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The Christmas Show

Ho-ho-Oh No! What should've been a laid back week has done blowed-up. Crowded goes through major ch-ch-changes in the C-suite...

And there's more under the tree kids...

- Uber autonomous is back on the street in Pittsburgh

- and we perpetuate Indeed's perpetuation.. Huh?

Grab an eggnog and enjoy our Christmas show, sponsored by Sovren, JobAdX and Canvas, as usual.


Disability Solutions partners with employers on disability inclusion initiatives to design scalable solutions to support strategic and operational goals in staffing, training, retention, compliance and engagement.

Announcer: Hide your kids lock the doors, you are listing to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, splash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel: We are in your ear drums but we don't watch you when you sleep. Welcome to the pre-Christmas week episode of the Chad and Cheese podcast, HR's most dangerous and totally loaded on eggnog right about now.

Chad: Oh yeah.

Joel: On this week's show, Crowded gets all shook up, Indeed says no, but ZipRecruiter says yes. And the pitchforks are coming out against self-driving cars. Put your feet up and throw some milk and cookies down your pie hole. We'll be right back after this message from Sovren.

Sovren: Sovren AI matching is the most sophisticated matching engine on the market because it acts just like a human. You decide exactly how our AI matching engine thinks about each individual transaction. It will find, rank and sort the best matches according to your criteria. Not only does it deliver the best matches, it tells you how and why it produce them and offers tips to improve the results. Our engine thinks like you, so you don't have to learn how to think like the engine. To learn more about Sovren AI matching, visit That's

Chad: Humans don't need to learn how to think like computers because they're not smart enough to think like computers. That's what it comes down to.

Joel: I just want to listen to our Christmas sound bite.

Chad: You just love the Christmas sound bite.

Joel: I love Christmas.

Chad: Any holiday where there is food and festivity involved, yes.

Joel: Yes and gifts.

Chad: No gifts.

Joel: Thanksgiving is great cause there is no gifts, there's no sort of all that effort of watching your wife wrap presents while you drink beer, cause you are often wrapping presents, but yeah. I love the holidays. Are you doing anything special?

Chad: Yeah. Going to enjoy some time. The kids are going to be a way for about a week or so. And then they are going to come back and we're going to do Christmas, New Year's and everything all balled up pretty much into one, so that should be fun. They are teenagers now so it's a little bit different, especially went off to college, she's back. We are getting close to being empty nesters which is going to be awesome.

Joel: I cannot say the same. My youngest has no idea what's going on, so that's neither here nor there. My nine year old still believes in Santa which is still precious. And my 12 year old is preteen angsty, who knows what's going on there. But yeah, I only get them on Christmas Day, isn't divorce fun. And then they leave me and then I get them back on New Year's, where we will be going to Canada and enjoying New Year's there. So yeah, good stuff.

Chad: Oh, Canada

Joel: Canada. Hopefully they'll let me back in.

Chad: We've got our Chad and Cheese Christmas party, holiday party, Hanukkah party, Kwanzaa party this weekend.

Joel: Christmas, Kwanzaa ... We'll have Chris Hanukkah-

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Basically it's about really good food and drink.

Chad: That's the way it should be.

Joel: That's what it is, yes. Yeah. We'll maybe live stream or maybe, who knows.

We'll post something, a little holiday message for the podcast. I don't know. We'll have fun

Chad: I've got an awesome sweater that I can't wait to wear. So, let's get this done.

Joel: Yeah, and I have some nauseous or enough anxiety medicine. Before I see that thing. All right, shout out, so what you got?

Chad: Ooh, first and foremost, I'd like to go ahead and thank Scott Gutz, CEO of Monster and Chris Cho head of product at Monster. Just did a really awesome interview with those guys and we just dropped it earlier this week, so if you haven't checked it out, you want to hear about the state of the union or the state of Monster, check it out. We didn't throw them any softballs. I mean, we threw them some pretty fast pitches in and they answered some questions, so it was good stuff.

Joel: State of the purple bugs bunny looking thingy, I believe is what we say, yes.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: From my words I think it's our best work to date on the interview side. You are not an iPhone guy but in iTunes it algorithmically shows podcasts that are the most popular, like most listened to et cetera. And the Monster interview is already in our most popular shows, so that's got to mean something, right.

