On this week's show, Joel always says "NEVER GO FULL GOOGLE!" Well... CareerBuilder went "FULL GOOGLE"
but wait there's more....
- Chips, wristbands and now brain sensors take over employee insights
Wait for El Chapo after the final credits...
Announcer: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.
Joel: We're back for another week, bitches. Welcome to Chad and Cheese, HR's most dangerous podcast. I'm Joel Cheesman.
Chad: And I'm El Chapo.
Joel: On this week's episode, it's a tale of two cities with Monster and CareerBuilder job search. Monster goes all Geico or gecko with their new ad strategy and China companies are putting a motion sensor headgear on employees to gauge happiness.
Joel: You have been warned, Glassdoor. Here's your new competitor. It's another fun-filled week in the recruiting industry, kids. Stay attuned.
Announcer: Sovren AI matching is the most sophisticated matching engine on the market because it acts just like a human. You decide exactly how our AI matching engine thinks about each individual transaction. It will find, rank and sort the best matches according to your criteria. Not only does it deliver the best matches. It tells you how and why it produced them and offers tips to improve the results. Our engine thinks like you so you don't have to learn how to think like the engine. To learn more about Sovren AI matching, visit sovren.com. That's S-O-V-R-E-N.com.
Chad: Smooth. I love it.
Joel: Silky smooth.
Chad: Silky smooth. Shout-out.
Joel: Let's go to the show, man. We got shout-outs.
Joel: You first.
Chad: Right out of the gate, Steven Rothberg of collegerecruiter.com fame, he loved the interview that we did with Thad over at Talroo and Amit at JobsAdX. If you haven't listened to that pod, it's very simple. Just go to chadcheese.com. Click on podcast in the upper right-hand corner and you will have plenty to listen to. Not to mention also, for some reason and I don't know, maybe it's 'cause I can't read, people love the transcripts.
Joel: I know.
Chad: People love the transcripts. We hear people that actually listen and read the transcripts at the same time. Thanks to our transcript people over at Disability Solutions. That's good stuff. Who do you got?
Joel: Does anyone have a better sponsorship lineup than our show?
Joel: I don't think so.
Chad: Not ever.
Joel: I don't think so. By the way, as long as our main navigation on chadcheese.com says podcasts, I can cope with you calling it a pod on the actual show, but if the navigation changes, you and I are going to have a problem. This shout-out goes to John Frazier. I recently wrote about CareerBuilder's trials and tribulations for ERE and shared it on LinkedIn. John was kind enough to comment. John is a former CareerBuilder salesperson. He currently works for Build Trust. He's also an Iowa grad, which is neither here nor there. Let you read into that however you'd like. Quote from John, "Cheesman, it's time to grow up and get off the HR tabloid train." John, John, thank you for reading. By the way, when you comment on my post, it means your network gets wind of it and they learn about my post as well. I appreciate all the love that John Fraser is giving us out there in the internet.
Chad: Yeah, yeah. Okay, John, that was sweet. Ed from Philly has a new podcast drinking game. Apparently, every time I say chatbots, he takes a shot. I'm going to have to amp up my use of the word chatbots, Ed. Chatbot.
Joel: Drink up, Ed.
Chad: Chatbot, chatbots.
Joel: Drink up, baby. Can he do that at work? Does he listen to us at work? That could cause problems.
Chad: I don't know. I don't know. He might just be doing this on the weekend, which is a great chatbots game. Not to mention, props to Job Board Doc. This guy tweets as he listens to the show, has comments about the things that we're saying, likes it, doesn't it, it's all good, but props to the Job Board Doctor.
Joel: That dude needs to get a life in a big way. I think all he does is listen to us.
Chad: Stop it. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
Joel: I'd like to also introduce maybe a brand new game.
Joel: I'd say every time we say CareerBuilder ...
Chad: Lastly, trip. Yes, there will be a trip. I just don't know when and where yet ...
Joel: I don't know, just an idea. It might be some good comic relief.
Chad: Oh, shit, dude.
Joel: We might need to shorten that to just El Chapo, whatever that quote is. That sound bite was pretty good.
