top of page
Indeed Wave.PNG
2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

The Big Slack-quisition

Did someone order a weekly podcast with extra Slack? This week, the boys dive headfirst into...

As always, your favorite podcast is sponsored by Jobvite, JobAdx, and Sovren.


Disability Solutions is your RPO partner for the disability community, from source to hire.

INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (21s):

Oh shit. No, we are not getting a pardon from the president so that damned underage drinking conviction will stand forever. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast, boys and girls. I'm your cohost Joel "already in line for the vaccine" Cheesman.

Chad (38s):

Yeah. I'm Chad "flying to the UK so I can get it first" Sowash.

Joel (42s):

And on this week's show, Salesforce throws a haymaker at Microsoft, giggers gone be a rich bitch, and you want some cheese with those wine jobs. Everyone needs more cheese in their diet, Chad, which is why only podcast with a side of cheese whiz.

Sovren (59s):

You already know that Sovren makes the world's best resume CV parser, but did you know that Sovren also makes the world's best AI matching engine? Only Sovren's AI matching engine goes beyond the buzzwords. With Sovren you control how the engine thinks with every match the Sovren engine tells you what matched and exactly how each matching document was scored. And if you don't agree with the way it's scored the matches, you can simply move some sliders to tell it, to score the matches your way. No other engine on earth gives you that combination of insight and control. With Sovren, matching isn't some frustrating "black box, trust us, it's magic, one shot deal" like all the others. No, with Sovren, matching is completely understandable, completely controllable, and actually kind of fun. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.

Chad (1m 58s):

We actually had a curve ball thrown at us from a Colin over at Crelate. We thought that we both received the same whiskey. We didn't.

Joel (2m 8s):

Oh no, no. He mixed it up on us.

Chad (2m 11s):

He mixed it up.

Joel (2m 12s):

Now yours was from the Northwest too, right?

Chad (2m 15s):

Yeah. Well, I got the Sherrywood Westland, which when you said it was biscotti and earthy, then I tried mine. I'm like, what does that motherfucker drink it? Cause this is not biscotti and/or earthy at all. So now, now I know. Thanks Colin!

Joel (2m 33s):

So what, what was, what was the profile of yours? Did it smell like angst and Nirvana?

Chad (2m 38s):

I wish. No, it, it was, it actually tasted like a very immature scotch before it got that peated shit. Right. And you know, one of the reasons why I don't like scotch is because of that peat ground taste. I don't like that. And this in this was absent of that. So it was very immature. So it was, it was actually pretty good.

Joel (3m 2s):

Alright. Alright. Shout outs.

Chad (3m 5s):

Okay. So rest in peace to Tony Shay, the Zappos CEO, he died at 46 and I'm like, dude, what did this dude die of? Well, he was in Connecticut and he died from his injuries that he sustained during a house fire.

Joel (3m 22s):


Chad (3m 23s):

You don't hear that often anymore. It must've been a big fucking house.

Joel (3m 28s):

No, that's pretty fucked up. You know, his legacy is pretty awesome. I actually toured the Zappos headquarters I dunno, 10, some years ago before, before Amazon acquired them. And you talk about like culture. These folks bled Zappos, and I mean, from the cubicles, it was sort of like the ideal nineties dream of what a workplace look like. Yeah. They gave tours of this place and the people really believed in what they were doing. I mean, Amazon came in and kind of fucked it up and they're not quite what they used to be. But Tony then took his, took his fortune and looked to rebuild Las Vegas, the downtown area, which has been revitalized, so, you know, I never met the guy, but everyone that knew him spoke really highly of him.

Joel (4m 21s):

So to be 46, at that age, and to be that sort of generous and visionary, we've really lost someone special. And yeah, you don't hear about house fire deaths very often. That's really a shame.

Chad (4m 35s):

Not at all. And, and you talk about somebody who's passionate about what they do. We actually just interviewed Tony, the Sherwin Williams guy who got fired for his big Tik Tok, believe that, 1.5 million followers. So we've got that interview coming up and it was, it was a great conversation. I'm really happy that he had his choice, to be quite Frank of where he could go in the paint industry.

