top of page
Indeed Wave.PNG
2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

UNLEASH Wrap & A.I. Hiring Regulations

Live from Paris at UNLEASH World, the boys are on stage with Keith Sonderling, EEOC Commissioner & Oana Iordachescu Associate Director, Talent Acquisition - Technology Europe/Asia at Wayfair Deutschland. And they’re talkin’ A.I. issues in hiring, focused on Europe. We’re always keeping you away from land mines, no matter the continent. What’s more? How about a special show summary with fellow podcaster Matt “That British Guy” Alder? You’re welcome.

INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Matt (26s):

Press record now.

Chad (33s):

You are mispronouncing it. It's called shit.

Joel (40s):

Oh yeah. What's up everybody? We are at Unleash World. You know the game. This is the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad (48s):

Gay Paris.

Joel (48s):

I'm your cohost, Joel Cheeseman. Joined as always, "the Laphroaig to my Aberfeldy" Chad Sowash. And we are, if you can stop laughing. Welcome Matt "that British guy" Alder popping in for a visit. Taking a break from podcasting. Matt, welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Matt (1m 9s):

Thank you very much. I can hear the whole of Scotland now up in arms about the way that...

Joel (1m 13s):

How many kilts just went up in flames?

Matt (1m 16s):

Mispronouncing some of their greatest love brand names

Joel (1m 21s):


Chad (1m 23s):


Joel (1m 24s):

Prince Aberfeldy.

Chad (1m 25s):

Really don't enunciate things in Scottish. Right. Everything just kinda like runs through. But it's got this wonderful.

Joel (1m 31s):

You're offending him. Look at how red's getting, stop offending it. It's a

Chad (1m 33s):

It's a very rich kind of like robust guttural.

Joel (1m 37s):


Chad (1m 37s):

Love is what I feel when I hear somebody speak.

Joel (1m 39s):

I've never been. But we're gonna change that.

Chad (1m 41s):

But we know Scotts. So

Joel (1m 43s):

We know Scots. We like all the Scots. We know it.

Chad (1m 46s):

You're really Welsh though? Right?

Matt (1m 47s):

English? I'm English.

Chad (1m 48s):

Oh, I thought you were Cardiff. I had Cardiff by the sea. No?

Matt (1m 50s):

No, no, no, no, no. I'm English. Okay. I used to in Cornwall, but that's part of England.

Chad (1m 55s):

Sorry about that.

Matt (1m 56s):

So, I now I live in Scotland. Scotland, okay. Yeah. So I'm not a Scottish, but my wife and family are all Scottish. Oh yeah.

Chad (2m 2s):

But you live in Scotland. So

Matt (2m 4s):

I'm becoming assimilated slightly. I'm not wearing a kilt, yea.

Joel (2m 7s):

They accepted you yet?

Matt (2m 8s):

Just very open, accepting inclusive country. So you'd even be welcome.

Chad (2m 12s):

I don't know about that.

Joel (2m 14s):

Wow. That's saying something, cuz I offend everybody.

Chad (2m 18s):

Yes. We're here today kids, in liEU, let's say of the Friday show. We're gonna go over a Unleash recap, talk a little bit about all the fun parties. People are back. We're in Paris. But at the end of the day, listeners want to hear how this shit went. Yes. The FOMO is real. Kids.

Joel (2m 36s):

Well, fomo all over like we're in EUrope. Fomo. We're Paris.

Chad (2m 40s):

Is that a song?

Joel (2m 41s):

We're at Unleashed? It could be a song. Let's write a song right here, right now.

Chad (2m 46s):

Fomo all over. I'm gonna FOMO all over. No, sorry, go ahead.

Joel (2m 51s):

I'm going to get the Vonqin' FOMO on you. It's great to be back in person. That's all I have to say.

Chad (2m 59s):

It is. Yeah.

Joel (2m 60s):

We're human beings. We need to socialize. And for two and a half years we didn't get to do that. Especially as podcasters, we talk to people, we speak into the ether to no one and it's great to come and see people.

Chad (3m 13s):


Joel (3m 13s):

I don't want to break my own arm patting myself on the back, but to have fans come by the booth, I'm sure you've experienced the same thing. Like, you know, love you guys keep, keep doing what you do.

