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TikTok Excites and LinkedIn Snoozes

If you thought TikTok's foray into employment was going to be short-lived, it might be time to change your thinking. On this episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast Does Recruitment Marketing with Julie Calli, we're talkin' trends from 2022 and what to look out for in '23, exclusively from the community, as well as winners from their recent industry polling. What's more, they're covering TikTok's latest push into a Creative Talent Marketplace and how savvy employers are taking advantage of influencers to market their employer brand and job openings, as well as seven updates coming from LinkedIn this year. It's a must listen if you want to stay ahead of the curve. And that said, be sure to sign-up at and subscribe to this show too.


Chad and Cheese Podcast - Intro (1s):

Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel Cheesman (22s):

Oh, yeah. More than 120 million podcast listeners exist in America and some of them actually listen to this hot garbage. Hi, kids. You are listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast Does Recruitment Marketing. I'm your co-host, Joel, Brass Cans, Cheesman.

Chad Sowash (38s):

This is Chad, Same As It Ever Was, Sowash.

Julie Calli (42s):

This is Julie, Ready To Take On 2023, Calli.

Joel Cheesman (45s):

Oh, I like that. On this episode, a look back on 2022, TikTok, Don't Stop, and LinkedIn's Seven Dwarfs. Let's do this. Happy New Year,. Julie Calli.

Julie Calli (58s):

Happy New Year.

Chad Sowash (59s):

She's back.

Joel Cheesman (60s):

She's back. She's got her Chad and Cheese T-shirt on. I love it.

Julie Calli (1m 4s):

Yes. I had to wear it today.

Joel Cheesman (1m 6s):

Yeah. Kind of a grunge thing. You got the sweater, the flannel, whatever the hell that is.

Chad Sowash (1m 10s):

The Weezer sweater, is that what you're saying?

Julie Calli (1m 12s):

The sweater matched your T-shirt, so I thought, you know, it's cold here in Connecticut.

Joel Cheesman (1m 17s):

I like that.

Chad Sowash (1m 18s):

Oh, yeah.

Joel Cheesman (1m 19s):

We usually go with easy-to-match colors like black. But, yeah, there's a little red in there that you're rocking. I like it.

Chad Sowash (1m 25s):

It's Corona time here in the Midwest.

Joel Cheesman (1m 29s):

It's always Corona time.

Chad Sowash (1m 33s):

Nice and warm blue skies.

Joel Cheesman (1m 37s):

Listeners in Australia are like, well, yeah, dumbass. It's summer down here. It's Corona time because I think there's an award that was announced this week that a certain somebody, a certain couple of knuckleheads actually won. Should that be--? Is that the first shoutout today?

Julie Calli (1m 52s):

Yeah, I'll go first with shoutouts.

Joel Cheesman (1m 54s):

Oh, okay.

Chad Sowash (1m 55s):

Hit it.

Julie Calli (1m 55s):

Because I'd love to give a shoutout, first of all, to everyone who participated in our voting wanted to leave an opportunity for people to vote for who is the best, the best podcast, the best industry event, the best job site. And, yeah, very proud to announce and share with you that the Chad and Cheese Podcast won Best Podcast in the Industry.

Joel Cheesman (2m 19s):

That's right, that's right. That's right. By a large margin according to the blog post that went out.

Chad Sowash (2m 26s):

A large margin.

Joel Cheesman (2m 27s):

Did anyone else get a vote? I just can't imagine.

Julie Calli (2m 30s):

Oh, there were definitely other shows that were voted for best, but, you know, we did it looking at, you know, which ones stood out with the most votes. Only one vote per person. So there was a significant amount that voted for your show. Definitely was the leader contending for podcast.

Joel Cheesman (2m 49s):

Very nice. So runners up were, I think our Canadian friends.

Chad Sowash (2m 53s):

Recruitment Flex.

Joel Cheesman (2m 54s):

Recruitment Flex.

Chad Sowash (2m 56s):

Recruiting Daily.

Joel Cheesman (2m 57s):

James Ellis on there, Matt Alder.

Chad Sowash (2m 60s):

Honarable mentions. Yeah,

Julie Calli (3m 1s):

I honestly loved to see all the results that people, you know, put into what are their favorite shows. It was great to see just how many shows there are out there in the industry. Now each of them has their own flavor and their own style and no one can compare to you, but it really is incredible to see how many people are out there broadcasting to help people in the industry.

