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Indeed Gets Penalized

When I grow up ... Super Bowl ads in our industry are back with Indeed's decision to drop $10 million plus on an ad in the Big Game. Where's the flag on jobseeker encroachment?

What's more?

- Buy or Sell with 1) GoodJob 2) Oyster and 3) Careerist

Enjoy this Jobvite, JobAdx, and Sovren powered episode.


INTRO (2s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (22s):

Oh yeah. When I grow up, I don't want to be a yes man. Yes, sir. Yes, Ma'am. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast, boys and girls. I'm your cohost Joel space laser Cheesman.

Chad (34s):

And I'm Chad executive order Sowash.

Joel (37s):

And on this week, show Indeed jumps into the Super Bowl Ad arms race, has a scratching our heads and do not get on Holland McHughs bad side.

Sovren (50s):

You already know that Sovren makes the world's best resume CV parser, but did you know that Sovren also makes the world's best AI matching engine? Only Sovren's AI matching engine goes beyond the buzzwords. With Sovren you control how the engine thinks with every match the Sovren engine tells you what matched and exactly how each matching document was scored. And if you don't agree with the way it's scored the matches, you can simply move some sliders to tell it, to score the matches your way. No other engine on earth gives you that combination of insight and control. With Sovren, matching isn't some frustrating "black box, trust us, it's magic, one shot deal" like all the others. No, with Sovren, matching is completely understandable, completely controllable, and actually kind of fun. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.

Music (1m 49s):

Y'all trippin Tyler when it comes to hourly jobs, and this is how we do it.

Chad (1m 58s):

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

Joel (1m 59s):

Guys. If you haven't seen this video and heard their whole song, please, please go to YouTube and watch it. Fuckin epic as the kids say.

Chad (2m 15s):

It's hilarious. It's fun and nothing this cool ever happens in HR or talent acquisition.

Joel (2m 24s):

By the way, if you're, if you're looking for a special gift for that special someone, because Valentine's day is coming up, Chad.

Chad (2m 30s):

Oh yeah.

Joel (2m 31s):

Montel is on Cameo. So if you want to have a little lovely note for your spouse or girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever, have Montel drop the love for Valentine's day. Little tip from the love doctor, Cheese,

Chad (2m 45s):

You know, who also had a sweet hit, Jason Putnam from pandologic. The dude is an artist and I don't mean musical artists. Well, maybe he is. But in this case he drew his very own version of the Chad and Cheese for his bookshelves, the background for his zoom. So now I would assume if you had take a call with Jason, if you focus a little bit harder over his, one of his shoulders, you might see the Chad and Cheese and Jason Putnam version. So yeah, that's a big, applause.

Joel (3m 18s):

I only have a little issue with his dimensions because he has me about a foot shorter than you even with the captain's hat. And I'm not sure, you know what he was thinking on that one because I'm clearly a good six inches taller than you.

Chad (3m 33s):

You're you're you're standing in a hole. No big deal.

Joel (3m 37s):

I look like George Castanza with a beard.

Chad (3m 43s):

Well, I like to say we had a great time last night with our Pappy's winners. Morton over at Tradify, Matt O'Donnell from People Scout and sponsor Robert Rough from Sovren. Unfortunately, Pete Suchi from CVS, he couldn't make it, he was sick. Hopefully he doesn't have the Covid.

Joel (4m 4s):

I can confirm it's not a Covid thing, but Pete Sushi has the flu. He's going to be all right. Well, we'll try to reschedule it. Good. I kind of feel like because he was the Blanton's winner, he felt a little bit, you know, less than, less than worthy of being on a call with two Pappy's bottles. But I don't know, we'll see.

Chad (4m 24s):

A $500 bottle of bourbon. Yeah. Blazer,

Joel (4m 31s):

Chin George Costanza. Well, the nineties made another newsworthy thing this week that caught our attention. Screech from Saved By the Bell passed away this week, Screech 44.

Chad (4m 44s):

Did it say how?

Joel (4m 45s):


Chad (4m 46s):


Joel (4m 46s):

Teachable moment kids. If you're hitting that 40 plus age range, which a lot of our listeners are, make sure you go see the doctor on a regular basis. By the way, little known fact, a Screech was in a sex tape. Come on in the mid two thousands. After his career was on the skids. He tried to jumpstart. If you will, and get it back to growth mode with a, with a sex tape, which nobody remembers. So it obviously didn't work like it did for the Kardashians

Chad (5m 14s):

Saved by the dildo. Please keep that in. Cause I got nothing. Before we forget God, my brain is total mush this morning anyway. We're giving away free t-shirts kids. That's right. Sponsored by Emissary ed from Philly. One, one he guys, so John, go to or just click on free in the upper right-hand corner. You can win t-shirts we have free beer from Adzuna. We've got something to talk about there don't we?

