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Facebook Goes Google 4 Jobs

Just when you think Facebook is about the bow out of the employment game, something new happens and the boys talk about something new this week. What else, LinkedIn and Indeed were in the news, along with Delta Airlines and Amtrak. What's more, a new site has entered the global Top 5 in job search traffic. Who is it? Gotta listen.

Enjoy this podcast, powered by Sovren, Canvas, and JobAdx.


James Ellis: Employer brand isn't something you sprinkle on your recruiting like magic fairy pixie dust to kind of make it better. It is both a craft, and a calling if that's the kind of work you want to do with your employer brand, come join me. James Ellis at the talent cast.

Intro: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HRSs most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash, and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where hearse complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys, and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese


Joel: Aw yeah, boy. Howdy kids, and welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast. HR is most prison ready duo. I'm your cohost Joel Cheesman.

Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash.

Joel: On this week show, Delta Airlines workers get paid. LinkedIn TalentHub gets cozy, and Facebook goes all Google for jobs on us.

Chad: What?

Joel: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after we pay a few bills.

Sovren: Sovren Parser is the most accurate resume, and job order intake technology in the industry. The more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting that's S-O-V-R-E-N com. We provide technology that thinks, communicates, and collaborates like a human. Sovren, software, so human, you'll want to take it to dinner.

Joel: I'm well fired up today, Chad. I got SWAT teams out in my yard. I got a drug sniffing dog. Yeah. You know the neighborhood I live in is pretty rough. So, we got shit all the time. No, it's been a crazy morning here for sure. I'm a little bit a little bit jacked up, and I've only had two cups of coffee before the show. So, let's get to the shout outs.

Chad: I can see you peeking through your vertical blinds, "What's going on?"

Joel: Remember The Burbs with Tom Hanks back in the 80s? It was a total like window moment. I'm going to multiple windows to see what's going on. So, to put a little context this, my neighbor who's, from what I could tell a nice guy, I walked the dog this morning, and there's like seven cop cars. Well, a combination of cop cars, and like detectives who are in regular cars, clearly searching my neighbor's house. For what, I don't know, but it's been an exciting morning to say the least. They had the dogs come in. Don't be surprised if my door goes off here while we're recording, and I get some questions from a detective. Unfortunate, I don't have anything to tell him. It's not a Burbs situation. But anyway it's been a fun morning here out in suburbia for sure.

Chad: That sounds like a blast. Oh shit, fuck, or not getting into shout-outs. The new Chad and Cheese t-shirt Promotions going to be happening soon, kids. So, remember last year, we thought, "Hey a Chad and Cheese t-shirt would be kind of cool." And Joel was like...

Joel: I didn't think it was.

Chad: Joel was like, "Nah, I don't think so." And guess what? Everybody thought it was fun and cool. So it's coming back, and we're going to have the same type of promotion we did last year. We're going to have our listeners vote on which tee shirt they believe should be the 2020 Chad and Cheese T-shirt.

Joel: Yep. I don't know if it will be better, but it's got to be bigger, because I've gained about 12 pounds since the last t-shirt. So, slightly kidding there. A shout out from me to Build a Bear. I don't know if you've seen this in a mall near you, but these stores that build little stuffed Teddy bears. They're bringing baby Yoda to Build a Bear. With a three year old I couldn't be happier. I'm going to Build a Bear very soon to get me a baby Yoda.

Chad: Can you imagine the Disney cut on that? Because you know Disney's taking like the largest cut. That baby Yoda is probably the cutest thing I've seen in a very long time. Other than Jeremy, of course.

Joel: Good God. Jeremy's my kid for those that don't know.

Chad: Axe.

Joel: Shout out to David Bernstein, Job Sync. We don't talk about new hires very often, but David is sort of an icon, a stalwart in the industry if you will. Job Sync was recently a firing squad participant. Alex Murphy swung and hit a home run on that one. So good for David. I think he left Allyo, which is where he was prior to this I think, but a big win for Job Sync, good things continue to happen for them.

Chad: David Bernstein also known as the Steven Seagal of the recruiting industry.

Joel: Yes. The man that can still pull off a ponytail. I don't know how he does it.

Chad: Oh, big shout out to Deidre Pitts, she's apparently a big Chad and Cheese fan. I heard that she's probably going to want one of those new Chad and Cheese T-shirts.

