While the likes of Facebook, Amazon, Google and Apple are on trial for anticompetitive behavior, maybe Indeed should be thrown in the mix too.
Indeed rumors of cutting programmatic competition off at the knees
Naughty-naughty, much like Civvl, "the Uber of eviction teams." Classy.
Outmatch and Launchpad provide hope
and the Great People Migration where NYC experiences a 23% drop
Hello suburban home appreciation!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
A citric survey says two thirds of employees believe that by 2035 workers with microchips and planted in their bodies will have an unfair advantage in the labor market. So yeah, the welcoming of the end of days is now here. This is the Chad and Cheese podcast, everybody. I'm your cohost "Robo" Joel.
And I'm Chad "timeout" Sowash.
And this week we have migrating people, Patagonia and pushups, Oh, and Indeed rumors.
We'll be right back.
Sovren (1m 23s):
Sovren Parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry, the more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting sovren.com, that's SOVREN.com. We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.
Chad (1m 23s):
Did you watch the Emmys?
Joel (1m 27s):
I watched some of it. I want to say football may have interrupt in may, although I did see quite a few of the Schitt's Creek monopoly of awards in the first hour or so.
Chad (1m 40s):
Joel (1m 40s):
I assume that's what you want to talk about.
Chad (1m 44s):
That and the experience overall, I mean seriously, who needs to get all those people into one room when you could have an experience like they had? I mean, Jimmy Kimmel, some of his shit fell flat, but it would have fell flat anyway. But it was really cool, they were going back and forth to all these different parties that they were having. And it just, it seemed more natural, more organic and it was more fun. I liked it, but yeah, Schitt's Creek won best comedy series, supporting actress, supporting actor, writing lead actress, lead actor, directing.
Chad (2m 19s):
If you haven't seen Schitt's Creek go to Netflix right now. Add it right now, very uncomfortable, especially at first, but Oh my God, it's amazing!
Joel (2m 28s):
I do recall seeing, well, you know, the, the Zoomification, I guess, of the nominees and how they're shown on the screen was fun. I seem to remember one that was topless sort of walking around the house. One was in their pajamas. So there's a certain level level of artistic freedom. I guess, that these folks can takem that they can't take in a ballroom, you know, with their Prada or whatever, whatever name, brand label you want to have when you're dressed up and looking at your best.
Chad (2m 58s):
Yeah, we'll think of, think of the green, the green kind of like footprint that you're, you're leaving instead of carbon footprint that you would be, right? All the people that had to fly in more traffic, all this, it just it's overall, it was more fun experience I thought. And who the fuck needs a red carpet anyway? I mean, come on.
Joel (3m 21s):
Well, entertainment television for sure does cause they need a red carpet and interviews and people looking their best.
Chad (3m 27s):
Joel (3m 27s):
And I know for one, my wife really enjoys watching that part of the program. So I don't think the Zoomafication of Emmy's or any Oscar award shows is going to be a normal thing once we get out of this
Chad (3m 40s):
Joel (3m 40s):
Chad (3m 43s):
Okay. My first Shout Out goes to our Aussie friend, Andrea Kirby. She shared a meme that said American needs guns to defend themselves. And then the actual meme showed a Melbourne Australian man who fought off a carjacker with a Nescafe blend 43 jars. I'm sorry. I'm assuming that 43 ounce was a 43 ounce bottle. I don't know, but Lauren Sharp, piped in.
Chad (4m 14s):
She piled on it was fucking crazy Aussies. I, I love them.
Joel (4m 17s):
Aussies are fun. Sort of a somber Shout Out RBG Supreme court justice Ginsburg. Yes. Everyone knows passed away this week. Fortunately, Congress was able to, you know, honor her dying wish and not vote for a new Supreme Court Justice until the election is over anyway.
Chad (4m 36s):
Not going into that one. Fuck.
Joel (4m 36s):
Yeah, insensitivity, but obviously Justice Ginsburg women can have mortgages and bank accounts and all kinds of stuff because of some of the initiatives that she championed. So we would, we would be amiss to not give RBG a Shout Out on the show.
