top of page
Indeed Wave.PNG

Clovers Buys, Walmart Spins and TikTok Bans

Agree to disagree. Maybe that should be the title of this week's show, because there's a lot of verbal sparring this week. Aside from seeing eye-to-eye that the recent acquisition of TalVista by makes sense, a game of Who'd Ya' Rather between Skillit and Grazzy goes sideways. So does whether or not TikTok is on its way to becoming illegal to use in the U.S. And don't even get us started on minimum wage increases at Walmart. At least we end the week in agreement that interviewing 3D avatars is both cool and creepy as well. And you thought Tengai the Recruiting Robot haunting your dreams for the last couple of years was scary! You ain't seen nothing yet.


Intro: Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel Cheesman: Oh, yeah. Who's ready for their Jazz Bath. Hi kids, you're listening to The Chad and Cheese Podcast. This is your co-host, Joel "Pig Skin" Cheesman.

Chad Sowash: This is Chad "Public Comment" Sowash.

JC: And on this week's show, Who Would You Rather, TikTok under pressure, and get ready to interview MetaHumans. Let's do this. Dude, are you ready for some football this weekend? I'm going Scentsy. The Mahomes ankle injury is a big one for me.

CS: That's a hard one.

JC: I think the Eagles, I just can't get on the Purdy train. I don't know, I can't do it. So Eagles, Eagles, Bengals, Super Bowl.

CS: Yeah. The Bengals are definitely playing a hell of a lot better, especially after last week, and they just owned Buffalo away. Just owned them. So yeah, and then Mahomes, it depends on how mobile he is. But yeah, I'd love to see Cincinnati, especially after their start. They had such a shitty start. They went to the Super Bowl last year, came out of the pipe this year, just horrible, and then they just started killing it so they found their groove.

JC: The Browns gave them a whooping just for the record.

CS: Where are The Browns right now? Good question.

JC: Yeah, they're in Cabo or Cancun, one of the two.


CS: So yeah, so yeah. The Eagles would be really cool to see. Yeah, it's really hard to see Purdy as a Super Bowl quarterback. But I mean, it's happened before.

JC: He's got a hell of a team around him.

CS: And got a hell of a defense, that's for sure.

JC: Yeah, yeah. He won't be carrying them into the Super Bowl that's for sure.

CS: No.

JC: Speaking of Super Bowl. Shoutouts, I have no idea what that connection is, but it's the only segue I had. Shoutout for me. Joe Wilkie and Jenny Sciacca were in the giving mood this week. Joe, Joe sent me a nice bottle of Wild Turkey which was delivered right before the snowpocalypse here in the Midwest which went down.

CS: A nice bottle of Wild Turkey.

JC: Rare breed, baby. No. No.

CS: I've never heard anybody say that. Oh, okay. It's rare breed. Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. It's rare breed. It's rare breed.

[overlapping conversation]

JC: Get on board. Get on board, Sowash. And Jenny, who works for Disney sent both of us apparently an Iron Man t-shirt with our names on the back of them, so that was really nice.

CS: Like we're twinsies or something?

JC: Yeah. A little disappointed that Disney couldn't foot the bill for at least something that wasn't a Gildan 100% cotton beefy tee. But I'll take it. I'll take a free tee.

CS: Yeah, it says The Chad and Cheese Podcast on the back, so how can you hate that? What is it... Let me see what it says here. It says, "Invincible The Chad and Cheese Podcast." Yes.


JC: Chad, I'm kind of a beefy guy myself. So when I double beefy, it's really beefy. So I just, I try to stay stressed away from the two beefy combo there on my t-shirts. But what are you gonna do?

CS: Oh, that's amazing. So yeah, going from the Iron Man Chad and Cheese t-shirt to, we're over a thousand episodes now. It took us less than six years.

JC: Holy cow!


CS: We're averaging about 14 podcasts a month. Yeah, thanks to the listeners for asking for more. And yeah, thanks for the sponsors for being there and actually powering this bitch.

JC: I think it was Joseph Stalin who said, "Quantity is a quality on its own." Of course, he was speaking about the mass deaths of young men in World War II who had to go to the front. But in this case, podcasting, quantity has its own quality and dammit, if we're not quality.

CS: It's a different type of battlefield when we're talking about podcasting.


