top of page
Indeed Wave.PNG
2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

T-Mobile vs. JB Hunt

Ho, ho, holy hell it's been a while since Chad & Cheese were on the mic together, but the boys are back in the saddle again, tackling the following topics like only they know how: Facebook shutting down its job board outside North America, Kronos getting hit by a ransomware attack, Turing becoming the latest unicorn, JB Hunt playing Scrooge, T-Mobile playing good ol' St. Nick and the Army kicking COVID's ass.

Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol!!!

As always, your favorite podcast is powered by great sponsors like Sovren, JobAdX, and Jobvite.


Disability Solutions provides comprehensive website accessibility testing with personalized recommendations to enhance usability for people with a variety of disabilities or situational limitations.

SFX (1s):

Hallelujah Holy shit. Where's the Tylenol?

INTRO (6s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (24s):

We're back. Well, if you're listening to this, you're either hung over from the holidays or escaping the in-laws. Hi boys and girls, it's your favorite secret Santas, and you're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your co-host Joel "nacho Grande" Cheeseman.

Chad (41s):

This is Chad "back in the saddle again" Sowash.

Joel (44s):

And on this week show Facebook gets out of the job board business, Kronos pulls a CareerBuilder, and you guessed it holiday unicorns, baby.

Chad (56s):


Joel (57s):

Let's do this. Oh shit.

Chad (1m 5s):

This is it. Getting pumped up!

Joel (1m 11s):

The boys are back.

Chad (1m 18s):


Joel (1m 19s):

Oh yeah after a little holiday break. Chad, why don't we let the listeners know what we've been up to?

Chad (1m 24s):

You know you just got back so the first sound effect is hallelujah.

SFX (1m 31s):

Oh yeah. Where's the Tylenol.

Joel (1m 34s):

That's to say that I'm recovering a little bit less than 24 hours after leaving Cancun would be an understatement. So yeah, I, two head fakes in terms of getting the hell out of Indiana.

Chad (1m 46s):

Thank God.

Joel (1m 46s):

I was able to go to Mexico with my three kids, by the way, a four year old and Cancun is a whole new level of interesting. I met up with some of our Canadian in-laws, which was great. So it was nice to get away. I think I've contracted a bit of a cold from my kid, who had the snots, speaking of vacation, Christmas vacation, and the dog snots, which four year olds, don't don't ever, you know, pull back sneezes and coughs on their parents. So I've got a little bit of that, but we tested negative for COVID. So at least I'm not Omicron friendly at the moment.

Chad (2m 23s):

That's awesome. Last Friday, we definitely missed you. We had Peter "Mr. ATS" Gold, who stepped in for you, while you were vacationing, I was still in the fucking fog from being in Europe for three weeks. So hopefully we'll get back in somewhat the saddle again or this week. And it's funny because some people actually reached out and thought we had a breakup or something. I wasn't on the Europe podcast and you weren't on last week's Friday podcast. So everybody is like, Hey, what's up?

Joel (2m 58s):

Hey, they noticed! That's good news. They noticed that we weren't on the show together. I was nice to just take a little holiday. It's Christmas time. And it's what better episode than to like get our legs back then right before Christmas?

Chad (3m 12s):

This is the 192nd Chad and cheese episode of 2021. So I'm sure they noticed!

Joel (3m 22s):

Yeah, it only feels like a million. Well, I think we do shout outs first. Shall we get to that?

Chad (3m 27s):

Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Right out of the gate. I've got a quick iCIMS story. We were in the Farro airport going from Farro. We were going to Paris for a couple of days before we came home and Julie going through security lost my iCIMS Yeti. Apparently she had some ice. She likes to put the Yeti in the freezer and then pull it out and put water in it. Well, she got all the water out of it, but there was still a, like a half inch of ice in the bottom. And they were like, yeah, that's not going to fly. And they took the ice and Yeti. I posted immediately to Twitter that a we lost it. And the next thing I know, I get a box and I've got two new iCIMS coolers.

Chad (4m 13s):

Yeah. A little Yeti, like, and yeah. It's, it's pretty awesome. So thanks. Thanks guys.