Chad (4m 58s):
And a lot of love. I tell you, having two daughters, obviously you having a daughter too. I mean, we have strong wives that they can look up to, but she is also somebody just from a historic standpoint that you know, our daughters can look up to and that those are the things that mean a lot to me.
Joel (5m 19s):
Yeah. And prove that you can get stuff done without yelling and beating your chest and clubbing things like she did it with class grace and intelligence. And that was cool.
Chad (5m 30s):
Yeah, her brain. She out-brained mother fuckers. Somebody who probably outbrain's us all, Jodi Brandstetter, she's the author of the book Hire by Design. She's not far from us. She's over in Loveland, Ohio. She loves the podcast and Kipp Birtwistle, I bet he got beat up at school with that name director of TA at Caliber Collision, he is such a big fan of the show, he has most of his TA managers listening and I'm, I'm asking most?
Chad (6m 3s):
Mandatory listening Kipp, a hundred percent. Come on, man.
Joel (6m 7s):
And what was that last name again?
Chad (6m 8s):
Joel (6m 8s):
Kerfluffle okay. Alright.
Chad (6m 12s):
Joel (6m 12s):
Only Cheeseman is worse, everybody only Cheeseman is worse. Shout Out to "immunity discrimination." This is something that I just heard this week, but apparently there's a story around that. Employers will start practicing immunity discrimination, meaning if you don't have the vaccine, if you're not immune to COVID, you're gonna have a hard time in the workplace. So it's first time I've heard it.
Joel (6m 43s):
It won't be the last Shout Out to quote "immunity discrimination."
Chad (6m 47s):
It's it's another one of those topics that people are using to Gaslight every fucking thing else that's out there. It's like we have this overabundance of bullshit topics that are just coming out, just all over the place. And this is one of those.
Joel (7m 0s):
Dammit. We're going to talk about it.
Chad (7m 2s):
Yeah. Shout Out to Jason Banks, he knows we love lists. So he created his own list on LinkedIn with a Thursday top four podcast for staffing recruiting, talent and sales. And obviously he listed Chad and Cheese.
Joel (7m 19s):
Of course, of course. Shout Out to Jennifer Ravalli. Jennifer is now VP of marketing at PandoLogic, a sponsor of the show and was formerly at ICMs. We're talking 15 years experience PandoLogic is better off and, and poaching is always fun, so I'm not sure that happened, but Hey, a nice win for, for our folks at Pando and Jennifer. Good luck that, that
Chad (7m 44s):
It was a big win. A big Shout Out to David Falwell absolutely love the podcast and always hears great reviews. I like reviews. So that being said, do what David just talked about, go give us a review about, on the podcast, on whatever podcast platform you use. And give us some real feedback none of that mamby, pamby, jumbo, bullshit that you see on other podcasts "Oh, I love it so much." Yeah. Give us real feedback. If we don't get a five star review, that's fine.
Chad (8m 15s):
We're okay with that. That just means that we're ruffling feathers and that's,
Joel (8m 20s):
It is what it is. A Shout Out to two guys at paradox that agreed to sit down with us and talk chat bots, AI football. What else do we talk about? All kinds of good stuff. Josh Zywien, Adam Godson. If you haven't listened to the interview with Paradox, go check that out in our archives. It's well worth your while. Yeah.
Chad (8m 41s):
I still think the chat bot versus conversational AI narrative is a bunch of marketing bullshit.
Joel (8m 47s):
It's all marketing bullshit Chad. Shout Out to the Recruitment Flex podcast, duo out of Canada, Serge Boudreau and Shelley Billinghurst. I sat down with him this week to talk about poach, podcasting, Canada, all kinds of good stuff. So Shout Out to them. Shout Out to loxo.co company that I've never heard of. Tim Sackett loves them apparently cause he's endorsing the company on the homepage
Chad (9m 17s):
Means nothing, means nothing.
