Jesus Christ. Fuck.

Joel (4m 46s):

And I would probably agree with all of those after just a short period of playing with it. So this thing has the potential to really disrupt a lot of people's lives.

Chad (4m 55s):

Yes. I, I agree. And I bet, I bet that question's been asked a million times thus far. So the ability to spit that out for you quickly was probably very, very easy for Chad being G B T.

Joel (5m 10s):


Chad (5m 10s):

Something else that is incredibly, I don't wanna say disruptive, it's probably, well, it is disruptive, but, but Twitter, Elton John leaves Twitter. Elon Musk is getting booed offstage at Chappelle show. Yeah. He isn't paying rent for offices that he's demanding people come into. He's not paying severances, or at least that's what the report was. He was thinking about not paying severance. He's allowing propaganda accounts back on Twitter, losing advertisers who don't want their ads associated with said propaganda accounts. And, but yet, Elon is launching a new version of Twitter blue that literally nobody is excited about.

Chad (5m 51s):

So we've got the excitement of ChatGPT and the drama of Twitter happening.

Joel (5m 57s):

Well, if you just watch Fox News for a night, you'll think Elon Musk is a genius and the greatest benefit to society in the last a hundred years. So, balance out some of your news there, Chad, because yeah. Elon's not that bad of a guy. He's not that bad of a guy.

Chad (6m 16s):

No. No, neither was Donald Trump. Anyway, shout outs!

sfx (6m 20s):

60% of the time. It works every time.

Joel (6m 23s):

All right. Chad splits or swallows.

Chad (6m 25s):


Joel (6m 26s):

Anyway, a new Gallup survey.

Chad (6m 28s):

I like those.

Joel (6m 31s):

Yeah. Splitters and blenders. Two different relationships with work highlights the preference for flex jobs. Shocker. Right. Gallup found that nine and 10 employees prefer some degree of long-term remote flexibility and nearly eight in 10 expected from their employer going forward. The study also found that hybrid work policies vary widely, and that there is not a universal solution for the optimal number of days per week that employees should work on site. Finally, the study found that employees and managers should both have a say in determining hybrid work policies, no matter what Gallup says, advantage remote work.

Joel (7m 12s):

Shout out for splitters and blenders.

Chad (7m 14s):


Joel (7m 14s):

In the workforce.

Chad (7m 15s):

I love it. We'll talk a little bit more about that, just about every single fucking week. I guarantee it. My shout out is to put your hands together for Ukraine. Kids, the US might be equipping the Ukraine military with patriot missiles. But what about the Ukrainian people? They still need food, warm clothes, medical aid. So if you remember back and not Taco Bell, please do not send those poor kids Taco Bell. Get them hooked on the Taco Bell crack. Oh my God. If you remember back when the Ukraine War started, I did an interview with Andrew Stetsenko,, who was an HR tech leader in Ukraine that was actually running supplies from the border.

Chad (7m 55s):

And I say was a tech leader because he's focused on nothing but helping Ukrainians since the war started food, clothing, medical aid. And that's not possible without people like you, me and our listeners, in the safety of our own homes, giving donations to help Ukraine get fed, get medical supplies, and win this monstrosity of a fucking war. Now, Steven Rothberg, fan of the show and of College Recruiter fame actually pulled together a GoFundMe page that you can find on our website, Click on the Ukrainian flag and give, give, give. So shout out to Steven for coordinating with Andrew that big shout out for Andrew for doing all this work.

Chad (8m 38s):

It's his people. I get that. But man, it's a hard fucking job. The fund, the fund hit $24,000 yesterday, but that's not gonna make a dent in the needs of the Ukrainian. So get out there, go to, click on the Ukrainian flag and give, give, give. Big, big shoutout.

Joel (8m 60s):

There you go. My shoutout goes to urine in Ann Arbor, Michigan. That's right. Kids,

Chad (9m 5s):

They go together.

