Agentic Transformation w/ Kayleen Weaver & Patrick Kelly

Talent acquisition teams are being asked to hire faster, magically elevate candidate quality, slash budgets to zero, and perform daily miracles (cough) AGENTIC (cough) all while navigating a hiring landscape that gets more chaotic by the minute. In this episode, The Chad & Cheese Podcast hosts Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman bring their signature brand of snark to the table, joined by Kayleen Weaver (Director of Talent Acquisition at American Senior Living) and Patrick Kelly (VP of Operations at Healing Partners). Together, they dive into whether AI and automation are actually fixing the recruitment dumpster fire, or just giving talent teams fancier ways to pull their hair out.

ENJOY!

LINK TO VIDEO PODCAST

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

[Intro Voiceover] Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, rash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast!   

[Joel Cheesman] Oh yeah, what's up everybody? It is the podcast your HR lady warned you about. We are the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host Joel Cheesman, joined always—Chad Sowash is in the house. Welcome to RecFest USA, Nashville!   

[Audience / Chad] Yeah!   

[Joel Cheesman] Come on, the Brits are livelier than that! I said welcome to RecFest USA!   

[Audience] (Cheering)   

[Joel Cheesman] Here we go. Let's do some jumping jacks.   

[Chad Sowash] No.   

[Joel Cheesman] One of us drank too much last night. I'll let you figure out who it was. Good luck with that. We're in for disruption, Chad. I'm frankly glad that there aren't just a bunch of humanoid robots in the audience, because I've been led to believe that the people are worthless and that we don't need them anymore. Apparently we do.   

[Chad Sowash] I don't think that's what it is. On this stage, obviously, we're going to be talking about tech all day. Hopefully you'll be able to pop in and out, and actually hear from practitioners who have problems and use technology—practitioners and experts who use technology to actually drive outcomes. That's what we're looking for. All this dystopian stuff, we're not going to get into it. We're going to get into our everyday work.   

[Joel Cheesman] Shall we begin the show?   

[Chad Sowash] Let's do it.   

[Joel Cheesman] We made them wait long enough. Everybody, welcome Patrick Kelly and Kaylene Williams to the stage!   

[Chad Sowash / Joel Cheesman] There are two experts on the stage and it's not Chad and Cheese. Welcome, everybody. Do we have them mic'd up? We'll get some mics for you guys, get comfy. Welcome, guys.   

[Kaylene Williams] Yeah.   

[Joel Cheesman] Having a good time in Nashville? What'd you do last night?   

[Kaylene Williams] It's been great. Just got in yesterday. We had the Recruiting Leadership Summit yesterday, which was incredible—lots of impactful conversations. After that my brain was a little bit fried with information, so I did a little bit of socializing and then called it a night.   

[Joel Cheesman] Okay, good call.   

[Chad Sowash] Hey, it's a marathon, not a sprint.   

[Kaylene Williams] It's a marathon, not a sprint, yes.   

[Patrick Kelly] I flew in late last night, so I didn't have an amazing night. I just went to the hotel and got ready for an amazing next couple of days.   

[Joel Cheesman] All right, you're in for Mardi Gras, my friend, because it's going down. Something we always do on the show is a Twitter bio: a 30-second summary about you, not the business stuff—family, sports, where you're from. Give us 30 seconds on you, Kaylene.   

[Kaylene Williams] All right. Well, I am about three hours away in Knoxville, Tennessee. Go Vols! I've got a daughter that's a sophomore at UTK and a son in middle school. I've been happily married for many years—I'm not going to date myself—and I am currently working in the senior living industry. I really found a passion in senior living. How many of us are in the sandwich generation? We are in that place where we're taking care of our kids, and our moms and dads are getting older, so we're having to take care of them. The work that I do is really meaningful for me. I was able to have my mom in a senior living community and really enjoy some of the best last days of her life while she was there. Getting to do talent acquisition for a senior living company and hire for those people is really special.   

[Joel Cheesman] A few games of fruit bingo under your belt?   

[Kaylene Williams] She loved bingo, but more than bingo was poker.   

[Joel Cheesman] Ooh! All right. Patrick, give us your 30 seconds.   

[Patrick Kelly] Okay. Patrick Kelly, Vice President of Operations of a company who actually services a handful of her properties. We didn't know that till we met a few weeks ago. From Baltimore, Maryland. My wedding anniversary was this week, actually, for seven years.   

[Kaylene Williams / Chad Sowash] Mine too! Nice! What day?   

[Patrick Kelly] 21st.   

[Chad Sowash] 21st of September! Earth, Wind & Fire, baby! That's right!   

