The end of January is supposed to be boring. Nay, say Chad & Cheese.
The boys dig into:
- We don't need no stinkin' surveys - only the data ma'am
- Chad finally sees Indeed's assault on staffing agencies
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Announcer: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for The Chad & Cheese Podcast.
Joel: I got your polar vortex right here, mother nature. Welcome to The Chad & Cheese Podcast, HR's most dangerous. I'm Joel Cheesman.
Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash.
Joel: On this week's show, we pull some anti-ghosting magic out of our hat, we learn why Indeed gave the AA staffing industry a big FU, and we get a little contact high from the growing pot jobs industry. Smoke up Johnny. We'll be right back after a word from Sovern.
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Chad: Hopefully be seeing those guys sometime soon, right?
Joel: Yeah, we're headed to Austin. We'll see if they got any more vodka or bourbon from HR Tech still around.
Joel: We were taking some of that. Yeah, I think it was bourbon. It was bourbon.
Joel: Well, dude, happy Super Bowl weekend.
Chad: No shit, right? It's here.
Joel: Yeah, I tried to do a little, a New York accent at the beginning, but it sounded a little bit more New England maybe because there's been so many Bostonians on TV lately.
Joel: They're gonna win, though.
Chad: I don't know that, yeah.
Joel: Quick prediction? I'm gonna go New England 35, LA 31.
Chad: I'm gonna go LA 28, New England 14.
Joel: Only 14 points.
Chad: Yeah, LA had one hell of a defense this year, and I think they're gonna lock it down, and they can. If they can lock down those receivers, not to mention they have a hell of a pass rush.
Joel: Well, for the sake of the viewing audience, I hope it's not just 28-14. I hope it's a little more high scoring than that.
Chad: It can still be a good game.
Joel: Oh, sure. But these aren't massive defenses. If New England's not scoring much, it's because they're sucking. It's not because they're playing the 2000 Ravens or the 75 Steelers.
Chad: The Rams had a good defense this year. They had a very good defense this year. Take a look at their line, what is it, Donaldson? Take a look at their backs, man.
Joel: And Suh. A boy called Suh.
Chad: Those guys, they're legit. I'm waiting for the AFC to finally fucking put together some teams in the late season who don't just fucking fold like cheap card tables.
Joel: Well, thank god we have the Browns then, who are destined for Super Bowl greatness.
Chad: Once again.
Joel: Interestingly, I haven't heard a lot about the commercials this year.
Chad: I know it's gonna be incredibly expensive to get a fucking, it always is, but it goes up every year. So we'll see. We'll see who actually has the cash to play in this game.
Joel: We'll see, and we'll probably discuss it on next week's show.
Chad: More than likely.
Joel: Now, for the non-sports fans, they'll be happy to know that we're gonna tighten up our shout outs a little bit, so we're limiting it to people, exceptional people, not just anyone, events, and maybe like really special items for the show. Okay, so we're tightening up. I'm gonna start with Adam Gordon, candidateid.com or candidate.id, whichever one. Go check him out. The crazy Scotchman, Scotsman, that we love so much did a Braveheart inspired death match video taunting us. I shoot fire out of my ass or lightening out of my ass, and you shoot fire out of your eyes or something.
Joel: But it was very well done. Love Adam, can't wait to see him in Lisbon on the death match stage.
Chad: Yes, and I have to say that TNG and the 10 guy creepy ass robot is the one who actually started this, so their video acceptance pushed Adam. But yeah, you can check it out. You can go to chadcheese.com, click on podcasts and video or death match, whatever, and they're gonna be right there. Check them out. They're funny as hell.
Joel: They must not have as much of a litigious society there in Scotland, because I would be scared to death to do a parody of Braveheart by risk of getting sued by everyone in Hollywood. But hey Adam, good for you man. Stick it to the movie studios.
Chad: I would've thought you would've started out with the Joel throat punch.
Joel: I don't know, to me that feels like the fourth hitter. That seems like the clean up to me, but yeah, if you want to bring that up, go ahead.
Chad: Yeah, so you had a post on LinkedIn that kind of, I would say, exploded to an effect. You posted, "If you ever hear me say," and I quote, "I need to story this," end quote, "Permission to punch me in the throat." So apparently, people don't have a problem, and as a matter of fact, they're kind of overjoyed at the thought of punching you in the throat.
