Indeed Zaps Back!
This week HR's Most Dangerous Podcast welcomes TApod cohost Lauren Sharp to the mic and kicks Cheesman to the couch for another nap. Obviously, this means the show is going to have somewhat of an Aussie flare. This week Chad and Lauren talk about...
- Indeed doubles down on shitty UX and Zaps back!
- Careerbuilder playing the role of drunken college kid
- Google, Facebook, and Tiktok get governmentally screwed
- Victoria's 2.0 hotel sex COVID lockdown
and Wild.ai plays the menstrual cycle angle? Huh...??
Don't be a few stubbies short of a six-pack mate, listen! This Dog's breakfast is brought to your by our mates at Sovren, Jovite, and JobAdX.. G'day!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Disability Solutions helps companies find talent in the largest minority community in the world – people with disabilities.
Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HRS most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Welcome to the Chad and cheese podcast. I'm Chad. So OSH accompanied by my guest host
Lauren Sharp. Hello everybody,
Which means this is going to have an Aussie flair to it kids, but let's not get ahead of ourselves because we're talking today about the evil empire. AKA Indeed, who's doubling down on shitty user experience, CareerBuilder playing the drunken college kid and Google Facebook and Tik Tok are getting governmentally screwed from all angles. We're a few stubby short of a six pack. So wrap your laughing gear around that. And I have no clue what the fuck any of that means.
Chad (1m 9s):
You're welcome. Australia. Stay tuned.
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Chad (1m 44s):
Okay. So I have no clue, Lauren, what any of that actually means, few stubby short of a six pack. I'm a thinking, it means that I'm stupid. Does that right?
Lauren (2m 1s):
Pretty much you got it right.
Chad (1m 44s):
And wrap your laughing gear around that. What does that mean?
Lauren (2m 11s):
That usually means ate something. Okay. <inaudible> Well, or something like that to wrap your laughing gear around that.
Chad (2m 18s):
Ah, gotcha. Okay. So what are, what are some of your favorite Australian saying slang that we don't really get here in the U S
Lauren (2m 27s):
Actually one of my favorite terms, I use it quite a lot is "wanker" it's more British than anything, but then again, Australia is very British in a lot of respects and being part of the empire. But yeah, you're a wanker pretty much. That's my favorite sums everything up. You just look at someone and you get that eye roll. You sort of get that little bit of a sneer and go, you're such a Wanker.
Chad (2m 49s):
Yes. So do you guys, do you guys use douchebag? Because I think that's very similar,
Lauren (2m 52s):
Yeah but no that's very American.
Chad (2m 54s):
Okay. So Lauren Sharp, for those of you who have been in the corner in the fetal position for, for, for a year or so, who are you? Who's Lauren Sharp. What is this TaPod thing we keep hearing about?
Lauren (3m 11s):
Part of Talent Acquisition pod is the brainchild of Craig and myself. Australia had no local content when it came to talent acquisition. There were a few podcasts around about HR and agency recruitment, but nothing really catering for in house that was specific. So we are listening to a lot of stuff out of Europe and the U S. Mostly you guys out of the U S.
Chad (3m 33s):
You've got a following down here, believe me. And yes, we started it up a year ago this month. Well, happy anniversary.
Lauren (3m 43s):
Thank you. Thank you.
Chad (3m 46s):
So for those who don't know, we're actually doing a, a radical crossover. What that means is we were lucky enough to get Lauren on to Chad and Cheese, and we were even more lucky to get Joel's ass outta here for a minute. And he is joining Craig on TaPod. When, when is your podcast actually gonna drop?
Lauren (4m 6s):
Do you know, Next Monday we drop it every Monday morning, Australian time, which will be Sunday evening your time. So that'd be dropped Monday morning and yeah, so basically we've done the podcast version of keys in the vault.
Chad (4m 23s):
Okay. Let's go ahead and let's jump into shout out guests first. Who's your, who's your shout out to?
Lauren (4m 28s):
My pod husband. We're in lockdown. So I won't see him now for at least six weeks.
Chad (4m 33s):
Lauren (4m 34s):
Yeah, it was Australia. We're in Victoria. So we've gone down to a stage for lockdown when we can't leave our houses without basically having a little permission slip,
Chad (4m 44s):
Which is where we should have been a long time ago.