[Patrick Kelly] Exactly. Three cats, no kids, taking care of an elderly parent, so I understand where she's coming from. I'm in the healthcare world as well with a company that does wound care across all long-term care facilities in 20 states today, and I'm happy to be here.   

[Joel Cheesman] Any elderly cats in there, too?   

[Patrick Kelly] We have an eight-year-old lady who is getting terrorized by a two-year-old, so a little bit.   

[Joel Cheesman] Cat living.   

[Chad Sowash] All right, Kaylene, let me go ahead and start with you. Let me dig into this. Obviously, we're here to talk about problems and solutions. What was the big problem that you want to talk about today on stage? Let's go through the whole story of the solution, how you found that—carte blanche.   

[Kaylene Williams] Great question. I started with Americare Senior Living about two years ago. We operate in five different states. We have 140 LLCs and then two of our other service lines of business. So it's a pretty large organization with a very slim TA team. I have a team of five of us, plus two interns, and we do about 3,500 hires a year. For us, capacity was a huge problem. One of the things that my recruiters were having to do that was very manual and tedious was go in and turn all the ads on for all of our sponsored jobs. If you want to get the word out about hiring for caregivers, you have to put money on it. We had a significant investment there that we were not able to manage very well.   

I came to RecFest last year and spent a lot of time talking to every single vendor; I wanted to know what was out there. There are a lot of attractive products out there that keep changing. My eyes lit up and there were tons of things that I wanted to do, but I knew that I had to solve a business problem. After vetting several different vendors, we ended up choosing Joveo as a programmatic partner. We launched them in January—it was a seamless launch, and from there we saw a significant drop in our CPA. We actually launched with Joveo and diversified the job boards that we advertise on right in the nick of time before Indeed did its horrible thing.   

[Joel Cheesman] Which horrible thing?   

[Kaylene Williams] I don't know.   

[Chad Sowash] There's a long list.   

[Joel Cheesman] Just for context, of the 3,500 hires, what percent was nurses and healthcare-related, and how much was support staff?   

[Kaylene Williams] Great question. I would say we're about 40% on the clinical side. We have a lot of skilled nursing communities that really need folks with clinical licenses. For us, cooks and housekeepers were not the hard-to-get roles. It was really those hard-to-fill positions. When we first started with Joveo, we piloted the clinical positions alone, and we were able to get 40% more applications within the first three months with Joveo's push for clinical jobs than we got on Indeed the entire previous year, while also lowering our CPA.   

[Chad Sowash] Is that because of distribution or because it managed Indeed better, or both?   

[Kaylene Williams] We have them managing our Indeed sponsorships, but also all of the other programmatic jobs that they bid for. They're using job boards that I had never heard of. They turn ads on and off when job seekers are actually looking. What we were doing previously was throwing money away running ads for a week at a time with no strategy. They provide the agentic AI strategy behind how we advertise for our jobs, which gets us the most bang for our buck.   

[Joel Cheesman] Throwing money away, Chad, because 60% of the time, it works every time. Yes!   

[Patrick Kelly] For us, it was actually a journey. I'm in private equity healthcare, or was, until we got sold, so we're always told to do more with less.   

[Chad Sowash] Private equity stuff, yeah.   

[Patrick Kelly] Private equity stuff—keep the financiers happy. What we did was engage Joveo to develop our career page, because we weren't allowed to have one for a very long time. They used agentic AI to...   

[Chad Sowash] You weren't allowed to have a careers page? How did anybody know you had careers?   

[Patrick Kelly] My team still filled 100 positions without a careers page.   

[Chad Sowash] Quiet hiring, Chad! All the good you're doing! No job page!   

[Joel Cheesman] We don't exist, but we have jobs!   

[Chad Sowash] Quiet hiring, yeah.   

[Patrick Kelly] While we stood up the ATS, we engaged Joveo to create a careers page for us with agentic AI, which allowed us to scale up. We were scaling up not just in our own area, but in other areas too, so we could hire vascular nurse practitioners and wound care nurse practitioners. In basically a week, we had a whole new page set up just for those people.   

[Chad Sowash] I think we might be ready. Are we ready? Here we go, much more interesting than this. You can talk us through this while it's going, too.   

[Patrick Kelly] We used them to develop the career page, which was pointed directly to our target. We wanted to stay very cognizant of our brand, which is a small doctor's practice brand that happens to be in 20 states. We really focused on our people; all the pictures on there are our actual practitioners. We wanted to get it out to all the areas where we hire, because we are a mobile practice. That means we don't have brick-and-mortar locations in these states, so we have jobs across multiple regions. We also utilized them to set up a chatbot to help our recruiters answer questions upfront. It allows nurse practitioners or applicants for other positions to apply just by answering four or five questions. We have a short application process because fast is better.   

[Chad Sowash] Speed is king, baby. Speed is king.   

