Indeed? Where we're going, we don't need Indeed.
Tiger King is back on Netflix, which makes the fact there's even an episode this week pretty amazing, but as much as we're junkies for Joe Exotic, we're more committed to opening HR's lizard brain on a weekly basis.
So, here we go: This week, the boys cover news out of Indeed and Glassdoor, as well as funding rounds for Rippling and Workato. Then it's on to The Great Resignation, covering news and commentary around Amazon fines, trucker shortage myths, a-hole CEOs and working for multiple employers, compliments of WFH. We even throw in a Britney reference, 'cause she's free now and all that.
TRANSCRIPTION SPONSORED BY: Disability Solutions partners with our clients to build best-in-class inclusion programs and reach qualified, talented individuals with disabilities of every skill, education, and experience level.
Hide your kids lock the doors. You're listening to HR is most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right? Where hers complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark buckle up boys and girls.
Oh yeah. Taylor is back, Brittany is free, Paris is hitched and Adele has a new album. I'm as happy as a little girl. I kids at your favorite Cowboys. You're listening to the Chad and cheese podcast. This is your co-host Joel "Oops. I did it again" Cheeseman.
And this is Chad "king of all media" Sowash.
On this week's show is Indeed killing the resume? Is the truck driver shortage a big lie and dating app bundle swipes right on the Metaverse. Oh yeah. And Tiger King is back kids. Woohoo!
Oh God, what's up Chad? Well, I just like to say that it feels good being the king of all media.
Joel (1m 2s):
Which leads you into your first shout out, I assume.
Chad (1m 6s):
Yeah. So, okay. Listeners, we received a really cool message from an industry leader this week and the subject was I've converted. And it goes a little, something like this, I've been a long time, Howard Stern listener, as long as I can remember, my car rides were filled with Stern. I'm going back to the office now a few days a week. And for the last month, I can say the only quote unquote "talk component of my drive has been your show. I think that means I've officially converted away from the king of all media to the Chad and Cheese show. Keep up the great work." Well, we appreciate it.
Chad (1m 47s):
Big ... where's our big applause at?
Joel (1m 50s):
I kept going into the lake. I kind of faded into Casey Kasemland there for a second. I remember the letter. So he used to write from listeners. This one comes from a listener out in Toledo, Ohio, Casey. When I first started dating Melissa anyway. Yeah. Shout out for that. That's great. King of all media. Shout out for me for, to Ben Herman, former founder of Canvas, the, I don't know, the three week stint of like drama on our show of what the hell happened at Canvas. Yeah. Well, he's been gone for a while now. He is now the founding partner at Ken Ventures. So any startups out there need some money, give Ben a call. He's apparently got some money to venture.
Chad (2m 32s):
Big shout out to Phillip Martino over at Factory Fix. I've never heard of this. It's a manufacturing employment platform. So we've got to check that out, Factory Fix. And Jared Donner over at sponsor and friend of the show, Jobvite. Just keep listening, get your peers, listening, your family, listening, everyone, you know, listening. And they can find us wherever they listen to podcasts.
Joel (2m 60s):
I've had a few Factory Fixed folks connect with me on LinkedIn. So it sounds like we have a new batch of fans there at Factory Fix. So shout out to the entire company!
Chad (3m 9s):
Joel (3m 9s):
Shout out for me to Troy Polamalu. I'm sneaking in some NFL shout outs.
Chad (3m 15s):
He's got great hair.
Joel (3m 16s):
He does have great hair and he apparently did a little deal with Fiverr last week, if you were going to Fiverr and maybe some of you were, he was out there doing some gigs, he was doing tattoos on himself. He was doing voiceovers, all kinds of good stuff. So, you know, the sports athlete endorsement remains strong and in our industry, shout out to Troy Polamalu, football strong safety, Hall of Famer, Troy.