Joel (4m 18s):

So you, you may have just blown my mind. Okay. So Julie puts an empty, empty Yeti in the freezer.

Chad (4m 26s):

No, It has a little water in it because she likes ice. Right? So she puts the Yeti in the freezer with a little water, which obviously makes ice. So when she gets up, all she has to do is put water in it. It's cold and boom, she's out. Well, she did that and the ice didn't melt and we lost a Yeti.

Joel (4m 43s):

That blows my mind. I've got a new way to fucking fill my Yeti with cold cold water now. Thanks Julie. Yeah. Merry Christmas. All right, dude. So I've been out for a week. My shout outs are really sparse, but I've got like one really important news story. And you know what that bell means. It means Taco Bell news. So the one that is that actually caught my eye this week, Taco Bell got rid of the Mexican pizza a couple of years ago.

Chad (5m 13s):


Joel (5m 13s):

Probably my favorite item on the Taco Bell items, which I enjoy pretty much all of them. Well, news came out this week. I'm ready to get ready to be blown away, they're bringing back the Mexican pizza, but also Chad, they're adding wings to the Taco Bell menu!

Chad (5m 31s):

Oh come on!

Joel (5m 33s):

Holy Shit!

Chad (5m 34s):

That's just too much! Yes

Joel (5m 37s):

Happy holidays to me.

Chad (5m 38s):

That's just too much. Come on. Yes. Happy holidays to Joel. Happy holidays to me. You probably have all of this stuff somewhere in your house, but we've got PillarHR swag, Jobcase, sent three bottles of wine, a handwritten card they're so classy John Thurman, the co-host of the sociat half-hour podcast send a handwritten card and in a coaster, John, you got to send beer buddy coaster's are great but we need beer. Not to mention Santa Joel was in t-shirt delivery mode before setting off for vacation. So I've seen the Chad and Cheese t-shirts landing on doorsteps, mailboxes and in the social media feeds all over the place.

Chad (6m 25s):

Thanks to So you, you got those babies out there.

Joel (6m 30s):

Yeah. I had a goal of these are all going out. So pretty much anyone at least state side should have got on the t-shirt or will shortly for the holidays. And thank you to Emissary. I called up Hugh and I said, dude, we're out of shirts, we got tons of people that want them. Let's do a holiday miracle and get these shirts printed up and get them out. So hands big, big applause to our friends at Emissary for making that happen. Should we mention the Jobcase via vino both got yeah.

Chad (7m 4s):

Three, three bottles of wine from Jobcase and a handwritten card. That's classy.

Joel (7m 8s):

So they're there now my wife's favorite company, I said, honey, you need to pick a sponsor, like to actually be your favorite. She's like, Nope, Nope. And by the way, you have to be really secure in your manhood to wear the Pillar sweat shirt. It's a nice shade of pink-ish. So I'll be a sportin that at the local local pub.

Chad (7m 26s):

As soon as I opened the box, Julie stole it. I don't even have it, I don't even have it.

Joel (7m 32s):

Yeah. If I wasn't like four sizes bigger than my wife, she might've done the same thing. Speaking of a t-shirts dude, we had some winners that we failed to mention in the holiday break that we had here. So.

Chad (7m 46s):

Bring it.

Joel (7m 47s):

We got a beer winner. Our new beer sponsor is Pillar. Speaking of manly sweatshirts, Michael Mullady at UKG actually here in Indianapolis won one.

Chad (7m 57s):

Love that guy!

Joel (7m 59s):

Free Beer this month, we'll try to schedule a tasting. And Rob Bursey one whiskey from our friends at Sovren/Textkernal. You remember they were acquired recently trying to get something scheduled with him as well. So congratulations and happy holidays to those folks.

Chad (8m 16s):


Joel (8m 16s):

And we'd be remiss to not also mentioned our latest giveaway.

Chad (8m 22s):

This is time sensitive.

Joel (8m 24s):

This is good. You're on the clock people! Were giving away scotch. We're talking about the water of life out of Scotland. Our friends at CandidateID said, Hey, screw the bourbon we want to give away some scotch this year. So if you just go to, is there a better URL for that? Although the folks at 3m might come get us., put in your address so we know where to send the booze. You can win one of three, $1,000 retail price of Scotch. Even if you don't like scotch, this is going to make a great gift for a loved one. Maybe an investment who knows?

