We are unleashed this week as, um, UNLEASH America makes its third trip to the states. The boys wax poetic about their time in Vegas, which includes a Chad & Cheese party, a pot party and selfie consultants … don’t worry, it’ll all make sense. News-wise, CV Wallet raised money, Jobcase cuts heads and CEOs are still losing their minds over remote work. Pass the Tylenol, bet it all on black and enjoy this live episode from a Vegas dive bar.
TRANSCRIPTION SPONSORED BY: Disability Solutions partners with our clients to build best-in-class inclusion programs and reach qualified, talented individuals with disabilities of every skill, education, and experience level.
Intro: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for The Chad & Cheese Podcast.
[music]
Joel: Oooh, yeah. We are live from a dive bar in Las Vegas, licking our wounds from a week at UNLEASH America. Hey kids, you are listening to The Chad & Cheese Podcast. This is your co-host, Joel "What I Did Here Stays Here" Cheesman.
Chad: And this is Chad "Did You Pick This Place Because It Has A Shit Ton of Big Booty Latinas In It" Sowash.
Joel: I don't know what you're talking about. On this week's episode, which is Abbreviated CEO's Gone Wild, Sir Richard Unchains the Blockchain.
Chad: Oh my God.
Joel: And UNLEASH is unleashed. Let's do this. How are you feeling, Chad? Your battery a little low?
[chuckle]
Chad: I'm one of those guys who at first I am energized off of all the engagement.
Joel: Sure.
Chad: And then it just fucking smothers me.
Joel: And it's been a while since we've had this much engagement. We're a little out of shape.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: We need to get in conference shape again, but it's been a hell of a lot of fun.
Chad: It's been amazing. It has been amazing. Let's go ahead. Let's. Let's jump... We'll talk more about unleash.
Joel: Let's suck it up. Be professionals.
Chad: Whole block of unleashed...
Joel: And do some shout outs.
Chad: Do some shout outs. I'm gonna do a block of LinkedIn shout outs. You ready for this.
Joel: LinkedIn love.
Chad: James Cleaver on LinkedIn. Here's a quote. It's what he posted.
Joel: Yep.
Chad: "I have to mute unleash and chad and cheese. The FOMO is killing me." Next, we have Stephen McGrath on LinkedIn. Quote, "I square to the good Lord, if someone doesn't get me one of those t-shirts ASAP, you're both gonna be in trouble when I see you next."
SFX: Welcome to all things Scottish. Our slogan is, If it's not Scottish, it's crap.
Chad: And then Joe Stubblebine.
Joel: Stubbs.
Chad: I'm gonna save this one for last. Joe posted on LinkedIn, quote, "You've got to hand it to Chad and Cheese. They're... The Chad and Cheese podcast is a master class in staying relevant." This is where I tear up a little bit 'cause Joe was one of the original listeners. I mean he was almost like an advisor at one point where he would call in and say, "Hey, look...
Joel: When we sat down and said maybe 50 people will listen to this and he was one of them.
Chad: He was one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so he was incredibly helpful early on. He's been listening and watching in the background and every now and again he comes up for air and he gives us little gems like this so.
Joel: And helpful in many ways because he was critical.
Chad: Oh God, yeah.
Joel: And sometimes your critics are your best friends. If you listen to them and take their advice early on, I remember him saying you guys should, you know, snap it up a little bit. Don't worry about the F-Bombs and then taking people to task.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: And we listened. So. Joe, thank you.
Chad: Yeah, we had the usual HR kind of like line coming into us saying, oh wait a minute, you guys need to back it down.
Joel: Oh, you can't do that.
Chad: You're challenging people, you're using the F-Bomb, you're doing these... You just can't do that. And Joe was one of the only guys there was a handful that said, "You know what? Fuck them. Dial it up. Dial it up, because that's what the people want. That's what they're thinking. That's what they want." And when we went to our first SHRM talent, where all the old SHRM HR ladies go.
Joel: The suits.
Chad: Yes, they came up to us and they said the exact same thing. You're saying what we've been thinking for 30 plus years. For God's sakes, keep it up.
Joel: Yeah.
Chad: And thanks to people like Joe for the support.
