JobGet Buys Monster? Inside the CareerBuilder Fire Sale

The Chad & Cheese crew teams up with JT O’Donnell to unpack a week of HR tech chaos and eyebrow-raising headlines:

• 💥 CareerBuilder + Monster go bankrupt — $25M owed, JobGet grabs the scraps

• 🧾 Vendors screwed — Google, Talroo, Appcast, and more left holding the bag

• 📉 Dice layoffs — Revenue tanks, execs cut staff while Wall Street cheers

• 🤖 Automation hits hard — Robots now unload trucks better than humans

• 🚗 Tesla's $4.20 robo-taxis — Cool tech, glitchy rides, questionable weed vibes

• 🍔 In-N-Out sues a YouTuber — Fake employees, real lawsuits

• 🔥 OnlyFans stats drop — West Virginia wins, Mississippi loses (again)

• 📱 Job board evolution? — JT explains why UX finally matters

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Joel Cheesman (00:34.478)

I see your Schwartz is as big as mine. This is the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Midnight Hammer Cheesman.

Chad (00:44.716)

This is Chad, Gold Rush, Sowash.

J.T. O'Donnell (00:47.573)

and I'm JT Fish and Chips O'Donnell.

Joel Cheesman (00:50.894)

And on this episode, job getting jiggy with it, Dice Pink slipping it, and bots unpacking it. Let's do this.

Chad (01:03.074)

So are we ready for some Europe time kids? I'm already pumped, I'm already prepped. I'm good to go. What about you guys?

J.T. O'Donnell (01:10.101)

Very ready, yeah. My first time to London. My first time, or hence the fish and chips. I know, I lived in France for a year, never made it to London. So really, really excited. A bunch of meeting people I've never met before. Scheduled, it's gonna be good time. Yeah.

Chad (01:13.046)

What? First time to London? That's awesome!

Joel Cheesman (01:23.298)

That's huge. What are going to see? What's the priority list?

Chad (01:27.48)

Where you going?

J.T. O'Donnell (01:27.681)

Yeah. Yeah. My husband's been planning all of that. There's definitely a couple of things in London downtown to go see Stonehenge is on the list and then we're headed over to Dublin for a bit. So it's going to be a good trip. Yeah, it is. It's like two, two hours by the way. Yeah. It's going to be a day trip for sure. But yeah, he's got the list. The punch list will knock it out. Um, and definitely a lot of downtime, like the pubs that, you know, nobody knows about, you know, we want to do the off the beaten path stuff. Do I like what? Gin like J-I-N?

Joel Cheesman (01:37.038)

Quite a ways from London, Stonehenge is. I'm not sure it's...

Chad (01:37.058)

Nice. It's a minute. Yeah, it's a minute.

Sweet.

Chad (01:51.178)

Always. Yeah. Do you like gin? Gin. D-I-N. Gin is in the, the, the drink. Yeah. The gin, the alcohol. Yes. You're going to love London because they got some great gins. That's for God.

Joel Cheesman (01:52.076)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (01:56.984)

G-G-I-N.

J.T. O'Donnell (02:00.309)

The drink? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

And fish and chips, I've never had, like, I want fish and chips with vinegar on it really badly, so.

Chad (02:11.221)

hell yeah. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. At least once a day.

Joel Cheesman (02:13.048)

Do you or your husband enjoy military war history stuff?

J.T. O'Donnell (02:16.897)

Oh, it's on his list. He's huge. He's a pilot. yeah, he wants to go to Churchill's. Yep, the Churchill's War, the thing where he would wear it. Yep, that's on the list.

Joel Cheesman (02:21.154)

Definitely go to the war museum or military museum. The Churchill's, yeah, the Churchill's, that's okay. So you got all that covered. Yeah, that's a highlight for me, for sure.

Chad (02:23.788)

Yeah.

Chad (02:29.122)

That one is sweet. That is sweet. Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (02:34.579)

He's got that all covered. I am seriously just a tag along. So, it's all good.

Chad (02:36.088)

it's sweet, it's sweet.

Joel Cheesman (02:39.086)

Well, it's, your first in London. It's going to be my first, uh, in Berlin. So I'm pretty, pretty excited about that. Taken a one young coal cheeseman, uh, 18 year old now adult coal cheeseman and we're, um, yeah, I love, I love the military stuff. So you can imagine the world war two, uh, just history in general. That's in Berlin, lot of the middle ages stuff. So yeah, pretty, pretty pumped about that. So that's great. Chad has no first that I know of. Uh, he, owns Europe.

Chad (02:43.572)

and Berlin. Nice.

Chad (02:50.433)

He's back.

Chad (03:03.608)

Sweet. No, I've never been, I've never been to Brighton yet, which is where my daughter lives. So we're actually going to go and spend a few days in Brighton. We're going to, leaving next week. Gonna land in Gatwick, spend some time in, in Brighton, uh, see some friends, just do some stuff and do some exploring. Then we're going to go see Hamilton in London. Uh, we've only seen it once before. Uh, but

J.T. O'Donnell (03:07.2)

He does own Europe.

Chad (03:30.328)

We're going to see it in London. Got to see it in London. I mean, King George, come on. Then obviously, Nebworth for the GL 100 and Wreckfest and whatnot. But yeah, should be fun. Should be fun.

J.T. O'Donnell (03:40.683)

Wait, are they gonna do it with American accents? I gotta know. No, seriously, don't you like, that's not authentic if it's not with American accents.

Joel Cheesman (03:41.07)

That won't, that.

Chad (03:44.532)

I don't know. I don't know. I'm ready though. Well, I mean, it's,

Joel Cheesman (03:44.652)

Should.

Joel Cheesman (03:49.952)

It's not the famous, I don't know Broadway for shit, but there's a famous, the guy who wrote it. Yeah, you know who he is. Yeah, Miranda. And then there's a couple other actors. They won't be in this, the London presentation, will they? Okay, that'd be cool. London feels big enough that they could, but.

Chad (03:54.114)

Mm.

J.T. O'Donnell (03:56.565)

Lin.

Chad (03:58.113)

Miranda, yeah.

Chad (04:04.8)

No, I don't think so. I don't think so, yeah.

Oh yeah, London's big. London's big. Pretty excited though. And we're all going to be, all of us are going to be in London and the UK, at least at the same time. So it's going to be, I don't know, the place might implode. I don't know.

J.T. O'Donnell (04:23.045)

Lots of photos. Yeah. Insane.

