Fear, Loathing, and ZipRecruiter


According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the economy added 233K jobs in January, 468K in February, and 916K in March. So, everyone who got a pink slip last year should be rejoicing and fully employed, right? Think again.

  • Virus fears, childcare uncertainty and unawareness are keeping candidates on the sidelines.

  • It's also sparking solutions like ZipRecruiter to reach for solutions,

  • Degreed gained unicorn status (that makes eight in 2021) this week,

  • Amazon beat back unionization #sad

  • Salesforce rolled out the welcome mat for vaccinated employees

  • ...and Dominos used robots to deliver pizzas in what looks like "a toaster with wheels" in Houston.

Now bow down to your robot overlords, but hold the anchovies. As always, thank Sovren, JobAdx and Jobvite for all this cheesy goodness.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:

Disability Solutions helps forward thinking employers create world class hiring and retention programs for people with disabilities.


INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.


Joel (23s):

Look in California and feeling Minnesota. Welcome to HRS most dangerous podcast. This is Chad and Cheese on your cohost. Joel "Pfizer fan" Cheeseman.


Chad (35s):

And I'm Chad "fast act" Sowash.


Joel (38s):

And on this week's show ZipRecruiter wants you to act fast. Salesforce wants you to get Vaxxed and Houston, we have a pizza. Yes. Get ready for a podcast with some extra cheese. We'll be right back.


SOVREN (53s):

You already know that Sovren makes the world's best resume CV parser, but did you know that Sovren also makes the world's best AI matching engine? Only Sovren's AI matching engine goes beyond the buzzwords. With Sovren you control how the engine thinks with every match the Sovren engine tells you what matched and exactly how each matching document was scored. And if you don't agree with the way it's scored the matches, you can simply move some sliders to tell it, to score the matches your way. No other engine on earth gives you that combination of insight and control. With Sovren, matching isn't some frustrating "black box, trust us, it's magic, one shot deal" like all the others. No, with Sovren, matching is completely understandable, completely controllable, and actually kind of fun. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner. dinner.


Joel (1m 52s):

Super bowl, super bowl, super bowl. Shout out to the Lombardi trophy, which is obviously coming to Cleveland after the Jed Davey on Clowney signing, baby. Come on.


Chad (2m 5s):

Now that's a great pickup. Great pickup. I'm excited to see where Justin Fields goes. It seems like the talk, the draft. He's the Tanglin where?


Joel (2m 18s):

New England, that's my prediction. Fields to New England.


Chad (2m 21s):

I'm saying San Francisco.


Joel (2m 22s):

Oh, number three. Pick huh?


Chad (2m 24s):

Yep. Yep. I'm saying San Francisco. Yeah. Yeah.


Joel (2m 27s):

I'm excited about J D Davian until he gets hurt in week one against the Bengals and then sits out the whole season. But anyway, it's the preseason. So Browns fans get excited.


Chad (2m 38s):

Nothing like jinxin yourself already.


Joel (2m 41s):

That's what we do. That's what we do. And all the people, let's talk about winners though. Victoria Conley, she's a winner. We're a winner just having beer with her over zoom. That's who the real winner is on that one. Thanks Victoria. She had plenty. She had ample beer from a Chad and Cheese beer dropped. That's just good stuff. And I still don't know what John means and Philly, I still don't know.


Chad (3m 8s):

She's sending us some John beer. So I mean that, in itself, I'm just, I'm happy with a little of that, John.


Joel (3m 16s):

Yeah. See, I didn't even know it was a beer. I'm more confused now than I was before.


Chad (3m 21s):

So yeah, anybody want to be cool enough to be like Victoria, go to Chadcheese.com, click on free. You could win listen to this beer by Adzuna dropped on your front porch kids, oh, bourbon by Sovren, dropped on your front porch kids. That's right. All safe. COVID free. A T-shirt shirt. Jesus by emissary.ai. Telling you right now, free stuff. I love, not only I love giving free stuff to our listeners, but I love having an opportunity to have beer tasting and bourbon tasting and just time with them because we had some good conversations last night.