Joel: Love it. Love it. Well, I'll see your super fan there, and I'll add Cameron Laker, Vancouver based Minefield. That's the company name. Not like there's a minefield in Vancouver, although there might be. He's the CEO and co-founder of this RPO big fan, reached out to me and said, "Guys love the podcast. Keep it up." So, out there on the West coast in the north, Cameron Laker the shout outs for you, buddy.

Chad: Boom. Lynn Stewart over at TMP connected with me on LinkedIn, and wanted to say that she definitely loves the show.

Joel: Awesome. Rick Carsley of Ikea, he sat down with us this week, showed us a good time, showed us the inner workings of Ikea, had a great time out there. Apparently, you got to actually top golf with him. I had to leave to get my kid early, so maybe you can add some context to how that went.

Chad: Well, first off, we had a full Ikea spread. I didn't know that Ikea actually have chefs on staff. So, Chef Joshua brought us in this amazing spread is what it was. We didn't go to a buffet.

Joel: He brought us balls.

Chad: It was brought to us.

Joel: Big balls, spicy balls.

Chad: We had all the different types of Swedish meatballs that Ikea loves, and cares for, but we had wonderful outlay of food, and great conversation with Richard, which is going to be coming very, very soon. He did show up late to top golf. I was actually just walking off. We had a beer, and I can guarantee you we are going to meet again.

Joel: Fantastic. The level of transparency that he showed in the interview was fantastic. So, make sure that you listen to that one. If you're a fan of the show, you'll, you'll love it.

Chad: Yep. Big shout out to Phyllis Badgett from AMS. She is a new listener, and she's enjoyed what she's heard thus far. And probably that was because it was Mark Jones, the SVP for AMS.

Joel: Mister Jones and me. Give it some time. It'll rot your brain to the point that you don't like it anymore.

Chad: It's good stuff.

Joel: All right. Nancy from Philly, who we have not mentioned in a long time, heart goes out to her. Apparently, she was in some sort of a car wreck.

Chad: No way.

Joel: So, she's been a little bit out of the loop. She says, "I'm back, and I'm bad, and I'm going to reengage with you guys, and listen to the show again, and catch up on episodes." So, Nancy, we love you out there in Philly. Hope you're okay, and stay safe.

Chad: Love you, Nancy. And we didn't say that. Also, Rick from Ikea is from the Philly area. So if you guys want to-

Joel: Philly loves us.

Chad: We've got a bunch of Philly listeners.

Joel: So by the way, Philly, Philly Recruits coming up. We're not invited. We outstayed our welcome apparently after one show. But yeah, if you're in the Philly area, checkout Philly Recruit, it was a grand old time.

Chad: I think it's recruit Philly.

Joel: Whatever.

Chad: Adam Gordon over at Candidate ID, I swear listens to every podcast that pops. I don't know if he's listened to as many pods as Steven Rothberg has, but he continues to tell us on Twitter how wrong we are, and we appreciate that Adam.

Joel: And we usually are wrong. So it's not that big of a stretch to point out how wrong we are. I'm really out of shout outs, but I'm waiting for you to bring up Wilkins Burnett. Does that name ring a bell?

Chad: Okay, so LinkedIn is whack. Okay. So, Wilkins Burnnett connects with me on LinkedIn, and then I automatically get a message, and she says, "Hey, I'm looking to upgrade my page, and I'm looking for" pretty much a relationship "a partner" is what she said. And I responded, "Okay, a page partner? I don't get it." She's like, "No, two different things." I kind of think I know where this is going. So I was like, "Okay, so a business partner." And she was like, "No, a boyfriend or somebody to marry." And I'm like, "You got to be fucking kidding me." Within less than five minutes, this is what I get. Okay. So once again, not the first time, cat fishing on LinkedIn alive, and well.

Chad: Second, we talk about sales people on LinkedIn all the fucking time. Please, if you're a recruiter or your sales person. So, I get a connection request from a kid. His name is Frederick Noble Ropkey, the eighth, not the second, not the third, the eighth.

Joel: This fucker royalty or something? The eighth.

Chad: Anyway, as soon as I connect, I get a sales request for a call, and I wrote back, "Dude, you're killing me. I don't even know you, and you're pitching me a call." His response was "Why not have a discovery call? You accepted my friend request. If we're not actually going to talk then what is the point of connecting on LinkedIn?' My response was "good point" and I severed the connection. It's fairly simple people, if you just go in again, it's kind of like when you're a teenager, and you're just hitting the hormonal phase, and you just want to go straight after it because you haven't had sex yet. It's got to be slow, and you've got to create a relationship, and you can't just go after it. Just can't hit it and quit it. You got to you got to do this the right way.