Joel Cheesman (04:23.394)

The whole team is gonna be at Wreckfest, right? All right, Mo, obviously, Emmy owns that town. So yeah, get ready for the selfies, everybody. Get ready for the selfies. But until then.

Chad (04:30.235)

Hahaha!

J.T. O'Donnell (04:34.271)

Hmm? Mm-hmm.

Chad (04:34.481)

Excellent. yeah, well, yes.

Joel Cheesman (04:39.534)

All right, guys, we haven't covered only fans in a while. I'm getting a little, little, little lonely, almost as a, United States of lonely fans, a new survey came out and we finally know which states love them. Some only fans. Here's your top five in order from five to one, Iowa, Illinois, Colorado, Nevada, and West Virginia at the number one spot. So these.

Chad (04:42.008)

Yeah.

Chad (05:06.636)

Big surprise.

Joel Cheesman (05:07.79)

This is based on per capita and a West Virginia per 10,000 residents spends $116,000 a year on only fans. Now you're, you're bottom, your bottom, your bottom five case. You're case you're wondering, uh, is Louisiana, Arkansas, Alabama, Alaska. And last is Mississippi, which I thought was interesting. Yeah. So that's interesting. Now West.

Chad (05:09.868)

Yeah, makes sense.

Chad (05:19.138)

Holy fuck. Yeah.

Chad (05:32.78)

Yeah, they don't have they don't have bandwidth in those states.

Joel Cheesman (05:36.974)

West Virginia is not exactly, you know, uh, that's standard for, for high tech. I don't know. It's kind of weird that that was, that was the list. Now, uh, roughly 50 % are married and it's roughly 80, 20 men paying versus women. So 20 % of women, uh, 50 % of married people and West Virginia loves them. Some only fans. So a shout out to, to only fans, everybody.

Chad (05:42.402)

Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (05:45.025)

per capita.

Chad (05:48.088)

okay.

J.T. O'Donnell (05:48.097)

Mm-hmm.

meant to fit.

Chad (05:53.356)

Go faker. Makes sense.

J.T. O'Donnell (06:00.147)

Love it.

Chad (06:04.354)

Beautiful. Well, my shout out is to our friend over at Marriott, Megan Radigan, and many ETA practitioners who aren't going to fall for the banana in the tailpipe that Indeed is trying to give them. That's right. So go ahead and roll that beautiful bean footage.

Joel Cheesman (06:10.798)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (07:54.306)

So again, shout out to all those TA leaders like Megan who aren't falling for the indeed and appcast banana in the disposition tailpipe. Don't allow them to have access to your data guys. That's just dumb. That's just dumb.

Joel Cheesman (08:10.536)

How intrusive is my voice? my, uh-huh, yeah. What Neanderthal is on this interview? Jesus Christ.

Chad (08:18.36)

You're just now finding that out? Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (08:19.915)

You got like a split second. I didn't even know you were there until they just threw a split second. I've been there.

Joel Cheesman (08:23.918)

Chad (08:25.341)

Aww. Hit it, JT.

Joel Cheesman (08:29.24)

What you got, JT?

J.T. O'Donnell (08:31.009)

So my shout out is to Mira Murati, ex CTO of OpenAI, who went out and said, you know, I don't have a product. I have an idea. I don't have anything put together. Want to give me some money? And they were like, yeah, sure. Here's $28 million and we'll value you at 10 billion. She has no product. There's nothing. There's an idea. She's Avicii's dream, apparently. Right. You know, let's I mean, what? I mean.

Chad (08:36.696)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (08:53.9)

Yeah, I, yeah, yeah. Wow.

Joel Cheesman (09:00.622)

Well, Zuckerberg's given out $100 million checks to anybody that's an employee at OpenAI. So I mean, hey, you know.

J.T. O'Donnell (09:03.317)

Right, just to steal you. That's what it is, right? Like, let's...

Chad (09:05.4)

This is two billion. He has no idea yet. And again, I think it's very apparent that Mira is an amazing talent. Don't get me wrong. But in the rush to super intelligence, Joel, I think it's time for a history lesson. think it's time for history. Yep. So kids, let's talk about pets.com.

J.T. O'Donnell (09:13.682)

No question.

Joel Cheesman (09:21.131)

what? History lesson.

Chad (09:29.438)

November of 1998, the world was starting to wake up to the prospect of doing business and expanding current business models on this thing they call the Internet with companies like Yahoo, Amazon, Netscape, eBay, Google rising to prominence. seemed like a gold rush for businesses who wanted to dramatically expand their TAM and start selling products state by state or even country by country. Right. The problem was this was a deceptively promised

market, right? It was totally deceptive. You couldn't just start up a website and then orders would start flowing. Now in the case of Pets.com, you had to change market behavior, which didn't happen overnight, understand product pricing, coupons are the bane of any business, logistics, warehouses, they had one, it was in San Francisco, that's not great, shipping costs, much higher than they thought, tech costs, had to buy server farms, that's right kids, we didn't have the cloud, labor overhead,

advertising, they had to pay for that fucking sock puppet. My point is that the dot com gold rush was rushed, right? Much like today, everybody wants AI. But I just read an article that Microsoft can't sell copilot subscriptions because everyone is used to and likes chat GPT. So Microsoft has a product. It's AI. But what about the current market behavior and saturation? Right. So I believe

This AI gold rush is much like the dot com gold rush, which turned into a bust. It's too rushed and money is being thrown around for one reason. FOMO. Everybody's got the FOMO and the fear of missing out on another open AI. So that's my two cents on a history lesson, kids.

Joel Cheesman (11:20.344)

I love that history. Listen, and that has been proven through many, many industries, cars, trains, throughout history. yeah, by the way, it's, it's now super intelligence and not AGI like that's hasay. So we're all going to say super intelligence from now on. And by the way, I, understand, as I understand it, Zuckerberg has gotten four open AI folks to take him up on that. Not sure. I, I've, what I've, what I've heard is for four open AI folks have taken him.

J.T. O'Donnell (11:24.075)

great.

Chad (11:31.084)

Yeah. Yeah.

super intelligence, something new.

J.T. O'Donnell (11:35.531)

superintelligent.

J.T. O'Donnell (11:39.553)

100 million a piece, so he's up to almost half a billion. Sweet.

Joel Cheesman (11:49.526)

him up on whatever offer is going on.

Chad (11:50.232)

We should buy jazzhands.ai because I think that would be the best.

J.T. O'Donnell (11:54.283)

I like that. I like that.