Joel (5m 48s):

Yep. Yep. So Dennis Tupper a big fan of the show for probably when we first started was our random winner. So we'll be sending out beer to Dennis there in will be scheduling a call to do a little zoom tasting connect with him, free beer. And by the way, there's a new one. You mentioned Sovren, they've agreed to kill everyone's liver. We're giving away bourbon, whiskey, Scotch it's a Chad and Cheese pick. Remember blockbuster where each employee had their picks for movies. We're going to do a whiskey pick and we're going to send whiskey to some winner.

Joel (6m 28s):

So yeah, you just go to one place, And we're talking t-shirts beer and whiskey. I mean, until we start giving away weed, I don't know what else you can can up that. Nothing can better that.

Chad (6m 43s):

Again, this is not just a bottle of whiskey. Yes, we did give away Papi's. That was a 2000 over $2,000.

Joel (6m 50s):

Yeah. Don't get your hopes up on the monthly.

Chad (6m 53s):

But we're actually, Joel is picking a bottle. I'm picking a bottle, which means one person will get two bottles and we'll be able to sit down and again, have a little gathering, a little, a little a zoom drinking. So it should be, it should be fun.

Joel (7m 7s):

Yeah. And I'm excited. Spring is right around the corner. I'm ready for a little drinking outside on the porch. I'm excited to do some of that with some industry folks. So head on out to today.

Chad (7m 22s):

I'm going to pimp the recruitment flex with a surge in Shelly. They obviously did a dry run with you. They wanted to get it right. Or at least try to tune out all the kinks before they, they brought the big guns in.

Joel (7m 37s):

I was the beta version? Is that what you're saying that I was the test case?

Chad (7m 41s):

We talked about the shit show. AKA the last four years here in the US. Recruitment tech, mainly programmatic video interviewing systems we had a blast and we also talked about the prospect of doing a crossover like we did with the peeps at TApod.

Joel (7m 57s):


Chad (7m 58s):

Yeah. Where you could actually go on the, be a guest host at Recruitment Flex, and you and Serge could talk about tragically hip for a fucking hour. And Shelly could come down here and we could pretty much just talk about recruitment tech, get drunk.

Joel (8m 12s):

Tragically Hip, Arcade Fire, Justin Bieber. Yeah, we could, we could do it all, man. All the Matt Good.

Chad (8m 20s):

I threw out Rush and BTO. I mean, those are solid rock bands. Yes. They were in the eighties, but there are solid rock bands. And then you've got these like tragically bad bands. Listen.

Joel (8m 32s):

Oh, don't don't sit the Canadians are gonna stop listening If you dis Tragically Hip. That's like Springsteen, REM and Dylan, all in all in one band, if you're Canadian.

Chad (8m 44s):

Tragically sad.

Joel (8m 45s):

Celine Dion is more my speed. Avril Levine, Nickelback.

Chad (8m 51s):

And last but not least, March 18th kids, our friends from Sweden, that's the Sweden's TNG and ADA Digital. They're having an, an unbiased day. Just go to scroll down a tad, you'll see a little painted little painted lady there register. It's free. Some of your favorite people from TNG and age a to digital will be speaking ASA, Sarah Elan, plus my lovely wife is going to be speaking along with a Bas van de Haterd on. I know I'm getting closer to saying that right boss, but it looks like a pretty awesome event. If you are here in the U S or you're over in Europe, it's time to go global people.

Chad (9m 33s):

We should be used to this by now. So go check it out again.

Joel (9m 38s):

Now the painted woman. Isn't a tin guy as it should be like a wig.

Chad (9m 42s):

Yeah, it should be, it really should be. Elan, you need to get on that. No, actually Charlotte, you should be on that.

Joel (9m 48s):

Charlotte or paint up Elan. She'd be, she looked good in some, some neon pink and some Abba blue. I don't know what that means. Let's go to the new.

Chad (9m 59s):


Joel (9m 59s):

Chad, you remember 1999, don't you. And the first Superbowl ad, what you remember it very well. And you've, I think you've told the history lesson pretty, pretty well in the past, but Indeed has decided they're going to get into the arms race. So they've announced the first half of the big game, they're doing a 30 second ad reportedly at a cost of roughly $5.6 million. They'll be utilizing the hashtag #nowhiring in coordination with the ad, which means every job board and staffing agency in the world is going to be trolling. The hashtag #nowhiring up until the game. Going for the warm and fuzzy. Actually it's a 60 second spot, forgive me.

Joel (10m 41s):

So they're gonna drop roughly 10 plus million on this thing.

Chad (10m 43s):

Have you seen it?

