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iCIMS' New Sugar Mama

Quiet quitting, boomeranging and petitioning ... Oh my!

This episode has it all. In addition to covering some of the hottest trends in work this week, the boys cover big news out of iCIMS and play some Buy-or-Sell with Sabanto, Growthspace, and Modern Loop (again). Plus, Lowe's latest news is a down-low, dirty shame, and Indeed gets into bed with TikTok. Your ears are already thanking you, aren't they?


INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast

Joel (23s):

Oh yeah. It's the podcast that will always forgive your student loan debt and whatever it was you did last night. Hey kitties. You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your co-host Joel "ready for some football" Cheeseman.

Chad (38s):

And this is Chad "no college debt here" Sowash.

Joel (41s):

And on this week show iCIMS gets a bigger boat. What the fuck is quiet quitting? And Indeed brings its old crusty ass to TikTok. Okay. Boomer let's do this.

Chad (53s):

Okay. So that's partially a lie when I said no college debt here.

Joel (57s):

You married into some right.

Chad (59s):

I'd married into college debt. Yeah. Yeah. So I heard you caught a case of the Vonq last night.

Joel (1m 3s):

Oh, I got Vonq last night, man. Shit. There's there's no penicillin enough to, to cure this Vonq this morning. But yeah, we met up with the Vonq folks. I don't know for our listeners know, but the North American headquarters, I guess is here in Indianapolis, run by a few friends of ours and they had the Germans come in, Arno the CEO and

Chad (1m 27s):

Zee Germans

Joel (1m 28s):

Got overserved on scotch and old fashions last night. It was a good time. But dragging a bit on this show.

Chad (1m 35s):

I might need an antibiotic, but you drank at least what Adam Gordon calls antiseptic, last night. So you, I think you'll be fine with that shit you were pouring down your gullet.

Joel (1m 49s):

La flouge!

Chad (1m 49s):

And I think you're pronouncing it wrong.

Joel (1m 52s):

I mispronounced it.

Chad (1m 57s):

I think it's pronounced shit!

Joel (1m 57s):

You know, I get sick of these Brits that try to tell us how to say shit because they can't even pronounce their A's like, eh, you know, it's Blanton's, it's not Blantons.

Chad (2m 8s):

And they put U's and shit and yeah.

Joel (2m 10s):

It's Hey, come on, come on. I don't speak Queen's English. I speak American.

Chad (2m 17s):

So thanks to the VONQers that were out there. It was a good time.

Joel (2m 22s):

It's big applause for that.

Chad (2m 23s):

Great meal. Great drinks. It was a blast. It was a blast.

Joel (2m 26s):

What'd you go with? Do you go with a steak? What'd you go with?

Chad (2m 30s):

No, I went with the colossal shrimp.

Joel (2m 32s):

Ooh. Was it colossal? You we're on the other end of the table.

Chad (2m 36s):

It was pretty fucking colossal. Yeah, it was delicious. Let's just say that.

Joel (2m 39s):

Did you try the bisque?

Chad (2m 41s):

Yeah, no, it did. Did the lobster bisque and no question. They did it upright. They did it up right. Much like my first shout out Burger King, who's doing it right. That's right kids in a world with Taco Bell, Mexican pizzas. Jesus' chicken wings. And McDonald's shipping the Chicken Big Mac to America from the UK. Burger King steps up with the Impossible Chicken sandwich. That's right kids. America's fast food. Industrial complex is expanding their hippie menu.

Joel (3m 11s):

How do we fixed it? Cause you're tied to this way more than I am. I like a while, the impossible possible burger really had its a moment. And to me it feels like that that trend is fading. Am I wrong on that? Like what are you bullish or bearish on the whole protein based burgers and chicken sandwiches and whatnot.

Chad (3m 32s):

Yeah, no it's I mean it's expanding into pretty much everybody's menu now. So we're you see? I think the big surge was all because it had never happened before. We never had plant-based burgers anywhere now they're everywhere. So we're pretty much numb to it. Everybody has them and now they have this new chicken. I think KFC is actually doing a version of a plant-based chicken as well. So these companies impossible foods beyond meat, et cetera, et cetera, they are kicking ass and taking names.