Joel Cheesman (11:55.352)

By the way, there's a, there's a, there's a documentary called startup.com that I'm sure is somewhere on the streaming services. that's a really cool, like late nineties startup story about all the stuff you're talking about. The rise, the crash and burn, you'll laugh, you'll cry. it's, it's all good. All good.

Chad (12:11.64)

Yes, of course.

J.T. O'Donnell (12:13.013)

Can I? Can I have one more quick shout out? All right. So my two daughters begged me, begged me, begged me to watch this show Love Island this season. I went in kicking and screaming. But the first time I heard it, I was like, Steven, you're Steven that does all your sound overs. I was like, he's he's the speaker of Love Island. my gosh. Because the guy does no, no. And he says all this stuff. And I was like, I know this guy.

Joel Cheesman (12:15.768)

Course.

Chad (12:21.757)

Jesus.

Chad (12:33.016)

Wait a minute, he's doing side gigs?

J.T. O'Donnell (12:41.611)

I know him already. He does the shout outs on the podcast of mine. So if you listen to Love Island, you know what I'm talking about right now with that.

Chad (12:44.984)

I didn't know that he was doing voiceovers for others.

Joel Cheesman (12:50.466)

Sounds almost as good as...

Chad (12:55.397)

yeah. Tell us what you can get.

J.T. O'Donnell (12:56.705)

Speaking of free stuff, I know I'm-

Joel Cheesman (12:56.76)

By the way, free shout outs, shout outs are sponsored by our friends at Kiara. That's right, Kiara. is text recruiting made affordable and simple. Now let's get to free stuff.

Chad (13:01.656)

J.T. O'Donnell (13:09.141)

can't believe they're letting me do this again, everybody, but here we go. There's amazing free stuff as always. You cannot win if you don't play. Let's make sure you go to the right place. That would be Chadcheese, no and in between, .com forward slash free. Chadcheese.com forward slash free. Okay, now that I've done that correctly, let's start with the whiskey. The talent tech experts over at Van Hac, some sweet, whiskey is coming your way. If you don't like whiskey, then you might win bourbon barrel aged syrup. Maybe you want to have the booze in with your pancuk.

Chad (13:12.352)

yeah.

Chad (13:32.982)

Chicken cock.

Chad (13:36.92)

you

J.T. O'Donnell (13:40.737)

Those are the Bob and Doug McKenzie over at Kiora. Thank you for that little shout out there. T-shirts, I can vouch the t-shirts are super soft, super comfortable. You can also cut them up and use them as rags. I'm just kidding. The red shoe wearing weirdos over at Aaron app are providing those. They're fantastic. Craft beer. I mean, if you like beer, that's awesome. Cause you're going to get it from the job data geeks at Aspen tech labs. And of course the best one is always safe for last. If it's your birthday, it's rum with plum.

Chad (13:48.653)

Mmm.

Chad (14:10.486)

Gotta go to ChadCheese.com slash free or you cannot win. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (14:17.678)

That's right, kids. Celebrating another trip around the sun for Lees Cuevas, Chad Mattson, Megan Maker, Deb Linsley, Joshua Tarotsenzi, Tommy Menser, Brock Magnus, Maria Colacurtio, Jal Steven, Joel Keene, Scott Eichner, Sarah Holder, Adam Wardlow, Weren Tit-Gen, Paul DeBittagenis, China Gorman, Josh Akers, and Kyle Lagunas.

Chad (14:32.343)

yeah.

Chad (14:40.172)

Excuse me.

Joel Cheesman (14:47.808)

And just, just for chat, it's also Ariana Ariana grande's birthday this week and space balls celebrates a birthday, looking for space balls to coming out. Yeah. Which is guaranteed to be a total downer because every time they do this, it's never good. It's never good. It's never good. But yes. Yes. I, yeah, sometimes it works. Sometimes it works most of the time.

Chad (14:52.254)

very nice.

Chad (14:57.036)

and they've got Spaceballs 2 that's coming out. Yes.

J.T. O'Donnell (15:04.84)

Ever is good.

Chad (15:06.316)

I don't know, Naked Gun 2 looks pretty good by the way. It does look good. Liam Neeson? Yeah. Sometimes it works. Liam Neeson? Yeah. No, he's got a certain, he's got a special set of skills that he's gonna use.

J.T. O'Donnell (15:14.547)

Is he still alive? Is he going to be in it? Liam Neeson? Naked gun too? Not like the joke.

Joel Cheesman (15:17.944)

Yeah, he's...

Joel Cheesman (15:25.484)

I mean, the scene where they're like honoring their dads and the one dad is OJ and they're like, no. So yeah, if they can poke fun at OJ, then I'm down. I'm down.

Chad (15:30.572)

Yes. Yeah. Hey,

How can you not poke fun out of OJ? Well, no, we are leaving. We're leaving for the UK. We just talked about this, Joel. Travel sponsored by Shaker Recruitment Marketing.

That's right, Wreckfest UK and Nebworth, July 10th. If you don't have your tickets, get your goddamn tickets, people. This is the place to be. This is the place to go. The Chad and Cheese are gonna be on the disrupt stage with Steven, favorite Scott McGrath, JT and Mo, and Emmy's even gonna have her own stage to herself, at least for half a day. You gotta go to the UK, get Nebworth, just go to Wreckfest.com. Joel, I also have a special request. Jamie said he's out of chicken cocks.

So he's asking if you can help a brother up.

Joel Cheesman (16:24.75)

I'll see what I can do. may have to take care of him in Nashville. I don't know. I may have to give him a year's supply. It's a lot to go to Berlin and yeah, customs and all that shit. So we'll see what we can do for our friend.

Chad (16:26.41)

Okay. Okay. Yeah, I might have to wait till Nashville. You'll get it.

J.T. O'Donnell (16:30.177)

That's a lot to drag, That's a lot to drag.

Chad (16:34.518)

It probably wouldn't make it. That's the problem.

J.T. O'Donnell (16:39.849)

chat. Why is there only a third left in this bottle as a gift?

Chad (16:39.937)

Okay.

Chad (16:43.808)

Yeah, you'd be lucky to get any to be quite frank.

J.T. O'Donnell (16:49.281)

You

Joel Cheesman (16:51.982)

All right, guys. Career builder plus monster is reportedly selling its job board business to job get and its media and government services businesses to Valnet Inc. And Valsoft corporation respectively. The company has initiated a voluntary chapter 11 bankruptcy process to maximize value and preserve jobs. Haha. That's a good one. The sales are expected to close in the coming weeks. Subject to court approval, Chad.

your thoughts on the acquisition.