Chad: Yeah, I'll work on that. Last for me, the Joel Hates Baker Mayfield, the draft night video received over 5500 views on LinkedIn. That shit was hilarious.
Joel: I could not believe I'm still seeing likes and comments from that video. It was a very dark moment for me so I'm glad that the world can revel in my misery and the rest of my Browns fans.
Chad: Dude, how can the Browns just screw stuff up constantly, constantly. Anyway ...
Joel: Yeah. I'll also add that they passed up on the best defensive player in the draft at number four. Yeah, I hope that works out well for us, but I'm not real hopeful after almost 20 years of misery.
Chad: They did pick up a who they can put on an island.
Joel: They did. They need a corner. We'll see. We'll see.
Chad: Yeah, yeah. Corners are hard to come by.
Joel: On that note, I'll say we get to the show. CB goes all Google. Tell us about it.
Chad: Yeah, CareerBuilder is going full Google, which I think it was you that said-
Joel: Not just the tip.
Chad: Yeah, I think it was you that said never go full Google. They put out a case study with Google and apparently now, CareerBuilder is 100% job search on the Google platform, which is that's saying a lot, man. I mean they've been around since 1995. They're a huge name in our industry and they realize that Google is going to do search better than they are, period. Doesn't matter, right? So 40% increase in users viewing jobs on their talent networks, which is big because the talent networks are actually the pages that they've created for their clients and they're more of like the cosmetic pages, more of the SEO types marketing pages. So they're getting 40% more on those pages, the talent network pages alone, which is pretty big.
Joel: Can I be a little devil's advocate on this?
Joel: I'm keeping with this. Now ... By the way going full Google is fine, but going full Monty, I always recommend to anyone. There is a little danger here in getting totally in bed and married with Google for your job search. Isn't there?
Chad: Yeah, yeah.
Joel: I mean Google can turn that shit off. They can start charging an arm and a leg. I mean there are pitfalls to this, although the fact that we apparently know that most of the engineers at CareerBuilder are leaving. It is saving a hell of a lot money on the overhead and the technology piece, which makes things more profitable, which we know their private equity firm does love, but I do want to point out there is some danger in getting fully in bed with Google, Facebook and others like that.
Chad: Agreed. Agreed, but those I think are the risks that you have to take because if you know that you are not going to out-Google Google I mean from a search standpoint, then I mean why waste money in trying to put your horse and buggy up against their Ferrari? To me, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Plus, they've also seen a lift in the number of users viewing jobs sent via automated alerts, 15% up on that. I mean it's more than just search. It's improving qualified applicants across the different major job categories like close to 20%. To your point, the chief product officer, I think his name's Humair, he pretty much said that the Google team, the Google team of engineers, incredibly responsive with his team. It's almost like they didn't need to have all those resources.
Chad: Yes, some of the engineers that are definitely leaving on the search side of the house, that's only a portion of what CareerBuilder does, this I think will definitely alleviate that pain, but yeah, I mean it seems like that has been a good move for them to be able to move to this type of a search. It's a better search. There's no question. Then selling off, what we talked about last week, selling of Emsi. I mean they didn't know how to sell it. It was less than 1% of their revenues and if you don't know how to sell it, you don't know how to leverage it, shit, get rid of it. Those are a couple of good moves that we've seen by CareerBuilder.
Joel: Can't touch this. I had to say that. MC Hammer. Let us not forget the lesson of BranchOut who was very successful on Facebook's platform until Facebook decided to change things up and destroy the company. I will tell you one company in the job board space that's pretty well known that is not getting on the Google train and that's Monster, who we know and talked about changes at the top, which have already been made. Most of their positions are filled, minus president/CEO, which we're still in the running for that obviously. They've decided to enhance job search as sort of phase 1 of their site recalculation and they're doing it on their own. They're increasing speed. They're increasing what they think is the matching component, jobs to candidates, and most importantly, my jaw dropped on the floor when I read this, they're getting rid of banner ads on both the website and the email alerts. You and I are old enough to remember when Monster looked like a NASCAR race.
Chad: Oh, dude.
Joel: They were asking for Social Security numbers and interstitial ads, pop ups. Yeah, that to me was crazy.