Lauren (4m 46s):
Yeah. You guys are screwed. Really screwed, but we'll talk about that a bit later. I'm so yeah, my shout out is to my pod husband, who I will miss for the next six weeks.
Chad (4m 58s):
Well, excellent. Well, I'm going to start out with Laura Rendle, who is Clorox's newest CEO, that's 38 CEOs kids in the fortune 500. I'm giving her a big applause, but we're, we're going to give the, the fortune 500 a, a big one of these "boo" less than 10%, less than 10% of fortune 500 CEOs are female Lauren.
Chad (5m 29s):
Why the fuck is that the case? It makes no sense to me.
Lauren (5m 32s):
Well, we certainly have a lot of qualified women out there to do the roles. That's not an issue. We just need to get them to apply for the roles. I think some of it is that mummy shoe that has been discussed over and over again about when we take time off work, it is getting better, but it's still not where it needs to be. We have a lack of parity on wages. That's another one where why would we put our hand up for that role if we're going to get less? Just because we're female.
Chad (5m 56s):
Lauren (5m 57s):
Why go through that stress?
Chad (5m 59s):
Yes, I mean, just the, the parity overall, right? And I think that's, that's something that we talk about a lot here on the podcast. I also talked to shout out to Rena Gupta, who is the CEO of Mom Relaunch. I had a great discussion with her this week and hopefully we'll get her on the podcast for interview, but she has an organization that is focused specifically on like you, you were talking about the mommy tracking when you go off to have a kid. Again, we don't, we don't live to work.
Chad (6m 29s):
Right? Do we have lives? Right? So her a company, Mom Relaunch focuses on again. He rejected those females back into corporate life. So looking forward to connecting hopefully with her sometime soon.
Lauren (6m 46s):
That sounds like a good one. I might have to listen to that one.
Chad (6m 48s):
I hope you listen to all of them. What are you kidding? Big shout out to Roy Etnyre or this guy's a masochist guys. He's celebrating his 15th year at Monster. Can you believe that 15 years? Great time. 15 years now, get your ass back out there and sell something last. Last for me, Kylie Frank from Milwaukee and Peter Shelley over at Glassdoor in London. Thanks for listening guys.
Chad (7m 19s):
Really appreciate it. You also wanted to talk about what does that, that Hung Lee thing that was happening.
Lauren (7m 27s):
I did. I wanted to mention Hung. He sent out his schedule for August last night, lying in bed, reading a book ping. And it comes as usual along with your hundred million messages. And the 21st of August, he's doing a Comcast of the Beauty Bias Hiring in the Era of Video. And I think with all the bias and everything that we've got going on already, do we need to add this? I, yeah, obviously it's going to evolve. How are we going to eliminate this bias as well?
Lauren (7m 57s):
I'm always talking about diversity and inclusion.
Chad (7m 60s):
So why is this coming up now? Because just because we're seeing people on video, we've interviewed people face to face for years. I'm glad it is coming up, but, but why is this something that's coming up now? Is it, do you think that video makes this just a bigger perspective issue?
Lauren (8m 17s):
I think it does. I also think it's coming up now because we are all trapped in our homes and we're relying on seeing each other on zoom and teams and everything else. So I think people are now gravitating towards the use of video a lot quicker than what they normally would. And I do think that it's hard. We get so many buyers through name and cultural differentiation, that throwing this in, it's just another one that I think we can miss out on some good talent purely because of the way somebody looks. And by not looking at the qualifications,
Chad (8m 46s):
Some people would ask what's too far. Are we going too far? Is somebody being, you know, being born good-looking or hot, is that, is that too far?
Lauren (8m 58s):
You can't change genetics unless you are Kardashians.
Chad (9m 1s):
Well, but you can't change genetics with skin color either. Right? So I totally understand that, but I mean, it's like, is there a too far there might not be, but is there a too far?
Lauren (9m 11s):
I don't know. I can't answer that question. I think we're, it's going to happen and we need to work out how to get past the bias, but also it's a whole new revenue streams coming up here where media companies are going to be pitching to people to do their online CVs. And there's a whole new revenue stream coming up there
Chad (9m 31s):
Before I get myself in trouble. Some are to evolve. I was online today with Elaine Orler and Peter Clare. That's the Jobvite event. And we were talking about pretty much, I guess you can say paraphrasing how to make sure that you're on onboard. Doesn't suck. And my question to you is have you ever been onboarded to accompany and it not suck?