Chad (17:23.862)

Yeah, I made a comment this week on LinkedIn that JobGit seems to be buying up as many distressed assets as possible, like Snagajob, Workin', Hero's Jobs, and now the Monster and Career Builder job board business. It's kind of like the island of misfit toys over there. But the most logical question is why? Why would JobGit buy? And I mean, if they're buying the revenue portfolio, it's really a stopgap solution at best. I mean, yeah.

It will artificially increase the revenues and make burn look a little bit more manageable. But these are majorly distressed assets that took money to operate. And I doubt JobGet will be growing headcount in burn to do that. I I really want to see them do something with this. So I'm hoping to see their official statement soon so we can have some fun with it. Now down to the brass tacks that I think is most important.

This from the official form 201, which is the voluntary petition for non-individuals filing for bankruptcy. That's right. That's chapter 11 kids. Companies involved, Zen, JV, Monster Worldwide, FastWeb, Monster Government Solutions, Camaro, Acquisition, CareerBuilder, CareerBuilder Government Solutions. There are a shit ton of companies here that are a part of this bankruptcy. CareerBuilder France Holdings and Military Advantage.

Here's the important part. Listen up. The unsecure creditors, the people who are owed money. That's right. Career Builder Monster owes Jobverse, who's their agency of record, $2.7 million. Text Kernel, $2.2 million. They owe Google $1.9 million. Tal Roo, they owe Tal Roo $1.7 million. And just a little speculation here.

That might be why Thad's gone. I would hate to hear that, but $1.7 million, that could take a chunk out of anybody's ass at TauRu. JobGit, $1.5 million. So think about that. JobGit's looking to actually negotiate possibly discount on price because you already owe me $1.5 million, motherfuckers. AppCast is owed $900,000. JobCase, $700,000.

J.T. O'Donnell (19:29.387)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (19:42.478)

Mm-hmm.

J.T. O'Donnell (19:42.657)

I'm gonna...

Chad (19:48.536)

Brazen the online job fair people five hundred and ten thousand recruitix 438 next little over four hundred thousand Jovio 250,000 aim well 250,000 so many In our space mainly on the recruitment marketing side of the house They are owed

J.T. O'Donnell (20:04.865)

millions.

Chad (20:12.148)

shit tons of cash. But let's be clear, at the front of the line with their hands out, much like Oliver Twist, will be ronstad. And they are secure debt, right? So they're going to get their money before any of these guys get.

J.T. O'Donnell (20:25.381)

and

Chad (20:26.986)

Apollo is insulated from this mess and many companies in our industry who provided services that I just mentioned to Monster Plus Career Builder could get totally fucked. Tune of millions. This is the roulette game you play when you're dealing with VC who have bought a mature company and are selling it for parts when they believe they're down to the rotting carpet carcass. They stop paying their bills.

J.T. O'Donnell (20:37.59)

Great.

J.T. O'Donnell (20:54.987)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (20:55.128)

and their vendors are the one holding the bag. So CareerBuilder and Monster, top 30 unsecured creditors are owed $25.5 million. That's just the top 30. Unsecured creditors are likely to retrieve, and this is just a little research that I did, they're likely to retrieve anywhere from 0 % to 50 % of what they're owed while a public... Possibly.

while Apollo sits on a pile of fucking cash. So we all know it, the system's fucked, but when you work with VC, this is the kind of shit that happens and I fucking hate it, especially for all those companies that I mentioned. That just hurts. You do a good job and you get fucked and that's not cool.

J.T. O'Donnell (21:28.779)

Get a shield.

Joel Cheesman (21:29.112)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (21:38.318)

you

J.T. O'Donnell (21:38.613)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (21:47.702)

JT, it looks like you got something to say.

J.T. O'Donnell (21:50.399)

No, I mean, it's just, shame on you, you know, just to have that. And I, all those companies you mentioned, right? That's not a small amount to write off on your receivables. That's huge, you know, that's going to trickle down to your people. You're going to end up seeing cuts and layoffs and restructurings all because of this, you know, and like you said, versus those ones that have the security and are going to recoup probably most of their money, right? If not all of it, it's, it's, it's sick to watch. It really is.

Chad (21:58.68)

no.

Joel Cheesman (22:21.25)

Yeah, right down galore. so a couple of things on this. so in the, in the news, the report that I saw, it said that they were expected to close in the coming weeks and less better offers were received. like, I'm not, I wouldn't be shocked if they release this to somebody to say like, Hey, let's see if we can get some other fish to bite. Cause I still think there should be some.

Chad (22:37.132)

Yeah, sure.

Joel Cheesman (22:47.214)

international companies that should be interested in this to like get a foothold in America. I did not see job get coming at all. Like they would have been way down on the list of potential acquirers, even though they have acquired snag a job and heroes jobs and season. Some of the ones that you're talking about. Uh, mean, they've only re they've received $55 ish million, uh, job get has, which is nothing to sneeze at. But when we're talking about buying companies that used to be valued at $8 billion, uh,

the hell job get got enough money. Uh, I don't know if was creditors or got some more money for a series, like they're going to announce a series, uh, see, guess beer, see, uh, down the line, but I wouldn't be shocked if job get doesn't do get this and somebody comes in late and makes a better offer. We'll see. We'll see.

J.T. O'Donnell (23:32.129)

I know in the industry, this nameless came to me and said they think it's a great idea that Job gets buying them, that because they think they know something that none of us do about Google search. SEO is tanking right now. Everybody's using AI. Google's scrambling to figure out how to be relevant as it's dropping. So that's why I'm not naming the person. I don't want to out them. They think they're hedging their bets, and that Google's going to come out with something magical. And now all of sudden, you've grabbed all that domain.

Chad (23:46.68)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (23:49.568)

Your friend thinks JobGet has the secret formula to SEO?

Chad (23:53.093)

As you know.

J.T. O'Donnell (24:02.177)

and I need all those pages, all that domain, and they're gonna be able to turn around and do something incredible and get it into AI searches. And that's how they're gonna be, that's what I was told. But again, that is a moving target right now, what you're gonna do with SEO.

Joel Cheesman (24:12.302)

Okay. So they, they got a banana in the tailpipe, a secret plan. So we'll see. the number, the math isn't math thing for me, but we'll see. We'll see the number two is if this deal does happen, job get needs to trash the name immediately unless there is so much equity in SEO, which I don't see it when I do searches, kind of search around monster. This monster should become every brand that job get has acquired.