Joel (4m 0s):

Good god. The Colonel is rolling in his grave right now. Protein plant-based chicken. Well from one progressive movement to another. My shout out goes to FN Meka. Who the fuck is FN Meka? the music label behind Nat King Cole and Frank Sinatra has signed a virtual rapper by the name of FN Mika, which I'm guessing is FN Meka. That's right. FN Meka is an AI generated rapper and already has 500,000 monthly Spotify listeners and followers.

Chad (4m 37s):

Holy Fuck!

Joel (4m 38s):

In addition to his/hers/its I don't know what pronoun they use. Their new contract. Confused? Yeah, me too. This thing is voiced by human, but everything else about it, him at their whatever. From the lyrics to the chords and tempo underpinning the music is all AI generated. Chad's already in love with the robot rapper's new single, Florida Water.

Chad (5m 3s):

I did liIke it.

Joel (5m 5s):

I know that's on a eternal play on your iPod. Biggie and Tupac Just like the Colonel are undoubtedly rolling around in their graves right now. But FN Meka might just be the future of music kids.

Chad (5m 17s):

God man. Well, what they're not going to be able to do. Knock on wood is replaced podcasts. That's right, dude. We've had some of the most amazing interviews lately. Sean Behr, the CEO over at Fountain talking about how he doesn't believe there's a labor shortage. We had a great conversation with Sumit Gupta to the CTO over at Pando about the evolution of chat bots. And then this week WorkHuman CHR Steve Pemberton joined us for an interview called A Change in the World. Probably one of our best interviews we've ever done. We're on fire with guests lately so this has been good. If you haven't listened, go to or wherever you listen to podcasts, but check out the interviews.

Joel (6m 3s):

Oh man, where to jinx it. It's all downhill from here, kids.

Chad (6m 7s):

Ah shit.

Joel (6m 7s):

By the way I speaking of FN Meka and music, I posted a Spotify, had a survey that said most people, most people, not a hundred percent stop listening to new music after around the age of 33. I posted that on Facebook where all my fellow old people that think they're still cool on Facebook were really quick to come out and say, no, I'm cool. I'm still looking. I'm still listening to new music. So that was little side note to music. Do you, have you stopped sort of listening to new artists since 33 years old?

Chad (6m 34s):

I don't know that I've stopped since 33 years old, but I do find myself when using Spotify going to playlists that are, I mean, they're already curated. So sometimes I find myself listening to more of the older stuff because there are some amazing playlists that are out there instead of looking for newer stuff.

Joel (6m 53s):

Yeah. It kind of supports your existing biases. Right. So yeah.

Chad (6m 57s):

Yeah, it does. To some extent. Yeah. I do like me some Doja Cat though. What's

Joel (7m 2s):

Doja Cat. Harry Styles is where it's at Chad Harry Styles. Look it up just like Google is where it's at Chad brings me to my second shout out. Who's in the mood for a major algorithm update everybody.

Chad (7m 15s):

Oh God.

Joel (7m 16s):

Nervousness you hear is all the job boards worried about their rankings

Chad (7m 19s):


Joel (7m 19s):

The world's biggest search engine announced recently it's rolling out new search updates over the next few weeks and we'll aim to make it easier for people to find high quality content. The new ranking improvements will work to reduce the amount of low quality or unoriginal content that ranks high in search results today. Google says the update will especially target content that has been created primarily for ranking on search engines, known as SEO first content rather than human first content. Also that nervousness is the headquarters of the ladders Monster and CareerBuilder who churn out this dribble on a regular basis.

Chad (8m 3s):


Joel (8m 3s):

You're ready for ranking decreases everybody.

Chad (8m 5s):

Yeah. I remember back in the day when Panda came out and it really fucked a bunch of job boards. I mean, there were some job boards that actually shut down because of that algorithm change.

Joel (8m 18s):

Yeah. Google has been sort of quiet on the big update front for awhile. This one, they were pretty verbal about happening. So, you know, check your search rankings, everybody. They could be a shuffling over the next few weeks. Well, before we leave shout outs, shout, let's get to some, some free shit and what's going on. A lot of stuff is going on. We're redesigning shirts, new sponsors for whiskey beer. T-shirts from JobGet. Beer from our friends at Aspen Tech Labs. Textkernel as always is making whiskey happen for people. We're re-designing t-shirts. FactoryFix is sponsoring fantasy football this year.