Joel: Thanks for all the love. We'll get to the actual on site love that we've been getting. But thanks for the virtual love.
Chad: Yes.
Joel: From everywhere. From Scotland to where the hell is Joey Stubbs now? On a boat off of the Italian coast.
Chad: He could be in Budapest. He could be in Italy somewhere. Greece? Who the fuck knows? But that guy's... He gets around.
Joel: Well, Chad, my shout out goes to a special person in my life.
Chad: Oh, yeah?
Joel: When I say Jerry Springer, what comes to mind?
Chad: Cincinnati, Ohio. And who the baby daddy?
Joel: Jerry. Jerry. Yes. Former mayor of Cincinnati.
Chad: Yes.
Joel: I believe he was caught with a prostitute, which is why he was no longer the Cincinnati mayor.
Chad: Big surprise.
Joel: And obviously most famous for The Jerry Springer Show.
Chad: Yes.
Joel: Which in college, while you were battling the communists, I was in a fraternity house with a bunch of guys in our underwear watching Jerry Springer. And years later, I met Jerry in Cleveland, got a picture taken with him. It's out there somewhere. I'll find it. And I said, "Jerry, you got me through college." And he said, "Well, don't send me the bill." And that was my Jerry Springer moment. But Jerry, sadly, has passed away this week at the ripe young age of 79 years old.
Chad: Wow.
Joel: Rest in peace, Jerry. I like to think that Jerry had a little influence on this show. We're not throwing chairs. We're not revealing who the baby daddy is, but we do talk a lot of shit. So, Jerry, this is for you. Shout out.
Chad: For your side of the show. We'll say that's Jerry Springer. Okay, Let's go ahead. Let's jump into events again. We'll talk about Unleash here in a minute, but we have more events coming kids, this is exciting. It's pretty amazing. Our next one is gonna be an iCIMS Inspire Coronado Beach early part of May go to Chadcheese.com/events if you're an iCIMS customer I don't know prospect or maybe a vendor who just wants to come to enjoy check it out Chadcheese.com.
Joel: Vegas to So-Cal Life doesn't suck.
Chad: Does not suck.
Joel: And then you go to Portugal.
Chad: Yeah.
[laughter]
Joel: So I did all the birthdays.
Chad: Oh really.
Joel: Last week for the rest of the month.
Chad: Good. Okay.
Joel: But Plum was here at the show.
Chad: Yes. Oh, my God.
Joel: And they were very supportive.
Chad: Yes.
Joel: I just wanna give a quick shout out for them.
Chad: They fed you, that's crazy.
Joel: For sponsoring.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: The birthday segment of the show.
[music]
Joel: In case you missed it, everybody.
Chad: Oh, what?
Joel: We were in Las Vegas for the Unleashed America Conference this week.
Joel: You did not miss it. James Cleaver had to mute us.
Chad: We're talking PowerPoints. Plug-in software and pour me another one. Chad, I need a nap. What are your thoughts and takeaways from our time in Vegas?
Joel: I got to say the new venue, as I'd said prior, I'm really excited to see how it plays, right. Because MGM actually has a pretty good setup, but the Seizures Forum is much more business. It's much more focused. The high roller is there for events. They had the night summit. It was pretty awesome. And this is just the first year, they're actually gonna expand next year. I thought the setup, just the venue itself was pretty amazing. What'd you think?
Joel: Yeah. The venue for sure. I love that it was... So typically in Vegas, it's at a hotel.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: And you end up staying in the hotel.
Chad: Everybody.
Joel: Because it's just a pain in the ass. This one is located where you're basically right at an alley of bars, in and out burger...
Chad: Hotels.
Joel: Gordon Ramsay Fish & Chips. So you can walk down this alley.
Chad: Flamingos right there.
Joel: Yeah. And then at the end of the alley, you've got the Vegas Strip, is at your fingertips.
Chad: Yep.
Joel: So I love that the location was great. The Ferris Wheel is a cool visual.
Chad: It is.
Joel: The hotels that we stayed in were right where they needed to be. So location-wise it was fantastic. I think you and I talked about how much, how far this conference has come in three years.
Chad: Yes.
Joel: And they've been a juggernaut in Europe.
Chad: Not even consecutive years, that's the thing.