J.T. O'Donnell (24:22.271)

I agree.

Chad (24:26.284)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (24:40.75)

That's just my two cents. Monster is still a good brand. It's great URL. Like it's great for advertising and branding. Like job, get trashed the name. It sucks. I still say job, get instead of our get job instead of the job. Like I can't even figure it out and I live this shit. So change the name. That's number number two and number three. Come on, man. If they get this done, go buy a zip recruiter, go by zip recruiter. Finally, somebody, somebody has to do it. Somebody has to make me happy and buy a zipper.

J.T. O'Donnell (25:07.649)

Well, I mean, if they've got that much lying around, I got a little company website called Work It Daily. Great domain name, great SEO. Call me up, you know. Everything's for sale, if you know what I mean. Bring it on.

Joel Cheesman (25:15.126)

Yeah, yeah.

Chad (25:15.574)

Talk about SEO, right? Talk about SEO. Yeah, that's right. I mean, the trust, the time and trust that CareerBuilder and Monster have are huge, right, from an SEO standpoint. I mean, they've been around since the, or at least Monster's been around since the mid-90s. CareerBuilder, I mean, evolved out of Headhunter.net, but still had huge traffic, great trust, that type of thing. So, I mean, yeah, could you do something with it? Possibly, but look what...

You know, look at what Indeed did with Simply Hired and everything that they've done. I mean, they've literally just mirrored to try to game SEO. I don't think Google's buying into that anymore. Again, they're not.

Joel Cheesman (25:53.838)

I'm not saying it's a new day for monster and watch out world because they're cooking with gas. I'm just saying like, if you're buying this asset, your name should be monster. And, just hell they're relaunching Chi-Chi's for God's sakes. You've probably seen this, right? They can relaunch Chi-Chi's Mexican. they can relaunch monster, for sure. So, yeah, I. But look, I mean, history lesson, you know, you can pick up these clearance rack.

Chad (25:56.792)

Yeah. I don't know. No.

Chad (26:07.032)

Ha

Chad (26:15.766)

Leave it to Cheeseman to know that, that CheeChees is coming back.

J.T. O'Donnell (26:18.718)

at that.

Joel Cheesman (26:22.04)

TJ Maxx sales as companies falter and go out of business. mean, like, we, Chad, we listened to pivot, I think pretty, pretty frequently. And, professor Galloway talks about back in the day, they used to buy yellow pages. And the thing is those businesses stay profitable for a long, long time. And if you can just buy them, cut everybody out, you can just keep adding money to the bottom line. Now these are inevitably dying businesses, but if you can keep ahead of the grim reaper.

J.T. O'Donnell (26:26.037)

and the research of the brand.

Joel Cheesman (26:49.988)

you know, long enough, then you can get, you know, some money back from what you invest. long shot. We'll see what happens, but yeah, that those, those would be my takes on what's going on. And I didn't see this one coming at all. This one escalated very quickly for me.

Chad (27:04.12)

Well, that's because we didn't know how much debt they had, right? And we didn't know that JobGet was one of the bigger debtors, right? So I mean, that makes it a little bit easier to provide some leverage to prospectively get some of those assets. So yeah, I mean, that was shit that we didn't know. But again, there are big, big names that are on that list. And again, TexKernel, which is now owned by Bullhorn, is owed 2.2 million.

J.T. O'Donnell (27:07.157)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (27:10.604)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (27:17.08)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (27:31.278)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (27:32.981)

And it's now exposed, right? So now everybody knows those companies allowed that debt to ring up like that and sit like that on the books for how long, right? And it's sitting there. So, you know.

Joel Cheesman (27:42.38)

Yeah. And I'm not a bankruptcy lawyer, but I'm guessing a lot of those companies are screwed. They'll get a little bit back, but I'm guessing the laws will be unfavorable for them.

Chad (27:51.274)

Yeah, think well, I think job get this might be a good deal for them because they'll get a write off. Number one, they'll get a write off. Plus, they'll also leverage and negotiate a much better price for the assets that they're getting. But again, there's no reason to run the tech. You don't want to you don't want to push your head count up, right? I mean, this is about trying not to build burn. And I don't know how you do that with all of the assets that they just bought that to me is going to be hard. It's gonna be hard to manage that.

J.T. O'Donnell (27:52.095)

I wouldn't expect much back here.

Joel Cheesman (28:11.266)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (28:18.124)

Yeah. It's, also intriguing. Like we'll never know, but, this stuff in our industry trickles down from the top. So if companies aren't paying for those clicks, those companies aren't paying the sites that are giving us the clicks and it sort of filters all the way down. So is this a career builder monster or just that bad, or is nobody getting paid because at the top employers are paying late or they're not playing,

Chad (28:27.416)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (28:46.218)

as quickly as they used to. I'd be curious to know how much of that is employers struggling versus career builder monster just fucking people over.

Chad (28:53.936)

think this is the PE game plan. This is the PE game plan. You suck all the money out. You load it with debt. We just heard of a company in our space who will remain nameless, who is a part of a portfolio company. The PE took huge debt. What did they do with that debt? They split it up within their portfolio. They went to their CEOs and said, guess what? Here's some debt, right?

Joel Cheesman (29:02.648)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (29:07.842)

Yeah, yeah.

Joel Cheesman (29:13.709)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (29:21.474)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (29:22.52)

PE literally, they've been sucking a lot of these amazing companies dry. And again, this is just part of the playbook. It's like, how can we fuck the system and go into bankruptcy, leave these guys holding the bag while we're sitting on our pile of cash while Apollo is insulated from it, which is total bullshit.

Joel Cheesman (29:45.486)

All right guys if you haven't subscribed to our YouTube channel we are just as good-looking as our voices and Be sure to subscribe at youtube.com backslash at Chad cheese. We'll be right

Chad (29:52.823)

Yeah

Joel Cheesman (30:01.486)

All right. From one job board success story to another, it's a bloodbath quote unquote at DICE according to trusted sources. DICE allegedly let go of a hundred plus employees focused on sales, account management, engineering, and product positions, including some who had been at the company for over 20 years. Chad, you got some insight on this. What are your thoughts?

Chad (30:26.072)

So first and foremost, Q4 2024 for Dice revenue was down 14 % year over year. Q1 2025 Dice revenue fell another 18 % year over year. Subscriber renewal rates dropped from about 100%, which people were just paying the bill, right? Which we've seen for years. When they stopped doing that, you know, you have a problem down to around 70%. So about 100 % renewal rate to 70%.

