Indeed Gets Penalized

When I grow up ... Super Bowl ads in our industry are back with Indeed's decision to drop $10 million plus on an ad in the Big Game. Where's the flag on jobseeker encroachment?

What's more?

- pulls of a read headscratcher of an acquisition with Talenting

- Buy or Sell with 1) GoodJob 2) Oyster and 3) Careerist

- Kroger believes Essential Employees aren't worth an added $4/ hour

- Google gets caught while DOL looks stupid

- Activision misses a diversity layup

- and Holland McCue is not to be messed with.

Enjoy this Jobvite, JobAdx, and Sovren powered episode.


Disability Solutions is your RPO partner for the disability community, from source to hire.

INTRO (2s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (22s):

Oh yeah. When I grow up, I don't want to be a yes man. Yes, sir. Yes, Ma'am. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast, boys and girls. I'm your cohost Joel space laser Cheesman.

Chad (34s):

And I'm Chad executive order Sowash.

Joel (37s):

And on this week, show Indeed jumps into the Super Bowl Ad arms race, has a scratching our heads and do not get on Holland McHughs bad side.

Sovren (50s):

You already know that Sovren makes the world's best resume CV parser, but did you know that Sovren also makes the world's best AI matching engine? Only Sovren's AI matching engine goes beyond the buzzwords. With Sovren you control how the engine thinks with every match the Sovren engine tells you what matched and exactly how each matching document was scored. And if you don't agree with the way it's scored the matches, you can simply move some sliders to tell it, to score the matches your way. No other engine on earth gives you that combination of insight and control. With Sovren, matching isn't some frustrating "black box, trust us, it's magic, one shot deal" like all the others. No, with Sovren, matching is completely understandable, completely controllable, and actually kind of fun. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.

Music (1m 49s):

Y'all trippin Tyler when it comes to hourly jobs, and this is how we do it.

Chad (1m 58s):

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

Joel (1m 59s):

Guys. If you haven't seen this video and heard their whole song, please, please go to YouTube and watch it. Fuckin epic as the kids say.

Chad (2m 15s):

It's hilarious. It's fun and nothing this cool ever happens in HR or talent acquisition.

Joel (2m 24s):

By the way, if you're, if you're looking for a special gift for that special someone, because Valentine's day is coming up, Chad.

Chad (2m 30s):

Oh yeah.

Joel (2m 31s):

Montel is on Cameo. So if you want to have a little lovely note for your spouse or girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever, have Montel drop the love for Valentine's day. Little tip from the love doctor, Cheese,

Chad (2m 45s):

You know, who also had a sweet hit, Jason Putnam from pandologic. The dude is an artist and I don't mean musical artists. Well, maybe he is. But in this case he drew his very own version of the Chad and Cheese for his bookshelves, the background for his zoom. So now I would assume if you had take a call with Jason, if you focus a little bit harder over his, one of his shoulders, you might see the Chad and Cheese and Jason Putnam version. So yeah, that's a big, applause.

Joel (3m 18s):

I only have a little issue with his dimensions because he has me about a foot shorter than you even with the captain's hat. And I'm not sure, you know what he was thinking on that one because I'm clearly a good six inches taller than you.

Chad (3m 33s):

You're you're you're standing in a hole. No big deal.

Joel (3m 37s):

I look like George Castanza with a beard.

Chad (3m 43s):

Well, I like to say we had a great time last night with our Pappy's winners. Morton over at Tradify, Matt O'Donnell from People Scout and sponsor Robert Rough from Sovren. Unfortunately, Pete Suchi from CVS, he couldn't make it, he was sick. Hopefully he doesn't have the Covid.

Joel (4m 4s):

I can confirm it's not a Covid thing, but Pete Sushi has the flu. He's going to be all right. Well, we'll try to reschedule it. Good. I kind of feel like because he was the Blanton's winner, he felt a little bit, you know, less than, less than worthy of being on a call with two Pappy's bottles. But I don't know, we'll see.

Chad (4m 24s):

A $500 bottle of bourbon. Yeah. Blazer,

Joel (4m 31s):

Chin George Costanza. Well, the nineties made another newsworthy thing this week that caught our attention. Screech from Saved By the Bell passed away this week, Screech 44.

Chad (4m 44s):

Did it say how?

