Let's just come out firing:
- LinkedIn's consolidates and increases prices
- Google's bag o' bricks and....
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors! You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast!
Joel: It's the home improvement, red eye episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast. HR's grumpiest and saltiest, I'm Joel Cheesman.
Chad: And I'm Chad Get Off My Lawn Sowash.
Joel: On this week's show, LinkedIn is raising, ISMS Callin is unloading, and we end the Podcast with a facial. Grab a washcloth and get comfortable, we'll be right back after this word from Canvas.
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Ed: This is Ed from Philly, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast.
Chad: Damn straight.
Joel: I'm in a mood this week so ...
Chad: You're always in a mood.
Joel: I always on a red eye, I haven't slept, I've got handymen in my house, I've got water draining in all the wrong places. And yeah, I'm in a mood, so be warned everybody. Anything could come out of my mouth this week.
Chad: Suck it up, buttercup. Let's do this.
Joel: By the way, I think we've got an explicit rating without actually cussing or doing anything bad just from the opening that we did there. Anyway, let's get to shout outs. You've got a ton apparently.
Chad: Yeah, let me run through a few real quick. Dave and Joann for sending me some delicious flammable material IPA. That's right, I keep getting beer in the mail and I love it.
Joel: So this is gonna be fun for me because I came home to a FedEx with beer in it.
Chad: Damn it!
Joel: So, you are not the only one ...
Chad: Damn it!
Joel: To get the love so ...
Joel: So in your face, suckah, in your face!
Chad: Damn it! Okay, so I'm gonna revive with a thanks to ... Shout out to new listener from South Africa, Lindi Endlebrecht. Hello, Lindi. Get all your South African friends to be listening to the Chad and Cheese. I think we've got a double shout out for Tim Meehan. Why don't you go ahead and start yours?
Joel: Yeah, Meehan's got quite the sense of humor. He's sort of equal parts complimentary and equal parts just total dis.
Chad: Which I love.
Joel: He said, Indeed should worry about the bots and not so much about ZipRecruiter, which I kind of tend to agree. Everyone should worry about the bots. I don't think Zip is on top of mine for Indeed as much as Google is, but Tim, I appreciate the sentiment and agree with most of your comment.
Chad: Yeah, I would say that there's no question that Indeed is worrying about Zip. If you take a look at the new App Cast rankings that came out, if they're not, they should, but Tim also said, he wants to know what the benchmark is to get a T-Shirt, because it shouldn't be very hard since we only have about five subscribers. Well, done, Tim. Well done.
Joel: And that's including family, Tim. So thanks, man. I appreciate that. You can't leave people hanging, you can't leave people hanging on the App Cast thing without a little bit of color on that.
Chad: Yeah, well, there's actually a shred that's out there that will be out there by the time we publish this. So if you haven't subscribed to Chad and Cheese, the only way that you're gonna get a shred, is to be able to subscribe, and it's only gonna be like a three to five minute podcast, so that's how you're gonna get some in depth information about App Cast is subscribe. It'll be there and you're welcome.
Joel: And that's what we call a tease in the podcast business.
Chad: That's right, bitches! Duarte Mendonca, thanks for listening and commenting on our stuff. He's always engaged. Love that guy. Dave Pheobus, he loves Aldo Nova, 80s Rock Road Trips, so he loved the show believe it or not.
Joel: There's no need to restate the obvious. Who doesn't love Aldo Nova?
Chad: Life is just a fantasy. Lauren, Kyle, and Adam, and the rest of the crew at Higher Allergies for having us in. We're also going to drop another pod later, probably next week or something like that where we are actually guests on a podcast. So we're gonna republish it and it was pretty good stuff. Yeah, it was good stuff.
Joel: It was good stuff. I'm gonna give a shout out to ERE where I was this week. Gave a little talk on Google for jobs. And actually had two podcast fans come up and want a selfie with me. So, that was my little taste of I don't know Justin Bieberland over in San Diego this week. So thanks to them. I will dig out my business cards and find out who those ladies were.
Chad: Yeah, from now on you need to take a Chad Cutout with you just in case, and I'll do the same when I'm traveling without you. I'll obviously need an entirely new suitcase for that.
Joel: Nice, nice.
Chad: Chad and Cheese T-Shirts selfies aplenty. So shout out to all those individuals that are out there doing the Chad and Cheese selfies when they get the T-Shirts and that also reminds me of Ryan Christoi over at KRT, you owe us a selfie. The funniest thus far though is Louise Triance over in the UK saying that I spelled her name wrong on the T-Shirt. Chad and Louise. Get it?
