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2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

Paradox Learns How to Spetz

What a year so far, huh? The world needs a new beacon of hope, and Chad & Cheese are here to fill the void.

On this week's show

  • Paradox learns how to Spetz

  • CareerBuilder does the walk of shame

  • Google Union is not a new band

  • Facebook helps clean your gutters and mow the lawn

  • Albertsons kicks delivery to the curb

  • and Illinois cleans up with weed

Smoke up, Johnny, then pay homage to sponsors Jobvite, Sovren, and JobAdx.

Disability Solutions provides training and development to help your workplace leaders and employees integrate with and value people with disabilities.

INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (22s):

Live from your favorite new Banana Republic, affectionately known as the US of a it's the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joe "banned on Twitter" Cheeseman

Chad (32s):

and I'm Chad "25th amendment" Sowash.

Joel (35s):

And on this week's episode, Spetz or Swallows.

Chad (39s):


Joel (39s):

Facebook goes gig and nerds look to unionize, power to the privileged. Take a break from hoarding your golden Bitcoin. We'll be right back.

SOVREN (49s):

Sovren Parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry, the more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting, that's We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.

Chad (1m 16s):

Yeah. So how's 2021 working out for you?

Joel (1m 19s):

Yeah. Here's to 2022, damn, the dumpster fire just rolled over January 1st and then heads down in the new year. So what are your thoughts? Obviously we have to touch on a little bit. It's such big news, anarchy and America. What are your thoughts?

Chad (1m 34s):

Yeah, I think this is what happens when you allow a bunch of white privileged men who were in governments to incite a fucking riot.

Joel (1m 44s):

Whitey gone wild!

Chad (1m 46s):

That's exactly what's happened here if black lives matter, what a rolled up like those guys, we would had dead people, people in flex cuffs. I mean, overall, Anne Applebaum. She wrote an amazing article in the Atlantic this morning, and it's what Trump and his mob taught the world about America. And she nailed it. I mean, we, we were the bright shining.

Joel (2m 12s):

Beacon on a hill.

Chad (2m 14s):

You know, I talked to people from the EU all the time, all over the world and they're just like, fucking Americans always, always beating your chest. And this is what happens when that's all we do is beat our chest. We need to stop it. We need to be more humble. This shit happens and now we are not the pure democracy, the bright shining Banana Republic on the fucking Hill. I mean, it's fucking crazy.

Joel (2m 40s):

Come on, don't we get a Trump Mulligan, once every 200 years.

Chad (2m 43s):


Joel (2m 43s):

I think that's somewhere in the history books, that we get a Mulligan.

Chad (2m 46s):


Joel (2m 47s):

So yeah, we both talked about sort

Chad (2m 49s):

How many votes did he get?

Joel (2m 51s):

Yeah, I know 71 million. So yeah, you and I, you know, we've been more global than ever before, but the opinions of people around the world are important and we've heard it. I married a damn Canadian so everyday I got to hear about Trump, this and Trump that, so that's fun. My, my 2 cents around this whole thing is like, you know, if you have a democracy Republic, you know, trust and truth seem to be paramount in all of this. And I think truth has gone off the rails.

Chad (3m 21s):

It's not there.

Joel (3m 22s):

You know, having to take a really deep look at social media, you know what Facebook does to be more profitable in the short term while, you know, throwing democracy into the ground, needs to be evaluated because the truth, I literally think the people that stormed the capital believe that they are the revolution, revolutionary war reincarnated. I really believe that they think they have been screwed over that. They are waving the flag. They are Patriots that they're doing the right thing, because I think we all live in two different universes of truth. And I think social media media in general, I mean, I watch Fox and I go, is this what really? And then CNN, like, they're not even on the same page in many cases.

Chad (4m 5s):


Joel (4m 5s):

So truth is really out the door and then trust in terms of who we are as a people, do we trust our institutions? Do we trust, you know, voting literally no trust in our institutions and the rule of law and the democratic process. And like all that stuff needs to needs to be repaired. That was my takeaway from yesterday without trust and truth things just fall apart. You and I are old enough to remember the days of Tom Brokaw's and even, even further back than that with Walter Cronkite, right?

Chad (4m 35s):

Uh, huh. Oh, yeah.