Chad: Treasure Island, I think it was 2007, Jason Goldberg and you actually caught it on tape and put it on Cheezhead that is when he really blew that up and called Monster a crap product mainly because of these different interstitial ads, these different types of banner ads, this NASCAR-ing of Monster. Yeah, I know it's great to see that they're focusing on the usability. There's no question there. Here's the thing though. You can still do that and not have to plunk a bunch of money into search because when it comes down to it, you are still going to have to compete with the best search in the business, which is going to be Google.
Joel: I agree. I just think getting in bed with another solution is dangerous and I think Monster is probably, although they're spending more than they'd probably want to, and some of these changes aren't crazy like speeding up your site, getting rid of crappy stuff like banner ads. These aren't insane changes that require a lot of people. But anyway, I think it's interesting how you have two sort of old time-y players. One's like, "Cut it all out, cut every resource and overhead that we have and get in bed with Google." The other's saying like, "Let's get a new executive team on board. Let's get some new resources thrown at this." Ultimately, I think they'll both lose to Google in some way or another and all the other bigger players, but for this point, it makes for interesting podcast topics.
Chad: We've also heard that the API from many of the job boards that are out there, the API is pretty expensive. If you're a big site, it looks like you're going to be able to prospectively afford it, but they might have to take a look at it for smaller sites and the actual pricing for API calls.
Joel: Yeah, right. Google gets you hooked on the heroin, right, the first few bits are free or cheap and then wham-o, we're going to increase the prices on you. Guess what? You can't do anything because you laid off all your resources and engineers so you're kind of screwed.
Chad: Yeah, totally get it.
Joel: You know how that goes. All right, we love talking about advertising and Monster, who continually gets it wrong with advertising we think, maybe got it right this time. You like the new ads.
Chad: Yeah. I really feel like Monster's going Geico where they've got this monster, this little fuzzy, instead of this little nice little fuzzy monster that they can use in some-
Joel: What do you call it? The Bugs Bunny-
Chad: Knockoff, yeah, that's a rip off.
Joel: Rip off.
Chad: Bugs bunny cartoon. But it's almost like they're going the whole Geico route where Geico has the cute little gecko and that's for one demographic. Then the other demographic have these very smart, really brilliant kind of ads. I see Monster starting to do that and I think some of this is because they spent so God damn much money on that stupid freaking monster in the first place. From what we've heard from ad agencies and what not, kind of estimations and what not, that that one ad that they did was over $1 million.
Joel: Does that monster have a name? The old one was Trumpasaurus, which I'm sure Donald sued them for that. I don't think the new one has a monster ... Yes, Monster takes Manhattan was a pretty bad ad. These new ones are quick 15-second ones and it's like yeah, I'm looking for a job on Monster. It'll never happen. Then they're switched with the new employee because Monster is so fast with the hiring process. My takeaway from the ads is I think advertising should work really hard to differentiate yourself from the competition. All the Indeed ads look really anti-Google. They're anti-technology, faces, a lot of human stuff, don't let algorithms destroy us kind of thing.
Chad: Yeah, I still think they're trying to find their way in who they are, in who they're trying to message to be because none of it really gels at all.
Joel: Are we talking Indeed or Monster?
Chad: Yeah, Indeed, Indeed. The Monster ads I think are great, 15-second ads. The One Foot Out the Door campaign that they put out first and they have three or four different ... One Foot Out the Door, a doctor who had one foot out the door, I mean those are really cool. They're really smart. They were funny. Then this newest one called Boxes where, as you'd said, it's really cheeky and they're pushing the mobile app. I think it's really cool. I was talking to somebody earlier this week and I think they had some great advice. Run that first Super Bowl ad again. It's cool. Now because it's a throwback and you don't have to spend a dime on recreating it. It's a classic and maybe some of those people can fall back in love with the Monster they once knew before Sal's dumb ass came and screwed everything up.
Joel: It's akin to rehashing the old Coca-Cola commercial of "I'd like to teach the world to sing."
Joel: I want to get back to my differentiation point before you interrupted me so rudely.
Chad: Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I do that.