Chad: Nice. Well, and this is really just a shot. Should be heard around the industry for any CEO that's out there, get on the podcast, be transparent. Yes, we're not going to ask you bullshit softball questions, but that's not what the people want. They want to hear the real shit. They want to hear what's going on and we are going to push you to answer those questions. So, get on the pod or over there at dice I see in the fetal position in the corner, get out of the fetal position buddy. Get on the podcast and let's talk. Let's make 2019 a kick ass year.

Joel: Tough but fair as my dad would always say. And by the way, my first shout out goes to my father who celebrates his birthday today. This will be published the day after, but yes, my dad is celebrating 79 years on this planet, half of which he's had to deal with me. So that counts for something. And we'll hopefully make 80 and many more birthdays after that. So, happy birthday coach Cheesman.

Chad: Yeah, he's got a lot left in him. He's got a lot left in him.

Joel: I agree. By the way, a double cancer survivor, prostate and colon. So they got mega ops for survival.

Chad: You can't beat that guy. It's all there is to it.

Joel: He's a cockroach.

Chad: Hence Joel Cheesman. Shout out to new listener [Greg Jim Bonko 00:06:48] I know you want to call him Jiambi but it's Jim Bonko. Thanks for listening man, a new listener now. Since you are a new listener, you have to understand that you've got to go out, get your peers, friends and family listing as well. This is our push to be able to make Chad and Cheese, again, the best or continue to make the best HR podcast out there.

Joel: And if not the best at least the most dangerous. Shout out to KFC, they had to make the list there somewhere. They have apparently released these starter logs.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Some people don't own fireplaces, so these starter logs you fire up and then the wood, sort of like, KFC has apparently released a starter log for your fireplace that smells

like fried chicken.

Chad: That's genius.

Joel: Yeah, it's like-

Chad: That's incredibly genius.

Joel: It's like indoor plumbing, the printing press and now the KFC starter log that smells like fried chicken.

Chad: Yes. This is amazing. If you do have a wood burning fireplace, you should be getting these for Christmas.

Joel: Agreed.

Chad: I'm going to say shout out to Google Home Assistant for the commercial rekindling Home Alone with Kevin McCallister. So it's got-

Joel: McCulkin.

Chad: Oh yeah it's got a today's, it's hilarious. It's got Caulay McCulkin, today's Caulay McCulkin. He's found himself home alone, he asks Google what's on his calendar for the day and then during the entire thing, I mean he's just telling, he's asking google to do things. Again, it rekindles the years where we've watched Home Alone over and over. And it is funny as hell. So big ups to Google for that one.

Joel: I love how he throws his back out when he's jumping on the bed. And by the way, you have to turn in your Gen X card for not knowing Macaulay Culkin, that's just awful. Macaulay McCallister, is that-

Chad: No, Kevin McCallister is his name in Home Alone.

Joel: Oh.

Chad: You've got to throw in your Gen X card for not knowing the character name.

Joel: No, no. Okay. All right. Anyway, that was a little funny side note. This is clearly one of the last shows of the year because we're getting ... TextRecruit shout out, we have this guy Eric Kostelnik, anyway, interviewed him for the show Kostelnik, I think that's right.

Chad: Kostelnik, yeah.

Joel: Interviewed him for the show, he has been a friend of the show for a long time, acquired by ICIMS. They sent out a tweet this week about getting their thousandth customer. So big ups to them for that.

Chad: I love in the interview with him, you couldn't say his name, he's like, "It's okay man. You've only known me for like three years."

Joel: Yeah. Well, people are still mispronouncing Cheesman so ... And Cheesman is much more straight forward than Kostelnik.

Chad: Yeah, to an extent. Yeah, I could say that. So I'd like to send a shout out to Boston Dynamics who just put a video out of Santa with their robot dog reindeers. And I just want to say stop it, Boston Dynamics, stop it. You've gone too far. You've made everything in our life creepy. You can't make Christmas creepy too.

Joel: The difference is my dog can't open the door, and-

Chad: That's what makes it so creepy.

