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Google Launches Jobs App

Launches, layoffs, and Joblists. This week's episode has it all. Throw in Google launching job search app, at-work porn, and you've basically got Christmas in August. You're welcome.

Oh, almost forgot Hiretual got money and Mya's reorganizing.

Enjoy another solid effort by the boys, as always, powered by Sovren, JobAdx, and Jobvite.


Intro (2s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HRS most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (34s):

Unemployment claims rocket 1 million in the US again, so who else is ready for the weekend? What's up boys and girls?! Welcome to HR's most dangerous podcast, AKA the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host Joel "checkered flag" Cheesman.

Chad (40s):

And this is Chad "I'm not throwing away my shot" Sowash.

Joel (44s):

And on this week show Google, launches Kormo who? Hiretual makes it rain and your workplace might be driving workers to porn strokes. And we're not talking about the good kind of strokes and lawsuits.

Chad (-):


Joel (58s):

Get your sticky fingers off that sticky keyboard. We'll be right back after paying off our whiskey habit.

JobAdX (1m 6s):

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JobAdX (2m 18s):

Instead of hoping that job seekers will stumble upon your employment branding video JobAdX seamlessly displays it in the job description while they're searching, building a connection and reducing candidate drop-off. You're spending thousands of dollars on beautiful, informative employment branding videos that just sit on a YouTube channel begging to be discovered why not feature them across our network of over 150 job sites to proactively compel top talent to join your team, help candidates see themselves in your role by emailing. That's Attract, engage, employ with JobAdX.

Bell (-):

Ding, Ding, Ding

Joel (2m 34s):

What's up Chad?

Chad (2m 37s):

Oh, it's been one of those weeks, been gorgeous! I got a chance to mow the lawn. I can't wait to, after we're done with this, I'm going to go mow the rest of it, but you are mowing less lawn.

Joel (2m 49s):

You just know how to have fun on a Thursday, mowing the yard. That and then straight to my hammock. Now you have an electric mower. Is there like a big battery that you've plugged into that thing? Do you plug the whole into the wall? How does that work?

Chad (3m 1s):

No, it's battery, you swap the battery out. So it comes with two batteries and it is, I would never go back to gas again. It's just, there's no reason. It is a much lighter mower, you don't need like a self-propelled because it's so much lighter. It's quiet and you don't have to worry about all of the maintenance. I mean, I like messing around with little Briggs and Stratton engines and whatnot, but I don't have time. I don't have time to fuck with that shit anymore. So, I mean, it's just easy to pop in a battery.

Chad (3m 33s):

You go do your thing and then you pop it into the charger and good to go. All right. So yeah, we, we put in a concrete patio extension in our backyard. We have a deck, but we wanted, we wanted more space to, you know, cook shit. And there's a tree where we can sit under the shade and put a little a fire pit, addition in there somewhere. And which is perfect timing because as many know the Indy 500 in our areas is happening. It'll be very surreal because there will be no one in the stands.

Joel (4m 4s):

Yes, but the actual race is happening. So in our parts of the world, it's a nice time to pull out the, the big screen outside, get the PBR in the cooler, get some grill marks on some burgers and have a good time, so I'm looking forward to this weekend.

Chad (4m 7s):

Amen. The 500 usually happens in May, but obviously COVID fucked that all up. They thought they were going to be able to get people in the stands and a social distancing type of a way. And they were smart. They were really smart to pull back on that. So it's not, it's going to be great because we'll be able to obviously watch it on TV.

Joel (4m 38s):

We're lovingly calling it the empty Annapolis 500 this year. But yes, it is normally blacked out here locally, so we can actually watch it this year, which is cool.

Chad (4m 40s):

Excellent. Excellent. So shout outs, as we're talking about sports, let's stick with the sports theme. The Washington football team, that's what they're currently called.

Joel (4m 38s):


Chad (4m 48s):

They hired Jason Wright to become the first black president in NFL history.