Joel (9m 5s):

Get out to today and sign up.

Chad (9m 11s):

Don't forget. There's still Chad and Cheese gear, beer and bourbon out there. Gear by Beer by Pillar. Bourbon by Sovren/Textkernel. There, just go to register for everything guys. We love to give away shit to our listeners. So go get it.

Joel (9m 27s):

Oh yeah, we do. And we love seeing those social media posts. So if you haven't put something on LinkedIn or wherever, and you've got a shirt, what are you waiting for? Hashtag us @ChadCheese. If you do that. Well, Chad fantasy football is still a thing and we're down to our final four contestants. Since your final four participants are Chris "Nipsey" Russell who you'll remember was in last place in week one. So fantasy football is a marathon. It's not a sprint. The wonderful Miss Q who's pretty much been at the top the whole time, is a final four. And Jason Putnam, along with, your boy, Joel Cheeseman is a final four participant.

Joel (10m 14s):

We should have a winner shortly announcing the final two after this weekend.

Chad (10m 16s):

Ridiculous. I say ridiculous.

Joel (10m 17s):

Ridiculous, and we've got birthdays. Of course.

Chad (10m 20s):


Joel (10m 20s):

We've missed a few weeks. I'm going to rapid fire a bunch of birthdays for ya. Fans of the show. We got Matt Miller, Michael J. Cox, Jack Mahoney, Chase Johnson, Lars Koos Holland McCue James Hickman, Matt Grafflin, Angela, Mary Kelly, Nathan Budziak, Alison Padgett, Jeffrey Trayton, whose birthday is on the 25th. That kind of sucks. Tina Davis, Michael Smith, Monica Evgy who sports our t-shirt very well and loves us, even though she's a LinkedIn employee and all the grief that we give them.

Joel (11m 8s):

Kim Steward, Nick "8 is enough" Bradford, Torin Ellis, and Aaron Matos celebrate birthdays in December happy birthday everybody.

Chad (11m 15s):

It's a lot of December babies. Wow.

Joel (11m 18s):

I always felt sorry for people born on the 25th of December. If they are celebrators of Christmas.

Chad (11m 23s):

Just December period.

Joel (11m 24s):

Yeah. Yeah. My dad is on the 19th and he's like, I always got screwed. I got nothing for birthday and it just, yeah, it's just a bad scene.

Chad (11m 40s):

Poor guy.

Joel (11m 40s):

Yeah, poor guy, poor guy.

Chad (11m 44s):

TOPICS! Baby this week we got a big one. Our first story comes on the heels of last week's show where Peter, Mr. ATS Gold was slobbering all over Facebook jobs. Facebook jobs partners, vendors who provide Facebook with the bulk of their job content, they received an email earlier this week, alerting them that Facebook jobs would no longer be available coming this February. Imagine working with Facebook on getting everything right with your job feeds and then getting this slap in the face via email? Anyway, then Facebook posted in their business help section and the post pretty much outlined the following: what's changing?

Chad (12m 27s):

In short, you'll still be able to use Facebook jobs in the US and Canada only. Everything else is getting shut down on the 22nd of February. All of it, the app, the light version, the desktop D E D dead baby! What is not changing? If you're in the U S and Canada, nothing's changing. So, I mean, they have this long ass post, which really details what I just said. They're flipping the light switch off everywhere outside of the U S and Canada. What do you think?

Joel (12m 57s):

So I'm a little confused on this one. And you mentioned Mr. ATS being a fan. And I knew that there were a lot of fans. So we were actually at the launch in 2017 to TA tech meeting in Denver. If you remember, when Facebook came on and talked about the partners, they were bringing on ZipRecruiter and some ATSs, and then, you know, they reported global growth. The next year, they've added 40 countries since launching in 2017. We've also talked about how Facebook seems to still care about job postings, making feature updates over the past year.