Joel (4m 1s):

Yeah. And speaking of free stuff. I got to give a shout out to, and this is one for the old timers. Jason Goldberg, everybody. For those of you that don't remember Jobster back in the mid aughts, raised $50 million. Jason Goldberg, at the time was the most entertaining, volatile fill in whatever word you want to, but the dude got attention and it was fun. He drove that company to the ground, but he continues to raise money. It's unbelievable. The guy is the ultimate winner. He just raised $6.3 million for Moxie, which is a virtual exercise app. After Jobster, he raised money for social media and he started Fabulous and then he raised like 350 million for fab and ran that into the ground.


Joel (4m 45s):

Started Him, he did some crypto thingy and now he's on the Moxie. So for the old timers who remembered Jason Goldberg, he keeps entertaining the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you, Jason.


Chad (4m 58s):

He's the ultimate carnival barker, whatever, it's like he carries vaporware in his back pocket.


Joel (5m 5s):

The tipping point was the blog post about dropping his Pradas loafers into the ocean. Do you remember that one?


Chad (5m 13s):

No, I defintely, remember that. Again, he's more of one of those guys that I would love to forget, but he just keeps, like a rash, keeps coming back.


Joel (5m 22s):

He's still the best a keynote speaker at a direct employers conference.


Chad (5m 27s):

Yeah, no, I think he had like a five minute segment that was the best. Some, news out there, after 10 years as Broadbean's, CEO Dom Barton has exited stage left. That's right, kids. Broadbeans, I think they're like they're their head of sales left earlier this year. CEO, Dom, Barton just left, he joins buddy Kelly Robinson friend of the show at a Red Dot Media. It sounds like you're putting the band back together, kids so good for Dom. Bad for Broadbeans.


Joel (6m 3s):

Love Kelly, great taste in bourbon. Great tastes. Yeah.


Chad (6m 6s):

I'm also hearing that Mary Delaney has taken over the reigns at Broadbean and her execution is going to be spend a shit ton of cash. Raise our revenue and let's sell this fucking thing now. So anybody who's out there, who's looking for something like Broadbean yeah. Look, look for something else.


Joel (6m 27s):

Didn't your boy, Tom Kenny, get a new gig somewhere?


Chad (6m 30s):

Yeah. So man, I got to say Tom Kenny, former CEO of SmashFly. He was the guy who actually got the Symphony Talent deal done. Right? That guy. Remember him? So on LinkedIn, the NATO allied command transformation profile, I guess you could call it posted this yesterday. NATO Allied Command. Okay. Quote "speaking at Tide Sprint, Tom Kenny explains how data and organizational interoperability can help the war fighter to do their job at the highest level possible. Data and AI innovator, entrepreneur, CEO, combat veteran, and most recently chief data officer at US Special Operations Command."


Chad (7m 19s):

Tom Kenny has fucking done it all. I mean, this dude just totally blows it out of the water, everywhere he goes.


Joel (7m 27s):

And I effectively cleaned my cat's litter box this morning. So there's that, there's that. It's almost the same thing. Almost the same thing. And shout out to our buddy Jamie Leonard of Rec Fest fame and over in the UK, he had a Jerry Maguire moment on Facebook this week. I don't know if you saw this, but he said, quote, I don't mind admitting it, but I am burnt out right now. 13 months of trying to lead an events company through a pandemic. Yeah. It feels like we're out the other side and that's great for business. But also when the adrenaline stops and the body says, yep, that's enough. I'm struggling to do the basics at work. I'm running at 20% at best.


Joel (8m 8s):

And that isn't fair on the team that have killed themselves to get us through. I think it might be time to recharge the batteries. Well, Jamie, I hope you recharge those batteries baby, because we're coming into the roaring twenties. And I know I speak for Chad and myself, when I say we can't wait to get back to the good old UK.


Chad (8m 26s):

You're a kid man. And I mean, he's just putting out there what many people are feeling. We all need to step the fuck back. Many people have been working much harder because they are at home and work's there 24/7. So hopefully, you know, at this time, many people will be able to take a step back, hopefully be fully vaccinated. Like I will next week and get on the road to Charleston or wherever you want to go. Just get the fuck out and enjoy yourself because you deserve it.