Joel Cheesman (3m 26s):

Now, was there another that people could fill in aside from the ones--?

Julie Calli (3m 30s):


Joel Cheesman (3m 30s):

So you're saying there were a lot of others, a lot of Mickey Mouse write-ins for the election that happened.

Julie Calli (3m 35s):


Joel Cheesman (3m 36s):

Oh, that's cool.

Julie Calli (3m 36s):

Yes, there were, but that actually helped us expand and understand what else are people listening to out there that we might not be aware of.

Chad Sowash (3m 44s):


Joel Cheesman (3m 45s):

So you released us on You're releasing a new winner every day. So we're recording on Tuesday, so we're finding out who won today? What was the announcement today?

Julie Calli (3m 54s):

So today's announcement was based on our votes what was the best recruitment marketing event in 2022? The winner was HR Tech. The HR Technology Conference.

Joel Cheesman (4m 10s):

A must-attend for the Chad and Cheese podcast as are most of the conferences that were in there. Who else got some votes on the best conference?

Julie Calli (4m 18s):

Yeah, the runners-up were all pretty close with Unleashed, being Unleash America got the most votes. I think that was based on, you know, our audience. But certainly Unleashed World does deserve mention as well as it came up quite a bit. But Talent Acquisition Week.

Chad Sowash (4m 36s):

Nice. So question, does Unleash America and Unleash World, did those combined results surpass that of HR Tech?

Julie Calli (4m 45s):

It did not. I would've considered that, but I would say combined, they definitely were runners up.

Chad Sowash (4m 51s):


Julie Calli (4m 52s):

Talent Acquisition Week also got really high rankings for Top Event and so did Inspire HR.

Chad Sowash (4m 58s):

And tomorrow we have what coming or when this podcast comes out, will be today. So what's the third one that you're dropping?

Julie Calli (5m 7s):

So tomorrow we'll be announcing Best Job Site. Now this one I was just holding out with bated breath to see every vote.

Joel Cheesman (5m 18s):

Congratulations for Careerbuilder.

Chad Sowash (5m 19s):

No, it was Monster. Monster took that one, didn't they? That's awesome. No? No? Okay. Oh, my bad, my bad.

Julie Calli (5m 26s):

This is based on votes, right, to determine what was the best. And I just couldn't wait to see what people thought, right? I know I have my own opinions and this was not based on my opinion, so I was excited to see--

Joel Cheesman (5m 38s):

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Best Job Board goes to...

Julie Calli (5m 47s):


Chad Sowash (5m 47s):

LinkedIn, wow.

Joel Cheesman (5m 47s):

That's right, baby. Drink the juice, Chad. Drink the Kool-Aid, baby.

Chad Sowash (5m 52s):

One of the worst pieces of technology in our space and it wins. That's awesome.

Joel Cheesman (5m 58s):

Hey, hey. The people have spoken.

Chad Sowash (5m 58s):

Well, it's not surprising for HR and/or TA because, you know, we're about two decades behind anyway.

Joel Cheesman (6m 5s):

The people have spoken.

Chad Sowash (6m 6s):

Who was close, who were some up-and-comers? What else did you see in that space?

Julie Calli (6m 11s):

Yeah, so the next, what I would say, you know, the top-rated after LinkedIn was JobCase, Adzuna and Indeed.

Joel Cheesman (6m 22s):


Chad Sowash (6m 23s):

Nice. Adzuna and then Indeed. That's good stuff right there.

Julie Calli (6m 26s):

There was quite a few that were listed in that. So in the article in which we released, we listed all of the ones that we thought had enough, significant enough votes to list them out for our readers.

Chad Sowash (6m 39s):

Congratulations because you're all winners.

Joel Cheesman (6m 40s):

You're all number one in Chad's heart. That's for sure. That's for sure. That's for sure. So how many more days do we have? What other winners? And make sure that we plug that you gotta go to if you want to get all the latest winners. What else is yet to be announced?

