Stepstone Automation Bias Machine

Birthdays, Bed-Wetting Boards, and the AI Apocalypse

It’s a birthday extravaganza on HR’s Most Dangerous Podcast, but instead of cake, Chad and Joel are serving up cold hard truths and a side of existential dread. Chad is broadcasting live from a bar in Portugal with his new best friend/bar owner Alex, while Joel is mentally preparing for a month-long Italian vacation where he intends to demand "Italian beef" from deeply confused local chefs.  

Once the hangover talk subsides, the boys dive into the absolute dumpster fire that is the current AI landscape:

• Workday Gets a Win (Sort of): Workday beat revenue estimates, but...

  
  

• Indeed's Automated Trainwreck: Indeed has rolled out an AI "Apply for Me" feature that uses automated workflows and magic scoring systems to spam employers with machine-generated applications.

  
  

• The Global Meltdown: From Stepstone trying to pinky-swear they comply with the EU AI Act to Pope Leo dropping south-side Chicago shade on automated weapons and mass labor displacement, everyone is panicking. Meanwhile, major tech firms are realizing AI compute tokens are actually more expensive than just paying human beings to do the work.  

  
  

To wrap things up, Chad celebrates the tragic demise of Schlitz beer ("rest in lack of quality") and Joel questions his marriage after his wife buys him PBR Light.  

Oh, and there's a terribly inappropriate dad joke. We out!  

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Joel Cheesman (00:31.043)

yeah. We're not internationally known, but we're known to rock a microphone. What's up, boys and girls? It's the Chat and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel "Unconditional Surrender" Cheesman.

Chad Sowash (00:38.318)

And this is Chad, "It Takes Two" Sowash.

Joel Cheesman (00:47.223)

And on this episode of HR's Most Dangerous Podcast, Workday gets a win, indeed gives an assist, and Pope Leo drops some shade on AI, Chicago style. Let's do this.

Chad Sowash (01:03.406)

So can you hear my background at all? Can you hear it? Thank you. Well, early happy birthday to you and happy anniversary. All clustered, all clustered.

Joel Cheesman (01:03.701)

Happy birthday, man. Happy birthday.

Joel Cheesman (01:11.191)

Thank you. Thank you. So little little known fact about the Chad and Cheese show. born on the same year, a day apart, Chad is the twenty-seventh, I'm the twenty eighth. So by the time you hear this show, we will both have celebrated a birthday, my anniversary, celebrating number 10 this year. I'm on his birthday. That was not planned. We didn't say let's get married on Chad's birthday. It just sorta it just sort of happened. Although Chad, I think, keeps telling himself that that's exactly why.

Chad Sowash (01:21.826)

Mm.

Chad Sowash (01:35.254)

That's exactly what he did. He wanted take all the air out of the balloon, the Chad Chad's balloon, yes.

Joel Cheesman (01:40.459)

Steal my thunder. Steal Your your anniversary's summertime too, right? Or early fall. I I I forget.

Chad Sowash (01:48.334)

no, mine's yeah. Ours is September. the if you remember the Earth wind and fire song, September, the twenty first day of September, yes, we were we met on the twenty-first day of September. and we were married on the twenty-first day of September.

Joel Cheesman (01:52.386)

Okay.

Joel Cheesman (01:57.291)

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Who could forget that?

Joel Cheesman (02:08.865)

And is this year the tenth?

Chad Sowash (02:11.842)

God, that's a good question. I should ask Julie. If I asked Julie she wouldn't know. yeah, this has this has gotta be ten. This has gotta be ten. Twenty sixteen, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (02:18.111)

It feels like it is. yeah. We can edit that out on the show if you know, if you're

Chad Sowash (02:24.918)

No, you don't have to worry. She I can guarantee you right now, if I asked her, she'd be like, carry the one. I don't know.

Joel Cheesman (02:29.185)

Yeah. Kid was how old when we got married. They're how old now. so birthday, I assume you're getting a Trump phone for your birthday. The the deposit is finally finally paid off, right? All oven stripes. Yeah, no longer made in America, but made with American values in mind.

Chad Sowash (02:35.512)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chad Sowash (02:42.082)

Yeah since it comes out on my birthday. Yeah. All eleven stripes on the flag. Yeah, that's fucking awesome. That's great. Just like Trump hats. I I love it. I love it.

Joel Cheesman (02:57.727)

so good. Now what are you doing? You're obviously drinking in a bar, so I assume it's just gonna carry on from from here.

Chad Sowash (03:03.788)

Yeah, we're gonna wait till the weekend. plus I think we're gonna have we'll talk about this during travel, but you know, June free Joel. and thinking about thinking about, you know, August free Chad because all the Europeans take Aug August off. So I don't think I'll be able to do it, but I might try.

Joel Cheesman (03:16.951)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (03:22.593)

Yeah, we we introduced the idea a year or so ago, and I think I answered immediately when I was gonna take take my month, which cor corresponded with my wife's business travel, which is in Italy, which I've never been. So if you have any it Italian tips, either Chad or anyone out there, feel free to hit me up. we're doing Rome, Venice, Milan, and some other city that's a little bit more random. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (03:25.678)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (03:34.631)

yes.

Chad Sowash (03:43.746)

nice.

Yeah, get to Venice before it's underwater, that's all I gotta say.

Joel Cheesman (03:50.113)

Yeah, so I'm I'm pretty excited. So you you've been out for two weeks, invading England, I assume. You've you've been playing William the Conqueror this this month.

Chad Sowash (03:58.254)

Yeah. time time in England, good time. Stayed up by Regents Park. had an event there, job boards connect. then came back and had some friends come down from London for for that week. And it was nothing but beer, beach, and paddle. So I thought, just take a couple of weeks and come back right be refreshed before Joel leaves us for for for June.

Joel Cheesman (04:05.059)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (04:21.28)

Okay.

Any conference insights you wanna share? Any revelations come out of

Chad Sowash (04:27.368)

yeah. I so it's it's basically the same. when you are at the enterprise level, let's say you're you're at the top of the food chain, you know, in any type of industry, you don't believe anybody who's telling you that you need to change, right? No, I'm fine, no the market's fine, everything's good, it's fine, you know. You might as well be in the fucking corner in the field fetal position.

Joel Cheesman (04:46.079)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Chad Sowash (04:55.33)

But then you go over to the startups, the ones who want to disrupt things. And they're like, yes, we need to change what's going on. I mean, they they're like, they they they want to just eat everything you have to say. They they want to know. They they they want to win. You know what I mean? While you've got these, you know, the old crotchety motherfuckers up there saying everything's fine, nothing's yeah, no. It's it is two different worlds. But it doesn't matter what conference you go to, if you split those two worlds up.

Joel Cheesman (05:16.544)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (05:23.65)

That's exactly what you're gonna see every single time. And it's frustrating and hilarious at the same time.

Joel Cheesman (05:26.903)

Mm-hmm.