Joel (4m 35s):

Hearing our grandfathers talk about when JFK got shot and Walter Cronkite was the voice of sorta reason, and we all have that one voice and that's totally off the rails. Russia infiltration is a problem. So yeah, shit's fucked up. We look bad in the world. I still believe call me naive. What's right with America, what's wrong with America. Isn't bad enough that it can be fixed with what's right with America. And I have a little bit of faith in Joe Biden, super loved his comments yesterday. He went on TV, like he had a pair, unlike, unlike the other guy down the street and that was really heartening.

Chad (5m 14s):

I'd like to say in pivoting toward the more optimistic yes, Stacey Abrams, you give that woman whatever she wants. She allow her to do the vaccination rollouts, allow her to do whatever it is cause she's going to do it right. She's going to execute and she's going to make shit happen. Right? And that's what we saw in Georgia. We saw a rally of truth. We saw a rally of people who never voted before and mainly I believe have taken a look at the demographics. But I mean, mainly I think it was, was black people. They understand that they do have a voice and they did with Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff.

Chad (5m 56s):

And I think to the whole day was overshadowed. That that topic in itself was overshadowed by the shitstorm of yesterday. But we have to remember that has happened. And hopefully God, please a new day is going to be coming soon. And we can change this shit.

Joel (6m 14s):

Talk about in defense of the long game. I mean, Stacey Abrams seems like a, sort of a overnight success. She's apparently been building this foundation for over a decade. So, you know, these things don't don't happen overnight and hats off to her that she played the long game and is reaping the rewards, you know, years and years hence, hats off to her, for sure.

Chad (6m 35s):

So let's talk about winners!

Joel (6m 37s):

Winners! Winner, winner, winner!. All right. So listeners know about our Pappy's giveaway sponsored by our buddies at Sovren, who we love to no end, we, we did a random drawing. We went to So by the way, if you need to ever pick a winner of something, randomly check out It's what my wife uses for all her science shit. So anyway, so drum roll. We've got Matt O'Donnell!

Chad (7m 3s):


Joel (7m 6s):

People Scout is our first Pappy's winner. Matt, congratulations to you. Our second Pappy's winner goes to Lynn Morton of Tradify hats off to you guys. How great is that? All right. Then our constellation winner bummer. You just get a, a bottle of Blanton's Japanese Export Exclusive.

Chad (7m 27s):

A $500 bottle of Blanton's

Joel (7m 30s):

Yeah. You, you can cry in your DRAM as far as I'm concerned. It goes to Peter Suchi. There you go. Peter at CVS Health. So again, that's Matt O'Donnell, Lynn Morton and Peter Succhi. Hopefully I'm saying that name, right? It's not sucky or Suki are all big winners in our Pappy's Free giveaway. Again, thanks to Sovren. We're hoping that we can get a zoom tasting with everybody.

Chad (7m 56s):


Joel (7m 56s):

Cause we're gonna, we're going to have a drink and celebrate a little bit.

Chad (7m 59s):


Joel (7m 59s):

So big ups to them. We appreciate you guys. And we have more winners. Everybody wins. We're like Oprah on this fucking podcast. We got James Dineen from Recruitix. James is our beer drop sponsored by AdZuna winner. Man, dude is hyped. He is super hyped. He's an IPA drinker. We're getting that out to him now. We're gonna have a zoom tasting with James soon. He's out in California, so hopefully he can be on a beach while we're freezing our asses off here in Indiana. And let us know what life life is really like over some beer. Thanks Adzuna and Sovren. You guys rock the house.

Chad (8m 40s):

Amen. Amen. So a couple of weeks ago actually said that more of us should actually reach out to friends, old friends, new friends, and just have like virtual beer time. Right? Have this cathartic time that you and I enjoyed doing a podcast.

Joel (8m 56s):


Chad (8m 56s):

But, so I was having virtual beers with an old high school buddy who works security in a hospital where we grew up in North central Ohio. And he says, I got vaccinated last week. And I'm like, damn dude, I am so fucking envious right now. He said, yeah, I was number seven in line. And in the medical facility in Mansfield, they have about 2,700 employees. Guess how many people were vaccinated on the first day? Joel?

Joel (9m 25s):

Oh, it's gotta be a hundred percent right?

Chad (9m 27s):

75 people, think about it. Think about it. We see, we see news reports of people lining up, taking selfies, showing their like shot marks and getting excited about getting vaccinated. Nope, not at redneck central, my friend.