Clapping (-):


Chad (4m 48s):

Wright won't be involved in the football side of the business, like his predecessor was rather, he's going to focus only on the business side, including operations, finance, sales, and marketing and Coach Ron Rivera obviously is going to do the rest of it. He's going to report directly to Mr.

Chad (5m 31s):

Dan Schneider. Wright was a, was a running back at Northwestern. He played for the Forty-Niners, the Falcons, the Brownies and Cards before going to get his MBA and, and taking some time over at McKinsey. So that's a, that's a big win for NFL football. And it's about damn time.

Joel (5m 52s):

Yeah. Big, big win. And so brave for an industry that's like 80 plus black actually have an executive in the C suite. So brave, so brave Washington way to go! Shout out to our buddy Tim Hawk. I don't know if he's been on the show, maybe a surprise guest appearance somewhere, at a conference, but he is now at NAS the ad agency that was, I believed, acquired fairly recently. So they're actually hiring people. What the hell is going on with that? Tim, my only advice to you stay as far away from Matt Adam as possible.

Chad (6m 27s):

Matt will help you with your naps though. So that might be, if you want to increase your nap game or get better at your nap game, Matt can help you with that. A big shout out to Nia Smith, who was the new CEO of Task Rabbit. She is formally from Uber Eats, Airbnb and now, you know, obviously Task Rabbit gets that shoot. She was Head of Operations for host services at Airbnb, and then director with the position she just left and Head of Courier Operations over at Uber.

Chad (7m 5s):

None of those positions are easy people.

Joel (7m 10s):

And she is replacing a black woman who we talked about, who got the job in 2013, Stacy Brown-Philpot. So we were wondering who would replace her and it's another woman, so shout out to Task Rabbit. I've actually, I've actually used Task Rabbit recently for the first time I mentioned my grill, we got a new one and I looked at the direction. Fuck no. I said, if they can put together an Ikea account, they can put together a grill. So I called up Zach, message Zach. And he came over in an hour, about an hour and a half put together my grill.

Joel (7m 44s):

So I'm a believer in Task Rabbit. If you haven't used it, check it out.

Chad (7m 47s):

Oh, that's awesome. Fucking awesome. A big, big shout out to Jerome Ternynck and Smart Recruiters. They've just

Joel (8m 2s):

Manifesto of sorts.

Chad (8m 3s):

Is it a Manifesto? Yeah. So Smart Recruiters recognizes the existence of white privilege and the impact of systemic racism against black indigenous and people of color. So therefore they've published their plan to become an anti-racist force in the recruiting market. So big kudos to Jerome and team for laying that out. Now here's the big thing we're going to do exactly what you want us and need us to do Jerome. We're going to hold your feet to the fire.

Chad (8m 33s):

And the very first thing is a, it was interesting because last week somebody passed over a staff photo and they've got a pretty large staff and it is pretty Caucasian. So I think job one Jerome is let's go ahead and get some balance in that staff first and foremost, let's do that.

Joel (8m 54s):

Amen to that. And speaking of balance, I have to make a huge apology. Abby Cheeseman, no relation whatsoever. Maybe down the line her husband and I are are, are related somewhere, but we forgot her birthday. So dag dagnabbit, Abby, we're sorry. Happy Virthday to you. Keep trucking there in Chicago where you are. And I hope you had a few pieces of cake and a few shots of whiskey.

Chad (9m 22s):

I will own some of that because obviously I missed it as well, but I think you should own more because you share the same last name. So

Joel (9m 32s):

no question.

Chad (9m 33s):

My last shout out goes to Patrick Shehan the CEO of Circa. He was just on the podcast earlier this week, much like we just were talking about Jerome. We pressed him hard on being transparent with staff stats and hiring on the diversity side of the house. If you're going to do this, and this is a big focus, let's say for companies in the diversity space. If you are not actually being transparent with your staff composition and diversity numbers, then why the fuck should anybody use you?

Chad (10m 10s):

And Patrick said, yes, we will accept that challenge. So we'll definitely keep his feet to the fire much like the rest of the industry that say that we are balanced and we're non-biased and blah, blah, blah. We, I get that. I appreciate that. Now. Fucking show me, let's do this.