J.T. O'Donnell (30:43.617)

Did you see the doors in?

Chad (30:56.312)

It's the same old story as Monster and Career Builder. It's an innovator's dilemma, which is where an established, successful company fails to adopt new disruptive technologies because they initially don't meet the needs of their existing profitable customer base. It's a great book by Clayton Christensen, by the way, so check that out. What does this mean, though?

Monster and Curbbuilder didn't adopt search engine style job search because their duration based newspaper forward revenue was still strong until it wasn't and indeed kicked them off the top of the mountain. The classic example, which we always talk about is Netflix, who had a solid DVD by mail program, but disrupted their own service when they launched a streaming platform. Netflix understood their business model would get crushed when streaming was adopted by mainstream. So

You either crush the DVD mailing model yourself or somebody else is going to do it for you. So you should do it yourself, which Dice did not do, which Monster and Career Builder did not do. Dice hasn't evolved. They're still mailing DVDs for God sakes because they don't have a leader in charge, Arthur Dart, that is innovative. Thus, a staple in the tech job search industry is circling the drain. And I hate to see this because great employees

get laid off because leaders didn't have the vision or the guts to pivot. And I hope they all find soft landings. mean, this, and I want to also point back to what we saw smart recruiters do. They literally gutted their entire system. Their older ATS, their old style ATS, and they went more toward agentic. Those are the things that you have to do.

in every type of situation with regard to business, you have to be able to look at pretty much skate where the puck's going. And Dice has never done that, unfortunately.

Joel Cheesman (33:02.424)

So Dice has basically become a financial engineering business. What they do is usually around earnings calls, they announce layoffs. So in July of 24, they cut 7 % of their staff. In January of this year, they cut 10%. And now they're allegedly cutting, I guess the numbers will come out eventually, but another group of folks. Wall Street loves it.

Unfortunately, the stock is spiking once more and they've kind of done this in the past. Some firms have actually come out. So one analyst came out and raised the price target for the company between $10 and $13. They're currently trading at about $2.61. So if you're a trader, that's a pretty good upside to the business. They're trading at around 12, 13 % PE ratio.

Which is still pretty low. So the whole point of this business is how can we engineer it so that wall street looks at us from a just strictly numbers business. have split clearance jobs and dice. And by the way, Dice is Dice has been hurting ever since chat GPT and AI started writing code. Right? So you have more job seekers, less jobs out there for a lot of programmers. And now you have the Trump administration gutting government.

So clearance jobs and the people that need those kinds of jobs are less so because there's less opportunities at the government level. you have, you have, you're burning the candle at both ends at Dice. They split those companies again to re-engineer, guess, probably where profit is going. Art is pretty good. He is artful at doing this game and Wall Street and the investors like it. Now the people that he's put in, the president of Dice, his name's Paul Farnsworth. You should go search some videos. He used to be a product guy.

He used to look like me. he became president shaved, got a haircut and looks pretty good. But some of the old videos of him as product guy used to be a plumber, probably a really nice guy. want to party party with Paul. but is he the guy that takes dice to the next level? I don't think so. I think he's a puppet for art to kind of do whatever art says. And I'm sure clearance jobs president is the same way. So this has become just a financial engineering company.

Joel Cheesman (35:24.748)

Nobody wants this job, so art is going to stay where he is for the time being until they take it private and sell it to maybe Apollo or maybe job get soon to be monster.com. We'll see. We'll see.

J.T. O'Donnell (35:36.289)

Look, I just, we know what's happening to job boards across the board. They're dying. The way that that works doesn't work anymore. Job seekers hate them. It's not working anymore. And so it shouldn't surprise us that this is happening to dice, especially when it's tech. When you think about AI's wiped out entire careers. You know, if you go look up the dictionary, the definition of career is something that you work at for a long period of time.

Every job's temporary today. Most of us are, the careers we're going to have in five or six years don't exist yet, but we're certainly not going to be in the same ones. It's evolving. And to know that is to think, how do you cut back your business if it's in something that's as dead as job boards? Stay profitable long enough to reinvent yourself and move in a different direction. I mean, that's the only thing left to do. I think, I hate to say it, so I'm to be an optimist here and say, you watch what happened to career builder and monster.

Joel Cheesman (36:00.738)

Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (36:25.899)

You're seeing what's happening to Dice. If you're a job board listening to this today, you're thinking, how do I come back and really invest in innovation? How do I go find something new in this space? Because it's innovate or die right now, right? The bigger the disruption, the bigger the innovation. I think we're sitting on a very cool opportunity right now. So as we talk about this, I'm excited a year from now when we're talking about things that we're like, wow, that's cool. Didn't see that company. I really believe that that's hopefully where we're going to get out of desperation. People can't keep sitting there.

Joel Cheesman (36:47.768)

Mm-hmm.

J.T. O'Donnell (36:52.245)

you know as cash cows and thinking they're going to just keep collecting those big paychecks without innovating. So I hope that forces that and that we you know we see that kind of change because we need it. We really do need it. I mean how you get jobs is different.

Joel Cheesman (37:02.318)

They can't be public. They can't be public and do that. If they go private, I agree with you, but there's no way, there's maybe.

J.T. O'Donnell (37:08.085)

Fair? Then maybe that's what you do. That's my point. Like, already. know, they used to say, like, amputate by the inch. Let's be done with it. You know, I hate to say it, but that's what they're all doing. That's like, now that's the fastest way to die is amputate by the inch. Get it done. And I'm, you know, it stinks, but you got to do it.

Chad (37:08.354)

Yeah.

Chad (37:18.232)

Oof.

Chad (37:27.52)

Yeah, so the job boards that are doing well, right, they are evolving. They're becoming something entirely different, right? And they're becoming niche and they're focusing on quality. And I think that's the big key is we went to Indeed, which was broad based, monster broad based, career builder broad based. You can go there for anything, right? Then you can't build communities that way, right? Because you're just not good at anything. You try to do everything, you're not good at anything, right?

so you take a look at like tech sectors or financial sectors or things like that. And then you go niche. Now the problem was dice was already there. Niche. The problem was though, they didn't evolve. They just continued to be a job board. That was it. You have to go toward quality. In that case, they just got flanked by, you know, hack a job, hacker rank. I mean, all these different, all these different coding, systems. Yeah. Get hub. They just got out flanked.

Joel Cheesman (38:22.35)

GitHub, yeah.