Joel: Buy me a couple of drinks, and get to know me first.

Chad: Fucking crazy, dude.

Joel: Don't try to dive down my pants at the first connection on LinkedIn. I will go back to the wind. All right, where did they get the name Wilkins Burnnett.

Chad: It is totally fake. I have no clue.

Joel: Burnnett has like three Ns in it or something.

Chad: Two Ns.

Joel: It feels like some AI software like just is pumping out these profiles with crazy name.

Chad: Dude.

Joel: So, if you get a Wilkins Burnnett, people just don't accept.

Chad: It's not just that. If you get somebody who is trying to hook up with you on LinkedIn, I mean seriously, if you're not doing this on Tinder, right? You're looking for a hookup on Tinder. If you're not, you're on Facebook. If you're on TikTok, just push away from the table and say no fucking way. Okay, but that being said...

Joel: Pretty sure there's a whole lot of hooking up that's going on via LinkedIn. Don't you think?

Chad: Fuck no.

Joel: Pretty much, every social network I bet.

Chad: No, that's so sad.

Joel: No? If you found your husband or wife on LinkedIn, hashtag us at #chadcheese and tell us the story.

Chad: That being said, if you want to connect with us on LinkedIn, not catfish us, connect with us on LinkedIn, because you listen and you want to engage. I mean real engagement, not try to get me on a fucking sales call within five minutes. Then feel free to find us individually on LinkedIn, on Twitter. If you like the Facebook, we have a Chad and Cheese page on Facebook. You can look that up. Feel free to engage with us anyhow. Anyway, on Twitter #chadcheese.

Joel: If you want to have that call with Chad, at least start out with something like "Love the podcast. You're so much smarter than that cheese guy" you know, stroke his ego, and he'll maybe take the call with you, but don't just jump into it.

Chad: There's a possibility.

Joel: You're saying there's a possibility?

Chad: Let's do this really quick, events. We're firming up our 2020 events schedule, our calendar. Again, partnering with our travel sponsor, Shaker Recruitment Marketing. Shaker Recruit Marketing everybody. So I'm really looking forward because we sent them a shopping list for new stuff this year. So I can't wait to see...

Joel: Waiting for my Speedo.

Chad: Getting the Cheeseman Speedo. We are locked in to the Gathering of Cult Brands, February 19th through the 21st in Banff.

Joel: Canada.

Chad: Dude, fucking winter. It's a winter Wonderland at the base of the Canadian Rockies with some of the biggest brands in the world. It's Forbes, top rated, must attend business summit Under Armor, Hot Wheels, Doritos, Spotify, Coca-Cola, ESPN, Skittles. I mean fucking brands that you're not going to see anywhere in our conferences, and our events, and the types of people, the actual brand types, the CMO types. This is the best opportunity for you to actually get in front of those type of people, listen to them, and engage in conversations, whether it's around employer, brand, holistic brand. It doesn't matter.

Joel: If you're an agency, you would do yourself a favor by at least sending someone to explore the opportunities at this conference. Whole lot of money being sloshed around.

Chad: We're talking marketing money people, branding money people.

Joel: Marketing money pitches.

Chad: Not to mention. Once again, I can't imagine in our industry this wouldn't be just a pipeline. So if you are in an advertising agency, recruitment marketing agency, what have you, and you're not going to Banff for the gathering. What the fuck are you waiting for? Go to, literally. Not to mention on Friday we're going to be the first ones on stage and it looks like we're going to have mimosas, the Caesar, which is the bloody Mary of Canada, and some other hair of the dog drinks.

Joel: Can't wait, and looking a little bit ahead in March, we'll be heading to London for the TA Tech Unleashed Super Conference.

Chad: Pretty awesome.

Joel: Firming up the Deathmatch contestants as we speak.

Chad: Love it.

Joel: But be on the lookout for that. It's going to be good time.

Chad: Excellent, You ready to get to the news?

Joel: Topics. You got some insight on Facebook. What's up?