Joel (9m 46s):

So my sister manages a senior living center and she got her second shot today. So shout out to my sister for that one. This shit is real. Like she's had an outbreak of 28 people and she's had a super tight facility, an 18 year old who came in, brought it in and it shit spread like wildfire. So glad the vaccine is rolling out so glad that we can save the people that we can. And God damn it, get the shot, man. The people that can get it like Chad and myself were jealous, man. And the fact that you don't want to take it, like what the hell is wrong?

Chad (10m 19s):

So, so the Hill reported in Ohio, 60% of nursing home staff elected not to take the vaccine. What the fuck people, you are the ones taking care of the most susceptible citizens in United States. This to me is a bridge too far. And, and we talked about this last week. This is going to be something that the EEOC has already has already supported. If employers mandate you get that fucking shot before you come back to work, guess what's going to happen, kids. You're going to roll up that goddamn, that fucking sleeve.

Joel (10m 57s):

Yeah. We debate all the time of whether or not employers should require it. Like if any, should require it. It's these folks, senior living centers, healthcare facilities, Lord people, teachers, how about them. Yeah, it's crazy, man. It's going to be a weird year. Let's talk about some news.

Chad (11m 13s):

Event events. I have an events. I have an event, so, okay. Go figure it's virtual because I don't have my shot, but the Recruitment Automation Conference, which is next week, I'm going to be leading a panel of heavy hitting TA pros, Crystal Johnson from EA sports, Trent Cotton from BBVA and Jen Terry newly with Joveo after leaving AT&T after 20 years, we only have 40 minutes. So it's going to be fast and furious. I promise. But check me out on LinkedIn and Twitter for the registration link or go to

Joel (11m 54s):

Those are some heavy hitters, but I guess, I guess every, every baseball team needs a water boy. Right? That's where, that's where you come in. All. That's that's pretty good. That's pretty good. Yeah. Let's get those stories.

Chad (12m 5s):


Joel (12m 6s):

Paradox acquires Spetz, not Spitz that would be much more entertaining. Spencer swallows Paradox knows the answer, they acquired on Israeli startup. It's raised a little less than a million dollars. Founded in 2017. I had never heard of them. I'll be honest and say, I'd never heard of them. And we talked a little bit about chatbots and know a little bit about people who do it. So they're selling, this is an Aqua hire, some smart people that are going to be joining Paradox. They're selling it as a global sort of footprint. They'll be able to serve customers all over the globe, more easily through an Israeli headquarters.

Joel (12m 47s):

They're playing, you know, everyone's giving the standard PR we're excited. This is awesome. Our customers are gonna love it. To me. It feels a little bit like consolidation, a little bit like a small up and coming player maybe, with some smart folks, there wasn't much talk about technology. So I don't know if that played into it at all. I'm guessing not so much. My guess is this was not a big price tag. There was no disclosure on the price, but my guess is knowing, knowing the Paradox leadership is I do they were probably pretty smart and got this guy on the cheap.

Chad (13m 21s):

It's less than a million in funding. And they're in Israel where we've seen companies like ZipRecruiter make large investments in building AI teams, but they did have some, some, a handful of notable brands. But I, I think to be quite Frank it's just another smart move to check the global box when selling to enterprise. iCIMS buys Opening and Easy Recruit, Smart Recruiters by JobPal and Phenom buys Endouble. So I think we're going to be seeing more of this. We're going to see the expansion and this, as we talked about before, I think buying chatbots or Aquahire per se, because they might just trash the tech overall, but being able to have those individuals much like AMS did when they bought, was it Jane or Karen or something like that, that was an Aquahire.

Chad (14m 19s):

And they bill hourly out of it. Right. So, I mean, it's like, let's get those engineers, let's get them where they're at. Let's expand. Let's check that global box and let's start building shit under the Paradox brand. And guess what? You get a big payday or a good payday.

Joel (14m 36s):

Yeah. Well, first of all, I love that they highlighted SodaStream as one of their clients because it was news to me that Soda Stream was still around. So that was nice. And secondly, you know, when you build these technologies and you've raised a million dollars and you look around and see, Oh, they've raised 40, they 50, like at some point you go, I'm bringing a squirt gun to a Howitzer fight and you say I better get and the right on the right playground and get the right partners to actually make my business viable. So I don't, you know, I made light of like discount shopping, but there may have been a real original effort by Spetz to say, look, we don't want to raise the money, or we don't want to focus on that. We know that we need more resources to be competitive.