Chad (8m 57s):

Love those guys!

Joel (8m 58s):

We've got HR Tech events from sponsored by This Way Global and Tatio. Those are private events. So hit us up on the DMs. Slide into our DMs if you're interested in any of those. But free shit guys, you got to go to, click the button. Also leave us a review on your, your platform of choice wherever you listen to podcasts. We love getting feedback and it's our oxygen and the only way we get better.

sfx (9m 30s):

Get ready, Vegas you fucking beautiful bitch.

Chad (9m 32s):

Events. So 13th through the 16th, September in Vegas for HR Tech at what's going on. Well, Joel just told a little bit about that, but on Tuesday, the first full day of the conference, we're taking over a portion of one of the bars and Mandalay Bay. That's right. Tuesday with our friends from Tatio.

Joel (9m 56s):


Chad (9m 56s):

And then on Wednesday, Wednesday, This Way Global is having a shindig in one of the penthouses. Now listen, kids seating is limited, which is why we're not putting this out on the socials or anything like that. If you're interested, ping us, but seating is limited. You better do it quick. Drinks on Chad and Cheese Tatio and This Way Global.

Joel (10m 19s):

By the way, sending us whiskey may or may not help your chances into getting to these events. But speaking to people who need a drink, let's talk about birthdays.

sfx (10m 30s):

Birthdays! Here's a list of everyone ready to buy a Buick.

Joel (10m 33s):

First of all, my wife celebrated a birthday this week. Big, big shout out to her. She turned 29 again. She turned 29 again.

Chad (10m 41s):

Did you bake a cake?

Joel (10m 43s):

I baked a cake. I baked a funfetti vanilla cake, Chad, and it looks like shit, but apparently it tastes alright.

Chad (10m 52s):

Our very own Betty Crocker, Joel Cheesman.

Joel (10m 56s):

That's right. That's right. In addition to my wife celebrating a birthday, Nick Livingston, a buddy from Honeit. Ryan Leary, Aman Brar celebrates a birthday. Joe Stubblebine Bradley Clark, Ron Bauer, funky cold Medina Maderis, Sean Kelleher, Tracy Cole, and last but not least Beverly Collins, who by the way, Chad is rumored to be listening to this very show from a heated seat and a black Maserati. Happy birthday, everybody.

Chad (11m 35s):

Happy Birthday! TOPICS!

Joel (11m 36s):


Chad (11m 36s):

Oh Dude.

Joel (11m 37s):

Popular ATS iCIMS has a new sugar daddy. You'll remember they were acquired by a PE firm Vista a few years ago, but now it's looking like a threesome. TA Associates, a global growth private equity firm is now also a partner in the business. Vista and TA will partner together to further accelerate global growth and product development. Susquehanna Growth Equity, which first invested in iCIMS back in 2012 and made an additional investment in 2015 will continue to be a shareholder as well after teasing a $100 million IPO last year, then withdrawing it in may of this year. Chad, what do you make of this news out of iCIMS?

Chad (12m 19s):

It's an iCIMS ménage à trois kids. So some people have become even more rich this week and iCIMS now has an even bigger piggy bank as they continue to position themselves against the other players in the market. It's pretty simple. They have a shit ton of momentum. Yes. They were going for the IPO, not quite the best market in which to continue that. So that's fine. They pivoted and they haven't stopped it. It seems like they are continuously in the news.

Joel (12m 51s):

Yeah. You know, the natural progression for iCIMS was IPO. Unfortunately, the market turned cold and ZipRecruiter in the public markets turned out to be akin to a submarine with a screen door.

Chad (13m 1s):

As a litmus test.

Joel (13m 4s):

Yeah. So the global growth that they would have been able to pursue with public money had to be replaced with private equity and enter TA Associates who has a core competency on global growth. So this means iCIMS can behave like a public company without actually being one, show the kind of growth that they would have with public money. Then they'll need to show that kind of growth globally. When it does come time to hit up Wall Street. I like this deal a lot. I think the extra money, replacing what they would've got in the public markets. How long it's going to take for the public markets to come back? I don't know, Vladimir Putin might have something to say about that, but at some point the IPO market will heat up again and IiCIMS will go public.