Joel (8m 57s):

Chad, we have a final shout out from, from Scotland. Are you ready?


Scot (9m 1s):

Welcome to all things Scottish. Our slogan is if it's not Scottish it's crap!


Joel (9m 6s):

Our buddies candidate ID, Adam Gordon raised a little cash this week. The headline said 1.3 million pounds, but it's a little misleading. They raised about 700 and they had another 600 from the same firm a year before that. But hell it's makes for a better headline to say 1.3, either way based on the podcast that we've done recently, people love Candidate ID. Love Adam. They're going to grow the team from tech to sales to up growing globally. Couldn't be happier for them, make it happen and just wear a kilt when you do it. Okay?


Chad (9m 40s):

Any smart organization that has anything to do with candidate engagement should be looking at this firm to acquire. And I have to say I do have shares. Okay. But it is something in our industry we've needed for a very long time. And Adam, I don't want to say he's the only game in town, but he's pretty much the best game.


Joel (9m 58s):

Yeah. I can't help, but think that he could raise a lot more money if he wanted to. to


Chad (10m 2s):

Build it and then sell it and have a lot less to pay off at the end.


Joel (10m 7s):

Clearly soon to be the biggest thing out of Scotland, since William Wallace, without question.


Chad (10m 12s):

Wouldn't go that far. Okay. Here's my last list. Get ready. I'm going to ramble this one off. Big shout out to Matthew Goddard, TA leader over at Personio thanks for listening over in Berlin. That's right. Unicorn alert for Personio earlier this year, they were actually tagged as a unicorn. Tracy Klein. She loves the style of our podcast, the style.


Joel (10m 39s):

Okay, like that, style.


Chad (10m 42s):

Dennis Bauer, CTO of Job Lift also over in Deutschland. Thanks for listening buddy. Monica Berzinska, I think it is.


Joel (10m 52s):

Yeah. Is she in Berlin?


Chad (10m 54s):

She's actually in San Francisco and she works for LinkedIn. So thanks for recommending the pod and last but not least from New Zealand, thanks for listening to the show, Simon Oldham co-founder of Q Jumpers.


Joel (11m 9s):

I like it. I like it. Are we ready for topics?


Chad (11m 12s):

TOPICS!


Scotsman (11m 13s):

Welcome to all things Scottish. Our slogan is if it's not Scottish, it's crap!


Joel (11m 18s):

I like that better than the boxers on this week. All right. Too many jobs, too few candidates. There's an overarching theme in the economy right now that no one's applying to jobs that are actually available. So from the vendor side, ZipRecruiter has launched a pretty interesting new feature to their service. So


Chad (11m 39s):

Yeah.


Joel (11m 40s):

Zip says it's seen a growing number of recruiters miss out on promising candidates due to competition. So now when employers are combing through applicants on Zip act fast label, notifies them if candidates are being actively recruited by other employers. The label indicates that the candidate has received a signal of intent from multiple other employers in recent days and that they'd better reach out. They being the employer immediately or lose their chance. So basically they're algorithmically saying, Hey, this candidate is hot, they're getting a lot of attention. Yeah, you better, you better buy now, before someone takes it off the market, are we a fan of this feature?


Chad (12m 21s):

I'm going to call this fear and loathing at ZipRecruiter. Here's a quote from the press release "our act fast label benefits employers, by letting them know if they are at risk of losing a candidate they like" insert fear here. I think we're seeing the market. And we also remember because we hear it all the time. The promises that ZipRecruiter puts out there, as soon as you post a job within 24 hours, you will have X amount of qualified candidates. That at this point is, is possibly becoming an issue, so what they're doing is they're trying to gin up this, this new opportunity to say, Hey look, employer, we're sending you candidates, get on this shit fast cause they're not going to be around for long.


Chad (13m 7s):

They're doing that to cover their own ass, which I appreciate, which I appreciate. But overall, I think this is sparking more of the kind of like fear narrative, which is justified to an extent.