Joel: Yeah, there's a number machine in the corner of my office here, if you want to take a number. Apparently, there's a lot of energy around punching me in the throat. Now, I will say that the odds of me saying, in public, "I need to story this," or "I want to story this," is pretty low, and it was driven by either millennial or a Gen Z are saying it. Similar to like, "I need to tweet this," or "I'm gonna Facebook this." So this is the whole story phenomenon of stories on Snapchat and Instagram. "I need to story this." So I hope to god I never say it. If I do, carte blanche to punch me in the throat.
Chad: Just so that you know, we do have this already set up as an event. It's gonna be a sponsored event by JobAdX. We already have t-shirts being designed, throat punch Joel t-shirts, those types of things. So when it does happen because it'll happen, we will have an event pulled together to make sure that everybody can enjoy the Joel throat punching.
Joel: Multiple video sponsors have lined up to video record this and push it out there. Now, to underscore the idiocy of mankind, my throat punch post has received almost 15,000 views from the comments, and people talk a lot about, why don't you write or talk about more thoughtful, intellectual pieces? The point is, we give the people what they want, and apparently, they want throat punches and Braveheart videos and everything else. So if you don't like our content, blame it on humanity, because we're just giving the people what they want.
Chad: That's right. Ed from Philly, he loves what we're saying, because he really liked the Weekend at Bernie's comment about Wilbur Ross].
Joel: That was pretty good.
Chad: Ang over at JobElephant's officially sent us a strongly worded letter and took exception to your job site farming comment, because JobElephant's obviously is their product. He took exception to that.
Joel: Yeah, so those that didn't listen, Textkernel being acquired by CareerBuilder, I think Textkernel's an awful name.
Joel: It reminds me of farming and corn kernels, and the whole animal thing is played. So JobElephant, what I got for you is ... a big elephant gun.
Chad: Oh, god. Killing it. Okay, so Toby Culshaw-
Joel: Loves us.
Chad: Well, and he's created a TA podcast list for TA professionals, so if you're out there, you're a TA professional, maybe you're a vendor in this space and you want to listen to a top notch podcast, obviously you're already listening to one. He's actually created a list for this, so check it out. It's on LinkedIn, Toby Culshaw, C-U-L shaw, and there you go.
Joel: I don't think they were numbered, but we're clearly number one if he had numbered that list, I think. Canada, here we come, eh?
Joel: The event's February 19 through the 22-ish.
Chad: It's gonna be awesome.
Joel: We're gonna be in Banff near Calgary, Canada. More CEOs than we can shake a stick at, more thought leaders. I'm not sure how they let us into the event, but sure enough, we're gonna be there and aspire to interview a lot of people and get a lot of content for everybody.
Chad: So this is a cult branding event, names like Yeti, LA Lakers, Marvel Comics, Cheetos-
Chad: Yeah, Cinnabon.
Joel: Cinnabon, Cheetos, yeah.
Chad: Converse, M&Ms, Porsche-
Chad: I mean, dude.
Chad: This is like the brand event of the year, so we're pretty fucking stoked, not to mention after that, there is a concert event, which I'm going to go to as well. So it should be
Joel: It feels like Davos meets South By Southwest for Canada, is basically what we're going to.
Chad: They let us meatheads in.
Chad: Soon, you will be able to check out the new Chad Cheese first limited edition Chad Cheese t-shirt-
Chad: Original design.
Chad: Exclusive, what else do we want to put on it?
Joel: Earth shattering, orgasmic-
Chad: We're gonna have three or four different designs you can vote on. This is all sponsored by our friends at Emissary.ai. They are going to be promoting, they're the sponsor of this first, limited edition Chad and Cheese shirt, which we're going to be giving away at events this year.
Joel: We're excited.
Joel: You're excited. This is your baby, man. You've been talking about a t-shirt sponsorship for a long time, and I have poo pooed it since you started, so I'm giving you full credit. If this thing takes off, Chad is the guy behind it.
Chad: First and foremost, you get throat punched for saying "poo pooed", and second, it's gonna take off. People love fucking t-shirts and Chad and Cheese t-shirt. Give me a break. Come on.
Joel: Especially when they're limited and orgasmic.
