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Predictions 2022

It's that time of year again: Predictions!

Where'd we get it right and (mostly) wrong in 2021? And what are the bold guesses we're making for 2022 for the world of work? Like always, Chad & Cheese have enlisted the help of longtime vet and good friend Tim "Sackadomus" Sackett to give his two cents on what the crystal ball says for next year.


INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (21s):

Oh yeah, you want it? You love it. It's the yearly prediction show. What's up everybody. I'm your cohost Joel "COVID house" Cheeseman.

Chad (34s):

And I'm Chad "did I say that?" Sowash.

Joel (38s):

And you're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast and as always, please welcome Tim Sackadamus!

Tim (47s):

Yes. I thought maybe you throw in there. Tim "how many colonoscopies did he have in 2021?" Sackadamus.

Joel (54s):

Well, I was going to ask you how your year went since I'd been basking in your right, your correct predictions, I assume.

Tim (1m 3s):

Yeah. I don't even remember what they were, so I guess, well, yeah, we go, we get to go through those, which will be awesome. But yeah. You know, like everybody else, you know, it's just been a wonderful 2021.

Joel (1m 13s):

You got to see us in the fall so that had the highlight of your year.

Tim (1m 19s):

Right? That's great. That was, it was one of the highlights of the year, by the way. So since we haven't been out to see anybody.

Chad (1m 27s):

Yeah, thanks to Symphony Talent for that one. Right. We ran riding around in the big pink bus.

Joel (1m 32s):

Hell, yeah. Wait, did you say pink? Oh God. All right. Let's take a break and get to get to the good stuff. We'll be right back. We got to recap all of our great predictions from last year before we get to the show.

Chad (1m 46s):

Yeah. That's always fun.

Joel (1m 47s):

Let me get the buzzer ready. Let me get this sound bite. Okay. It's working. All right. It's working.

Chad (1m 54s):

Well, one thing, Steven, Rothberg had a prediction and that was late 2021. The vaccine obviously was close in 2020, but Stephen didn't think that we would be back to full conferencing until, you know, Q4 of 2021. Well, I don't think we even did that. Did we?

Joel (2m 13s):


Tim (2m 14s):

Well, you know, we do get what HR Tech, Sherm annual went. So there's a little bit of full conferences.

Joel (2m 22s):


Chad (2m 22s):

A little bit of that. A little bit of that,

Joel (2m 26s):

Rothberg's enjoying the sunshine in Phoenix right now. So I say we just, we just buzz his ass.

Tim (2m 30s):

Yeah. By the way, I was in Utah this year and I ran into a guy at a restaurant standing outside that he was from California. He's like, well, the sun kills COVID that's why he was in Utah. I'm like, you're from California.

Chad (2m 44s):

You're a fucking idiot. Anyway. All right, let's get some of these Tim's and we're just going to rapid fire through Tim's first. So Tim's first a was SAP acquires a core talent platform ATS like Greenhouse, Smart Recruiters, Jobvites yeah. That's big no, but it's still needed. You can always hope.

Joel (3m 6s):

Predictions are never wrong. They just haven't happened yet.

Chad (3m 12s):

It's a hope and prayer. Organizations provide vaccines by performance.

Tim (3m 18s):

Great one.

Chad (3m 18s):

That would have been a great one. I'd get, could be happening kind of like under the radar, we just don't know about it.

Joel (3m 25s):


Chad (3m 25s):

But we don't know our books. And last but not least for Tim large enterprise company gives option of salary paid in Bitcoin. So.

Tim (3m 36s):


Joel (3m 37s):

Are we going to give him that one?

Chad (3m 44s):

If Aaron Rogers is NFL the standard?

Joel (3m 47s):

These are billion dollar businesses. It's a public company.

Chad (3m 49s):

We did so bad. Let's give at least one of us one.

Tim (3m 53s):

Get A half.

Chad (3m 54s):

I'm going to have cheer. Yeah. Then we'll go ahead and wrap it through my pieces of shit here. So first off Glassdoor takes a dirt nap. That did not happen.

Joel (4m 8s):

Ambitious prediction.

Chad (4m 10s):

That was pretty? Yeah, it was ambitious. Blackbox AI outlawed. No. And we actually heard from Keith Sonderling commissioned from the EOCC that won't be happening because you know, we're looking for companies to trip over themselves. And last but not least, this is one that much like, you know, a Tim's SAP you hope happens, but Microsoft acquires iCIMS, that did not happen. Very ambitious and wrong at the same time. Then we get into Joel's where Airbnb launches, Airbnb Work for corporate spaces. But I was right on the counter prediction though, that they would, they would embrace remote with current inventory.

Chad (4m 58s):

So they are doing that. They're actually pitching the spaces that they had with Airbnb for remote work. So I was right on that one.

