Authenticity is a tough thing to come by these days, but Amazon takes things to a whole other level, and the boys hash out what's wrong with the employers branding strategies. Oy! Plus, Stepstone wants to have its cake and eat it too, college degrees ain't all that, Indeed goes offline with its latest product and much, much more. Enjoy and give sponsors Sovren, JobAdx and Canvas lots o' love.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HRs most dangerous Podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls, it's time for The Chad & Cheese Podcast.
Joel: I think I realized why we should not do live shows, face-to-face, on a regular basis.
Joel: Because my liver would quit. It would just say, "Fuck you, I'm out."
Chad: "I can't do this anymore. Oh my God. Oh my God."
Joel: So welcome to this weeks show, live from beautiful Fishers, Indiana.
Joel: At Ale Emporium, off of Olio Road.
Joel: Come out and say hi, because we'll probably be here.
Chad: We might still be here, in the fetal position. [crosstalk 00:01:04] In the
Joel: I'm Joel Cheesman, your co-host.
Chad: And I am Chad Sowash.
Joel: On this weeks show, we're talking about Indeed going off-line.
Joel: IAC, that big internet company, making a big acquisition.
Chad: Can I get another beer?
Server: Sure thing...
Chad: Yeah. Same thing, the Weizengoot.
Joel: The StepStone's double-standard.
Joel: We'll be right back, after this word from a sponsor.
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you'll want to take it to dinner.
Chad: And we're back.
Joel: We never left.
Chad: WE never left, we were always here.
Joel: Isn't editing great?
Chad: It was amazing, I love this shit. So, yeah man. I love coming up and coming to the Ale, having a few beers.
Chad: Having some pizza.
Joel: What are we drinking today? Let's do a quick beer review.
Chad: The Weizengoot.
Joel: The Weizengoot, [foreign language 00:02:33]
Chad: It is a Hefeweizen.
Joel: A Hefeweizen, yes.
Chad: Made here locally, so it's not a... You have the [crosstalk 00:02:41]
Joel: I have the list here.
Joel: It's pretty lengthy. I had the Dare Devil Liftoff before that, which I find very tasty.
Chad: Now, it is beautiful. But the Weizengoot is a German-style Hefeweizen. Bananas and clove aroma, medium-light-
Joel: Thank you, bartender.
Chad: Oh, thank you. I just got my next Weizengoot. So, yeah. Good beer, good pizza.
Joel: Let's do a cheers and some shout-outs.
Joel: I think that's appropriate.
Chad: Gerry Crispin.
Joel: That's my best Marilyn Monroe imitation.
Chad: 72. And, guess what? SO, I messages him this morning-
Joel: Did he really reveal his age, or was that just off-
Chad: NO, I saw it on Facebook.
Joel: Oh, Facebook. Okay.
Chad: So, I messaged him this morning and said, "Dude, happy birthday. We put up a page to be able to, pretty much, memorialize all the Gerry tales." He's like, "Oh, thanks so much man. On my way to Burning Man." He's on his way to Burning Man, right now.
Joel: That's awesome. SO, to blow your mind a little bit.
Joel: When you and I, probably, met Gerry, he was about our age.
Chad: Oh, shit. No way. Yeah, probably. Fuck. Fuck. Not that Gerry's old.
Joel: SO, Burning Man and tattoos in Bangkok are in our future. Thanks Gerry, for the inspiration.
Chad: Yes. Thanks for that, Gerry. Bucket list. We were received a message from Richard Essex. Tell us about this one.
Joel: Richard may need some counseling. Richard is a former [crosstalk 00:04:14] CareerBuilder employee and heard one of our podcast, You Will Know Us By the Trail of CareerBuilder Dead, or something.
Chad: Yeah, yeah.
Joel: And said it brought tears to his eyes, listening to the number, I guess, of people that he knew, that were no longer around. Just, the devastation that CareerBuilder has taken on.
Chad: He was gone, so I don't know if that means he was laughing so hard he was crying or he was crying because he was so sad. So, either way, Richard-
Joel: You could also take his name and some iteration of it, and create Dick Sex. So, that could be why he's a little tearful.