JC: You think?

CS: Yeah. I know.

JC: Speaking of battlefields and quality, our friends at Polywork, our listeners might remember that they were nominated last week for the Product of the Year by Product Hunt. A pretty well known...

CS: Oh, they won. They won.

JC: Pretty well known platform for companies. Anyway, they didn't beat out ChatGPT...

CS: What?

JC: Which shocks everyone for the best product.


JC: However, they did win a Golden Kitty Award. A Golden Kitty Award, I guess the cat is the Product Hunt mascot. Anyway, they did win for the Creator Economy category on the announcement. Polywork CEO said, "We couldn't have done this without Chad and Cheese." No, I'm kidding.


JC: He actually said, "We can't thank you enough for voting for us and for the amazing support you've given us over the years." Pretty standard vanilla CEO bullshit, but either way, Polywork.

CS: As usual. Yeah.

JC: It's an award. It's a Golden Kitty, something everyone is at some point in their life after. Congratulations. Shoutout to you.

CS: Speaking of Golden Kitty. On this day in 1980, Prince made his TV debut on American Bandstand with the song, I Wanna Be Your Lover.


JC: So when I was in Chicago in December, they had the Prince Experience that my wife and I went to. And memorabilia, the motorcycle from Purple Rain...

CS: With nice, big ass fairing on it. Oh, yeah.

JC: The bathtub from the When Doves Cry video. So if you're a Chappelle and Prince fan, and I know a lot of our listeners are, you know the Chappelle skit where Prince plays basketball and then makes pancakes for everybody. There's literally, there's a collage in the Prince Experience of all these pictures of Prince. There's a picture of him playing basketball. So this story is apparently true. And the dude has a good form in the picture. So somewhere along the lines, Prince in high heels, learned to hoop. And there's a picture that's proof at the Prince Experience if you ever get a chance to check that out. But Prince, definitely good stuff. Definitely good stuff. Well, also good stuff, Chad...

CS: Yes.

JC: Free shit from us. We say it every week, but if you haven't hit up, click the free link giving us your information, you're missing out on free t-shirts from JobGet, free Rum with Plum if it's your birthday that month, free beer from our friends at Aspen Tech Labs, whiskey. They each get a bottle from you and me, it's a Chad choice it's a Cheese Choice. That's from our friends at Textkernel. But you can't win it if you're not in it so head out to, click free link and sign up. And also while you're listening, leave us a review, won't ya?

CS: Well, that being said, we're talking about alcohol. Big shoutout to Mitch Gerson. Mitch sent me a bottle of Nob Creek bourbon with a big Gerson Agency sticker over the label. I cracked it open, I poured it over a big rock, and noticed something was awry.

JC: What?

CS: It was a smoked maple bourbon. Dude, that's two weeks in a row. Two weeks in a row. Wala sent me the Maple Canadian whiskey which I actually boiled down into syrup because it was so sweet and that was delicious. And now Mitch sends a Knob Creek version. It wasn't as sweet. I think it's gonna be great with Old Fashioneds but what is up with the maple whiskeys? Are they all the rage now? Did I miss something?

JC: They are not all the rage, for sure. Talk of Prince and pancakes means there might be more maple syrup coming your way, but no. That is an odd choice. And he's not Canadian, is he?

CS: No. No, no. He's American, yeah.

JC: Equally strange. I got nothing but I got birthday announcements, though. Alright, so celebrating another year around the sun this week, let's hear it for our birthdays. We love...

SFX: Happy birthday!

JC: And you can win Rum with Plum, as I mentioned, if it's your birthday. You're signed up for free stuff, you could win a bottle. For this week celebrating a birthday, we got Tony Lioi, Stephanie Krishnan, Matthew Miller, Ed Zetusky who actually was the rum with plum winner this month. Lynette Phillips, our friend Adam Gordon.

Speaker 4: Welcome to all things Scottish. Our slogan is, "If it not Scottish, it's crap!"

JC: Dan Sabatino, Gloria Okino, and JZ Josh Zywien. All celebrating birthdays this week.

CS: Very nice.

SFX: Happy birthday!

CS: Excellent. Excellent, excellent. Well, I have an update for the New York City Department of Consumer and Worker Protection has announced that it will postpone enforcement of a new law intended to regulate the use of automated employment decision tools until April 15th, 2023.