Joel (5m 5s):

This TikTok is way bigger than mine. Not that that's saying a whole lot. Shout out to, to England, England. Thanks for, thanks for being the Guinea pigs for the vaccine. I guess we're gonna find out if this, this ends up in mass extinction first with the kids on the Island there in the Atlantic. So England, this is to you man. Take that shot and let us know how it goes. Yeah.

Chad (5m 28s):

Do you have anything to declare? Yeah, don't go to fucking England. So we've got a shout out to Tom Brown, he's the director of talent acquisition for VM ware in Singapore. Thanks for listening, Tom and recommending the show throughout all of your zoom journeys in Asia. Hopefully this time next year, we will be back at events and sharing the Chad and Cheese face to face.

Joel (5m 56s):

Speaking of Singapore Chad, you know, who's huge in Singapore?

Chad (5m 60s):

Is that a trick question?

Joel (6m 1s):

It's not citizen Dick from the movie Singles. It is Monster.

Chad (6m 7s):


Joel (6m 7s):

So a kin to the Dice press release about how awesome instant messaging was gonna was going to innovate your ass off. Monster had a press release this week about how huge they were in Singapore and that they were the number one job destination for, I believe roughly America's 20th largest trading partner. So Monster well on the way back, keep releasing those press releases, eventually you and Dice will convince all of us that you guys mean anything in the industry anymore.

Chad (6m 44s):

Lucky bastards, a shout out to LinkedIn for not policing its platform, again. At first we're talking about catfishing, then we're getting just nailed, left and right with a connections from salespeople, and then right after that, you get messaging. Now it's financial advisors. So I mean, we're getting an onslaught. I did a post on LinkedIn asking if everybody else was getting bombarded, like I was and the post blew up and people are apparently pissed. And, and this is because LinkedIn, somehow, I don't know how, but somehow they're tapping into maybe the sales leads or something.

Chad (7m 26s):

And next thing you know, we, the users get bombarded with shit.

Joel (7m 30s):

Yeah. So these are, these are automated tools. Now they are shotgun to the extreme, right? Like if you're going to connect with someone at least get in the contextual like universe of what you do to get financial people or just random marketing folks, or just because they're in the local area, they want to connect with me is not really targeted. And there should be some sort of algorithm where, Hey, if I send out a thousand, you know, req or connection request, and none of them get fulfilled that may be maybe something is going on and we should maybe put them in linked LinkedIn police for awhile, which isn't happening apparently.

Joel (8m 14s):


Chad (8m 14s):

Yes. The police, LinkedIn police.

Joel (8m 18s):

Big government, big LinkedIn, shout out to Mason Wong, big fan of the podcast. Big fan of everything that we do. We interviewed him a year or so ago. Around this time he turned 50 this week. I think so, man, you old son of a bitch. Keep on listening and shout out to you. Mason Wong.

Chad (8m 39s):

The big five 0 (50)

Joel (8m 41s):

The big five oh. We're Oh, we're knocking on the door. My friend,

Chad (8m 44s):

If you want to listen again. Mason Wong, incredibly smart, dude. Over at Lyft, just search on the new Chad and Cheese website for you've Wonged. That's his interview. Shout out to and Jasper Spanjaart for picking up what I was putting down in our last week's episode called Adecco Ménage à trois podcast. He quoting my stance on AI and automation in the article, which was titled AI under scrutiny, new law bill serves as quote "a call to all algorithms"

Chad (9m 28s):

end quote. So yeah, they were listening to pretty closely when we're talking about Hirevue and how they're fucking it up for everybody.

Joel (9m 36s):

Yeah. Nice shout out to Dr. Christine Zapata, going back to the Northwest. So a Dr. Zapata every Friday, they're in the Seattle area will go to a local business and leave a hundred dollars to credit the customers that come in after her to buy them their coffee sandwich, whatever. And I thought this was a really cool thing to shout out that people are doing little things to give back, to pay it forward, to do, to just be nice in 2020, because we're all in this shit show. And if you can give back, please do so.

Chad (10m 12s):

Amen. Amen. Shout out to your favorite Joel, Steven Rothberg. He shared a new way to market the Chad and Cheese in your pocket. He, he actually used Borats Rudy Giuliani scene, where he had his hands down, his pants. Yeah, classy, Steven, really classy.