Joel (4m 45s):


Chad (4m 46s):


Joel (4m 46s):

Teachable moment kids. If you're hitting that 40 plus age range, which a lot of our listeners are, make sure you go see the doctor on a regular basis. By the way, little known fact, a Screech was in a sex tape. Come on in the mid two thousands. After his career was on the skids. He tried to jumpstart. If you will, and get it back to growth mode with a, with a sex tape, which nobody remembers. So it obviously didn't work like it did for the Kardashians

Chad (5m 14s):

Saved by the dildo. Please keep that in. Cause I got nothing. Before we forget God, my brain is total mush this morning anyway. We're giving away free t-shirts kids. That's right. Sponsored by Emissary ed from Philly. One, one he guys, so John, go to or just click on free in the upper right-hand corner. You can win t-shirts we have free beer from Adzuna. We've got something to talk about there don't we?

Joel (5m 48s):

Yep. Yep. So Dennis Tupper a big fan of the show for probably when we first started was our random winner. So we'll be sending out beer to Dennis there in will be scheduling a call to do a little zoom tasting connect with him, free beer. And by the way, there's a new one. You mentioned Sovren, they've agreed to kill everyone's liver. We're giving away bourbon, whiskey, Scotch it's a Chad and Cheese pick. Remember blockbuster where each employee had their picks for movies. We're going to do a whiskey pick and we're going to send whiskey to some winner.

Joel (6m 28s):

So yeah, you just go to one place, And we're talking t-shirts beer and whiskey. I mean, until we start giving away weed, I don't know what else you can can up that. Nothing can better that.

Chad (6m 43s):

Again, this is not just a bottle of whiskey. Yes, we did give away Papi's. That was a 2000 over $2,000.

Joel (6m 50s):

Yeah. Don't get your hopes up on the monthly.

Chad (6m 53s):

But we're actually, Joel is picking a bottle. I'm picking a bottle, which means one person will get two bottles and we'll be able to sit down and again, have a little gathering, a little, a little a zoom drinking. So it should be, it should be fun.

Joel (7m 7s):

Yeah. And I'm excited. Spring is right around the corner. I'm ready for a little drinking outside on the porch. I'm excited to do some of that with some industry folks. So head on out to today.

Chad (7m 22s):

I'm going to pimp the recruitment flex with a surge in Shelly. They obviously did a dry run with you. They wanted to get it right. Or at least try to tune out all the kinks before they, they brought the big guns in.

Joel (7m 37s):

I was the beta version? Is that what you're saying that I was the test case?

Chad (7m 41s):

We talked about the shit show. AKA the last four years here in the US. Recruitment tech, mainly programmatic video interviewing systems we had a blast and we also talked about the prospect of doing a crossover like we did with the peeps at TApod.

Joel (7m 57s):


Chad (7m 58s):

Yeah. Where you could actually go on the, be a guest host at Recruitment Flex, and you and Serge could talk about tragically hip for a fucking hour. And Shelly could come down here and we could pretty much just talk about recruitment tech, get drunk.

Joel (8m 12s):

Tragically Hip, Arcade Fire, Justin Bieber. Yeah, we could, we could do it all, man. All the Matt Good.

Chad (8m 20s):

I threw out Rush and BTO. I mean, those are solid rock bands. Yes. They were in the eighties, but there are solid rock bands. And then you've got these like tragically bad bands. Listen.

Joel (8m 32s):

Oh, don't don't sit the Canadians are gonna stop listening If you dis Tragically Hip. That's like Springsteen, REM and Dylan, all in all in one band, if you're Canadian.

Chad (8m 44s):

Tragically sad.

Joel (8m 45s):

Celine Dion is more my speed. Avril Levine, Nickelback.

Chad (8m 51s):

And last but not least, March 18th kids, our friends from Sweden, that's the Sweden's TNG and ADA Digital. They're having an, an unbiased day. Just go to scroll down a tad, you'll see a little painted little painted lady there register. It's free. Some of your favorite people from TNG and age a to digital will be speaking ASA, Sarah Elan, plus my lovely wife is going to be speaking along with a Bas van de Haterd on. I know I'm getting closer to saying that right boss, but it looks like a pretty awesome event. If you are here in the U S or you're over in Europe, it's time to go global people.

Chad (9m 33s):

We should be used to this by now. So go check it out again.

Joel (9m 38s):

Now the painted woman. Isn't a tin guy as it should be like a wig.

Chad (9m 42s):

Yeah, it should be, it really should be. Elan, you need to get on that. No, actually Charlotte, you should be on that.

Joel (9m 48s):

Charlotte or paint up Elan. She'd be, she looked good in some, some neon pink and some Abba blue. I don't know what that means. Let's go to the new.