Tim (5m 8s):


Chad (5m 9s):

Number two, Joel went, he went like crazy on number two. He saw acquisitions. The first acquisition Seek buys, Talkpush, and Vervo mean you talk about, that's a double strike right there.

sfx (5m 26s):

Oh hell no...

Chad (5m 27s):

Dice goes private and last but not least in his third strike Recruit buys ZipRecruiter.

Joel (5m 34s):

Finally, my IPO for Zip happened in the year that I didn't predict it.

Chad (5m 41s):

And your last one, Salesforce rebrands as Slack and creates a network of people to compete with LinkedIn plus Teams that did not happen.

Joel (5m 50s):

I still like that one. I still like that one.

Chad (5m 51s):

That was it. I have to say we were very ambitious last year. So that was good.

Joel (5m 59s):

Dice had a really good year stock wise. That's not my prediction. I just want to throw it out there, outperformed ZipRecruiter by quite a bit.

Tim (5m 57s):

We should do it like a survey of gen Z recruiters to see who, if they know who Dice is?

Chad (6m 9s):


Tim (6m 10s):

What percent knows what Dice is?

Joel (6m 18s):

Well we know the Europeans don't.

Chad (6m 20s):

Now, before we actually get into predictions predictions, and Joel, you can like scramble them up and tell us who's going to go win. I think the big story, which is I can, I can't wait for the sound effect for this, but the big story is VC funding in 2021 and per George LaRocque's numbers, 2021 was $18 billion. So do we think 2022 eclipses 2021?

Joel (6m 51s):

Big, no, from me, I think the theme is over. I think there'll be new theme in 2022. I think the money is not free anymore. The animal spirits I think are going to be calming down in '22 and I wouldn't be surprised to see a 50% haircut in investment money into our space.

Tim (7m 9s):

Oooh. That's a big prediction.

Joel (7m 11s):

And we're not even to our predictions yet, but Hey,

Tim (7m 13s):

I think it's going to eclipse. I think there'll be, I think it be between 18 and 19. I just think it's still, even though we're on the way down, I think from like, there's kind of this peak of craziness in the industry, there's still like, there's still is a lot of money floating around. People are trying to get rid of it. And we see it constantly where people are getting a hundred to 50-5500 million, like getting unicorn status for literally having next to no revenue.

Joel (7m 42s):

Do you think the theme changes. Does it move away from remote and diversity and automation to something else? Or does it stick with those?

Tim (7m 50s):

I still, the biggest pain people are feeling right now is, is definitely talent attraction. So I think that will continue that, that realm and then, and then retention stuff. Right? So what are we going to do with that kind of internal mobility, retention?

Joel (8m 3s):


Tim (8m 3s):

You know, engagement kind of stuff. I think that gets in a whole other, we haven't really talked about engagement, like kind of software for what? Eight years? Five years on the craziness.

Chad (8m 15s):

Yeah, I think so the previous four years didn't hit 6 billion and then the next thing you know, we tripled over tripled that this year.

Tim (8m 22s):

So that would have helped. And it helped me. I would have had that. No wonder Joel said nine.

Chad (8m 30s):

He didn't know either.

Tim (8m 32s):

I'm going to say eight, Hey, now

Chad (8m 34s):

The flood gates were open. Dude. I think we're going to see a lot of dead unicorns in the next two years at least.

Tim (8m 43s):

I don't do that. We need to predict what's the first unicorn in our space that dies.

Joel (8m 47s):

The problem is they have so much money. They're going to have a life span of at least five to 10 years. Yeah.

Chad (8m 55s):

I don't know. Some of those fuckers have crazy burn rates. Yeah. They have crazy burn rates.

Joel (9m 1s):

So Chad, you're saying less?

Chad (9m 3s):

I'm saying less what? I'm saying less money.

Joel (9m 7s):

Okay. So should we each guess a unicorn that gets shot for next year just for shits and giggles? Yeah.

Tim (9m 14s):

We would have to have the list though. Right? We'd have to know which ones are unicorns.

Chad (9m 16s):

We can bring him back for another show where he talks about that.

Tim (9m 19s):

Killing unicorn show.

Joel (9m 21s):

Just one in a short period to me it would be Canvas, founder's gone, new management, like that's kind of a weird squirrely situation. So if I had to pick one, I'd throw them out.

Tim (9m 31s):

Not a bad one.

Chad (9m 31s):

I'd have to analyze a little bit more. I have a few that I would like to see dead, but I don't know that

Joel (9m 43s):


Chad (9m 44s):

They have a longer runway than a 2022.

Joel (9m 48s):

All right, love it. Let's go to round one now let's go to our special guest, the honor, honorable Tim "Sackett" Sackadamus your first prediction for 2022 is

Tim (9m 54s):

I think Paradox is going to get acquired, which again, this is one of those unicorn status kind of ones, right. That just got it, which makes it a little more difficult to be acquired, but gold standard in terms of conversational AI products, enterprise, customer base, Workday's already in love with them. Oracle and SAP would also be, it means it's going to have to be a big buyer.