Chad (3m 25s):

Matt's big in Europe.

Joel (3m 26s):

You're full of shit on my startup that you talk shit about. It's great to get all that feedback.

Matt (3m 31s):

I Think that's well it's great to have. We've got this podcasting area with these kind of branded backdrops.

Chad (3m 37s):

Pretty sweet. It's pretty good.

Matt (3m 38s):

Yours is kind of bright yellow.

Chad (3m 40s):

Ours is like screaming.

Matt (3m 41s):

The people coming by my booth have mainly been coming to plug their phones in to recharge cuz I've got a spare socket.

Chad (3m 47s):

We covered ours up so people couldn't see it.

Matt (3m 50s):

Yeah, absolutely. But it's, no, it's a really, it's a really great event. I mean there's lots of interesting companies exhibiting. I was hosting the recruitment stage yesterday. There's some great content.

Chad (4m 1s):


Joel (4m 1s):

Tell the listeners what that is. What kind of content were you overseeing? What were they?

Matt (4m 7s):

So it was a string of very senior TA people.

Joel (4m 10s):


Matt (4m 11s):

Talking about their various challenges. We had a great panel on first up talking about all the things that are affecting talent acquisition at the moment and how large companies are dealing with them. We heard from Deloitte, we heard from Deutsche Bank all kinds of other, you know, large, large EUropean or large multinational companies looking at all kinds of different areas of Talent Acquisition.

Joel (4m 34s):

They all say we're in a hiring freeze for the next 12 months.

Matt (4m 37s):

No! Not at all. There was still.

Joel (4m 39s):

Actually activity.

Matt (4m 39s):


Joel (4m 39s):

Cuz there was a lot of Americans think it's doom and gloom over here in EUrope and not so much.

Matt (4m 43s):

I mean it is but that doesn't translate.

Chad (4m 45s):

Doesn't stop us.

Joel (4m 46s):

But we're still hiring.

Matt (4m 48s):

It's still really the sense was that, you know, there's lots of economic pressure recession in quite a few countries, recession coming into ones that aren't there yet.

Joel (4m 57s):


Matt (4m 58s):

However, still very difficult to attract and retain talent. So, you know, companies may not be hiring in the numbers that they were hiring before, but they've still got all the same problems they had a year ago. And so interesting to see people linking TA also and employer branding with retention. So retaining people still big issue. How do you build

Joel (5m 21s):


Matt (5m 21s):

cultures? Had you upskill people all kind of thrown in the same presentation, which we didn't see before. That would be three different presentations, like two or three years ago. So, that was really interesting yesterday to see that.

Chad (5m 34s):

Pretty amazing. I mean we see the big names. They're all over the expo floor here.

Joel (5m 39s):

Not all the big names.

Chad (5m 41s):

All of the brands that are now, especially cuz we're in EUrope that are the Atlases, the Remote, the EOR companies.

Joel (5m 50s):


Chad (5m 50s):

Who are popping up and like exploding. Well probably because they got hundreds of millions of dollars, but exploding because EUrope, there's a bunch of countries and it's not easy to hire in EUrope for all of the different countries. But when you're looking for talent and you have the problems that you were just talking about, Matt, you need that those types of services. So we did see them in the US at HR Tech, but they, I mean they're big and strong here. Talk about that a little bit.

Matt (6m 20s):

Yeah, absolutely. It, you know, again, going back to the speakers that I saw yesterday and the people who've come on my podcast that I've sort of interviewed over the last couple of days, you know, they're all recruiting in multiple countries. All kinds of issues with, you know, different regulations. Lots of different things going on.

Chad (6m 37s):


Matt (6m 38s):

And yeah, just an explosion of tools, you know, to help that and also to really help people tap more into, you know, global workforces and, you know, borderless working and all that and all that sort of stuff. So yeah. Really interesting.

Chad (6m 53s):

We have a drive by listener

Joel (6m 56s):

A drive by.

Chad (6m 56s):

Who are you sir?

Lieven (6m 58s):

I tried to stay anonymous.

Joel (7m 2s):

We don't do anonymity.

Matt (7m 4s):

But we can see you.