JC: What?

CS: That's right. Yeah, so New York City had this wonderful law that they were putting in place around AI decision-making tools for hiring, those types of things, and they received so many comments, public comments, that they're gonna go ahead and put that on hold so that they can address the comments, have a second hearing. And to be quite frank, I don't think this hurts anything. This does nothing but give the government more of a cushion and say, "Look, we even gave you more time," right?

JC: Yeah.

CS: So, when they start enforcing this, employers better be ready. You can lawyer-up all you want, you're playing into their whole scheme of things. "Oh, you want more time? Oh, we'll give you more time. Now, let's see you fuck up." So, kids, if you're using automated decision hiring tools, it doesn't matter. You should be auditing your process no matter what. Audit your shit, make sure you're not doing biased, stupid shit, and that's from your friends at the Chad & Cheese.

JC: It's time to belt-up, people, is what Chad's saying. You better be ready for the government to come after your ass. Chad, where are we going this year? We're back in the world. I know it's hard to believe in January, but we're gonna be back out soon.

CS: We're gonna be back out. We're gonna be back out. Unleash America is happening in April at Caesar's Forum in Las Vegas. That's right, kids. They actually changed the venue. I love a little MGM, but when I took a look at Caesar's Forum, this is off the fucking chain. I can't wait. If you wanna find out more, just go to, click on "Events" and definitely register. If you want more information about the prospect of sponsoring at Unleash America, go to Hit us up directly and we can put you in connection with the right people.

Speaker 5: That escalated quickly.

CS: Then last week, we have the official. Yes, that's right, the official announcement of Recfest USA. It's our favorite talent acquisition carnival, kids. That's right. It's coming to Nashville, Tennessee in September. We were able to crack the code of discounts, as well. Oh, yeah. That's right. We have a discount code. It's gonna be 50% off. We have the early, early bird rate with Chad & Cheese. You can use the discount code at of ChadandCheese, all one word, "ChadandCheese." Or, you can go to, click on "Events," go down to "Recfest." Click on that link and it automatically populates it for you. That takes your ticket from $200, that's a two-day event $200 ticket for attendees, to $100. Actually, $99, but $100.


JC: Damn. Unleashed and Recfest.

CS: Sexy, yes.

JC: And discount codes. It just doesn't get any better than that.

CS: Topics.

JC: Did Prince ever perform in Vegas? Anyway...


JC: Let's have a layoff update shall we.

SFX: Layoffs.

JC: Alright, industry start-up Karat, that's K-A-R-A-T the Seattle-based company that helps companies conduct technical interviews has laid off 47 employees, reportedly 10 to 15% of its staff. Additionally, Coach-Hub and Scorrow, both in our space have let go around 10% of their teams, higher profile layoffs, this week include IBM canning 3900 employees or about 2% of its staff, combined Amazon and Microsoft are laying off a total of 28000 employees. There have been some bumps in the road, though Chad, Google laid off 12000 employees or about 6% of its workforce, as many of our listeners know. However, this included a married couple with a four-month-old baby...

CS: Damn.

JC: Both were on parental leave. Ouch. We wish everyone good luck in their endeavors of finding new opportunities...

CS: Yeah, it's interesting, I mean Microsoft, they cut 10000 after hiring about 75,000 since 2020, Meta laid off 11,000. After hiring about 30,000 during the pandemic. Good news. I mean, again, so you take a look at it in total, yeah, they had some irresponsible hiring those the good news, the US Government has actually created a, because they are hiring tech. So they've actually increased their salaries on that and they're focusing on Telework options and remote work. So fuck you, Jamie Dimon, go to the US government. Find yourself a job.

SFX: That escalated quickly.

JC: Also Chad If anyone out there, listened to our European show this week, they know that we played an extreme version of buy or sell.

CS: Yes.

JC: Meaning a lot of startups are getting a lot of seed funding, which means a lot of tech people will land on their feet at some of these startups, which we think will become some of the next big things in the world, so it all works out in the end, I guess.