Joel: To me, the differentiator of Indeed is like we're human and Google is a machine, right, but no one has really thought about mobile first job search, like we are the mobile solution. In a generation that's really mobile in terms of millennials and people who don't remember Monster ads back in 1998 and personally think Monster is an energy drink, to me, the differentiator in this ad is that Monster is positioning itself as the mobile solution to find jobs, which appeals to a younger audience I think, but also most people, particularly on a television set where they have their mobile device, but I would really like to see Monster sort of push this mobile thing and really create solutions for the watch, which we know from quarterly reports from Apple, people are buying this watch and they're buying smart watches. I think voice stuff, they should get big into that, leapfrog this whole internet search thing, Google thing and really be above and beyond what we typically think of job search.
Chad: It has to be lifestyle, right, and if you can embed yourself in the lifestyle, in the wearables ... I'm still not a big believer in wearables just yet, but I mean being able to talk to Google Home, to turn your lights off, to be able to get reports on jobs and things of that nature, I think there's no question, it's smart and I believe again, that's where instead of spending money on your search and making your search better, right, don't do that shit, dude. Just spend the money on being able to evolve in these different areas.
Joel: I also think ... Have you seen the new Facebook ad? Where they talk about how Facebook started. It connected everyone and then it got bad with hackers, Russian shit. Then now we're going to change that and be back to what we used to be. Have you seen this ad?
Chad: I haven't seen that ad, no.
Joel: Which is a great ad and it sort of goes in line with the old Dominos ad that we used to talk about where they said, "Hey, our pizza sucks. We're going to change it." I'd love to see Monster come out with an industry ad, even if it's just a YouTube video that says, "Hey, HR person, we know we lost our way. We forgot about the job seeker, blah, blah, blah, but we're under new management now. We're going to change that and here's what we're doing, the change that we're making." I think that would be a really genius move by monster. I don't know if they're going to do it or not, but I certainly think that they should.
Chad: They could do that. They could do that with that old Super Bowl ad, right, and say, "The Monster that you knew and loved ... "
Joel: Yeah. I mean going back to your roots, "Here's when we were good. Remember when you liked us?" I don't think that whole ad should be that 'cause again, I think there's a whole generation that can't connect with that ad, particularly on the job seeker side, but to sort of reconnect with that like, "Hey, here's how we evolved. We were on the forefront of job search on online. We lost our way. Now we're back and we're on mobile. We're doing all these things." Anyway, we're basically doing Monster's marketing for them and we probably should not do that for free, but this is what we do on this show. Speaking of not for free, unless you have any more point to make on the ads, I say let's hear from one of our awesome sponsors.
Chad: I would just like to say that you said Indeed is trying to be more human and knowing how they've been interacting in this industry, they've been probably the coldest, hardest brand to work with. That's to me is rich. If they want to change and become more human, they should act it.
Joel: Damn. All right, we'll end on that.
Announcer: America's Job Exchange is a market leader in diversity recruitment and an OFCCP compliant solution provider. We serve over 1,000 customers consisting of federal contractors and subcontractors to SMBs and Fortune 500 organizations. America's Job Exchange specializes in job distribution to over 6500 state one-step career centers and community-based organizations, ensures the creation and maintenance of state credentials, obtains veteran preference on job postings, robust outreach management and supports effective positive recruitment efforts designed to recruit individuals with disabilities, veterans, women and minorities. For more information, call us at 866-926-6284 or visit us at www.americasjobexchange.com.
Chad: Yeah, looking for outcomes, want a more diverse workforce, give AJE a call.
Joel: You just love you some compliance and diversity and [crosstalk 00:20:47].
Chad: Dude, research shows that a more diverse culture in your organization, it drives success. I'm all about success.
Joel: Okay, Donald.
Chad: Thank you.
Joel: Let's about a story out of Microsoft LinkedIn and why they paid $26.2 billion for LinkedIn. You love this story. Tell us about it.
Chad: Dude, it's huge. Really, we're talking about ...
Chad: ... looking to kill SalesForce with Dynamics 365 coupled with LinkedIn and I think ... We'll go through this, but at the end of it, there's some shining hope possibly for talent acquisition to be able to use these same processes and the same Dynamics 365 type of platform. Right out of the gate, the 365 actually will power products pages for companies, which allows lead forms and those types of things. When you start to get the cookies and the actual information from lead forms, then you can start to re-target. This is all sales focused, but still it's engagement. It's much like talent acquisition. We're still trying to get that individual who has the skills and obviously, the experience that we need. They know your browsing history. They can hit you with obviously email engagement with different sales triggers. It really gets deep into engagement from a customer standpoint, right.