Chad: Moving on.
Joel: Richard man, we're praying for you.
Chad: Praying for you, man. You're not there anymore, so don't worry about it. We can only hope Dom buys that thing. Tim Proctor-
Chad: ... the Walking outro is awesome. So, Joel said, "Hey look, should we get new outros?" I said, "Why the fuck the not? What do you want to do?" So, he comes back with this Christopher Walken outro. If you haven't listened to the end of the podcast, definitely listen today. We'll be playing it. It is funny as fuck.
Joel: It's pretty good. It has inspired more celebrity outros, if you will.
Joel: I'm kind of torn between who's next. We've got the Deadpool, we've got Jack Nicholson, we have Leonardo DiCaprio.
Chad: So listeners, if you have an idea of your favorite outro, at least a celebrity outro, let us know.
Joel: Shawshank... Who's...
Chad: Anthony Dufrene.
Joel: No, no. The other one.
Chad: Oh, Morgan Freeman?
Joel: Morgan Freeman, yeah. [crosstalk 00:06:04] He's an option. Yeah, there are many celebrity impersonations out there. Which one should do the next Chad & Cheese outro? Hashtag us at ChadCheese.
Chad: Big shout-out to our friends over at Bayard advertising. Mainly, Daniel O'Neill. So Daniel, I want to let you know that-
Joel: Daniel stepped up.
Chad: ... right now, we are having our corporate outing, the Chad & Cheese corporate outing. We have the Colonel Taylor's Small Batched Bourbon and also...
Joel: And the Redbreast 12 Year cask-strength Irish Whiskey. Daniel has got to be on some AA watch list, somewhere.
Chad: Yes. I love it.
Joel: Somebody is watching his buying activities and saying, "We have a drunkard on our hands." So Daniel, watch out for the AA police out there.
Chad: So, what I love right now is the Agency's swag game is escalating.
Joel: Alcoholism is no laughing matter, Chad, by the way.
Chad: It's escalating, okay? So, we get amazing swag from our travel sponsor, Shaker Recruitment Marketing. Then we just get new Yetis from them. Ext thing you know, we get a new Bayard Koozie, or whatever. What was it, tumbler?
Joel: Stop with the tumblers.
Joel: If it's not Yeti or...
Chad: Keep on sending, send those tumblers. Top-shelf alcohol-
Joel: ... Frisbee. And Frisbees.
Chad: Oh yeah, yeah. So, that was a swag-bomb, by the way. So, don't do that, that's all I have to say.
Joel: Somewhere there's a closet at Bayard with mad swag from the 2000's.
Chad: Whoever thought it was funny to send me an Indeed Frisbee, yeah. It went straight to the trash. Just so you know.
Joel: Yeah, I don't need the Glassdoor hacky sack, thank you very much.
Chad: I actually kept my Glassdoor hacky sack. Shout-out to the JobBoard doctor who was back in the Tweet storm.
Joel: The doctor.
Chad: Be there, doctor. Hung Lee and Adam Gordon for having us up, a really bat clean-up, last week in the Recruiting Brainfood show. That was interesting.
Joel: They said, "Okay, we'll put these guys at the end of the show because most people will have left by then." But the audience stayed pretty loyal, I was pretty impressed.
Chad: I was impressed.
Joel: Solid line-up, Hung, you got to upgrade the equipment. But other than that, it was a solid experience. A good time. I just said, "Hung, you need to upgrade your equipment."
Chad: That was another porn reference, by the way.
Joel: No wonder he's single. Jesus.
Chad: Shout-out to... are you good?
Joel: Yeah, I'm done with shout-outs. Let's go to the travel schedule.
Chad: Events. Okay, so, first and foremost, T-shirts. We haven't talked about these in awhile. Chad & Cheese limited-edition Cheese shirts, we're running low. But thanks to Emissary.AI, we still have some left over. So, any of the events that we're going to be at, look for Chad & Cheese. Ask for T-shirts, we probably have them. They're soft,
they're warm, they're wonderful.
Joel: They'll keep you warm in the fall season-
Chad: Yes. That's exactly right.