The puppies and the old dogs are a common story in our in our industry. Well that's that's exciting. Well, shall we get to shout outs?

Chad Sowash (05:31.46)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (05:37.528)

yeah, yeah, yeah, I wanna

Joel Cheesman (05:40.941)

I'll let you go first since you've not been here a couple of weeks. Give you the and it's your birthday.

Chad Sowash (05:43.478)

Okay, okay. I tell you what, let's do this real quick. I'm gonna bring Alex in. Come here, Alex.

Gotta Alex can can see there he is. Alex Alex is my this this my this my best buddy. it's definitely it's it's it's Ola. You can do that. Or Bon Dia, but it's afternoon, so it's gotta be Bolotard. You're right. Those cervezas right away. Don't worry. We'll we'll deliver them when

Joel Cheesman (05:51.137)

Set set the table for who Alex is. Hey Alex. What is it? Hola. What's what's Portuguese hello?

Hola, okay. Hola, Bonbio Dos Dos Beer Dos Cerveza, Porfavor All right, so who who's Alex? Alex, who are you?

Chad Sowash (06:15.082)

Alex, well, he runs this place. He he this is his place. Everybody calls this bar Alex's Bar. It's not the name of it, but they call it Alex's Bar. And it's his birthday today, too. So he's we're we're we're not the same age. I don't know if you can tell. If you're watching on video, you can obviously tell. I wouldn't be able to, but yes, his thank you very much. Happy birthday.

Joel Cheesman (06:17.825)

Runs the bar that Chad records in.

Joel Cheesman (06:27.35)

Okay.

Joel Cheesman (06:38.423)

Well happy birthday, Alex. You know, Chad, we we have a we have a new sponsor, Alex. So I don't know if there's a a combo there. We can like

Chad Sowash (06:46.566)

Alex.com. Well I I'll be glad to sponsor you whenever you come back here to Portugal to meet us up. There's the invite.

Joel Cheesman (06:50.579)

Okay. If if multiple Alexes want to give us money, I'm totally down for that. I I assume

Chad Sowash (06:56.814)

Well, I don't know that many, but I can sure contact them to sponsor you with a glass of Guinness or something like that.

Joel Cheesman (07:01.439)

So all right, so Alex give it give us an ad. Let like if when you're in Portugal, come to Al like what's your what's your ad if you're advertising on the show?

Chad Sowash (07:10.402)

my heads? no, I don't I don't have any head. Like this is literally the place to be right now. it's nice, it's sunny, it's very safe and everybody seems to have a blast when they come down here. And I think shed is the proof of it.

Joel Cheesman (07:23.265)

And I trust you have more than just Guinness, even though Chad only drinks Guinness from the show. What other kind of beers do you have? Okay.

Chad Sowash (07:27.63)

He's got a new Carlsburg tap right right here. New Carlsburg tap. what else do you have on tap? Strongbow Strongbow Sagris and like five different beers. yeah. Five on tap. But the ones that you're gonna love, Joel, he's got some of the best Belgian beers in the bottle, cold and ready. yeah. Well plus, yeah. Yeah. Tremis and all the stuff. All right, get out of here. I will, you got one. Don't worry about it. I do.

Joel Cheesman (07:40.387)

Uh-huh.

Hmm. Yep. Duval, I assume, is on. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks for thanks for hosting half of our show, Alex. Happy birthday to you. Getting all the Anglo beers from Portugal. I love it. Yep.

Chad Sowash (07:57.07)

Nice to meet you, Joel. Take care. Thanks, Jen. Happy birthday. Thank you. Love that, kid. Love that, kid.

L love that. Love that kid. yeah, okay, so shout out. You've you've got a shout out. I wanna go ahead and I'm going to shout out to the final toast. And if you would go ahead and play that video, Joel.

Joel Cheesman (08:19.029)

Hmm. Sure. Let's go. Let's go.

Chad Sowash (08:34.222)

177 years. Slits, you weren't the beer we deserved, but you were exactly the beer we could afford. you were the official sponsor of Questionable Decisions, backyard barbecues, where meat got burnt and garage bands practices that never resulted in a gig. You didn't pretend to be fancy. You didn't have notes of citrus or or hoppy finish. you tasted like beer, strong, unapologetic.

Joel Cheesman (08:37.995)

Let's

Joel Cheesman (08:49.697)

Uh-huh.

Joel Cheesman (08:59.716)

Mm-hmm. No.

Chad Sowash (09:04.671)

In budget friendly beer. so here's to you, old friend. You made Milwaukee famous, you made our weekends affordable, and you made our Mondays incredibly difficult. Rest in lack of quality. we'll miss you, you beautiful bitter bastard.

Joel Cheesman (09:06.231)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (09:22.785)

Yes. And I'm shocked that you didn't mention the Schlitz Schitz, which was a common thing after dr yeah. The schlitz shits was a common, common staple in college. By the way, I don't know. My wife has lost her mind. I don't know if it's perimenopause or what. She literally bought me PBR Light. I don't know if that's a message like I want to get divorced before the our tenth anniversary or what, but like

Chad Sowash (09:26.958)

That was Mondays. That's what we're talking about Mondays. Made Mondays bad. Ugh so bad. So bad.

Joel Cheesman (09:50.952)

PBR light, what is going on with that? yeah.

Chad Sowash (09:50.968)

Hmm. PBR light. Either that or I mean, I don't know. Maybe she did she know it was light? It could have been just like she saw the PBR and or she's signaling to you that you need to go on a diet? I don't know. I don't know.

Joel Cheesman (09:58.849)

I the the can's very different.

We're gonna have to have a hard conversation, Chad. A very, very hard conversation. I don't I don't know what to do here, bro. All right. So my shout out, let's just let's just round this out with a full white trash shout out session. Indy five hundred. Indy five hundred talked about it last week, but it it did not disappoint 350,000 people, the closest race in history. This is 110 running runnings that they've done of this race.

Chad Sowash (10:14.467)

Yes.

Chad Sowash (10:18.136)

Kid Rock? What? Okay. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (10:26.254)

Hell of a finish. dude.

Chad Sowash (10:32.048)

yeah. Awesome.

Joel Cheesman (10:35.203)

the winning time was just point two three three seconds ahead. there were seventy lead changes in this race. lots of wrecks. Joe Joseph Newgarden wrecked his second year in a row. He's probably my favorite driver, but it was a it was a great event. but more than that, it was it was a lot of people getting together. There was no violence, everyone got along.

there wasn't a lot of I'm on my phone time. It was a lot of like watching the race and being into it and and interacting. So I'm always a fan for the live events, get people off their phones, get people engaged with other human beings. So my shout out really easy this week goes out to the ND500 and it's it's winner, Felix Rosenquist, by the way. Felix Rosenquist.

Chad Sowash (11:11.462)

yeah.