Joel: Yeah, totally creepy. Last shout out is just ... Christmas man, take a break. I'm hoping to take an entire week break from Chad next week. We've prerecorded shows just so we don't have to listen and talk to each other for a week. I hope that everyone out there has a relaxing time, takes a break, enjoys family, friends or whatever it is you do. I know it's been a great year and I'm thankful for so much. Thank you Chad for a great year as well. I'm looking forward to 2019 and making many more shows.

Chad: Stop it man, you're making me tear up. My last shout out is for all those individuals who love the supreme ugly Chad and Cheese sweater. Thanks so much. Brett Healey tweets, it just can't get any uglier. Thanks Brett, that's exactly what we're going for. Jen Klimas. Rayanne Thorn, Steve Kraut, Roy Mauer, Tim Sackett, Michael O'Dell, Audra Knight, James Ellis and Teresa Reyes Bustamante and many more. I can't because there was so much action on this ugly sweater, thank you. You have made my holiday season.

Joel: Are you going to cut the sleeves off and wear it in the summertime, is what I want to know.

Chad: No, I've got to keep this thing around but I think there will be Chad and Cheese T-shirts happening in 2019, mark my words people.

Joel: Can we get to the news now?

Chad: Yes.

Joel: All right. Some of breaking stuff here, Crowded as in, as in former firing squad alum has some shakeups here recently. I was able to confirm through a conversation with Steve Levy who I know a lot of our audience knows, a recruiting veteran friend of ... many conferences and events around the industry. But he took a job at Crowded a while back. And I'll start off by saying that aside from the news, Steve is staying with Crowded, believed in the product and the people that are there. So his confidence means something but apparently people at the top, we don't know exactly who, how it would be the top of the top, and I think you have some word that he has been let go as part of that.

Joel: You have some sources on this story as well. But have either been fired or resigned. So there's some turmoil at the top that's going on. Mike Wiston who we know, head of sales, left the company towards the end of November I believe. Now according to him, it had nothing to do with any sort of chaos or scandal at the top. Which we have yet to confirm. Joe Rubin who is co-founder not confirmed that he's left yet but word is that it looks like he is focusing a little bit on his investment company. His LinkedIn profile has not been updated, Howie's has not been updated. Mike's has been updated, so we can still confirm that he is gone.

Joel: The company's about us page has all of those folks still with the company. There's been no public announcement from the company, but as soon as we get something more concrete we will report it. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast on iTunes, Google Play, wherever. That's where we shred some of this breaking news. So as we know more about the story, we'll be delivering that through the shred. So if you haven't opted in or subscribe to the show, make sure you do that so you get some of this hard hitting breaking stuff.

Chad: Right now. Do have to say that this is one of the products that was out there that I think conceptually was amazing. And when we were actually able to see some of the components, I mean it backed up the concept, being able to really leverage your applicant tracking system, candidate database, the hundreds of millions of dollars that companies spend in their databases, building these databases and then they stop using them. This product was really devised to keep that database fresh and make it easier to match up against requisitions that obviously we are a posting on a daily basis. So this is the type of technology that I believe moving forward it's ripe for organizations to be able to tap into. And hopefully Crowded will be around in 2019 and will stay strong.

Joel: Yeah, we definitely like the company and the people that were initially there. But you know, things happen. People are people.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: They do, shit happens. What are you going to do?

Chad: Shit happens.

Joel: It definitely happens. But yeah, updates are coming on this story as we speak. I just actually got a call, that was probably about that. So yeah, if you're not subscribed to the shred get that updates on this story and more are forthcoming.

Chad: Yeah. And if you don't know how to subscribe, it's pretty simple. Go to iTunes, look up the Chad and Cheese podcast, go to Google Play or Google Podcast, go to CastBox, whatever you use to listen to podcasts. If you don't listen to podcast, you are listening to a podcast, what the fuck. Go look for an App that makes sense for you and just look for Chad and Cheese, subscribe and you will get everything that we put out.

Joel: Not so late breaking, takes us to our next story. Tucker Carlson, who probably those in America know but a lot of people outside of the country may not know who Tucker Carlson is. He's a conservative talking head, I guess it would be the best way that I would describe him. He's on-

Chad: On Fox News. You got to say that.