Joel (9m 17s):
But anyway, if you, if you scroll down, if you scroll down to their navigation, the dropdown menu for their solutions, they have actually trademarked everything from like AI to chat bots, to sourcing to everything. So wow. Who knew that you could trademark AI? Loxo did and suck it everybody else so you gotta pay them, pay them the fee if you want to use the AI, I'm doing this very sarcastically.
Chad (8m 46s):
I call bullshit.
Joel (9m 48s):
And last but not least for me, I guess in Shout Outs, Cleveland Indians, everybody, come on are you a baseball fan? This week, three run homer, a walk off home run in the 10th inning against the White Sox to put the Indians into the playoffs, starting in October, I can't be more excited. You know, about anything than that. So Cleveland Indians
Chad (10m 12s):
Is Chief Wahoo now officially off all the official garb?
Joel (10m 16s):
He is off all the officially licensed products. You can certainly still buy the Chief online, probably anywhere, certainly stores and vendors around the stadium. I'm sure still have him. Many people haven't seen the 1950s or so version of Chief Wahoo, which is way more ...
Chad (10m 36s):
Joel (10m 38s):
... disgusting. So I think even the 1950s, Chief Wahoo is available. So yeah, you could still get him, but not, not officially licensed. So hats off to the organization for doing that. My guess is they won't be the Indians for much longer. My vote is for the Spiders, which was their original name back in 1903 or something,
Chad (10m 60s):
Flash back. Events.
Joel (10m 60s):
Chad (11m 3s):
Alright, so I've got a couple to throw out here. I've got the HR hackathon, the HR tech investor panel, which I'm going to be leading moderating or whatever the hell you want to call it on October 7th at 11:00 AM. Eastern time panelists on this one, you're going to love it. Got Mike Willcheck. Remember that guy, Chief Strategy Officer over at ISIMs, Peter Baylew Hungary's most important HR tech angel and startup investor.
Joel (11m 34s):
Is that the country Hungary?
Chad (11m 34s):
Yes. I wonder if he gave that to himself and Miguel Encarnacion the Managing Partner at Unifier Ventures. So we'll be doing that on October 7th. Look for the registration link on the socials. And then last but not least for me, October 27th, 2:00 PM kids, we have a friendly disclosure part, two topic on this one is "Remote Workers Deserve Less."
Chad (12m 5s):
This is where Jim Stroud and myself will be arguing the topic pretty much the Facebook topic and other companies are doing it now where they're docking employees pay and calling it a cost of living adjustment, when they move out of Silicon Valley, for example. We wrapped up the recording for friendly disclosure part one this week, where we talked about diversity quotas or what I like to call diversity goals. Jim and I did some arguing. He argued against diversity goals. I argued for them.
Chad (12m 36s):
We disagreed, but at the end of the day, kids, walked away, friends.
Joel (12m 40s):
Who came out the bloodier of the two in that one?
Chad (12m 42s):
You have to watch it because there was some blood and there was some shade that was thrown big time. The recording is available right now. Like I said, just hop on my socials, check it out again. I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, we had at this point, like close to 200 attendees, walked out with a 4.2 out of five star rating, which I think is good. Because again, we ruffled some feathers and people didn't agree with us, which is awesome.
Chad (13m 13s):
But check us out, go to again, my socials on Twitter, just search for Chad. So I'm the only one there or LinkedIn and you'll find it.
Joel (13m 23s):
So you're doing another one. Will this be an ongoing series of like Jim versus Chad? Is this something we should expect going into 2021 or what's going on?
Chad (13m 32s):
Well, I see this almost like as a TV production. That was the pilot and Circa ordered three. Okay. So, so we, we have three that are actually set up and Circa ordered three of those. They got some, some great feedback from it awesome interaction, and a lot of people said that they couldn't wait for round two. So you never know. I mean, again, it's like a TV series if they keep ordering or if somebody else wants to outbid and order them then awesome let's do it.
Joel (14m 4s):
Who doesn't love a good fight, I say? Topics.
Chad (14m 7s):
Okay. So got some rumors.
Joel (14m 7s):
got some new rumors?