Joel (9m 6s):

Yeah. Residents of Ann Arbor home of the Michigan Wolverines are complaining about the problem of public urination in the city's downtown area. The issue has been attributed to a lack of ample public restrooms.

Chad (9m 19s):

Yeah. That'll do it.

Joel (9m 21s):

With people often turning to alleyways to relieve themselves in response, the Ann Arbor City Council recently passed a resolution asking the city administrator to look into the development of public restrooms. What a concept? Across the downtown area. The cost of such restrooms and how they would be maintained is still being discussed. Shout out to Pee Pee and Poo Poo and Ann Arbor, a city that was pretty putrid to begin with.

Chad (9m 49s):

My last shout out goes to Andrea Wade. That's right. Kids friend of the show Death Match winner, and now the VP of Product Strategy at iSims. Congratulations, Andrea.

Joel (10m 2s):

That's awesome. That's awesome. We should give her some free shit.

Chad (10m 5s):


Joel (10m 7s):

And we might, if she's signed up for free shit, click the free link. I haven't checked. Click the free link. We got Whiskey from Textkernel. We got beer from our friends at Aspen Tech Labs. We got T-shirts from JobGet. And if it's your birthday month, you might win some rum from Plum.

Chad (10m 25s):


Joel (10m 25s):

But either way, you're gonna be a winner if you go to All right, let's get to some, some birthdays. Speaking of who should have a beer, I'm just gonna read the rest of December.

Chad (10m 37s):


Joel (10m 38s):

Cause our next few shows are like Naughty N Nice. And wrap up and whatnot. So, so here we go. Celebrating a birthday throughout the rest of December. We've got Holland McKee, friend of the show. Yes. Jack Mahoney. Monica evg. I always say that incorrectly. I know Ev, Evie fg. Anyway, Nick eight is enough. Bradford, Alison Paget, Michael Smith. Mike Pollich. Yes. Fsla mtz. Tina Davis, Angela Aguilar. Jeffrey Taton.

Chad (11m 9s):


Joel (11m 9s):

He's born on Christmas Day, so he's our Christmas baby. Wow. Nick Hutchinson. Kim Gray, who was our rum winner for December. Lex Kremmer, Bob Scruggs, Phil Larkin, Allie Rossen, Anoop Gupta of SeekOut there he is. Happy Birthday to him. Lauren Sharp, one of our favorite Aussies. Rathe Sinia. Jonathan DuArt. And Mr. Will Cheesman my father turns 83 this month.

Chad (11m 38s):

Very nice.

Joel (11m 39s):

Happy Birthday all birthday kids.

Chad (11m 41s):

Very nice.

Joel (11m 42s):

Out there in December.

Chad (11m 43s):

And we're getting ready for 2003 with events. Thanks again for Shaker, for ensuring that we have

Joel (11m 52s):


Chad (11m 53s):

Oh yeah. 2003. Jesus Christ. Back to the Future kids. Here we, we go 2023. Can you believe that shit?

Joel (11m 59s):

We only look like we're in our thirties.

Chad (12m 1s):

Oh My God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have five events already locked in for 2023. And after those, yeah, we'll probably be looking a little more haggard.

Joel (12m 14s):

Well, chances are you've been up late voting at

Chad (12m 17s):


Joel (12m 18s):

If you haven't heard about this kids, our friends at are having a vote for your favorite podcast, conference, blog. Yeah. I mean, all kinds of stuff sound off at R as in recruiting, M as in marketing, vote RM Yours truly are there. We'd obviously love, love your vote as well.

Chad (12m 37s):

Throw the hat in the ring. Big boy

Joel (12m 40s):

And I hope that we get some foreign language voters, Chad, because we are in multiple language. Special shout out to our friends

Chad (12m 49s):


Joel (12m 50s):

At Veritone for producing the German, French, Portuguese, and Spanish versions of our show. If that's your language of choice, feel free to check those versions out. They sound eerily and creepily like the real thing for KIDS.