Joel: ... as we go into conference season. We're going to Sweden.
Chad: We are going to Sweden.
Joel: I want to hash out this food challenge that you've thrown down to me.
Chad: You are the food guy, I'm the beer guy. You're the food guy. What?
Joel: This is the nastiest food challenge-
Chad: I don't even know how to say it.
Joel: Yeah. We don't know how to say it. It basically looks like a can of fish, left over from Word War I-
Chad: Stringy, canned fish.
Joel: ... that's been fermenting for 50 years.
Chad: Yeah, I think there's something nuclear about it, as well.
Joel: That has just enough salt that it doesn't go bad, but it's just on the cusp of being rotten fish.
Joel: That they want me to eat. And I'm not sure why I got picked for this challenge. As far as I'm concerned, there's not enough vodka in Scandinavia, for me to even think about doing this. So, yeah. We're going to Sweden, but don't expect me to eat rotten fish, thank you very much.
Chad: I believe it will happen, just so you know. Yeah, we're going to be kicking out the Sweden-
Joel: #ChadCheese if I should eat the rotten fish.
Chad: Really excited that we're going to see, obviously, the robot. How can you not be excited to see the fucking robot, for God sakes? But we're going to see TNG Staffing, AIDA Digital. I'm watching these-
Joel: I'm bring a wig for the robot. I'm thinking a different look is needed for the robot.
Chad: No. First and foremost, you're already creepy enough around the robot, as it is. Saying you're bringing a wig for the robot-
Joel: I'm thinking like a Jackie-Brown-inspired wig, for Tengai, would be good.
Chad: Oh, so creepy. So creepy. Moving on...
Joel: How do you say creepy, in Swedish? I'm going to learn.
Chad: ... Recruiter Nation Live.
Chad: San Francisco-
Joel: The Bay.
Chad: ... September 9th through the 11th. If you are in the San Francisco, or around the San Francisco area, you need to be there. Here's the reason why, we have a $200 discount. Go to Recruiter Nation Live, sign up-
Joel: Which I think is only good through the end of August, so get on that people.
Chad: Yeah. So, you better get on it now. ChadCheese@RNL-
Joel: That's the at sign.
Chad: ... That's the at sign, yes.
Joel: Not the A and T word.
Chad: ChadCheese@RNL. SO, that's the Recruiter Nation Live, we will be there. Who knows what we'll be doing, nobody knows.
Joel: We're going to interview Aman, the newly-minted CEO of Jobvite, for sure.
Chad: I think Aman will probably have as many interviews with us as Tim Sackett has.
Joel: Let's bring some rotten fish from Sweden, see if Aman will eat that.
Chad: Oh, he'll eat that shit.
Joel: He will?
Chad: He'll eat that. He will show you.
Joel: Hoosiers eat anything.
Chad: Aman will not step back from a challenge, that's what I know. Last but not least, TAtech North America in Austin, Texas. September 24th through the 26th.
Joel: Oh, yeah.
Chad: Death Match, kids.
Joel: Death Match time.
Chad: Death Match. Sponsored by our friends-
Joel: Four companies enter, one company leaves.
Chad: ... at Alexander Mann Solutions with contestants... Can you name them off?
Joel: Pez.ai, not the candy.
Chad: Pez.ai, yeah, Pez. Yeah.
Joel: Asses first...
Chad: Assess First, yes.
Joel: ... SeekOut-
Joel: ... and Job.com.
Chad: Whoo man.
Joel: Yeah, you like that?
Chad: You're a block-chain master, that's awesome.
Joel: Yeah. I need more beer, apparently.
Chad: Yeah, apparently. We need to give you some beer.
Joel: Another drink.
Chad: So, that's it, Those are the next three events we're going to be at. If you want to see what other events, because I think we have seven or so, go to ChadCheese.com, upper right-hand corner, Events, click it. Find us, come get your T-shirt, buy us a beer. That's what we want. Thanks.
Joel: Kiss Chad's forehead, he loves it. Let's get to the news.
Chad: News. StepStone.