[Patrick Kelly] Yeah, and they just provide name, email, license number for nurse practitioners, and location preferences, and it feeds directly into our ATS.   

[Chad Sowash] This stuff matters.   

[Joel Cheesman] Does that music play when I'm using the career site?   

[Patrick Kelly] It should. That's the robot music. Joveo made that music for us.   

[Joel Cheesman] You mentioned speed. Asking both of you, I know with nursing, speed is of the essence. You have to get candidates while they're on the market. Talk about speed when you made the changes—how speed to hire and applications were impacted.   

[Patrick Kelly] Applications for us saw a different approach: we received fewer applications, but more relevant ones. We were pulling in wound care nurse practitioners or practitioners interested in wound care or vascular services, so we weren't getting pediatrics when we mainly service geriatrics. Their tech team built LLMs that create background pages content that feeds out to anyone using ChatGPT or asking questions about job opportunities.   

[Chad Sowash] So it's not just search engine optimization, you're also doing answer engine optimization. Anybody else doing that in the crowd?   

[Joel Cheesman] The kids call it AEO.   

[Chad Sowash] AEO, answer engine optimization. We lost the search engine optimization battle to Indeed. We lost candidates who went directly to Indeed instead of our applicant tracking systems. If we're not looking at answer engine optimization, the same thing will happen, but you guys are already on top of that.   

[Patrick Kelly] We're already doing it. We are a good testing ground because we mainly hire for three positions, so we can build these out quickly and pull the right candidates through programmatic AI tools.   

[Joel Cheesman] Kaylene, talk about speed.   

[Kaylene Williams] Speed is important. When I started at my company, there was a lot of cleanup needed with our workflows and processes. After attending RecFest, I wanted to bring in technology that would solve a clear business problem. We cleaned up our time-to-fill, recruiting workflows, implemented a ticketing system, dashboard, and reporting tools for operations managers before I even pitched AI to them. There's no point in using AI to run flawed processes faster down a hill if we didn't fix internal issues first. Once we improved time-to-fill and ran programmatic advertising, as Patrick mentioned, it wasn't about more applications—it was about quality applications. We have agentic AI running with Joveo, and we set thresholds to turn ads off when we reach a target number of applicants so hiring managers can review them. Then we go back to market if needed. For us, it's about having enough qualified applicants to select good talent.   

[Joel Cheesman] Talk about that for a second, because we hear a lot about automated candidates and fake applicants. What changed regarding candidate quality and the screening process?   

[Kaylene Williams] With Joveo, they added an Easy Apply option for us, which was critical. We were experiencing significant candidate drop-off. I don't know how many in the audience have reviewed your application process with your C-suite and shown the hoops candidates jump through.   

[Chad Sowash] Make them apply!   

[Kaylene Williams] Why pay for jobs to be seen and then require candidates to jump through hoops? Joveo enabled Easy Apply, and the floodgates opened. We don't see as many deepfake candidates in senior living because very few people want to fake applying for hands-on caregiving positions. We're somewhat protected there.   

[Joel Cheesman] Never thought about that!   

[Chad Sowash] What a screening process!   

[Kaylene Williams] There's unsexy stuff to TA tech, and that's one of those things. We've reduced duplicate applicants, which has been great. Now we're proposing full digital transformations so we can protect our job board investments, capture applicants as leads, keep them in the pipeline, and nurture them using agentic AI technology like chatbots and automated screening questions.   

[Chad Sowash] Kaylene just set the bar, Patrick. What did you do?   

[Joel Cheesman] Do you wipe asses?   

[Patrick Kelly] I do not. I'm on the operations side. We don't get many fake applicants because we match candidate NPI numbers, as we deal mostly with healthcare providers. Where we bring people back into the process is evaluating and screening candidates. Our recruiters spend more time with actual candidates because of what we've automated. Interviews are recorded, hiring managers can score them during the interview, and an intent engine indicates when candidates are enthusiastic or unenthusiastic about questions. Recruiters guide the process as internal consultants rather than simple screeners. We also schedule directly rather than asking for availability, because hiring is a top priority. When we grew from 300 employees and were asked to double headcount, we needed a process that was fast and efficient by having qualified people screen qualified candidates.   

[Chad Sowash] Was that easy to sell to private equity, given the efficiency and margin improvements?   

[Patrick Kelly] The pitch was simple: every provider brought on generates $50,000 to $100,000 a month, so the financial return spoke for itself.   

[Joel Cheesman] Did he say they use people?   

[Chad Sowash] Yes, I heard that.   

[Joel Cheesman] You're out of control. They're using people!   

[Chad Sowash] Did your team embrace the changes?   