Chad (3m 41s):
Oh, nice. Very nice. Well, I've been busy lately and I'd like to shout out to Prez Berendt and the crew over at Talent Alpha for having me join them on their human cloud webinar discussion today, it was pretty awesome. We had Barry Matthews who's the CEO of Open Assembly. He was over in London, Prez in Krakow, and here I was in good old Columbus, Indiana talking about a more open definition for work in systems and how we're actually going to make something like that happen. So if you want to check it out, it was an awesome discussion. You can check it out at talent-alpha.com.
Joel (4m 19s):
We're going to need a whole new section for your webinar appearances, seems to be a weekly thing. Shout out to Brian Chaney. I know we give a Indeed a lot of grief on the show, but they have some good people working there. Brian is one of the more well-known he is leaving the company after six years of being in their global employment brand guy. No word on his next steps. Although he did say in a LinkedIn post that he will still be trying to get people jobs, just not with Indeed.com. Brian, good luck to you and shout out.
Chad (4m 55s):
No reflection on Brian, but how often have we heard that in the last like five plus years of individuals who are like inside the Trump administration? Yeah. Oh yeah, he's in, but he's a good guy. It's you know, it's kind of like the evil empire that's, I don't get it. Anyway shout out to Madeline Laurano for inviting me to the high volume hiring webinar discussion yesterday. That's right the hits just keep on rolling kids. Thanks to the Fountain team for pulling it all together. The world of work is changing at speed systems, processes, regulations. I mean, all that shit hopefully will follow quickly because the great awakening is happening and we'll be talking about it on the pod today.
Chad (5m 41s):
If you want to check out the recording, go to get.fountain.com. Okay.
Joel (5m 47s):
And speaking of Lightspeed, Chad, our buddies at Paradox this week were named the fastest growing company in HR tech 2021, Deloitte technology, fast 500. And they're also the fastest growing company in the great state of Arizona. So to all of our friends out at Paradox, congratulations and shout out to you. In addition to that, Chad, we got some free shit.
Chad (6m 9s):
Joel (6m 10s):
You know how we do, we do shirts by Emissary. And by the way, I went to our buddies at Emissary and I said, guys, we're a little bit short of shirts. It's the holiday season. Can we do another batch of Chad and Cheese t-shirts and they gladly said yes. So shout out to Euan and the Emissary crowd, I'll be sending out shirts during the holidays. And we got some free time next week, which I think we'll talk about in a second. But yeah, some free shirts are going back out, but if you, if you don't have your free shirts, you need to go to Chadcheese.com/free. We have our beer drop winner this past month sponsored by Pillar that's Jeanette Leads.
Joel (6m 54s):
A lot of listeners will know her from an interview, I think we did at HR tech a few years ago and we do whiskey sponsored by Sovren and Chad you remember the free Pappy sponsorship promo that we did last year with Sovren. Everyone remembers that.
Chad (7m 11s):
Yeah, I remember it because I didn't get a fucking bottle. That's what I remember.
Joel (7m 19s):
Yeah, we got Jack shit. But this year I'm going to give you a little hint as to who our sponsor is and what we're giving away.
sfx (7m 28s):
Welcome to all things Scottish, our slogan is if it's no Scottish it's crap.
Joel (7m 33s):
That's right. Our friends at Candidate ID, Adam Gordon, he's getting a little sick of so much bourbon talk and this American shit, when his brown water is the original, the OG. It's been around longer than we've been a country. So he's like, guys, let's do some scotch this holiday season. And we are obliging him, coming soon, free scotch. We'll share it via email, everyone of our listers, but we're real excited to have some Peated good, good stuff this year in the form of scotch that big, thanks to Candidate ID, Adam and family for sponsoring that giveaway.
Joel (8m 12s):
Again, kids, Chadcheese.com/free for a lot of our free shit.
Chad (8m 18s):
Three winners this year. And I want Europe to know you guys are in this. Get in the free, get all in the free. There's there's a good opportunity here. Do we have birthdays? That's the question.
Joel (8m 33s):
We do have birthdays. We've got some heavy hitting birthdays.
sfx (8m 38s):
Chad (8m 38s):
Wait. All right.