Joel: Correct.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: There was a pandemic in there. [chuckle] But I remember us talking when they said, "We're gonna come to America." sort of scoffing and there's so much competition and HR Tech and for Mark and his team in three years to bring this saying to as big of a apex predator as it is, is really, really impressive. And I think the other conferences need to look out, keep an eye at the back of their head because Unleash is coming. [laughter] I'm equally excited about Rec Fest.
Chad: Oh fuck.
Joel: Taking their first step into the United States. These two European...
Chad: Americans got to step their shit up.
Joel: America's gotta step it up.
Chad: Here's the interesting thing. HR Tech was bought by a European company, a UK company. So we might see a little twist this year. Maybe not this year, maybe next year. But it is interesting.
Joel: So you are saying like HR Tech Euro?
Chad: I don't know.
Joel: Europe.
Chad: Yeah. Who knows? But there might be a red light district somewhere. Who knows. [laughter] So we got here, we had a chance to be in the Work human booth four hours yesterday. Kissing hands, shaking babies, giving away t-shirts. I appreciate everybody who stop by. We're gonna have some great interviews that are gonna be popping out.
Joel: And before that, we're on stage with Tex Colonel.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: Talking vibe build or partner. That was a great segment, which I think we got on record and we'll push that out as a podcast or no?
Chad: Yes.
Joel: Okay. So be on the lookout for that. We got to talk about the Tatio party.
Chad: Yes.
Joel: They're your homeboys and girls. Talk about it.
Chad: Yeah. So, Tatio, little startup out of Israel, two female founders, they are incredibly electric. I don't know how other to say it. Right. I mean they are just incredibly ele...
Joel: Ball of energy.
Chad: I don't know if it's the Israeli culture, and they're all born bred military for the most part, but they are on it. And this is the second party that they've had with us. And this one doubled the last one and we blew out the last one. So it was a great time. We had over I think 125 people who registered, we had over 80 show up.
Joel: Wow.
Chad: That kind of ratio of engagement to actual attendance is pretty fucking awesome.
Joel: And it wasn't easy to get to where we were.
Chad: I'm humbled it was not in the same place.
Joel: No.
Chad: People had to walk 15 minutes.
Joel: So I'm incredibly humbled by the experience. Yes. Love the Tatio girls.
Chad: They're amazing.
Joel: They wear Yellow Jackets, [laughter] which makes me think I'm in Cantons Football Hall of Fame every time that I go, or the old Monday Night football with Howard Cosell and the Yellow Jackets. So it's a nice fashion touch and makes me miss football season quite a bit. But I was saying that this little podcast is on the verge of becoming bigger than... Like a life of its own. And it's incredibly humbling, but it's obviously a thirst that needed to be quenched in our industry. And we are happy to tap the keg and pour the beers people.
Chad: Yes. So then also let's talk about the Evan White experience, shall we?
Joel: Sure.
Chad: We went with hiring...
Joel: Is that talent tok's new name or is this a whole. [laughter]
Chad: So hiring branch had us on day zero after the vendor summit up in the high roller. Yes. That's a Ferris Wheel that... I think the Apex is like over 500 feet in the air. Takes a half an hour for a full turn. We had a bar in there, we had about 25 to 30 people. It was a blast.
Joel: It was a who's who of HR influencers.
Chad: It was a blast.
Joel: For sure. And I love. [laughter] Last call takes on a whole new meaning.
Chad: Oh God. [laughter]
Joel: When you're on the clock and you can see it towards the end. Slowly coming. The rush to the bar was like a college frat party. It was very entertaining.
Chad: It was great.
Joel: But yeah, thanks to hiring Branch. That was fantastic. And then after our party, we did the toque a little bit. I didn't know what to expect. It wasn't a really official, official venue type thing.
Chad: No. Yes. Very informal.
Joel: It was a little bit like.
Chad: Let's smoke weed.
Joel: We were selling fake Rolexes [laughter] and on the carpet on the street, and then when the cops come, you roll it up.
Chad: Okay. Yeah.
Joel: And then you run out.
Chad: I gotta tell a story though. So we're all sitting there because Evan had to go get the weed and then we see him rolling up now Evan has a Chad and Cheese t-shirt on, has this very light jacket. Right. And he looks like he's coming straight from Miami. Straight from Miami.