Lauren (9m 54s):
No, absolutely not never happened.
Chad (9m 57s):
I think we are starting to understand from an experience standpoint that HR sucks at experience and really we're taking way too many shortcuts. Yeah,
Lauren (10m 7s):
Pretty much. That's it? That too many shortcuts nothing's prepared on the first day, giving someone a laptop and a log-ins not exactly saying, Hey, welcome.
Chad (10m 15s):
Exactly. So if you want to check out how to make onboarding not suck much like everything else that we talk about with regard to experience like applying for a job, go to summertoevolve.com. You can see obviously the content that we did today, video content, and there are weeks of content from before free of charge. I don't know if I said that before, but people like free.
Lauren (10m 41s):
They do like free. Actually. I'm just writing all of this down because I want to go and see this.
Chad (10m 46s):
August 27th, I'll be speaking and moderating a panel at a digital event. Go figure COVID times it's called Recruitment Hackers. And it's by our friends over at Talk Push. Or are you familiar with Talk Push?
Lauren (11m 2s):
Particularly? You said before that their Asia pack, but I think they might be more Asia than PAC.
Chad (11m 6s):
Okay. I think they might be more Asia than PAC and might be because that's where the money's at. I don't know. It could be? The event is focused on optimizing recruitment for a remote workforce. Go figure? I can go to recruitmenthackers.events. All right, Lauren. So you have a tease for us in the events area.
Lauren (11m 29s):
I do have a couple actually what a couple. I know. He knew I would come with the goods today. Well, I spoke with Andrea Kirby yesterday from the recruitment events company here in Australia, New Zealand. And she does have a webinar coming out on the 13th of August here with smart recruiters. And it's a Build a Business Case for TA Transformation and Jerome Tunic is actually hosting it for us. So that will be a great one to jump on with, but she's also got some really interesting news coming up next week that she's going to announce she's keeping her cards close to her chest on this one.
Lauren (12m 8s):
So I think we're all waiting with bated breath to see what Andrea comes out with next week.
Chad (12m 13s):
I won't tell anybody, just go ahead. Just tell me, whisper,
Lauren (12m 17s):
But I know that this is recording. So no piss off,
Chad (12m 21s):
Lauren (12m 23s):
It's gonna take more than a news article. Text to me in the middle of the night to get my answers.
Chad (12m 28s):
There was more than one news tax. Okay. At the middle of the night, I said several. Okay. So that's the kind of romance I bring to this relationship, winning business, insider articles, right? That being said, let's go ahead and hit those topics.
Lauren (12m 42s):
Oh, whew. Wow we're gonna go big today. Aren't we?
Ding, Ding, Ding
Chad (12m 48s):
Indeed virtual interviewing this site. It was funny. Somebody sent this to me and it was in Business Insider and I thought, okay. I thought indeed already had this.
Lauren (12m 58s):
But last week we were talking about indeed quote unquote, and doing air quotes, partnering with glass door and by partnering, we mean suffocating this week, indeed launches virtual interviewing to their events product. Again, it doesn't seem like much to me because it's just on their hiring events. Are you guys familiar with In-, I know you're familiar with Indeed.
Lauren (13m 29s):
Cause they're like the number two site in Australia, do they, are they pushing the hiring events really hard in Australia? They are pushing a little bit and not as hard as you guys are getting it as we were having a chat earlier off air, like they are number two in Australia and coming up quite quickly. The number one site here is our Local Job on Seek here is the biggest one. But as we were chatting off air before we went live here, it's just, I can't see Seek remaining on top for much longer.
Lauren (13m 59s):
This is my prediction, it's this they changed their pricing model at the start of the year and bought some of the pricing for the bigger agencies up to level where everyone else was paying as they were paying some amazingly cheap price when they first began or when time began, whichever was first. and yeah, they are now twice as much to put an ad out on seek than it is on Indeed. So I think Indeed or overtake them here in Australia very soon. Alright. Message to Seek: "Don't be stupid." If you give Indeed a window of opportunity.
Lauren (14m 30s):
You might want to ask Monster and CareerBuilder how that worked for them? And glass door?
Chad (14m 36s):
It didn't, yes. Oh yeah. So here's a little, a little insight from their website quotes "Indeed hiring events. So virtual interviewing technology combines a video conferencing capabilities with a virtual lobby or waiting room for candidates that mimics experience of an actual event for job seekers." Now. So what they're saying here is let's take that whole, the horrible part of in real life hiring and replicate that suck online.