Joel (13m 45s):

And I think it'll be a very good day for them, as well as all the other companies that are waiting to go public. And it's going to be a great day and year for podcasts who can't wait to talk about all these companies going IPO.

Chad (14m 5s):

Yeah. Look for acquisitions kids. This is going to be money that's front-end for some acquisitions. And I have heard some rumblings of multiple, not just one multiple acquisitions that iCIMS are actually looking at. They've been slowed down because of the market. But I think this is a pretty good signal to the rest of us that the iCIMS machine is not stopping.

Joel (14m 27s):

Did you ask the source if iCIMS needs to add a podcast to the portfolio with all that money? I could name one that they could buy. Anyway. That's great insight. You ready to play a little buy or sell? We haven't played in a while.

Chad (14m 42s):


Joel (14m 43s):

All right. You know how this game plays kids. We have three startups. They've all gotten money recently. I read a summary and then Chad and I either buy or sell it. We're starting with Growth Space, which happens to be what I call my swim trunk area Chad. The New York City-based Growth Space has raised $25 million in Series B funding. This brings total to $44 million dollars founded in 2018. The company is an upscaling platform. They use the funds to expand globally. Growth Space employees 279 people. Pretty big company for a startup. That's according to LinkedIn. Upscaling is hot Chad!

Joel (15m 23s):

Are you a buyer sell on Growth Space?

Chad (15m 27s):

Growth Space. Is that because you went from a double X to a triple X around your waist? Is that why? Okay. Anyway, so let's start off with Price Waterhouse Coopers survey that demonstrated that 50% of workers face discrimination at work, which led to them missing out on training and or career advancement confirmed by a study of 32,500 workers in 19 countries found unequal access to career and training opportunities. So this is a message to all the HR practitioners out there listening. If your managers aren't being watched up-skilling platforms, don't always lead to uniform and unbiased outcomes.

Chad (16m 8s):

That being said, do we really need AI in this segment? They push AI a lot. Why the fuck do we need it? Do I need an algorithm to match me with experts in courses? Or can I just jump into courses that are connected to certain career paths? Adding AI into this conversation seems unnecessary and an added layer of perspective bias, not to mention huge waste of fucking cash. They've taken $44 million, which is about 10% of what Udemy has taken. And even less than 10% of what Coursera is taken. I might've been on board if they weren't wasting course and development dollars on AI.

Chad (16m 49s):

So it is a sell for me.

Joel (16m 52s):

No, no Growth Space. By the way, kids, we don't rehearse these jokes. These are all like off the cuff. Gold people. Total gold. All right, well, Chad, one of my big trends for 2022 was H.U.R. That's HUR and stands for Healthcare Upscaling and Robots. You know, I prefer so-so companies riding a big wave better than I do a great company riding a shitty wave. Growth Space is going to have to try hard, not to be a so-so company with $44 million dollars. They're also at that nice funding, sweet spot where the number of suitors is still pretty big.

Joel (17m 35s):

There'll be taken out in the next 18 to 24 months, which means for me, Growth Space is a buy. Alright, let's go to Sabanto

Chad (17m 46s):


Joel (17m 46s):

Swarming, farm autonomy company Sabanto and they go, I've never said swarming on the show. Before based in Chitown, they announced a $17 million Series A funding round, this brings total funding to $22.2 million. Founded in 2018 the company brings robots, swarms of robots, apparently to agriculture. Helping solve the talent shortage in farming. Sabanto will use the funds to accelerate their mission, to make autonomy and affordable, reliable and scalable solution for all farmers. Said one happy customer quote "Finally, a company is solving our labor problems"

Joel (18m 26s):

end quote. Sabanto employees, just 23 brainiacs. Chad, are you a buy or sell on robotic agriculture?

Chad (18m 32s):

Well, every industry in the world is looking to automate as it becomes harder to find talent for open positions. Farming is no different. And then how else seriously? How are we gonna farm? We can't find the people. How are we going to farm then? How are we going to feed people? There is no doubt in my mind that automation will come quickly to farming. Is Sabanto the company to take it there? Or will they suffer the slings and arrows of brave explorers? I don't know, but I do believe automation is a foregone conclusion in farming and I believe a much larger name in the farm industry will gobble this tech up and outfit its equipment in less than a year.