Chad (13m 3s):

Veritone are wizards. It's just witchcraft. It's amazing. I mean, everybody who speaks, speaks French that I know speaks Portuguese, German, what have you. I always say, Hey, listen to this. Tell me what you think. And they're always, that is pretty, that's fucking good. And that's creepy as hell. Yeah,

Joel (13m 20s):

It is. It is creepy. What is creepy as hell is our rankings on the leaderboard for fantasy football?

Chad (13m 25s):

Oh God.

Joel (13m 25s):

We are getting to the end of the season after this week. It's the final four for the top spot in fantasy football. But here is our leaderboard for last week in fantasy football. First to worst, we got Dennis the Gridiron Menace. Tupper,

Chad (13m 44s):


Joel (13m 44s):

Broadway Joe Wilkie, Christie, girl power Kelling, Chris "by the Skin of my Teeth" Manion stairs like Warren Moon and Doug Flute came south to kick some ass. Boudreaux. Joel, thanks a lot" Stevenson Cheesman, Chad "as always, just a little bit short of Cheesman" Sowash. Mike, Tom, Zach Schaffer, Matt, Stafford Hill, James Laid Gilliam, Jason like Notorious BIG Ready to Die. Putnam Dan, open toe Shoemaker. That is the leaderboard for fantasy football, which is thankfully almost over for everyone who's sick of fantasy football.

Joel (14m 25s):

Yeah, you're about three points from me. I think we both have a chance if things fall correctly. I'm not all that hopeful.

Chad (14m 33s):

Yeah. Christie's team played out of their fucking minds last week and ended up beating me. So yeah. Good game, Christie. TOPICS!

Joel (14m 53s):

Holy shit, I've missed this one. That's right. There's a unicorn alert people! London based talent recruitment company, Beamery has raised $50 million in series defunding led by Teachers Ventures Growth total raised is 223 million for the company founded back in 2014. The funding round gives the company a valuation of more than 1 billion dollars thus unicorn status. The company has seen a 250% increase in Fortune 500 clients since its series C funding round in June of '21. Its clients include General Motors, Johnson and Johnson and the BBC where Chad gets all his news when he's in Europe.

Joel (15m 39s):

And it has recently added Uber. Beamery says it's AI powered talent platform uses ethical AI to help companies plan for business needs, understand workforce skills and capabilities, and attract and retain staff. The company employees 400 or so people. Chad, your take on the Beamery news.

Chad (15m 60s):

Yeah, can we stop the ethical AI bullshit? My God, it's just, please stop it. Okay. When Beamery took their sea round at 138 million June of last year, I said that they had obviously looked past a SmashFly like acquisition from a bigger possibly, you know, like agency player or something like that. But they've been forced at looking toward acquisition by a bigger platform like adp, sap, or Oracle, or just becoming that bigger fish now adding another 50 million, totaling $223 million in funding. They're focused has to be on moving toward a core talent platform.

Chad (16m 42s):

Something that would replace the artifact we know as ATS. Beamery says, you know, if you go to their website, you see that they have a broad portfolio of solutions, which I believe could perspectively be their, they're ultimately their, their downfall because a jack of all trades means you're a master of nothing. And, it's not a great way to evolve a product. Plus Beamery is using the build versus buy strategy. Unlike Phenom who has four acquisitions under their belt, Beamery has one, which means more funding increase headcount to build product and gain traction in different markets all around the world. So I think like many vendors over the last couple of years who were waiting for that 10 x payday and they didn't get it, that Beamery only had one option, get more funding.

Chad (17m 30s):

But the question is why? If Fortune 500 revenue growth is 250% and their retention is at 135%, which means they retained and they actually gained wallet share. Is this responsible growth or is this hedging against a possible tight market and hoarding cash, while it's still available? So my big question is why do they need, need the money if they have this great growth? Are they just trying to hoard cash to ensure for a long winter? Or are they really going to be talking about the growth in tech?

Joel (18m 5s):

So I've been critical of Beamery in the past.

