ZipRecruiter is Droppin' Mad Stacks
Chad and Cheese land after HR Tech in Vegas drop this crazy podcast - like it's hot - and now off to New Orleans for TA Tech and Startup Death Match. That's right, the boys are covering the industry as only they can - hard and fast.
This weeks Topics
- CareerBuilder launches Pokemon for Jobs
- ZipRecruiter just sponsored the world's most popular podcast
- Is that Google in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
- Facebook staves off the ACLU
- Rigzone sells - well kinda
- It's DHI in for a hostile takeover? How do those owrk anyway?
It's on baby! Be sure to visit sponsors Sovren and JobAdX. They complete us.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Disability Solutions is your bridge to the disability community, delivering custom solutions in outreach, recruiting, talent management and compliance.
Announcer: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's Most Dangerous Podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.
Joel: It's another midnight oil episode, and I'm not talking about the Ozzie band from the '80s. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese Podcast, HR's Most Dangerous. I'm your co-host, Joel Cheesman.
Chad: And I'm Vontae Davis and I quit.
Joel: Dude, we haven't even gotten to halftime, what are you talking about? On this week's episode, Career Builder thinks you'll finally fall in love with augmented reality.
Chad: Oh, God.
Joel: Facebook gets sued for recruitment advertising practices, and is that Google in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me? Poor a cold glass of Zima. Someone could get in trouble tonight.
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Chad: I think I'm gonna actually put like the sovereign banjo in the back of that and see how it sounds.
Joel: I think the voice over for Job, we may have the sexiest most sultry, voice over ads in the podcast universe by far. And anymore Zimas and I might, you know.
Chad: Don't even ...
Joel: Well, I'm not gonna ask you because you don't know. Anyone out there, if they still sell Zima, hit us up on Twitter, #ChadCheese because I don't know if they do or not. I may have made a joke that totally just aged myself, and fell on deaf ears for like anyone under 40 or something.
Chad: I think you aged yourself when you said, Twitters. Like with an S.
Joel: I didn't say Twitters.
Chad: You totally did.
Joel: Hey. It's late at night and I've had a couple whiskeys, but I'm pretty sure I did not say Twitters a la George Bush and the internets. So people apparently love these late night shows, so we're gonna roll with it. We're gonna see how this goes.
Joel: Yeah, let's get the shout out, so who you got?
Chad: New big fan. That's what he calls himself. Stephen Porter over at FTD gets a shout out. Thanks for the listening, Stephen. Now, all you have to do is get your peers, your clients, and your family listening to Chad and Cheese. Go.
Joel: I like it, I like it. Shout out to Doug Johnson of Jobalign, CEO. Just some nice comments via LinkedIn. He's a fan. Thought I would just give him a shout out.
Chad: Good man. Tim Oliver Proehm, over at Kelly OCG in Germany. He tweeted this. You're not gonna believe it. He tweeted his personal highlight from the first day of HR tech was meeting me, talking programmatic bots, and TA cool shit. I paraphrased that last part. We sat down, had coffee. Gerry Crispin showed up, joined the conversation. We talked about Burning Man for about 20 minutes because he just got back. And that's my friend, how you do coffee. So, thanks, Tim. Really appreciate it buddy.
Joel: So, meeting you was his highlight.
Chad: Yeah, like everybody's.
Joel: All right, shout out to Brett Morris, CEO at Perception Performance Intelligence. Thank God I'm not a sales person at his company. And an Aussie, so he may be getting this early morning tomorrow, or tonight. Big fan of the show. We appreciate you listening, Brett. Keep up the listenership.
Chad: Shawna Williams from Comcast, thanks for listening.
Joel: And that's not for your cable connection, right?
Chad: No, it is for my connection, because I've got a kick ass connection. Infinity. Or Xfinity, whatever the fuck they call it. Nancy from Philly. Thanks for the QA QC, Nancy. Apparently I forgot the E on spelling judge.com website on this week's shred, and I got flamed by Nancy. So thanks, Nancy.
Joel: We're gonna have to keep our sponsors to like five words. Five letters or less so that Chad can spell everything. Love Judge. Peter Weddle shout out. Most of the kids out there will know Peter for the TA Tech conference, but Peter's quite a writer and sent both of us an advance copy or a copy of Circa 2118, if man is still alive, what will we be doing when the robots take over? So I, doing a lot of traveling next week, will make my greatest effort to read, Circa 2118 and probably slash my wrists because I'll be so depressed about what's gonna happen to humanity, but shout out to Peter Weddle for the book.