Joel (13m 21s):

Yeah.


Chad (13m 22s):

But I really believe this is something that's gonna last much longer than just a few months.


Joel (13m 29s):

Yeah, no question. It's sort of the reality of the current recruiting landscape. So according to the Bureau of labor statistics, the economy added 233,000 jobs in January, 468,000 in February and 916,000 in March. That's an uptrend, if you're keeping track, at home over the summer, the pace of hiring could accelerate even further if vaccination rates keep up, which I think you and I think they will. And the economy continues to reopen. A ZipRecruiter labor economist, Julia Pollock, told our buddies over at AIM Group that there are three primary reasons that this phenomenon is happening. Number one, older people are getting Vaxxed and younger people less so.


Joel (14m 12s):

Obviously if you're retired and vaccinated, you're not looking for a job, so you're not in the employment market. As it is number two, uncertainty around around school openings. I can certainly speak to this firsthand with all of my kids having sort of a stop and go policy at the schools that we attend. And if you have issues with daycare, that's a whole other thing. And that's keeping certainly a lot of mothers in this case, out of the workforce. And we've talked about that extensively of how layoffs have affected women more than men. And number three, just a loss of confidence as the job prospects improve. So basically, you know, I was laid off a year ago. I worked hell to get a job for the first 90 days.


Joel (14m 54s):

Nothing was there. So fuck it. I'm going to go trade Bitcoin and live with mom and play X-Box. Some of those people will eventually realize that there are now jobs open, but apparently that is taking them some time. I will also throw in a, I think a story you shared on our, on our private feed was that a lot of employers are seeing employees leave saying that I can make more on unemployment over the summer. So fuck it. I'll come back when it's done. That seems to be a reality as well for some employers. Yeah.


Chad (15m 26s):

Yeah. This is a self fulfilling prophecy kids, pandemic isn't over and much like you just said, why as soon as possible return to a job that pays me, starvation wages? It's a call to all employers that I guarantee you is falling on deaf ears. The narrative is being shaped by those pretty much in the ivory tower. Scott Galloway, this week, I was listening to the Pivot Podcast and he actually said, a Bessemer, Alabama, couple working for Amazon, making a combined $60,000 a year, you know, that's a good life. And Scott being a master of what I would like to call ivory tower economics.


Chad (16m 7s):

That's you know, someone looking down from privilege and saying, working 40 hours a week, pissing in bottles, just to keep your head above water is a good life. And I think that is one of the issues that we're having in our society today is that employers, I don't know, maybe like the CEO of Kroger, who's making $14 million a year.


Joel (16m 31s):

He's a rich, stupid motherfucker.


Chad (16m 33s):

He's rich, but he's also going to have problems moving product and doing the things that he needs to do because he refuses to pay his people an extra $4 an hour. So we have issues that can be solved. Let's make this clear can be solved by actually paying people better wages.


Joel (16m 57s):

I hate to bring up Ladders in a podcast.


Chad (16m 59s):

You do not.


Joel (17m 1s):

But, I couldn't help but think someone at the Ladders is thinking, Hey, Zips onto something. What if we charged 20 bucks a month to tell job seekers that we're telling employers that they're red, hot and getting a lot of attention to get more money out of job seekers? I don't know it could be happening.


Chad (17m 22s):

Why are you giving them any ideas? Here's an idea that I would like to give to employers, right? Other than stupid ass Ladders. So Dan Price, you might remember him. He's the CEO of Gravity Payments. He cut his own salary so that all of his employees could receive a living wage. And here's a quote from Dan "Six years ago today, I raised my company's minimum wage to $70,000. Fox news called me a socialist whose employees would be on the bread lines, but since then our revenue tripled, we are a Harvard business school case study. And our employees have a 10X boom in homes bought, always invest in your people."


Chad (18m 9s):

I think this is where we need to go toward, yes, CEO's making $14 million a year. They're not going to give that up, but we have to understand that we have to give more, because we've been taking for far too long. We need to invest in our people.