Chad (18m 8s):


Joel (18m 9s):

And I think, I'm gonna push the pause on Beamery. Adam Gordon gave me a hard time for being tough on them. And maybe that's just cuz they're a UK company and he's loyal to everything UK but I think this is a, a move that is in part because they realize that times are gonna get tough and raising money now is better than trying to raise it later. It's kind of impressive that they were able to raise this much money in the environment that we're currently living in. We talk a lot about needing a bigger boat when we talk about companies that are competing with Remote, DEEL, Oyster, et cetera. And I think that Beamery is looking to compete on a scale equal to that, kind of global platform.

Joel (18m 54s):

Everything in one, all one platform to rule them all. And this round basically backs up one hell of a big super yacht into the water. I'm a big fan also of Allison Holbrook been a big fan of her for a long time. She's cut her teeth at Monster Scout. Vistaprint, Fidelity, she's currently their VP of corporate marketing. And if she buys into the company she joined a year or so ago, she's been there two years. I think that says a lot to me. Her quote on LinkedIn in terms of the funding round was "the latest round of funding will allow us to continue innovating our product, expanding our team, and pursuing our mission to give everyone access to meaningful work skills and careers."

Joel (19m 36s):

I'm just gonna like think that this is gonna work out. I've been really critical of them. I'm gonna push the pause button. They're clearly doing some good things in terms of the clients that they have, the tech that they have. I think to your point in terms of where they go with innovation, they need to have a marketplace. They need to open up the platform to third party developers to build onto the platform. If they do that, I think that they've really got something good and hopefully some of that innovation and money goes toward building a marketplace that other vendors can build on top of it.

Chad (20m 11s):

Yeah. Well, a couple of things listening to the CEO and then also some of the quotes from the CEO and other leaders in the organization, that was not even close to being a part of the dialogue. It was all around talent, analytics, upskilling, those types of things, which means they need to move toward L and D. Right? They, I mean, they're these things that they need to do and they're not going to build L and D or maybe they are, fuck, nothing excited me about anything that I heard. Just that they got funding. And I think that again, it's like storing away the nuts for the long cold winter. The the next piece is, you know, I think that the market is so gray out there with all of these names you mentioned Remote, Deel and Oyster.

Chad (20m 51s):

I don't see these guys in the same realm as I do a Beamery. I see Beamery being with Phenom, Eightfold and Paradox, where they are more shifted toward the next generation of what we now call an applicant tracking system.

Joel (21m 5s):

What I like track system. Yeah. Well, I like to call a core talent platform, right? Where the, that applicant tracking is such a small piece of what these systems do nowadays. So I see Beamery and Phenom and Eightfold and Paradox. I see them as really the the new crew coming in to build tech stacks of today and perspectively, you know, kicking some of those old ATSs to the curb.

Chad (21m 31s):

But I mean the Remote, Deel, Oyster, I see them as more EOR pay onboarding. I think perspectively you could see consolidation or acquisition by one of those one way or the other for a convergence.

Joel (21m 48s):

Yeah. Could you see K1 or Apollo or somebody that owns ATSs back, back the truck up and acquire Beamery?

Chad (21m 54s):

You know, I'm gonna throw a curve ball. I think it would be Main Capital or Bain, you know, so ones that are more globally focused, right?

Joel (22m 2s):


Chad (22m 2s):

I'm not saying that K1 and that they're not globally focused, but they do so much in the US because the US is such a large market. I think this play, and I think every other play when you're talking about total, you know, addressable market is going to be global at this scale. And I think that Bain and Main Capital, both of them have demonstrated that they're really looking at the global market.

Joel (22m 24s):

Oh, Main Capital's a good call. It's gonna be fun to watch and talk about Chad.

Chad (22m 28s):

Hell Yeah. I love it.

Joel (22m 32s):

You know what else is fun to talk about? Facebook and I don't know, they're foray into jobs, I guess what we'll call it. All right, so in the news this week, a note from Facebook headquarters went out to users, the jobs on Facebook product is changing on February 22nd, 2023. What kind of changes are you asking? Well, they're shutting it down, Chad, that's the change that we're looking at from the company. Jobs on Facebook will no longer be available on the Facebook app, Facebook mobile website or Facebook desktop site for both employers and job seekers. Yep. No more jobs on Facebook. They'll be history February 22nd.