Joel (15m 16s):

Let's call up, you know, some of the players that we, that we respect and see if we can get a deal done. And maybe that's what happened there.

Chad (15m 23s):

Yeah. Pepsi owns SodaStream by the way.

Joel (15m 26s):

Ooh. Yeah. Who knew You got, you knew Sodas so well, you're such a sugar fiend.

Chad (15m 32s):

We've got the internet.

Joel (15m 34s):

You have the internet. The internet, what the hell is that?

Chad (15m 40s):

I want to take a quick diversion away from, you know, Spetz listeners sent us an email that they received from CareerBuilder the other day, where CareerBuilder was looking to enforce their auto renewal services a little bit, a little bit tighter, right?

Joel (15m 57s):

No shit.

Chad (15m 58s):

Now, generally, generally we wouldn't see this as a big deal at most organizations, I believe moves that appear to be small like this for CareerBuilder are indication of that companies move away from humans and toward bleeding as much from the bottom line as they possibly can.

Joel (16m 16s):


Chad (16m 16s):

The big question is how long do you think CareerBuilder can milk what they've been doing before? They just, they just dry up and die.

Joel (16m 24s):

Yeah. By the way, it's hard to ignore something that's running around with its head on fire. It tends to like draw the eyeballs to it. But yeah, this new sort of, I dunno, policy where you have to give a 90 day notice if you're a one-year contract, which is that's crazy. Right. But what's crazier. This is really crazy. If you're a monthly contract, you have to give a 15 day notice that you're canceling. So in 15 days of your contract, you got to let us know if you're in or out, which I think is ridiculous. It reminds me of the original Star Wars. There's a scene where Princess Lea, Darth Vader talking. And she says something like, you know, the tighter you, you make your grip on the rebellion the more we slipped through your fingers.

Chad (17m 9s):


Joel (17m 10s):

And when companies like have to grasp onto those last straws of customers, what ends up happening is all the customers just slipped through their hands and go somewhere else. And that's essentially, I think what CareerBuilder is doing here, they're thinking that they're holding onto customers when they're really losing them. They're on the wrong side of history here. The world is moving towards, you know, software as a service, pay us by the month, pay us for the year you'll get a discount for doing so. Cancel any time, no long-term contracts and this, yeah, this is gonna, this is just going to play out poorly for them as everything else does. They're going to lose more clients. People are going to be pissed off at them because they're renewing that they don't want renewed.

Joel (17m 52s):

It's just the dumpster fire, continuing to blaze at Careerbuilder.

Chad (17m 56s):

How long do you think they'll last a year?

Joel (17m 57s):

Oh, the company. Sure. They'll last. I don't think Irena will last, I think she'll be gone. And they, I mean, they may sell it. I mean, look, there's a big hiring spree coming apparently from the pandemic being over. So, you know, a year from now might be the time, the right time to like unload it to somebody who wants to pay for a premium for it.

Chad (18m 16s):

I don't know what they have left other than broadband, but okay. Yeah.

Joel (18m 19s):

They have 90 day notices on their contracts, but that's what they have. You buy CareerBuilder you've got cashflow for at least 90 days.

Chad (18m 27s):

They might, they should probably switch to the gig economy.

Joel (18m 31s):

They probably should, as is hot these days, as you know, when something is hot and profitable, guess who pays attention? Mark Zuckerberg and the kids at Facebook. So we've got word here recently that Facebook has taken a look at the growth of Upwork, Uber, Instacart, Door Dash, you name it and have said, we might want a piece of that. So they're looking a little hard at the gig economy, no specific plans or official plans. This is sort of rumor mill stuff, but they've gotten into jobs. They've gotten into sort of Slack territory with messaging. What are your thoughts on Facebook heading into the gig economy?

Joel (19m 12s):

Like all the cool kids.

Chad (19m 13s):

Yeah. Get a, give a shout out to the job board doctor. I read this on his blog personally. I think this is like a side hustle.

Joel (19m 20s):

Happy New Year doctor.

Chad (19m 21s):

Yeah. I think this is kind of like a side hustle, more of a come over and set up my Ikea kind of platform more than a, a major project based gig platform. I mean, I've used the marketplace to sell lawn mowers and furniture and it's easy. And I think this might be a great way for people to get like task rabbit types of hustles, but this is not a steady platform to find gigs, to feed your family.

Joel (19m 47s):

Gotcha. So mowing the yard. Yeah. Thumbs up. Coming in to be chef of my restaurant. Not so much.