Joel (10m 31s):

And speaking of feet to the fire, a quick shout out to Steve Bannon, a former Trump advisor who was arrested today for some scam that he perpetrated apparently to make some money off of poor souls that wanted to build a wall in Mexico. Steve, I hope you enjoy your cell and it's warm and cozy. Last shout out for me real quick, our buddies at Camino announced a big partnership this weekend with the American Advertising Federation, we're talking almost 50,000 strong advertising professionals that can be on the Camino platform.

Joel (11m 7s):

Ryan Gill, Cindy Songne, and team. Congratulations. Good on you.

Chad (11m 12s):

Mike Germano. I mean, we should get those guys on the podcast because I know their whole space is just blowing up with another million plus this week added to the unemployment rolls. These are the types of platforms that we really need to highlight and focus on because I believe they are the platforms of the future.

Joel (11m 36s):

So this, this just came across my message, message wire. Shout out to my sister who is now engaged.

Chad (11m 45s):

Oh, nice. Yeah where's the applause!

Joel (11m 49s):

My sister does not listen to the show, but Holy shit, I just got a picture of a big ring that came across my IM images. So in addition to that, shout out to my wife who's celebrating another trip around the sun, on Monday. Wow. What a way? That way, the way to close shout outs for me.

Chad (12m 9s):

Very nice. Very nice. Okay. We're going to jump into events real quick. So August 27th people at 2:00 PM Eastern, it's a Recruitment Hackers event put on by Talk Push our friends over at Talk ush. I'm going to be a part of it's around Optimizing Recruitment for the Remote Workforce. I'm going to have my buddy, Jen Terry-Tharp's going to be there. And yeah, it should be, it should be a blast. So if you want to check it out, you want to register, go to to register, not 'com,,, it's, check it out.

Joel (12m 50s):

Nice and events for me Wednesday of this week stood in the Jobvite Summer to Evolve Series. I was on a with Jeff Rohrs, their CMO.

Chad (13m 1s):

How'd that go?

Joel (13m 2s):

Joe Pulizzi. It was, it was three Clevelanders talking about the Brown's season mostly and whether or not there would be seasoned, but, but we also found time to talk about content marketing, how to sort of marry marketing with TA. It was a nice extension of the stuff that we've talked about at the Cult gathering and our Cult Brand series. So yeah, if, if you miss that, go to I don't know if it's online yet, but it certainly should be soon if it's not, they can just check out yours until mine goes off.

Chad (13m 35s):

Yeah. Mine's up there. Joel's is up there. Did you talk about podcasts at all? That's content.

Joel (13m 44s):

It was on our list. We didn't even get to it. We spent so much time on like

Chad (13m 49s):

Should be number one!

Joel (13m 51s):

I know, I know it's, you know, there's this thing called just texts that people are still into. And we talked about that for 30-45 mins.

Chad (13m 58s):

Yeah, I get it. I get it. Excellent! Topics.

Joel (14m 3s):

Google in the news.

Chad (-):


Joel (14m 6s):

I didn't even know this is going on. So we know Google for Jobs. We know the search API, we know Hire was shut down last year, but there's, they're still doing it. So they announced this week, Google launches an app called Kormo, that's KORMO in India. So they're expanding their recruitment app called Kormo Jobs in the second largest country in the world. This was previously available in Bangladesh and Indonesia. Korma Jobs helps users find and apply for entry level roles. Google previously offered a regional job search feature known as job spot within Google Pay. But that is now being wined down in favor of Kormo. So the question, should we be anticipating Kormo in a local market near you with a Google jobs application that that is going to put the fear in Indeed for sure.

Chad (14m 59s):

Yeah. It's interesting. I don't know that India will have the same antitrust issues that the US or Europe will.