Chad (38:26.646)

And they had an opportunity, shit, a decade ago to make this happen, but they didn't. Again, it's the innovator's dilemma. So I think job boards out there have a great opportunity to focus on quality.

J.T. O'Donnell (38:40.449)

If it's okay for me to say, so I'm an advisor to JobLeap, Josh Gample and crew, former Recruitix. And when they came to me, I said, the only way we're going to do this is if you create a job shopping experience. Nobody has paid attention to the job seeker. Let's create a user experience. And we pushed back hard on their development team. And when we launched a month ago, my job seekers are obsessed with it because they come in, it asks them a few questions. It starts to show them jobs and they literally start just with thumbs up, thumbs down. Is this, was this what you're looking for? And then we give them a scorecard.

Chad (38:44.192)

Yeah, yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (39:09.141)

And it says, based on what you're looking for, these are the real jobs that are out there. And these are the ones that you're 80 % are better match for. And these are 70%. Don't apply. Like we're forcing them to understand what the reality of the market is, what's available. But here's where it gets amazing to them. Let's say I'm a job that I'm a 90 % match for. I click on it. It immediately goes out, grabs everything you need to know about the company. Right? No more going to Glassdoor. No more going to sit. all in one spot. It gives you the job description. And then there's an AI agent to have a conversation with. So what we taught it to do, really simple, is say, all right.

Now create a job matching matrix. Map out exactly how my experience is a fit for all the major requirements of this job so that I can throw it in a document and send it to a recruiter. Recruiters are obsessed with this now because instead of trying to understand your resume or your LinkedIn profile, you're literally saying, here are the requirements of job and here's literally quantifiably how I'm a fit. Job seekers are obsessed. This takes all the guesswork out for them. They know the jobs are real and they understand why they should or shouldn't apply. And that's...

That's the future. That's the user experience that should have been happening quite frankly years ago, you know, but when you're, when you're trying to make money off the, off the companies and you know, through clicks, I get it. You care more about what's happening on that side than you do. But when you understand and do what job lead did, and we literally call it, if you guys want to go play around with it, it's amazing work at daily.jobleap.ai. It's the job shopping tool. You will be blown away by the, and they are obsessed. Like they just flip because they feel empowered. They understand.

And that's what's been the problem all along, right? Versus applying blindly, getting ghosted. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Chad (40:36.354)

Well, and you're teaching the AI too. You're teaching the AI, not to mention you got a guy like Josh Gample, who has been in this space for a very long time, incredibly smart dude and an operator. So he totally gets it. A lot of this has to do with the founder, right? And how they did the research, like through you, to be able to really understand what the market wants.

J.T. O'Donnell (40:42.729)

Amazing.

J.T. O'Donnell (40:55.329)

Yeah, months, we worked on this for months. They would, we killed so many ideas in order to make sure it was job seeker first and it's paying off.

Joel Cheesman (41:06.528)

Why in the world dice 15 years ago didn't create a community for developers to like share code and get badges and whatever and become that is one of the great mistakes in our industry because they were in the perfect spot to do that.

Chad (41:24.728)

agreed.

Joel Cheesman (41:26.444)

All right, guys, let's go from that to Tesla and automation and truck. In case you missed it, Tesla's robo taxi service launched in Austin this week with a small invite only fleet of about 10 to 20 model wise, charging a flat $4 and 20 cent per ride. weed aficionados will appreciate the four 20. the debut was a mixed bag that wasn't without hiccups.

On the other side, little less hiccupy, the Wall Street Journal dropped a story saying companies like Walmart are deploying robots such as Boston Dynamics Stretch, which can unload 580 boxes per hour, nearly double a human being's pace. Chad, your thoughts on all the automation going on this week.

Chad (42:15.126)

Last thing I want is my driver, whether it's AI, autonomous or a human on weed. I don't mind that they do it. I just don't want them driving me around that way. I did truly. I just hope Zooks and Waymo beats the shit out of Tesla. I mean, I did. That's that's just my one wish. The thing that I really liked, I watched some of the videos around the loading and unloading the robots. And it is amazing because they've got they've got

Joel Cheesman (42:40.44)

Yep.

Chad (42:44.396)

this little accordion style conveyor belt that follows them, right? So it just goes to the ramp, goes on and then just starts doing the job. And you said this does twice the amount of what a human can do. and we're just getting started. This is gonna get faster. It's gonna get more efficient. Not to mention these jobs suck. If you've ever unloaded a truck before, and I have, you know it sucks. It fucking sucks.

A robot do it? Okay, great. But what can you do with those people as opposed to just doing loading and unloading? That's the big question. So yeah, mean, shitty jobs. Will it create other jobs? No clue. That's some of the some of the biggest questions that are still up in the air today.

Joel Cheesman (43:34.648)

So let's look at a quick video of a Tesla highlighted by one of the, I think, Tesla influencers.

Chad (43:39.234)

Jesus.

Joel Cheesman (44:00.119)

You

Chad (44:03.864)

420.

Chad (44:54.104)

Shit.

Joel Cheesman (45:12.663)

you

Chad (45:28.919)

fuck

Chad (46:11.294)

I'm about ready to puke. Jesus. Fucking jazz hands, boy.

Joel Cheesman (46:12.256)

Yeah, right. look, cars, cars suck. they're bad. They're bad to own. insurance sucks. You got to house these things and basically an extra room in your house in a garage. I am all here for the autonomous driving. I am all here for Waymo zoeks. Tesla will get this right. Eventually. I have an eight year old kid.

I hope that he grows up in a world where he doesn't have to own a car if he doesn't want to, that these cars will take you wherever you want to go. They'll show up wherever you worry, where you are. you'd have to buy insurance. You have to buy the car. Like that's that experience sucks as well. So I'm all down for the automated car, like trend. And I've been in a way Mo, I've been in a way Mo in a circular driveway that it just kept doing circles until I had to call like,

The headquarters and somebody's like, Oh, what's going on? Like I am just looping. And they had, they probably had some guy with a steering wheel saying like, okay, I'm going to take over the car and take it out. So we're really, we're really hard on these companies, but they are doing miracle work. Like think about when you were a kid, if you saw this stuff, you would think it was mind blowing. And it really is like, they'll get some of the stuff fixed. Uh, so I'm all here for the autonomous car as far as jobs. It's going to disrupt a whole lot of jobs.

drivers, taxis, trucking will be eventually in this realm. So from a jobs perspective, it's going to have huge, huge impact on the, on the automated, truck unloading or unloading robot. That is really the call it the Holy grail of, of automation. Like, and I've been, I spent a short time at UPS one summer and these literally human beings go in these containers.