Chad: Oh yeah.
Joel: People love those kinds of t-shirts.
Chad: That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
Joel: Holy shit. Are we done with shout outs?
Chad: One more, Mark Feffer is providing us with sound effects. I'm working with Mark on another project. I thought, fuck it. I'm gonna pull in some of these sound effects for Chad & Cheese too. He'll love it, so go ahead and play one.
Joel: Did we get a signature to do this? Are we gonna have to pay him every time we use "asshole" on the show?
Chad: No, don't even put that out there in the universe for god's sakes. Now we're gonna have to think about it. I'm working with him. He writes all the content for HCMtechreport.com, and we're doing some podcasting roundups and whatnot. We're trying to liven some of the stuff up, so I thought you'd just kinda cross-pollinate some of the stuff that we're using over there and it'd be fun.
Feffer: Asshole. Asshole. Asshole.
Joel: Now everybody's gonna want sound bites on the show, nice.
Chad: Yeah, well, and that is awesome. We should do that. Where's my Ed from Philly fucking sound bite?
Joel: Yeah, you gotta have some Philly. What would Ed say?
Chad: I don't know. We need a sound bite.
Joel: All right. All right, Ed. Through the guns. All right, George Larocque is starting off the show. Dude did a poll. He has larocqueinc.com is his blog. Larocque, L-A-R-O-C-Q-U-E inc.com.
Chad: Larocque, yeah.
Joel: I'm guessing that's French. Larocque.
Chad: Le ROCK.
Joel: Something. So the title is Everything on the Internet Starts with Google. Sure, but what about online job search? They say no. You have a few comments about the results. I have a little bit of a commentary about the sample size, but essentially, it's a big hand stroke to Indeed, which lands number one. Although I'm a little, I'm confused, because the headline is basically like, Google sucks, but Google is number two in terms of search site used. Where does this job search start? Google's number two, and they're like five or six points behind Indeed, and then you go down to LinkedIn, Monster, ZipRecruiter, Glassdoor, et cetera.
Joel: So what are your thoughts about the results? I don't think this is a huge blow to Google, but the headline would say otherwise.
Chad: Yeah, I take issue mainly in the methodology. So it was a survey. I think it's cute when you're asking dumb humans where they start anything, because they can't fucking remember. Seriously. It doesn't look like the survey is any better, has any better information than the ATS drop down question. Where did you find this job, right?
Joel: Yeah, and there are a certain number of people, and let's agree that Indeed still has some nice search rankings on a lot of things. People are still going to Google and then going to Indeed and then finding the job from there or applying through that. So you really get into some confusing issues of, do they really remember, or what exactly is the process by which they're telling you what they're going for?
Joel: This is why analytics exist, right? So you put a piece of code on websites, and you don't leave it up to human beings. You leave it up to what actually happens, which obviously wasn't what this survey gauged as far as I know. In fact, my big problem with it is that they surveyed a whopping, in the job search area, 540 individuals. If this was 540 employers, I'd say, home run. That's a great sample size, because it's hard to get employers to answer anything. But dude, 540 job seekers is not a ton of people.
Joel: I think the rule of thumb, and I'm not a survey expert, but I think the rule of thumb is you look at the potential universe, and then getting as close to 10% of that as possible. So at 10%, 500 would be 5,000.
Chad: Not even close.
Joel: So a lot more than 5,000 job seekers in the country, so I would've loved to have seen a lot larger sample size. George could've partnered with any job board of significance on the planet and emailed a number of their people, or he could've just put an ad on Facebook and target people. There are probably different ways that he could get a lot of people to answer this question, but 540 is a fairly small sample size. I wouldn't put the gospel around what the results were.
Chad: I don't want fucking human beings answering anything.
Joel: Well, that's never gonna happen.
Chad: We have data. We have fucking data, okay? So it's funny, because this kind of string blew up on social, and there were a few people that were saying, "Oh, that's a fine sample size," and I thought, you know what? It's pretty fucking simple. You can aggregate, many of the people who are in this conversation can actually aggregate the data from their clients, and they can come out with a real number, right? Because this, I don't think is a real number. It's a human survey. Who gives a fuck, right? Give me data. This is not data. This is the problem that I see within our industry today. We are focused too much on noise instead of the actual fucking data, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about this.