Chad: I think what Peter did, was he actually just took the transcriptions from our show and he put it in the book. That's fine, it's okay, Peter.
Joel: Are you calling Peter a plagiarizer?
Chad: I don't think it can be a plagiarist if we didn't actually write it, it's just a transcription.
Joel: Well anyway, Peter.
Chad: Props, props to Dave Phoebus from Farmer's Insurance. He heard us talking about Canvas on the pod, and guess who showed up in his office this week with swag?
Joel: Canvas. We are Farmer's, bump da bump, da bump, bump, bump.
Chad: Bill Fanning for the 24 beers he sent me in the mail, because he loves me and he wanted to say thank you. Bill, you are the man.
Joel: We need to start a score card of alcoholic gifts from fans and listeners. You got the lead, so anyone out there who wants to send me any kind of booze whatsoever, please feel free to do so. I'm trying to build up my Irish whiskey collection, so feel free to hook me up with something.
Chad: Well, between Bill and Brendan over at Emissary, my beer fridge is stocked. So, if you wanna send craft beer, I'm your guy. That's all there is to it. Not to mention bourbon. So, one of those two. Anything else, Scotch whiskey, you can send it to Jughead over there.
Joel: How many did he send you, like a case?
Chad: Twenty-four, man.
Joel: Oh my God.
Chad: Yeah, legit. Legit.
Joel: That's some bullshit right there. All right, shout out to, this is a good one I think. Ed Illig, I hope I'm ... maybe I don't hope that I'm saying that correctly. So, there's a company out here in my back, back door, back yard, called Emplify. They just got seven and a half million dollars. Ed is their marketing person, and I've made multiple attempts to contact the company. Like, "Hey, come on, interview you. Learn more about the company," you know. And I've got nothing. I mean, they're literally in the same little bitty borough here in Indianapolis as me. So, Ed, shout out I guess, but really more of sort of a ... You're just not doing your job man.
Chad: Does he not know who you are?
Joel: Well, and you too, man. Come on. You'd make the trek up for Emplify, wouldn't you?
Chad: Yeah, he'd have to spend money on dinner though. Here's the big shout out. Shout out to my wife, Julie Sowash. Tomorrow is our anniversary. Going to Louisville to see St. Paul and The Broken Bones. If you haven't listened to those guys, look them up on YouTube or whatever. Kick ass music. Looking forward to that.
Joel: And yeah, I wanna drug test on her, because you're clearly giving her something to hallucinate into thinking that she's married to George Clooney or something. Because I can't figure out why she married you in the first place and why she's still married to you. But, Julie, hats off to you. I'm kind of his second wife in this whole podcast thing. I can only imagine what a full time marriage is like to Chad Sowash.
Chad: It's wonderful.
Joel: Shout out from me to SourceCon, taking place next week. I'll be making a brief appearance, but I know a lot of our listeners will be going to the fabled sourcing event. All the freaks and geeks out there in sourcing will be there. Hopefully not crying in their beers at the fact that automation will be putting them all out of business in the next five to ten years, but come out to SourceCon, I'll be there.
Chad: They should all pick up Peter Weddle's book, Circa 2118.
Joel: Yeah, Peter, if you're listening, FedEx me a box of books so I can take them to SourceCon.
Chad: Ooh, okay. Are we gonna do this show or what?
Joel: Well let's do a quick Death Match shout out. Next week, TA Tech, if you're not there, FU. Death Match, ALLYO, Canvas, Uncommon, and Talk, push it real good, are taking the stage with Chad, myself, Faith Rothberg, surprise guests, who knows. We're gonna be having a helluva time out there at New Orleans. Shout out to everyone that's going. It should be a great time, and we'll probably do a little bit of live recording, some interviews. There should be some great content coming out of the show. And that is my final shout out.
Chad: Ooh, talk to me.
Joel: Okay. So Career Builder hoping to one up Monster's release of Monster Studios, dropped augmented reality as part of their newly fangled mobile application, only for us iOS users, sorry Chad.
Chad: That's okay.
Joel: But if you don't know AR, basically you turn your app on, you turn the camera on, on the app. You point it down Main Street and it bubbles up and shows you jobs that are in the buildings from whence you are pointing your camera. And if that doesn't sell you on it, I don't know what will.
Chad: Yeah. It's Pokemon for jobs.
Joel: If it would only be that fun.