Joel (10m 31s):

By the way, speaking of in your pocket, this is an opportune time to let the listeners know they gonna have Chad and Cheese in their pocket. All they need to do is text the letter, C and C to (833) 799-0321. That's Chad and Cheese in your pocket text CC to (833) 799-0321. Sorry. My dyslexia came through there, for a second. Shout out to Elon Musk. Your buddy who recently passed Bill Gates as the number two richest son of a bitch on the planet. So Elan baby, you crazy son of a gun, keep making that money, baby.

Chad (11m 12s):

Nothing like overpriced stock, right?

Joel (11m 16s):

He's coming for Bezos, baby. He's coming. He's coming for you.

Chad (11m 20s):

Big props to Gareth Peterson and David Roddy over at Caroo for creating the comma recruiter, a video series of positions that are designed to teach you how to be an attentive, sensual and giving recruiter.

Joel (11m 40s):

Yeah. I want you to try to visualize this for listeners.

Chad (11m 43s):

Oh my God. It's fucking hilarious. So think of it like seventies porn with the Kama Sutra as they wear latex, it was fucking hilarious as it was not something that you should show during any, you know, like all hands meeting or anything like that, but it was incredibly smart and funny. Great job guys over at Caroo.

Joel (12m 7s):

And that's If you want to check out these videos. So I needed to take about an hour long shower after I watched the video. And then I looked at some of the other videos. So they do a really creative job of a video. So there's one where Adidas is apparently a client and they go to the Adidas office and someone is actually working out with an Adidas rep for a video. And it's funny, right? Like he bench presses two pounds. He's on a treadmill looking at the cafeteria saying when's lunch? And so these guys are pretty funny and they, they utilize that in a really cool way. So for small companies that are trying to break through and get, get brand recognition, like you could do worse than what these idiots are doing with a video camera.

Chad (12m 53s):

Exactly, exactly.

Joel (12m 55s):

Shout out to Katrina Collier.

Chad (12m 60s):

Oh, yeah.

Joel (12m 60s):

Your buddy in the UK, who is, is this official now?

Chad (13m 4s):

Yeah, it's official.

Joel (13m 4s):

She's officially the first buyer of Chad and Cheese swag. She picked up a female cut t-shirt in blue. I believe

Chad (13m 15s):

Yeah, the powder blue.

Joel (13m 16s):

So Katrina. Thanks. Thanks for being our first and hopefully not only customer. And if you want to get more stuff, Chad, where should they go?

Chad (13m 23s):

They should go to up in the upper right hand corner just click on swag. Perfect, perfect place for holiday gifts. I mean, if you're looking at, I don't know, a Chad and Cheese trucker hat, maybe a beanie, coffee mugs. T-shirts, there's more coming. There's more coming.

Joel (13m 43s):

We're lobbying for that Speedo kids. I'm hoping to have it by, by summer, by summer. So this is probably a good time to, to drop all the free stuff. Things they can get from us on the show here, I'll start here with beerdrop, shout out to Beau Higgins. Beau is our November winner. Beau is a TA guy over at Amazon and he's got beer on the way. He went to, filled out the form. And that was it. And beer is on the way. So if you want your chance to get free beer and have a little zoom tasting with yours truly, head on out to today.

Chad (14m 24s):

That's exactly right. And kids, you've got to remember the Chad and Cheese love yet. You've been taking care of us, listening, sharing with your friends, doing all those crazy things, wearing latex. I mean that stuff we like to give things away. Like t-shirts go to click on free register for the t-shirts or maybe, I don't know, a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle.

Joel (14m 48s):

Get outta here. What are you talking about now?

Chad (14m 51s):

We've got two of them, two bottles, they retail for $2,200 a piece, if you can get your hands on them. And we did two bottles of Pappy Van Winkle and a bottle of Red Label Blanton's we're talking about the Japanese edition. Are we not? Yeah.