Chad (9m 59s):


Joel (9m 59s):

Chad, you remember 1999, don't you. And the first Superbowl ad, what you remember it very well. And you've, I think you've told the history lesson pretty, pretty well in the past, but Indeed has decided they're going to get into the arms race. So they've announced the first half of the big game, they're doing a 30 second ad reportedly at a cost of roughly $5.6 million. They'll be utilizing the hashtag #nowhiring in coordination with the ad, which means every job board and staffing agency in the world is going to be trolling. The hashtag #nowhiring up until the game. Going for the warm and fuzzy. Actually it's a 60 second spot, forgive me.

Joel (10m 41s):

So they're gonna drop roughly 10 plus million on this thing.

Chad (10m 43s):

Have you seen it?

Joel (10m 45s):

I have not seen it. It's yeah. It's warm and fuzzy, right? Yeah.

Chad (10m 49s):

I've seen it. It depicts everyday people overall. It's the big theme behind it is it's called "the rising," but the song rise up is behind, it's playing in the music bed. It's very well done. It tugs at the heartstrings and the product is woven into the story itself. This is really a Superflex against the rest of the industry. Hindsight being 2020. Why, why do this?

Joel (11m 14s):

So I wrote a post on this over at poach and historically speaking, and you and I are old enough to have sort of this context to the issue. You know, there was a day in 99 when all this happened, you know, before YouTube, before social media, before really Google was a thing where the mindset was really, you have to be Coke or Pepsi, or you're just going to be feeding on the crumbs of whatever industry that you, that you're in and a way to become number one or two was well drop a bunch of money on the Super Bowl. And Monster had this vision of being sort of this monolithic brand that was every job was posted there, right? And they could, they could increase prices accordingly and be the, you know, be the 800 pound gorilla, hot jobs advertised sort of for a different reason.

Joel (11m 60s):

Now they definitely shot themselves up into the top echelon of job sites, but then they sold off to Yahoo a couple of years later. So I think they sort of achieve what they wanted to do. Whereas Monster had a little bit of a longer horizon. And for the, you know, for the next up until about 2008 or '09, I'd say we talked about CareerBuilder and monster ads on the Super Bowl almost every year. And it was part of that same sort of mentality. Well, the 2008 happened, 2009. There've been very few Superbowl ads since the great recession, probably for good reason, the world has changed. There's a lot more fragmentation. There's Google, there's Facebook, there's LinkedIn. So it's really hard to sort of justify an investment like that because it's not just the, the ad itself.

Joel (12m 45s):

It's the making of the ad. It's the followup stuff. It's the branding and things you do after that. So I feel like whereas 1999 was more of a, Hey, we want to make a big splash to be number one today. It's more like we want to make a big splash to keep hold of number one for as long as we possibly can, because we kind of feel like the ice is melting under our feet. And we want to get a life raft if we can possibly do it. So to me, it's much more of like a desperation or a clinging to power than it is a new kid on the block. And we want to be the big swinging Dick. Your thoughts.

Chad (13m 21s):

One thing this does is it provides a, it's a job seeker specific commercial, right? The call to action, everything that's happening around it around it is for job seekers. Indeed has bigger problems than traffic. So this commercial in itself is very well done and on point, but unfortunately we're when hearing from employers using Indeed, they are already providing enough traffic. It's just overwhelmingly the wrong candidate. So Indeed needs to bolster its matching tech and a much like ZipRecruiter deliver better match candidates. I mean, companies don't need more, they need more targeted.

Chad (14m 5s):

So much like Monster, Hot Jobs and CareerBuilder. It looks like Indeed doesn't really understand what the real problem is for customers. And it could be their downfall. I remember when we looked at CareerBuilder and we looked at Monster and we thought, God, these guys are going to stay on top forever. They didn't. Is this predicting the demise of Indeed in 2021? No, it's not, but the crumbling starts when you can't understand what the real problem is when you spend money on something like this, which really defeats the whole purpose of why an employer is using you in the first place. It's not for quantity. It's for quality. It's for matching it's for the right types of individuals.

Chad (14m 47s):

And what we've seen with Indeed is they have no discipline. The Indeed of old, had discipline. They had focus, they had strategy. They were the Trojan horse strategy and they've lost all.