Joel: He is a Fox News personality. He made some comments about immigrants, specifically that they are dirty. I think that was really, really bad to say. There are dirty.

Chad: They make our country dirtier and poor is what he said.

Joel: It was just a really bad stupid thing to say. He's actually doubled down on it and said, I stand on when I said. As a result of this, quite a few advertisers have said, we out from supporting the show. And Indeed announced pretty publicly that they were leaving their support for the show. However, another industry stalwart has said they're not, or at least have not come out and said we're leaving. And that would be-

Chad: ZipRecruiter.

Joel: ZipRecruiter. So yeah, I mean I'd be kind of surprised if they don't just ride the wave of getting off the show. When you work in employment and diversity is such a key to our success, it's really hard to be a company in the recruiting space and support sort of anti-Semitic stupid comments like that.

Chad: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. You know that companies like ZipRecruiter they've got ads everywhere, but it's incredibly important to be cognizant of what the hell is being said. And that's the kind of thing that you've got to watch. I mean, you really do, you have a dozen, at least at this point, a dozen other companies, big name companies who have said, okay, screw this I'm ejecting, I'm going home. Indeed being one of those companies very smartly. And then we saw on Twitter that Zip was still running ads. And I don't know if that's just because it was part of the normal flow and they weren't paying attention, but I think this is a shot over Zips, It's like guys, I know you're putting a lot of money out there but you've got to be cognizant of this shit.

Joel: Yeah, for sure. Especially in today's environment. Not walking back or getting away from this sort of environment, makes you look sort of tone deaf and can be very damaging. There is reasons why certain companies sponsor Howard Stern, certain content. And if you're going to support something like Fox News which is very opinionated and has personalities like this, you should kind of know what you're getting into. But maybe Tucker went too far for some advertisers, certainly for ones in our space. So I applaud Indeed, I think we both do. And we'll see what ZipRecruiter does. Maybe we'll reach out to them and see if they're going to pull back or not.

Chad: I don't believe, I don't think there's any question he went too far with. This has to do with just fear mongering to be quite frank.

Joel: Yeah. I mean, Fox gets a ton of viewers and so that becomes very enticing as an advertiser to get on board with that. But you just have to know what you're getting. And if your business is HR who touts diversity and inclusion and all those good things, that becomes really dangerous. If I'm selling snuggies or burgers, there's a lot less risk I guess of backlash. But certainly in our industry you got to be careful with who you're getting behind.

Chad: Yes. To say the least.

Joel: Next story, ERE media who a lot of our listeners will know. I'm a regular provider of outstanding content to EREs website, also presenting at their spring conference in San Diego. So, if you are going to be there, come by and say hi. But they acquired Talent42, which reminds me of the 80s group level 42. Do you remember them?

Chad: Yes. And something about you.

Joel: There is something about you, baby. Which I know many of our audience will know because the people who commented about your sweater are all about our age.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: I'm sure know this song. So anyway, talent 42 is a Seattle based conference sort of boutiquey nichey up to this point. Historically ERE and it's leader David Manaster have been really good about sort of finding those hidden gems in the industry and acquiring them. And this is just the next line to that. You and I talked earlier and we think it's the Forsyth newsletter that they acquired very early on. And acquiring SourceCon really early on as well, which has become one of the must see events for a lot of recruiters and certainly for sourcers out there. So, I applaud David for sort of being on the watch, on the hunt for some of these companies that are maybe under staffed or underutilized or underfunded and taking them and really making them something. So, Talent42 probably move beyond Seattle, probably go global, probably be something a lot bigger than they are today, but kudos to them.

Joel: I don't know exactly what it says about the conference business. It's a good thing that you are seeing some consolidation or not. And certainly when the economy goes south, how do these guys fair, I don't know. But for the near term, this looks like an interesting acquisition. And by the way, we don't talk about conference acquisitions very much. So this was newsworthy.

Chad: Yeah. Dave and crew over at ERE, they've been smart about content. We have said for years content is king and how you get it out there. And then there's the delivery mechanism of that content being, whether it's the ERE website or these conferences. So this is just another opportunity to have another vehicle, a very pointed vehicle for those types of individuals who go to that type of conference. I mean, what really distinguishes Talent42 again from some of the other ERE conferences?