Chad Sowash (11:17.55)

Yeah. I wonder. Yeah, I did. I in enjoyed I watched the the highlights, went been to the been to the race many times. the big question for for me though, I haven't been since they've done this whole hybrid kind of like electric slash, you know, petrol. is are are they quieter? Is the is the noise different? I always love the the the roar of the engines, but it is loud as hell. Is it different?

Joel Cheesman (11:28.407)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (11:47.179)

It is loud as hell. These are not electric vehicles by any means. and the the the also you probably didn't weren't there when the wiener the wiener mobiles raced each other. There's like ten ten wiener mobiles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This the snake pit, obviously, something you've probably experienced. That was fun this year. No, no, no. No, we do not. We do not. You gotta pay for the wieners.

Chad Sowash (11:48.544)

It's still okay.

Chad Sowash (11:54.894)

I was unfortunately. Unfortunately, I was not. I was not.

Well, I I I know you love a free wiener, but we don't give those away here at the Chad and Cheese podcast. We don't give those away. But but we do but we do give away stuff at Chad and Cheese. So we've got we got Steven here to tell us about.

Joel Cheesman (12:20.419)

Steven, what's up, dude?

Chad Sowash (12:42.946)

Thank God.

Chad Sowash (12:59.084)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (13:06.068)

It's not slits. Better not be.

Joel Cheesman (13:09.643)

It might be PBR light this year though. My this month.

Joel Cheesman (13:34.37)

Love it.

Joel Cheesman (13:37.869)

His his daughter's hair is the the color of fire. He is so screwed. man. So cute. So cute. So cute. I hope she comes to an event soon. Hope she comes to an event.

Chad Sowash (13:42.218)

it's awesome. Yeah. Remy. Remy, she is adorable. She's adorable. another thing that's not many, we don't have any events, but we have travel. And travel, as you know, is sponsored by Get Ready Kids, because we're again we've got a Joel Free June brought to you by our good friends over at Shaker Recruitment Marketing. Joel, question is: did Joe Shaker load you up with a couple of suitcases of

Joel Cheesman (14:07.491)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (14:11.134)

Italian beef so you don't have to eat all that all naturally grown Italian food in Europe.

Joel Cheesman (14:17.485)

I I suspect I won't see any Italian beefs in Italy. That's kind of an irony, isn't it? That's it's it's kind of a disappointment. I'll I might go walk into every restaurant and say, Where are the Italian beefs? God damn it. All right, I'll do I'll deal with the pasta and the linguini or whatever.

Chad Sowash (14:21.484)

I know. I know. huh. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (14:31.01)

Just walk in with the we have the meats. I mean if you're on the if you're on the coast, man, obviously amazing seafood. I know your your wife's not a big fan of the seafood. Are you allowed to eat it in front of her though? Or is she just like that squeamish about it?

Joel Cheesman (14:42.733)

Wife doesn't like seafood, yeah. Entire category. I'm so lucky.

Hmm. Depends on the smell. Sh like shellfish tend to have a little rough smell for her. Fish, pretty good. Fish are fine. Fried fish, like fish and chips, no problem. But yeah, if it's like a nice scampy or lobster tail, she kind of has problems with that. So I that's pretty rare.

Chad Sowash (14:53.826)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (14:58.498)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (15:07.47)

Okay. Well gonna have to Christine, allow a little shell allow Joel to be selfish with some shellfish, okay? 'Cause he's gonna need some. He's in he's in Italy. Come on.

Joel Cheesman (15:13.355)

Little little leverage.

Joel Cheesman (15:20.419)

I do like that. I do like that.

So yeah, June I'll be gone. and then also J first week of July, we were we'll be in Wreckfest. so I think we're gonna have a little little guest show that first week of July. So if if you if you love the show without me on it, you are in for a treat. It's gonna be s the summer of the anti cheat tea team cheese listeners out there. But for this episode anyway, I am still here and let's get to some topics.

Chad Sowash (15:34.318)

shit, yeah.

Chad Sowash (15:38.36)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (15:49.847)

Everybody loves you.

Joel Cheesman (15:58.635)

It was a holiday weekend, but we ain't frayed of no holiday weekend. We still got some news, everybody. Workday reported strong earnings, beating analyst estimates and posting revenue of $2.54 billion, driven by a 14% year over year increase in subscription revenue. and hello. Surging demand for its AI products, which I'm sure we'll get to in the commentary. You don't like workday news? Okay. The economist reported Google has effectively dethroned open AI in the consumer asset.

Chad Sowash (16:04.11)

Yeah sure.

Chad Sowash (16:11.561)

Hello.

Chad Sowash (16:27.19)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (16:28.627)

and enterprise AI race. you want a side of industry news with that? Well, Top Tall announced the acquisition of a Diva, a global IT talent network. Workday, Google and Top Tall, all in the news this week, Chad, your take.

Chad Sowash (16:45.484)

Yeah, so the workday bump, you know, I've said it before, and I will say it again, workday is fine, kids. It's the stock market that's fucked up. If a if a company is beating revenue numbers, but doesn't say AI enough in the quarterly fucking meetings, investors basically just stay sweat the bed. companies like ServiceNow, Salesforce, and Workday, I mean, even NVIDIA, for God's sakes, they're gonna be fine. I mean, it's when NVIDIA doesn't hit their like, you know.

200,000 trillion number. It's like, what the fuck? They hit it and they still go down. Anyway, anyway, companies like ServiceNow, Salesforce, work that they're gonna be fine, mainly because they are already into AI. They have AI. It's already there. But more importantly, they have contextual data specific to their users and their users client base.

In the platform already. They have the data. The data is the gold, kids. I don't I don't get what these guys are wetting the bed for. Transformation doesn't happen overnight, but these companies are moving pretty fucking fast. And as for the whole boomerang CEO thing where they brought their co-founder back, workday bringing the the the co-founder back, yeah. That's a go to move for any board that's wetting the bed. it's called a weak ass board, that's all it is.

It's all good at work day. Service now. You see these companies, it's it's fine. It's fine. You wanna you wanna you wanna talk about that a little bit?

Joel Cheesman (18:15.863)

I mean, I think it's a little early to say that it's fine. I think that that after a nice flush of the toilet, they're all sort of cla you know, clinging to the sides and trying to crawl out. The the numbers were great. The street loved it. what loved you know, some of the numbers, you know, four thousand customers are using at least one AI agent. their AR is approaching five hundred million. their agentic AI products grew two hundred percent year over year.

Chad Sowash (18:18.54)

Dang it's fine.

Chad Sowash (18:37.55)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (18:44.663)

The stock is still down forty percent. So it's not like it totally, you know, went went ballistic on the upside.

Chad Sowash (18:50.082)

So what's wrong with this? I mean you said we can't we're we're not sure yet. I mean it from the standpoint of what they need. They need AI, they got it. They need the data, which is the gold, literally the gasoline that runs the engine of AI. Shit, they got more of that than anybody does, especially from a contextual standpoint.

Joel Cheesman (19:01.912)

Yep.