Julie Calli (6m 55s):

So those are the three at one that we are announcing this week. But we also surveyed our audience on a lot of other information that we thought might be helpful to share on the sentiment that recruitment marketers are feeling right now. And one of those was, you know, I wrote an article on what the top trends of 2022 are, but we surveyed the audience and said, "What were the most impactful things to you as a recruitment marketer in 2022?" And that we will be publishing an article about next week. That was really great to see everyone's responses. There were a lot of responses written in so that we could see really all the things that people in the community are thinking.

Joel Cheesman (7m 37s):

Don't jump ahead, Julie, don't jump ahead. We want people to stick around after the advertisement, but when does the best porn site come out?

Julie Calli (7m 46s):

What? That's not something we would cover.

Joel Cheesman (7m 47s):

Oh, that's a different site altogether.

Chad Sowash (7m 49s):

They're workers. I mean, come on now, gigglers.

Joel Cheesman (7m 53s):

All right. Congratulations to all the winners and everyone that lost to us in the podcast category. Big thanks to them. We'll be right back and get back to those five trends for 2023.

Chad Sowash (8m 6s):

Top five trends, baby.

Joel Cheesman (8m 7s):

All right. Top five recruitment marketing trends from 2022 with a little look to 2023. The article discusses the increasing use of TikTok, the use of video for recruiting, pay transparency, the use of AI and chatbots to streamline the recruitment process, and an emphasis on employer branding. Julie, which trend stood out most to you, and which one do you expect to continue kicking ass in 2023? Any sneak peeks from your article as well that you wanna throw in there?

Julie Calli (8m 38s):

I mean, the two, I can't even pick one here because one of them is about adapting to change that's been forced upon us and that's the pay transparency, right? Pay transparency is absolutely gonna continue. It's going to be something that we will be managing through for I think a few years as states one by one decide upon entering these requirements. So I do think that that'll be with us for a while as we navigate through this. So that one. But the other is real opportunity and that is us advancing into the world. That's video for recruitment marketing.

Julie Calli (9m 17s):

I mean, TikTok is a foundational video format. This is the way that you know the world is going. If you don't have video and stages of your recruitment marketing process today, you gotta get started on that. You're gonna be behind the times with it, but it is gonna take a while for people to adapt and really discover all the places that they can use video to really enhance and improve their candidate experience.

Joel Cheesman (9m 44s):

Chad, any of those stand out to you as trends from 2022?

Chad Sowash (9m 48s):

Talk about pay transparency being forced, so is Indeed's pricing that's being forced. Get ready for that, kids, because they're calling ay Per Apply Start, which is really just PPC under a different name. They've recreated a bastard that's the exact same model that they can charge you five to 10 times more for. Get ready, kids. Good for you. I mean, really when you're talking about video's, TikTok's video, I see TikTok in the video discussion all coming as one, which I think you do as well, Julie. And it's funny because we just dropped our 1000th episode, which was an interview with Bill Borman where he calls employers trying to use TikTok dad dancing.

Chad Sowash (10m 32s):

And he calls it that because it's not cool and you're not doing it right, right? And I see the exact same thing, not just for TikTok, but also for video, right? You've got all these employers who say, you know, get my jobs on TikTok or, you know, they do these things which we've talked about before, but they don't realize that, you know, they have to be able to provide their employees with the opportunity to go out there and just talk about what they do on the daily. But I'm not sure that they want to relinquish the control to actual people. They want everything underneath the control of their employer, you know, TikTok accounts or their videos or what have you.

Chad Sowash (11m 16s):

So that's where I come with the same as it ever was. I don't think any of that's gonna change. We're gonna get crappy content spewed all over the web and only the smart ones are actually going to go to allowing their employees to start to use TikTok under their own veil, right? And then also go to some of these great production houses, like our friends over at Skill Scout to get really sexy videos that are done. And there's a huge contrast between the two, right?

Joel Cheesman (11m 45s):

Chad said spewed. I'm with Julie on the pay transparency. I still think 2023 is when pay transparency can no longer be ignored. It'll be messy. A New York Times article this week talks about how it's good for pay equity and it can be good for managers, but it's not so good for superstars. So there's gonna be a lot of pushback from that perspective. There's too much in favor of transparency for it not to strengthen in 2023 plus what the Feds are doing in regards to making non-competes illegal, which I think is gonna get some speed in 2023 will be a wind beneath the wings of transparency.