Chad: Gotta catch them all. Catch all those fucking jobs, guys. Yeah so, I'm not sure that Career Builder, we talked about the booth, and now we're talking about this AR Pokemon for jobs thing. I'm not sure if they understand the practicality of anything that they're doing right now. They've got some really good product, and they're not spending time focusing on showcasing that. This to me, once again, I hope is going to change in the next few months, because I would love to be able to see this new CEO rip this thing around and actually do better than what they've been doing for the last five to who knows how many years.
Joel: So, you're hoping that this new CEO with the financial background is going to tech up the company basically?
Chad: I don't have high hopes, dude. I do not, but again, I'm cheering for them, although they also know that when they do stupid shit like Pokemon for jobs, we're gonna say it. This is dumb.
Joel: So let me read you the headline from the official press release of this product.
Joel: "Career Builder Creates a Major Industry Disruption with AI Technology That Delivers Next Generation Mobile Job Search and Hiring".
Joel: Do you think they're building it up a little too much with the PR? Here's my take on this, if apps like Yelp, Hotel Tonight, Groupon, real things that probably might work with augmented reality that people might actually point their camera down a street and see what restaurants are there, how do they rate, if none of them are embracing augmented reality, do I really think that people are gonna open up their phone and point it down the street and look at job postings at buildings nearby? I really do not.
Chad: I'm just waiting for them to come out with their new second life job fair app or some shit like that.
Joel: They need to have filters, like Career Builder filters. Someone is gonna get mobile right with job search, but it's not gonna be Career Builder probably, and it's definitely not gonna be augmented reality by Career Builder.
Chad: Yeah, and last week when you were teasing us and I told you sarcastically that I was sitting on the edge of my seat, this is why, because I knew it was gonna be bullshit.
Joel: All right, moving on to a real company called Facebook. They're getting sued. We did talk about this a while back, people were pissed about the companies targeting on Facebook by, oh I don't know, age ...
Chad: Yeah, gender.
Joel: ... gender, location. There's all these cool ways to target on Facebook. Well some people aren't real happy about that, including the ACLU, who decided to sue the company, reported by Pro Publica. Facebook let Uber and 14 other firms advertise jobs exclusively to one gender over the other last year.
Joel: Let's see what else we got. They also say that recruitment ads for nurses at a healthcare facility in Idaho, a diversity hotbed I might add, were marketed exclusively to women.
Joel: Facebook says it does not tolerate discrimination. The ACLU has filed an official complaint against them over this issue. I know you're really pretty fired up over this.
Chad: These guys are fucking stupid. First off, Pro Publica puts out this article and it's titled, "Facebook is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men". And they talk about Uber and how Uber's been targeting men and so on, and so forth. I love the "letting". It's that they're allowing them to do this, like Chevy is allowing someone to get into an accident.
Joel: We were allowing you to promote your erectile dysfunction drug to men only.
Chad: Yeah, exactly. Think of this, over the years rock and roll radio, male dominated demo, but if I do ads on that, employment ads, wait a minute, I'm discriminating. Bullshit!
Joel: Separate the article from the actual lawsuit, I understand the spinning of the article sucks.
Chad: The lawsuit's bullshit too. It's the same thing.
Joel: I totally agree. To me it's like ACLU trying to get some pub. I understand hiring and discrimination is different than, "I want to sell erectile dysfunction drugs ... ", and I'm not sure why I'm on erectile dysfunction drugs, it has nothing to do with me personally, but that's on the company.
Joel: So my question is, who made the decision that Uber and these 14 other firms to advertise the way that they did? Was it the company's marketing department? Was it the recruitment ad agency? Was it the HR department? Who do you think was the decision maker in where these ads were posted?
Chad: Who cares? Because it doesn't fucking matter. You know what matters? The composition of the workforce is what matters. And if they are heavy in the male side of the house they will get slammed with fines. We're talking and focusing on the wrong shit here, that's the problem. We look at the workforce and we see that there are issues and then we start looking at areas that aren't the big problem.
Chad: If the company's responsibility is to be able to make sure that they have the right mix in composition diversity, all that stuff, period. It's the company's responsibility, not the advertising medium.
Chad: At the end of the day, who cares? Outcomes are all that matters.
Joel: So do you think that Uber .. . And we're just pointing them out because they were named in the article ... Do you think Uber has a responsibility to, if they're advertising to men between 25 and whatever, 22 and 35 or whatever, do they have the responsibility to also target other genders?
Chad: Think of it from an advertising aspect. I'm kind of backing out in to my media background. First off, they might have done Facebook for who knows how long, and they've actually shown that they're wasting their money in broader scale on the female demographic on Facebook where they might be able to spend their money somewhere else in more female dominated demo mediums and actually spend money there. It's all about where are you getting the best ROI.