Joel: I get it, yeah. And you can't spell Cheese without Louise or something. Shout out to Terry Baker our boy at Pando Logic for sportin' for tickets to a pod race game when I was in San Diego this week and met his son Pete who's a very nice guy as well.
Joel: So lastly, the Whisky House in San Diego. Holy shit, dude.
Joel: If you love whisky this place was like a library of booze, complete with the ladder to get stuff on the third, fourth, and fifth shelf. The most random hard to get whisky you could think of. So shout out to them and the fact that someplace like that exists is a very, very good thing.
Chad: You were sending me pics the entire fucking time and I was drooling. A couple of things, so pods to lookout for. Mike Tempkin from Shaker, he's a fucking industry treasure. Somebody that we're gonna be pushing out within the next week or so, Nathan Porot from AIA, we're gonna be talking about the rep tech hype cycle and last but not least we have events. Next week we're at Talroo.
Joel: Ye be poo without Talroo.
Chad: For an invitation only event where we will be unplugged. If you're not there, sorry about that.
Chad: TAtech Europe, Death Match. That is going to be fucking outstanding. Dude, TAtech Death Match. We've got Candidate ID, we've got a fucking interviewing robot, yeah in kilts. We've got opening dot IO with their algorithm candidate matching and we just got Mia to hook up so now we have a chat bot on stage as well. This is gonna be fuckin' hot.
Joel: Yeah, Mia was the cherry on top. This is a massively awesome line up. Can't wait to get out there to Portugal and rock that shit.
Chad: So stocked. Recruit Philly after that, then we're live at Job Case, after that, and I'll be at Job Gate where I'm not gonna be doing anything except for sitting in the back and listening to smart people talk. So that's awesome.
Joel: By the way, we have a live feed from Philly right now.
Ed: This is Ed from Philly, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast.
Joel: Let's get to the news, shall we? Yup! Monster commercials discuss.
Chad: Yeah, there's not much to discuss. I started watching these, I watched the first one I thought, "Wow!" I mean literally, they are dark in every single way you can think of. The message is dark, the lightning is dark, everything, the emotion ... There's nothing that's inspiring about any of these ads.
Chad: They make you want to crawl in a hole and not work another day in your life where I can just waste away. I couldn't believe it, because the Monster ads that we've been seeing, the 15, 30 second ads, have been spot on. Very positive messaging, very cool messaging, very funny messaging, I think they tried to go funny with this, but it was so dark that it just ... It was horrible.
Joel: Yeah, it was a really strange 180 from the mobile ads and getting jobs
fast and the speed to market and they tried to be funny ...
Chad: That was not funny.
Joel: It's like you spend 24 hours for your resume and then a recruiter spends six seconds on it.
Joel: And so then new message has gone from, "We're a mobile solution that can get you a job really fast" to "I'm not quite sure", but the end of the commercial has tracking your progress through the job search process, resume help, it looks like they're pitching more of consulting and supporting you through the job search and helping you know what's going on so ... It was a really convoluted, confusing message.
Joel: Even for people like us who live this shit, it should be pretty obvious what their message is. I've gotta assume the regular Joe is gonna be really confused. I
don't think they're gonna laugh.
Joel: They're just gonna be kind of like, "What the Hell did I just watch?" So yeah. Monster, I'd recommend going back to the drawing book on that one, and hopefully getting it right in round two.
Chad: The other one, there was a Dad, and he's just tucking his kid in and he's on his way out, and the kid asks, "Dad, what is a job?" Or something of that nature. And he goes into this pretty much very dark story of, "Well, you get a job and then you're happy and then it's a soulless ..." I mean, it's just ... It is really dark. It's almost like he's telling his kid a bedtime nightmare story before he just walks out of the fuckin' room and I feel sorry for the kid at the end of the commercial.
Joel: Yeah. And I get the whole ... The job search thing and jobs suck and I mean, that's been a constant message from Job Boards since forever, but yeah ... It just wasn't that funny.
Joel: And it wasn't inspiring, it was just a real dud. I guess the question would be, is this batch worse than the purple Bugs Bunny converse wearing commercials?
Chad: Yeah, I think ... I don't know if they're worse. I think they're bad in many different ways. All of those. I think they were on the right track there for awhile because it was really kind of inspiring to say, "Hey. Just found a job on Monster. Just applied for a job on Monster. I won't be here soon." And they pan away and the guy's like, "Yeah. Whatever." Then they pan back and the person's not there anymore.