CS: And talking about, like world as opposed to just the US, there are the country layoff rankings, and our friends over at Lanza shared some research on how countries are treating laid off employees, best to the worst. The top 10, US was not there. And this is all around notice periods and severance, so pretty much you've heard all the stories of people getting nixed via text message in the middle of the night here in the US, so we actually made the worst list and it was Puerto Rico was number one. The US is number two. So really, the US is number one. Yeah, we suck at laying people off 'cause we just don't give a shit.

JC: Europe, on the other hand...

SFX: Europe has a bunch of countries in it.

JC: Alright. Let's get to our friends at Clovers and TalVista, they had a little marriage this week. Recruitment software platform Clovers, has agreed to acquire TalVista, a developer of a diversity and inclusion platform that aims to reduce bias in the hiring process, terms of the deal were not disclosed, the acquisition promises to help recruiters reach their diversity, equity and inclusion goals by providing solutions for attracting, reviewing and short-listing candidates, conducting interviews and applying data to enable efficient hiring decisions. The products of TalVista will be integrated into Clovers' platform to support inclusive hiring practices. Chad, your thoughts on this love affair.

CS: in good old Nashville, Tennessee. I bet we're gonna see them at Recfest. So, Clovers, they were on buy or sell back in September of 2021, I think they had 15 million dollars back then, and we both said we would buy them, still a big fan of leadership that comes from the industry, like Clovers CEO, Doug Leonard does. He was at higher view and Cornerstone to name a few. Plus he has a sales background, and what do investors love more than a revenue-focused CEO. The answer, they like nothing more than a revenue driven CEO. Then you have Scot Sessions, the CEO of TalVista, he was on death match in June of 2020. I think the integration of TalVista with Clovers made this happen. Once again, kids, this is a great recipe for acquisition, partner with a bigger fish, and as they see traction in the market, your platform looks a hell of a lot more appetizing, you were a little bit apprehensive around Clovers' anti-bias messaging. So what do you think now now that they've gone full TalVista.

JC: The headline on the site now says Clovers acquire TalVista, creating a laser focus on building inclusive hiring tools. And to your point, that's exactly what they're building here. They're building a hammer that some tool box is going to want. You've got veterans, Elaine Orler and Scot sessions, as you mentioned, behind TalVista. Obviously, veterans in the space. I don't think they took any official money, maybe some seed money or angel money. You've got thhe folks at Clovers, you mentioned the Nashville connection, but they also have Jason Nazar, the guy behind Comparably, who sold to Zoom info last year as a co-founder, the guy knows how to build companies and then sell them. He's done it a couple of times in his life, so I think he's probably in the right seat at the right time. You've got a pretty competitive landscape with June Co., Canariis, The Mom Project, Circa, SeekOut is really getting into this space.

JC: One of these bigger platforms is going to be in the mood to gobble up a nice DEI solution. And these guys are clearly consolidating some smaller players in the space and becoming a very attractive, acquisition for a SeekOut or any of the major platforms that we've been talking about for the last couple years. I think the, the higher view connection between Scott and Doug, I think probably played a big part in those guys picking up the phone and saying, "Hey, we're thinking it's about time." Maybe move on Elaine and has other things to do. I'm sure she's got a long, long career at Cielo, which I think she's back at full-time. So I think timing, consolidation of these players around DEI, that's gonna be a big acquisition target at some point. All makes sense. If this were firing squad from me, this would probably get a large round of applause in terms of acquisitions.


CS: So in Bloomberg this week, there was an article, talking about the tech sector and how it really slashing DEIB teams. Twitter's DEIB team went from 30 to 2. So there's that. And then even before layoffs started, let's say over the last six months or so, we've heard a lot less about DEIB. I mean, all of 2020 DEI B was the new ai. You heard it all over the place. Everybody had it, everybody wanted it. Unbiased this, unbiased that. That that's tamped down a lot more. And I don't know if it's 'cause the layoffs because of the landscape, what it is, is this just gonna fade away? So my question to you is, do you think that, there's a lot of consolidation that's happening, that's obviously gonna happen this year. But do you think especially with the slashing of these DEIB teams at companies, that this is going to be top three on the want and need list?