Joel (8m 40s):
Let's start with Quincy Valencia, super friend of the show. She celebrates a birthday coming up. Jen Levine Riley, Katrina Polanski, Tracey Harmon and Jennifer Sheridan, fans of the show and industry icons, Tony Lee, Matt Charney, and Kevin Wheeler all celebrate birthdays this week! Guys and gals, another trip around the sun. Happy Birthday to those folks.
Chad (9m 7s):
And just for all of you out there who remember Licensed to Ill by the Beastie boys actually dropped turns 35, November 15th.
Joel (9m 22s):
And your favorite song from that album is?
Chad (9m 26s):
Joel (9m 27s):
Okay. Okay. I'm going to go Brass Monkey on that.
Chad (9m 31s):
Joel (9m 32s):
I might've said Girls, but I might get canceled if I say two at a time. I want girls with new wave hairdos. I want girls. We also have a fantasy football update Chad. We can't leave the week without that. And yeah, this is the highlight for you. All right. Here's our fantasy football leaderboard sponsored by poach.ai and the number one spot to the end. We have number one, Jason Mamoa Putnam. Number one, there we got Q dog Quincy Valencia making her second second mentioned in the show. Number three is your boy Cheese.
Joel (10m 13s):
That's the guy talking leaderboard right now. Benjamin Button Kuntz, Christy Crescent Moon, Chris Hemsworth Russell, Michael Jordan Cox, Pete Townsend Suchi, Bill and Ted Fanning. And last but not least, Chad.
Chad (10m 31s):
Dude, Michael Cox tried losing last week. He tried, he had Chubb in, Chubb was out because of COVID. Right? So I mean, it was like, it should have been mine, but this, for some reason, this Chad and Cheese football season, I've been kicked in the nuts so many times. Yeah. Thanks Michael. Thanks for kicking the nuts, man.
Joel (10m 50s):
Yeah. Yeah. Matt Stafford's decide to have the worst game of the year in my matchup with Ben Coons that a deep six, me and my chances of beating him. But anyway, I'm having fun playing some fantasy football. And if you didn't, if you haven't listened yet, make sure you check out Mr. ATS this week on the podcast. And speaking of sad, trombone sounds we got news out of Europe today. Chad, no Euro trip for you or at least no conference gangsta. COVID our trip to Europe or at least mine has been canceled.
Joel (11m 29s):
You are still going and you might, there's some silver lining to yours. You'll be in Paris instead of Belgium. But anyway, for those that were excited to see us in Europe, for those who were going to the conference, it is going to be rescheduled. We don't have that date yet, but needless to say, I will be in the great USA celebrating one of our great holidays, Thanksgiving. Eating, watching football and napping while you're in Paris.
Chad (11m 56s):
You're going to be in hog heaven let's just put it that way. You're going to be in a recliner, watching NFL football, eating a drumstick turkey, drumsticks turkey leg. You're going to be fine. You're gonna be fine.
Joel (12m 15s):
And I'm going to get a refund on my ticket, I think.
Chad (12m 20s):
Joel (12m 20s):
All right. It was a busy week this week. So close to Thanksgiving. All right, let's talk earnings from recruit holdings. One of the world's largest staffing firms reported revenue rose 23.2% and this fiscal second quarter ending September 30th revenue and it's quote HR technology and quote segment, which includes our buddies at Indeed and Glassdoor rose a whopping 107.3% year over year in the second quarter. As measured in us dollars, the increase was 100.1%. The company said, quote, "the limited supply of job seekers, looking for work combined with significant hiring demand, continued to increase competition for talent on Indeed and Glassdoor.
Joel (13m 5s):
And that competition was a significant driver of growth in Q2. Stop me if you've heard this one before, also out of recruit holdings, they say it's a time to ditch the resume. Recruit Holdings says it has a solution to the labor shortage. Get rid of the damn resumes CEO, Hisayuki Idekoba said, quote, "the hiring process is still resumes. Sending resumes, checking resumes" end quote. He added this as a great opportunity for us to move forward from old school and commit resume profile culture to asking what can you do? And instead recruit, suggest posing questions and assessment tests to job seekers, to see if they know how to navigate the specific tasks the job will require."