Joel (10m 16s):

Indeed's an investor.

Tim (10m 17s):

Right. So I mean, I, I think it's one of those, gosh, they're really good, but they really need more around them I think. Right. Or I think they could, I mean, take advantage of, you know, somebody like a Workday, Oracle, you know, kind of a customer base. So.

Chad (10m 32s):


Tim (10m 32s):

That'd be a good marriage to happen. I just don't know with that last round they got, if it's going to be something that could happen, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Joel (10m 41s):

And you don't think IPO's in the future? Cause that would really be the only other option.

Chad (10m 45s):


Tim (10m 45s):

That's really the only other option. And I don't know. I mean, they move. I mean, you guys, you, we all know Paradox pretty well. They move fairly slow. I mean, I mean, they still are kind of held with, I think Aaron does a pretty good job of not making reactionary moves. So I don't think they're going that route, but we'll, you know, who knows? But gosh, I think they're attractive to a big enterprise HCM.

Joel (11m 6s):

Pardon me, knowing Aaron, as I do thinks he would love to go public. I think he'd love to be on the NASDAQ and yes, for sure. Yes.

Chad (11m 16s):

Feeds into my prediction. You want me to go ahead and go.

Joel (11m 21s):

Yes. Go ahead Chad.

Chad (11m 22s):

Okay. So kind of somewhat counter to Tim's. I have two Paradox predictions here first and foremost, new cash means, no surprise kids ACQUISITIONS. So in 2021, Paradox acquired Spetz and Israeli chatbots they've for a global footprint and obviously acquisition of talent over there, good Acqui-hire. And then Traitify a mobile screening platform, nothing more than normal process efficiency tech that you know, why build it yourself when it's there and easy for the taking. So my acquisition prediction is I believe Paradox will acquire, they will make a European acquisition.

Chad (12m 6s):

The UK and EU are very fertile ground in which the bolster, the Paradox footprint and brand. So first and foremost, they're going to have a European acquisition. My second prediction is their market positioning changes completely. The new cash will drive faster movement for Paradox away from being a point solution, only conversational AI. It's more of a core talent platform competing with players like iCIMS, Jobvite, Eightfold, Smart Recruiters, and Greenhouse, much like Eight-fold when they took that money, they knew that they had to bust out of just being a matching like platform, or they knew that they wanted to go for that money.

Chad (12m 51s):

Same thing here, the cat is out of the bag, Paradox is going to have to acquire, I see growing footprint being global, and then obviously changing that market position. Because if you think about it, if you're a point solution, you're not going to be able to garner that much total addressable market, right. You have to expand.

Joel (13m 11s):

So global domination is what you're predicting for Paradox.

Chad (13m 15s):

Can you expect anything else from Aaron Matos?

Joel (13m 17s):

I mean, that sounds like a non acquisition of Paradox. That sounds like world domination and public company, from Chad Sowash.

Chad (13m 22s):

That's what I do. I always counter from Tim. So either Tim will be right or I'll be right.

Joel (13m 27s):

That's fun.

Chad (13m 27s):

Or we'll both be wrong and they'll just do it.

Tim (13m 29s):

Even before this latest round, they were already sitting on a bunch of cash. So I like that. I like that prediction. Cause I think they do obviously have the money to go out and do some of that. And I agree, I think if they decide to stand alone and they already have really big contract size, like their average contracts are already kind of bigger than most ATSes. So, you know, it makes sense for them to kind of go full ATS or full talent kind of platform suite across enterprise wide from that standpoint. Plus again, if you're going to sit on top of a Workday, Oracle SAP kind of HCM and be the talent play that, you know, they already kind of have that, you know, that background to be able to do that. So it makes sense.

Joel (14m 8s):

Assuming iCIMS goes public, I think they've already filed the papers to do so. Tim, do you think that'll be a barn burner? Do you think it'll be sort of a yawn or is it going to go badly? Because I think how iCIMS goes, we'll see if, what Greenhouse, Smart Recruiters, Jobvite, like all of them follow suit or not any predictions around the iCIMS IPO?

Tim (14m 25s):

I don't think it'll go bad. I don't think it will be. I don't think it will, you know, double in value though, either. I think it's just one of those that, you know, it'll whatever their price point comes out at, which usually is vetted, like, you know, for so long that when it, by the time it hits the market, it's pretty, you know, kind of locked in. I don't, I just think it won't have a lot of movement to it. Right. Cause I think people don't, most people don't understand that business, even though, you know, from an IPO standpoint, from the market being like everyone's crazy for talent, they'll definitely have the story to be able to spin. And so who knows, but again, some of this just depends, like aren't we kind of waiting for the market to drop like 25%.

Tim (15m 7s):

Like it's been like an eight year run, like timing wise, they could get really fucked by that.