And they're lifting basically up to 70 pound boxes and putting them on conveyor belts. So imagine doing that for three, four, five, six hours. It's incredibly hard. People get injured. companies got to pay a lot of money for people that are out of work, backbreaking stuff. So if robots can do that, I mean, that's a godsend for a lot of companies, as well as being way more productive and getting the shit that we want at our doorstep, much, much quicker than, than we have.

Joel Cheesman (48:24.824)

previously. I'm mostly optimistic about about this news. It will create more jobs around how do you maintain these robots? How do you manage them? They showed one person with like an iPad sort of managing all the, the unloaders. So I'm all for it. I this is, I this was a good news week for automation.

J.T. O'Donnell (48:43.425)

You know, you mentioned UPS, my husband's been a pilot for UPS for many, years. And way back when he said to me, we won't have pilots one day before all this was coming out. So I think this to me really solidified what he's been talking about for decades, which is the moment a drone or someone else can fly that plane. They won't need us anymore. We'll sit in we'll sit in a sim, you know, in, in Louisville and we'll just fly the plane from there. We won't physically go there back and forth. And I remember thinking, okay, we're really far away from that Eric.

We're not like to your point, we're not. And the same thing, the backbreaking work, you know, the drivers and so yes, it's going to eliminate a lot of jobs, but a lot of good paying jobs. And again, that's we're already seeing that happen in the tech space, right? AI is wiping out these coding jobs. You know, drivers at UPS would retire as millionaires. They were well paid blue collar workers who go in and so you start thinking about all the things that'll wipe out. Those are good paying jobs. Pilots.

make a great living. UPS has been a really good company to my husband, our family, the benefits, but the reality is they're a business. And as this stuff comes along, like any other company, they're going to look to utilize it.

Joel Cheesman (49:53.688)

So these are pilots with planes that just have packages on them. Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (49:56.843)

Cargo, that's what I'm saying. Cargo only, it's not even real people. They'd be the first person that you would have them do the sim with. My husband was the first to say this and he wasn't saying it as any disrespect. He's like, it's coming, JT. It's just coming. But for me now, I really see it. And as a job search career coach, you're wiping out very, very well-paying jobs.

Joel Cheesman (50:17.985)

Yeah. And you got to think, we just talked about UPS layoffs a couple of weeks or months ago. they see this stuff coming. They, they are preparing for this world. and I think that's partly why you're seeing some of those moves. yeah, let's take a quick break and, talk about some in and out burger just in time for lunch. By the way, guys, if you haven't left us a review on, your podcast platform of choice, please do so.

Joel Cheesman (50:48.056)

Guys don't fuck with in and out burger. Okay. They're suing YouTuber Brian Arnett for impersonating an employee and making false claims about the company's food and practices in videos posted online. The lawsuit alleges trademark infringement and business defamation seeking damages and a ban from in and out establishments. Let's take a quick look at one of the videos Mr. Arnett posted about in and out.

Chad (51:04.779)

Idiot.

Chad (52:05.836)

Yeah, I'm out. I'm out.

Joel Cheesman (52:09.664)

I'm headed to Taco Bell. That sounds like a better choice for me right now. So, Chad, what do think about our net and his little, little gag there and in and out's response.

Chad (52:11.381)

Okay.

Chad (52:20.428)

I think he's an idiot. He's an idiot. mean, was the other guy an actor too? would assume so. Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. From a brand standpoint, that's just fucking stupid. mean, yeah, stupid. Don't do it. Influencers can be influencers without trying to do stupid bullshit like that.

Joel Cheesman (52:26.646)

He was in on it. Yeah. There wasn't really a cockroach. Yeah. He was in on that. Don't sue us in and out. We're just showing.

Joel Cheesman (52:45.474)

Yeah. JT, you're somewhat of an influencer whisperer. Like, what are your thoughts on this?

J.T. O'Donnell (52:48.864)

Yeah.

It brings me back to the Dennis Robbins days. Remember how he just got more and more outrageous in order to get like attention and then the hair and like, and you just go and go and go because the addiction's there to try to keep it going. And I think for a lot of influencers, that's where they're at now. I mean, the market is saturated with so many different people playing pranks, doing things, whatever, know, Mr. Beast has paved the way. And so they're all trying to be the next Mr. Beast. And sometimes they're going to make rookie mistakes when they're that young and they don't understand business. They just.

Chad (52:56.652)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (52:56.726)

Yeah, the wedding dress. Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (53:20.705)

I guarantee you when they were making that, they didn't even cross their mind that a company might sue them. Their thought was, we'll just give him, we're giving them eyeballs. We're giving them free, but like they're just, that's when you're that young and you don't understand business. That's what's happening in that moment. So he'll be a powerful lesson to a lot of creators, unfortunately.

Joel Cheesman (53:25.878)

we could get sued by In-N-Out, yeah.

Chad (53:35.538)

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (53:38.478)

I think it'll keep going though. People will still push the envelope and take it to levels that haven't. There's another video where he offers to buy a person's meal that's around $15 and he's like, do you guys take cash? And they say, yeah. And he pulls out a thing of pennies and like dumps it on the counter. The, oh, whatever the manager's like, you got to get out of here. You got to go. yeah, this stuff is pushing. thing that's interesting to me, Chad is like, we've been five years ago, we were talking about Sherwin Williams employees.

J.T. O'Donnell (53:40.481)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (54:07.714)

that we're doing like legitimate social media videos. And now employers have to worry about fake employees making bullshit videos, which is a whole slew of issues that people are going to have. So I don't know where this goes, but employers have to be really aware of people impersonating employees and what that looks like to the outside world. Unlike dad jokes, which we know always looks

Chad (54:09.708)

Yeah, good stuff. Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (54:10.473)

Beautiful, yes.

Chad (54:22.998)

It's fraud.

J.T. O'Donnell (54:34.367)

No, no!

Joel Cheesman (54:37.016)

Positive to the outside world. All right guys. Football is almost here now that basketball season is over. What does broke back mountain and the NFL have in common? What does broke back mountain and the NFL have in common?

Chad (54:39.552)

Always.

Chad (54:56.342)

Yeah, that's probably what it is. Joe, Joe, we don't know how to quit the NF.

Joel Cheesman (55:02.414)

Both, have cowboys who suck.

Chad (55:08.856)

Good call. We out.

Joel Cheesman (55:09.45)

We out, see ya in England!