Chad: Yeah. The Facebook jobs product is starting to spike, so big props to Nathan Patrick, and the gang over at AIA worldwide, AKA TMP. Patrick and Nathan contacted me, and said they had some really intriguing information around Facebook. So, apparently Facebook is starting to test what happens when they actually start getting job content into their jobs platform.

Joel: Say what.

Chad: They've apparently started scraping jobs from corporate career sites, and AIA/TMP noticed activity through their TalentBrew platform.

Joel: Interesting.

Chad: Huge apply click spikes. So, they investigated, and found their clients jobs on their respective Facebook pages, and the clients had no clue how the fuck they got there.

Joel: Of course.

Chad: AIA reached out to Facebook, and the regular Facebook job, customer service people had no clue either. So, this is obviously happening in beta. It is so new that they haven't even briefed the jobs people about this. And I think it's interesting because you brought up the applicant tracking system integrations that are happening.

Joel: Yep. So they're developer pages have integration via ATS as part of their solution. There's some big names in there that we know, SAP SuccessFactors. ISM-SmartRecruiters, but you're saying that's clearly not an integration with an ATS. This is actually apparently scraping jobs, and getting them into Facebook and the new apply button I think is interesting. That says basically what apply through the company website, or something and then that person goes off Facebook and applies through the website. So that's certainly new.

Chad: Yeah, instead of the chat bot, or uploading information to Facebook. Right.

Joel: Yep. Yep.

Chad: The thing that's interesting is that obviously TalentBrew is not an applicant tracking system. They are the cosmetic piece for experience. They do gather information, but really if you think about it there's an ATS behind it. So, if there was an integration, they would already be pulling the jobs from the ATS directly. Right?

Joel: Right.

Chad: That's not happening. So, they must be going to the actual sites themselves, clicking on careers, clicking on jobs that they might have built a bot to be able to do this, to identify where they're at, and start scraping. But it's interesting that this is obviously something that's new, something that's happened over the last quarter, or so, but they're seeing very big spikes. I guess you could say runs parallel to what we saw with Google for jobs.

Joel: So, Indeed's got to be happy about this, that they were dealing with Google for jobs with Google. Now they get to deal with Google for jobs on the largest social network in the world. So they've got to be giddy about this new development.

Chad: Even more so companies like Career Arc, who have created actual products around feeding jobs to Facebook. I mean, we don't need that anymore. We're actually paying you to do it, and Facebook is coming to us to do this, now. It's kind of, it seems intermittent to a point, because Nathan and Patrick actually said not all of the jobs are actually showing up on Facebook. In some cases they were, so maybe they're not hitting the scrape every 24 hours, who knows? But it does sound very amateur, and beta at this point.

Joel: Sounds suspicious. God dammit. Every time I want to write Facebook off, and say they don't really give a shit, and they're eventually going to peter out and give up. They do something like this that tells me, they're kind of serious about this job search stuff and they're going to continue to do it. Which makes sense. I mean, I know that their marketplace is getting crazy traffic.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: I mean, Zuckerberg has been on record talking about how much traffic goes to the marketplace and the classified. So, it makes sense, and you know, a billion and a half, you know, headed towards 2 billion people on the planet. That's, you can't just fuck with that shit. Like it's going to be potentially huge. Indeed, and others should be quite aware of this.

Chad: Yeah, and think of it from this standpoint, Google for jobs, user experience isn't great, because you go to the job, there are all these buttons that ask you to click through, and apply with one of these job boards, and or the career site. They're doing this from the from the reason of obviously, "Hey, we're not a monopoly. We don't want to have an antitrust issue", but it really sucks for the user if they click on our job board, and then they have to go through really an intermediary to be able to do what they want to do.

Chad: That being said, the Facebook scenario, Facebook's just taking them currently directly to the job on the corporate career site. Whether that's housed by your TalentBrew, or your applicant tracking system. It doesn't matter. So this is pretty telling I think, and I really believe, just like you'd said, the Indeeds of the world are going to lose in this case. And we'll talk a little bit about that later.

Joel: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Facebook man, keep plugging. More news out of the 800 pound gorilla category. So LinkedIn, this past week launched some new affiliates. They added video, and candidate background screening tools to their TalentHub, which is their applicant tracking system. The new tools are provided by First Advantage and Talview. First Advantage of course is background checks, drug screening, all that good stuff. Then Talview, you're looking at basically video interviewing, AI enabled stuff. I don't know a ton about them, but you know a little bit about Talview. Can you speak to what their capabilities are?