Joel (10m 45s):

I have not seen it. It's yeah. It's warm and fuzzy, right? Yeah.

Chad (10m 49s):

I've seen it. It depicts everyday people overall. It's the big theme behind it is it's called "the rising," but the song rise up is behind, it's playing in the music bed. It's very well done. It tugs at the heartstrings and the product is woven into the story itself. This is really a Superflex against the rest of the industry. Hindsight being 2020. Why, why do this?

Joel (11m 14s):

So I wrote a post on this over at poach and historically speaking, and you and I are old enough to have sort of this context to the issue. You know, there was a day in 99 when all this happened, you know, before YouTube, before social media, before really Google was a thing where the mindset was really, you have to be Coke or Pepsi, or you're just going to be feeding on the crumbs of whatever industry that you, that you're in and a way to become number one or two was well drop a bunch of money on the Super Bowl. And Monster had this vision of being sort of this monolithic brand that was every job was posted there, right? And they could, they could increase prices accordingly and be the, you know, be the 800 pound gorilla, hot jobs advertised sort of for a different reason.

Joel (11m 60s):

Now they definitely shot themselves up into the top echelon of job sites, but then they sold off to Yahoo a couple of years later. So I think they sort of achieve what they wanted to do. Whereas Monster had a little bit of a longer horizon. And for the, you know, for the next up until about 2008 or '09, I'd say we talked about CareerBuilder and monster ads on the Super Bowl almost every year. And it was part of that same sort of mentality. Well, the 2008 happened, 2009. There've been very few Superbowl ads since the great recession, probably for good reason, the world has changed. There's a lot more fragmentation. There's Google, there's Facebook, there's LinkedIn. So it's really hard to sort of justify an investment like that because it's not just the, the ad itself.

Joel (12m 45s):

It's the making of the ad. It's the followup stuff. It's the branding and things you do after that. So I feel like whereas 1999 was more of a, Hey, we want to make a big splash to be number one today. It's more like we want to make a big splash to keep hold of number one for as long as we possibly can, because we kind of feel like the ice is melting under our feet. And we want to get a life raft if we can possibly do it. So to me, it's much more of like a desperation or a clinging to power than it is a new kid on the block. And we want to be the big swinging Dick. Your thoughts.

Chad (13m 21s):

One thing this does is it provides a, it's a job seeker specific commercial, right? The call to action, everything that's happening around it around it is for job seekers. Indeed has bigger problems than traffic. So this commercial in itself is very well done and on point, but unfortunately we're when hearing from employers using Indeed, they are already providing enough traffic. It's just overwhelmingly the wrong candidate. So Indeed needs to bolster its matching tech and a much like ZipRecruiter deliver better match candidates. I mean, companies don't need more, they need more targeted.

Chad (14m 5s):

So much like Monster, Hot Jobs and CareerBuilder. It looks like Indeed doesn't really understand what the real problem is for customers. And it could be their downfall. I remember when we looked at CareerBuilder and we looked at Monster and we thought, God, these guys are going to stay on top forever. They didn't. Is this predicting the demise of Indeed in 2021? No, it's not, but the crumbling starts when you can't understand what the real problem is when you spend money on something like this, which really defeats the whole purpose of why an employer is using you in the first place. It's not for quantity. It's for quality. It's for matching it's for the right types of individuals.

Chad (14m 47s):

And what we've seen with Indeed is they have no discipline. The Indeed of old, had discipline. They had focus, they had strategy. They were the Trojan horse strategy and they've lost all.

Joel (14m 60s):

Yeah, to me, it smells a little bit like jumping the shark. If it smells a little bit like a peak, I feel, I feel similarly about Indeed today, as I did about monster in 2006 or '07, obviously it took 10 plus years for sort of that demise to happen or that downfall to happen. But to me, this sort of reeks of desperation and also a good level of hubris, they have a new CEO, I think, with the organization. So maybe a little bit of him making his mark could be part of this, but, but yeah, I, I can't find many good things about this move. I will say also add that that Fiverr is sort of in our space as well.

Joel (15m 41s):

We'll be advertising. And to me that feels a little bit more like we want to make our claim as the top gig platform or be talked in the same breath as some of the bigger ones. So to me, the Fiverr feels more, will feel more like a Monster did in 1999. Yeah.

Chad (15m 56s):

It makes it makes sense to be able to allow individuals to know that they can have a gig. And here's where you go to have that gig, whether it's a side hustle or a full project type of a gig. So yeah. I mean, that's, it's an industry, it's a different type of strategy altogether. Indeed. Again, just feel, feels like they're off the rails. Yeah.