Joel (15m 11s):

Yep, we are. Yeah, we are. And let's mention the sponsors that make all of this shit happen. Go out to for a chance to win a t-shirt sponsored by our friends at Emissary. Free Pappy, of course, our buddies at Sovren, our bankroll on that whole thing. That's fantastic. And then our buddies at AdZuna are supporting a beerdrop and they are all working hard to destroy our livers. So thank you to our sponsors. We'll send the medical bills to you as well.

Chad (15m 42s):


Joel (15m 43s):

Topics! Big News!

Chad (15m 46s):

Didn't see this coming did ya?

Joel (15m 47s):

Big news. Yeah, we did see this one coming. We've talked about it for awhile.

Chad (15m 52s):

Yeah. So Salesforce acquires Slack. If you thought that 26.2 billion that Microsoft dropped for LinkedIn was a big number. How do you like 27.7 billion that Salesforce just dropped for Slack?

Joel (16m 9s):

Hello, Hello.

Chad (16m 10s):

It's roughly 10% of Salesforce is valuation. The news on this has sort of been covered. The real sort of criticism is, or the conversation is what happens now. Wall Street hated this deal, there were like seven analysts that came out the day of and said, we kind of don't like this deal.

Joel (16m 32s):

They got teams from Microsoft breathing down their neck. I think it's pretty obvious. This was, you know, this was a strike at Microsoft, by Salesforce who wants a piece of that enterprise pie. But what are your sort of initial thoughts on this and what it could look like and was it worth it? Are you buyer or seller of this deal. What's going on?

Chad (16m 52s):

Are a million different ways this thing could go and that's, and that's the hard part, right? The integration, the user process flow, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I wonder what their shared user base is? did you see that at all? Cause when I was doing research, I didn't see it.

Joel (17m 9s):

Yeah. So there was some comparison in that Slack tends to skew much smaller in company size and, and Salesforce tends to skew bigger. Now there was some criticism from analysts saying that there was a lot of customer overlap. Oh, I want to say that Slack has like 85 customers that are paying a million dollars or so, which is the big enterprise folks. So if, you know, if Slack could put a zero on that eight, eight 85 to make it 850, then it sort of starts to make sense. So I don't think there was a ton of overlap, but there certainly would have been some.

Chad (17m 44s):

Yeah. And any analyst who think that providing know a much larger of feature rich platform with, with huge marketplaces and with the overlap is a dumb idea is a fucking idiot because retention is key. And if you have a platform like Slack, that's out there and it goes to maybe a Google or something like that, who knows what they would do with it. They know who they want to compete against. And again, I, you know, I, I do think it's Microsoft, but overall we have to think of this from the standpoint of what's going to drive revenue, how did Salesforce start?

Chad (18m 27s):

It started as a company that sold software for sales teams. I mean, that's what it was. And then marketing followed. And then everybody followed after that. So what they needed to do, what they needed to do, Salesforce is they needed to innovate and make the process easier and flow better for sales and the rest of the ecosystem. And I think if they can use, I try to try to attribute this kind of like back and forth between what we're, what we're trying to do with our applicant tracking systems and chatbots, and then trying to do the same type of a thing with Slack. Is Salesforce is shitty when it comes to collaboration, right?

Chad (19m 8s):

They really need a tool to help some form of collaboration. Well, if I'm in sales and I have a steady stream or flow of consciousness that works in Slack, but it, it updates all my account information into Salesforce, right. It all pulls out of that database. Then that's a flow that, you know, I think is worthwhile and more innovative than just point in clicking into fucking Salesforce. Right? Yep. So I just, I think there's some great opportunities here. The big question is, and this is always the question with tech companies, how do they integrate it? What's the process going to be and are the base users really going to be a part of this?

Chad (19m 51s):

Because if they're not, they could, they could fuck this up in a heartbeat.

Joel (19m 54s):

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think, I hope that they take a lesson from, you know, Facebook leaving Instagram alone, Google leaving YouTube alone. Cause I think if they start just putting it into, you know, Slack by Salesforce or something, that it becomes a Salesforce feature that it'll just sort of fall fade away into the ether with a lot of the other acquisitions that we've talked about on the show. What I would really like to see and what I think, you know, becomes a challenge with messaging is the different platforms only prosper based on people using them in the enterprise system. Right? so Slack is sort of weird in that if I change companies, I have to do a different Slack to join that if I want to bring in like third parties or maybe legal counsel into a Slack room, it's just sorta clunky.