Chad: I can't really speak to their capabilities. I just know that if you're looking at LinkedIn actually displacing Dynamics 365, the talent version, that's big. When we first started talking about TalentHub, we're like, "Well, what are they going to do?" They have two applicant tracking systems now. Well, I think they're making it very apparent, and they're going to start stacking things on top of TalentHub. First Advantage just purchased by Silver Lake not too long ago, and Talview, I mean these are two big partnerships to be able to focus on different aspects of the game that LinkedIn probably really doesn't want to touch, or maybe they want to acquire those organizations down the road.

Joel: Yep. So a little bit more about Talview. So, the Greenwood Talview founded in 2017, offers users access to Talview's proprietary. It's called the Instahiring experience platform. The company says its platform "enables hiring managers to work remotely, automate routine tasks, and reuse data throughout the hiring process. The firm offers an AI enabled video interviewing service with natural language processing, and video analytics."

Chad: Again, we're talking about going through, trying to build a full scale hiring stack, right. Or at least on the way to try to get there through partnerships.

Joel: Sounds a little bit like our friends at VERVO, or some hiring view competition, I guess.

Chad: Yeah, but that competition is plugged directly into LinkedIn.

Joel: Cool. Very good. Well, let's get a word from Canvas. We'll talk about one of your favorite companies, Delta Airlines.

Chad: Oh yeah.

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Joel: You know, I got to say, I'm still a little bit angry at Delta Airlines wife for making me sprint in the Atlanta airport last year, trying to keep up with you, but this next story makes me feel a little better about Delta Airlines.

Chad: I love me some Sky Lounge.

Joel: You do love Delta, man.

Chad: The story from AJC, Delta to pay out 1.6 billion in profit sharing to workers.

Joel: Oh shit.

Chad: Dude. Okay, this is the kind of story that we want to hear and I'm always pounding out about, with regard to companies, and record profits, right? So quote, "employees will get the bonus payout on Valentine's Day." Very nice, Delta. When the company typically holds profit sharing celebrations for workers across the country. It will be its sixth year in a row that the airline has paid out more than 1 billion in profit during payment.

Chad: According to Bastian, the CEO, "for years I would get beaten up by Wall Street. They thought the profits were theirs. And why are you giving the profits away to employees?." Bastian said during the remarks that he had during a press conference Monday, that's "Wall Street has actually come full circle, and they realize that Delta is the most awarded airline in the world because of its employees."

Chad: This is one of the things that you and I kind of go roundabout, is that when companies use that those profits, or they're not paying taxes, and they're buying back stock themselves, and they're not putting it in their employees. This is where you fuck up. Unless you're Delta Airlines, and you put that money back into your employees, you make them feel wanted. Not to mention, this is like two months of a salary, was it not? Like two months, I had two months of salary.

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: Big applause dude.

Joel: Yeah, big applause on that, and yeah, so some context, two months’ salary. That's not nothing. I mean in terms of a recruiting, and retention tool?

Chad: Yes.

Joel: This is serious, serious business, and I think it works out to roughly a third of gross profit that's going into the bonuses that go to the employees. It's also interesting to note that these sort of profit sharing agreements also happen in a few other airlines, and they also are pretty common in the auto industry.

Joel: One thing that both those industries have in common are labor unions. So, whether you're pro or anti-labor union, there is probably some connection to rewarding employees, because you're dealing with labor unions that are expecting rewards, and not expecting you to reward Wall Street or shareholders, which let's be honest, most of the tax cuts that have happened go back into Wall Street. They're not going back into workers pockets. So big applause for Delta for not looking at Wall Street, but looking at their employees to reward with the profits that they made as a great airline as Chad keeps reminding me, although the jury's still out as far as I'm concerned.

Chad: Well, the company expects to hire six to 7,000 people this year, and a total of 25,000 over the next three or four years. In a very competitive landscape, this is the way you do it. I mean this is the type of things that you have to do. Yes, we have to focus more on the people. When you do that, as it was said, the most awarded airline in the world, because of why? Not because of the CEO, not because of the fucking stock holders, because of the people who do the work every single day. When we lose sight of that, that's when we lose our brand. That's when we lose our people. And that's when we start to fuck up. Much like a company. We're getting ready to talk about.

Joel: Choo, choo. Amtrak.