Joel (14m 60s):

Yeah, to me, it smells a little bit like jumping the shark. If it smells a little bit like a peak, I feel, I feel similarly about Indeed today, as I did about monster in 2006 or '07, obviously it took 10 plus years for sort of that demise to happen or that downfall to happen. But to me, this sort of reeks of desperation and also a good level of hubris, they have a new CEO, I think, with the organization. So maybe a little bit of him making his mark could be part of this, but, but yeah, I, I can't find many good things about this move. I will say also add that that Fiverr is sort of in our space as well.

Joel (15m 41s):

We'll be advertising. And to me that feels a little bit more like we want to make our claim as the top gig platform or be talked in the same breath as some of the bigger ones. So to me, the Fiverr feels more, will feel more like a Monster did in 1999. Yeah.

Chad (15m 56s):

It makes it makes sense to be able to allow individuals to know that they can have a gig. And here's where you go to have that gig, whether it's a side hustle or a full project type of a gig. So yeah. I mean, that's, it's an industry, it's a different type of strategy altogether. Indeed. Again, just feel, feels like they're off the rails. Yeah.

Joel (16m 20s):

Well, speaking of off the rails, one of the more curious, I'll say acquisitions was announced this week are our buddies at If you haven't heard the death match with Aaron Stewart or the interview that we had with him, I invite you to do that. They bought a company called Talenting. You can find more at, but I warn you that you're not going to find much because the webpage is literally one page. And the only thing you can do on it is join or log in. There's no, what we do, there's no about us. There's nothing. So you're not going to find out much. If you go to the site, it's the press release was really focused on Blockchain, which was kind of a thing a few years ago.

Joel (17m 6s):

And unless it's cryptocurrency, I don't even know what the fuck Blockchain is in relation to job seeking or resumes and why people should care. But that's a different issue, I guess. So they're really pimping this Blockchain thing. In the PR they actually have a quote from the co-founders of Talenting and they don't even name them in the press release. They just say the two co-founders said, and then like the quote, after that, according to according to LinkedIn, there's like six employees they're based out of Manhattan Beach, California, which is a pretty nice place to have a company. So at least there's that. But yeah, this was, this was a weird one. This one felt like we do Blockchain does Blockchain.

Joel (17m 48s):

They have some money let's call them and see if they'll write a check.

Chad (17m 52s):

From the press release that says candidates will be able to access, control, distribute insecure a lifetime of career information with one click while providing employers with a verifiable and trustworthy curation of services and solutions. And so

Joel (18m 10s):

Whatever the hell that means?

Chad (18m 12s):

Does regular Joe and Jane job seeker see this as a problem. Does Jane hiring companies see this as a problem in today's market? The game is adoption adoption adoption. And this seems like a solution in search of a problem. Nobody feels as real.

Joel (18m 31s):

Yeah. This is like, we expect people to be impressed with this and to buy it because we have it because it.

Chad (18m 37s):

Cause it says Blockchain.

Joel (18m 38s):

Yeah. And I mean, resume resumes are, are by default public. Like people want them to be found as opposed to my bank account or my money

Chad (18m 47s):

And your social security number is not on your resume. Right? Yeah.

Joel (18m 50s):

So like, I mean, someone really has to explain to me and please on Twitter, hashtag Chad cheese, why should anyone care about Blockchain technology when it comes to resumes?

Chad (19m 1s):

Now on the other, on the other side of the fence, vendors, if they can provide background checks and to some somebody's personal ledger and not have to perform that check over and over and over, well, then they can charge the same rates in boost margin substantially. Right? So I believe there are business cases for It's like they're taking the wrong path every time. When we look at them trying to, or wanting to buy up staffing organizations, that's much like Indeed Flex wanting to compete with staffing organizations. It makes no sense.

Chad (19m 41s):

Provide to be the platform for that entire industry and take all the money.

Joel (19m 44s):

So I saw on the calendar, we have an interview with Aaron in the near future. So hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this Blockchain and why the hell it matters. There was no disclosure of the money that transacted or the deal Talenting has no Crunchbase profile, so I'm gonna assume that they've taken no money or if it's they have, it's not a whole hell of a lot. So we'll find out more.

Chad (20m 9s):

I can say this. Aaron is one of the most charismatic founders slash you know, executive level startup guys that are out there. He's going to be able to raise some money, I think overall. And we'll definitely, we'll have a, we'll have a really good discussion with him because he enjoys having these debates, but it'll be around business model. And I'm excited to hear what he has to say.