Joel Cheesman (19:06.167)

Yeah, I think a couple of things happen. One is the flush was so deep that, you know, I don't want to say dead count bounce, but any sign of life when that happens is always a good thing, to to to the to the market. And these are huge companies. I mean, for these for these guys to like actually be flushed would be quite a spectacle and and AI is a bigger deal than we we probably recognize. Workday's also done a really good job of not just buying technology and we've documented the acquisitions that they've made and they did

Chad Sowash (19:15.99)

Agreed. Yes. Yes. fuck ya.

Joel Cheesman (19:34.839)

They did caught they did talk about Paradox and Sauna in the earnings report, but they've done a really good job of, I guess, seeing where the puck was going and saying, look, we need to buy not only AI and technology as well as people who know what the hell they're doing, but also we need to buy revenue. And you and I are fairly close to Paradox and have a pretty good idea of that their business was pretty good, that that revenue was there. I'm assuming Sauna and some of the other companies that they've acquired were in s were similar situations. So if they're just able to say, hey, we bought.

Chad Sowash (19:45.102)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Chad Sowash (19:55.49)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (20:04.023)

Paradox and paradox is adding X amount to the bottom line. We're not just adding AI, but we're adding revenue. And that that obviously comes into the numbers. So they can say, hey, our AI revenue is part of paradox. That's why companies will buy companies because they can add the revenue to the bottom line. So I think part of it is just like the crash has been huge. I think it's been been overdone. I agree with you on the point of like, hey, these companies aren't going out of business anytime soon, but they are being disrupted. They do have to pivot, adapt accordingly.

Chad Sowash (20:16.534)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (20:32.439)

To survive, I think Workday more than most has done a good job of saying, look, we're gonna buy properties that that give us revenue, AI, and talent to help us prepare and pivot to the to the direction we need to go to survive this marketplace. So compared to like a ServiceNow, who by the way, ServiceNow lost I think their CMO on the enterprise to open AI. I think Workday is much better positioned than a ServiceNow HubSpot, even a Salesforce.

Chad Sowash (20:39.51)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (20:59.885)

Uh-huh.

Joel Cheesman (21:00.139)

in our space at least to to weather the storm and come out come out better than than most. So I'm not digging a grave at all. I'm just not ready to say it's over, it's all good, we're out of the we're out of the, you know, we're in the clear and and it's sunny skies from here on out. We'll have to see if that's the case or not.

Chad Sowash (21:15.222)

Well well, dig digging the hole, or I mean, are we digging the hole for open AI at this point? I mean, their burn rate is fucking crazy. and then now we see this with them and Google. And I mean, it only makes sense. It's like it it's a big duh moment, right? I mean, adoption is about routine. And if you can get into a user's routine and you've created a halfways decent product like Google has, you can win over that user quickly.

Joel Cheesman (21:28.291)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (21:34.466)

Uh-huh.

Joel Cheesman (21:40.621)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (21:44.558)

Because they just go back to the well. They're used to going back to the well. So open AI spending versus revenue is ridiculously bad. Claude is, I mean, they they're kicking ass in the enterprise B2B market. They're getting, they're getting huge jumps, right? And now we see Google doing the same on both sides with B2B and B2C. So I mean, I to me, I think if any company's fried, it's it's an open AI. We're gonna see them go IPO. I mean, they have to.

Joel Cheesman (21:56.354)

Uh-huh.

Joel Cheesman (22:10.818)

Interesting.

Chad Sowash (22:14.05)

They have to. We're gonna see them go IPO. Then that's gonna be interesting to watch. Is it gonna be kind of like one of those Tesla things where it's all about the story and it's all about the bullshit? Or is it actually about the numbers? that's the thing that drives me crazy about the stock market. It's not about reality anymore.

Joel Cheesman (22:31.501)

Chad, it's time for a history lesson.

Joel Cheesman (22:36.759)

Back in the late nineties, a little browser called Netscape dropped on the world, and everyone embraced the internet like they had never done before. It was amazing. It was awesome. We were able to take this geeky tech that no one understood and put it on a screen like a TV and click around and became user-friendly. And Netscape was the talk of the town. And then Microsoft said, Hold my beer. We're going to put a whole lot of money, a whole lot of weight, a lot of influence behind our browser called Explorer.

Chad Sowash (22:38.19)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (22:52.088)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (23:06.099)

And Explore ultimately killed Netscape by the market share that they had, just the weight, the ability to be on every PC that you that you bought. This is a very similar situation. I've talked about this before, but I've I've said that OpenAI is at very much risk of being the next the next Netscape. And I think that's what we're seeing. But instead of Microsoft, it's Google. Google has eight businesses, I think, that have two billion or more users.

Chad Sowash (23:19.278)

No, no don't have to switch one.

Need to again the present for Same, same presentation, yeah. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you. Well you know this one. Thank you.

Joel Cheesman (23:33.293)

They have more like the money, the resources, the the their ability to get their product in front of everybody, whether it's email, browser, like sh drive. I mean, you name all the products that they have, but open i can't do that. Like, no one's using their Atlas browser except like super geeks that are sourcing candidates or whatever. Like, you know, I mean, he he bought Johnny Ives.

Chad Sowash (23:48.447)

Yeah. We did bring out one. No. I forgot the name of it.

Joel Cheesman (24:00.183)

Company, they were going to make some little thing, pendant or something that was going to be AI. We haven't seen anything of that. Like, so I think they're they're in way over their skis. They just shut down Sora, their their image movie app. So things I don't think are good at at OpenAI. I think Claude, to your point, is eating their lunch on the enterprise side. I think Google's gonna eat their lunch on the consumer side and probably creep more and more into the enterprise side. yeah, I don't.

Chad Sowash (24:11.487)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (24:26.455)

I don't think this is a this is a company that is gonna be something that we talk a lot about a decade from now. So open AI, you started you started the fire, but Google put it out, I'm afraid. Google put it out. Yeah, this is the Chad birthday extravaganza. We got more guests.

Chad Sowash (24:40.322)

So we we have another we have another special guest by the way Well it wouldn't be right without me and in a decade we will still be talking about your birthdays. Happy birthday. I well I'm very optimistic. Well, if I need to remind you, I'll be here to do that.

Joel Cheesman (24:51.811)

that's optimistic. Thank you. Thank you. But will will I r will I still know it's my birthday? I guess is gonna be the question. So Julie, you Julie, you missed it. you weren't on. So I'm gonna I'm gonna quiz you here real quick. this anniversary for you and Chad is what year?

Chad Sowash (25:07.258)

okay.

Chad Sowash (25:12.162)

Say fifteen.

Is it fifteen? We meant marriage? No, not marriage. Well she's talking about marriage anniversary. It's ten marriage, fifteen together. See? So is this is this my husband failed the test? I was like, I don't know. Give me back the headphones. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, okay.

Joel Cheesman (25:18.005)

It's my tenth, so it's not your fifth Yeah, marriage. Okay. There you go. Okay.