Chad (19m 16s):

That's my prediction. It's a buy. A big buy for me.

Joel (19m 21s):

Enthusiastic buy from Mr. Sowash. Alright, well Chad, you know, my grandfather was a farmer.

Chad (19m 29s):

No I did not.

Joel (19m 30s):

Now you do. My grandfather was salt of the earth farmer, Chad in Hope Indiana. Anyway, it's backbreaking work.

Chad (19m 36s):


Joel (19m 36s):

You're up at Dawn. Weather sucks. Pesticides, pricing pressures, and we know shitty jobs are going to be done by robots in the future and this company is in a fantastic position to grab a big piece of that pie. Wintergreen research says agricultural loan is a $17 billion market opportunity for robotics and robotics overall is expected to reach a staggering $74 billion market by 2026. There will be a lot of room for a lot of winners and I like Sabanto's shot at being one of those winners unlike the football team in their headquartered city of Chicago.

Joel (20m 18s):

This one is also a big buy from me.

Chad (20m 22s):


Joel (20m 22s):

All right, last but not least Chad. Well, maybe it is least we'll find out Modern Loop, the San Francisco based company has raised $9 million dollars in a Series A round, this brings total funding to $12.1 million. Founded in 2020 the company helps recruiters schedule interviews, resolve interview meeting conflicts, send day of reminders and coordinate interviewers. Modern Loop will use the funds to further expand the company. Chad, we first interviewed Modern Loop competitor Good Time back in 2018, but we're still trying to solve this whole scheduling problem. Are you a buy or sell on Modern Loop?

Chad (21m 1s):

So, I believe Modern Loop is the only startup that has made its second appearance on buy or sell. So big applause for that at least, right? We talked about Modern Loop's seed funding about a year ago, and I still have the same mindset. I believe what they're trying to achieve is either already baked into core talent platforms or other systems which support those platforms or TA just doesn't believe this is a problem. The exec team has an impressive background, but no experience in this space. And it doesn't seem like they've made much progress over the last year. At least from the messaging standpoint, which drives sales and insurers, this startup doesn't die on the vine.

Chad (21m 43s):

I think they went from zero or just a few customers. Now they have dozens. So they didn't have that. That much of a

Joel (21m 52s):

It's not zero to hero Chad. That is not zero to hero.

Chad (21m 57s):

So I'm not convinced Modern Loop really understands the problems or the industry let alone knows how to address them if they even exist. That's a sell for me.

Joel (22m 7s):

Yeah. Scheduling is a feature. It's all becoming part of the fabric of all the platforms, chat bots and CRMs out there. The best these guys can hope for as an acquisition. Good Time, which started as a scheduling solution hasn't been acquired and keeps on building new things like something they call 'smart meetings', whatever that is. They're going to keep spinning their wheels and eventually run out of money and probably go away at some point. Unless they pivot and find that secret sauce it's a knife at a gunfight. I am also a sell on Modern Loop. Let's take a quick break and cheese we're going to break it down hot take style.

Joel (22m 47s):

I'll take potpourri for 400 Alex. All right, Chad, let's get some hot takes on some news that occurred this week or her trending topics. Number one, let's talk about 'quiet quitting' because all the kids are talking about it. I first thought it meant just not working from home till someone noticed and you got fired or that it meant looking for another job while you, you know, sort of milk the clock at your current employer. Urban Dictionary is just as confused by the way, they have like four or five different definitions for this, but it can be best described as the concept of no longer going above and beyond and instead doing what their job description requires of them and nothing more.

Joel (23m 32s):

Let's play a clip from friend of the show, HR Manifesto to get her take on what quiet quitting is.

Leigh (23m 41s):

Are you a quitter, like me apparently? I just learned about this quiet quitting had never heard of it before. Okay. Talk about gaslighting of victim blaming at its finest, that shifts the sole responsibility and accountability to employee engagement to the worker. Are you kidding me? Do you know what quiet quitting is? It's living. It's literally, it's literally living. We are in the in times where now it's considered quietly quitting your job to have a life outside of work. It's about having priorities, establishing boundaries, having balance, right? Not sacrificing at all and burning out for your job.