Joel (15m 8s):


Chad (15m 8s):

So they originally had a jobs function in Google pay in India and India is, is very mobile country, as I'm sure most listeners know. And they're trying to help those individuals pay with more than just cash. So that's where Google Pay was big. And then they, they had jobs in it as well. Apparently the jobs function was going so well. They broke it out into Kormo and then a couple of companies, one names, Amato, and Denzo who are online delivery services for groceries and medicines and so on and so forth.

Chad (15m 45s):

They posted more than 2 million verified jobs on the platform, like right out of the gate. So, you know, I think this is going to be a good play for Google in markets that aren't as regulated, let's say as the United States, it looks like a pretty cool app. You can discover like it, it recommends jobs, you can apply for jobs, at least some of the, the easier applications through the app. But I don't, I just personally, I don't see that coming here.

Joel (16m 15s):

Probably agree with that. I think the Google for Jobs is going to continue to be their, their platform here in the States and probably much of the, of the world. I think that it, it definitely showcases the fact that Google gives a shit about this stuff.

Chad (16m 28s):

They do.

Joel (16m 29s):

And I think in anything, anything more important is sort of, you know, just conversation. We continue to talk about Facebook, Google still sort of tinkering in this space and trying to get it right. You just can't deny the kind of numbers and strength and resources that those companies have. So you gotta keep your eye on this. So yeah, I think it's just, it just showcases that Google gives a shit and we got to keep watching what they're doing.

Chad (16m 52s):

I think this is another shot. And in the article actually referred to it at LinkedIn. We talked about last week with Google Cards and Google Cards

Joel (-):

and that was India too.

Chad (17m 3s):

and perspectively becoming a LinkedIn factor in India. Now applying this whole jobs, this Kormo jobs piece. And this is, I mean, it's an interesting dichotomy of how they're coming at the same problem instead of LinkedIn being a social or a social professional network with jobs in it, Google's coming at the social network more as a search functionality. Hey, you want to be found, you want people to be able to find you use the largest search engine in the world to be able to do so Google, yada, yada, and then over here, you're used to using this whole pay app.

Chad (17m 42s):

Well guess what? You'd love the jobs piece. We can do more with this new, this new jobs app. It'll be interesting to see where it goes next, Bangladesh, India. What countries will allow this to happen is really, I think that the biggest question.

Joel (17m 56s):

Yeah. And could it evolve into a payment structure. Where you go to work on the app, you get paid on the app, your card is updated through all that stuff. So yeah.

Chad (-):

That's a good point.

Joel (18m 7s):

Yeah. So do all these streams start to cross and then cats and dogs living together in India, I guess why I have to find out, but it certainly is interesting, for sure.

Chad (18m 16s):

Well, the delivery structure like in India is amazing. I've actually read stories about how their lunches are delivered every day. How medicines, how groceries, I mean, how everything is delivered through some of these different apps and then being able to ensure that that individual is paid after the delivery is confirmed. I like your idea where the whole pay could actually come through Google and once again, owning that entire process.

Joel (18m 45s):

Yeah. Yeah. Cause I mean, banking is different in other parts of the world and if Google could kind of own that whole system, that's okay. That's pretty smart.

Chad (18m 52s):

Yeah. I'm going to outflank Facebook that's for sure.

Joel (18m 56s):

Fuck you Facebook. Anyway. Hiretual in the news this year,

Chad (19m 0s):

Is it HireTual? I mean tool. Yeah. The way that it's spelled is just like it's I see where they're going here. It's higher. And then T U a L as in like virtual higher vir, hire-tual. I, I don't know. Yeah. Hiretual I don't know.

Joel (19m 20s):

Fuck. If it was to use, I think there wouldn't be hired school. It'd be like Juul like the cigarette. So anyway, they raised $13 million, 23 million total, according to a Tech Crunch article in comparison to their competition Seek Out has raised 8 million in Hiring Solved, raised 4 million. So these guys have almost raised twice with those two guys have done the race came in through a Chinese venture capital firm.