Joel (20m 48s):

What I'd love to see is something where, you know, I have a Slack that's portable to anywhere that I could just plug it in wherever I go. So, you know, maybe it's a profile thing, like, you know, or something. And anyone can opt to connect with me there. I can plug in that account to any other Slack communities. And then if you can pull that off, then I think you have something that's competitive with a LinkedIn, something that, on the enterprise level people will take with them as they leave jobs. So if I'm at a startup using Slack, I can take my Slack account and go somewhere else. To me, that becomes interesting because then it becomes something of a utility in terms of how I communicate with other people, because messaging right now is so disparate, right?

Joel (21m 37s):

Like if, if you and I get a message from, you know, Jonathan Duarte, it, he messages both of us through Facebook or I get, I get a DM on LinkedIn or a Twitter. And then that's where to that. So I have all these little disparate systems. It'd be nice if someone could consolidate messaging with something that everyone could take with them. If the mere purchase of, of Slack is to put Slack into Salesforce, I think it'll fail because we've already seen, they already have chatter. They already have sort of a messaging solution that plugs into Salesforce. Yeah, it is total shit. And I hope that they'll take some from Slack to plug into chatter and maybe chatter will be Slack.

Joel (22m 17s):

I don't know, to me, that sort of conversation to me, the bigger prize is if you can, if people's personal Slack is what they use to communicate instead of email, if you can displace, Hey, here's my Gmail email address versus, Hey, here's my Slack profile. I think you've won. If you can, if you can have more people do that instead of share email addresses.

Chad (22m 40s):

It has to come down to the company actually adopting, you know, getting away from email a hundred percent. I think we see more tech organizations doing that than anything else. Yeah. It's really sad. Cause you've seen it.

Joel (22m 52s):

You've seen so many work from home companies really just blow up in this last six month, 10 month period with, you know, zoom and others and Slack really hasn't shared in that growth. So to me, it's sort of a bummer if you're an investor in Slack thinking that in this time that they should have been blowing up, that they ended up selling, it's kind of a bummer in that way. It would have been nice to see them blow up too and become a, you know, a huge, huge business.

Chad (23m 20s):

Yeah. And to think that this and Flicker, we're both Stewart Butterfield side hustles. I mean, neither one of these platforms that he sold were his main hustle. And so it is interesting side hustles are sometimes much better and smarter than the main hustle, whether you know it or not.

Joel (23m 41s):

Yeah. I mean, Flicker became kind of a commodity, right? Pictures became not such a deal and you put them on your social media and messaging is kind of going the same way. It's just kind of this feature that you have on, on sites that you use and you need to, you need to have something that'll, that'll cross borders, so to speak and become a unified messaging platform. And I think Slack could be that. Time will tell, time will tell. Time will also tell if, if your opinion of gig workers will finally change. I don't know if this little news item will or not, but us sacred securities regulator on Tuesday of last week proposed a pilot program to allow tech companies like Uber and Lyft to pay gig workers up to 15% of their annual compensation in equity, rather than cash.

Joel (24m 29s):

A move it said was designed to reflect changes in the workforce. Are you pro or con giggers getting equity.

Chad (24m 37s):

Okay. So this is, this is interesting because...

Joel (24m 42s):

You're struggling with this one. I can tell.

Chad (24m 44s):

No. Yeah, it's it just oh God. So the proposal would not require an increase in pay. We've got, we've got it. We've got to put that out there first. The proposal would not require an increase in pay, just flexibility on whether to pay using cash or equity. And let's make this very fucking clear people. 90%, about. 90% of the stock is owned by the top 10%. Why is that? Because they have the cash to spend. These people don't have the cash to forsake to put toward equity. Okay. So to be able to think that this is even an option is total absurdity, okay?

Chad (25m 30s):

This is a misdirection by corporate gig. America look, look, we're offering equity. No, what you're offering is something your giggers cannot afford to buy into. This, once again is nothing but bullshit. It's smoke and mirrors. And it's a what the actual fuck moment, to think that Americans are this stupid. And some of us are, don't get it. Don't get me wrong, but this is not something that they can actually partake in because they need that actual hard cash.