Joel (23m 14s):

While that was a fun ride while it lasted. Will Google for Jobs be next? Chad, your thoughts on Facebook Getting the hell out of the job space.

Chad (23m 23s):

I thought it was funny that David Cohen from Adweek wrote quote, "when you come at the king, you best not miss Facebook came at LinkedIn and missed" end quote. Okay, so let's try to get something straight here. David. LinkedIn's ad revenue is $3.8 billion in 2021. Okay, 3.8, not even $4 billion yet, right? Facebook ad revenue $115 billion. Okay, so let those numbers marinate for a minute. That's the difference between over $110 billion dollars. Plus also, remember, Facebook found themselves in the government's crosshairs with the ability to hyper-target job seekers.

Chad (24m 4s):

So even though there are dollars there to grab, is it worth the risk in the optics around employment where Facebook has no fucking clue what they're doing? Then remember Google came in with talents and recruitings and Google hire and the Google job search API and that got canned all together. Well the risk versus reward just isn't there for companies who see piles of cash in other areas of the business. Google's ad revenue in 2021, $209 billion. Google's cloud profits, which they've shifted a lot of their resources to profits.

Chad (24m 46s):

$19 billion dollars in profits, not revenues, profits, $19 billion in profits. So yes, LinkedIn does have the reins on the professional net ad network, but you have to understand that $4 billion dollars in a product is small beans compared to things like general advertising in cloud business. So LinkedIn isn't the king, it's just the best noblemen in the village.

Joel (25m 8s):

By the way, we have some some hidden footage of the meeting at Facebook before they launched their jobs product.

sfx (25m 18s):

60% of the time it works every time.

Joel (25m 20s):

So Facebook introduced their jobs platform or solution in Canada and the US in February of 2017. We had fun talking about that on the show. They expanded over 40 countries one year later. However, Meta shut down the feature in February everywhere except Canada and the US and removed the ability to distribute free jobs via a partner integration with the Facebook jobs api. Life is hard for a job board. Chad, look, Facebook has issues. It's stock has crashed this year. Young people are moving away from using Facebook. It's a legal minefield. The job's part of it, the metaverse is failing.

Joel (26m 1s):

Employees are leaving and recruiting is challenging. Throwing the fact that selling to HR people sucks and job search really wasn't worth their time in terms of the reward financially. I certainly agree from your perspective on that. However, I'm gonna throw a little curve ball to you from the looks of it. Their workplace product is evolving nicely, their little Slack enterprise dashboard. So I don't see any reason to think that they're gonna shut that down. They're gonna continue to grow that. I'm gonna take you back to 2000 and something, maybe 2003 where you went back. You had some premonition of what we're gonna talk about.

Joel (26m 43s):

So remember when Google had a video product, Google video, and they realized that YouTube had a much better mouse trap and they just decided let's just drop a billion plus on on YouTube. What if Facebook shut down the jobs component because they want to build up their workplace solution and maybe they're gonna buy a job board on the cheap to plug into their workplace solution. I don't know, it's a little crazy. It's the holidays. I've got some eggnog left in my liver, but I'm just gonna throw out that maybe Facebook could buy a job board and that's the reason why they shut down their jobs component.

Chad (27m 19s):


Joel (27m 19s):


Chad (27m 20s):

Nah, I would say there's no way in hell, I think anything that they're doing would be to be able to have like connectivity for workplace to get more engagement into Facebook. Like Slack, right? And Slack was an easy, I think buy for Salesforce. Yeah. So I don't see that. I see them trying to go more toward engagement, dragging people in again, making it really what it used to be for most people, which was a lifestyle platform you rollover in the morning, you check your Facebook, people don't do that anymore. They roll over in the morning, they watch puppy videos on TikTok, right? So I think that would be the play.