Joel: I don't know the ins and outs of the deal. Maybe the people behind it were sort of ready to walk away from it or maybe they saw bigger opportunity, but were funded to the degree that ERE might be to take it to the next level, I don't know the specifics of it. But it's built up a nice little brand in the northwest, I don't know, but we'll be watching. Moving on to an ad from our boys at Canvas.

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Joel: So I have an update on Talent42.

Chad: Okay.

Joel: So looking at this story, it's primarily a tech recruiting event. So the need that it fills is being able to find and recruit tech talent. Certainly SourceCon helps with that but SourceCon is everything. So Talent42 is more tech focused. It is a national show. So yeah. So I think the niche it looks like it fills is tech recruiting.

Chad: That makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Joel: Well, there you go.

Chad: There you go. So that being said, as we roll into these next topics, we're just listening to Canvas and how they're talking about Canvas bot. Amazon and Walmart are adding more robots, believe that. So Fast Company had this pretty awesome article around Amazon and Walmart, because those two are really fighting each other, right. Amazon bought Warehouse Robotics Company Kiva Systems a few years back. And due to that, I'm going to quote on this one, "In fulfillment centers, they have drive units. We're able to store up to 40% more inventory and move custom orders in a faster more efficient way, faster deliveries, lower prices." So taking the friction, this is the people friction. This is the thing that we talked about with Peter Weddle in the Circa 2118 interview, taking the human friction out of the whole formula, right. 40% more inventory and faster deliveries, lower prices, boom, people suck.

Joel: People suck. Yeah, the problem and we talked about this in Circa 2118 with Weddle is somebody needs to buy the products that these robots are moving around and making.

Chad: Look at the market, how many jobs do we have versus people. So this is the perfect opportunity for you to move those people out because there are other jobs, right. And that's the whole kind of thought process around this.

Joel: Yeah. Now you are in this more than I am, but also that they're reconfirming or confirming that jobs aren't going to be lost because of this automation, you just call bullshit on that or?

Chad: That is total bullshit. So let's run through a few of these things real quick, especially just with Amazon. Cashier-less Amazon Go stores, where are the fucking people? The concept of drone deliveries, where the people, right. To be able to say that is a bold faced lie. Will there be jobs that are created from this? Yes. But I think, Peter Actually said in the book when you do your due diligence and you take a look at the actual numbers, six jobs lost per every one created, right. So yeah, it's going to create jobs but the deficit is five times that of what it's actually creating.

Chad: In 2020, Walmart automated carts will soon be shuttle components of online grocery orders from an attached warehouse to packaged up for human workers. So today, Julie when she shops, she goes online, she goes to Walmart does everything online. If you go into Walmart, you see these personal shoppers and they have these carts and they're going and they're doing the personal shopping, right. What's happening by 2020 is all those human beings are going to be gone. It's all going to be done by robots. That's another step Walmart is taking. And then they have robot truck unloading systems, autonomous floor cleaning systems that are deployed in 360 Walmarts by the end of January. Inventory tracking bots that can do a job in two and a half hours that it actually takes a human two weeks to do, that's stocking, checking merchandise, inventory.

Chad: And then, last but not least, there are these things called Walmart pickup towers that are going to be like in 700 different Walmart locations, where you do your online, this is beyond I think just that of groceries. But you do your Walmart shopping online. You walk in the store to this tower, you have a QR code that you scan or something and then it just brings your box up, you've already paid for it online, you take it and you get the hell out of dodge. I mean dude, you cannot tell me that this is going to create a shit ton of jobs.

Joel: That's all great but when I'm in the produce section I like to make sure my melons are firm.

Chad: I do agree with that. I do agree with that. I do like from melons.

Joel: I do like green lettuce and picking that strawberry that I really really want to eat. So there is something to be said for that.

Chad: And getting grapes instead of being delivered raisins.

Joel: And that. Now beer delivery, I think we're both behind. When a drone can deliver my PBR, it's a good day.

Chad: Well, and Domino's delivering pizzas. I mean and this self-bake car pizzas.