Joel Cheesman (12m 26s):

Yeah, I threw in a Beaches reference just for you, Chad, on pay transparency.

Chad Sowash (12m 31s):

And don't forget, one of my predictions for 2023 is that CNIO is acquired by a bigger organization. And CNIO is really the easy button for most of these companies to be able to throw all of their data, you know, their HR data into a platform to look for transparency. And another beautiful thing for government is to be able to point and say, "Okay, well if they can do it and they're a vendor, then you can definitely do it.

Joel Cheesman (12m 59s):

And we all know about Chad's predictions.

Chad Sowash (13m 2s):

Sixty percent of the time. It works every time. Every time.

Joel Cheesman (13m 5s):

All right, Julie, on the article to be published for 2023, the people have spoken on what's gonna be hot. Talk about that.

Julie Calli (13m 13s):

Yeah. So asking, you know, our community recruitment marketers, TA professionals, what was the most impactful change to you in 2022? Of course, requiring compensation in the job was number one, very disruptive to a lot of the ways of working that we have today. It was a mandate without a lot of time for us to figure out how to solve for it. So that was difficult on a lot of recruitment marketers. They wanted to comply. They wanted to provide that in the job, but it just wasn't that easy. So definitely made an impact. But what I will say is people are embracing it. The recruitment marketing and TA professionals are all in agreement that it should be done.

Julie Calli (13m 58s):

It's a matter of how. So made an impact that they all were comfortable moving forward with it, but challenging in how to execute that well.

Chad Sowash (14m 7s):

Well, and here's the thing. I don't believe any employer, okay. Let's just make it that easy because I remember when employers were saying that we couldn't go to remote work, and then within two weeks after a pandemic, guess what we all did, kids? We went to remote work and we made those things work. So first off, I'm not gonna carry any employer's water. They can make this happen. All they have to do is put the resources into it. And the reason why, I mean, they're obviously being scared into it because of obviously government and some of them are government contractors. And the last thing they want to do is lose millions and or billions of dollars. So it's more the stick than the carrot. Unfortunately, I wish the carrot actually worked.

Joel Cheesman (14m 46s):

Please tell me TikTok is in the top five somewhere for '23 trends.

Julie Calli (14m 52s):

Well, have some patience. Okay, number two, right, was not TikTok. Number two was innovations in TA technology. There are so many new technologies emerging that are trying to make the life of recruitment marketers, employer brand professionals easier. And as all this new tech is emerging, people are very excited. They want to see all the cool new things, but there definitely is a challenge to how can people keep informed of all of these things that are coming out into the place.

Joel Cheesman (15m 29s):

Hopefully, they're listening to this podcast, Julie, hopefully they're listening to us.

Julie Calli (15m 35s):

Exactly. Lots of great advancements, but really it is challenging for someone in the role as a recruitment marketer to stay on top of all of this. It really is. So definitely listen to the podcasts and help keep you accelerated.

Chad Sowash (15m 48s):

Totally agree. So for you personally, what excites you the most about the technology that's happening out there? Obviously, you know, we've been seeing ChatGPT blow up, you know, the news waves, but what's excited you the most?

Julie Calli (16m 3s):

I love that there's a lot of tools coming out that create efficiency in doing the job. There is so much process in recruitment marketing and in recruitment, so much process and a lot of it can be automated. Anything that's a redundant, repetitive task should go the way of tech and automation. What's happening is that everyone worked in their own little silos and had their own little unique processes, but we're starting to move towards more standardization, more best practices, and that is creating more paths for companies to come in and accelerate that. So I love to see the ability to create efficiency in managing contacts, the ability to distribute content in more automated ways, and also curate inbound information because information overload is an absolute thing that exists in the world today.

Julie Calli (16m 56s):

So how can you manage so many contacts, so many processes, internal, external, things that help build efficiency around that role all for them?

Chad Sowash (17m 5s):

Yeah. Starting to see, I think, and I'm lucky enough to advise some startups around video and being able to make it easier for you to go out and collect content and then manage the content that you push out to your site. So I mean, it's almost like everything that we've been talking about for years is finally coming to a head in many of these platforms, which you're hitting square between the eyes is really focused on automation, heavy automation and hitting those roadblocks that we've been hitting for years, finally finding a way around them.