Joel (16m 20s):

Well, speaking of off the rails, one of the more curious, I'll say acquisitions was announced this week are our buddies at If you haven't heard the death match with Aaron Stewart or the interview that we had with him, I invite you to do that. They bought a company called Talenting. You can find more at, but I warn you that you're not going to find much because the webpage is literally one page. And the only thing you can do on it is join or log in. There's no, what we do, there's no about us. There's nothing. So you're not going to find out much. If you go to the site, it's the press release was really focused on Blockchain, which was kind of a thing a few years ago.

Joel (17m 6s):

And unless it's cryptocurrency, I don't even know what the fuck Blockchain is in relation to job seeking or resumes and why people should care. But that's a different issue, I guess. So they're really pimping this Blockchain thing. In the PR they actually have a quote from the co-founders of Talenting and they don't even name them in the press release. They just say the two co-founders said, and then like the quote, after that, according to according to LinkedIn, there's like six employees they're based out of Manhattan Beach, California, which is a pretty nice place to have a company. So at least there's that. But yeah, this was, this was a weird one. This one felt like we do Blockchain does Blockchain.

Joel (17m 48s):

They have some money let's call them and see if they'll write a check.

Chad (17m 52s):

From the press release that says candidates will be able to access, control, distribute insecure a lifetime of career information with one click while providing employers with a verifiable and trustworthy curation of services and solutions. And so

Joel (18m 10s):

Whatever the hell that means?

Chad (18m 12s):

Does regular Joe and Jane job seeker see this as a problem. Does Jane hiring companies see this as a problem in today's market? The game is adoption adoption adoption. And this seems like a solution in search of a problem. Nobody feels as real.

Joel (18m 31s):

Yeah. This is like, we expect people to be impressed with this and to buy it because we have it because it.

Chad (18m 37s):

Cause it says Blockchain.

Joel (18m 38s):

Yeah. And I mean, resume resumes are, are by default public. Like people want them to be found as opposed to my bank account or my money

Chad (18m 47s):

And your social security number is not on your resume. Right? Yeah.

Joel (18m 50s):

So like, I mean, someone really has to explain to me and please on Twitter, hashtag Chad cheese, why should anyone care about Blockchain technology when it comes to resumes?

Chad (19m 1s):

Now on the other, on the other side of the fence, vendors, if they can provide background checks and to some somebody's personal ledger and not have to perform that check over and over and over, well, then they can charge the same rates in boost margin substantially. Right? So I believe there are business cases for It's like they're taking the wrong path every time. When we look at them trying to, or wanting to buy up staffing organizations, that's much like Indeed Flex wanting to compete with staffing organizations. It makes no sense.

Chad (19m 41s):

Provide to be the platform for that entire industry and take all the money.

Joel (19m 44s):

So I saw on the calendar, we have an interview with Aaron in the near future. So hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this Blockchain and why the hell it matters. There was no disclosure of the money that transacted or the deal Talenting has no Crunchbase profile, so I'm gonna assume that they've taken no money or if it's they have, it's not a whole hell of a lot. So we'll find out more.

Chad (20m 9s):

I can say this. Aaron is one of the most charismatic founders slash you know, executive level startup guys that are out there. He's going to be able to raise some money, I think overall. And we'll definitely, we'll have a, we'll have a really good discussion with him because he enjoys having these debates, but it'll be around business model. And I'm excited to hear what he has to say.

Joel (20m 31s):

Yeah, me too. I mean, there's, there's no lack of, I don't know, vision and bombastic strategy around this company. So I, you know, there's probably something that we're just too dumb to see, and hopefully Aaron can come on the show and, and clear it up.

Chad (20m 48s):

Yeah. I don't think that's the case, but okay.

Joel (20m 51s):

Let's take a quick. Hear from Jobvite and we'll do a little buy or sell. Everyone's favorite game.

Jobvite (20m 58s):

You know, Steve, it feels like we keep getting pushed to hire more and better candidates with no more budget. Right? I wish there was a way to get better results from what we're doing. Actually, I heard in episode of Chad and Cheese about this framework from Jobvite. Oh yeah. Evolve. It's a technology agnostic framework to help TA teams get better results from their recruiting efforts. And we don't even have to be a Jobvite by customer to use it. I bet we would get better results if we orchestrated all of our efforts. You mean like a centralized process in all of our channels working together? For sure, whether it's job boards, social, or even texting with candidates. Let's do that. I'll send you the link. Cool. I'm going to finish watching this episode of Bridgerton.

Chad (21m 43s):

And don't tell me you've watched all of Bridgerton.

Joel (21m 46s):

Since I know what the fuck is Bridgeton is.

Chad (21m 49s):

Fuck. I don't know. Anyway, it's on Netflix. Go binge it.

Joel (21m 54s):

Sexy and say more, say more sexy. Speaking of games, you're a Jeopardy guy, right?