Chad: If I want to go broad and say, "I'm gonna throw this out to everyone", like a dumb ass, then yeah, okay ACLU, that's what we'll do, we'll just waste our damn money. But if you're focused on actual ROI and in marketing and you know what target audience responds best with what the specific medium then that's what you do. That's what a media mix is.
Chad: For the ACLU and/or Pro Publica to actually come out and say this stupid shit, it's ridiculous.
Joel: So let's say 20 years ago a brand new company only marketed in the Wall Street Journal, do they have responsibility to market in demographics that aren't in the Wall Street Journal?
Chad: Again, the only thing that matters is the outcomes of those efforts, number one. And their workforce composition, done. I don't care if you do everything in male dominated fashion, you had better have a workforce in [crosstalk 00:19:35].
Joel: Wait a minute, so you're saying the proof is in the workers?
Chad: The outcomes.
Joel: The outcomes, so who are you employing?
Joel: So you don't care about where you advertise?
Joel: Where you spent your money as long as the end product is effective then that's what counts?
Chad: That's what matters.
Joel: And by the way, don't we have laws on the books to support that?
Chad: Yes. And we have all these different acronym agencies that enforce it. So we're talking about stupid shit is what we're doing. The only thing that matters is the action of hiring, and who was hired. That's it.
Joel: All right. I feel like I didn't know as much about this topic as I do now, and I want to thank you for that.
Chad: Well you're welcome.
Joel: Let's go onto Rig Zone. Sorry I haven't rang the bell in a while, I felt like doing that.
Joel: This is your deal. Rig Zone, Sold, and DHI is getting stressed about takeovers and shit.
Chad: Right. So we're gonna have to talk to Art next week because we're gonna be in NOLA.
Joel: DHI's CEO.
Chad: Yep. Dice and the other job force transferred a majority ownership of its Rig Zone business to Rig Zone's management team. What they did was, the management team was there and they were like, "You know what, you want to get rid of this, you said you were going to divest anyway, just sell it to us. We`ll take it back, we'll take it off your hands and then you can go ahead and do your tech focused shit." And that's pretty much what happened. So they just sold it back to Rig Zone's management team.
Joel: I feel like I need to refresh people's memory about the idiot who sold Rig Zone in the first place.
Joel: And stole all the data and then tried to sell it back to DHI or Rig Zone and then started his [crosstalk 00:21:24]. Yeah, he's in jail now anyway. That's just such a damn funny story, I had to bring it back up.
Joel: And so what's going on with DHI shareholders?
Chad: Yeah at the end of this it was interesting because it says, I'm gonna go ahead and read this off. "Hedge fund TSC Capital Management last month offered to buy DHI group for $2.50 per share in cash and said it would force a proxy contest against the existing board at DHI's 2019's annual meeting of shareholders if the company does not engage in the transaction. This sounds about as hostile as you can fucking get.
Joel: Yeah, I'm not real versed on hostile takeovers, I feel like it's a shout out to the '80s movies of Wall Street and a few others.
Chad: [crosstalk 00:22:13] hand in the air and say, "You better sell this shit to me", or if this could potentially be a hostile takeover.
Joel: We did a story a few months ago I guess, it might have been the same firm that came in and said that the company was undervalued, it was worth a lot more than what it was, the stocks spiked, it has since come back to earth, so yeah, to me this is like an opportunity to maybe take over the whole company to its stocks. There are stocks that the company has, at this point I'm not real sure what they want with the company at this point. It's all kind of mad to me. Dice wasn't even at HR Tech as far as I remember.
Chad: I didn't think they were. It's like if you would think that they would be anywhere, they would be at HR Tech. Or maybe they just want to separate themselves so much from the industry, they don't even want its money anymore.
Joel: Yeah. We need to talk to Art and get down with what's going on. Hopefully there is this same kind of openness and transparency that we found with Monster's new CEO.
Joel: Man, I'm tired. These late night shows are doing me in. Let's hear from Sovereign, maybe that sultry voiceover will wake me up and we'll talk Google and some Zip Recruiter. How does that sound?
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Joel: All right, I have a score update. We're starting the second quarter, Jets seven, Browns, zero.
Chad: Holy shit. Sam Darnold right there, I'm telling you.
Joel: It was a running touchdown by former Brown, Isaiah Cromwell, by the way. Wow.
Chad: All right.
Joel: Let's talk some Google.