Chad: I mean, it's like ... That's really funny and it's cool and it's like, "Ah, shit! I wanna use Monster because they can get me a job fast." That was a very simplistic message and like you said, this one is incredibly dark, convoluted, and it's like, "What the fuck was that about?"
Joel: Yeah and the other thing strange to me is like, the only thing they've really done since Scott took over is the video stuff, sort of gain traction.
Joel: I mean, just roll the dice, and show an app where you're seeing videos of recruits talking about the job and Instagram for jobs and you're flippin' through videos of recruiters. To me, that would have been at least something unique that would have made people go, "Oh shit. I'm gonna go download Monster. Go check it out if I haven't for a while." The whole message of, "We'll be there with you, we'll help you with your resume." It just seemed really disjointed from everything that we've talked to Monster about in the last year or so.
Chad: Yep. It was overshadowed by darkness.
Joel: Get it together, Monster.
Chad: Ah, shit. We'll let's get away from this. Let's talk about the LTG and ...
Joel: L to the T to the G.
Chad: And Breezy.
Joel: 18 million, right?
Chad: So, I'm kind of confused on that 'cause it says the purchase of the town acquisition software, the initial 12 million and further performance payments are expected over the next three years capped at 18. So to me that sounds more like 30. The prospect of 30. Not to mention you take a look at evaluation wise, their revenue for 2018 was 3.6.
Joel: And we'll categorize breezy as an ATS here, right?
Chad: Yeah, SMB.
Joel: So to me this is the great consolidation of somebody's ATS's, to me, this is maybe another step in the direction of these little guys sort of gobbled up and I think we're gonna see a lot more of this. I also think it's interesting in regards to the whole waking the dead resumes trend. Breezy had a product similar to Crowded and Crowd is a whole other issue other than their business model, but is that something that wasn't working? Was it something that wasn't taking off the way that they wanted? I don't know if this is sort of a vote against the whole trend of getting your resumes, the old resumes back to life, or maybe it was such a small piece of it that it didn't really matter, but that was the only question I had in regards to sort of Breezy being gobbled up by LTG. Yeah you know me.
Chad: On the SMB side of the house, I'm not sure that there's a huge market for the whole kind of revitalization of a resume database that doesn't currently exist right now. Right? Because you're getting these companies into a system and they probably didn't have one before. I see the whole waking the dead, I think Candidate.ID right now is the ones who are really focused heavily on that for an engagement and kind of nurturing stand points, but that's more on the Enterprise size.
Joel: Maybe the ATS is just tag it on as extra aren't getting it right and the companies that just focus on that are getting it right.
Chad: Yeah. Right? So I think being able to keep those different point solutions and brands is incredibly smart and that's what LTG is doing with Breezy. Breezy's going to keep its brand. Here's the big thing for me. Integration activity is expected to leverage components of Breezy's software to support swifter and richer feature releases to PeopleFluent enterprise product customer. So LTG also owns PeopleFluent. PeopleFluent is an old nasty UX type of system. I think LTG wasn't only buying Breezy to be able to get into the SMB market, I think they were buying Breezy for UI and UX to help on the People Fluent side of the house because they bought them a couple years ago.
Joel: I think I agree with that and I have one big question, did this deal go down on a Sunday, because it would have been Breezy on Sunday morning.
Chad: Nothing like a Lionel Richie. Breezy on a Sunday morning.
Joel: Just when you wish you had the crickets soundbite and it's not on the soundboard. Damn it.
Chad: So nice, so nice. Yeah so here's the thing and this is what we should be looking for. And PeopleFluent customers should be looking for because PeopleFluent is an older platform and I can't imagine the amount of technical debt they're dealing with on a daily basis. Is Breezy going to number one just apply new lipstick to the same old PeopleFluent pig or are they actually going to help PeopleFluent become a more agile platform with better UI, UX, and it'll ... I'm leaning toward the former where it's all about the lipstick on the pig at this point, but who knows? We'll see.
Joel: Yeah, I think it's separate brands and cash checks and snapped necks if they can do it.
Chad: Ah, we'll see.
Joel: Ah, Google. Holy cow, we've almost gone half a show without talking about Google.
Joel: They're in the news this week.
Joel: They released a work from option in their Google for jobs scheme of markup. This is sort of on the heels of relocation jobs or something recently. I'm kind of spacing on ...
Chad: Commute. Yeah, commute job search and they launched the capability to do enhanced job search in over a hundred different languages. That happened last month. So those two did, yeah.