Joel (15m 12s):

Right. Yeah. It's certainly not a sexy stock. It's not something that the Robinhood folks are gonna get real excited about if they didn't get excited about ZipRecruiter and not getting excited around iCIMS. Alright, well, my prediction has nothing to do with Paradox. Some people will appreciate that. So my first prediction for the year is robots finally take over in a significant way. I predict that a restaurant by a famous brand name will launch a robot only restaurant.

Tim (15m 42s):


Joel (15m 43s):

So your order or on your phone, Starbucks is kinda tough cause you have some, I don't know so many like the human element of that is sort of special. If I were want to predict, I would say it would either be like a BW3 opening up a wing only satellite restaurant or perhaps Pizza Hut and Yum! Brands who owns, I think Wings, Etc. I could see them launching kind of a wings, a standalone robot only. This thing will get a ton of PR the today show CNN, like everyone will be at this restaurant ordering food and it'll get a ton of press.

Joel (16m 29s):

And you'll see, I think more and more restaurants expedite their move to robotics.

Tim (16m 29s):

You guys, can you pause? Can we pause for a minute? I got to look up the URL,

Joel (16m 35s): And I think that's a big, a big shift. I think we've been talking about robots in terms of the service industry and a hardest to employ people there and the spike in salaries and hourly wages. And I think this will be a really interesting sort of pivot if it goes well.

Tim (16m 54s):

I think it's great. I say Starbucks, because I think obviously with the issues of, you know, that they're already having with unions and issues that they have with their vaccine mandates that they just brought out and then you already see an Asian countries, a lot of success with kind of coffee, robot driven, baristas. Like it seems like that's going to happen at some point that's going to happen already. And if you're Starbucks, you're like, I'm done with people at this point. Like how do we just turn it back to the robots?

Chad (17m 23s):

The Austin airport for God's sakes, they have a robot coffee vendor that's right there. And it's not just your regular, you know, black coffee with sugar. So yeah. I mean we're seeing those types of things. I would, I would say that if, if a restaurant went full robot, right, never go full robot. If you went full robot, it would go down in flames just from the standpoint of what we're used to as humans. There's gotta be that familiarity there. Right. So yeah, I think, I think we will see more robots. There's no question, but if they go full robot, that's a bad thing.

Joel (17m 57s):

For me if the wings are tasty, I don't care who makes them or what makes em.

Tim (18m 0s):

I think Joel just wants robot wings. He just is like, I'm ready for it.

Joel (18m 4s):

I'm so hungry.

Tim (18m 6s):

At three in the morning, he wants to drive down to like the vending machine and get wings.

Joel (18m 11s):

The COVID needs to be fed. All right. That those are our first three predictions. Let's take a quick break and we'll get into round two of predictions for 2022. All right, guys, Tim got to go first round one. I know Chad is itching to get his second prediction out. Chad, why don't you hit up the audience with number two?

Chad (18m 38s):

OK. So number two, ZipRecruiter, acquires Vervo. So as I listened to Joel's 2021 prediction about Vervo being acquired by Sikh, right? I was inspired. I thought it was a bit premature, but to be fair, premature is what Joel is known for. Anyway. I thought.

Joel (18m 59s):

I have three kids for a reason.

Chad (18m 59s):

Yeah. I'm talking about premature for her, not you. Anyway, I thought about what big names should be buying, interviewing an assessment tech like Vervo. Then what company literally needs that kind of tech and to stay competitive, the best fit I thought was ZipRecruiter. Hands down, Vervo fits squarely into Zips target audience. And more than one-ups Indeed's weak ass interviewing platform. Vervo just launched a customer service simulator for retail tech support and subscription services, which puts candidates into a virtual customer service environment and then test their ability and skills and problem solving.

Chad (19m 43s):

Customer service talent is, is generally top three when we take a look at needs of the market, but this simulator could be adapted for much more, especially with Zip because they got so much fucking money. The main point here is that Zip needs the challenge Indeed, and deliver better candidates faster. Vervo would supercharge those efforts and make Indeed's platform look like a set of tinker toys.

Joel (20m 9s):


Chad (20m 10s):

There you go.

Tim (20m 11s):

It's like you wrote like the marketing for them. Yeah.

Joel (20m 14s):

Big sweaty balls.

Tim (20m 15s):

By the way, could you, like the amount of money that's going to be like just throwing at Zip and Indeed this year from companies begging for talent can be ridiculous. Like I would love to be on the sales side cause you know, you're going to exceed every revenue goal by like 200% like this.

Joel (20m 34s):

Yeah. They're getting inbound calls. Like I'll call them on Friday. Yeah. Everyone else's begging for phone calls.

Chad (20m 39s):

Vervo only has 4.5 million in funding. Right. So they, I mean, they haven't taken a lot of money. Right. So, I mean, I think they're perfect.

Tim (20m 47s):

You got Tradify acquisition for 50 million you're going to get them. Right, right. Yeah.