Joel (19m 50s):

I'll let you just make up your own mind on why that, what that means. You can check out that actually the VC site is funny. It has a picture of the great wall of China with an American, a bald eagle, like flying around the great wall. So they've, they've kind of covered their bases on that politically, but anyway, it looks like they're going to use some of the money to kind of pivot, hiring soft style into more of a tool with companies, ATSs and CRMs. As we know, the whole public profile businesses is pressured with commoditization as well as privacy issues, but good on them this should give them a lot of runway to, to grow this thing out.

Chad (20m 30s):

Last week, we talked about MOKA, M O K A and again, China getting into the HR space. Now that was more of an indigenous type of technology where this is I wouldn't say American technology, but I would say it's technology that, that emanates from this country. So yeah, we're seeing more Chinese influence, I guess you could say in the HR space.

Joel (20m 57s):

Yep. The B2B space. And also, additionally, the company Hiretual has 85 employees. I don't know how many Seek Out has, but I think Hiring Solved has 20 to 30 and they're looking to have a hundred employees total by the end of 2020. So we're going to see a lot of growth from those guys.

Chad (21m 14s):

Yeah. It's a rough space though. I mean, if you think about it, we've seen was acquired by items. A Jobvite just did a matching Aqui-hire. I mean, they bought the company, but really the company was a guy a, this way, Global they just did an integration with Salesforce, which is you have to say it's good movement, right. But nothing I think thus far compares to in we're a little biased, but Chad and Cheese sponsors Sovren, who is probably the most solid business model we've seen in this space been around forever.

Joel (-):

For sure.

Chad (21m 53s):

I mean, they're like, they're like the Intel inside. Do you? You don't know that Sovren is actually powering shit. But most of those sites that are out there, the parsing, the matching, the scoring, those types of things is, is actually Sovren. So it's interesting how all of these other brands are out there. They're really pressing their brand to the market kind of like B2B style or so is Sovren, but they're doing it more from vendor to vendor.

Joel (22m 18s):

Yeah. Sovren's too busy with their moneymaking printing press to worry about too much of this other stuff. And by the way, Hiretual is, is partnered with like everybody. I mean the most obscure ATS is so that smart, they're definitely hedging their bets on who's going to buy them by integrating with everybody they possibly can. Yeah.

Chad (22m 38s):

I believe the pivot in much like Shon said during the FeatuRama, they trained their AI on public data. And then they took all of that learning and started to point it to the database in the applicant tracking system. And I think that's one of the smartest things you can do, because if you go into a company and say, look, how much money did you actually spend on acquiring candidates over the last three years? Just let's do that calculation.

Chad (23m 8s):

Why are you allowing those people and that data to atrophy, you've probably spent tons of money to acquire the same person six to 10 times. Why don't you use tech, on the money that you've already spent?

Joel (23m 21s):

Yeah. Do you ever think about Uncommon and wonder what could have been?

Chad (23m 25s):

Oh God. Yes. I mean, if they weren't, if they weren't burning a million dollars a month, I mean it, and let's be, let's be real here. I mean, those guys were incredibly smart, but I think the arrogance many companies or many, many individuals come into this space, especially from marketing or some of the bigger space and, and they've had over a billion dollars in exits already. So it was like very cocky. They had money.

Chad (23m 55s):

We're just going to rip this shit up and you know, get acquired again. It's an entirely different space. And I think that is a great example of what you can't do. And obviously doing 10 pivots in an 18 month timeframe, doesn't help you.

Joel (24m 12s):

I quote Tom petty, who said the waiting is the hardest part. Joblist is in the news. Yeah. You've never heard of them before, but they are a job board, I guess, technically they were built out of the Wilbur Labs, a San Francisco based startup studio, which then invested a whopping $4 million in the company after making it soft launch. Last year, Joblist has been quietly gaining traction. According to the company already powering over 500,000 job applications.

Joel (24m 44s):

It's not your traditional job board where you search in a box, it's kind of fill out this profile and they'll magically match you with jobs already in their system. It's not quite clear to me where those jobs are coming from, but I'm hard pressed to say, they're probably not selling job postings to fill their database.