Joel (13m 39s):

Employers I know have told me Facebook is the first real competitor to like Craigslist and other sort of entry-level type market jobs. And we know that marketplace, where jobs live is really popular, like a billion users a month popular. So this was kind of weird, but ultimately I think this is all about, and you'll love this, Facebook's bet on the Metaverse. The Metaverse to me is an all hands on deck, bet at all situation for Facebook. And they need the resources, the manpower, and woman-power to focus on the Metaverse in order to give it a fighting chance. It may actually be that simple.

Joel (14m 19s):

I mean, I think that jobs is a pain in the ass for a multitude of reasons, particularly outside of the US, where you have different governmental agencies and regulations and laws. We actually shared, I think, recently something at Riot Games, a job posting scam, where it was super legitimate looking of people, posting jobs as Riot Games, in this example.

Chad (14m 46s):


Joel (14m 47s):

They actually have letterhead and discourse accounts that look like Riot Games. Anyway, the point is like, I think there's a lot of layers when you start getting into the job posting thing that Facebook didn't want to touch, particularly on an international scale. Question, I guess, is, does shutting down the API means ZipRecruiter, like an early partner is in the cold now? I guess not in the US but obviously globally, they want to grow globally. I think that is a loss for them if that's the case, it's probably a big one for LinkedIn. It's probably a big one for Indeed, particularly globally and probably Google for jobs on a global scale.

Chad (15m 26s):


Joel (15m 27s):

That's my 2 cents.

Chad (15m 28s):

It's interesting that we're getting all these fucking head fakes from the big names. We had Google who had all these platforms/technologies in this space, and then they slimmed, they shut everything down. Other than just Google for Jobs. Prompts to Richard Collins, a former co-founder over at ClickIQ and currently a strategic advisor to Indeed, he actually predicted this would happen. He also commented that this week on the current shutdown and his comment was, I think the timing is interesting with the whole shift, to Meta, to your point. I can imagine that they are rethinking everything they're doing with an eye on the new future they have set out.

Chad (16m 12s):

And let's face it, the whole way we hire an advertise is all a bit 1990s. I agree. There's also a bunch of chatter in the groups that say that Facebook will be coming back to jobs, just not in this manner, that they want to make it bigger, that it's actually more hardwired into their platform as opposed to just marketplace. And I have to say, I'm not convinced. I know Facebook wants to be the internet much like AOL was back in the day, which means they need hiring, job search and workforce data. But I also remember 10 years ago when I was working directly with Facebook through the National Labor Exchange and creating the quote unquote "social jobs"

Chad (16m 54s):

partnership, and it was more smoke and mirrors than anything else, they were looking for connection to government. It wasn't really a real initiative that they put anything behind. So I'm pretty torn on where this actually goes. I can see where it does matter, but then again, you know, you see the Googles, you see the Facebooks and it's like, it just, it's just not big enough for that.

Joel (17m 14s):

So two questions I have, feel free to chime in. Number one is, are they done in the U S and Canada? They're just postponing that decision. And number two, what does this do to their, you know, gig platform that has been touted for so long? Does that get shelved as well?

Chad (17m 32s):

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe the US/Canada sticks around and that becomes the focal point on the new product? Right before they roll it out to everywhere else like they did before. It's hard for companies with the brain power and the money and the muscle, like a Google or Facebook to truly understand how hard jobs and hiring is. They don't get it. They don't understand the systems. It's incredibly antiquated and they just can't wrap their mind around it. Not to mention they want to work with everybody, right. They want to be all inclusive. Well, when you do that, you open yourself up to duplication gaming and a bunch of shit that they just don't understand.

Joel (18m 13s):

Yeah. My guess is there were probably contracts in place with US and Canadian partners and that they're more or less waiting for those to, you know, cancel or not cancel, but to just run out before they shut down the rest of the project? I have no information in terms of what the contracts were. But to me, it's probably like, well, we can't shut down because we have contracts with A, B and C and we don't want to be in court over the next, whatever, so just keep the thing going. So I think ultimately they're going to shut down the jobs component. And I also think that they're probably not going to move forward with any kind of gig platform, of note, because back to the Metaverse question, I think they're all in, on the Metaverse.

Joel (18m 54s):

Yeah. We know that Facebook is having a harder time hiring good people because of because their reputation, their negative reputation. So they need every hand they can get on this project and they're pulling them away from, you know, projects that don't really matter to them, which is jobs.