Julie Calli (17m 41s):

Yeah. But, you know, for a little while it's probably gonna be a little uncomfortable because a lot of the new advancing tech is very siloed into its singular value or its primary feature. And we are going to see things right through either through acquisition or through companies bringing together the value making more systems work well together. That really is where we need to go. We're seeing a lot of advancement in technology, but how to connect them all so that they provide a unified experience that is gonna take some time.

Chad Sowash (18m 13s):

Well, let me ask you a question real quick because sometimes we see point solutions that are amazing and then they get acquired by a bigger company, and then they are smothered and they're dead, right? And then all of that innovation that we saw from that startup just literally just goes away overnight. Do you think that we're going to see bigger platforms actually get better into integration and marketing and utilization of that? Or are we just gonna see the continued smothering? Because to be quite frank, I hate to sound like a cynic, I see nothing but smothering happening out there.

Julie Calli (18m 51s):

Well, I would say that both are going to happen and the winner is going to be those that are really focusing on the needs and the value of the employers and the teams that use those tools. It's easy to throw in a lot of features and say, hey, we have all the latest the bells and the whistles, but is it actually making people's lives better and easier? Or are you asking people to log into seven different systems and making it harder to actually do the job? The technology should be making your life better, not worse. And well, unfortunately, what we do have is a lot of people buying technology and saying it's actually harder so that's not meeting the need.

Julie Calli (19m 31s):

I do think that some really great tools may not get the advancement that they need right now because they're just not going to bring in enough revenue, right? So it might really make a big impact, but if it's not something that a company can make a lot of money off of, it may not get the headwind that it needs.

Joel Cheesman (19m 49s):

And, you know, for better or worse, if this recession finally happens, the companies that aren't making any money will get bought up. The winners will win, the losers will lose, and will come out the other side knowing who we should purchase and who we should be putting our investment into, which we all saw in 2008, you know, who the winners were coming out of that recession. So I don't wanna wish for a recession, but in regards to making sense of what tools to buy and which ones not to buy, it might be helpful.

Chad Sowash (20m 18s):

I think it's gonna happen more organically. And what we saw in 2021 and 2022 with regard to funding was a total fucking anomaly.

Joel Cheesman (20m 28s):

Yeah. What I loved about your top job boards was Jobcase coming in second. I don't think I would've predicted that. And the fact that we're seeing, you know, the labor, the seasonal, the hourly stay strong and people choosing Jobcase tells me that that's where a lot of the action is moving into that hourly space. So take that for what it's worth. But it's interesting that the executive search platform was number one, but then the blue-collar, the job, the people that are not on LinkedIn came in number two. That was pretty interesting for top job sites. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll get to the big booty Latinas and bug fights of TikTok.

Joel Cheesman (21m 12s):

All right, guys, as much as I thought TikTok would just go away after this modest step into recruitment, it looks like it's here to stay. This past week CNBC had an article about how companies employers are leveraging thought leaders, influencers to actually promote jobs and promote the brand of companies as employment. They're not just selling, you know, Jordan's and Bombas. So that is a really interesting development. And in addition to that, TikTok is putting its money into where the action is.

Joel Cheesman (21m 53s):

They've introduced a new talent manager portal as part of its creator marketplace, a platform that allows brands and agencies to connect with 800,000 qualified creators worldwide. The new service allows talent managers with creator authorization to log into the creator marketplace to manage deal flow and negotiate contracts on behalf of their talent, handle the creative feedback and various reports and metrics about a campaign's performance or part of that solution. So people now will actually be able to go into TikTok, I assume, search for people in their local market, search for people that might be, you know, technical influencers, blue-collar influencers, certain age groups.

Joel Cheesman (22m 33s):

They'll be able to actually have these influencers market them and their opportunities as opposed to creating videos on their own or creating banner ads. They can actually leverage this platform. Pretty exciting stuff. My first thought was why did it take, you know, social media so long to figure out let's have people tap into our influencers. But TikTok is on the cutting edge here. Your guys' thoughts?