Chad (25m 2s):

There's a million different ways they can get jobs. What I find interesting is the article actually says 58% of people described the job search process as a lonely and/or isolated. Joblist addresses these problems in two ways first, by offering a more customized search experience, that is a short quiz, like, and then second by introducing collaboration to the job search process.

Chad (25m 33s):

So what little Johnny can do as little Johnny can go in, can take the test and then get like a list served up. Then they can do like the little favorites thing. Then you can share all of this. It's like crowdsource job search. So you can share it with mom because mom wants little Johnny out of the basement and share it with dad and your cousins and say, Hey, let's all together help little Johnny get a job.

Joel (25m 59s):

Is the word gamification anywhere in the, the release? 'Cause it needs to be.

Chad (26m 5s):

Yeah, I was going to say, I don't see it. I see a, I see quizzes and things like that, but gamification would be good and probably virtual reality. That'd be cool.

Joel (26m 16s):

Yes. QR codes at Joblist, everybody let's get excited. Let's get excited in the, the rumor mill this week. Some confirmed some not, we have some movement at Maya and Hiring Solved. What do we know there?

Chad (26m 31s):

Yeah. So let's, let's get into the hard game of obviously what, what Hiring Solved is doing it's not easy. Obviously we've seen matching organizations like the Entelos like the Umcommons, you can have plenty of money, but your strategy and your focused means everything. And I think from hiring soft standpoint, they have made a couple of pivots. I'm still, I'm still pretty bullish on them.

Chad (27m 1s):

They've had to, they've had to cut some heads. It was it. What was the percentage? I can't remember.

Joel (27m 6s):

So as of, as of today, this is Thursday when we record, we know for sure there have been layoffs. We believe them to be significant. Our friend of the show, Jeremy Roberts has already posted on social media that he has let go and that he's looking for other opportunities. Certainly if you're looking for someone with Jeremy's abilities, which are many, give him a shout if you have an opening, but my guess is how these things go. And you and I have seen these a lot of times throughout the years, is that shit's going to start leaking and then it's going to start pouring out.

Joel (27m 43s):

We've reached out to the company for comments. So at this point, I would say, we've definitely got some movement at Hiring Solved. We're getting confirmation and hopefully a statement from the company. And we'll, we'll most likely get some leakage about information, what's going on. So if you know anything, give us a shout at Otherwise I'd say, stay tuned for a shred maybe early in the week or tomorrow in regards to what exactly is going on at Hiring Solved. Maya is interesting.

Joel (28m 14s):

Some movement there. We actually had the CEO reach out to us, which was a total class act. Yes, by the way, and tell us about some people that we had communicated with and been connected to in marketing for sure had been, let go, a new person was taking over. So very likely there's been some reorganization at Maya as well, these layoffs and, and sort of actions around COVID and less hiring going on, kind of filtered up top with your ZipRecruiter's, your bigger organizations, your LinkedIns.

Joel (28m 47s):

And now it looks like those layoffs are funneling down to these smaller, more nimbler tech organizations, which maybe hope they could wait it out, but apparently cannot. And they need to make some hard decisions as well.

Chad (28m 59s):

Yeah, it seems like Eyal and team are, I don't want to say pivoting, but they're going to provide a lot more focus in pressure on the revenue generation side of the house. As a couple of the individuals that they've brought in are pretty high level, but they are really just focused on customer success, sales strategy, revenues, those types of things. And that's what you need, especially in these times to keep fueling things, right.

Chad (29m 29s):

You either get more funding, but being able to actually fuel your own growth. That's even bigger.

Joel (29m 35s):

So stay tuned on those and talking about fueling growth. Let's take a break hear from Jobvite. And we'll talk about creepy tech. Yikes.