Chad (22m 0s):


Joel (22m 0s):

Obviously we lost a legend this year, but any, any opinion on Ken Jennings as a replacement?

Chad (22m 5s):

Is he going to be the replacement or is this just kind of like an interim thing?

Joel (22m 10s):

What I read is that there, there are quite a few that are going to try their hand at being Alex Trebek. And so, yeah, so they'll test a few and I guess the people vote or the ratings will vote for them and they'll pick the line on somebody, but I've been all right. He's all right. He's sorta nerdy, approachable. Well, you're ready for a little buy or sell?

Chad (22m 38s):

Let's do it.

Joel (22m 39s):

First one we're going to talk about is Good Job.

Chad (22m 42s):

Good Times

Joel (22m 42s): So the Birmingham, Alabama based, we don't say that very often on the show, raise 3 million to fuel marketing and sales efforts and major markets across the US. They're primarily in the South in Alabama, currently they're using psychology and data science to cut through the clutter to improve time, to hire and retention rates by quickly identifying the right candidates. They launched just in June of 2020. Their claim to fame is a unique technology, a new science psychology called path assessment, which is a Harvard base from the eighties. I guess the way that you can ask a few simple questions to get to the heart of a candidate and weed through to the right person, their CEO, Stephen D.

Joel (23m 32s):

Johnson said, quote, we've gotten great feedback from clients here that we've used to improve the product for a national audience, buy or sell, Good Job?

Chad (23m 46s):

I like the test market focus right out of the gate, instead of most startups, we know what the problem is. Let's go global right out of the box. So I dig that I really like it. You test market it, and then you roll from there. A good job is somewhat of a model like Alexander Mann's Hourly plan. They're leaning very heavily on this path assessment. There's there's no, there's no question. And personally, I like these types of platforms. These are the types of platforms that Indeed it, I think if they bought they'd probably fuck up, but this is kind of like the path they need to be going down, pun intended.

Chad (24m 32s):

So this is to me, I love these types of organizations. This is a buy for me.

Joel (24m 37s):

Okay. I'm going to be on the other side of the island, this one. So path assessment, great. It's not proprietary from what I can tell this, isn't like their own secret sauce that they can leverage. Stephen Johnson, Johnston, sorry, their CEO is a finance guy, like decades and finance. So to me, this feels a little bit like calling up your VC buddies, your guys with money and saying, Hey, you need a tax break? You want to invest in some money on this new venture that I've got and then writing a check to do so. I got to see this thing grow past Birmingham, Alabama, to be impressed.

Joel (25m 21s):

So for me at, for now, this is a sell. This is a sell. All right, let's go to I believe is the URL. would have been cool. But anyway, they raised a Series A 20 million, they've raised 24 million to date. Oyster helps companies through the process of hiring onboarding, and then providing contractors and full-time employees in the area of knowledge work with HR services like payroll benefits and salary management. They're already in a hundred countries. Their website says, quote, "the HR platform for remote working anywhere in the world," Oyster does not cover candidate sourcing, however, or any of the interviewing and evaluation processes, which Tech Crunch believes could be a growth area.

Joel (26m 10s):

A quick reminder. This is a very competitive industry with companies like Remote, hi Bob, which we've talked about on the show, Personio, another one, Lattice, Touring, Rippling, and many, many others. Buy or sell Oyster?

Chad (26m 24s):

So we talked about these guys on the show when they receive 4.2 million in seed last April, I wasn't a fan because their deliverable at the time seemed to be incredibly nebulous. Today, it seems more thought out and focused on providing HR with a platform to manage remote workers. But the promise of quote, "a platform for everything" end quote is too damn big. I'm usually a fan of platforms like these, but they've bitten off more than they can chew and startups without discipline, are doomed to fail.

Chad (27m 5s):

So this is a total sell for me, not to mention, I hate the name and doing a review of the site, the color scheme, the light purple and the dark green together made me want to vomit. Wow, look at you.

Joel (27m 19s):

So, I mean, overall, I don't like it because again, from a business standpoint, you have to be disciplined. It doesn't sound like they're disciplined at all. And they're in there in their color scheme, their marketing, it just shit to me. So again, we're going to be in the opposite side of the fence here. This is good. This is why we do a podcast. So if you're a, if you're a surfer, it's much better to be a bad surfer on a big wave than it is a great surfer on a shitty wave. And I think Oyster is on a really good wave right now, which is indicative of all the money and the companies that are starting up in this space.

Joel (27m 59s):

Obviously remote, how to manage people across multiple countries and all that other shit is going to be successful. I don't know if these guys particularly are the ones that are gonna make it big, but they're going to be some big winners in this space. So for me, the mere fact that this is a wave that I would want to be on, makes this company a buy for me. Let's get to Careerists previously known as Job Easy, I guess, I guess Careerist is better. I don't know, easy job. I don't. So their site says, meet the fastest path to start and grow a high paying career in tech.