Chad (14m 10s):
Got some rumors. So I've got to say first and foremost, I have reached out to a number of sources to confirm this rumor or this bevy of rumors. I have a few that have confirmed, but not all, so right now. I still want to keep this labeled as a rumor, but it's not unlike Indeed. So, so here it is in the UK, we're hearing that Indeed is rolling out restrictions for any company using one click apply. Those restrictions are that you must use Indeed IQ for distribution, thus cutting off programmatic competitor platforms.
Chad (14m 48s):
Got a quote from one of my sources and this was almost every single one of my sources said this. Said, "I wouldn't be at all surprised if they, (Indeed) did this. This is the easiest way for Indeed to show that Indeed IQ performs better than other programmatic platforms. Indeed is already offering it, Indeed IQ for free." And this is taking it to another level. I see this damaging for Indeed's reputation, quite frankly, as it might be a little too heavy handed.
Chad (15m 23s):
And my question, you know, when has Indeed ever given a single fuck about looking heavy handed?
Joel (15m 31s):
It's the Indeed way. What do you mean give a shit?
Chad (15m 35s):
It's a thing, you know, it's a thing. So adding to the rumor also Indeed will shut down distribution for jobs going to Glass Door, unless you're using Indeed IQ. Again, you know, we're, we're only hearing rumblings of this in the UK, but it's like, it just keeps piling on.
Joel (15m 53s):
Yeah. If you can't beat them, choke them to death, I guess. So this one came in to me and we thought we'd tag it onto the, the rumor segment here of Undeed. So this is a quote from a source that I have who, who asked to remain nameless. Indeed as is screwing people who paid for job postings on Glass Door. If they had an annual contract on Glass Door, they are not allowing customers to use that money on Indeed, so there is no way to use the remaining contract for the postings. There is no way to enter jobs on Glass Door so Indeed isn't fulfilling their agreement.
Joel (16m 29s):
Basically, if you're hoping that just cause they're, you know, sister companies that they're going to let you use that budget on Indeed stuff. Well, you should probably think again, you're going to have to write another check It sounds like again, rumors, everybody rumors. We're happy to have Indeed on the show whenever you want to come clarify, dispute a whatever they want. Indeed, come on, bring it.
Chad (16m 55s):
So I had a couple of people actually, again, texting back and forth, ask when do we think they'll start keeping that 15% commission and turn into an ad agency. And we've talked about this, in iterations of the show and it's, I don't see how it's ever off the table, because if you think Monster did it, Career Builder did it. And all the big names do this when they feel they have enough power because they are the number one in the industry.
Joel (17m 26s):
Yeah. And what about when they start rolling that into some staffing hybrid thingy? I mean it's you know, it's smart. I guess if you can do it, people love these kind of monopolies, Google sort of given them the red light to fuck everyone over cause they have Google for Jobs, I guess.
Chad (17m 45s):
Say yeah, well that's on the job side. So yeah again, rumors, a lot of stuff we're hearing again, the Indeeds they're flirting with RPO. I mean, there's just so much, none of this would surprise anyone. And if Indeed IQ does start clamping down on distribution for one click and then also a four for Glass Door, I mean, those, those are two positions they easily hold power on. They could do that in a heartbeat.
Joel (18m 16s):
Yup, love those moats everybody. By the way, if any listeners out there can confirm or tell us a little bit more about what's going on, there would certainly love to know if, if you can renew Glassdoor contracts or if those are totally going to be spun into just Indeed contracts going into next year. So yeah, if you know anything, folks hit us up at chadcheese.com today.
Chad (18m 37s):
So Outmatch in Launchpad, really heard of them both, but they just don't seem like big enough fish to have acquisitions, but they did.
Joel (18m 47s):
I agree Outmatch was a little odd and you know, it doesn't look like, I can't see any evidence that launchpad has garnered any kind of real investment money. So this thing may have been bootstrapped, Seed funded. So the price may have been really reasonable or, you know, maybe they got creative around paying for this, but Outmatch for the most part has gotten roughly 8 million in funding, which is nothing super to talk about or write home about. But they have some really great people on staff.