Jobvite (29m 45s):

This summer, Jobvite wants you, you and you! To join hundreds, thousands, millions! Okay? Maybe just thousands of recruiters, HR, and talent acquisition professionals for a summer you won't soon forget! It's Jobvite's Summer To Evolve. The Summer To Evolve is a 12 week series of free content to help recruiters brush up on their skills. Learn from industry thought leaders. And see how technology can help them improve, automate, and evolve their recruiting efforts. There will be a chance to share tips and ideas with your peers. And we may even have some surprises for you along the way. I love surprises. So visit the to register for the summer toolbox sessions that suit your needs, peak your interest or float your boat. If you're just starting June 16th, it's the summer to evolve the way you attract, engage, hire, onboard, and retain talent. Jobvite recruit with purpose, hire with confidence.

Joel (30m 39s):

Alright, so we got implants that track employees, we've got all kinds of things that creep the fuck out of us. And this week we had some more tech that creeps the hell out of it.

Chad (30m 59s):

This is the fucking Purdue here in Indiana, fucking Purdue. A pair of computer scientists from Purdue University are leading a controversial new four year study using AI enabled surveillance to track recently released prison parolees, citing US Department of Justice data indicating more than 80% of parolees are likely to be arrested again within nine years of their initial release.

Chad (31m 30s):

The pair say, the pair of Purdue dudes say the goal of this research is to better understand what the factors lead to per person re offending. What the F? I mean, really? We know this already! But yet they want to put ankle bracelets and phones in their pocket that track them.

Joel (31m 54s):

I believe it's wrist bracelets. Let's get it. Right.

Chad (31m 56s):

Okay, my bad.

Joel (31m 57s):

So, so yeah, they, this, this is pretty creepy. You have to wear a bracelet, I guess they can require this cause your, your rights pretty much go to hell if you've ever been arrested. Not that I can speak to this, by the way, if you haven't watched the Netflix documentary 13, is that what it's called?

Chad (-):

Do it.

Joel (32m 14s):

Yeah. It's it's great. Yeah, I watch it. So, so yeah, so you wear this bracelet, they know your phone. So they're going to track your heart rate, how stressed you are locations, and even like pictures that you're taking on your phone to create like trends on, Oh, you're trending toward criminal behavior or, okay you're being a good boy or girl we'll, we'll let you go about your business. This is some really creepy ass shit. I don't know why anyone would do this of their own free will, but I also don't know if they can make you do it just because you're a former felon.

Joel (32m 48s):

I guess they could do it as part of sort of the ankle bracelet, home arrest kind of thing, where yeah, yeah. Parolees. Yeah Parolees, right, Like, okay, instead of the meeting with parolee, you're going to wear this tech and we're going to track you that way. But yeah, it's creepy shit and rolls right into sort of our other creepy story was the facial recognition in terms of being able to better, I guess, trace facial recognition, although it's, it's being rebranded as facial analysis.

Joel (33m 23s):

Cause facial recognition is too scary for people, but it historically has been bad with people of color, surprise, surprise, it's getting better. And now they're going to be better able to market to people of color, better able to, to track you within stores. And of course this bleeds over into biased recruiting and being able to facial recognize candidates better. And of course bring bias into the recruiting process. I'm sure you have an opinion on this technology.

Chad (33m 52s):

Yeah. This is what they call racial recognition, not facial recognition.

Joel (33m 57s):


Chad (33m 58s):

This is not where we should be going with technology. And I know they're trying to couch this in saying that, you know, we are using AI to scan photos, to be able to see a skin tone and what color lipstick they're wearing so that we know if we were seeing this same shade of lipstick on darker skinned women, then we'll go ahead and we know to do it. And from my standpoint, that's all bullshit because you know, what's flying off the shelf.

Chad (34m 32s):

Okay. You know, what's going off the shelf. You know what inventory is being sold and what's not being sold. So most of what we're hearing is total bullshit. Now, back to real quick, back to the whole ankle bracelet or risk bracelet.

Joel (34m 46s):


Chad (34m 47s):

You know, this, the university of Washington, AI researcher actually suggested that the underlying premise of the new study that these people are doing at Purdue seems to ignore decades of work investigating recidivism. I'm saying that social and economic reasons behind recidivism are well understood. And it is unclear exactly why and what the hell, this new realization would gather by any kind of surveillance.