Chad (7m 6s):

So Lieven. So yeah, Lieven is here, but for some reason he's been trying not to get on the mic, so I had to get him on the mic. So about this show, other than not going to the champagne tasting. Well what's been great?

Lieven (7m 20s):

The exhibition basically it's marvelous. So many companies I never heard about and I'm trying to hear about now.

Joel (7m 27s):

Lieven's making a shopping list for House of HR acquisitions in 2023.0.

Lieven (7m 31s):

Buy this and this and this and we're gonna buy all something like that. And I was trying to build the best I recruitment congress in the world and now I think have some work to do.

Chad (7m 41s):

Oh. which is going to be where next year?

Lieven (7m 46s):


Joel (7m 47s):

Hold on. So did I heaer him the eCongress is gonna be this size at some point. Like you have bigger ambitions than what it is?

Lieven (7m 58s):

Smaller yet better.

Joel (7m 60s):

Oh. Kinda like Belgium. Smaller but better. Matt, liked that one. Lieven's taken us to Moulin Rouge tonight. We need to be nice to Lieven.

Chad (8m 8s):

I need to work through that. Yes.

Joel (8m 11s):

Boobies and Champagne tonight apparently is what was on tap. It's France.

Chad (8m 15s):

It's France. So that should be standard. So yeah. So we started off with the Vonq rooftop party. matt, you were there. You were there.

Matt (8m 22s):

I was there.

Chad (8m 22s):

You were there.

Joel (8m 22s):

You were there. You got in a day before. Yep, I got in the day of the party. Did you come in on Tuesday?

Matt (8m 29s):

I literally came in, I landed an hour before the party started. I came straight to the party.

Chad (8m 33s):

So talk about last minute. I mean, Jesus Cheesman comes in like a few hours before. Then Alder makes.

Joel (8m 41s):

I ride in, I make my plans well in advance. The show starts on Wednesday. I come in on Tuesday. That gives me like 12 hours.

Chad (8m 51s):

Gotta know that something is happening prior.

Joel (8m 52s):

Get adjusted prior and then a month before a party gets scheduled or hey, somebody's doing it. So then it's like,

Chad (8m 59s):

It's Paris!

Joel (8m 60s):

I got two hours.

Chad (9m 1s):

It's Paris.

Joel (9m 1s):

Instead of 12 hours.

Chad (9m 3s):

You got a little nap. Yeah,

Joel (9m 4s):

Unfortunately I have a five year old, it's harder for me to,

Matt (9m 7s):

But you know, I'm on an hour time different. So I didn't really need it. Didn't really need a nap.

Chad (9m 12s):

Okay. That's good.

Joel (9m 15s):

That's good. And Matt always parties all the time. So he's ready to go.

Chad (9m 19s):


Joel (9m 19s):

At a moment's notice.

Chad (9m 21s):

Always. So that was a blast. Rooftop.

Joel (9m 25s):

Dude. Paris rooftop. Eiffel Tower. Sun setting. Perfect weather.

Chad (9m 29s):

Free drinks.

Joel (9m 31s):

Perfect weather. Yeah. Free drinks. French whiskey and fried chicken.

Chad (9m 35s):

French whiskey. Surprising.

Joel (9m 36s):

Surprisingly good.

Chad (9m 37s):

I could not believe the fried chicken.

Joel (9m 41s):

Some fried chicken at this party.

Chad (9m 42s):

You know what it tasted like? It was from some upscale shake and bake. That's what that shit was.

Joel (9m 47s):

Yeah, you're right. Chicken breast. And there was some steroids in these chickens cause they were huge. Chopped nicely. Breaded exquisitely.

Chad (9m 55s):

It was shake -n - bake.

Joel (9m 56s):

A nice little dip.

Chad (9m 58s):


Joel (9m 58s):

It was fantastic. And the French whiskey, I'm kind of convinced that it's Irish whiskey aged in some sort of French barrel.

Chad (10m 5s):

New label.

Joel (10m 6s):

Yeah, it's made in Bush Mills distillery. And then they aged over here.

Chad (10m 9s):

See I got Matt one of those and he was like, I'm not drinking that shit. I'm like, Matt, really? I'm like, Matt, Matt, try it.