Chad: This survey, quit doing fucking surveys like this. Stop it. Give me fucking data. Don't do stupid surveys when you can get data that will actually give us concrete information.
Joel: So I guess you don't have a SurveyMonkey subscription then, right?
Chad: So for SurveyMonkey, I mean, SurveyMonkey can be used for many different things, right? You can ask, but not this. You should be able to find data that supports this.
Joel: So for the record, if a company wants to survey the employees about where they want to go for dinner on Christmas or the holidays, you're okay with that.
Joel: Just not big, kind of topic stuff. Or if you want to survey someone about their interview or their exits, that's okay. You're not totally anti-survey.
Joel: Just with stuff like this, you want just hard data.
Chad: If there is hard data, right? Unless you're polling all of the Yelp information from all your employees or Google reviews for restaurants and whatnot. If you have that data, fucking A. Big brother, have at it, plan your party. In most cases, you don't. In this case, you can get the fucking data. If you don't have the data, then guess what? Don't fucking talk about it.
Joel: Because we're getting ready to survey our listeners for their favorite t-shirt, so I just want to make sure that when we do that, they can't come back and say, "We did the survey and you guys hate surveys." Some surveys are okay, just for the record.
Chad: Can we actually pull data together that will tell us which t-shirt our listeners like before we actually put those out there? No, we don't. If we had it, we wouldn't be asking the fucking humans, right? But we don't, so we're gonna poll them.
Joel: Fair enough, man. We like George. Let's put that out there.
Chad: Love George.
Joel: Love George. We've interviewed him. Hopefully he'll come back on the show at some point.
Chad: He will.
Joel: Maybe we'll talk about this survey and he can tell us how we're full of shit and how it's an awesome data set.
Chad: Well, there's a couple of things. We could ask him onto the show and we could talk about this. We could also ask the Shane Grays of the world who have companies like Clinch who actually aggregate this data, so it wouldn't just be like a certain client, and could prospectively give us data points on what they're seeing through a litany of different companies, right? That, to me, is a better conversation.
Joel: Yeah, and we're interviewing ICIMS about a whole bunch of data here this month, I believe, and maybe we'll talk about what sources are driving the most traffic to their customers. I think that's a much better data point than asking people.
Joel: I agree. I agree. All right, man, let's move on to Indeed, and you found this story. What's up?
Chad: No, actually, one of our listeners hit me up on LinkedIn messenger and really said, "Hey, have you seen a big movement with Indeed hire?" I was like, "No, why?" He's like, "Man, they're calling us left and right." So they're seeing more of a sales push, not to mention he gave me a link to the website which has a video that focuses obviously on the product. It just seems like it's more polished than I've ever seen it before, and that's where I thought it was interesting and it would bring up the interesting discussion around, as you had said before, that you really believe that Indeed is going after the staffing industry and this in itself could be evidence.
Joel: Which, I wish we had a sound guy in a booth, but we're just two idiots at desks. I'm pretty sure there's a sound bite somewhere where you think, I'm full of shit thinking that Indeed is getting into staffing. They're getting into staffing.
Joel: The video, Google, Indeed Hire. Google Hire. Indeed Hire, they screwed the staffing industry a few weeks ago, kicked them off the site unless they're paying. This is why. They're getting into staffing, and they're getting serious because these videos, the site, it's just very well made. This is where they're going. They're gonna compete with staffing companies for sure.
Chad: What I said was, I don't see them going against the Adeccos or the Randstads of the world. They were already in staffing. Do I think that they're going to be a behemoth and, no, I don't. Are they gonna try? Fuck, they just might. I think this is interesting though because back in the day for Monster and CareerBuilder, dude, they were taking their bucks as they were killing them, right? They were taking their dollars. They were sending them traffic as they were slowly bleeding them and killing them, but they just kicked staffing off. We've talked about it before. Some staffing companies are actually spending more money because of that, so-
Chad: Maybe this is part of the grand plan. We're going to get more money out of staffing, and this is how we're going to bleed staffing by kicking them off, because they're already hooked on the crack, and then guess what? We're gonna take their business from them.
Joel: I'm clapping because yes, you have encapsulated the whole strategy, and it's a repeat from what they did to job boards. Kick them off, get them to pay, and then slowly bleed them with their own product. Boom, rinse and repeat.