Joel (18m 24s):

They'll give it up if uncle Sam's, if Uncle Sam tells him to give it up.


Chad (18m 28s):

Dude, well. Yeah. And right now it's more corporate welfare than it is anything else.


Joel (18m 33s):

Anyway, speaking of upscaling, we have another unicorn alert. Degreed has raised 153 million in series defunding, the investment, which was co-led by Sapphire Ventures and Riverwood Capital values of the company at $1.4 billion.


Chad (18m 51s):

Hello.


Joel (18m 52s):

Dan Levin, the former CEO of Box will succeed Chris McCarthy who's apparently having some back issues as the CEO. The funding will be used to accelerate product development, enhanced data infrastructure, fuel global expansion, and pursue strategic acquisitions. A quote from managing partner at Riverwood, Jeff Parks, investing in skills, culture and career growth has become a critical differentiator for employers. In quote, since its founding in 2012, degreed has raised a total of $360 million. That's a lot of cabbage Chad, that's a lot of degrees going on.


Chad (19m 31s):

It's a lot. It's a lot of cabbage. And I don't, I don't believe that McCarthy leaving as CEO is going to slow this train down. They've seen huge increases all over the board.


Joel (19m 43s):

He's still on. He's still around. He's just got, he literally says he has back issues. So the dude is just, he's getting a massage, right now.


Chad (19m 50s):

Severe, back issues. So there's just probably going to be a little bit more than that.


Joel (19m 54s):

I'm so insensitive.


Chad (19m 55s):

Yeah, dude, this is employees kind of like signal at this point. This is a platform you should get on now, because if you want to keep your employees, you need to demonstrate that you care about their career at your organization before they leave for another one. Great example in the military, if you're promoted, you have mandatory courses you have to take and pass to keep your promotion. Plus if you want to switch jobs or add new skills into your portfolio, you can choose those courses right in the militaries education ecosystem. Employers could retain great talent, mentor those who need help, and create a real culture through a learning ecosystem by leveraging this type of tech.


Chad (20m 41s):

Vendors, if you're a big platform like SAP, Oracle, or even Microsoft blending this type of degreed platform into LinkedIn, that would be fucking brilliant.


Joel (20m 53s):

I'm not a doctor, but I want to start by saying, maybe if former CEO, Chris McCarthy laid down on a bed of cash, it might make his back feel better. I don't know. Retention is huge. Obviously we talked a lot about people not applying for jobs and that's likely going to continue to happen. So I think this is a huge thing for retention, which you touched upon. I also think, call me cynic cynical. It's also sort of, it allows employers to have their cake and eat it too. And what I mean by that is this. Historically, if companies wanted to reeducate or, you know, upskill one of their employees, what did they usually do?


Joel (21m 34s):

They send them back to school. In some cases, this was, Hey, we'll pay for your MBA. We'll pay for your college degree. We'll pay for whatever. And sometimes this meant, you know, they got to go to Kellogg at Northwestern or a really good MBA program and the company paid for that. Well, that's great. And the employee got to have, you know, the certificate, the degree from that certain certain university and that made them way more marketable. And instead of a retention tool, sometimes this became a loss for the company as the employee was able to give another job, thank you, former company for paying for my MBA, that was really nice of you. So with something like Degreed companies are able to upskill, they're able to have retention, increase retention, they're able to make employees feel special and like they're on a track for growth, but they can do it in a way that says, okay, they're not going to get an MBA from fill in the blank of whatever college so that they leave me after they get that degree.


Joel (22m 31s):

So call me cynical. But I think there is a benefit to companies to be able to have both best of both worlds. They keep their people and they keep them happy and keep them upscaled. So for me like Degreed is if we were playing by herself, it would be a huge buy. And I think with the fact that Coursera just when IPO, I think Degreed obviously is probably going to IPO this year, I would imagine as things get hot, but yeah, big fan of this for a lot of different reasons, not just because you're retraining and upskilling candidates or employees, but employers can also get the best of both worlds. Yeah. Well, call me cynical.