Joel (13m 51s):
And added, there are a huge amount of people who can't write resumes or don't have the skills to fill one out. Chad Recruit gave us a lot to talk about this week. What were your takeaways?
Chad (14m 5s):
I wonder how much revenue they would've pulled in if they hadn't started suffocating Glassdoor, what about a year or two ago? Right? If they actually had products to sell over at Glassdoor. I mean, they could have actually pushed more revenue, I believe. When it comes to this killing the resume thing. Yeah. There's no question, we need to get to a skills based type of a system. You know, he actually said quote, "hiring processes need to adapt to the times." Yeah, no kidding. But you took a search engine and regressed it back into a 1990s job board.
sfx (14m 47s):
Oh hell no.
Joel (14m 48s):
Yeah. He's back to the future to job boardland talking about ditching the resume.
Chad (14m 54s):
Well then he goes into state the obvious a degree for a job in restaurants. No shit. Job descriptions for restaurants that haven't been updated for 20 years yet. No shit. I mean, is that the best you got? We all know this, but what this all came down to for him really was it seemed like a paid ad to be able to talk about the new Indeed elixir, you know, pose questions in our interview system. Chat-based hiring process for drivers. Seriously, this dude is nothing more than an overpaid carnival barker.
Joel (15m 34s):
Dude, killing the resume has gotten headlines for 15 years. So yeah, it's just a recycling recycling a classic. So yeah, the company has a printing machine that just prints money. Baby. Life is good there and it's going to be good for the foreseeable future 10 years from now. Probably not so much, but Hey, for the next 12 months, it's boats and hoes baby. Secondly, like I said, the resume is dead narrative has been around for a long time. You and I remember Visual CV. Do you remember those guys ever going to kill the resume back in 2006 or so?
Chad (16m 7s):
Joel (16m 8s):
Yeah, no. You know, for white collar jobs, the CV isn't going anywhere, parsing and analyzing and the technology around resumes and how they're, you know, how they're chopped up and understood will evolve because schools are gonna keep teaching resume writing.
Chad (16m 21s):
For frontline workers, however, you know, did they really have a resume to begin with? I know, I sure didn't when I was working front line shit back in, back in the eighties and nineties, I remember filling out an application which was kind of like a resume and turning it into the store manager. That's still the case now, except it's an online application and maybe there's some screening questions and some shit there, but I mean, resume or application not much has changed. And I don't think Indeed is going to change that anyway. I think the bigger threat to the resume is the gig economy where people perform jobs on contract, they get reviews, they get stars, you know, they get badges and whatever else.
Joel (17m 3s):
I mean, that's going to be much more impactful than, you know, the Indeed style pre-screening questions and anything that they're going to be dropping over the next few years,
Chad (17m 13s):
Everything he talked about was old shit. It's at least 10 years old. And now that Indeed's doing it, it's like, oh, this is, this is a warp speed. Good. No big fucking deal. I was on again, two webinars this week that was talking about different systems that will engage and get individuals into jobs tomorrow. I don't know they're going to continue to make money because talent acquisition is afraid to change. They are risk averse and they will continue to apply money to, that's why the resume still exists because because of old non adopting HR people.
Joel (17m 58s):
Yeah. It would be better for Indeed to launch like a Kinko's clone and sell resume printing services on high grade burgundy paper or whatever tacky paper. All right, enough with Recruit Holdings, let's work our way to Workato interview based Workato. They automate work, Workato, get a job. It took about four YouTube videos for me to find out exactly how to pronounce Workato to make sense. But anyway, they closed a 200 million series E this week that values the company at $5.7 billion. I'm going to save you the unicorn soundbite this week.
Chad (18m 36s):
Joel (18m 37s):
The enterprise platform allows it's more than 11,000 customers to automate business and workflow processes. The new funding comes just nine months after Workato raised a $110 million series D. The company has raised more than $420 million in total funding to date. In addition to helping automate multiple segments of a business Workato promises, its HR automation tools can improve everything from time to hire, user experience onboarding and offboarding. Chad, what you got on Workato.