Joel (19m 20s):
I'm looking at their about page Jason Farrar, who you probably know was at Career Builder forever he's their chief marketing officer. They acquired Wepow a couple years ago, which was a sort of up and coming fairly well known company as well. So they made about five acquisitions in their existence so this is sort of par for the course. To me, this looked like a whole, the whole sort of data plus automation play that we've been seeing, kind of come at the forefront of our industry. People trying to, you know, how do we take data? How do we automate recruiting? They have a video interviewing platform. One of the comments from the press release was that Outmatch is now launching a quote new talent selection platform that ties candidate screening assessments, video interviews, and AI driven, predictive analytics into a single integrated automated workflow platform.
Joel (20m 1s):
Stop me if you've heard this one before. So maybe it's time to start thinking about Outmatch as a competitor to, you know, job bite ISIMs and some of the others.
Chad (20m 15s):
Yeah. So first off this is, this is more of like a, a Rubicon technology, private equity play. I think more than anything to try to take a look at the market and obviously look at a competitor that's across the pond. What do you need to grow? Especially when you're talking about big enterprise organizations, you need to have the ability to go across the pond. And if you can get a small competitor, because if you look at what these guys both do, it's pretty much the same thing.
Chad (20m 48s):
Yeah. There's going to be some nuances here and there, but I just don't see this. I don't see this as an applicant tracking system first and foremost, I see it as more of a candidate, a very, very deep candidate experience layer. But overall, I mean, it seems like they are two small fish in a very large ocean who want to serve their clients better on both sides of the pond. And they have private equity funding. Knowing that, and in least betting against her betting for this market to turn.
Chad (21m 22s):
And when it does, this is going to be the type of technology that companies are gonna need. Right?
Joel (21m 25s):
Yeah. Yeah. My bet is there, might've been some sort of a, you know, a little bit of parachuting by Launchpad, obviously the economy has done what it's done. Yeah. That might've been a pretty easy call to make, to say, Hey, there's some synergies here. Why don't we get some employment contracts, write us a check and like let's join forces and take on Europe and North America.
Jobvite (21m 48s):
Jobvite the leading end to end talent acquisition suite. Named a leader in ATS, recruitment marketing, CRM, and onboarding on G2. Kim B says "Jobvite is a user friendly passionate enterprise team that takes care of you, jolly good." Jeffrey R says, "Candidates are constantly telling us we get it right compared to other orgs. Love that." Results driven by AI. Connections built by humans. Jobvite. Learn how you can evolve your TA function at jobvite.com.
Joel (22m 21s):
Jolly good, Cherrio Jobvite.
Chad (22m 21s):
Joel (22m 21s):
Adam Gordon's going to have a shit fit over that. That's a good one though. More British advertising on North America. I love it! So one company that's taking on throwing people out on their asses. Yeah. That got you all got all excited this week.
Chad (22m 41s):
Who wants a fast growing making money gig? Who wants that? Who wants to make money? Who wants a gig? Everybody does. Right? But the gig economy in this point is launching it's Uber for evicting people. This has to be the worst story, right?
Joel (22m 57s):
This is an Onion Story right? This is the Onion.
Chad (23m 7s):
When I read it, I thought there's no way in hell this thing could be true. But here's some of the services that you could provide, you could serve papers. You could assist with standby extraction, which means throwing people out of their homes on their asses. You could assist in foreclosure clean outs. And there's actually a button on the site that says be hired as an eviction crew.
Joel (23m 31s):
Chad (23m 31s):
So Helen Dunkin, a Chicago based paralegal who also participates in housing activism saw a Craigslist post for Civvl that's C I V V L.
Joel (23m 47s):
And it's anything, but by the way.
Chad (23m 51s):
Yeah, it's definitely not civil, while searching for jobs, the ad alarmed her. Here's a quote: "It's fucked up that there will be struggling working class people who will be drawn to gigs like furniture hauling or process serving for a company like Civvl. Evicting fellow working class, people from their homes. So they themselves can make rent." And apparently the Craigslist ad was posted across the country.