Julie Calli (22m 59s):

Creators are creative people who build audiences and make interesting content, and I love that this came in number three, the rise of TikTok as a recruitment marketing channel from our audience, and this is not necessarily because it's been the number one source of how people are making hires, but it's because there is a significant audience there. TikTok has been all over the news and a lot of executives are just telling their teams get us up on TikTok, but not really understanding what the channel is, what the media is. And this is where we absolutely need to have a marketplace for creators.

Julie Calli (23m 40s):

Because you cannot just go tap on, you know, an intern at your company and say, say build us a TikTok profile and make us some incredible videos. That is probably not going to yield the results that you want for your brand and creators need to be recognized as people that have real value and influence and treating them as such and putting a marketplace in which you can find ways to engage with them. This is absolutely fantastic. This is the better way to go about this than simply expecting your marketing team to be creators and put themselves out there for the sake of your brand.

Chad Sowash (24m 15s):

Maybe. It might be authentic. Depends on what they're peddling. I mean, because if the company still sucks to work for and then you have an influencer that's saying, "Hey, come work for ABC company. Come work for Amazon. They're great," you know, and everybody knows number one is bullshit and/or they take that influencer's advice and they go work there. The next thing you know is you have the influencer's video stitched alongside an employee who's quitting and calling, you know, her boss Earl, a misogynist asshole, right? So there's a lot of risk that happens there if you still have a shitty workplace. I mean, that's the key.

Chad Sowash (24m 55s):

So if we're not fixing the things that we should have been fixing forever, then none of that's gonna matter. And sparkling a little Kardashian, you know, sprinkle over it is not gonna make it better.

Joel Cheesman (25m 6s):

Chad loves him some Kardashian sprinkles. Oh, and Chad's completely right. Look, if Company ABC, I think Chad said, Company ABC, if they put out a video on the Ccompany ABC social media profile, no one's gonna comment like, "No, you suck." But if someone with 5 million followers says this company's great, go apply, comments and it's just gonna be brutal for companies. So there is a major risk when you put your brand and advertise with an influencer.

Chad Sowash (25m 38s):

Or your influencer brand, right? Because the influencers have their own brand and if they have a mutiny of the people who are, you know, following them, I mean, that's not good for them either.

Joel Cheesman (25m 48s):

Sure. And you mentioned duets, if someone takes that and duets it, I mean, yeah, there's tremendous risk, but I think we would all agree that any company out there that has budget for it should allocate a certain amount of money to go play with this influencer marketplace. Whether it's a local influencer or someone in your industry, like just put a little money there to just try it. I think too many companies will be like, no way. I urge you to put some money. This will be a trend. Facebook will do it with Instagram once it becomes huge, LinkedIn will try it, they'll probably fuck it up, but they'll probably try it. Twitter, Twitter with Elon Musk, like this whole influencer is advertisers for your brand is gonna be a thing and you should start getting into it now before you get left behind and, you know, get behind the curve there.

Chad Sowash (26m 38s):

Now, Julie, what we are saying, and I want to hear, you know, what you think about this is there are a lot of companies that actually have an individual who are focused on engaging influencers.

Julie Calli (26m 49s):

Yeah. I've seen this done really well using influencers in recruitment marketing. Some of the ways that I've seen this done best is using the influencer as a way to show a day in the life. A lot of people wanna know what is it actually like working at the company? So having the influencer come in and show what their first day is like, you know, the cool schwag that they get when they arrive at the office, or what is it like learning how to, you know, in some of the hourly positions, like, hey, how cool it is that you can wear your headphones as you're picking and packing at the warehouse. Or like showing some of the, like, advantages of what it is actually like to be in that role.

Julie Calli (27m 32s):

Building excitement of around it by giving a real narrative and story to it. Someone showing what their experience is like. Now the reason why this works is this person already has an audience. They've already built trust with their audience. So people are watching and seeing this and they believe this to be on an authentic relay of what this person's experience is like because they've provided all their other content in the same manner.

Joel Cheesman (27m 59s):

Do we know of any agencies that are on this? Because agencies should be all over this. Not just TikTok, but they should have a list of who are the Twitter accounts, what are the Instagram accounts like, as far as I know agencies aren't on this yet, but they certainly need to get their ass in gear because this is gonna be a hot trend going forward.