Chad (19m 7s):
I think HR and talent acquisition have seen the bright, shiny AI for so long they don't know what RPA is and RPA is the bomb. I mean, there are so many tasks within an organization that do not need human eyes or hands on it, including recruiting, onboarding, nurturing and the list goes on. This is the type of broad based business system that we need to start to do one of two things either see how we can get bigger business to buy it for us, because this is way too big for fucking HR or look for platforms in our space who are emulating this.
Chad (19m 52s):
The CEO and co-founder told TechCrunch right now, we're focused on and making Workato the company you think of when you think of integration and automation. Those two words, integration and automation, that is the future of just about every aspect of business that we're looking at today. So I felt like this was an important company to talk about because of the business aspect and how we could perspectively ride that wave.
Joel (20m 20s):
Did we talk to a, was it Max that we talked pretty in-depth about RPA?
Chad (20m 25s):
Yeah. Yeah. Talk Push is really focused heavily on RPA.
Joel (20m 27s):
Yeah. So if you wanted to hear a little bit more about that, check out our archives at chadcheese.com to learn more about RPA. So I had to dig a little bit to find out how Workato supported hiring. To me it sounded a lot like if you remember the company, if, if this, then that iftt.com where you just set up, basically RSS feeds to connect with each other, which is kind of what they do, but I didn't know exactly how it worked with HR. So one, one issue in particular, an article they wrote entitled 'HR automation, what it is and how you can implement it' really helped me understand the value proposition. To me. It just, it's simply a Workato sounds like IFTT in a more structured way that's more digestible for companies and it obviously works.
Joel (21m 10s):
They have a ton of clients, they are getting a ton of money and investment. The question for me is will Workato replace all the specialized solutions out there to be an all encompassing automation platform. For some companies, IT is going to say, oh, Workato can do that so we don't need fill in the blank startup or solution in our space. That's probably a weak HR department In many cases, I think more we'll fight for the employment specific apps that are built just for hiring, as opposed to slapping on some Workato, what they call recipes on their site, which is really cute. You can create little recipes for....
Chad (21m 52s):
IFTT. That's what they called theirs.
Joel (21m 52s):
Yeah. So, so if you're into recipes and cutesy stuff, Workato is probably for you. I think if you're a more serious, serious company, you're probably gonna want specific solutions that fit your specific needs.
Chad (22m 7s):
Once again, we've got to take a look at the trends, the business trends that are happening within our organization. And again, try to mimic what's happening. There's a reason why it's happening.
Joel (22m 17s):
All right, next up, we have Rippling
Chad (22m 21s):
Joel (22m 22s):
Not ripple the stuff we used to drink in the early nineties. Power to the employee! Last month, Rippling announced it raised 250 million in funding at a $6.5 billion valuation to continue scaling up its employee management platform, which enables companies to streamline a variety of tasks ranging from worker training to device, cyber security. With Salesforce like ambitions, Rippling hopes to become a one-stop shop for both SMBs and the enterprise to manage their employees, applications and devices, all in one place. The number of customers using the startups application has more than doubled over the last year.
Joel (23m 6s):
That's according to TechCrunch while annual recurring revenue increased by 270% off an undisclosed base, undisclosed based. Anyway, Rippling has an employee first approach, Chad, what's that all about? Employee first approach.
Chad (23m 19s):
If you read into this TechCrunch article, there is so much signaling that's happening here. I like seeing Conrad sending a shot over the Salesforce bow, which was incredibly calculated. In a couple of ways, first compare your company to a mega successful brand. I mean that's not a bad thing, right? We're just like Salesforce. Then call them out to hope that they start paying attention to you for the prospect of who knows acquisition? Because there probably aren't many companies out there that would want, or like to acquire a Rippling. It's pretty much like a little boy who hits the little girl on the playground.
Chad (24m 3s):
He only wanted attention. It's not a bad strategy, but I think it was a pretty transparent, but one that investors like. The Salesforce comparison, tying customer IDs together with tying candidate or employee IDs together in a single system, sounds like a great idea until you start digging into all of the layers of tech and also antiquated systems that currently hold the employee records. I think this guy obviously has done this before. This is not his first rodeo when it comes to tech. So he knows all the steps and you can see it! Right here. This is not something that is easy.