Joel (27m 57s):

By the way, here's some hidden footage of me waking up this morning and checking my phone.

sfx (28m 2s):

What are you doing? Step bro.

Joel (28m 4s):

Anyway, we'll be right back and you better hope that I'm wrong on this prediction cuz I'll never let you live it down if I'm right about this.

Chad (28m 16s):

Oh my God.

Joel (28m 17s):

Stay tuned kids.

Chad (28m 17s):

I thought it was gonna be like the, I thought it was gonna be like the Blazing Saddles around the campfire.

Joel (28m 30s):

The bean footage. Yeah, the beautiful bean footage.

sfx (28m 33s):

Oh shit.

Joel (28m 33s):

All right, Chad, let's play a game of 'Who'd you rather'? Everyone loves a good game of of who'd You rather one of those. So here's how we play kids. We talk about two companies that have received funding recently, and we'd basically pick one of them in terms of who'd you rather you ready to play check?

sfx (28m 52s):

Hell Yeah.

Joel (28m 53s):

All right. In one corner we've got Out Define the San Francisco based startup Out Define has raised $2.5 million dollars to build a decentralized hiring community for Web3 Talent. The round was led by Web3 investors, TCG Crypto and Jump Crypto that sounds reputable with participation from Big Brain Holdings, Formless Capital, Bluecore Mask, eco Fund, crypto Angels, and some syndicates. Out Defined as building a token backed hiring marketplace on the Solana blockchain. Could I put any more buzzwords in this?

Joel (29m 34s):

Where talent directly negotiates the scope and compensation of their job and receives tokens as a reward that is Out Defined. And in this corner we have Kadence. That's Kadence with a k, the startup that just launched out of the Charge of Fi, wireless charging network. That's called a pivot. Chad, they've raised $10 million dollars in seed funding. The company will use the funds to coordinate people, places, and projects to enable hybrid coworking within teams. The startup pulled in 300 customers in the 18 months since its relaunch, including Calibra and Starling Bank. That's where you do your banking, isn't it Chad?

Joel (30m 14s):

Kadence claims its software can reduce office space by 68% while increasing the number of employees coming into the office to collaborate by 25% month over month. So Chad, Out Define or Kadence, who'd you rather?

Chad (30m 29s):

So first and foremost Out Define, do we agree that Web3 is gonna be big one day?

sfx (30m 34s):


Chad (30m 34s):

Do do we not think is?

Joel (30m 36s):

It may be the most overhyped tech in our lifetimes. I don't know.

Chad (30m 39s):

Until it's not. I think. I think until it's not.

Joel (30m 43s):

But the problem is I need to see some real world applications.

Chad (30m 46s):


Joel (30m 46s):

You know what I mean? The web died, but at least I had bought something on the web. At least I had email. There was some proof that I was gonna use this thing. Web3. Yeah, not so much.

Chad (30m 57s):

You've gotta ask yourself at this point, if it is something shouldn't Dice be the predominant place for Web3. So I went there to do a search and just did basic Web3 and they had 19 jobs, 1-9, 19 jobs. And I went to Indeed and I got a smattering of shit that just had made no sense whatsoever with regard to, you know, Web3 development and, and whatnot. So I thought, you know what, there might be kind of like an Upwork for Web3 three talent and anybody who wants to be on Web3, they love the tokens thing and all that other junk. So yeah, this this might actually be a thing. Now I checked out Kadence. One, one thing that we didn't see or didn't say on Kadence is that Chargify had $27 million dollars prior to this pivot.

Chad (31m 47s):

Yeah. Right. So there's $27 million dollars that's already in this repurposed tech that they've been pushing since 2013. So this is interesting and because hybrid will be the easy compromise for most companies, but hybrid work presents an entirely different set of logistical problems. Companies want to downsize their office space, which means knowing capacity, planning for capacity, desk swapping, scheduling in-house client meetings and the list goes on. Zero to 300 clients in 18 months Sounds good. But at a $4 a month starter price, that's not a big MRR to go with, but it could be leading into something bigger in bleeding into to organizations.