Joel (20m 54s):

How global is Vervo? Do we have an idea because ZipRecruiter, one of their, I guess Achilles' heels is the lack of global sort of awareness and market share. Do you have any idea of what Vervo could do for them? I'm guessing in APAC it could help them get there.

Chad (21m 10s):

Yeah. And I don't think they're strong suit is, I don't think Vervo's strong suit is or their strong region is actually Australia. I think they're doing more in the US and in the EU. So I think this is less of a footprint, more of tech that they need to actually carry on and try not to just stagnate.

Joel (21m 39s):

You know, one of the interesting, I think macro evolutions and I think movies like Parasite and Squid Game are expediting this, is the technology around basically translating any language on the fly. And that will have really interesting features in terms of our space. Because if you have an automated video interviewing tool that can speak any language on the fly, that becomes really interesting. So somebody needs to develop that if, if there's an API in the future, Google developers or whoever?

Tim (22m 6s):

I ran into a kid during the holidays and he was, he's doing software engineering and he was like, and I'm doing a minor in German. And I'm like, that's stupid. I'm like literally you should do a minor in electrical engineering or whatever, like a double major because like German, like, do you have a phone? Like you're not going to have to know German.

Joel (22m 27s):

Yeah. And eventually yeah, on the fly, you'll be speaking English and there'll be hearing German or Danish or whatever. So yeah, I agree. Stupid.

Chad (22m 33s):

He probably did that for a chick though.

Joel (22m 34s):

Unless he wants to live there. Maybe he wants to live there or a chick, we've all done stupid shit for chicks.

Chad (22m 41s):

That's why he would want to live there.

Joel (22m 43s):

I like that Vervo off the table in 2022. So my next one, is I talked a little bit about themes, in the beginning of the show. And I think that if there's a macro theme for 2022 that I think will filter down to some degree into our space, it's the Metaverse that's right. I had to say it at least once. So we know Facebook actually changed its name in regards to this. So my specific prediction is some company, some startup in our space will have Metaverse something in terms of its solution. And it will be funded to the tune of 10 plus million dollars.

Joel (23m 27s):

If I had to guess what they would do, I'm sort of reminded back 15, 17 years ago. I remember a conversation about video recruiting and this company that was a startup actually would send webcams because webcams weren't ubiquitous at the time they would send the webcam to the candidate.

Chad (23m 47s):

Green job interview.

Joel (23m 52s):

They would have the logo of the company on the webcam. So they kept the webcam. So I literally think like companies will send Oculus devices with their logo on it, to high level sort of high demand candidates, particularly with companies that specify or specialize in Metaverse and do interviews in the Metaverse. So I think that we'll see the first little sprout of the Metaverse with some serious money behind it in 2022.

Tim (24m 17s):

Hmm. Probably what they'll do is just send you some shitty cardboard cutout thing that you put your phone in and that'll be like the first, here you go, we're going to send you a cardboard thing. It's going to fall off your face.

Joel (24m 30s):

It's cheaper for us to send you an Android phone than it is an Oculus. Just throw that Samsung in there.

Tim (24m 37s):

No. Where do you want me to do with this phone? Like throw it away. You're fine.

Chad (24m 45s):

If that does happen. My prediction is we have them on Firing Squad and I give them the guns.

sfx (24m 57s):

Oh hell no.

Tim (24m 58s):

As Joel was talking about It's going to be the Meta. I'm just buying urls today. It's the first job board in the Metaverse.

Joel (25m 9s):

Combined with Pokemon go.

Tim (25m 11s):

Go, find your job.

Chad (25m 12s):

Yeah. Career builder has that.

Joel (25m 13s):

Could you guys see a different sort of focus or specialization of a Metaverse recruiting solution other than the recruiting process? I mean onboarding and training, I think that's going to happen as well.

Chad (25m 25s):

For sure. It is.

Tim (25m 26s):

Who's going to have the first metaverse HR, like our recruiting conference that we have to put our Oculus's on. And then we sit there with our haptic gloves and keep touching you inappropriately Joel, under the table.

Joel (25m 47s):

Time to revive the ERG conference.

Tim (25m 49s):

Yes. EREMeta

Chad (25m 50s):

ERE META just put Meta behind everything done. All right, Tim.

Tim (25m 52s):

All right. I'm going with a TikTok launches, its own recruiting, I say product/service. Now in 2021, we saw TikTok resumes, which was like a quick kind of like, Hey, let's check out and see if people will hire idiots on TikTok with a 32nd kind of video. But to me that was just kind of a let's test the, you know, kind of how the, will people be interested enough in this. And the reality was, is I think companies were interested, especially in the hourly side and would see the whole advent of kind of hourly recruiting solutions in the industry, as we just talked about Paradox and what they have. But I think TikTok they have so many freaking eyeballs for so long every day.

Tim (26m 33s):

There has to be a recruiting product service solution there that's going to make them a lot of money.