Chad (24m 44s):
He's making it sound easy. He's talking about no code, which I think is awesome. The problem with no code situations, are implementation, and continuing to keep those implementation through maintenance tight, to make sure that they're not breaking all the time. So yeah, at the end of the day, will this change anything in our industry? I don't think so. I don't think it's going to change much.
Joel (25m 5s):
By the way. No code for my money is Pearl Jam's most underrated album. I just want to throw that in there. Yeah. This is a really hard thing to do. No, one's really done it. LinkedIn could probably do it or get as close, but they want to be a walled garden and don't want to do that. I remember talking to iCIMS three years ago and they were going to have like an iCIMS passport where your resume would seamlessly, you know, apply to everything and every ATS and every job board.
Chad (25m 35s):
Joel (25m 36s):
And we haven't really heard much from that initiative in awhile. So yes, a very hard thing to do. I want to talk about Parker Conrad for a second. Cause the dude is a piece of work. So number one, he has customer support on his LinkedIn profile as opposed to co-founder, CEO, which to me is just really douchey. It's like a recruiter saying I'm a, I'm a sourcing ninja or I'm a boolean, you know, ninja.
Chad (26m 4s):
It's not that bad.
Joel (26m 6s):
It's pretty close. So he's got customer support on his LinkedIn profile. So dude, co-founded Zenefits in 2012. Talk about a train wreck. For those who don't know Zenefits sold software, they still do, to automate health insurance, payroll, and other HR functions for small businesses. They raised about $580 million in about two years, valuing the company at 4.5 billion, which back then in 2015 was like, unheard of. I know we talk about those kinds of valuations every week, but back then it was pretty non-existent. So then shit hit the fan. Zenefits hired too many people, grew too fast and the company culture spiraled out of control.
Joel (26m 50s):
How out of control you ask? There were rumors of sex and used condoms in the company's Valley headquarters stairwell in February of 2016.
Chad (26m 59s):
Like monster.com back then.
Joel (26m 60s):
Conrad resigned amid concerns that Zenefits rollercoaster-like growth was juiced by giving the finger to regulatory laws governing who is and who isn't allowed to sell insurance. And here we are less than five years later and this cat is back raising the same kind of money. I say good luck to the investors. Does he have the same pool that Jason Goldberg can tap into? I know America loves a good comeback story, but come on man, like Parker Conrad, maybe the worm has turned on you my man, but for my money leopard doesn't change its spots. And I think we'll be talking about Rippling in a few years as another train wreck.
Joel (27m 40s):
Call me cynical. Let's take a quick break, pay some bills and talk about quitting.
Chad (27m 47s):
It's quitting time!
Joel (27m 47s):
America is a nation of quitters. Chad, quit in time, take this job and show it so a lot going on this week with quitters and working and great resignation.
Chad (28m 0s):
Joel (28m 1s):
Forbes had a great article that sort of encapsulate this encapsulates this that they called "We've become a nation of quitters." 4.4 million Americans left their jobs in September, according to the most recent data from the US job openings and labor turnover reported 4.4 million Americans left their jobs in September for only one month. This is an enormous amount of people, either quitting their job or switching to a new opportunity. And don't forget the US has 10.4 million job openings at this moment as well. Chad, of all the quitting news this week, what stood out to you?
Chad (28m 32s):
There's a bunch. And I keep getting asked the same question over and over. What is it? What's that one thing that's making people quit. And it's not one thing. I really think that this is the great awakening. It's not the great resignation. It's not the great reshuffling. We are starting to wake the fuck up as people and people are starting to understand that they wield more power in the workforce. Essential workers finally understood they were essential and their wages didn't reflect it. So, you know, why are people quitting?