Chad (32m 31s):

I'm going to bet on hybrid over Web3, which is why I would rather all Kadence, all day and all night, baby.

Joel (32m 42s):

All right, you got Kadence on that one. Yeah. Dude, seriously Out Define has literally on their website quote, "hire global talent across Web2 and Web3. Seriously. So, FTX, I assume that if you listen to the show, you know what the hell's going on with them? FTX and their ilk kill the idea of decentralized in the blockchain. People gave FTX their money and then saw it be get embezzled gone into thin air. The whole trust system that blockchain touted just smells like bullshit now. Out Define has access to this quote, "decentralized community". It's not some in the cloud, no management, no one owns it kind of thing.

Joel (33m 23s):

Just like companies, who are saying AI are soon going to have to face the music with government regulators. If they keep saying they're AI and they're not really. I think some pain is coming for bullshit vendors like this who are basically LinkedIn wannabes in an unmarked van luring candidates and with some fake crypto candy. Call me crazy. But yeah, like there's no way that I'm gonna go with fucking Out Define as my who'd you rather? By the way, Cal Anderson, co-founder and CTO at Slack is a new Kadence investor, which I found rather interesting. So yeah, who'd you rather? It's a little bit of a lose lose on both of those maybe.

Joel (34m 4s):

But if we had to choose after a few drinks, we're going with Kadence. All right, Chad, let's talk about Upwork and Side Hustle Nation. Shall we? There's a lot of attention going there. All right. So our friends at Upwork that's at stock ticker UPWK are starting to ask questions. 39% of American professionals participated in freelance work this past year. That's up from 3% in 2021. And it's also a record high. That percentage was 34% in 2014 when the survey was first done. And the company said a total of 60 million Americans did at least some freelance work in 2022.

Joel (34m 49s):

As people continue to want flexibility, freelancing became more appealing and essential as it represents a shifting mindset in the workforce. The autonomous nature of freelancing becomes more evident as more companies usher in a return to the office. The real appeal in freelancing is quite simple: Money. A majority of respondents, 83% cited earning extra money as the top reason for freelancing. And 73% cited control over one's financial goals and future dealing with inflation and stagnant wages. More Americans are looking to side gigs in order to stay afloat. Some other highlights from the survey, over half the work is knowledge-based, such as computer programming, marketing, IT, and business consulting.

Joel (35m 33s):

And 26% of all US freelancers hold a postgraduate degree that's up from 20% just a year ago. Big impressive numbers, but you're not typically a big fan of surveys. Chad, where do you come down on Side Hustle Nation?

Chad (35m 46s):

So OnlyFans has been the biggest payday side hustle that we've talked about on the show thus far. But there are more options than freaky foot fetishes for our money on OnlyFans. Right? And let's be clear, this podcast started as a side hustle, right? So we couldn't make it on OnlyFans, so podcasts had to do. But you talk about surveys, LendingTree literally just did a survey that showed 44% of Americans have a side hustle. Who are the side hustlers? Mainly, You've got 62% of, were Gen Zs, 55% millennials and parents with children younger than 18 that was 54%.

Chad (36m 28s):

So there's a good amount of Americans who are looking side hustle and there's sites out there that are available to help people find their hustle, to be able to answer questions around legal entity types, marketing your side hustle, how to monetize, how to build, taxes. And then there one that you didn't mention was online tutoring, which seems to be you can get up to $180 an hour on platforms like Outskill, Wyzant Lesson Face for doing a tutoring side side hustle. From time talked about referees, sports referees like soccer, football, getting anywhere from $1,500 a month.

Joel (37m 12s):

Are there sites for refs?

Chad (37m 14s):

Yeah. And then, and then one lady is making $22,000 a month by making art and working about two hours a day. She sells her art through her website, Etsy, Society6 shops. And she's also gotten into retail stores like Target and Home Goods. So I mean, these side hustles have actually blown up into something bigger. And they're starting to be platforms that are out there to take advantage of to some extent, but also to amplify some of the really good side hustles that are out there.