Chad Sowash (28m 17s):

Well, in shout-out to Work Human, we know that they actually have an individual who is focused on influencers. I mean, it just makes good sense and being able to, you know, talk to them and engage them at events, podcasts, TikToks, all that stuff.

Joel Cheesman (28m 34s):

That's right. Podcasters are influencers too, everybody. All right, definitely something we'll be talking about for probably years to come, TikTok's influence on recruiting.

Julie Calli (28m 45s):

All right, guys, before we move on, I just wanted to share the other two that came in on the top. One, the amount of executive-level attention that is being given towards TA. That was really interesting to see.

Joel Cheesman (28m 58s):

And that's not a prediction. Is that a prediction that they're saying they're actually seeing that?

Julie Calli (29m 4s):

Yeah. In 2022, some of the most impactful things that happened to recruitment marketers was the executive-level attention and that could be, you know, for the good that they are understanding.

Joel Cheesman (29m 17s):

They were saying for years that our most valuable resource is our people. Like if they're actually doing it.

Chad Sowash (29m 21s):

Bullshitting for years. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Calli (29m 22s):

So that was great to see that people were saying that that was one of the most impactful things that had changed them in their recruitment marketing roles last year. I bet that that continues, that that's not going to be something that just happened last year. I really think that a lot of companies were impacted by talent shortages, the great resignation, and they are seeing the value of keeping ta close to leadership. So hopefully that works out for the better for us as we progress into next year. But the other one, I know many people are gonna empathize with this, but frontline worker labor shortage came in at number five. Now that means for that to have reached into the top five, this was significant to many.

Chad Sowash (30m 5s):

It broke supply chains. It should be number one.

Joel Cheesman (30m 9s):

Well, not everyone there hires frontline people, so it's a little bit skewed, right?

Julie Calli (30m 14s):

But for that to have merged, right? Yeah. Not seeing the struggles to hire tech talent, we're seeing a struggle to hire frontline workers. So obviously emerging from a pandemic that had already created a significant impact on this but, you know, we're seeing this in pockets of the industry and absolutely something that we're gonna be carrying into this year as a continued challenge that people are gonna face in these roles.

Joel Cheesman (30m 43s):

All right. LinkedIn and the seven Dwarfs, actually the title of the article was LinkedIn Announces Seven Updates Coming in '23. Chad, I know you can't wait to sound off on some of the updates coming from our friends at LinkedIn. So these improvements that they're launching in '23 include improved video accessibility by automatically generating captions for videos, standardized accessibility job titles to help professionals in the field be more easily discovered, alt text functionality and campaign manager for advertisers, updates to job search by testing personalized job collections, whatever that is, updates to B2B product search by adding new category filters and improving relevance post scheduling, which I've actually used, and content analytics to measure the effectiveness of a post.

Joel Cheesman (31m 36s):

These updates aim to improve accessibility, help professionals find job opportunities that match their skills and values, and make purchasing decisions easier. All right, you two, are we into any of these innovations? If so, which ones or has LinkedIn missed the mark as we head into a new year?

Chad Sowash (31m 55s):

I'm gonna bite my tongue for a minute. I wanna hear what Julie has to say.

Julie Calli (31m 57s):

So these are updates, right? These are in the future.

Joel Cheesman (32m 1s):

These are coming, yeah. The scheduling is already here. Maybe not for everybody, but scheduling your posts is something that is live at least for me.

Julie Calli (32m 8s):

I mean, that's great that they're making enhancements. I'm so glad there's so many places that they do need to make those enhancements. They've got great products, but they need to step up a little further here. Especially with their interfaces. People are working out of multiple accounts with multiple interfaces they have to work with and LinkedIn, you know, you got your sales navigator, you got the ability to manage your content and they're all not working together well. So it's great to see some of these updates. I'm really interested in what they're doing to update job search.

Joel Cheesman (32m 42s):

Chad is too. Chad cannot wait.

Julie Calli (32m 45s):

A significant amount of improvement that could be done there. But you know where LinkedIn really has some of the advantage is that they are doing so much with skill matching. They're collecting so much data here. There's real opportunity for them to bring something to market that works with this. But it's probably not ready yet, but I do hope to see that in its future.