Chad: It's worked before. The thing is, I don't know that it'll work on the big ones that are out there, right? The ones who have enormous databases as it is.
Joel: To me, it's clearly sold as a, if you don't have the infrastructure currently to place people or find people, we will do that for you. But yes, the large enterprise, folks, I don't know. But this is a clear strike against the staffing industry.
Chad: How do you think this is going to impact Europe? Because they're so, I mean, obviously the staffing companies in Europe, that's a part of a company's DNA.
Joel: Sure. Well, we've been wondering the buildup in Ireland, the buildup in the UK, whether that's with real estate or people. Maybe this is a big part of it. Let's really take on staffing in a big way, and Europe could be ripe for that.
Chad: Could be. Could be, could be. Look out Europe, here comes Indeed.
Joel: Look out, yeah. If you've used the Indeed Hire product, like it, love it, hate it, whatever, hit us up at chadcheese.com. We'd love to hear your take on the product.
Chad: You know it.
Joel: And speaking of products that we know are awesome, let's hear from
JobAdX. This is their new ad.
Joel: I feel like a DJ or a VJ announcing the new Thriller video. Here's the new one from JobAdX, boys and girls.
JobAdX: This is sound of job search. ... This is the sound of job search defeat. ... Job search can be frustrating. Job seekers run into the same irrelevant ads, page after page before they find a match. When job seekers aren't engaged, conversions are low. Budgets are wasted. Jobs go unfilled. No one wins. But job search doesn't have to be defeating. JobAdX's smart search exchange references 400 data points to select the most target jobs and delivers what job seekers really want to premium ad units across our network.
JobAdX: Score! That's the sound of JobAdX's relevant results attracting a qualified candidates and filling your job faster. Find out how to improve your job advertising campaigns and increase candidate attraction and engagement by emailing us at ... Join us at jobadx.com. JobAdX. Together, we can save job search.
Chad: Save it.
Joel: I'm in a really good mood after that background soundtrack. I feel like it's from the Brady Bunch or some sort of 70s or 80s sitcom. I like it. I like it.
Chad: They were happy the entire time. Yes, I love it.
Joel: Yeah. Much improved, JobAdX. Way to go. Shout out to Isabelle, who we know is sort of doing the marketing there now.
Chad: Nice. Nice.
Joel: At the company. So a topic we never discuss, automation. There's a ton of stuff out there. What do you want to start with?
Chad: Let's start with the Brookings Institute report.
Chad: Talking about the jobs that are going to go away. Where they're at, all that other happy horseshit, and it's pretty simple that many of these jobs, like food prep, production operations like manufacturing, office administration support, farming. This kind of blew my mind. Farming, fishing, and forestry, transportation, construction, and extraction. Those were all above 50%, so they had this index. Food prep was like 81%, so as you go into your McDonald's today and you start to see these boards that you're doing kind of these touch boards where you're ordering your food now, and then you just go to the front and the food's waiting for you there. That's kind of like another step on the food prep piece.
Chad: Then we also saw, god, it was a robot called Flippy. It was in California, right? And it would flip the burgers. It would get the burgers right, put it on the bun, have a full burger done for you the way that you ordered it, and a person didn't touch it until they delivered it.
Joel: What I find interesting was sort of demographically where, the types of folks that are gonna be impacted the most, and the Brookings Institute study really targeted men, young folks, and minorities for a variety of reasons. I also found it interesting that the rust belt would be particularly harder hit, because a lot of the jobs are boring, repetitive stuff, right? It's-
Joel: Yeah, so it's no mistake that our politics, in large part, are being driven by fear, and there's a ton of fear employment wise. Am I gonna have a job? Particularly in the Midwest and the rust belt where folks are getting displaced by robots, and there's a real fear there of what's going on. What I'm finding is we did the Walmart story last week about Walmart needing drivers. So I kind of went a little bit of maybe we're getting too ahead of ourselves with the whole automation thing, and then this week sort of slapped me in the face, saying like no. We're actually not.
Joel: Amazon employs over 100,000 robots in its warehouses, and they employ 125,000 humans. So that gives you an idea of it's almost 50/50 at some place like Amazon. We'll talk about self-driving cars, et cetera. So for me, it's