Leigh (24m 23s):

It's about acting your wage. That's quiet quitting. What in the Jeff Bezos obviously coined this term, BS is this, let's shift the accountability for employee engagement, where it goes. It's on the employer. Because how can we expect employees to show up to work, shooting sunshine, rainbows, and glitter out their backsides without giving them a reason to? Without inspiring them without giving them purpose, a sense of belonging, connectivity, respect, dignity, you name it? Why would we expect people to show up that way, fully engaged without a reason? Without something to be engaged for or with or on?

Leigh (25m 3s):

Are you kidding me? The sole responsibility for employee engagement does not lie with the worker. We should not be focused on quiet quitting. That's not a thing. We should be focusing our attention on the countless organizations that routinely and consistently engage in loud failing by putting profits over people and then stupidly sitting back and wondering why people don't want to work there. Why they don't want to support a system that doesn't support them, why they don't want to be dedicated and committed to cultures that don't serve them in any way.

Leigh (25m 43s):

To places and organizations where they can't even thrive or succeed. Stop loud failing. How about that? Because I'm not a quitter, but boy, have I been failed and quit on?

Chad (25m 53s):

She gets it. This is what we've been seeing with corporate narratives and we'll talk about more on the show about that a little bit later when people are treated like shit and they're still expected to go above and beyond, they reject that then, oh, it's their fault. It's not the corporation's fault.

Joel (26m 10s):

Yeah. Look, we talk about boiling the frog on the show quite a bit.

Chad (26m 18s):


Joel (26m 19s):

And you and I got to see the evolution of this right. There actually was a time when you left the office and that was it. You were done until the next day as laptops, smartphones, messaging solutions became ubiquitous well, so did work. And for 25 years, no one said shit. It almost became like cool to be able to check email while you watch Seinfeld, you know, in the nineties. Right? So it became normalized and it shouldn't have, and 25 years later, we're like, oh shit, this is unhealthy. This is bad for us. So I obviously we're all applauding this trend and hope that it continues, hope that companies realize that people need a life outside of work.

Joel (26m 59s):

It's incredibly important for our mental health, for just being human and being good citizen of humanity. So yeah, no one could say it better than Leigh if you're not following her on TikTok, or I think she's everywhere is HR Manifesto make sure that you connect with her because she is full of knowledge like she just dropped on the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad (27m 29s):

Good shit.

Joel (27m 29s):

From a quiet quitting to boomeranging. This is from Bloomberg. Forget returned to the office in this economy, many employees are returning to previous employers breaking taboos about workplace loyalty and bucking assumptions about the so-called great resignation. The grass isn't always greener and a tight labor market means previous employers are willing to take workers back. Chad, what you got on the current state of boomeranging?

Chad (27m 49s):

You're gonna love it. The rules are out the fucking window. We're talking about quiet quitting, which is just total bullshit. It's now we're looking at employers to pay us for that extra time. If they want the extra time you pay us for the extra time boomerangs, although are seeing promotions and raises. When companies feel like they, you know, they can stifle employees and they can keep them down and not to give them raises and not allow them to be promoted and so on and so forth. Employees leave. And then what are the costs of perspectively getting them back, or at least filling that position if they just treated them right in the first place, would they have left?

Chad (28m 36s):

So once again, we're focusing on a narrative around the employee instead of the actual company. The employee's not the problem here, the boomerangs are leaving and many of them are coming back to promotions and twice the salary they left. So I think they made out well.

Joel (28m 52s):

Yeah, it's a strategy that typically in any normal situation would have backfired. You would have not been able to go back to the employer. Now it's sort of normal. It's like, Hey, forgiven. Oh yeah, your market value is more. Now let's look at that as an option and hopefully people are learning that. You know, I talked about my grandfather, but my mom used to say that the grass is greener where you water it, not on the other side necessarily. So the studies that I saw in this story said that there's no sort of the work doesn't suffer, basically. Like people are coming back, they're still productive as they were before. There's no sort of hurt feelings. Like might, you might find it a relationship. At least I've found that, you know, it doesn't work as hard when you come back.

Joel (29m 34s):

So anyway, that's another podcast, but yeah, I mean this, this fad, I don't expect it to be like commonplace the boomerang trend, but with the great resignation, everyone was like, Hey, the grass is greener on this other side. Not so much. A lot of those companies weren't as exciting, profitable, promising as people thought. Go back to where you were, but Hey, it's better pay and maybe they appreciate you more when you go back.