Joel Cheesman (25:32.077)

Such a such a wife thing like to go to when we first met. Like when we first made eye contact fifteen years ago. Okay. Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (25:36.078)

15. It was 15 years ago. Okay, now to the Top Tall stuff. We'll get to the industry stuff. Yes. Okay, so two words. Hey, babe. Babe. Damn it. Anyway, trying to get a beer. two words. Market consolidation. but I'm not sure that it's good for Top Tall as bigger players like Upwork are getting squeezed by market conditions and and Top Tall must be as well.

Joel Cheesman (26:02.733)

Uh-huh.

Chad Sowash (26:05.484)

This type of acquisition isn't just about building a bigger client portfolio, it's also about building bigger candidate portfolios, right? And I I've always liked the idea in the model, the top tell model. but I'm I'm not sure that the market being flooded with great candidates helps them in the long run. We we we shall see. I'm I am a big fan of niche players, big fan of niche players squeezing that niche.

Seems like that's what Top Tile's doing, especially with this acquisition of one of their competitors. So I like it, but the problem is the market's fucking flooded with talent, dude.

Joel Cheesman (26:42.093)

Yep. Yep. Especially in this case, you have tech talent, which is going through, I guess, a collapse or a restructuring of what that means. yeah, I I think you know, according to SIA, Top Tall is the eighth largest talent platform in the world. How many number eight players do you know that are crushing it in any industry at all? not not a whole lot. So they are niche.

Chad Sowash (26:52.334)

Crazy.

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (27:08.6)

They're a niche player. I mean, come on.

Joel Cheesman (27:11.339)

I was surprised to learn in my homework. They've been around since 2010. I had no idea. I was like, really? They've been around that long? so they they've weathered storms. they're they're lean and mean. I mean, most of their workforce is remote. I don't know what kind of cost structure they have, but they've at least made it sixteen years in business, which is saying something. and speaking of clock, a diva, 2015, the clock was definitely running out on them.

Chad Sowash (27:15.831)

yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.

Joel Cheesman (27:39.539)

11 years in business, they needed to shitter get off the pot. And I think that getting acquired was probably the best route for them. Again, they are tech heavy, and that is not a great place to be right now with AI doing so much coding. also I'll throw in earlier this year, Top Tall acquired NSI, which stands for no single individual. apparently a talent platform focused on the marketing and the creative space.

Chad Sowash (27:40.034)

Obrigado.

Chad Sowash (27:57.251)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (28:04.13)

Yes.

Joel Cheesman (28:04.267)

And just like we talked about upwork being a little bit challenged, well, all those positions, in are development, marketing, creative, what is AI doing? It's c it's it is disrupting all three of those in a big way. How many, you know, how many images, how many creatives do you, you know, hire to to do a logo now or to do an image? You know, like we do we do all of our own stuff now practically with with AI. So I agree with you. It's a consolidation,

Chad Sowash (28:08.046)

Chad Sowash (28:26.114)

Yeah, don't.

Joel Cheesman (28:32.994)

Terms were not disclosed, which means it was probably T J Max clearance rack item in this case. But yeah, some industry news, man, on a holiday week. I like it. We got Google, we got workday, and now we got a little bit of an acquisition with Top Tall. I

Chad Sowash (28:43.446)

That's good stuff. That's good stuff. Yeah. Well, I mean, it and kind of like hearkening back to Hack A Jobs, Bump, right? Where they launched Arch Archer. And they and when they did that, within a 90-day time time frame, they were able to add a million, which for you know, startup good good to ARR, a million in ARR. But then they broadened their TAM, much like you're talking about because because

Joel Cheesman (29:09.549)

Uh-huh.

Chad Sowash (29:12.426)

Tech's a problem right now, right? So they went from they went to two big two big areas being sales and customer service. so I mean being able to watch the pivots, the growth of the TAM, and then also I think Top Tall squeezing this this niche through consolidation, it's fun to watch, man. It really is.

Joel Cheesman (29:36.491)

It is fun to watch. I need a break, Chad. If you're not subscribed to us, what's wrong with you? whatever your platform of podcast listening is, plug in. You can also check us out on YouTube at youtube.com slash at Chad Cheese. Leave us a review and sign up for free stuff after you do it at Chadcheese.com slash free. We'll be right back.

Chad Sowash (29:38.99)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (29:43.128)

Can't watch me drink beer. Come on.

Chad Sowash (29:57.378)

Wish Joel a happy birthday. Come on.

Joel Cheesman (30:02.155)

Stepstone Group is expanding AI assisted recruitment screening while publicly ensuring full compliance with the EU AI Act. Thank God we have someone from the EU on the show emphasize emphasizing transparent, explainable AI with human oversight and recruiter control. Meanwhile, indeed has updated its terms of service to document AI-assisted and autonomous application workflows for sponsored jobs.

The quote, apply for me, end quote tool uses AI to answer screening questions, generate applications, and potentially submit them automatically. If you blink, you could miss all the AI goodness in our industry, Chad. Stepstone and Indeed News. Give us a hot take.

Chad Sowash (30:44.046)

my God. I mean, if you're if you're a CEO and you want to drink yourself, just go ahead and say, hey, we're compliant with that, whatever it is, right? I mean So here's a quote from Stepstone Sebastian. How am I still CEO Detmers? over over at Stepstone. this is what he said on LinkedIn. Quote, because trust is non-negotiable, we made sure that

Joel Cheesman (30:54.39)

doth thou protest too much?

Chad Sowash (31:10.786)

This fully complies with the EU Act, which I think you said it's fair, transparent, and explainable AI that you can actually rely on. End quote. Big fucking promises. I'm a huge fan of AI. I use it every day. But let's dig into some great research I found over at ropes in Gray that I believe outlines indeed's matching, smart fit score, and stepstones AI assessment as you know.

Joel Cheesman (31:17.239)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (31:40.684)

Really being AI shaped decis decision making instead of AI assisted. First, let's talk about automation bias. And let's be honest when Indeed or Stepstone hands a recruiter a ranked list or a scored list of top 10 candidates, nobody's looking at number 11 through 500. They trust the machine, they're busy, they gotta go, right? Article 14 calls bullshit on.

Joel Cheesman (31:42.616)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (32:01.709)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (32:09.982)

It's explicitly mandates that humans must combat automation bias. the real problem is that AI is being applied where it doesn't need to be. It's over-engineered for no fucking reason. Either through these ridiculous assessments or indeed's magic scoring system. it not to and and there, this is just driving me fucking crazy.

Joel Cheesman (32:17.443)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (32:32.568)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (32:38.956)

Their fake resume maker, along with we can go ahead and apply for all these jobs with your fake resumes. It's just fucking crazy. Anyway, in the case of Stape Stepstone, my advice to enterprise companies is stop using any tool that will complicate the process. Having an AI-assisted screener literally makes no sense, especially when the screening should be as easy as asking the candidates.