Chad: This is where they're turning their guns with LinkedIn toward SalesForce. Here's a really cool piece that they're putting into this and this is very Big Brother. If a buyer really seems disengaged, what the system will do is prompt you to through LinkedIn ask one of your shared people in your network to get an introduction to this person.
Joel: I need to stop you because for the guy who gave me such a hard time for "drinking the LinkedIn Kool-Aid," you, sir, sound like you're enjoying a nice cold glass of LinkedIn right now.
Chad: From a talent acquisition side of the house, it's all about engagement. If we in talent acquisition start viewing the candidate as a customer and use these powerful engagement systems, the business will better understand us and then, we will better understand them. We will be able to start getting candidates the way and engaging candidates the way that we should have for years and get rid of the black hole. It's not just about LinkedIn doing this. We see other companies like the Candidate.IDs, we see Crowded, we see all these companies. I'm big on being able to ensure that we get rid of this God damn black hole that we've had for decades.
Joel: I'm just glad that you're finally agreeing with me on some of these points.
Chad: Fuck off.
Joel: I think that SalesForce is an obvious target for Microsoft paying for this. I think Google is another and maybe less so Facebook, but Google had to be super pissed that they lost social to Facebook and then, they lost LinkedIn to Microsoft. That has to rub them in all kinds of the wrong way. I agree SalesForce is upset and ticked off, although, I think it's a much smaller player than what we're talking about with Google and enterprise stuff and software, but yeah, the 26 billion at the time made a lot of jaws drop and I think when all is said and done, the LinkedIn acquisition by Microsoft will go down as one of the more savvy acquisitions by a major company in a long time.
Joel: Speaking of acquisitions, let's keep on that for a second. You're also really excited about the StepStone acquisition of Universum. Tell us who those guys are for those who don't know and why you're excited by it.
Chad: Yeah. StepStone, they have job sites in 21 countries. They have a ton of job sites, over 25, 26 million different CVs, 15 million active subscribers. StepStone is a huge network of job boards all across the world. It's global. Universum, on the other hand, is a Swedish data company that focuses on branding, building stories, slogans and market insights. All these things, all these warm and fluffy things are focused around engagement, right. You've got this hard line job board provider in a StepStone and they don't have anything that's really there to pull people in and engage them. That's what Universum is there to help them with.
Joel: I think we both agree in talking initially, this is driven by Google. What do we mean by that?
Chad: Yeah, no question. Google is making companies. Now let's say for instance, StepStone, without Google getting into the market and showing their hand that hey, we're going to push Google for jobs everywhere, StepStone has to be something more than just a bunch of job boards because they are not going to be able to compete with Google in many of the different countries that they're in. Now obviously, there are going to be high priority countries that are more susceptible right out of the gate, but still, it makes a hell of a lot of sense that they start to diversify the portfolio that they're going to be providing so that they can diversify revenue streams because the one revenue stream, jobs ...
Joel: Yeah. Bye-bye.
Joel: It's so interesting how companies, how job boards are deciding to fight Google for jobs, right. You have Indeed saying, "To hell with it, we're not playing. We're building a moat and hopefully, the Huns will stay at bay." We're looking at CareerBuilder who's saying, "Screw it. We'll get in bed big time. We'll cut overhead and have Google just run all of out shit." You have Monster sort of playing, but we're going to keep our own search. It's ultimately making job boards look in the mirror and say, "The future is Googles in terms of job postings and how do we combat that?" In StepStone's instance, and I think you're right that it was driven probably by Google and looking at the future, and maybe even seeing traffic numbers with any state side or [stalking the 00:27:11] state side companies and what Google is doing and we know that they're launching in Canada and India and soon to be in a country near you. In this case, they're saying, "Hey, let's get on the branding train. Let's help companies with that."