Joel: Don Johnson is missing jacket.
Chad: Miami Vice. He's walking up, he has this leather Satchel, [laughter] like he was a bank robber in the 1930s. [laughter] He gets up to the point where we are, he drops the satchel, opens it, pulls out a blunt, lights it, takes a puff. Says who's next? [laughter] That was fucking baller.
[laughter]
Joel: Bootlegging and balling is what that was.
Chad: That was baller.
Joel: Wow.
Chad: Yes.
Joel: Evan. Love you man. Love you man.
[laughter]
Joel: So we're in the middle of everything at the Bellagio, watching the water, people enjoying it at certain levels. A lot of curiosity seekers. And then we went to the Museum of Selfies, which is a thing that your wife apparently loved.
Chad: Yes. She did. And they had selfie experts on hand because...
Joel: Selfie experts.
Chad: Yes. Because they have all these different areas where you can take pictures. And there are different modes on your phone that are better for certain selfies.
Joel: Yep.
Chad: So depending on what area you're in, like the exhibit area, they would actually show you which one, like Slow-mo, or Boomerang or whatever the hell, and they would show you how to do it. And it was really interesting. So you didn't just go and get some really cool selfies, you had somebody actually teach you how to use your fucking phone. [laughter]
Joel: Yeah. Unfortunately my flip phone was incompatible with many of the selfie.
Chad: Yes, no. The Nokia. [laughter]
Joel: Yeah.
Chad: No, the Nokia.
[laughter]
Joel: The Blackberry wasn't working for me on that one. And then we had, I don't know, the courage... The liquid courage to then go have more drinks at O'Sheas... Or was there something in between... Oh, In-N-Out.
Chad: Yes.
Joel: We went to In-N-Out, didn't we? Yes.
Chad: My first time.
Joel: No shit.
Chad: My first time.
Joel: You are living now my friend.
[laughter]
Joel: And please tell me you didn't get the veggie, like the lettuce burger.
Chad: I did the... I did a double animal style.
Joel: Nice.
Chad: Yep. I had to go. I'm gonna go.
Joel: Is the hype... Is it up to the hype or do you think it was... It's...
Chad: I think it was really... I love a smash burger no matter what, the Steak 'n Shakes. Yeah. It was good.
Joel: You'll be back.
Chad: It was really good.
Joel: You'll be back.
Chad: Yeah, 'cause there's a possibility.
Joel: Cool. Late night at In-N-Out.
Chad: [laughter] There's a possibility.
Joel: And then, we went to the PandoLogic Museum of Selfies. And then we went and got more drinks.
Chad: Yes.
Joel: And I think that was the end of our night for the...
Chad: That was it. Yeah.
Joel: Most part.
Chad: Yeah, yeah. Then up again in the SAP booth, the UNLEASH SAP booth.
Joel: Four interviews today.
Chad: Four today.
Joel: And the weekly.
Chad: I am interviewed the fuck out dude.
Joel: Yeah. After this I think we're done.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: For a while.
Chad: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joel: Yeah.
Chad: No, it's good. It's good. But I also have to give somewhat of a pseudo-shoutout to Pando and my lovely wife, the Disability Solutions. So they actually launched a new product called PandoDIVERSITY. Pretty close to this one. Here's a quote, "PandoDIVERSITY provides access to a robust network of publishers specializing in diverse and underrepresented candidates such as women, minorities, individuals with disabilities, and veterans. Additionally, the use of AI-based programmatic recruitment technology helps to automate and optimize hiring campaigns, remove bias in the recruitment funnel and enhance data transparency." Again, I'm biased on this kids, but I know what the fuck I'm talking about.
Chad: Most organizations come up with this, and they have literally nothing that is outcomes-oriented. Julie's team literally every single day does nothing but get individuals with disabilities hired into major organizations. And just Pepsi in itself, I think have 3000 plus with higher retention rates than the normal cohort of non-disabled individuals. 20% of those are disabled veterans. So to be able to see something that actually fucking works, has outcomes retention, all those things, and then to twist new programmatic technology into it, I'm pretty excited about it.