Joel: So I don't think this is a big story. I think it's a growing segment. People who wanna work from home and companies that are willing to do that and my guess is, most job sites don't have a category or an easy way to sort of locate these kinds of jobs. So the fact that Google at least is aware that this is something that's growing and they, they get the benefit of search data to see how many people are searching "work from home". And I'm kind of curious in terms of their job search API, if some of this innovation and these features are driven by people going on CareerBuilder, Dice Rever [00:19:01], people who are using Google Jobs API and searching, "work from
home" and that's driving the innovation around Google for Jobs. I gotta think it does.
Chad: It's probably to an extent. The thing that I would like to focus on is not just the work from home piece, it is that Google is building better job search brick by brick. So we're talking about commute, search for commute. Either walking distance or public transportation. That's one piece and all these other job search companies didn't have that.
Chad: Then they were talking about over a hundred languages. Search in over a hundred different languages. These other companies didn't have that. Now they're doing work from home. I mean, it's brick by brick, and they're not big bricks, right?
Chad: So it's brick by brick and they are building not just better job search, but they are starting to with the job search API, the talent solution jobs search API, they're starting to really aggregate the entire fucking market to use their systems, to use their API. So I think this is more of the long game and just building that foundation brick by brick so you can put your brand on top of it. 'Cause that's what's happening. We talked to Stephen Rothberg about College Recruiter. Their brand is on the Google Foundation. Career Builder, Jive, I mean, all these different companies, they're putting their house on this Google Foundation.
Joel: It's a tale of two cities, right? So you have Monster with very little innovation and throwing money at bad advertising, let's be honest. And then you have Google who does very little adverting. I mean, they did a Superbowl ad, I'll give 'em that, but they're way more focused on, "How do we incrementally improve the product for the good of the job seeker?" And I think that if you were looking at strategies, what Google is doing is far more beneficial and effective than what throwing money to advertising is probably doing for Monster. I love that every few weeks out of Google, we get something new even though it's maybe small, they keep chugging along and it's truly cool to see.
Chad: It is and this is another message to talent equitation professionals out there, HR professionals, get your shit together because all of this also ramps back to Google for jobs. So all of these jobs are searchable there and if you're not applying the right tags for maybe remote or virtual work, right? Work from home. Whatever you wanna call it. If you're not putting salary, if you're not doing all these different things, then you're not going to rank as well, number one.
Chad: And then number two, if your user experience sucks and you have a bunch of job seekers jumping into your job and getting the fuck out quickly, Google sees that. So you have an opportunity right now to rank better than all those other different job boards that are out there. There's job sites that you're paying to be on, you have to do a better job or you're not gonna get rewarded and your ass is gonna be down at the bottom of the pile where job seekers aren't going to see your shit.
Joel: Were you a secret shopper in my ERE presentation yesterday about Google for jobs?
Chad: Sometimes I think we share a brain.
Joel: We probably ... That's scary. Yeah. Ew, ew.
Chad: Such an asshole.
Joel: I will say, depressingly that educators like us have a long way to go with most of the market when it comes to Google for jobs.
Chad: Oh yeah.
Joel: Most people I talk to in HR can't even spell SEO, let alone understand what the Hell you just on this podcast. Lead, follow, or get the Hell out of the way everybody. Speaking of ERE ...
Chad: Get the fuck outta the way.
Joel: Our boy Colin Day at iCIMS, would you call it scathing? Revealing? Honest? Transparent? Brutal?
Chad: One of the things that we get outta Colin is that he has a vision and one of the visions for his organization is definitely close partnership with Google. And he actually penned an ERE article around Google for Jobs and said, "Google for Jobs, without being sidetracked to an intermediary, increased their traffic for their clients." They have like 4000 clients or some shit like that. "To 134%." So increased, increased. Canada traffic was more than doubled and, I mean, from our standpoint, I definitely wanna get Colin or Al CT over there on the pod to talk more about this and to get into the trenches on this.
Joel: Yep. So the article's entitled, "What we're seeing so far from Google for Jobs." It's on ERE.net. And in addition to some of the numbers, he goes into some optimization tips, like putting salary information on your job postings, candidate data stuff that's interesting. I mean, it's a really good article. And we don't get a lot of CEO blog posts like this on sort of these platforms.
Chad: Yeah, he's been out there.
Joel: Yeah, he has been, but this is the first time I've seen him post at least ERE in such a sort of passionate way, so I hope we see more of out this from Colin as well as other CEOs that are leveraging Google, 'cause I think, ultimately most of the ATSs find job boards to be a pain in the ass. And to be middle men that are unnecessary, they might not say it publicly, but they certainly say it to us privately, and Google for Jobs takes out that middle name and makes the ATS/The Career Site, the original source of the job, which frankly it should be, and I think that's the direction that we're going, and that's pretty good for the ATS business.