Chad (19m 10s):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that was Google's reasoning behind the curtain was that a cloud was so big and that was really where the money was. They needed all hands on cloud. Yeah.

Joel (19m 17s):

It reminded me of Google plus as well. There was a period where Google was like, everyone, hands on deck, Google plus, we're going to take on Facebook. And then they said, oh shit, that doesn't work. Let's do something else.

Chad (19m 36s):

Yeah. Screw that. Well to another company who doesn't have great news, this article comes from Fast Company. It was on December 14th. Kronos, a multinational national workforce management platform has been hit by a ransomware attack that, the company said could force its system offline for several weeks. The attack disrupted Workforce Central, UKG, TeleStaff, healthcare extensions and banking scheduling solutions. Holy fuck. Workforce Central is the software that employees use to schedule shifts, log absences, and clock in and clock out.

Chad (20m 19s):

Kronos has a long list of mega fucking huge companies like Tesla, MGM Resorts, Puma. I mean, the list goes on. The information tech focused website, ZDnet reported that multiple companies were unable to process payrolls though. And other sources said the outage could cause them to miss paychecks leading up to the holiday breaks. Clients get this though, clients were encouraged by Kronos to quote, "implement alternative business continuity protocols," end quote in the meantime. I mean, if you're a mammoth system like UKG, you've gotta be ready for this kind of shit.

Chad (21m 3s):


Joel (21m 3s):

Yeah. So talk about the Grinch that stole Christmas? Listeners, listeners will remember CareerBuilder who allegedly suffered a ransomware attack last year, sending corporate career sites into the abyss. That was a lump of coal for employers. But now we're talking about coal and the stockings of workers.

Chad (21m 20s):


Joel (21m 21s):

Without paychecks, ouch. Ransomware is a serious problem. I think bigger companies on a bigger companies can fight it. I mean, you mentioned UKG being huge and they are, if they're not Google, they're not Microsoft. Big companies can easily pay off attackers and kind of make it go away even if they were breached. The companies that service Enterprise clients are far less protected. You see healthcare systems being targeted. They have enough to pay the ransom, but they're too small to sort of have the protection that bigger companies do. If you're in this middle layer, you better bulk up your cyber security if you haven't already.

Joel (22m 1s):

And that's a whole lot of companies in our space.

Chad (22m 5s):


Joel (22m 5s):

That service enterprise level companies that can really, you know, throw a monkey wrench in the whole thing. If you're relying upon payments and everything going through a third party, you'd better make sure they are secure. So as you're doing your RPOs for 2022, ask that question, how are you guys protected against ransomware?

Chad (22m 24s):

Don't mess with people's money. I mean, seriously, if I were Kronos, I'd go at this at an entirely different way. I'd have my own set of hackers and mercs to identify the people who are involved, ransoming my shit. And then literally snuff out the situation.

Joel (22m 45s):

No doubt. We're going to hear more of this in 2022. All right. Let's take a quick break and unicorn alert. Get ready for it, just in time for Christmas. All right. Chad, there it is, we got another unicorn alert this week, just in time for the holidays. Palo Alto based Turing that's T U R I N G, which helps businesses hire and manage vetted remote developers, raised 87 million in a series D at a $1.1 billion valuation. Led by WestBridge Capital, a client company can post a job with specific requirements for technical skills, programming languages, et cetera, entering surfaces workers already screened through interviews and testing for those requirements.

Joel (23m 35s):

Turing noted its developer pool has grown nine times in the last 12 months, and that it now has more than 1 million developers in 140 countries. The company's customers include Johnson and Johnson, Coinbase, Rivian, and Dell and Disney. Turing supports 15 different job types and more than 100 technologies. Chad thoughts on Turing becoming the latest, but maybe not the last unicorn of 2021?

Chad (24m 1s):

I love their name and Alan Turing. I mean really defining AI in the 1950s with the Turing test, that I think that was pretty smart. It's pretty smart. I mean, anybody who's in the tech space should know that, right? So that makes sense. But you know, I think I've turned the corner on these types of platforms. Again, again, from the TechCrunch article quote demand continues to outpace supply. By 2030, that disparity will balloon to 85 million positions being unfilled. Okay. So Turing is not providing a solution to that problem. They are providing a solution for companies to test and assess candidates, but that's not the problem?