Chad Sowash (33m 8s):

Yeah. So to me just rings of, you know, days of old with Monster. They just kept coming out with shit that didn't matter when they're bread and butter being the search and their algorithm and how their business worked was shit. It just sucked. And that's the problem with LinkedIn. Their algorithm sucks. Yes, they have more data on me when it comes to my profile data because I have a more robust, rich profile on LinkedIn than any other site that's out there. But yet they return the worst matches. Their algorithm is horrible. I can't imagine the amount of technical debt they have to go through day by day because this is nothing but horse and carriage tech when they should be blowing it up and they should be rebuilding on the side.

Chad Sowash (33m 57s):

That's the problem that Monster had. They didn't rebuild, they didn't challenge, they didn't Netflix themselves, right? Netflix had the DVDs that they had in the mail, but they also did the online streaming because they knew the progression and the evolution was going to happen. Monster allowed that to kill them. The problem is, I mean, LinkedIn's big, don't get me wrong, but this could kill them because they're not focusing on the things that actually matter most to people who use their platform.

Joel Cheesman (34m 23s):

Tell us how you really feel, Chad, about's number one job board according to the fans. A couple of these I want to point out, this goes back to TikTok. I think LinkedIn has to get video right. Whatever that looks like. Stories failed. They can't get like live streaming quite right.

Chad Sowash (34m 43s):

Podcasting failed. Everything they've done has fucking failed, dude.

Joel Cheesman (34m 45s):

They're gonna have their lunches just taken from them if they cannot get video right. If they can't get video right and TikTok becomes a better outlet for marketing and these marketplaces, like LinkedIn needs to get that right. I also think if they don't get that right Polywork, who I hate, but, you know, LinkedIn for the kids, right? I mean that's a real threat to LinkedIn. If they can't get sort of what the kids like, which is video right, the kids are gonna move somewhere else and that could be Polywork or, hell, TikTok is looking like they're gonna be a major competitor in the employment space. The other thing I wanted to mention is the whole, if you're a B2B company, selling to businesses like LinkedIn is probably your number one source of reaching.

Joel Cheesman (35m 28s):

Who do I need to talk to? How do I market our wares? What kind of posts and stuff? Who should I target? And I do think that they're new search for basically pages and letting you say, okay, what are CRMs that I should be looking at? Or what are ATSs that I should be looking at? And being able to get search results and endorsements and likes and whatever. Like if they become an internal search engine or side search engine for vendors like that could be powerful. But like Chad said, they need to get job search right. How are they gonna get vendor search right or company pages right? I'd say the odds aren't good for them doing that.

Chad Sowash (36m 9s):

Sixty percent of the time, it works every time.

Joel Cheesman (36m 12s):

But LinkedIn is fun, TikTok is fun. All these companies are fun to watch. And marketing is obviously one of the more fun topics that we have a podcast about. So it's gonna be fun watching 2023. Any closing thoughts you guys before we push stop?

Chad Sowash (36m 29s):

I definitely think that recruitment marketing is going to continue to grow, but I agree a hundred percent. The agencies need to start thinking. They say they think out of the box. They say they're gonna bring these great ideas, these out-of-the box ideas.

Joel Cheesman (36m 43s):

Dude, they're scared of putting a chatbot on their website. You think they're gonna be like, let's talk to Cray Cray TikTok '23 to promote our stuff.

Julie Calli (36m 54s):

It's the battle that companies would like to brand and manufacture, right? And people crave authenticity in real moments. So this is where the conflict lives. How do you balance those two?

Joel Cheesman (37m 11s):

Chad and Cheese are gonna be on this. is gonna be on this through 2023. Until then, the sun is shining. It's almost 50 degrees Fahrenheit in the Midwest.

Chad Sowash (37m 22s):

Corona time.

Joel Cheesman (37m 23s):

Which means it's Corona time. It also means we out.

Chad Sowash (37m 27s):

We out.

Julie Calli (37m 28s):

We out.

Chad and Cheese Podcast - Outro (37m 29s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called, podcast, the Chad, the Cheese, brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shout-outs of people you don't even know. And yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese. Not one cheddar, blue, nacho, Pepperjack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Chad and Cheese Podcast - Outro (38m 12s):

That way you won't miss an episode. And while you're added, visit Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. This is so weird. We out.


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