Chad: So, Amtrak asked two people who use wheelchairs, individuals with disabilities to pay 25,000 for a ride that would normally cost them $16 a piece. This is an NPR story. Imagine an organization treating their people as great as Delta did, right? Or, and hopefully they will continue to, now imagine an organization treating their customers badly. Now, we're talking about Amtrak who pretty much said "Hey look, our trains are not fitted for people with wheelchairs. So what we have to do is we have to take a one of those out of service for a day, and then we can bring it back. And that's going to cost about $25,000.

Joel: So, basically for the cost of an actual car, they had to pay that to buy a seat on an Amtrak. This is like a Saturday Night Live parody of a parody. It's so bizarre.

Chad: It is.

Joel: That this that this happened. I don't even have much to say about it except what the fuck?

Chad: Again, this is total bullshit reply from Amtrak. They said, "Oh, you know it's going to take us, we're going to have to take a car out of service for a day, blah blah blah." It's total bullshit, because they should already meet accommodations. It's called universal design, and it's something that is good for everybody. So, to be able to say, no, we've got to take a car out to make it ready for somebody with a wheelchair is total complete bullshit.

Chad: They should have accommodations available and there are different types of accommodations. Think about it from airplanes, and the flight accommodations. Right?

Joel: Sure.

Chad: They have actual, they have people there. Now you can't bring your wheelchair in, and set your wheelchair in that slot, right. A little bit different, but still, here's the thing, they have people that are dedicated that you see with the wheelchairs. They're walking them down who actually help those individuals get to where they need to go. They get in first, or they come off last what have you, but there are accommodations that are made. If Amtrak said, we will make accommodations, we will actually have a human being help, and service while you're on ride, right. That would be an accommodation that they could have made that just makes sense. But in this case, they're pretty much saying fuck you.

Joel: I mean the Americans with Disabilities Act is a 30 year old plus act, right. As far as I understand and Amtrak is no stranger to sort of these issues of disability seating challenges, and whatnot. So this is just really bizarre. I mean, I love how the story says for 25 grand they could have bought more than 1500 tickets.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: As opposed to the one that they were priced. So, this is just fucked up, man. Get your shit together, Amtrak.

Chad: Ridiculous.

Joel: But what's not ridiculous is the deal you can get from JobAdX. Let's hear from them, and when we come back from that, we're going to hear about a new company that has cracked, the global top five for job search traffic. Ooh, how's that for a tease? We'll be right back.

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Joel: Oh, shit. My neighbor's running down the street. Oh shit, just kidding. Just kidding.

Chad: So bad.

Joel: So, Indeed rolled out some news this week. They launched the Indeed job market. That sounds sexy, doesn't it? So, the service works as a subsection of, it contains educational material, discussion board, resume tutorials, and a database of employer reviews similar to those that you'll find on Glassdoor. It also includes a local events calendar, that's exciting, which now consists of eight Indeed events in the US meant to introduce the Indeed job market to job seekers.

Joel: Obviously, with Google for jobs, Indeed is looking to launch new things like this, so just local events to get local markets excited. This story was in AIM Group this week. They believe the strategy is working, by early last year quote "almost 44% of traffic was direct." Although, I would say a lot of that was the advertising that they're spending. "Half of search traffic was from searches contending the word Indeed, which is interesting."

Chad: Which again is from advertising. I mean what they're about is they're spending a shit ton of cash to be able to get people to the site. Which is fairly understandable, but it's one of those things where before Google for jobs, they had all of this organically coming to them, right? It wasn't something that they paid for, but they did do search engine marketing, don't get me wrong, but they had a leg up over everybody else because of their organic search, and now that organic search is somewhat displaced.

Chad: I think this is interesting. No question. Because they are going to have to do something, add services, all these different things, and while they do this, are they going to take their eye off the ball? That's the big question.

Joel: The ball in your mind is jobs. When they first came out, ‎Paul Forster and Rony Kahan, when they first came out it was really specific. It's cost per click, right? Pay per click advertising. It's very focused. It is laser focused, and that's what we're going to do and that's what they did incredibly well, right.

Joel: When you start to see organizations like this broaden up, and they don't just broaden up into two or three different areas, they do it in a multitude of areas. You wonder if they're going to lose focus in the areas that matter most to their stakeholders. Their stakeholders being the candidates, and then the employers, and they obviously don't really care about the quote unquote "employers" that much, because of you know, search quality or what have you. They believe that everything starts with the job seeker, and okay, that's great. But if they take their eye off of the job seeker ball, the employer is going to go away entirely.