Chad (30m 1s):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think, again, this isn't about the grasping greener for the employee. This is about the employer actually watering the fucking grass that the employee is on. So as they go over to another organization, which might be different and then that employer's like, oh yeah, let me go ahead and pay you some more. Let me water this grass over here. Would you like to come back? You know, we need to start thinking about this in an entirely different way. This isn't on the person, this is on the company, much like the 'quiet quitting' piece to ensure that they have actual real employee engagement and that they give a shit. So we're asking employers to give a shit nowadays versus, you know, back in the eighties when I was just like treat 'em like shit, boiler room and you know, work 80 hours a week.

Joel (30m 43s):

Yeah. And you know, this is actually a pretty good recruiting strategy. If people aren't using it like, to try to get in touch with past employees that you'd like to bring back, you know, three to six months down the road. If the situation that they left for isn't as good and letting them know that the door is open, might be a good recruiting strategy to get those folks back. Knowing that boomeranging is a thing now.

Chad (31m 10s):

Yeah. What we call them before we're alumni, that is actually a strategy that company's have used for years,

Joel (31m 18s):

Tomato, tomato. Let's talk about Apple.

Chad (31m 20s):

Oh, very nice.

Joel (31m 21s):

Apple's back to the office strategy, which calls for three days a week in person, hit a snag this week, employees have started a petition saying the company is stifling diversity and staff wellbeing by restricting their ability to work remotely. The group known as Apple together, reportedly intends to collect signatures this week before verifying them and sending them to the iPhone maker's executives. Chad are you in or out on Apple togethers petition.

Chad (31m 47s):

Yeah, I think again, we're going to see this and this is what Steve Pemberton actually said on his interview is that nobody's figured this out. Apple hasn't figured it out. I mean, nobody's figured this out. We're going to actually find that some people are going to leave the organization because they don't agree with how you do work. And that's okay. This is just because somebody you're losing people doesn't mean that you can't stick to your core values if that's what you believe as an organization. Now, some of these organizations I think will change dramatically because the talent walking out the door is going to be way too much to lose. So yeah, I mean, we'll see with Apple, but there are going to be some Jamie Diamond's of the world who will stay strict maybe.

Chad (32m 33s):

And then there are others that will, I mean, they'll make changes. So this is an evolution in work, which I think is exciting.

Joel (32m 40s):

Yeah. And I think it's not only an evolution. I think it's a fluid situation. I think, you know, I think timing has lot to do with this. And look, it was in the news recently that Apple laid off a hundred contract recruiters. They're on record as saying that they're gonna, you know, pull back hiring and slow spending due to the economy. Well, when recruiters get fired, you know what happens? Usually a lot of other people start getting fired or leaving. So in terms of this petition, I think the timing is wrong, is off. I think that the chances of it working are about less than zero. Apple is going to try this three days a week. They're doing Tuesday and Thursday mandatory. And then the other is sort of based on what your team wants to do or what you want to do personally.

Joel (33m 24s):

And they're going to roll with this scenario and whether it works or not, we're gonna find out just like you said, nobody knows how this is all going to turn out. It's going to get ugly and messy and I think we're learning that timing has a lot to do with it. When companies are begging for talent, they're hiring at brisk paces, they're much more open to these kinds of requests so to work from home a hundred percent of the time, the boiling frog that we've talked about though, is, does Apple eventually get from three days to, you know what, let's go to four because you know, we need you here. You know, times are tough.

Joel (34m 4s):

We're trying to make quarter, et cetera. This is a very fluid situation I think that we'll be finding from the work from home scenarios,

Chad (34m 15s):

From Apple to Lowe's.

Joel (34m 17s):

Yes, right? Home improvement, baby Lowe's will provide $55 million in bonuses to its hourly frontline workers to help with the burden of high inflation the retailer said in an earnings call this week. Lowe's employs approximately 300,000 associates coordinate to the company's website, but it has not specified how much money each worker would receive and over what period of time. But the math works out to around $183 per worker. Sounds great right, Chad? What are your thoughts?