Chad (15m 5s):
Masterful, way to fuck up the whole prospect of a great experience Indeed, good job.
Lauren (15m 10s):
I it's going to carry that on over to their on-boarding experience.
Chad (15m 16s):
Exactly. Right. But they did do something. I think that could work hopefully on their side, more of a pro this week, they're on the road to acquiring ZAPinfo. So luckily that new sucky UX is not the, the big story. I think for indeed this week, are you familiar with ZAPinfo at all?
Lauren (15m 35s):
I'm familiar with them and other products like that, the whole scraping of info and everything off the internet, which is, I'm quite curious. I was looking at ZAPinfo yesterday and how are they going to work with their partners out there now if they're going to be very much well owned by Indeed?
Chad (15m 54s):
That's, that's always the hard question, right? I think we're seeing that with click IQ. I think we're seeing, Oh, I'm sorry. Indeed IQ. Yeah. I'm not sure. And I think, you know, overall, this could be a short term fix to a longterm problem. Indeed, I mean, and this is well known is an island. I mean, they pretty much do their own thing their own way and fuck everybody else. The problem is the whole deep integration to getting contacts and information from a database into their applicant tracking system or CRM.
Chad (16m 30s):
So I see Doug Berg, who is a serial entrepreneur, friend of the show, CEO and mastermind of ZAPinfo. He's sold companies like techies.com jobs to web my alerts. And then he got back into this space and now he looks like he's, he's selling zap info, which is a recruitment automation tool that, you know, again, I think this was a good time for him to sell
Lauren (16m 56s):
Timing, actually sell up in COVID and go buy an Island.
Chad (17m 1s):
I know, I don't know if he made that much off of it. I mean, Doug's a smart guy, not to mention, he has plenty of other acquisitions to be able to work off of.
Lauren (17m 10s):
Branson might sell his island cheaply.
Chad (17m 12s):
He might. Yeah. Or one of the islands to his island.
Chad (17m 17s):
Okay. So let's wrap this up. I know indeed says ZAPinfo will be provided as an added value to recruiters using indeed yet, but we've also heard inklings of recruit holdings, wanting to focus on what they do best and that's staffing. I would say ZAP integrated into higher their staffing product behind the scenes as well. So to end this whole ZAP acquisition, rap, I believe privacy laws and the economy force Doug into this move and good for him, man.
Chad (17m 49s):
He's smart. And he knows when to sell.
Lauren (17m 53s):
Pretty much. As we're talking about acquisitions, we've got to gloss over this one real quick career builder sold Kareira.gr. And I'm probably saying that wrong, but it's K A R E I R A.gr here's the quick and easy of the story. And nobody should be surprised. CareerBuilder's Kareira.gr it's a Greek job site that was sold back.
Chad (18m 19s):
I believe to its original owners. As I was reading this, it felt like, you know, this is one of those college kids trashed and Airbnb. And then the owners come back to a wreck. The original owners sell it to these college kids at career builder. And then they come back. It's like, ah, I got to clean this shit up. It doesn't seem like much other than CareerBuilder, trying to get rid of shit that they really don't need. What, what do you think?
Lauren (18m 47s):
I think it's pretty much that's it, it's a garage sale,
Chad (18m 51s):
But something that's not a garage sale. And it has been big as we've talked about it here in the U S is Google for Jobs and they've added a markup for work from home jobs. Are you guys seeing Google for Jobs do anything in Australia?
Lauren (19m 6s):
Not really. It hasn't really come to light here because we're such a small market population wise. It's the two big job boards being Seek and Indeed a really got a hold on it here. And we're not going to be a much of a big money spinner for Google jobs down here until they sort of finished fighting out and see who's going to be winner. I think.
Chad (19m 25s):
It's interesting to see what Google does as they kind of tip toe through antitrust. Let's go ahead and take a break. We'll come back. We'll be talking about the, how the Aussies are setting the content benchmark with Google and Facebook. We will be right back.
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Chad (21m 10s):
Aussie Aussie Aussie. Oh wait. So, so Reuters. And this is, this is, this is your story. You want to take this one? This is a great story.
Lauren (21m 21s):
This is an interesting one. Isn't it? Yeah. So Australia will force the U S tech giants, Facebook alphabet, Google to pay for Australian media outlets, but news content in a landmark move to protect independent journalism! God we're fighting for independent journalists aren't we? Oh gosh we're such leaders in the pack here.