Joel: Yeah, the pizza that ... It's a self-driving truck. It takes orders online and it makes the pizza and then you go out and get it. You have a little code you got and it got like a hot pizza that's in this ever driving self like. To me that's genius and I'm waiting for that to happen. Pretty soon we'll never have to leave our house. I don't know if I'm looking toward to that day, but certain aspects of that I'm looking forward to. So we talked about the employee side of the automation question today.

Joel: Let's talk a little bit about recruiting. Unilever has a interesting story. They process a whole lot of applicants with AI. A story come out this week, Unilever processes 1.8 million job applications. Now Unilever is a big company, so I don't know exactly what percentage of that is, but my guess is it's still a lot. And they also recruit more than 30,000 people each year by partnering with Pymetrics. So they specialize in artificial intelligence in recruitment. The partnership has created an online platform for candidates to be assessed at home on their computer or a mobile device. They've eliminated 70,000 person hours of evaluation through this partnership.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Wow.

Chad: Dude. So the first step on this is while you're at home, they send you games to test your aptitude, logic, reasoning and appetite for risk. The whole algorithm goes into play and then it's used to assess the candidate suitability for whatever role they've applied for and then matches against different profiles. The second stage, and this is where it really gets creepy, is that you go into a video interview. And again, the assessor is not a human being, it's not a human being. So this is where the 70,000 person hours of interviewing and assessing candidates have been cut out. So that's pretty amazing to be able to look at how much time a recruiter actually spends, hiring manager, right, as sourcers, assessments, all that stuff, all that cutout, gone, done, taken over by these types of algorithms and systems.

Joel: I got a thing for 2019 will be the year that if you're not doing stuff like this, you are going to lose your job. If you are not implementing some of these things as a big corporation in particular, we're going to see this in mass and become ubiquitous and commonplace next year.

Chad: In this case, there is no black hole because all of, and I'm going to go ahead and quote, all of our applicants get a couple of pages of feedback, how they did in the game, how they did in the interviews, right. And what tech characteristics they have that fit. And if they don't fit, the reason why they don't fit, so they're giving them feedback, not going into a black hole. And this is all happening without human beings, right. Then it carries on to onboarding and engaging employees. They have a bot called Unibot that, it's all on the NLP Microsoft Bot framework that focuses on being able to just answer basic questions, provide documents and really do what HR and some of even IT, some of these different departments do on a daily basis. That's just really answering basic questions. They've rolled that out into 36 countries.

Joel: If you're an Svp of HR and your CEO hasn't come to you from looking at stories like this and said, what are we doing to automate our recruiting. You should probably expect that conversation to happen any day now.

Chad: If you have human beings, let's just go down for the basics first. If you have human beings posting jobs, if you have human beings scanning, actually sourcing candidates, right. Even these different engagement pieces from the ChatBot side of the house. If you're not looking at trying to get rid of all those tasks for your people so that they can really focus on being brand ambassadors. Joel is a hundred percent correct, CEO, CTO, who the hell knows, you're going to get a knock on the door and say, hey, why are we in the 1950s when all of our fucking competitors are getting to the talent so much faster than we are.

Joel: Exactly. And speaking of coming after, people are coming after self-driving cars in Phoenix. A story out of Fast Company.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Says that to date there's been 21 police reports filed by Waymo drivers. Now the Waymo drivers are people who just sit in the car basically and make sure that for safety measures that they work. But yeah, 21 cases of people attacking with pitchforks and fire and everything else, this poor Waymo cars. Now, I will say that I've lived in Phoenix and can tell you that it gets really hot in Phoenix and people get pretty testy and short tempered. So I don't know how much of that goes into this verse saying how much of it is just we hate self-driving cars. But one Waymo driver says they saw a 69 year old man waving a gun at their vehicle which fortunately the police apprehended before he can do too much damage. But yeah, what do you think about this backlash on self-driving cars that people are attacking them.

Chad: Yeah, I mean they are pretty much billboards. They say Waymo, they let you know that they're an autonomous vehicle and people are slashing tires, throwing rocks. I mean, this is could be, who knows, the start of the uprising when you start to see the robots starting to take over. There is also a piece in the article where an Uber driver, I believe it was an Uber driver was actually swerving toward these Waymo cars trying to drive them off the road and he was just screwing with them, but still, it's like, dude, that's going to take my job.