Chad: Yeah, if Al and Colin and all of the team over at iCIMS can help their clients get their shit together because they don't know what the fuck they're doing, right? Then that would be awesome, because you could lead the industry and obviously that's not bad for business either.
Joel: Fortunately for iCIMS, I mean, they're doing a lot of the work for the companies. I mean, the data that goes in is what the company does, but at least iCIMS, is working really closely with Google to make sure their Is or dotted and their Ts are crossed.
Joel: Let's take a quick break and here from our buddies at Sovren and we'll talk about LinkedIn and Elon Musk losing his shit.
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Joel: Boom! So LinkedIn's in the news. First and foremost I guess. They're saying bye-bye to their standalone job search app and the job search will be part of the lone LinkedIn app, which I'm sure everyone's using. I don't know how many are using the job search app, but the job search will just role into one application. Yeah, I guess that makes sense to put all the content, the profiles, and the jobs into one app. Makes a lot of sense. I don't see LinkedIn being like a Facebook where you download a separate messaging app from the main app and doing multiple things. LinkedIn is just fine with that one app that does everything.
Chad: And they should. And it sounds like or at least reports have come in saying that Facebook is looking to roll messenger into their native app as well. So it seems like there was kind of this trend of, "Let's build more apps and have people download more apps." Where now, they can start pulling people into a core app and I think from LinkedIn's standpoint, it makes sense because I would say, and I have to take a look at numbers, that obviously more people have the LinkedIn app versus the LinkedIn jobs app.
Chad: So everybody who doesn't have the LinkedIn jobs app, you're not gonna be as exposed to that job search. If they can do that on their core app, then it just makes more sense. You can expose more individuals quicker and do more things. So they said they're not gonna lose any functionality from going from two apps to one app.
Joel: Yeah and they're doing a lot more advertising and in some of the bigger markets when I travel and we saw this in Chicago, they're pretty active in the job search advertising, and it just doesn't make sense to confuse the consumer with, "Okay, I can't search for jobs on the app with profiles and the newsfeed, or it's different than what I have to download separately." So yeah it makes a ton of sense to put these under one roof.
Joel: In my mind and it should be a good thing for them.
Chad: At ERE though, you heard some things about price increases and that kind of shit.
Joel: Yeah. An E-Mail went out to agency partners of LinkedIn basically talking about a price increase. So the E-Mail was basically, "As your team plans for the second half of this year and into 2000, we want to inform you that we're increasing the prices of LinkedIn Recruiter and job spots for purchases and renewals beginning July 1st 2019. We consider a lot of factors when we rise our prices. The US will see a ... Some customers in the US may experience an increases, others will receive an increases in both recruiter up to 3% and jobs no more than 2%. This will depend on a customer size and hiring scale. And then Canada, recruiter pricing will increase by up to 7%."
Joel: "For jobs. Some customers may not experience an increase while others will receive an increase of up to 3%." So it's a little bit gray on exactly who's gonna get this price increase, but definitely some people are gonna see their bills go up.
Chad: So every company that I talk to, every company when we bring up LinkedIn, they go directly to pricing to say, "I can't believe it's so fucking expensive." All ready.
Joel: And it's gonna get worse, because as GDPR and privacy and people’s rights and consumers rights continue to trend throughout the developed world, LinkedIn is in the driver's seat, because the profiles they have, were actually put on there by the people who are on there. They weren't scraped from About Us pages. They weren't scraped out of Get Hub or anywhere else. The sourcing sites that we talk about a lot are gonna be in trouble as privacy concerns continue to raise. LinkedIn is gonna be safe and as a result, those prices are gonna go up. So get used to it.
Chad: That's a good point. That's a good point. Still fucking expensive.
Joel: Nobody said winning was cheap. So now we need Google to step up and find some way to battle the profiles that are LinkedIn anyway. Tesla, driverless in the news. Elon Musk losing his mind.
Chad: Dude, yeah, so next year they say Tesla's going to launch driverless taxi services, much like an Uber. So any owner will be able to add or remove their car if it's a model three or a model S initially from the Tesla network and earn revenue. Tesla will take about 25 to 30% of that revenue in areas where there aren't a large pool of these vehicles, Tesla will obviously supply its own. So how is this going to work? Well, the way that I looked at it was, it's gonna be like Uber, but without you having to be in the car to earn cash.