Chad (19m 54s):

Old ladies wanting their light bulbs changed in their home. I mean, stupid shit like that. Right. That needs done Cleaning up, cleaning out gutters, you know, that kind of shit. Right. But this is, this is, this is not going to be really anything other than again, like a task rabbit.

Joel (20m 9s):

Yeah. Yeah. They're going to be too worried about replicating Cameo apparently. And we'll get to this later, but all their workers are going to start unionizing soon. So they've got bigger problems and taking on Fiverr, Upwork and Uber.

Chad (20m 22s):

Well, a bigger problem though, is that in a story from MarketWatch, the first signs of the broad effects of the passage of prop 22 in California. Albertson's confirmed Monday that it's moving away from doing its own grocery delivery in Southern California and toward using third party delivery services. Albertsons is also Vons, Pavilions Safeway, and they decided to shift in early December. How does this shape the market moving forward? I mean, if you have FTEs and/or, you know, part-timers out there under your umbrella, you're mainly just pushing them out into the jungle of gig work.

Joel (21m 4s):

I think if you are a big enough organization and I would put Albertsons in that category, you should be running your own show. If you're a small, you know, one restaurant, you know, a couple, a couple businesses locally, like you should totally be leveraging Instacart, Door Dash or whatever, because you do not have the capacity to have an army of people delivering shit for you. But if you have the wherewithal, you should have a mobile app that has rewards, that has a branding experience, when someone delivers something that makes you feel a certain way when it's delivered by your company. And aside from the branding components of that and you know, I mean, I know there are issues with, we have more employees and it's a whole thing.

Joel (21m 48s):

And like the technology around that what's gonna happen is, you know, take heat from Netflix, Amazon, like these things sound good until Instacart launches their own grocery store and they already have the data you laugh, but I'm serious.

Chad (22m 3s):

No, I agree.

Joel (22m 3s):

They have all the data of all these customers, what they like to buy when they like to buy it. You know, they have all this data and data is the new gold, right. Or the new Bitcoin. One of the two. Yeah. So, so, you know, 10 years, five, 10 years down the road, Albertsons is going to go, Holy shit everyone's just buying directly from Instacart. Like, no one's buying from us anymore because it's a better experience with Instacart. So to me, like, if you're big enough, you should make the investment to have your own delivery, have rewards, hook people in, give them, you know, shit, extra like Prime video and stuff that makes it even better. Give them local cue. I don't know what, what you have to do.

Chad (22m 42s):

Yeah. And when Albertsons itself has revenues of $62 billion per year, and then Safeway, Safeway's at $38 billion. It's like guys Kroger, they own the ecosystem, the data. So I agree a hundred percent. I think this is a bad move.

Joel (22m 59s):

Yup. Yup. But what's not a bad move is choosing JobAdX.

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Joel (24m 18s):

You ready for a big sports weekend?

Chad (24m 21s):

Kind of.

Joel (24m 22s):

Yeah. Yeah. So I got, I got to give some quick shout outs to my sports, my sports. So, my mighty ball State Cardinals Church, they have, they have a football team chirp chirp motherfucker. So my balls day Cardinals played the San Jose State Trojans or nights or something and, and kick their ass. So shout out to my ball state cards, shout out to my Browns who made the playoffs for the first time in 18 years, they're going to get their asses whipped by the Steelers A team. But anyway, that's a different story. And shout out to Indiana. If you're a basketball fan, specifically, a college basketball fan, the entire March tournament is going to be in the state of Indiana.

Joel (25m 6s):

So that'll be a party. And lastly, in sports, the Red Sox hired the first woman coach ever in pro baseball. That is a little bit of progress. I'm guessing she's going to be on the, A squad, a single a ball, but Hey, it is progress. Shout outs in sports.

Chad (25m 25s):

You missed the best sports overall Dabo Sweeney get smacked in the face by Ohio State.

Joel (25m 31s):

I was leaving it for you.

Chad (25m 33s):

Dabo Sweeney starts talking smack to Ohio State saying Ohio State doesn't deserve to be in the top four.

Joel (25m 41s):

Number 11.

Chad (25m 42s):

Yeah, number 11 that's what he put them as 11 and then Ohio State just gobsmacked the fucker. And yeah. So enjoy your time at home Dabo.

Joel (25m 52s):

All right. Give me an Alabama Ohio state prediction.

Chad (25m 54s):