Matt (10m 16s):

I really wanted a beer. That was why I really wanted a beer. They had a very nice IPA so it was good. But actually the whiskey was very nice. It'd be nice to know what it actually actually was.

Joel (10m 30s):

It was Irish whiskey?

Matt (10m 31s):

Irish generic French whiskey. Yeah, Maybe, Maybe.

Joel (10m 34s):


Matt (10m 34s):


Joel (10m 34s):

Definitely not scotch and definitely not bourbon.

Chad (10m 36s):

Say it was. Yeah, I know it was, it was a little, it was much smoother.

Joel (10m 39s):

It was light. Triple distilled for sure.

Chad (10m 43s):

Yeah. More of a sweeter.

Joel (10m 44s):

Yeah. So thanks to Vonq for having the party. Yeah. Supporting, supporting that. After that we had a nice Italian dinner that you took me to in Paris. Cuz that's what you do in Paris. You have Italian food.

Chad (10m 56s):

When you're going somewhere with Julie Sowash, that woman wants pasta. I mean, and she hadn't had pasta for a couple of days, so we had to make sure that she got it.

Joel (11m 5s):

She loves the noodle.

Chad (11m 6s):

Yes. The rigatone noodle. So yeah, no, that was a good time. Plenty of wine. Plenty of good time. The first day of the show got in here. I was really expecting to see more of kinda like a downsize because you know, people coming back. Is it gonna come slower? It didn't.

Joel (11m 22s):

This one might be a tad smaller, a tad more intimate. No?

Matt (11m 26s):

I think it's a similar size to the one there were three years ago. Yeah. I mean it's difficult to remember anything that happened before the pandemic. But it seems familiar at this kind of size.

Joel (11m 35s):

The Eightfold booth is smaller. Maybe that's why they didn't go with the 380 by 380 booth at this one.

Chad (11m 42s):

Maybe, they actually limit.

Joel (11m 43s):

Oh that would be very European.

Chad (11m 45s):

Yes. The amount of booths that you can have in one fucking space.

Joel (11m 49s):

Don't be too American with your booth size.

Chad (11m 51s):

No. Then we did dinner with Max from Talk Push last night.

Joel (11m 56s):

Yeah. Well we did a session with our friend Keith Sonderling, which was great. And that was well received. A good crowd.

Chad (12m 3s):

Which you're gonna hear right after this short update.

Joel (12m 6s):

Which will play for you after this. But yeah, funny story you, you took off to get ready for dinner, which we had with Max. I had the intention of going to the Eightfold party talking about Eightfold. And there are apparently two hotels of the same name that both have a rooftop bar. I went to the wrong hotel. I did go to the rooftop bar and I go up and I say Eightfold party and they spoke French so they didn't know what I was saying. Luckily I saw Sarah White and Lagunas.

Chad (12m 37s):

Kyle Lagunas?

Joel (12m 38s):

Yeah. In the corner there. And I said, yes, this is where I belong. They let me in. I had some Laphroaig.

Matt (12m 45s):

You got it right! You got it right.

Joel (12m 47s):

And it was great. I met some new friends and then left and met up with you at a real French Cafe, Bistro restaurant, whatever they call it.

Chad (12m 55s):

It was very small. As a matter of fact, Max Arm Brewster was actually spent a good amount of time.

Joel (13m 4s):

What did he have? Sheep brain?

Chad (13m 5s):

Some brain something.

Joel (13m 5s):

Gorilla Brain. That was a weird French.

Chad (13m 7s):

French will eat everything. Apparently. Apparently. They'll eat everything.

Joel (13m 10s):

Drink and eat everything.

Chad (13m 12s):

Yes. But yeah, to Talk Push thanks to Talk Push for dinner last night. Woke up this morning. I felt like shit not because of the alcohol.

Joel (13m 18s):


Chad (13m 19s):

Little bit of a cold.

Joel (13m 20s):

Yeah. You're dragging a little bit.

Chad (13m 23s):

Little bit. Little bit. But other than that,

Joel (13m 24s):

Chad dragging is like everyone else's 100%. So it's not too bad.

Chad (13m 30s):

And a shit ton of interviews we had Zev from Syndio. Oana was on stage with us. Yeah.