Joel (37m 44s):

Okay. I think you have to consider the source a little bit. Upwork makes more money.

Chad (37m 49s):

Oh yes.

Joel (37m 50s):

If everyone thinks everyone is on Upwork doing gigs. So I'm taking some of this with a grain of salt. However, the side hustle is real. Smart people are learning to use these services to either make additional money, like the survey says in addition to their day job or making a living on their terms. You mentioned our side hustle that turned into, I guess "a job" in quotes. And the increase in layoffs that we've seen means more people are going to investigate the option of going gig. You'll remember LinkedIn really blew up in 2008 when the big recession hit and everyone was looking for jobs. At some point, I think we'll hit a ceiling where there's so much competition and it's too tough and just too numerous for people to cut through the clutter of the gig economy.

Joel (38m 35s):

But I don't think we're there yet. It's real, you know, my kid works food service and it's fair to say he's not a big fan of it. I would be surprised if he's not driven to how do I make money on the side, on my terms, on my time without a boss looking over my shoulder. By the way, Upwork and Fivver stock, they're both public companies have been in the shitter all year, which could be further evidence that these services do have a ceiling on growth or at least Wall Street sees a ceiling on it. So it's gonna be fun to watch, but I think it's real. I think more and more people, I think more interestingly from that is a lot of the side hustlers are now professionals, people with MBAs, people with, you know, advanced degrees.

Joel (39m 22s):

That's important. And companies should be very aware that those folks are moving to gig because those folks traditionally have had a job with benefits and retirement and all that good stuff. So if that's switching, that's a big red flag for employers to be aware of.

Chad (39m 39s):

Yeah. Well you mentioned money, but autonomy is obviously huge when it comes to actually being able to, if you can, if you can survive on your side hustle and you can, I'd rather do that any day than actually having to clock in.

Joel (39m 58s):

We'll be right back with porn cop. It's getting hot in the desert Chad. A Phoenix police officer is under investigation for allegedly creating and distributing pornography while on duty and working from home.

sfx (40m 14s):

What are you doing? Step bro?

Joel (40m 17s):

Officer Christian Goggins 30 years old is accused of disseminating adult videos through a public Twitter page using the handle Rico Blaze. That was your nickname in high school, wasn't it Chad? By the way, his profile page bio is in quotes, "I create art and my insert eggplant emoji is the pin" and he has 24,000 followers if you could believe that. Goggins allegedly had been traveling to Las Vegas to produce and star in his own hardcore pornographic videos. The Phoenix Police Department has confirmed that Goggins is the subject of an internal investigation, but would not further provide details.

Joel (41m 0s):

Chad, I'm sure you fought the urge to insert a bunch of gun jokes into your commentary, but what are your thoughts on Rico Blaze?

Chad (41m 13s):

Yeah, I just think it's interesting that poor Officer Goggins is going to have to experience an internal probe. But, seriously, we actually had a story where a female cop was ousted out of the force for having a sexy OnlyFan's account. Yeah, but she wasn't filming on the clock. So when you're a police officer, you should not be trying to get your baton wet. I mean, that's all there is to it.

Joel (41m 37s):

He's got a big gun, man. You know, unfortunately Upwork doesn't have a porn category, otherwise we could have gotten some data from their latest survey on this one. Anyway, I'm a kid from the seventies, so were you, I frankly just assumed all cops were doing porn on the side. Like are you telling me Eric Estrada in Chips, the cop in the Village People Starsky and Hutch, William Shatner as TJ Hooker weren't doing some low-budget skin flicks on the side.

Chad (42m 4s):

Oh hey. Yeah.

Joel (42m 6s):

On the side. And don't even get me started on Crockett and Tubbs from Miami Vice, please.

Chad and Cheese (42m 14s):

We out. We out.

OUTRO (43m 1s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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