Joel Cheesman (32:42.347)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (32:49.495)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (33:07.649)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (33:07.97)

Do they meet the fucking requirements? That's all you care about, right? You you're worried about compliance. Well, the compliance is do they meet the requirements? So we need to get back to the keep it simple, stupid method and stop buying this over-engineered bullshit. And in the case of Indeed, my advice for companies is to take control. Take control. Stop leaning on Indeed. Perform the matching within your tech, within your own tech.

Joel Cheesman (33:11.128)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (33:25.261)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (33:37.044)

system, your own system of record. And then for the love of fucking God, rewrite your job postings with firm, not sloppy requirements, and stop allowing outside systems to arbitrarily quote unquote score your candidates. good luck on explaining that, indeed scoring, to any auditor that's out there, right? So the answer is stop leaning hard on companies like Stepstone and Indeed.

Joel Cheesman (33:38.989)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (33:58.177)

Uh-huh.

Chad Sowash (34:05.848)

They're not here to help. They're here to suck your budget dry. It's really fucking simple.

Joel Cheesman (34:13.751)

Tell us how you really feel, Chad. You're on a roll. How many beers is that? Keep them coming, man. Keep them coming. If that's if that's any if that's any preview of the rest of the show, like keep them, keep them coming. You know, we're we're in a the what's the old adage? just be just because you can doesn't mean you should. we're we're in this weird arms race in our industry where everyone is trying to outdo the other one to to be able to at least look like we're not falling behind.

Chad Sowash (34:15.65)

Ha ha

This is just this is number two. I'm so excited.

Joel Cheesman (34:43.115)

So the world is AI, we're AI, we're automation, we're like that's what we are, because either customers are begging for it, which I'm a little skeptical of, or the investors in the market are saying that's what we need, or there's a little bit of panic, like revenues are down, we need to do something kind of drastic, or any any combination of of the two.

Chad Sowash (34:54.382)

No. No.

Joel Cheesman (35:06.945)

I don't know Stepstone as well as as you do. I'm gonna guess that most of their clients are European based or at least non US based. Yep.

Chad Sowash (35:14.038)

Most German, you've got German and UK and Irish. They've got like three major sites. I I think those are their their their major their major areas.

Joel Cheesman (35:21.975)

Yeah. So if so if if I'm in employment and I have to like combat US companies that have different regulations, I assume they they spin it to where they are in a country, but if it's remote workforce, so Europe is in this weird place of we have regulations and we have guardrails that a lot of the rest of the world doesn't have. So how do we look like we're hip and cool with the new tech, but maybe can't do it because of government regulation? Like

I f I feel for European companies because they're in this weird place of regulation that some parts of the world aren't. I'm seeing things in Europe that tell me they're leaning more like I don't want to say this to you, but they're th it feels like they're becoming more American. I see I see news that Sweden is more capitalistic than they have been a long time. I see news about immigration in France being shut down. I see Britain begging to come back to the EU, red tape getting cut so that they can make AI that

Chad Sowash (36:07.63)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (36:16.397)

They don't have to rely on our AI companies. So you see. So it's a really interesting time to be in Europe. And I think Stepstone is just sort of a a s a small piece of what's going on in that. But I I'll rely on you for the stepstone stuff. For Indeed, we talked about this last week that the monopoly pricing power that Indeed has, I don't think many people would argue. The argument if you did was it's a duopoly, not a monopoly. And the duopoly is LinkedIn and Indeed. So

Chad Sowash (36:18.956)

Yes. Mistral.

Joel Cheesman (36:45.151)

Indeed came out late last year with Talent Scout, Job Scout, or whatever they called it. And then LinkedIn LinkedIn Recruiter. LinkedIn recruiter came out. So to me, it's like those two are in an arms race of who can AI out, who can out AI the other, who can offer stuff more fast, quicker than the other. I think that they're both in unique situations in regards to their their main customers and who uses them. why you go to LinkedIn, pref.

Chad Sowash (36:47.886)

Which they renamed like twenty seven times. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (37:13.325)

primarily versus when why you go to to Indeed primarily. But all this is really coming to a head and we'll talk about this I think after the break of AI is really it has an image problem that that's both real and perception. So I I'm really interested to see how customers and customers of HR tech and the vendors who use the A who's who use the AI, how governments react to this stuff, how the laws get passed. Like it's a

L may you live in interesting times. This is a very interesting time for AI. And these two companies and these store two stories I think are microcosms. we'll go right into the macro stuff in a bit, but AI is getting messy and this is I think just a piece of what we're seeing in our space.

Chad Sowash (37:56.63)

Yeah, and I I think it's interesting because as I spend more time in the in the EU, in Europe, we have this discussion around legislation versus registr versus litigation. And that's the thing, is that at least in Europe, you know what the fucking rules are. In the US, you don't know what the rules are, right? There are no rules. If there are no rules

Joel Cheesman (38:17.357)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (38:23.052)

More than likely you're gonna get litigated. You're gonna be taken to fucking court. And we are a very litigious country. So what would you rather have? Would you rather have guidelines in which to know what you can do or what you can't do, or whether you would would you rather go in blindfolded and find yourself in a court? You know what I mean? It and depending on the company, they might want one versus the other. but that's the difference. You've got legislation versus litigation.

Joel Cheesman (38:28.578)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (38:50.305)

Yeah. And our current administration has basically said no no rules is the rule. And we have states, which we'll also talk about, states saying, well, not so wait, hold on, not so fast. And the narrative here is we have to out AI China. It's not a European US conversation. It's we can't let China out out innovate us in AI. and I think Europe, it's we can't get totally left behind.

Chad Sowash (38:56.974)

yeah. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (39:02.03)

Stop.

Joel Cheesman (39:18.635)

with the red tape that we currently have. But I agree with you. Knowing the rules of the road is a nice thing. The US with tariffs, immigration, geopolitical tension, like part of the economy is we don't know what the hell's going on. And companies are fearful of of doing anything. But let's let's get to some macro talk about AI.

Chad Sowash (39:28.776)

You're off roading.

Chad Sowash (39:39.244)

Okay. Whew.

Joel Cheesman (39:40.267)

AI news isn't just for HR Tech vendors, of course, Chad. So here are some highlights from the larger economy. Companies aggressively pushing maximum AI use are facing skyrocketing costs. Microsoft and Uber are already scaling back after burning through budgets. Turns out AI's real cost problem might be using the tech is actually more expensive than paying the human beings. And in California,

Governor Newsom issued an executive order directing California to prepare workers, small businesses, and communities for the economic disruption that AI will bring to the workforce and society as a whole. And even Pope Leo from the south side of Chicago is giving public speeches about the risks of AI on humanity. Talk about an image problem. Chad, what's your take on all the negative news around AI?