Chad (35m 18s):

So tying these two together, I think it is total and utter bullshit that they're saying that, well, this is going to help companies with marketing. This is going to help us with recidivism. Who was actually funding this research because this is playing into the CCA, the Corrections Corporation of America's hands. Yeah. It just, it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Joel (35m 47s):

Yeah. And I think I'm reminded you, you hammer a lot about transparency in algorithms and AI and the sort of prescreening tools that we have, and being really transparent on what that algorithm is. And when we look at, you know, racial recognition and other recognition technologies where we can determine gender, age, race, even attractiveness, according to the story, you know, how does that play into the algorithm and does it, and are we teaching the algorithm based on some of those biases?

Joel (36m 22s):

I think it's a really dangerous trend.

Chad (36m 24s):

Yeah. And why should it? I mean, none of it makes any sense. Again, we know that recidivism happens because of economic pressures. If, if I get out of work and in every application, I have to check a box that says that I've, I was a convicted felon then guess what? I'm probably not going to get the job, but if I don't get the job that I can't pay my bills, and if I can't pay my bills, how the fuck can I feed my family? Or any of that? I mean, I'm going to go back to what I did before.

Chad (36m 56s):

I'm going to have to find a way to get money, so that me and my family can survive. So being able to say that I have a phone in my pocket and that's going to help me, or I have an ankle or risk bracelet hat's all total bullshit. We know the reasons behind that.

Joel (37m 14s):

Alright, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to an ad and let you breathe a little bit. And when we come back, we're going to have a nice, fun, funny story for us to close out the week. Okay. We'll be right back. Okay.

Sovren (37m 25s):

Sovren Parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry, the more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting, that's S O V R E We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren ~ Software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.

Joel (37m 52s):

All right stroke should never be funny, but this is as close as a funny stroke can possibly get. All right. So this is out of Australia where all crazy shit happens. There's an uber Christian organization called the Family Voice of Australia, and they had an employee whose last name was Bowker, which is kind of funny in and of itself, depending on, you know,

Chad (38m 13s):

I was suspect of this whole story because of that last name.

Joel (38m 17s):

Bowker I hardly even know her. Anyway, the company was ordered to pay Bowker two years of weekly compensation payments due to the impact of worker anxiety on his stroke. But tell him Chad, why he had a stroke on the job.

Chad (38m 36s):

Cause he was jerking off to porn. I mean, the dude, the dude was so, so stressed. And here's the thing is that, you know, he said that, you know, he uses porn to distress. So therefore, so therefore I don't understand how porn is the reason why he had a damaging stroke. I think it was more back to the demoralizing atmosphere and they just thought they would pull porn into the story to be able to discredit him.

Chad (39m 9s):

Right? You know, Hey, you're watching porn, you're working for a Christian organization. This to me, the whole Bowker this sounds like a story we're going to hear in a couple of maybe years and it's going to be Mike Pence.

Joel (39m 24s):

I mean the homeboy was only 47 years old. How intense do you have to be doing this to give yourself a stroke? My man, come on, bro. I don't get it. This is, this is, this is the best sitcom ever. Like super Christian organization pays an employee who's beating off on the job and then has a stroke and blaze blames the company because of stress on the job for doing it like this, just this boggles my mind. And it's so hilarious and weird.

Joel (39m 55s):

And we're sorry that Bowker suffered a stroke. We hope that he, he recovers from that.

Chad (39m 60s):


Joel (39m 60s):

And can live to jerk again.

Chad (40m 3s):

And his guilt for doing something that is natural. Let's just say that it is totally misplaced. So yes, he deserved the money Bowker.

Joel (40m 3s):

Bowker, Chad, we out.

Chad (40m 3s):

We out.

Outro (40m 13s):

This has been the Chad and Cheese podcast, subscribe on iTunes, Google play or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss a single show and be sure to check out our sponsors because they make it all possible for more visit Oh yeah. You're welcome.


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