Joel (26m 40s):

How do you think the candidates will interact with the companies?

Tim (26m 42s):

That's that's the question, right. I still think like that's the whole reason this TikTok resumes was kind of born by TikTok because I think they felt like, Hey, there has to be a way to make this happen. All as we know is like the total engagement of their algorithm and how they can actually really go out. Their algorithm is so strong and they can really go after certain people. So if you're going after nurses or you're going after pizza delivery guys or whatever, like, you know, you can segment that out so well on and you could on TikTok, they don't do that now. I mean, they do that to you to like give you content. But I would think like organizations would fall over themselves right now to pay TikTok money, to have access to whoever those people are.

Tim (27m 25s):

And then to be able to jam videos at them, right? Like, Hey, you know, come, you know, work at, you know, Domino's pizza and blah, blah, blah, whatever.

Chad (27m 34s):

Well, I mean, they can do that now with marketing, right. I mean, it's just it's yeah. It's just the basic marketing instead of doing, you know, for pizzas, you know, you're doing it for pizza delivery positions.

Tim (27m 44s):

Yeah. I spread, I still think like there's a way to ramp that up right now where companies aren't necessarily making, it's not easy for them to do that. I can't go as, Hey, I'm the TA leader at Uber and I'm just going to call TikTok and say, Hey, I need to hire more people. You know, here's a shit ton of money like help me do that.

Chad (28m 8s):

I bet you could do that.

Joel (28m 12s):

Question for you, Tim. So we talked on last week's show, the phenomenon of quit talking, which is basically young people going on TikTok.

Chad (28m 20s):

At work.

Joel (28m 21s):

At companies saying like, Hey, kiss my ass. I'm outta here

Chad (28m 25s):

Store speaker system. Angela's a bitch. Fuck you. I quit.

Joel (28m 28s):

Yeah. Like younger people wanting to do video sort of feedback and less about like, I'm going to go to Glassdoor and fill out this form on my desktop about the company. Like, do you think that Glassdoor and some of their other competitors get into more video features?

Tim (28m 41s):

It would be a great option, right. As you see, like, as you go down, you're going to someone's company page and you're seeing all the comments. Instead you're just, you're going to see videos of people like saying like, here's what I like, here's what I don't like. There's definitely that aspect. I think, I'm still shocked that we don't see more and more video in the recruiting space. And like even, you know, that kind of stuff, because especially with gen Z and younger millennials are so comfortable with doing that. Yeah. I mean, it has to happen.

Joel (29m 12s):

They also don't give a shit about anonymity apparently. So yeah.

Chad (29m 15s):

Here's the problem. Here's the problem. Those z's are afraid to do it while they're working there because they're afraid they're going to get fucking fired, but they're not when they're getting ready to quit. Cause I mean, it's their middle finger, right? So it's gotta be more of a culture shift to be able to start to get those individuals much. Like we saw with, oh shit, Costco. Dude was doing Costco videos about benefits and what you can expect and so on and so forth. And it was really cool, but that was organic. Dude did it, you know, it wasn't something that was sponsored by Costco, per se. If a company could get their head out of their fucking ass long enough to understand that this of marketing not just impacts your hiring, but it also impacts those individuals who adore your brand and they could get it.

Chad (30m 4s):

But for some reason we don't connect with our CMOs and marketing does not connect with us. So we're just totally disenfranchised.

Tim (30m 10s):

We all love to rip on Amazon and there's so many reasons why in terms of how they step on their own dick constantly, but they actually had some of the better TikTok implement branding videos in 2021. Like they did same thing. They had actual actual employees that knew how to TikTok, that had a TikTok following going out there and doing stuff.

Chad (30m 34s):

Kissing garbage cans.

Tim (30m 35s):

Maybe not that.

Joel (30m 35s):

It felt organic?

Tim (30m 37s):

But it did feel organic. Yeah.

Chad (30m 38s):

That's cool.

Tim (30m 39s):

And they got great. I mean, great. Right?

Joel (30m 45s):

And don't forget Sherwin Williams boy.

Tim (30m 46s):

Oh yeah. Definitely

Joel (30m 47s):

Mix some paints and getting fired.

Chad (30m 50s):

Tony Piloseno.

Joel (30m 51s):

Okay. Let's let's take a quick break. Pay some bills and we'll get back, I guess to my third prediction.

Chad (31m 2s):

Cheeseman time.

Joel (31m 3s):

Cheese time, baby. All right. So I've already covered the metaverse. I've covered robotics. Let's talk about crypto. Let's talk about crypto.

Chad (31m 14s):

Everybody loves that shit.

Joel (31m 15s):

All right. Well, NFTs are taken over the world. People are becoming millionaires over these digital, can't be copied "wink wink" images. So my prediction is I think that NFTs will be a tool by companies to recruit as well as retain talent. Let me give an example. Nike is creating their own NFTs. Obviously the NBA, I think any team that has a strong consumer brand will create NFTs that goes into luxury items, athletic wear, et cetera. So I think that if you come in to work for Nike, for example, as an employee, you will get a unique NFT by Nike.