Chad Sowash (40:33.1)

I hit the easy ones first because when the Pope speaks, you gotta talk about the Pope first. he he's like the adult in the room. The chur the church in this case is like the adult in the room. they've been talking about disarming nuclear capabilities for decades and now they see AI as pretty much like a nuclear capability. then we also saw Anthropic's co founder speak before the Pope and and he talked about three things.

Joel Cheesman (40:37.613)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (41:02.614)

Mass labor displacement, global inequality, and autonomous weapons. We're already seeing that. Right? This is already happening. It's already coming to a head. California, Gavin Newsom, this is all talk, no walk. That's all this is. They're they're trying to get people prepared. It's like, Jesus fucking Christ, do something, right? and and I think for me.

Joel Cheesman (41:11.245)

Uh-huh.

Chad Sowash (41:31.81)

This all comes down to the cost. Okay. We've got politicians talking about shit, not doing anything. We've got the Pope trying to wait. He can't do anything, but he wants to bring attention to it. But we take a look at the cost. And here's a great quote from Jason Kubler over at 404 Media. Literally, that just came out before the before we we press record. the article is called Lobotomized. Character.ai is showing what a

AI and shidification looks like. And here's the quote: ads everywhere, usage limits, frustrating guardrails, as AI companies are hit with regulations, lawsuits, and the overwhelming expense of running their services, they are making their products much worse. What's happening to one of the most popular chat apps in the is a glimpse at the near future of an industry that can't figure out the economics.

Its product end quote. Now, that was the user experience, and that was the business experience too. How about from the corporate side of the house? Well, it's apparent that AI we're in an AI revolution that has entered into the harsh financial reality phase. And I gotta say that if you didn't see this coming with all the fucking burn rates that have been being pushed out there, you weren't paying attention, kids.

Joel Cheesman (42:58.583)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (42:59.308)

The promise of cost cutting is being undermined by the high price of compute and tokens token-based billing, which is just forcing major tech firms to reconsider how freely they actually allow their employees to use this tech. Companies are running out of budget. They're cutting a headcount of Facebook to actually spend more money on compute. Age agentic AI.

Joel Cheesman (43:22.315)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (43:28.448)

runs several tasks at a time, which means it use more t uses more tokens. It's smarter, it's better, but it's expensive. This is I mean, this is like the whole crumbling of what's happening with a lot of these companies. And this is where when we're talking about the open AIs of the world, I I don't know how they get out of this hole.

Joel Cheesman (43:46.36)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (43:54.743)

I think I was on with I think I was on with Mo and I talked about in my lifetime any any new technology that came along, it was optimistically viewed, at least by the young people. I could go on like what those are iPod, digital cameras, email. Like no one said this is destroying the world. There was optimism around it. AI is the first thing that I've seen where the kids are mad about it. And I've documented on the show like, destroy the environment.

Chad Sowash (44:03.261)

yeah. Yes.

Chad Sowash (44:14.638)

No.

Joel Cheesman (44:23.939)

Kids kind of like the environment. Destroy jobs, kids like jobs. destroy creativity and opportunities and creative fields, like kids are really creative. So when we see speeches at campuses and students booing, it's no surprise to me. But to me, that says there's a real, there's a real problem, not just image problem with this tech, but people are going to find ways to advance their interest because of it. And I think when I look at the newsome stuff, I think.

Well, tell me you're running for president without telling me you're running for president. It doesn't really matter if it doesn't have any teeth. If he can go on a debate stage and say, in California, we tried to take a stand around help, you know, helping people with AI and and the people who are gonna be unemployed. Yeah, so a a as long as he can say we've we're doing things or we're we're it we're imp we're in we're putting in things that will help people in AI. I mean, right now there are fourteen states that are opposing data centers. That's gonna grow.

Chad Sowash (45:05.036)

World's fourth largest economy. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (45:22.603)

And and I can tell you here in the Midwest, I know you've seen it, you saw it when you were here shortly. Like states are not happy about the water that's used, the energy that's used. And we're seeing stories about, you know, shitty looking water that people have to drink, water pressures down, can't take a good shower. And anyone who's traveled knows the the pain of a tra a shower that doesn't give you some good pressure. as well as higher electricity and energy costs. Like this is a bad thing for a lot of people.

Chad Sowash (45:26.262)

Indiana, yeah. No.

Chad Sowash (45:34.99)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (45:49.195)

Not everyone is anthropic or or NVIDIA. and this is only gonna to come again. The Pope is not a political position. The Pope in my lifetime rarely comes. Now they'll talk about war, don't kill each other, but to talk about AI as a threat to humanity, like that's kind of a new thing. You know, they never came out about the iPod and say, I don't do the iPod because that's gonna kill you. Or Facebook, yeah, don't do social media. don't don't click a QR code because that's gonna really screw things up. So

Chad Sowash (46:10.124)

Or Facebook. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (46:19.073)

I don't know where this goes. I mean, you have an administration, you have basically the stock market is being propped up by about a dozen companies that are all AI or AI adjacent companies. People are getting rich. The the those folks are going to China with Trump. Who knows what the hell was going on, you know, and and but in closed door sessions with them. And then you have the the little people, if you will, say, This is bullshit. Like I this is this is not great. And now you have politicians in the middle.

Chad Sowash (46:28.331)

Yes.

Joel Cheesman (46:47.821)

trying to get elected and keep just so this is the world's a weird place, man. And this is this is more of the weirdness that we'll continue to talk about with AI. It's no longer this panacea of hope and optimism. It's like, wait a minute, maybe this isn't so great.

Chad Sowash (47:02.318)

Bring back boring. That's that's that's that's my campaign promise.

Joel Cheesman (47:11.627)

All right, guys. By the way, Canadian province that wants to secede, they're gonna actually vote on it. starts with an A. Shit. British Columbia. Alberta, yes, thank you. I was gonna say I want to say Edmonton. Yes. So they needed 10% signatures, which they got. So there will be a vote in Alberta to secede from from Canada. So yeah, it gets it gets weird everywhere.

Chad Sowash (47:24.428)

Alberta? Su succeed from Canada?

Chad Sowash (47:39.318)

So stupid. So stupid.

Joel Cheesman (47:41.889)

All right, let's take a quick break and we'll talk more future shit.

Joel Cheesman (47:50.083)

All right, Chad's ordered another beer, so we need to like wrap this shit up soon. the EU's climate commissioner has told the twenty-seven country bloc that the way out of the energy crisis fueled by the wars in Iran and Ukraine is homegrown energy, and that the EU must accelerate its transition away from fossil fuels. While saving the planet is part of the conversation, green energy is now highlighted as a national security imperative.

Chad Sowash (47:54.743)

I'm good.

Chad Sowash (48:05.378)

Yes.

Joel Cheesman (48:16.341)

insulating economies from geopolitical blackmail and price chaos caused by yours truly over here in America and other unstable fossil fuel regions. Chad, is alternative energy here to save the West or as Trump says, is it just here to kill the birds and ruin your landscape?

Chad Sowash (48:26.658)

Jesus.