Joel (28m 40s):

You get taught like you do in a college, and then you get placed in a company and they have some really great logos on the site. A whole lot of them too, like, I mean, it's a who's who of logos on Silicon Valley and elsewhere. So their guarantee is to pay, that you pay no to win no tuition until you get a job. Tuition is only owed if you ended up getting hired after completing their career accelerator, the application fee is paid up front. Anyone who follows their notes, speaks English and believes in their new skills will get the job. They promise within one to four months after successfully completing each course.

Joel (29m 23s):

Most of the courses are in quality assurance development, sort of basic baseline stuff in the trenches development kind of stuff. So by or sell Careerist, formerly known as Job Easy?

Chad (29m 40s):

I love the idea of providing credentialing and pipelining talent into organizations. It's the smartest and most disciplined model. But I do not believe the individuals should be charged rather freight should be paid by the employers themselves. So I really like, I like this. There's no question I would buy this, but I would say to the founder and anyone involved, this should be pivoted slightly so that the companies actually pay the freight. Overall though, it's a buy. Okay.

Joel (30m 12s):

So the main issue is they're double-dipping right. Like they're getting money from the student after they complete the course. And they're obviously getting paid from the company who's using them. So that's a good business model. I mean, the capitalist in me really likes that as well. But we've talked about this sort of alternative career path for people. Yeah. I'm spacing on who we talked about. I think even last week, about apprenticeships, you know, alternate career paths, and this is right up there with that. Right? So come learn development. Don't pay anything up front. I think a lot of colleges sort of mainstream colleges, we see it here in Indiana with Purdue University, where if you get an engineering degree, you know, you don't pay up front, you pay on earnings, you know, after you graduate.

Joel (30m 56s):

So the model has been there and seems to work. So these guys are just taking it to a different level of people who don't want to go to college or don't have that don't have that initiative or care to do so. So for me, I also like the fact that this was sort of born out of necessity. Apparently this guy, you know, had development friends and educated some in college and got them into jobs. So it sort of grew organically, which I really like it wasn't forced. So for me, this is a Careerist is a pretty big applause. And I like all these companies that are helping support alternative career paths, because I think that's well overdue.

Joel (31m 36s):

Well overdue.

Chad (31m 36s):

Agreed. I think this is better than getting out of school and having six figures to pay off. I totally get that, but I really believe in companies should be tapping into these types of organizations and manufacturing their own talent. I mean, it's pretty fucking simple.

Joel (31m 56s):

Yeah. I mean, if you're on this path, would you rather go to Careerist or would you rather go to Google and get certified through Google for free or for very little money? Which one would you prefer?

Chad (32m 7s):

I do both. Why not do both? Yeah. I mean, they're both available. Take the time and do both.

Joel (32m 17s):

Love it, love it. Well, we've got some companies behaving badly. Geez, we got Kroger, Google and Activision. Who do you want to start with?

Chad (32m 31s):

So Kroger boasts revenue in 2019 of $121 billion. And th this is just another Amazon moment waiting to happen because they don't want to pay the additional $4 an hour to essential workers. Amazon is trying to kill the unions right. To, to be able to stop wage rising and, and, and benefits and protections and those types of things. Kroger, in this case, they actually pulled out of two locations. They shut two locations down in Southern California because this was mandated. So what Kroger really means to say is they, they don't believe that essential workers are worth an additional $4 an hour.

Chad (33m 19s):

When in 2019, they made $121 billion.

Joel (33m 21s):

I find this whole struggle between sort of commerce and government. Interesting. And it's a story that we keep talking about, and it's, it's all about the companies holding onto power, holding onto the narrative and doing everything they, that they can to stop that even, even to some degree, Google saying, I'm going to get the hell out of Australia. If you start tack creating a tax, basically for me there. So, you know, this was an ordinance in Southern California. It applied to companies with 300 or more workers nationally, and more than 15 employees in each H story and will remain in effect for at least 120 days.

Joel (34m 6s):

So this targeted bigger companies, it wasn't forever, right? It was a fairly temporary tax, I guess, on companies, Kroger said we've done above and beyond to help our workers and, and do things for them. Obviously, does the market decide how you, you know, how you support workers or does government step in Kroger came in and said, fuck the government. We're going to get the hell out of Dodge, which is a pretty draconian decision to make, to just pull shop out of a region, which I assume is a big region, right? Long beach, California. I assume that's a pretty profitable area for Kroger. So man, this is just this whole like commerce versus government scenario. And at some point it's going to come to a head or it's just going to keep being these little fires and battles that, that play out over around the globe.