Joel: That's going to be a lot of it. It's going to be people fucking with these cars. There is going to be insurance claims of people who run in front of them to get hit and fall claim.

Chad: Oh yeah.

Joel: There is going to be people who are taxi drivers and Uber Drivers who see their livelihood at risk. And they are going to fuck with these cars. This is just like the drones where kids sit down with BB guns and like shoot it at drones, just for the hell of it. But yeah, I don't think it's as much as like an uprising against the trend of self-driving cars. I think it's just people being dumb asses and doing what people do.

Chad: Until they start seeing the actual jobs going away and then it'll switch.

Joel: Yeah, it could go bad. It could go south really fast. But for now, man, Phoenix might've been too hot of a place. You need to come to someplace a little more, they need to go to like Wisconsin or somewhere more amenable to stuff like this. Maybe at Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh has some nice cars, right.

Chad: Yeah Pittsburgh, actually Uber is getting back on the road. They had a fatality but they're getting back on the road and that's the first place that they're going back on the road, it's Pittsburgh.

Joel: Let's get a quick word from JobAdX and we'll talk about ghosts and ninjas and gurus.

JobAdX: With JobAdX's first birthday almost here, we are proud of all we've accomplished with advertising clients, publisher job sites, recruitment marketing agencies and staffing firms. Thank you for all the support and trust you've placed in us. Since 2017, JobAdX has used the best of consumer ad techs bidding and ad delivery to build an incredible programmatic job advertising exchange, and continue to rapidly grow our network of partners sites. We've also launched a feed inventory management platform called switchboard, effectively offering our dynamic technologies to all job board partners. And we've developed our revolutionary live alert which eliminate latency and an expired job ads via email. No more dead clicks or overages from job links whether open today, next month or next year. For more information about our solutions, please reach us at

Joel: So ghosting and weird job titles. I don't really care which one we tackle first because they're both so hard hitting. But what do you want to do?

Chad: I'd say the ghosting first. I think this-

Joel: Interesting.

Chad: We've been hearing a lot about this.

Joel: Ooh, well the big one now is there's no more two week notice apparently. People just say fuck it and leave.

Chad: Yes. That's what ghosting is. So just for our listening audience, what ghosting is, is when your employee just doesn't show up anymore, they quit but they don't even tell you that they quit. They're just done, right. So, this is from my understanding, because I haven't done this in a very long time, but it's very popular in the dating world, right. So you start dating somebody, it's like, oh, this is going well. It's like, nothing, radio silence on the other end. They totally ghosted you, right. They are starting to bring that behavior to the workplace.

Joel: Yeah. And it doesn't exclude ... It's not just the work, the employees, it's the interview process as well. I mean people will have talked to someone, bring them in for an interview, they like the candidate, et cetera. And people just don't even show up. And they don't tell them I'm not showing up, they just don't show up. And we've heard about first day on the job where they just don't show up. They don't even time to hate their boss, hate the company or hate anything about it, they just don't even show up on day one.

Chad: Yeah. Well, it's the market that we're in right now, right. And I believe, and this is just kind of my thought processes, is these individuals believe, hey, what's good for the goose is good for the fucking gander, right. When I go in and I do interviews and you don't get back to me and I go into a black hole, you're ghosting me, right. You are ghosting me, when I put my resume in and I don't get anything back, you are ghosting me. So why is that behavior okay but my behavior is not okay. So I don't think two wrongs make a right in this case. And the reason why this is happening is because of the job market. There are so many jobs that are out there that it's like, yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and hop from this job to that job, screw you, I'm going home. In some cases, but like you had said, there are some that don't even show up for day one, that's because they have multiple offers.

Chad: The job market is making this happen. The problem is, when you're so weak that you can't look that individual on the eye and you run and play the run and hide game. You are burning bridges and there is a long term impact for this, especially when the worm starts to turn on the job market.

Joel: Yeah. Eventually you'll need jobs. And if you've done a good job of burning bridges and pissing people off and embarrassing maybe people who tatted you up, that you were coming in and you made them look bad, what goes around comes around, which is another thing my dad used to tell me. This is a perfect example of that, that this will come back to bite you in the ass potentially. To me this is a whole culture of like breaking up through text used to be a thing. You don't even have the balls to call the person up or see them face to face or whatever. You just text them and then you are gone. And this whole culture of I don't need to take responsibility. I don't need to do the tough things in life. I don't have to do the right thing, is pretty unhealthy. And that's unfortunate that it's kind of in the work workplace. But it is the reality that we live in.