Chad (23m 11s):

Any company who sends somebody for an MBA and doesn't sign them onto a contract for two to three years are fucking idiots. But I also see Google certs, all these little things that are popping up. These are different ways for companies to start to easily instead of taking years, obviously to get certifications or to get that degree, these are skills, right? They're not degrees, they're skills that you can get and in a relatively quick fashion.


Joel (23m 44s):

Yeah, let's be honest. A lot of a lot, your workers don't want to go to a two year MBA program where they have to like go to night school or weekend school or whatever. So this is another great way to do that. And it probably save a ton of money. It's probably a little cheaper to do this than it is to get an MBA from Stanford.


Chad (23m 59s):

I'd like to also highlight, friend of the show, sponsor the show, Jobvite they have an Academy. I just got actually an email this week marketing to me that they have a recruitment marketing certification that is also accredited. So again, if you are one of these types of platforms, these are the things that you need to start integrating into your ecosystem because employers are going to need them. You're either acquiring them or you are developing them.


Joel (24m 30s):

I really just would want gift cards, to Chipolte, but that's just me.


Jobvite (24m 33s):

You know, Steve, it feels like we keep getting pushed to hire more and better candidates with no more budget. Right? I wish there was a way to get better results from what we're doing. Actually, I heard in episode of Chad and Cheese about this framework from Jobvite. Oh yeah. Evolve. It's a technology agnostic framework to help TA teams get better results from their recruiting efforts. And we don't even have to be a Jobvite by customer to use it. I bet we would get better results if we orchestrated all of our efforts. You mean like a centralized process and all of our channels working together? For sure, whether it's job boards, social, or even texting with candidates. Let's do that. jobvite.com/evolve. I'll send you the link. Cool. I'm going to finish watching this episode of Bridgerton.


Joel (25m 19s):

All right. Forget Bridgerton. Okay. Here's another shout out for you. A new show on TBS. You'll say it's the best name of any show of all time is called Chad. So if you're a fan of like quirky comedy of sorta like the Napoleon Dynamite kind of funny stuff, this is a show for you. It's about an awkward teenager named Chad obviously. And it's played by a woman, who's a boy. So right there, it's a little bit unnerving when you watch it. She was a former SNL cast member and it's just, just really weird and funny. There's one scene where his best friend let's call him a 14 year old is wearing leather shorts.


Joel (26m 2s):

He goes, Why are you wearing leather shorts? He goes, they're comfortable. Like where'd you get leather shorts? And he says, they're my mom's. He's like, don't worry your mom's clothes. It's it's just, yeah. It's funny if you like that quirky shit. Check out Chad.


Chad (26m 15s):

Awkward.


Joel (26m 16s):

Cause you can't get enough Chad in your life.


Chad (26m 18s):

Awkward. You know, I have a pair of leather shorts?


Joel (26m 21s):

Yeah. I don't want to know. I don't want to just don't wear them into the office. They have the flexible waistband so I can grow into them accordingly.


Chad (26m 34s):

Well, they're probably not leather. They're probably pleather.


Joel (26m 39s):

Anyway, Salesforce is in the news, maybe doing a 180. Let's read about this and decide for ourselves. Salesforce says it's allowing only employees who have been vaccinated to return to the office for now making it one of the first big US companies to extend the preferential treatment to workers who are vaccinated. This is per Reuters. The company said employees could quote, volunteer to be part of our a hundred or fewer workers to return to each of its offices, but would have to test for COVID twice a week. Back in February, as listeners will remember Salesforce also said, some employees can work remotely at least through this year while others would be office-based or able to work onsite a few days a week.


Joel (27m 23s):

COVID-19 testing that would be mandated twice a week as I said, in a phase reopening state stage offices will gradually reopen from 20% to 75% capacity. The hybrid model, which they touted pretty aggressively earlier this year will extend for employees to work from home through at least December. Does that mean 2022 everyone's back to work suckers? I think it does.


Chad (27m 50s):

Possibly.


Joel (27m 51s):

What do you think Chad?