Chad (34m 53s):

Yeah. Over the last close to 50 years, companies have been used to pretty much doing whatever the fuck they want to be able to drive margin. And now that government is seeing how all of this has worked. It's only taken fucking 50 years and they're starting to apply pressure, especially when we have a pandemic. And these are actual people who are essential workers, $4 an hour compared to $121 billion. It just, again, this is horrible optics.

Joel (35m 20s):

I'm curious, I was thinking about this this the other day, and it's sort of putting you on the spot. So don't feel like you have to answer, but I'm really curious if you could choose universal health care, universal basic income, or let's call it $15 minimum, a minimum wage, which one would you pick?

Chad (35m 40s):

It's hard. I would definitely go straight to healthcare because that is for everyone, whether they have a job or not. And I think we have to take care of everyone, but I think those are all steps. So to me, it's like, which would you do first? It would definitely be universal health care.

Joel (35m 60s):

Yep. Okay. Good enough. Google or Activision.

Chad (36m 3s):

Google. So let's jump into this bitch real quick.

Joel (36m 5s):

All right. So Google will be forced to cough up roughly 3.8 million to settle allegations of pay and hiring discrimination. The U S department of labor announced on Monday at issue or allegations that the company paid women engineers less than their male counterparts and had a hiring process that disadvantaged both women and Asian applicants for software engineering roles. One point 35 million of the payout is back-pay and interest that will be paid to 2,565 women. That's a lot of women working in engineering positions, subject to a pay discrimination, end quote, an additional 1.2, 3 million is slated for both women and Asian applicants.

Chad (36m 50s):

Damn. So where is the fine? This is just leveling the playing field for the individuals who were underpaid. And it doesn't even level the playing field for the women who weren't hired. So yes, Google was caught. They were caught fucking red handed, but where is the fine? There should be a major fine that changes behavior. I mean, they should be slapped with a few billion dollars at least to be able to ensure this shit doesn't happen again. These large corporations are able to do these things. And again, $3.8 million for Google is what a few seconds.

Joel (37m 31s):

Yeah. Clearly, clearly some of these things are a math problem, whether it's Facebook dealing with, you know, facial recognition, Google dealing with pay inequities, you know, someone with a calculator says, okay, here's the risks that we're taking on. And in most cases with someone like Google, it's not that risky. And, and in addition to you agreeing with you that the fine should have been much more strenuous. I think it also sends a message to everyone else that's in Google's, you know, universe to say, Oh, keep the pay and equity. The only, the only penalty you're gonna get is a little slap on the wrist for a few million dollars. So the message should have been much louder and clearer from the U S department of labor, which I think is additionally, a little frustrating and disappointing if it had been like the California government or local government, but the fact that the U S came in with a $3.8 million fine for this is total bullshit,

Chad (38m 33s):

Static. Now moving, moving to Activision where they think diversity and inclusion and hiring individuals from diverse backgrounds is unworkable. So

Joel (38m 46s):

Yeah, it's, it's unworkable. So and its proposal. So the AFL CIO is proposing to companies in this industry to basically doing a Rooney rule strategy. So those who don't know the NFL football, if football is soccer in your country, the Rooney rule means nothing to you, but basically it's any NFL team. When they interviewed for a head coach, they have to have at least one applicant of color come in and interview for the job. So lawyers for Activision blizzard have deemed this proposal to be quote an unworkable encroachment on the company's ability to compete for new talent in a highly competitive, fast moving market.

Joel (39m 30s):

In quote, in other words, it would slow down Activision's ability to make a profit.

Chad (39m 36s):

Once again, a company whining about not being able to compete for talent and yet why aren't they manufacturing talent? We just talked about a startup that is set up to help manufacturing talent, seriously build talent pipelines, and just start to push them into your organization. I seriously cannot believe that a brand like blizzard couldn't start a high school development program and fast track kids out of high school with credit stations and pipeline them into jobs. So to me, this only demonstrates that TA is still working in a 1950s model and can't stop creating excuses for living inside the box.

Chad (40m 22s):

I mean, seriously, how damned easy would it be to start a recruiting program with kids at, you know, disadvantaged high schools throughout the United States and start the credentialing process there? How fucking hard is that? It's not guys. The problem is companies are looking for corporate welfare from the government and they're looking for them to spoonfeed them the fucking talent and give them money because they can't find it that's bullshit. They should be able to fix this and they should be able to fix it easily. And there's an organization. They, they can model themselves after it's really fucking simple. It's called the U S army.