Joel (26m 1s):

So, wow. You really hate it. So I don't, I don't hate it misdirected maybe. And I think that companies will abuse the shit out of it. I mean, you'll see, although it's only up to 15%, so there is at least that element of protection. So you could totally see startups come out and go like, Oh, you can get a hundred percent of stock. And instead of us paying you and people would do it and then they'd go out of business and not have to pay you anything because it was all in options. So at least there is some security there. And I do at least like that, the FCC is opening itself up from like currently or in the old days, it was like, you could only invest if you were a certified money person, right?

Joel (26m 44s):

Like you had to be licensed and all this stuff. I think if people, whether it's, if I want to, if I want to give some money to, you know, a startup, like you gave money to a Candidate ID, right? Like you should be able to do that. You shouldn't have to be a certified, you know, Wall Street.

Chad (27m 3s):

I'm not driving my car. I'm not driving my car for ...

Joel (27m 6s):

The point is that I, that I like, I like the loosening up of regulations around how shares in a company are being able to be acquired. And to me, like, I'm totally fine. If, I'm a 22 year old, you know, no kids not, you know, no real expenses in my life. And I'm an Uber driver and Hey, I want to put 15% of my stuff and Uber stock. And then 10 years later, Uber blows up and I get a little bit richer and maybe a lot richer in some cases like I don't have a problem with that. And it's voluntary based on the gigger. I think ultimately you have to have healthcare for these people though. That, to me, that's the big thing.

Joel (27m 48s):

That's like the real negative in terms of the gig economy is these people don't get unemployment insurance. They don't get healthcare, they don't get any of that stuff. But if they, if they want to participate in the free market and, and have stock options in these companies that a lot of them think are going to be huge one day and they might get rich from, I have no problem with that.

Chad (28m 12s):

That's the misdirection in itself, because we're not talking about what we should be talking about, which is healthcare, which is paying into the UI system, right? Which Uber doesn't do, which these, these gig platforms don't do. So what they're doing is they're saying, Hey, we're going to offer you this, which is pretty much 99.9% of the individuals will not choose equity over the actual cash. So it is a total bullshit misdirection when we should be talking about things that matter. And healthcare matters and having unemployment matters! And that being said, let me also pimp out this week, we had a Suresh Naido on our podcast where we talk about the skills gap, lie, sharpen your pencils, or clean off your iPad or whatever it is, whatever it takes to, to make sure that you can take notes.

Chad (29m 4s):

Because this dude is a, an economics professor at Columbia knows his shit and it's, and it's good stuff. And we're really happy to be able to bring that kind of brain power to the podcast.

Joel (29m 16s):

I wonder what he thinks about this? hey, if part of my pursuit of happiness is rolling the dice with Uber, who are you to say, I'm wrong? Who are you to say, I'm wrong?

Chad (29m 25s):


JobAdX (29m 26s):

Your recruiting toolkit needs to be lean and mean as you adjust with fewer resources, tighter budgets and rapid hiring needs in a saturated and competitive market. Posting jobs, shouldn't be a lengthy, risky or fruitless process. You can count on JobAdX to be your force maximizer. Automate the details of your programmatic job ad distribution candidate targeting and budget management so you can focus your energy on the big picture and human aspects of recruiting top talent. Reach relevant candidates effortlessly across 200 sites in the U S and Canada. Simply upload a feed of your jobs and set your budget in less than five minutes. We do the rest. Getting an influx of applicants already that just aren't the right fit?

JobAdX (30m 7s):

JobAdX presents your jobs to targeted candidates based on their job preferences to get granular. Now your advertising spend can go towards more relevant candidates, not just more applicants. What's more your JobAdX programmatic campaigns now reach for government job bank systems in over 30 States, giving you centralized access to the majority of active job seekers, eager to get off of unemployment and get back to work.

Joel (30m 29s):

Send us a note today with your unique challenge, to see how we can help you in the new state of recruiting, make the next step forward and start your results focused campaign now at that's Ba