Chad (27m 53s):

Yeah, I, I think we've seen, was it Google and Amazon, there was some big brands that actually said, Hey, look, we're, we're coming back to the office. Right. And we talked about that. There's a control factor to that. I think, you know, some companies will be hybrid. I think when they're talking about allowing a hundred percent, that is, that could be by choice, right? That I don't think this means you have to come back. I just think that you have a choice. You can get the fuck out of your house and you can actually come back into the office. I think this is a smart way to go at it. I know that there are many individuals who have a problem with this whole, you know, it's my choice, whether I want a vaccination or not.


Chad (28m 38s):

And I appreciate that it, an individual is free to make that decision of taking or not taking the vaccine, but you've got to remember it's your employer's choice because they have to mitigate risk by restricting unvaccinated employees. So, you know, there is this kind of like push and pull, but there are two parties here. This isn't just the individual who's getting the shot in their arm. This is also the employer who has to manage and mitigate risk. And in this case, they're doing it through restriction of access. You know, you get to keep your job just not in the office. And it'll be interesting to see if countries start to do this around, you know, allowing people who are not vaccinated on planes.


Chad (29m 23s):

And into their country.


Joel (29m 25s):

Yeah, that is. So to me, there's two, two sort of sides to this. One is that, you know, I think as good, as nice as it sounds for big name tech companies to say, we're going to work from home and we're going to be flexible and hybrid. I think the reality of the numbers and the investments that they've made in office space makes it really hard to go to hybrid or work from home all the time. And I think that's why you're seeing a lot of these companies do an about face on the headquarters and coming to the office. And I think this is only going to continue. I mean, Salesforce was a beacon of, Oh my God, work from home? Salesforce, big company is, has already announced their hybrid, you can choose which one you want. Now.


Joel (30m 5s):

It feels more like they're saying, okay, we're going to gradually all come back to the office. I think smaller companies are going to embrace work from home. And we talked about some of that in previous episodes, which people can go back and listen to the archives. The second phase of this, I think is the vaccination passport and what, how there's so much division on this. And it kind of shocks me that there is, but where do you fall in terms of, you know, a restaurant will accept you if you have the vaccine and if you don't, they won't, or maybe it's like, when you and I were growing up in the seventies where half the restaurant was smoking and the other half was not smoking.


Joel (30m 46s):

Of course it was stupid because we were all smoking in those restaurants at the time. But I'm just, I'm just curious. Why do you think there's such pushback? Is it just dumb Americans? And would you accept a passport and only being able to go places, games, concerts, et cetera if you had said passport.


Chad (31m 4s):

You got to remember that these are private organizations making the decision, right? So that's, there, if you're a restaurant, that's your decision. Now you will probably lose money from people who obviously won't come back, but that is your decision. So I think overall, this is about mitigating risk in a disease. Okay. That's the truth here. We're talking about mitigating risk. We're talking about lives. We're talking about, you know, approaching 600,000 dead people in the United States. So, you know, again, I think if you decide not to take the vaccine, there are consequences, right?


Chad (31m 46s):

That's all there is to it. And if you take the vaccine, there are consequences. They're different. They're on there, they're on different sides. So overall, those are the risks that you have to take. We see the Johnson and Johnson get a pause because you know, one in every million individuals who were vaccinated had blood clot issues, females did, that was one in a million. Right. But we're still taking a pause to check that out. There was a consequence there. On the other side, if you're not going to take the vaccine, there's also a consequence and you have to understand that. Yeah.


Joel (32m 22s):

You have to have a license to drive a car in this country. I don't know if you knew that or not, but yeah, I say, bring on the passport baby. I'll get my shot tomorrow. Now, apparently when I'm going to be bedridden for 24 hours, I don't know how you've how you handled your second shot, but anyway, I'm ready for the passport. I'm ready to go to restaurants. I'm ready go to concerts. I'm ready to go to games. I'm ready to travel the world again. I say, bring it on and make it voluntary. Like if you don't want it then fine. But if the airline doesn't want to accept you because you don't have the passport, you don't get a ticket.


Chad (32m 50s):

Yeah.


Joel (32m 51s):