Joel (40m 59s):

Yep. And by the way, you know, who plays video games, kids of every color, race, creed, sex leg. The fact that if you, you know, I think we talked about, I forget what, what company was, but it was like, if any company should mirror employ like the talent base of what its customers are. It shouldn't be the gaming industry. Yeah. It's just a, it's pretty, it's pretty baffling. So, well, I mentioned the Rooney rule in the NFL. So we got to talk about the Superbowl, right? So are you gonna, you're going to watch obviously, prediction, you got a score for me, what what's, what's going to happen?

Chad (41m 35s):

Yeah. I, I think Brady's gonna win and I hope he doesn't, I'm going to be cheering for the chiefs. I really hope chiefs win, but there are so many damn weapons for Brady and the defense is fucking tremendous. So it's going to be really hard with his composure, his experience. It's going to be, it's going to be really hard, but I really, I really hope Kansas city wins.

Joel (42m 1s):

Don't forget home field advantage for Tampa. No fucking, you know, to me, to me, there's obviously talk about my homes and Brady, which I think is, is warranted. But to me, the game, the game come down, it comes down to Leonard for net. If, if foreign can get over a hundred yards, say one 2140 and they, they can maintain the clock, keep my hands off the field. They're going to win the game. If four net doesn't. If, if four net comes up short, I think it's, it's a, it's a video game. It's a pinball machine. And the score is going to be 52 to 49 or something. It's going to be just crazy. And whoever has the ball last is probably going to win

Chad (42m 38s):

Hope and pray that Kansas city blows them the fuck off the field.

Joel (42m 42s):

So if I don't want to sleep in the basement, I have to root for Tampa Bay. Cause my wife is a Tom Brady fan, but I just want to see a good game. I think the chiefs are going to win. I think my homes is just ridiculous and can score at whim. By the way, we did a, we did a chat cheese poll on LinkedIn this week we asked who would be the better coworker Patrick, my homes are Tom Brady. I was pretty close. My homes were 56% to Brady's 44%. We had about a hundred votes. So a decent, a decent number of people voted. But yeah, I thought it would be a lot more a lopsided to one of the other, not so much. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll talk about the strong woman.

Joel (43m 24s):

I guess I'll leave it at

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Joel (44m 35s):

You know, strong women, shout out to at least mayor

Chad (44m 38s):

VP over at paradox. Yeah. That's awesome. SmashFly then transition into symphony and she finds herself over at paradox. So yeah.

Joel (44m 46s):

Yeah. They've had a few big hires lately.

Chad (44m 47s):

Very smart errands doing some, some damn good hiring over there. He's got Jay Z. He's got Adam godson and now, you know, he's picking up a lease good stuff.

Joel (44m 58s):

Yeah. Yeah. Big, big people. So another buddy of the show holon McHugh was pretty upset this week. I don't even know who the fuck the rally awards are. Do you know these guys?

Chad (45m 14s):

I did not. So rally RM aka recruitment marketing rally recruitment marketing sent out emails to individuals in their space pimping the rally awards, but to nominate someone or yourself, you have to pay $395. And that my friend is the early bird fee, right? That's the early bird fee Holland's response on Twitter was quote, rally RM really $395 to recognize someone doing bad-ass work in this industry. How about making that cost $0? Because those bad-ass people are your content engine.

Chad (45m 55s):

You make dollars off of them are ready. Give them some well-deserved love for free hating the game, close tweet. Amen. The thing that I don't get is why you would charge somebody to nominate the cup again, th th th the coverage should be by the sponsor overall, right. And everybody gets to participate, but this is one of those velvet rope. Hey, you know, if, if you can afford it, come on in. But what about those people who are doing great fucking work, but they're not going to pay 350 bucks or 395 bucks early bird.

Joel (46m 29s):

Yeah. And they're already a customer, right? Or like, it just seemed really strange. It seemed like a really weird double dip money grab by these guys. So Holland, you go, girl, you tell me to go, by the way I, something pissed me off this week, I got to get off my chest real quick. So we both get LinkedIn invites, connection requests, right? Like very common. And obviously a good number of those are automated. We have no idea who these people are. And the message is like, Oh, I'm selling insurance and I'd love to connect. Okay. Good deal. So I get one this week. That totally was crazy. So this was from David Cutler, who I assume is a real guy.

Joel (47m 9s):

So his request was literally this quote, hi there. This is David Cutler's virtual assistant. David asked me to connect with him and connect him with people like you in the B2B tech sector. My research indicates that you both share common goals. Would you like to connect and include David in your growing network? Thanks. Virtual assistant. Like, are you fucking kidding me? Like the automation is so bad now that we're getting virtual assistance. My research indicates get the fuck outta here. We out.

5 (47m 46s):

Thank you for listening to what's it called podcast with Chad, the cheese and the talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know. And yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about chase, not one cheddar blue nacho pepper, Jack Swiss. There's so many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any ho be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode.

5 (48m 27s):

And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese is so weird. We out.


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