Joel: Sure. I think when you see these sort of brand searches, it is an indication that they are building a strong brand via television advertising, in this case. That's obviously a model that's very costly. So, someone there said, "gee, can we do like local events or resources or how to write a resume shit on the site to be more of a resource tool." Now Monster, CareerBuilder, everyone else has done that stuff, and it didn't really work out too well for them.

Joel: The brand stuff starts to wear out as you stop advertising, right? I mean it took one generation for monster to an energy drink as opposed to a job board for kids today. So, Indeed, if they stop spending the money, to me they're in trouble. To me when the rubber hits the road is when Google starts adding a pay per click component to Google for jobs.

Joel: And maybe talking about Facebook, Facebook starts integrating some sort of a pay per click, or promotional thing, because companies only have so much budget to spend in these places. I'm going to guess that Google's going to undercut in price, and get everyone over to Google, which is going to fuck Indeed. Cause they're either going to have to lower prices or lose advertisers completely. To me that's when things really get chaotic at Indeed. I'm not sure these things that they're launching now is going to put Google at bay when they start launching pay-per-click stuff, and companies have to decide where am I going to spend my money?

Chad: Well, I think what we have to remember is that Google, and Facebook are more lifestyle platforms. They're used every day. Whether you're looking for a job, you're looking for a recipe, you're looking just to interact, and engage in the community. That's what you use. My phone uses Android, right? I mean it's actually baked into my every single day behavior. Indeed is not, right.

Joel: Nope.

Chad: These things that they're launching are nice for that individual if they're looking for a job, right. If I'm looking for a recipe, I don't give a fuck. If I'm looking for directions. I don't give a fuck, right. So, I agree, but going to a gun fight with a rubber band, they're going to be shooting a rubber band.

Joel: You wanna get Capone? One of his brings a knife. You bring a gun, he puts one of yours in the hospital. You put one of his in the morgue. That's the Chicago way.

Chad: Well, FBI way.

Joel: All right, a new entrant into the top five global job search numbers here. This was provided by a and AIM Group analytics. So, your top five reads like this, now. Indeed at number one with 590 million worldwide visitors, users, that's fucking nuts. Number two is Joobal, J-O-O-B-L-E, not well known here in the US with 123 million users. Glassdoor at 69.2 million, HeadHunter at 51.1 million, neuvoo-

Chad: neuvoo.

Joel: ...also known as if you've been listening to the show, comes in at number five cracking the top five with 47.3 million. So with the name, the new entry into top five, they're on their way, and they're right on the heels of HeadHunter just four million left and they could go to the number four spot.

Chad: This is momentum, and this is momentum before they actually start the big push of, right? So this is the before. So, this says something to me, they're doing something to actually get ready for a big splash. This in moving forward with new brands, we just talked about obviously Indeed spending a shit ton of cash. Is that sustainable? Right? What can do with this new name to be able to provide sustainability when it comes to growth? That'll be exciting to watch.

Joel: Yeah, and it's kind of a nice little a prize fight that we get to watch here in the next few years, which we didn't have just a couple of years ago. I didn't even know who fuck neuvoo was two years ago. I don't know about you.

Chad: Exactly, and in two years we won't know who they are either because they will be They will be that'll be who we know them as, and it'll be a word we can all spell, and say.

Joel: The traffic number for Indeed also underscores how long it's going to take for them to die.

Chad: It took Monster a while to get thrown off the top of the mountain. I think in this case it's going to take longer, but once again, unless Indeed understands that they're playing, they're trying to play a lifestyle game, and they're not a lifestyle platform. That that again is another focus point where a neuvoo or a, or what have you. I don't think that they're going to play that lifestyle game. I think they know where their bread is buttered, and they're going to have laser focus. This is how Goliath gets knocked down by David.

SFX: That's it, man. Game over man, game over.

Chad: We out.

Joel: We out.

Walken: Thank you for listening to, what's it called? A podcast with Chad, the cheese, brilliant. They talk about recruiting, they talk about technology, but most of all they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know, and yet you're listening. It's incredible, and not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, swiss, the so many cheeses, and not one word, some weird. Anyhoo, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play or wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way you won't miss an episode, and while you're at it, visit, just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. It's so weird. We out.

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