Chad (34m 51s):

If you read this article, you have to hang your head because Lowe's, you can do better. Because shrouding these bonuses as quote unquote, "help with the burden of high inflation" is a total bullshit narrative. Lowe's have reportedly had morale and retention problem for years. That's why they started a four day work week for FTEs recently, and now hoping bonuses do the trick. When in all reality, the pandemic boosted Lowe's sales and profits. Lowe's revenue for the 12 months ending July 31st, 2022 was $95.4 billion dollars alone.

Chad (35m 31s):

And when you see Lowe's year over year quarterly growth, which starts to explode in April of 2020. You know, when COVID started really hitting us hard, we had to stay home. We needed to turn our bedrooms and basements into offices. You remember that shit, but Lowe's was making bank, working their essential workers hard and not sharing the bounty of the profits with the frontline workers. So I believe Lowe's are having the same problem. Amazon is having in many communities where they're actually burning through workers.

Chad (36m 11s):

This $55 million is literally a bandaid on a sunken chest wound.

Joel (36m 14s):

You got dark on that one, man. So, I mean, I guess it's better than a shot to the taint, but it's mostly sugar rush type stuff. The company gets some positive PR wow $55 million. How generous?! No one reads past the headlines. They just see like, wow, that sounds like a lot of money. That's great. Sure. Shareholders like it as a quarterly retention tool and employees, I guess get a dopa hit, knowing that they're going to get a little bit of cash. How about salary increases people? Would that kill you? I know that shareholders don't love that, there'd be backlash. I wish we would see more of salary increases versus these bonuses because it's a sugar rush as opposed to a well balanced meal.

Joel (36m 58s):


Chad (36m 59s):

Agreed. I agree.

Joel (37m 0s):

By the way, by the way, all this giving people money and forgiving debt is really dumb if our goal is to reduce inflation. But I guess that's another, another podcast. Let's take a quick break and talk about Indeed and TikTok two of your favorite topics Chad.

Chad (37m 19s):


Joel (37m 19s):

Indeed and TikTok. Chad, is there a better marriage for a podcast like ours to talk about?

Chad (37m 27s):

This is interesting.

Joel (37m 28s):

It is interesting. So Indeed and TikTok are launching a campaign aimed at young job seekers in Singapore. Alongside the six month campaign, Indeed has also set up a TikTok channel for generation Z's and millennials looking for work in the country. The "you better work boss" campaign is intended to encourage young candidates to apply for jobs through you guessed it Chad, They'll broadcast content on such topics as mental health, work stress, various professions, job market readiness, and the future of work. Chad, are you buying or selling Indeed jumping on the TikTok bandwagon.

Chad (38m 7s):

I got to say, this is just smart. I understand there are problems with TikTok and some vendors will avert their eyes and their marketing, but we all know Google tracks us. And yet we still SCO and SCM the hell out of everything that we do on the web. A partnership like this continues to beat down all of the other brands and those brands deserve it. All those competitors deserve it. If I'm an Indeed competitor, meaning job board aggregator, interviewing system and/or even ATS, I would walk into my marketing department's office, close the door and read them the riot act because they've once again been outflanked by Indeed.

Chad (38m 50s):

We don't know if this is going to work or not, but you got to try kids and doesn't seem like anybody's fucking trying out there other than these assholes over at Indeed.

Joel (39m 0s):

So Indeed's reaction to having the SCO rug pulled out from under them five years ago, with the introduction of Google for jobs and the rise of programmatic was traditional advertising. Now they have a downturn in the economy and the number of job postings. So diving into TikTok with hopes of replacing visitors, garnered by TV ads with ones garnered by TikTok is probably a good strategy. Whether it's a long-term or short-term strategy, we will obviously find out over time. I'm assuming this will go beyond Singapore. We'll see it in many more markets. This is I'm guessing a test market.

Joel (39m 41s):

However, there are some risks here that I see. Number one TikTok gets shut down by the US because of its China connection. Number two, TikTok gets replaced by another app, another hot social media platform in the next few years, or number three, advertising on TikTok eventually gets to be just as expensive as traditional advertising and Google and Facebook and all the others and you're just back where you started. Hopefully they're getting a good deal and not risking too much at this point and Chad speaking of good deals, I'm starving and it's BOGO day at Buffalo Wild Wings.

Chad and Cheese (40m 22s):

We out.

OUTRO (40m 22s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode.

OUTRO (41m 4s):

And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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