Joel: Terry Baker, CEO at PandoLogic told me it took three years to develop this product. So your endorsement is great and his time commitment to this issue is...
Chad: Yes. It means something.
Joel: Is worthy of another...
Chad: Yeah, it means something.
Joel: Not just a pseudo-shoutout, Chad, a real live, legit shoutout is what that deserve. All right. The news keeps rolling on kids. We'll take a quick break, get a refill and be right back.
Chad: Beer, beer here.
Joel: Sir Richard and Beverly are back, Chad. CV Wallet, a skills-based hiring platform that utilizes Web3 and AI Technologies has raised $1.1 million in an angel round. The startup plans to use the funding to further develop its job seeker tools and employer products and assessment provider partnership program. CV Wallet's mission is to create a fair, more efficient and trusted hiring ecosystem by bringing together job seekers, employers, and assessors, that might be the key word, to enable skills-based sourcing at scale. Chad, we love us some Richard and Beverly, but give us your objective take on this news.
Chad: I don't have an objective take, first and foremost.
Joel: It's impossible? You can't do it?
Chad: I love Richard and Beverly. These guys, they know where the gap is. Right? And they are not taking the easy road in trying to fill this gap. This is also another one of my predictions that came true, thank you very much, for 2023, I might've seen this coming, I don't know. [laughter]
Joel: You might've had a few pints...
Chad: I might've...
Joel: Yeah, and then got to this decision. Yeah.
Chad: I might've seen this coming. But here's the thing, the resume sucks, we've all known that. But then everybody says, "Yeah, but what else are we gonna use?" which is a great question. What else are we going to use? Well, something that is yours that you own as an individual, that is portable, so you don't have to go through, Indeed or Monster or any other website to be able to apply or go get your stuff to apply. You've got this, it's yours. Right? You dictate how long somebody can actually utilize this information, how long they can't. Not to mention all the credentialing, the assessments, everything is within this actual wallet. It's not spread all over the fucking web like it is today. So if you go get an assessment here, an assessment there, a background check over here, everything's all over the place.
Joel: Yep.
Chad: And you gotta try to pull that into the applicant tracking system. No. Pull that shit into the fucking blockchain in the CV Wallet and away you go. The hard part about this, I don't think is adoption because it'll happen white label wise, behind the scenes. I think the hard part is, the hard work is getting all the assessment, background check, everybody to say, "Look, the old way of you making money, which you still do fairly well is going to go away, now it's time to adopt something new."
Joel: Yep. So, here's what we found out early about Sir Richard. He sold his business to indeed.
Chad: It was Richard and Beverly Get it together. They're a duo.
Joel: Early on we didn't know Beverly.
Chad: That's because she's the smart one behind the scenes.
Joel: My point here is early on what we knew.
Chad: She's the smart one behind the scenes.
Joel: We knew that he had probably made a little bit of cash. We knew that he drove a Maserati. That's just about all we knew about him in our first conversation.
Chad: Aston Martin.
Joel: So let's assume that he has a little bit of money.
[laughter]
Chad: And what I like about this...
Joel: An Aston Martin, a little bit of money.
Joel: Is how low the round was. What it tells me is that they understand this is a long game.
Chad: Oh, Yeah.
Joel: Everyone who hears Web3 blockchain, whatever is like, "what! It's gonna take some time for this to unfold."
Chad: Yes.
Joel: So the low round tells me that he understands this is a long game. We talked about LinkedIn partnering with Clear to make profiles legitimate. There's gonna be a lot of competition around this space to make some leverage to be successful. So I don't know how this is gonna turn out. I'm gonna watch this and you are as well, but there's gonna be a lot of competition to make profiles legitimate. We're seeing the blue check at Twitter. We're seeing LinkedIn partnering with Clear to do this. Is CV Wallet gonna be the thing? Are they gonna be bought to have someone bigger than them have that as the thing? I'd have enough faith in them that this is going to go somewhere. But it's also a long game. Don't expect a final chapter to be written for years to come.