Chad (29m 11s):
Employers wanting employees to come back to the office, that's a good reason. Lack of childcare. Why can't we pass a fucking infrastructure bill for this? I mean, this is big! Wages on average, and this is what everybody's seeing on average CEOs are making 320 times that of an essential worker. Think of this Kroger CEO has a salary of $21 million that represents the wages of 700 essential workers at Kroger. So if the CEO were gone for a month, he probably does it often, by the way, how much do you think that would actually impact Kroger versus taking those 700 essential workers out of the mix?
Chad (30m 2s):
Joel (30m 3s):
Chad (30m 3s):
We're starting to understand. We're looking in the mirror saying, why are we getting fucked? Amazon fined by the state of California for concealing COVID cases, what fucking assholes? Activision and Blizzard back in the news faced another walkout around sexual discrimination. What fucking assholes? Who wants to work for these companies? Then you have the trucking industry who says they're short on truckers, but we have enough truckers about 2 million Americans work as licensed truck drivers. We have CDLs and states issue more than 450,000 new commercial driver's licenses every year.
Chad (30m 43s):
We don't have a lack of qualified drivers. We have a lack of drivers who want to fucking do the job. Jobs are shitty. We're working for assholes and CEO's just don't give a shit. So that's what I think have brought us to the brink today.
Joel (31m 1s):
Yeah. You know, people and Americans in particular like simple answers, they like, you know, tweets about explaining something to me. And in this case, it's just not that easy.
Chad (31m 12s):
Joel (31m 12s):
Now the inflation issue isn't cut and dry and neither is the work, the work epidemic of quitting and resignation. You've outlined a lot of those very elegantly. I think, you know, you and I get questions a lot about workforce, whatever, when we're at cocktail parties or at a bar, you know, people know what we do. And they're like, what's with everybody quitting? and how do we have so many jobs? And nobody's taking the jobs. And it's like a really hard answer. It's really hard question to answer. But for me, like, you know, quitting, quitting is largely two-sided. One is your frontline workers. And that's where the most of the quitting is happening.
Joel (31m 54s):
Most of the quitting is happening in your in-person, earning relatively low paid jobs.
Chad (31m 60s):
Joel (32m 1s):
Essential workers. And to me, that's a fairly easy one because of the gig economy, which the article in Forbes really outlines that government data doesn't really take into account contract workers and which is basically gig workers. And if I'm a frontline worker, I'm really open to like driving an Uber, driving a Door Dash, doing Shift, like all the things that I could sort of hustle have my time when I needed it work when I wanted to. And if I can survive on that, as opposed to dealing with, you know, shitty customers and crappy bosses, and I got to go work every day at the same time, and I got to work double shifts and yada, yada, like to me, that's an easy sort of bridge to build as to why those, those positions are so hard to fill. I think the white collar stuff is becoming more difficult to explain.
Joel (32m 44s):
You mentioned shitty CEO's, you know, I think the Guardian has a great story that was out this week and we've talked about it on the show, where people have multiple jobs, whether that's multiple full-time jobs and the whole work from home phenomenon has enabled people to say, Hey, I've got this job, but hey, I'm also going to hustle on the side, I'm going to do a little Upwork. I'm gonna do a little Fiverr, I'm gonna do a little whatever. And some people are taking that too extreme with having actual multiple full-time employment. I don't know how long that's going to last and how long employees and employers are going to put up with that. I guess, as long as the results are there to keep your job, companies are going to have to get more comfortable with people having multiple full-time jobs.
Chad (33m 22s):
And should we care about anything more than that though?
Joel (33m 25s):
I don't think we should, unless it's a competitor, like, you know, if, if someone's working for Indeed and ZipRecruiter, that's probably going to raise some red flags.
Chad (33m 33s):
Joel (33m 34s):
But if I'm a developer and I'm doing my job and I'm fulfilling my expectations.
Chad (33m 38s):
Cranking out code.
Joel (33m 38s):
Yeah, I think employers are probably going to have to get used to that. You know, the Amazon issue, I think is what's funny about, you mentioned how they've agreed to pay $500,000 to better enforce state consumer protection laws. First of all, $500,000 to Amazon is like, you know, when Bezos takes a shit, he's earned $500,000 in interest.
Chad (33m 59s):