Joel (31m 55s):

And that NFT will allow you to do things that only employees can do. Maybe it's social activities or sporting events or whatever. And then each year that you stay with the company, or maybe after certain anniversaries, you'll get a, another NFT that will be more valuable because you've spent that much more time with the company. Maybe it allows you alumni. When you leave the company, you'll still have this somewhat badge, if you will, or token to be able to do stuff that only old time alumni of the companies can do. But I think we start to see the first evidence of companies using NFTs to not only recruit top talent, but also retain the people that they have.

Chad (32m 42s):

Are you like trolling in cell message boards for predictions. I mean every single one seems like old white dude in a beanbag chair.

Joel (32m 49s):

Sorry. Sorry. My real prediction is Vervo will get acquired by somebody. Let me make, make it exciting. No,

Tim (32m 54s):

Hey, by how old am I that I think like the whole Nike metaverse like, oh, I can have a digital pair of Jordan ones. How fucking stupid is that? Like, no, it's a goddamn, I don't need a pair of fucking Jordan ones in the metaverse I'm sitting on a goddamn beanbag in my basement, jerking off. I don't need shoes. So fucking stupid.

Chad (33m 20s):

Back to my comment. Go ahead.

Joel (33m 21s):

I'll be getting the last laugh next year when we talk about predictions that came true.

Tim (33m 25s):

By the way, Nike sent me a token. I'm in.

Chad (33m 34s):

I love it.

Joel (33m 36s):

And it's already worth $50 million.

Tim (33m 39s):

I know. Right. I'm going to do another really exciting one. I think Chad and I kind of stayed on brand and Joel went down the fucking rabbit hole.

sfx (33m 52s):

Take off eh we're doin' movie. Don't wreck our show ehhh.

Tim (33m 52s):

I'm gonna do a LinkedIn/Teams integration, so it's super sexy. Allowing TA teams to continue to communicate with candidates through Teams versus having to kind of continue to go through LinkedIn. It seems like that, like we keep waiting for Microsoft, LinkedIn to do something. And then I see more and more how they're just trying to jam everything to Teams. It would seem like if I have a LinkedIn recruiter license, at some point, I should be able to communicate under one platform. And I'm going to say that they're going to push everybody then to Teams and not LinkedIn. So we'll see in 2022, what happens, but I'm hoping, you know, Microsoft eventually decides to do something with some kind of integration with Outlook or Teams or something with LinkedIn, that they haven't really done yet.

Joel (34m 33s):

Tell me, visualize this. So I log into my LinkedIn account and Teams is integrated and I'm talking to the candidates through that?

Tim (34m 38s):

Yeah. It's through that. Yeah. So like, I mean, so if you're already, instead of going through LinkedIn messaging where it's stuck there, I can now pull that into Teams, which is then going to pull it into every other part of, you know, my email or calendar and everything else. So I'm not having to go back and forth right. To live through, you know, those, those conversations.

Chad (34m 56s):

Big advantage over slack. That's for sure. And I think this is genius, which is why I don't think it will happen. I think it's too.

Tim (35m 4s):

It makes too much sense. Right?

Chad (35m 6s):

It makes too much sense. You would think that they, I mean these integrations, it's almost like they're trying to squeeze everything they can out of LinkedIn kind of like its own little island and they haven't really, they haven't done you would think they haven't performed these types of integrations, which you would have thought would have been completed at least during a fucking pandemic when everybody's working from home. This makes sense. I mean, it really does.

Tim (35m 29s):

Yeah. I mean, especially like on the video side, when you're scheduling, you know, interviews and all this other stuff through Teams anyways, and a lot of organizations are using that. You know, not having to go back, back and forth between the two platforms, just, you know, it doesn't make any sense.

Chad (35m 44s):

So it's also, if you're talking to a candidate and you're messaging on LinkedIn, you could just hit it on Teams and boom, right into video. Right? Yeah. I know that you can go ahead and copy and paste a fricking Teams URL, but shit. I mean, if it's integrated, just do it all on the same platform.

Tim (36m 5s):


Joel (36m 5s):

Does anyone see Salesforce making a big acquisition in our space?

Tim (36m 9s):


Chad (36m 9s):

They're busy changing their name to Slack. I don't know.

Joel (36m 12s):

People been talking about that for years. I'm surprised it hasn't happened, but.

Tim (36m 19s):

They've been quiet haven't they they've been, it's kind of a weirdly quiet?

Joel (36m 23s):

They bought Slack and they've been quiet since then, for good reasons spending as much as they did. They better get that right before they do anything else.

Tim (36m 37s):

There's those beads of sweat on foreheads of executives.