Chad: So the whole LinkedIn-Clear partnership is nothing but validation for what these guys are doing. Number one. Number two, it's a Band-aid because they're not not going to the extent of creating the infrastructure that's needed for this industry. Clear was built for something entirely different. So I love the signal from the market in LinkedIn saying we need something, but that's not it. So, good for these guys and I don't know, at least I have not heard of anybody taking cash, that's looking to do the same thing CV Wallet is.
Joel: Yeah. I want to see Indeed do something. I'd like to see even a ZipRecruiter or somebody to do something. But yeah. If you're bullish on blockchain, this is something you need to keep your eye on.
Chad: Here's the problem though. If ZIP does something or Indeed does something. Nobody else is going to use their shit. They won't allow an Indeed blockchain resume to actually come into their system like an applicant track system. So remember iSIMS, how much they fucking hate Indeed. Right. So it's one of those things where it's gotta be a third party. It's gotta be somebody who's not attached. Then what happens is they get all those connections, they get the infrastructure built, and then you see somebody big come buy them.
Joel: Yeah. There's people that are still putting money in Chase Bank and Wells Fargo.
Chad: I'm not saying it's bad. What I'm saying is the trust will not be there if it's a big name. Like in Indeed.
Joel: And, I think crypto, blockchain has a trust issue as well.
Chad: Yeah. Crypto, I'm gonna separate crypto from blockchain.
Joel: I think a lot of people don't. I think a lot of people put it in a bucket of new stuff that scares me.
Chad: I don't think that they're gonna sell this as blockchain. I just think that they're gonna sell...
Joel: Web3.
Chad: Yes. They're just gonna sell it as Web3 and here are the capabilities of the product.
Joel: So perhaps the biggest hurdle is gonna be perception and they have very little to do with that.
Chad: Yes. Just not saying blockchain.
[laughter]
Joel: We may still say blockchain just like we still say chatbot. Sorry.
[laughter]
Joel: Sorry again, All right. Let's get to Jobcase, word is podcast sponsor. Jobcase is struggling after we reported about layoffs in February. Word is the ax has fallen again costing some 50 people their job at the self-proclaimed LinkedIn for everybody that's not on LinkedIn. Chad, Jobcase has raised almost $150,000,000. What's your take on the news?
Chad: My take is that the first cut wasn't deep enough. They did layoffs.
Joel: Fred's too nice.
Chad: It is hard as a guy as empathetic as Fred is.
Joel: So sweetheart.
Chad: Not to mention he understands optics. Right?
Joel: Yeah. Yeah.
Chad: So if you can try to get away with their first cut, then fuck Yeah. Let's do it. Right. But in this case, I mean they actually dropped some pretty big talent, one of them being Ben Koons. Right. I mean the guys will, should and would find a job in five minutes. Right. But I think a couple of things, we just did a podcast earlier or earlier this week called Tech Debt, right?
Joel: Yep.
Chad: Jobcase has been around for a very long time. They just bought recruitology. There's a lot of tech that could maybe not or will be integrated.
Joel: Yep.
Chad: There's a lot of work to be done and in this market we see Indeed floundering with new models. Right. And them having to backtrack. From CPA, CPSA, I hope it's one of... It's my hope that, they get a chance to really focus heavily on their good to market and then just start to squeeze it. Because I personally, I think Jobcase is one of the players who could alleviate a lot of the pressure on most of these companies from using Indeed. And if we get more of that along with programmatic players and whatnot, if we get that, then Indeed loses power. And these companies are not forced into bullshit moves. Like calling CPC something entirely different and charging 10 times more for it. Right? Yeah. So we need the Jobcases of this fucking world to be fucking strong and go out there and alleviate pressure on the market.
Joel: We talk a lot on the show about how companies generally don't fail because they took too little money.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: They fail because they took too much money. And that along with timing, has really put the screws to Jobcase to make money quickly, to be that Indeed... Or LinkedIn. For a lot of people that don't use LinkedIn very quickly, it's a tough business. The job board business is really, really hard. From ZipRecruiters, Share price to dice, to even indeed having challenges, as we've talked about on the show, this is a hard business and they've taken a lot of money, they're investors that want to see growth quickly, and it clearly hasn't happened. So headcount, restructuring is the first step. To your question, where does the business itself go? They have 100 million profiles of people on the site that are looking for work. You should be able to monetize that in some form or fashion. I agree on Fred, total sweetheart, great guy, smart people that are there, but this is a case of a lot of money, bad timing. Let's see if they can turn the Titanic around and if not, well you know what happened to the Titanic.