[Patrick Kelly] Yes. We had many new hiring managers, so it was easy to train them on the process, and the executive team bought in. Show executive leadership the financial impact of new hires, and support follows. The hardest part was recording interviews because legal wanted to shut it down initially. We asked them, "Do you want to know you have a problem, or find out when an EEO complaint is filed?"   

[Chad Sowash] It provides clear proof.   

[Joel Cheesman] They just agreed to a career site, give them some slack!   

[Chad Sowash] Recording provides proof if an applicant claims something inappropriate occurred. It serves as risk management for everyone.   

[Patrick Kelly] We also use recordings for manager development and interview training.   

[Chad Sowash] A great mentoring and teaching tool.   

[Joel Cheesman] Kaylene, regarding C-suite alignment and data—are you seeing AI provide insights that give talent acquisition a bigger seat at the table?   

[Kaylene Williams] In senior living, leadership prioritizes sales and resident occupancy. Speaking to the C-suite using operational and sales concepts helps them understand candidate recruitment as lead management. You wouldn't ignore a prospective resident's family, so you shouldn't ignore job applicants knocking on your digital front door. Furthermore, showing cost reductions—like Joveo delivering $8 to $10 lower CPA compared to Indeed—demonstrates tangible value. Candidates kept in a CRM can be nurtured over time, even if they aren't ready to start immediately.   

[Joel Cheesman] Treating recruitment as marketing builds long-term brand equity. Patrick, what has feedback been like from candidates regarding the simplified application process?   

[Patrick Kelly] Candidate response has been positive. We provide clear upfront information and validate details throughout recruitment. We also highlight the reality of the work so candidates have realistic expectations. Alignment between marketing claims and actual employee experiences is essential.   

[Chad Sowash] Focusing on business metrics is key for TA leaders. How long did it take to shift focus toward business outcomes?   

[Kaylene Williams] Having worked in various roles from caregiver to director helped me understand broader operational needs. Instead of overwhelming executive leadership with 30 TA metrics, present two to four core metrics like reduced agency usage or faster time-to-fill. Aligning with IT and knowing your numbers allows you to pitch solutions effectively to each executive stakeholder.   

[Chad Sowash] Tailoring the message to the stakeholder is key.   

[Joel Cheesman] Regarding candidate ghosting—how has technology helped ensure candidates show up for interviews?   

[Patrick Kelly] Upfront clarity helps, but recruiter execution is key. When recruiters connect with a strong candidate, they schedule the next step immediately while on the phone rather than waiting days. Clearly communicating timelines and valuing the candidate's time reduces drop-off.   

[Chad Sowash] So it's a human-in-the-loop approach with automated front-end support and personalized follow-ups.   

[Patrick Kelly] Correct, combined with automated text or multi-channel follow-ups tailored to candidate preferences.   

[Joel Cheesman] Would you agree, Kaylene?   

[Kaylene Williams] Yes, automated reminders sent to candidates' mobile phones significantly reduce interview no-shows.   

[Joel Cheesman] Let's open up for audience questions.   

[Audience Member] How did you handle duplicate applicants, and what ATS are you using?   

[Kaylene Williams] We are on a legacy ATS that lacks modern API connectivity. Partners like Joveo work within that manual structure to pass data. Joveo provides a single reporting dashboard tracking duplicate applicants. Moving to a CRM helps redirect duplicates to alternative open roles across nearby locations. Around 30% of our applicants were re-applies due to high brand saturation in key markets.   

[Chad Sowash] Patrick, what ATS do you use, and do you face deduplication issues?   

[Patrick Kelly] We use Jobvite. Deduplication is less of an issue for us given the scarcity of nurse practitioners. We focus on talent discovery and use AI tools over our CRM to re-engage past candidate pools.   

[Chad Sowash] What's next on your technology roadmap?   

[Kaylene Williams] My wish list includes automating additional manual tasks via CRM and career site chatbots for pre-screening, freeing recruiters to focus on human evaluation.   

[Patrick Kelly] We're implementing automated sourcing platforms and building AI dashboards integrated into our operational database. This helps operational and sales teams forecast staffing needs for expansion.   

[Joel Cheesman] Connecting recruiting insights directly to sales and growth planning! That's another great session. Round of applause for Patrick Kelly and Kaylene Williams! Learn more at joveo.com. Thank you, everyone!   

[Outro Voiceover] Thank you for listening to... what's it called? A podcast! The Chad, The Cheese! Brilliant! They talk about recruiting, they talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing! Just a lot of shout-outs to people you don't even know, and yet you're listening! Incredible! And not one word about cheese! Not one! Cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss... so many cheeses, and not one word! So weird! Anyhoo, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode. Visit www.chadcheese.com. Just don't expect recipes for grilled cheese. We out!