Joel: Double-standard at StepStone. So, you have an inside informant or two, over there, telling you about the double-standard at StepStone. What's going on?
Chad: We certainly do, we certainly do. So, it's interesting because last week, we actually talked about how StepStone and 23 other job sites that are not under the StepStone umbrella-
Joel: 23, yeah.
Chad: Yeah. So, StepStone has like 30 job sites under their umbrella. There're another 23 that were, pretty much, throwing the anti-trust word at Google in the EU, which is always a bad thing. Google got nailed for anti-trust with shopping.
Chad: But they fixed their shit. Unfortunately, here's the thing. StepStone, even though they're throwing this anti-trust bullshit lawsuit out, one of our listeners
actually sent this message.
Joel: Smart listeners, we have.
Chad: "Hey Chad..." Well, we asked. We said, "Hey, we can't see the German or the EU Google for Jobs. Send us screenshots."
Chad: We got a deluge of screenshots.
Joel: [foreign language 00:13:42]
Chad: Here's one of them. "Hey Chad, just listened to your most-recent podcast episode. I know people who work for StepStone and they have an entire team focused on indexing all their jobs on Google for Jobs." So, what they're trying to do is they're trying to propagate StepStone.
Chad: Trying to propagate all of their jobs throughout their 30 different-
Joel: Job sites.
Chad: ... job sites. All their real estate, right? To be able to leverage Google for Jobs, in the same-
Joel: While suing them.
Chad: Yes. While suing them, that's the key.
Joel: I believe that's called "talking out of both sides of your mouth", in America.
Chad: I believe that's called "talking out of your ass".
Joel: Yeah, that could be it, actually.
Chad: I think that's what it is, yes. Talking out of your ass.
Joel: Well, at least they're covering their bets.
Joel: You know? They're betting on red, that Google will win and then, whatever.
Chad: Uh-huh (affirmative), yup.
Joel: But they're also betting on black that, "Hey, we'll get some dollars out of Big G."
Chad: From another listener, we received an email. "So, here's StepStone's UK brand, at Totaljobs.com. Not only-
Joel: A large site.
Chad: Yes. "... not only sponsoring search terms on the search-engine results, mind you, but also marketing their jobs, or marking their jobs up for index into Google for Jobs." Then, again, sent a screenshot. So, StepStone, I know you're listening, quit talking out of your ass.
Joel: Are we requesting StepStone, step up, if you will, and pull their jobs like Indeed has done?
Chad: Yeah. If you're going to be a bitch, and whine about this stuff, you're going to bitch and you're going to whine, then yeah.
Joel: Take a stand.
Chad: You're doing the exact, right thing. You're whining, and then you're talking out of your ass. But, if you're going to puff up your chest and you're going to take Google to fucking court on anti-trust, then why don't you go ahead and do the right thing? Pull your shit off of Google for Jobs.
Joel: Yeah. We give Indeed a lot of shit, but at least they have the cojones to say, "We're pulling it."
Chad: Yeah. Yeah, they-
Joel: At least in America.
Chad: ... they think a lot of themselves. SO, they do that kind of stuff.
Joel: All right, so StepStone, what are you going to do? Nothing. They'll probably keep doing the same thing, lose in court. But they'll still get traffic from Google. In the meantime, Indeed is getting into the career fair business.
Chad: Ooh. Why?
Joel: Speaking of the Big I, out of Austin, Texas.
Joel: Well, I would clearly say-
Joel: They would probably tell you that, "Well, it's an opportunity we can't pass up." I would say, "Hey, it's another chip to this whole Google for Jobs thing is kicking our butt. We might want to place our bets in other areas." One of those being career fairs, knowing that there's no way in Hell that Google's ever going to put on career fairs.
Joel: So, essentially, Indeed has launched this product targeted toward high-frequency hiring. We're talking truck drivers, we're talking servers, and hourly workers, et cetera. The idea is that, when you post these jobs online, everybody applies, there's no pre-screening or no friction between applying and actually talking to the company.