[laughter]
Chad: Yes. No, we do know what happened to the Titanic. Yes.
Joel: And just like this beer sank, I'm gonna need another beer.
Chad: Thank you.
Joel: And we'll be right back. And we're back.
Chad: We're back?
Joel: And unbeknownst to us.
Chad: What?
Joel: We have a special guest who neither of us know, but she wanted to know what we were doing and let us know that it's her birthday.
Chad: What are these microphones for? Yes. And she's also in the industry. So what's your name miss?
Joel: So give us your name, where you're from and a little Twitter bio.
SFX: I don't know if I need to disclose that right now. Just kidding. [laughter] My name is Ivana Zirojevic. I'm the CEO and founder of Ren Head.
Joel: CEO.
Chad: Hello.
Joel: Nice.
Chad: I love it.
[laughter]
SFX: And I'm a local, by the way.
Chad: Happy birthday, by the way. I understand, it's your birthday, it's your 30th. You are looking smashing for 30.
SFX: I love you.
[laughter]
Chad: The youngest billionaire out there. Okay, well...
Joel: Well thank you for stopping by.
SFX: Thank you.
Joel: We appreciate it. CEOs continue to lose their minds over the work-from-home issue.
Chad: Go fucking figure.
Joel: This week, real estate billionaire, Sam Zell, said, "Work from home is a bunch of bullshit." And added.
[laughter]
Joel: "One of the biggest lies in the world is that people working from home are more productive than people working in the office."
Chad: What an asshole.
Joel: An oped and business insider entitled, the real reason bosses are freaked out by remote work proclaimed, "CEOs might as well just say it. They think working from home is for sissies." The beatings will continue until morale improves. Chad, what's your take on this never-ending CEO assault on remote work?
Chad: These little wimpy assholes calling anybody a fucking sissy in the first place, that just, to me makes me laugh. To be able to play that bully sissy card...
Joel: Jeff Bezos will fight you.
Chad: That is...
Joel: Jeff Bezos.
Chad: Well that's fine. That's fine. He's probably all hopped up on Mountain Dew and shit anyway. What a piece of shit. What a piece of shit. One CEO said, he actually remarked, also mentioned an unnamed employee who had decided to sell his family dog in order to comply with the back-to-office order, and that was something that he got behind. And he felt like that was the kind of a commitment that an employee should make. I'm a dog guy.
Joel: You are a dog guy.
Chad: I would beat the shit out of my CEO if he told me to get rid of my fucking dog. Luckily right now I don't have a CEO.
[laughter]
Joel: Yeah. So, you know how I always say the answer to all your questions is money?
Chad: Yes.
Joel: How did Sam Zell make his billions?
Chad: How?
Joel: I'll take commercial real estate for 400. So shocking that someone who made billions of dollars in...
Chad: In real estate.
Joel: In commercial real estate would want everyone to go back to the office. Sam Zell, I get it. What troubles me is that six months ago I was like, "We're never going back to work the way it was. Layoffs happened. CEOs are getting really chirpy and chesty about how work from home is bullshit." The pendulum is swinging to get back in the office and it'll be a lot of fun to talk about and watch on this podcast. Does it go back? Do the workers unite and send it back to the work-from-home movement? Is hybrid where we settle? Does the fraud continue to boil? We will be watching.
Chad: I think we underestimated the power of old white dudes, 'cause they continue to play fucking oppression and bully games. It's bullshit autonomy, not micromanage is the king of the day. And we learned that through remote and hybrid working. So I think, and this is during one of our conversations earlier with a chief expert at SAP. He said that the companies who demand this are gonna look like the iron fist types of rulers and people are just not gonna wanna work for them. They're gonna lose the best talent. And it's already happening.
Joel: Well, there's work from home, and there's me who can't wait to get home to lay in my bed and take a nap. And with that from Las Vegas, we out.
Chad: We out.
Outro: Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad And Cheese Podcast. Or maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back. Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell. Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey, or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckleheads instead. Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt. But save some soap because you'll be back. Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.