Chad Sowash (48:36.632)

Let's talk about jobs first. Let's let's do that. And then we'll get then we'll get to the rest of it. the global transition toward clean energy has evolved into a high stakes race between China, Europe, and the US. While all three regions are breaking deployment records, the growth strategies, manufacturing footprints, and job creation engines look vastly different. And according to data from Irina ILO.

Joel Cheesman (48:38.071)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (49:04.437)

Which renewable energy and jobs annual review, global clean energy employment has climbed to sixteen point six million jobs, heavily concentrated in those three regions US, Europe, and China. Can you guess which one has the biggest concentration, Joel? Bueller. Yeah. Of creation. China. China.

Joel Cheesman (49:26.507)

Jobs Europe. Yeah, Europe.

Chad Sowash (49:32.654)

Created 7.4 million jobs and they added 434 gigawatts of capacity in 2025. Is number two, so China 7.4, Europe number two at 1.8 million jobs. Renewables officially passed coal, which is awesome, right? They're getting off the coal, the clean, the clean coal.

Joel Cheesman (49:43.491)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (50:00.902)

and US created 1.1 million jobs. the countries that deserve a shout-out though for rapid acceleration in the in this area are Denmark, who generates 92.4% of its electricity from renewables. 92.4% primarily driven by massive offshore and onshore wind power. Austria, which sits at 83.1% renewable electricity.

Joel Cheesman (50:19.831)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (50:30.19)

they're utilizing a robust blend of traditional Alp alpine hydropower. You got all that water rushing down the mountains, and rapidly growing solar and wind grids. And then last but not least, get ready, kids. That's right. Portugal. Portugal reached 82.9%. 82.9% renewable electricity.

Joel Cheesman (50:44.514)

Ready.

Chad Sowash (50:55.486)

capitalizing on a diverse mix of wind, solar, and hydro resources, creating jobs and strategic energy independence. That's what I'm fucking talking about, man. That's what it, that that's what it's about. We've got this whole Strait of Hormuz thing that's happening right now. This shit goes away if we become energy independent. And I I like how a lot of these countries have been thinking about that for a while and they're being very aggressive about it.

Joel Cheesman (51:21.847)

Mm-hmm.

Yep. did you know that half the world's smokers are in China? And it's the only country where they're growing the number of smokers in the world? Anyway, I don't know if that has any impact on on the on the the green energy revolution or not. But yeah, I th I found that interesting that Chinese they love they love their smoking. They love the nicotine.

Chad Sowash (51:30.382)

What?

Chad Sowash (51:36.653)

Weird.

Chad Sowash (51:42.766)

That is that is weird. I they're more European smoking. I thought Europeans would be less smokers than Americans. No, they smoke like fucking chimneys over here. Yeah. And Russians, yeah.

Joel Cheesman (51:51.841)

Yep. For sure. There's a lot of Chinese, which is why I should have guessed Chinese, because there's a lot more Chinese to have jobs. These jobs and Russians. I it's it's interesting to me that the the narrative has gone from save the world to like save your ass. And this is a this is a security issue for these countries. And it certainly is for for Europe. And I think and I think, you know, j just look at geopolitical tensions to know like

Chad Sowash (52:11.374)

Yeah. Yeah. It's where we should have started.

Joel Cheesman (52:19.799)

Who who has thought through this? I mean, China probably has an unknown amount of reserves that they are fine with for probably quite a while as the Hormuz remains closed. The challen the challenge with all of this is that in 1971, Nixon got us off the gold standard. The gold standard backing the dollar had been sort of the historical standard for a long time. And all the European, all of our allies.

Chad Sowash (52:28.77)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (52:47.319)

Had their dollars in gold and everything was sort of safe in that way. 71 Nex Nixon says we're off the gold standard, we're on, and the petrol dollar becomes the standard. So what does that mean? It means all oil has to be traded in dollars. Kissinger went over to Saudi Arabia and made a deal and said, Hey, we'll protect you as long as you trade in dollars. And that's been the standard since the 70s. If the world ever goes off of an oil

Energy standard, the dollar and the US is proper fucked. Because if all the dollars start coming back to America inflationary, you ain't seen nothing yet. if if ever if all these countries that own our treasuries start stop buying and start sending them back, like there's gonna be a problem. So when you see Trump or any politician in America say, like, it's a hoax, it's bullshit, it's killing the birds.

Chad Sowash (53:25.771)

yeah.

no.

Joel Cheesman (53:44.385)

None of that is about the environment. It's about the hegemony of the US dollar. And that is what is like scary as an American, is that you'll never see us go off of oil in a big way because our dollar is tied to that source and that power. So what we're seeing is a total fragmentation of what's going on. And and when you see these swap, the swaps about news.

Chad Sowash (54:01.324)

Fucking Nixon.

Joel Cheesman (54:08.897)

Like the UAE wants to swap dollars. That's because they don't want to sell we don't want them to sell their dollars or give their dollars. We want them to keep them so our dollar remains strong. Like all of this is all money and who owns the like power struggle, the world. So while the while, you know, the American me like, okay, I get it. Like we don't want clean energy because we're kind of fucked in that scenario. But the human in me says, like, well, this is where the world's going anyway. let's let's let's have it. How can we be a be a leader in it? But

Chad Sowash (54:08.942)

Mm.

Chad Sowash (54:22.668)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (54:38.455)

When I look at these stories, I don't look at jobs, I don't look at saving the world. I s I look at the US dollar and how the whole world is basically based on the US dollar and going off of oil means that that collapses.

Chad Sowash (54:43.854)

Well it can't be that

Which means the US crumbles, pretty much.

Joel Cheesman (54:55.521)

Which you could argue is happening. Which you could argue the the the American Empire, Pax Americana, is crumbling right before our eyes. And we'll see what comes out of Iran, but it lo it's it feels a little more surrenderish to me than a deal that's advantageous for us.

Chad Sowash (54:57.539)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (55:05.404)

Ooh.

Chad Sowash (55:14.242)

Yeah. it's what happens when you send a clown into a boardroom to fucking negotiate.

Joel Cheesman (55:23.853)

Play play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Am I right? Sorry to bring us down on birthday. Let's let's let's come back. Let's bring it back with a with a dad joke. Chad, I'm I'm gone in June, so I thought I'd get a little naughty, a little naughty with the jokes. I've been pretty clean lately. What's the difference between an enzyme and a hormone? What's the difference between an enzyme and a hormone?

Chad Sowash (55:28.044)

Always.

Chad Sowash (55:31.522)

Come on, come on.

Chad Sowash (55:38.742)

no.

Chad Sowash (55:49.907)

Mm I don't know. That's a that's a new one.

Joel Cheesman (55:53.185)

You can't hear an enzyme.

Chad Sowash (55:55.23)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (55:59.585)

Happy birthday, my brother. Get that dog under control back there. We out.

Chad Sowash (56:00.174)

Dog didn't like that one. Dog didn't like that one. We out.