Joel (36m 42s):

All right, Chad, you're bringing up the rear for this final prediction.

Chad (36m 47s):

Your favorite. It's your favorite? So Randstad finally shuts down Monster. So here's a quote from the Q3 earnings call "Monster turned the corner 1% year over year. We do expect the growth for Q4 to be stronger on Monster. And we're going to talk to you again at the capital markets day, because the more our technology becomes solid, the more we can invest in marketing. So we already invested in marketing and Monster in this quarter because we do believe that it will yield fruit"

Chad (37m 28s):

end quote. Okay. So this is a Q3 of 2021 earnings call when job sites are printing fucking money.

Tim (37m 36s):

Goddamn ATM's.

Chad (37m 36s):

And Monster turned the corner at a 1%. I mean, who is buying that? And then they said, the more our tech becomes solid. Are you fucking kidding me? You're drowning in technical debt. The biggest problem with Monster is that it's a 1995 core vet that hasn't had proper maintenance. It's been driven hard and into the ground and hasn't received any upgrades whatsoever. Hell, I'm not even convinced they're street legal anymore. So after Randstad does not see a tremendous uplift in Q4 2021 and Q1 of 2022, they cannot find a buyer. Obviously they're not going to find a buyer. They're going to cut their losses.

Chad (38m 18s):

And don't forget.

Joel (38m 19s):


Chad (38m 19s):

That they have a somewhat new North American CEO. They're their last North American CEO. This was like, her baby, Monster was like her baby. They have a new North American CEO. She's going to say, this is not mine. I don't want to have anything to do with this. And let's go ahead and just shut this fucker down.

Joel (38m 37s):

And they sell the domain to Monster Beverage? Is that part of the prediction?

Tim (38m 43s):

Ooo, they might get more money out of that, right?

Joel (38m 47s):

Hell yeah they will.

Tim (38m 48s):

In a world right now, how much would Monster or Monster Beverage pay for URL? Like 5 million, 10 million?

Joel (38m 54s):

I'd say 10 to 25 million.

Tim (38m 55s):


Joel (38m 56s):


Tim (38m 56s):

And you can't find another company in our space to spend that on them.

Chad (38m 60s):

No, not now.

Joel (39m 1s):

Well, just the domain. They don't give a shit about the resumes and the jobsite for sure. Like just the domain itself.

Chad (39m 9s):

Out of date tech or any of that.

Tim (39m 10s):

So maybe we should get with a Monster beverage folks, give them the URL and we'll just take all the tech for like five bucks.

Joel (39m 20s):

Let's buy Jobbr on the cheap and create the Instagram of jobs that they've been talking about for five, 10 years. Wow. You think they just shut the shit down? Interesting. That's a bold prediction Sowash

Chad (39m 31s):

Why continue wasting the cash on the resources when it's just going down the fucking abyss in the first place?

Joel (39m 37s):


Tim (39m 37s):

Did you guys see the, by the way, during the bowl season? Football bowl season, did you guys see the ?

Joel (39m 41s):

Knew you'd have to get to sports eventually.

Tim (39m 44s):

Did you guys see the CareerBuilder commercial?

Chad (39m 46s):

Oh No. Please tell, please, please.

Tim (39m 47s):

Oh my God, it had first, it had like that the really like the new shitty logo that they have. Like, you can't even tell what it is.

Joel (39m 55s):

The stamp?

Chad (39m 56s):

I really thought it was a joke.

Tim (39m 58s):

It's kind of looks like it's almost like as bleeding edges, like somehow, like it's still in draft form. Like, I'm not sure what this is. And then what was it? Joel? You remember the tagline?

Joel (40m 10s):

What was it? The employee of the month? Video or commercial where it's like the same woman every, every month. And she's like, I'm out here. The tagline. No, I don't remember. Which is a good sign.

Tim (40m 25s):

So like, I'm like, wow. Who, talked them into spending this money? Thinking like this is what we need?

Joel (40m 31s):

At least their fighting a little bit. At least there's taht.

Chad (40m 35s):

That was the new CEO's first innovative step. Sue Arthur, who I really want to get on the show and talk about this innovation.

Joel (40m 45s):

That'd be nice. That'd be nice. All right, boys, therein lies another predictions show.

Chad (40m 49s):

That was a blast!

Tim (40m 50s):

That was fun.

Joel (40m 53s):

Let's do it again next year. Let's hope that we can kick this COVID thing and actually have some face time next year more than just east Lansing's finest establishment. Believe it or not I miss you guys. I miss you.

Chad (41m 13s):

Oh, stop it. I'm going to tear up.

Tim (41m 17s):

It's just the COVID talking.

Joel (41m 18s):

It's my 102.3 fever.

Tim (41m 20s):

He's delusional.

Joel (41m 21s):

And with that, another one in the books.

Chad and Joel (41m 25s):

We're out. We out.

OUTRO (41m 23s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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