Chad (24m 46s):

Now is it? I believe platforms like Turing are great in helping companies get qualified people on board, but it does nothing to bridge the growing demand gap. So to me, this is just another run of the mill testing and assessment platform. And if your company sucks in those areas, when hiring tech talent, then Turing is one of many platforms you can check out, but this is just like putting your finger in the dam with 85 million other leaks springing up. Hacker Rank, Meetcode, Woven Teams, Code Signal, Metal, I Mocha and hell even dinosaurs like HireView have coding assessments.

Chad (25m 28s):

The answer to this problem is training and development of new tech. So that type of platform combined, training development combined with something like Turing is doing that excites me. And I think that is definitely worthy of a unicorn status. This is not, this is run of the mill. This is happening all over the place.

Joel (25m 48s):

Well, that's a sell, that's a sell for Chad Sowash, I love that you think 2030 is the goal man, 24 months to go public and get rich. Yeah, they might be thinking about 2030, but they're probably thinking more about 2024, '25. So from my perspective, remote software developers in a work from home world? Check. Helping higher in demand, software developers? Check. And those developers are vetted? Check. An executive team that would make any Silicon valley startup envious? Check. The future looks bright as far as I'm concerned, you're a visionary and maybe you're right about down the road, it not mattering, but these guys are obviously on their way to either being bought by somebody or an IPO, which we love to talk about on the Chad and Cheese podcast, 2030.

Joel (26m 34s):

Do you think we'll still be podcasting in 2030?

Chad (26m 38s):

I don't think that's the issue, right? I don't think 2030. I think we're looking down the road. The thing is they are pretty much stating that the demand is the problem. That demand that's outpacing the supply. Well, you're not providing any more supply, right? That's the big solution. If you want to make a shit ton of cash, if you want your valuation to go through the fucking roof, if you want to sell at a much higher valuation than the creation, the manufacturing of that talent, and then being able to onboard that talent. That's the fucking answer.

Joel (27m 15s):

I still think they're going to get rich. That's just me. Let's talk about the riches of a JB Hunt and T-Mobile.

Chad (27m 24s):

From the JB Hunt website actually I saw this, it was shared out on the socials earlier this week. JB Hunt Transportation Services, Inc, one of the largest supply chain solution providers in North America, announced that its subsidiary JB Hunt Transportation Inc provided nearly 10 million in appreciation bonuses today to company drivers, maintenance technicians, and full-time hourly employees" end quote. Happy holidays. Right? So this to me, this is just a bullshit smokescreen and $10 million sounds like a lot of money, right? JB Hunt has 20,000 drivers alone.

Chad (28m 4s):

We're not talking about mechanics and support staff and frontline staff, right? 20,000 drivers. So let's just take that number. Not the rest of them, just the 20,000 number. That's $500 per driver. They were a $1 billion company in 1993. They are now over $9 billion in 2019. So we have to get better at this. As an industry, we have to stop praising these types of charitable exercises and start applying pressure on wages. And here's a great example. $2 per hour wage increase at 40 hours a week is over $4,000 a year.

Chad (28m 47s):

As opposed to 500 bucks. We're talking about essential supply chain workers. We have to stop being happy with the crumbs and we have to stop allowing this smoke and mirrors bullshit to actually, you know, rise to fanfare.

Joel (29m 3s):

It beats a gift card to Applebee's I guess? I'll get to agreeing with you eventually. So whenever I hear about year end bonuses, I think of Clark Griswold getting screwed in National Lampoon's Vacation. One of the best dialogues in the history of film.

SFX (29m 21s):

Hallelujah, Where's the Tylenol?

Joel (29m 23s):

Anyway, I think you're going to hear more, a lot more about appreciation bonuses in the future. I think you're totally right. I just think companies, companies get a lot of wins with year-end bonuses. We know that employers really don't want to raise wages permanently. There are a lot of things that go with that, that they should do, but they don't, so dangling this carrot of year-end rewards accomplishes a few things for companies. One is it's PR