Joel: So, the idea is like, "Hey, if you had an actual event that someone has to get in their car, or get in an Uber, or get on their Bird Scooter to have to come down and interview, you're going to automatically pre-screen people who aren't really serious about the job." Then you can have the event. Indeed handles the advertising of it, the management of it, the candidate flow, et cetera. So, yeah. I guess it's a nice, potentially revenue-flow. I thought job... I mean, I thought job fairs had kind of died out in the '90s.
Chad: So, is this a real, physical job fair? Or is it an online job fair?
Joel: No, it's a real, brick-and-mortar job fair.
Chad: It's a real-
Chad: They're setting up... Okay, so here's the thing. It's really hard to scale a lot of that shit. I mean, especially in this kind of economy, when we do have a low employment-rate. I now people are still looking for jobs, but from my standpoint, this is not the time to start up one of these job fair endeavors. This doesn't make any sense.
Joel: Well look, if you're Indeed's leadership, you're saying, "Okay, this whole pay-per-click for job postings thing might not last forever. It probably won't. So, where are we going to place bets, or where are we going to diversify our income?"
Joel: We've already seen them with staffing, right? That's an obviously, something that Google's not going to get into. They're not going to get into job fairs.
Joel: They're not going do this-
Chad: It's too hard, there's too much to it.
Joel: ... job tracker, whatever it is, where you go take pictures for help-wanted signs around the world. So, they're doing things that, I think, they know Google isn't going to touch and seeing if they can make a dent into it. They've tried other businesses that have failed and they've closed them, to their credit. This job fair thing, to me, is sort of the next idea. I'm sure they've had clients says, "Hey, you guys should do job fairs." And they said, "Yeah, let's try job fairs. We already have 10 clients that'll do it
Joel: So, it seems a little haphazard, but-
Chad: 10 clients won't pay for a job fair, just so we're clear, first and foremost.
Joel: I tried really hard, to think about job fairs and the last job fair I actually remember.
Chad: Yeah, uh-huh (affirmative).
Joel: Whether it just be in regular advertising around my local market or online, or on Facebook, or anywhere. They seem to be extinct.
Chad: When I was the Chief Experience Officer over RecruitMilitary, one of the things that they did, that I didn't totally agree with, but they did, good for them, is they scaled up their job fair. They have a very niche market that they're going after, right? Now, that was very hard for them. They did a very good job, they really did. But, at the end of the day, Indeed's not going to build a business off of that.
Joel: No, no. It's a way to get money out of clients that are already paying them for clicks and job postings and whatever else.
Chad: It reminds me of Monster Blue Collar, remember Monster Blue Collar?
Joel: Yeah, yeah totally.
Chad: Then they had a whole segment. It was like, "Oh, you guys are the blue collar sales people." That shit died. And it's not only going to die, but in a market like this, right now, it's going to be flushed down the toilet, quick. So, I think Indeed buying SIFT, I'm going to say that there're probably many different teams that they have working on these things.
Chad: But I think the market place piece is where they win, in the skilled market, in skilled-trades market.
Chad: It's not the job fairs. So, go after it, Indeed. We're going to make fun of you, go after it. But I really think SIFT if your answer.
Joel: Yeah. This also is another reason for Indeed to have face-to-face relationships with clients. I mean, since their inception, they've been a very hands-off, face-to-face organization, right? Everything has been over the phone or online, post jobs, put in your credit card.
Chad: Well, scalable.
Joel: Totally scalable.
Chad: It's scalable. Yes.
Joel: It totally makes sense, but now-
Chad: That's how you make money.
Joel: But now they're getting into more like, the staffing business, and this business, and face-to-face stuff, and let's build relationships.
Chad: Why do you think Google doesn't do it?
Joel: Again, that's a thing that Google probably isn't getting into.
Joel: They're not going to get into the consulting-
Chad: Why won't they?
Joel: Because it's bad business and it's not their core competency.
Joel: Ding, ding, ding, ding. Hey man, when the asteroid hits, you got to survive any way you can.
Chad: Yeah. Well, the way that Indeed survived when the last asteroid hit was, they focused on their core. They knew what they were good at and they knew what they were bad at. They weren't fucking with anything they were bad at. Right now, the only thing I'm seeing with Indeed is that-