Chad (21m 44s):
Lauren (21m 45s):
Apparently we are. So I don't know how this has come about. To be honest, I've got a fair inkling that a couple of weeks ago in the media down here, we are Bauer media who own quite a few magazines. I've actually shut printing of eight magazines permanently in Australia. Wow. So we're not going to have an Aussie edition. So I'm wondering if this has come off the back of that because we are going to be losing our additions of Men and Women's health. I think Harper's Bazaar, Elle magazine, InStyle, New Weekly, Good Health a lot.
Lauren (22m 18s):
So there's quite a few there even Okay. Magazine. We will no longer have Australian specific editions of those. We will be looking at the UK and us stuff from now on.
Chad (22m 28s):
So that's, I mean, those are physical magazines. What about the online versions? Will they still have online versions with content?
Lauren (22m 35s):
They will have a few online versions of that, but it's going to predominantly not be Australian content. So I'm wondering if our government have just jumped on to the back of that? Wondering if we try and keep a few things alive down here, because so many people in marketing and journalism cut their teeth on some of those magazines?
Chad (22m 55s):
Right. We've seen this before, because this is a royalty file system. This is content being provided by media companies and Google and Facebook are using the hell out of it. This quote is coming from Politico. "There is a fundamental bargaining power imbalance between news media, businesses and the major digital platforms, partly because news businesses have no option, but to deal with the platform, AKA monopolies, and they have little ability to negotiate over payment for their content or other issues."
Chad (23m 33s):
I, I see this as definitely a content play. There's no question, but Google made a very good point in saying that the regulation ignores that they send billions of clicks to Australian news publishers. So if Google and Facebook remove the content, or if they, if they actually drive it down in the organic content or what have you, isn't that going to hurt Australian publishers, online publishers?
Lauren (24m 4s):
I think you're right. It probably will hurt them, but let's see how this plays out because I think our communications and media authority usually do have a pretty onto this sort of stuff so no one can actually dominate. So we don't have too much of a monopoly on one area, but it'll be interesting to see how they're going to do that. It's like they're trying to make the pay tax for years and they haven't. Yeah.
Chad (24m 27s):
Well, in, in Germany, Axel Springer actually decided to allow the firm to publish their content for free. After a drop in traffic with the snippets no longer showed in Google news. So I think what's going to have to happen. And what sounds like it's happening in Australia is that Australia is not going to allow the downgraded search results, the D listing to happen if they're going to operate in that country.
Chad (24m 59s):
So we'll definitely pay attention to this. I think this is there is that power imbalance that they're talking about is true. It is there in this case. I mean, government is, is, is really coming hard to try to force balance. That's true.
Lauren (25m 15s):
Let's watch this space and see what happens.
Chad (25m 17s):
I want to know as an American, your experience with the Trump presidency.
Lauren (25m 26s):
Oh, okay. From an outsider, looking in, you guys are fuck your Supreme leader, Donald he's. Oh my God. I can't believe it's out of want of choice. People refuse to vote for Hillary and this decade got in. It's just we watching what's going on over there. You guys are totally Natalie screwed, denying what's happening with the pandemic. You don't have universal health care. Your poverty line for a first world. Nation is just unbelievable.
Lauren (25m 57s):
Really unbelievable that that gap between the one percenters and the rest of the Americans is just growing by the day. Can you, I just urge everyone out there in America to go out and vote, please, because what you do affects the rest of the world.
Chad (26m 12s):
Well, that being said, I'm going to take it back to something that is with less social impact. Tick tock. That's saying if you've got a millennial here's here's, here's my point though. Here's my point. Everything you just said is exactly where we should be focusing. Okay. We should be focusing on all of these inequities in, in the broadening of the wealth gap. Right. And trying to redistribute funds so that, you know, like 15% or so of our working population is seen as the working poor, which that is ridiculous.
Chad (26m 48s):
How can you be a working poor? You should be able to live if you are working. Exactly. But, but, but, but Donald wants to, he wants to ban tick talk. And again, these are the things that we're focusing on in this country, instead of the things that you brought up right out of the gate, right? The things that actually matter to impact Americans every single day. And it's not just impacting Americans. Let's, let's be real here. It's impacting the global economy. Oh yeah. Hell yeah.