Chad (24m 21s):
They say there is plenty of work due to the dismal economy. Unemployment is at a record high and many cannot or simply are not paying their rent and mortgages. We are being contracted by frustrated property owners and banks to secure foreclosed, residential properties. This is fucking horrible.
Joel (24m 47s):
It's horrible but it's also just the reality of where we, where we are right now. Right? Like if it wasn't Civvl workers, which sounds horrible, but it wasn't these cats, it would be someone else throwing people out of their house, serving papers, et cetera. So
Chad (25m 4s):
Whoever that is, do it, do it.
Joel (25m 4s):
It's total shit. Yeah. I agree. And it's, it's super scammy feeling too. It's sort of like, it feels almost, it feels like they should, like, if they're saying, Hey, pay us a hundred bucks to learn how to make money by evicting your neighbors. That almost feels like where this should be some sort of a scam that's going on because you gotta think there are people that are employed to serve papers and take shit out of houses, rental properties, et cetera.
Joel (25m 35s):
But anyway, yeah, the gig economy was bound to happen everywhere. And this is certainly one that it unfortunately has. Also note from the story that the website featured a quote that was attributed to the New York Times. Did you see this?
Chad (25m 46s):
Joel (25m 46s):
The quote was "too many people stopped paying rent and mortgages thinking they would not be evicted" end quote. So apparently the journalist Googled that quote, which did not reveal it appearing anywhere, let alone associated to the New York Times. So, they're conveniently sort of making up shit to build reputation around their business when there really isn't any. And obviously the nationwide ad on Craigslist doesn't really smell all that good either.
Chad (26m 17s):
And they're owned by a company called on-call, which is O N Q A L L. They're the developer behind other believable gig gaps like Lawn Fixer, Clean Quick and Move Quick. So this is something that they do and it looks like just opportunists, but overall man, while Jeff Bezos is making billions more dollars, we're pitting the working class against each other by kicking each other out of our fucking homes.
Chad (26m 50s):
This is dispicable.
Joel (26m 51s):
We'll just wait until they launch buyacruiseship.com and emptythatmovietheater.com coming soon to the Uber economy near you. That's actually true did you hear Carnival's selling off cruise ships.
Chad (27m 3s):
I would never get on a cruise ship, ever.
Joel (27m 7s):
Would you buy one for you and your posse?
Chad (27m 11s):
Joel (27m 11s):
We can do, we can do the podcast live from a Carnival cruise ship. Sponsored by Soveren. If you can't laugh, you'd cry. What's on the next docket for news stories?
Chad (27m 28s):
People are being evicted and they're obviously moving out, but where are they going? You shared the 2020's migration trends, smaller cities gain ground.
Joel (27m 41s):
LinkedIn it's not just for automated spam, everybody. They actually produce some images and, and data. So they, they had, I guess, an infographic this week, 2020s migration trends, smaller cities gain ground. So their, their top five sort of biggest gain cities that are in the middle there, in terms of size. You got Jacksonville, you got Salt Lake city, beautiful sunsets there in Salt Lake city, you got Sacramento. All those Californians move to cheaper Sacramento.
Joel (28m 13s):
You got Milwaukee, come on, is there a better place for beer and cheese and football this time of year? And then five, you got Kansas City Missouri. Now the, the steepest declines, you could probably name those cities. You got New York at number one, seeing a 23% decrease in terms of population. That's, that's pretty, that's pretty hard. A number two San Francisco Bay area. They're at 21% decreased Seattle, number three at 10% Boston and Portland, right around 9%.
Joel (28m 43s):
They're at the fourth and fifth worst. So yeah, the trend is, let's get the hell out of this, this, this city where we're all piled on each other and all contagious. And let's go move to, to Jacksonville where there's a beach nearby and there's at least one professional football team.
Chad (29m 2s):
Well, yeah, no question, less dense population, you know, less infected people. Right? But also, you know, for not for everybody, but for some remote work is in place into 2021 for, I would say for at least till 2021. So why stay? And then if you think about it, moving from New York city to Indianapolis would save a family, just mad, mad cash. So all of that, you know, the opportunity is, is showing itself to be able to do these types of things.