Joel: It says, "Hire by Google" on the website. So I'm gonna do "Hire by Google" from now on. It was Google Hire, then it was Hire for Google, or whatever. So now it's Hire by Google.
Joel: So Hire is launching an android app. So this is where all you Android users like Chad get to rub it in our faces, the iOS user.
Joel: Though if you are a Hire user, Google has available in beta for development. I guess they haven't officially launched, but you could have Hire in your pocket. So anything you do with Hire now you obviously have to be a client to use it. But you can have that access in your pocket for Android users. I will say that what was interesting to me in this, two things I guess. One is, there aren't many ATSs that have native applications. Workable, Breezy HR, Smart Recruiters were a few of them that I saw in writing a story. So there's a real gap there and at this point Hire's actually an early adopter in terms of native applications.
Joel: And my second point is I think as recruiters get younger and younger, these mobile native experiences are what they want. And I think it simply strengthens Googles presence and grip on the lifestyle business and it also says that we're continually serious about this whole employment thing.
Chad: Yes. So first off, we talk about the whole app piece. So that means all the Apple users get the CareerBuilder augmented reality Pokemon for jobs app and Android users get the Google Hire App. I think we win that one. It's not my ... don't make the Apple users cry.
Joel: Had to do it.
Chad: So yeah. All I have to say is I remember when I said, and I got a call pretty quickly after I said this on a podcast, that it felt like hire was a 20% project. Remember?
Chad: And that wasn't ... that was really to challenge everybody over at Hire to really step their game up, and I'm gonna tell you, I don't think it had to do with us, but they have. It's not a 20% time project at all, bitches. This thing is rolling and this is one of the things that I believe, because if you think about it, from a commuting standpoint if you're on the train, or whatever you're doing and you're working, you don't want to have to pull out your laptop all the time, you just want to be able to pull out your phone and start scheduling interviews and those types of things. You can do that now with Google's ATS, with Google Hire. So all those applicant tracking systems that are out there who have old and weak-ass apps, this is a call to you. And all of you applicant tracking systems that have no app, get your shit together.
Joel: Including, from what I saw, iCIMS, so we're gonna go visit them soon. We're gonna have to bring up this whole ... you know.
Chad: They have an app. At least they do in the Google store, the Google Play store.
Yeah, the Google Play store.
Joel: Do they? I didn't ... you know. They could have it. My research was fairly light, as it always is.
Chad: Like your beer.
Joel: So if they do, I apologize. If they don't, yeah, we'll get to the bottom of it.
Chad: Okay. The next Google piece of news was Google Insights, Work Insights and it's pretty cool. It's Google analytics for work or it could be Google analytics for your lack of work. It's kinda like ...
Joel: Why are you looking at me when you say that?
Chad: Big Brother. I didn't have to look at you. Big Brother with these new analytics tools, because it actually shows how you're using the G Suite of products, if you're collaborating, if you're using them, I mean, all these different things. I see that it definitely would show workforce efficiencies, productivity, those types of things, and help better understand who is and who's not, but one thing that I was thinking about is that now Google, or Hire by Google, is part of G Suite.
Chad: So recruiters, you better get your shit together.
Joel: I mean to me, if you're a young person getting in the business, you've been using Google for how long? This is such a natural, organic sort of extension of your life. Google is just in such a great position right now in this sector and they're doing all the right things from what I can tell.
Chad: No question. They're starting to plug and consume all these different APIs coming from Cloud. Again, in the workforce space, it's gonna turn more into a business space, which is exactly what we need.
Joel: Yeah. Good job, Google. For the win. ZipRecruiter?
Chad: ZipRecruiter. Dropping paper, bitches.
Joel: This is funny. So we already know ZipRecruiter is everywhere.
Joel: You can't turn on a TV, you can't listen to a podcast or a radio show and not hear or see something from ZipRecruiter. This is even one notch up for them. Announced this week, if you're a podcast listener or even if you're not, you probably know about a podcast called Serial, and not what you eat in the morning but like murder and stuff.
Joel: One of the most popular pod ... the most popular podcast in the world, like 175 million downloads since it started a couple years ago.
Joel: In season three. ZipRecruiter is the presenting sponsor so they're on the site, they're at the beginning. Basically the whole show is just a ZipRecruiter show outside of the murder and stuff. They are launching ... they're launching like little stories about employers and how they use ZipRecruiter, like little mini stories with each episode. Probably dropped a lot of coin to do this. It's also a testament to the impact of podcasting, I guess. Good for them. But yeah, if you're sick of hearing ZipRecruiter, sorry, you're gonna have to deal with them a little bit longer.