Chad: It's weak people.

Joel: It is weak. And I hope that I instill in my kids not to do this kind of shit.

Chad: Yeah, no question. And still, I want to impress upon talent acquisition as you are listening to me, they are doing the exact goddamn thing to you that you do to them when you push them into a black hole and you don't give them any type of response or feedback whatsoever. So yes, this is bad. I agree 100%. This is bullshit. But you do the goddamn same thing every day, fix yourself. That's the big key here, fix yourself. Hopefully these idiots will understand and start to fix themselves, but you can't fix them, right. You can fix you. So quit this black hole bullshit.

Joel: You're saying that they did, they fail to check themselves. So now they're wrecking themselves.

Chad: Therefore they wreck themselves, yes. That's where I was going, very nice. I like that.

Joel: Yeah, you like that. All right, well let's talk about weird job titles and then this miserable excuse for a podcast. So Indeed, all these companies have a lot of data usually put out these little fun facts about titles and whatever. So, one of things I thought we'd bring up is Indeed publishes their sort of weird job titles review and then they don't just tell you what are the most popular ones but they actually track which ones are rising and falling, et cetera. So they've highlighted seven terms that are used in job postings that are really pretty stupid, ninja, rock star, genius, guru, hero, my favorite wizard and superhero.

Joel: So these are terms that people use. Now, what I thought was interesting is we have two that are like growing exponentially over the other ones. And that would be a ninja and rockstar. One that is spiking up is genius for whatever reason. Now, Apple calls their people geniuses so I'm not sure they're including them or not. What are your thoughts on using these sort of pop culture silly terms for professional opportunities.

Chad: First a message to Indeed, you are perpetuating stupidity by putting this kind of stupid intel out. This is fucking stupid. There's no reason to be ... Oh yeah, this is fun. No, this isn't fun because then you get idiots. Let's take a look at ninja, right. So, I'm somebody who is in California and I see, oh, the number one rank is in my state. We should start using ninja more. No, you're perpetuating stupidity, okay. Ninja, rock star, I mean, are these video game players or are they actually doing a fucking job.

Chad: So from my standpoint, this is the dumbest thing in the world. People, yeah, it's funny, but it's not funny. This is real world shit. You go and you see job descriptions that say ninja on them, that say obviously that's a rock star and genius. I mean, come on guys, what the fuck.

Joel: All right, number one, full disclosure you are still mad at them that you think they stole your sweater, Christmas sweater idea.

Chad: And they didn't do it as well as I did.

Joel: So you are already pissed at Indeed this week. Number two, this is not stupid, this is great marketing because we're talking about it and people are going to click on it and people are going to link to it and people are going to share it on social media-

Chad: So we are perpetuating [crosstalk 00:44:04]

Joel: This is great, yeah, is it good for society? No.but is it good for going to Indeed and then saying what this is about like, hell yeah.

Chad: Indeed, stop doing this because we are perpetuating your perpetuation and this is just ... Obviously we are dumb as well.

Joel: Indeed is just the Messenger. They're not forcing people to put ninja and wizard in their job titles. People are stupid, Indeed is just reporting the data.

Chad: Which is why humans are going to be taken over by robots because they know better.

Joel: Which by the way, because Indeed doesn't play with Google for jobs. Their jobs aren't getting seen any more. So they have to put out content like this so people will still go to Indeed and hopefully they'll look for a job while they are there.

Chad: And I will leave it at that, Indeed you're putting out stupid shit because you're not even doing the Google for jobs thing [crosstalk 00:44:59]

Joel: Happy Christmas everybody.

Chad: Happy holidays. We out.

Cole: I'm Cole Cheesman so my dad can easily remember who I am. Thanks for listening to my dad and his follically challenged friend Chad. Make sure you subscribe to this show on iTunes, Google, eight track cassette tapes or wherever you enjoy podcast. Be sure to support our sponsors because if you don't I angry feel like when I'm angry.

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