Joel (20m 31s):

Yeah, me too. I mean, there's, there's no lack of, I don't know, vision and bombastic strategy around this company. So I, you know, there's probably something that we're just too dumb to see, and hopefully Aaron can come on the show and, and clear it up.

Chad (20m 48s):

Yeah. I don't think that's the case, but okay.

Joel (20m 51s):

Let's take a quick. Hear from Jobvite and we'll do a little buy or sell. Everyone's favorite game.

Jobvite (20m 58s):

You know, Steve, it feels like we keep getting pushed to hire more and better candidates with no more budget. Right? I wish there was a way to get better results from what we're doing. Actually, I heard in episode of Chad and Cheese about this framework from Jobvite. Oh yeah. Evolve. It's a technology agnostic framework to help TA teams get better results from their recruiting efforts. And we don't even have to be a Jobvite by customer to use it. I bet we would get better results if we orchestrated all of our efforts. You mean like a centralized process in all of our channels working together? For sure, whether it's job boards, social, or even texting with candidates. Let's do that. I'll send you the link. Cool. I'm going to finish watching this episode of Bridgerton.

Chad (21m 43s):

And don't tell me you've watched all of Bridgerton.

Joel (21m 46s):

Since I know what the fuck is Bridgeton is.

Chad (21m 49s):

Fuck. I don't know. Anyway, it's on Netflix. Go binge it.

Joel (21m 54s):

Sexy and say more, say more sexy. Speaking of games, you're a Jeopardy guy, right?

Chad (22m 0s):


Joel (22m 0s):

Obviously we lost a legend this year, but any, any opinion on Ken Jennings as a replacement?

Chad (22m 5s):

Is he going to be the replacement or is this just kind of like an interim thing?

Joel (22m 10s):

What I read is that there, there are quite a few that are going to try their hand at being Alex Trebek. And so, yeah, so they'll test a few and I guess the people vote or the ratings will vote for them and they'll pick the line on somebody, but I've been all right. He's all right. He's sorta nerdy, approachable. Well, you're ready for a little buy or sell?

Chad (22m 38s):

Let's do it.

Joel (22m 39s):

First one we're going to talk about is Good Job.

Chad (22m 42s):

Good Times

Joel (22m 42s): So the Birmingham, Alabama based, we don't say that very often on the show, raise 3 million to fuel marketing and sales efforts and major markets across the US. They're primarily in the South in Alabama, currently they're using psychology and data science to cut through the clutter to improve time, to hire and retention rates by quickly identifying the right candidates. They launched just in June of 2020. Their claim to fame is a unique technology, a new science psychology called path assessment, which is a Harvard base from the eighties. I guess the way that you can ask a few simple questions to get to the heart of a candidate and weed through to the right person, their CEO, Stephen D.

Joel (23m 32s):

Johnson said, quote, we've gotten great feedback from clients here that we've used to improve the product for a national audience, buy or sell, Good Job?

Chad (23m 46s):

I like the test market focus right out of the gate, instead of most startups, we know what the problem is. Let's go global right out of the box. So I dig that I really like it. You test market it, and then you roll from there. A good job is somewhat of a model like Alexander Mann's Hourly plan. They're leaning very heavily on this path assessment. There's there's no, there's no question. And personally, I like these types of platforms. These are the types of platforms that Indeed it, I think if they bought they'd probably fuck up, but this is kind of like the path they need to be going down, pun intended.

Chad (24m 32s):

So this is to me, I love these types of organizations. This is a buy for me.

Joel (24m 37s):

Okay. I'm going to be on the other side of the island, this one. So path assessment, great. It's not proprietary from what I can tell this, isn't like their own secret sauce that they can leverage. Stephen Johnson, Johnston, sorry, their CEO is a finance guy, like decades and finance. So to me, this feels a little bit like calling up your VC buddies, your guys with money and saying, Hey, you need a tax break? You want to invest in some money on this new venture that I've got and then writing a check to do so. I got to see this thing grow past Birmingham, Alabama, to be impressed.

Joel (25m 21s):

So for me at, for now, this is a sell. This is a sell. All right, let's go to I believe is the URL. would have been cool. But anyway, they raised a Series A 20 million, they've raised 24 million to date. Oyster helps companies through the process of hiring onboarding, and then providing contractors and full-time employees in the area of knowledge work with HR services like payroll benefits and salary management. They're already in a hundred countries. Their website says, quote, "the HR platform for remote working anywhere in the world," Oyster does not cover candidate sourcing, however, or any of the interviewing and evaluation processes, which Tech Crunch believes could be a growth area.