Joel: We've talked about the impact that Glassdoor reviews and employer reviews are incredibly impactful. They affect recruiting. They affect people turning down job offers so branding is going to continually be a major important part of company's outlook whether its job's on Google or not. I think it's a good step. We don't know how much they paid for it. That wasn't disclosed, but one job board's strategy to combat Google we're sort of on board with for the most part.
Chad: Yeah, yeah, no question. Wait, we still got ...
Joel: Facebook. We can't have a show without the big three.
Chad: We got more StepStone stuff because totaljobs and Jobsite became one. There's more news out of StepStone. To be able to ... First, you buy Universum.
Joel: Sorry. Yeah. StepStone, what'd they do next?
Chad: All right, dumb ass. Two of their sites, TotalJobs and Jobsite are now under one platform, but that seems like an amazing waste of money. Dude, this is the business side of things. I know you have problems understanding it sometimes, but this makes sense.
Joel: Sorry, sorry. Are we on to the next story yet?
Chad: You don't think it's important that these business models, about these business models and we go back to the Monster board and OCC business models and how that actually came up, right. What happened under that? Do you remember? That was kind of big at that point, right. These are two of the biggest job sites in fucking England, the UK, and you don't think it's a big deal. Are you kidding me?
Joel: Dude, calm down.
Chad: You're the one snoring and shit.
Joel: I'm sorry. I apologize to our UK affiliates that I found that not too exciting. Sorry. You're salty today. I should be the salty one. I got the Browns to root for. Anyway, are we on to the next story?
Joel: It's a simple one. Facebook, we can't have a show without talking Facebook, LinkedIn, Microsoft, Indeed and Facebook. They continue to focus on their Slack competitor AtWork. This week announced they've integrated with 50 SaaS solutions and they've launched a bot directory or they've partnered with a bot directory or integrated with a bot directory so Slack needs to sell fast. I don't know what is going on with them, but Facebook continues to be focused on this piece of their business. We haven't heard much from the job search stuff yet, but I see ads for work all the time and news alerts come across my desk fairly frequently about their messaging system.
Chad: It's scary because now are we going to have to worry about Russian bots trying to engage us and get data from us that way, too? Facebook doesn't have this shit figured out yet, but yet we're looking at bots in different ways to actually engage users to prospectively pull more data out of them. Is that what I'm hearing?
Joel: As long as they're not integrating with the KGB, I guess that ...
Chad: They didn't know that before.
Joel: That's true. I mean Facebook Connect is still a thing. A whole bigger question is do people really give a damn about their privacy on Facebook? I don't know. I don't think you're seeing mass exodus from Facebook, but they will play the game. They'll play the PR game. They will do some security updates and checks, and they'll make sure this doesn't happen again, but the fact that they want to put work in as many integrations as possible, I think that says they're serious about employment. I don't think they've ever not been serious and I expect to see more stuff from their job posting/classifieds/we-want-to-kill-Craigslist strategy, but for now work seems to be a real focus for them, which is why Amazon will buy Slack this year.
Chad: You're still banking on that one. You're still banking on that one.
Joel: Yeah. Yeah.
Chad: Yeah, again, I don't think they're going to buy them for $9 billion or whatever the valuation is right now, but yeah. No, to watch Facebook move more toward business, I just hope they do it in a very sensible way.
Joel: I agree. Let's hear from new sponsor, JobAdX and then, we'll talk about real fun stuff.
Chad: Oh, Jesus.
Announcer: JobAdX, as the best ad tool in the industry, we provide publishers and job boards higher rev share than other partners through our smarter programmatic platform. In many cases, 30-40% greater and more. We're like Ad-sense, but with a better split for you and added relevance for your audience. JobAdX also offers recruitment marketing agencies, RPOs and staffing firms, real time dynamic bidding and delivery for your clients' postings through the industry's first truly responsive tool. Not set and regret.
Announcer: All of this is done with the flexibility of cost per impression, click, or application. We also offer unique budget conservation options to effectively eliminate spending waste. Finally, JobAdX delivers direct clients, superior candidates through the best of programmatic efficiency and premium page ad positioning. To partner with us, you can visit or search jobadx.com. You can also email us at joinus@J-O-B-A-D-X.com to get estimates or to begin working together. JobAdX, the best ad tool