JC: Yeah. I mean, we've seen this happen. Americans in particular have short attention spans and with George Floyd and some things that were happening, a couple years ago, the light really shined bright on what are companies doing, what organizations doing to be more equitable. And we saw a huge blossoming of companies that all promised to make this something that companies could solve. We saw budgets actually being created. Of course, it's a different world now. Tech companies, budgets are being slashed, valuations are being cut. So if marketing is one of the first things that gets cut, recruiting is one of the first things that get gets cut. Well, certainly attention to this issue is something that gets, that gets cut. I don't think it think it's going away. I think it will come back.

JC: But there may be a situation where you want to be bigger than you think you are. There's a really funny commercial right now. I think his name is Mbamba. He's the sinner for the Dallas Mavs, Boba maybe is his name, he does like Cheez-it commercials... Anyway, there's new commercial where "He says hi. He's like 7'4 or something. And he says hi. And then someone says, do you think he's real that tall? He goes in the locker room, takes his jersey off, and he's not one big person. He's like four little kids on each other's shoulders. So in some way, like these companies may be trying to get on each other's shoulders to create sort of one or two or three players that are worth, that are actually valuable and have the tools to make it that way. So, to me, there are many kinds of acquisitions. This may be one where two smaller players in something that is in less demand than it used to be, are trying to come together and make something bigger than what it really is. But I do think that DEI is gonna be a thing, I just think it's on pause because of the state of the world right now. You ready to play a little? Who'd you rather?

CS: I would, yes.

JC: All right. Who'd you rather everybody? Chad and I take two companies that have recently gotten funding, and we read a brief summary and then Chad and I decide who we'd rather. Number one is Skillit construction sector recruitment platform Skillit, and not what I have eggs and bacon and hash browns on Chad. It's a different kind of Skillit. It has raised $5.1 million in a seed funding round. It will use the funds to enter new regional markets, build its team and refine its product offering. Skillit says it offers a one platform solution for sourcing skills assessment, hiring, training evaluation, and wind back contractors facing record labor shortages. It also claims that it's vetted candidate profiles, custom matching automated workflows, data-driven compensation and labor market insights improve the hiring experience for both contractor and worker.

JC: Next up, we have Grazzy. Grazzy. A NextGen employee payments platform has raised $4.25 million in a seed round for its digital tipping, same day pay and financial wellness for hourly workers. The platform helps hotels, salons, bars, and restaurants improve employee retention and guest experience through digital tips and instant access to earnings with the latest funding set to be used to expand across large hotel brands and operating groups, restaurant groups and salons. So, Chad, Skillit or Grazzy, who'd you rather?

CS: You started drooling when you were talking about Skillit. Anyways. Andreessen Horowitz recently published their big ideas in tech for 2023. And I'll paraphrase, "We're having a labor shortage in construction, manufacturing, hospitality, retail, healthcare and education. These sectors are operating with legacy recruitment and talent management tech, which creates a massive opportunity for companies like Skillit and our friends over at Factory Fix. For these sectors, businesses trying to source and vet quality candidates is vital. Especially as most industries don't have their very own LinkedIn." I'm gonna say it's fairly simple for me. I'm gonna Skillit all damn day.


JC: Skillit wins the Sowash boat for who'd you rather. All right. This is good. We're gonna disagree on this one. So I think both companies are winners on this game of who'd you rather? I like Grazzy better, however, no one carries cash anymore. So service workers who used to be rewarded aren't so much anymore. Valets, housekeepers, bellhops, can now make more in a cashless world with a solution like Grazzy, there's no app to download. You scan a QR code, on the property, you choose a tip amount, give some quick feedback, select a payment method. Guests see individual team member profile so you know who you're actually tipping. The hotel gets a branded interface, on this platform. All tips and feedback are connected directly to the team member or team that you're tipping.

JC: I think it's brilliant and if I'm looking for work, an employer who is offering a tip solution like this, where I know when I make a bed and clean the toilets in a room, that someone will be more easily able to tip me or if I'm valeting or anything. Right? Like, I think it's a nice recruiting tool. I think it's gonna be a nice way for people to make more money. We'll get to the Walmart store in a bid, but people are hurting in this country. And anything extra that we can do to make it easier for you and I to give a fiver to someone that has given us good service, I think is a good thing. So for me, who'd you rather I'm going with Grazzy. I think you'll agree they're both winners.

CS: Well, I think in the US there's no question Grazzy is a winner, but the thing is that it is not going to have an appeal outside the US at all. We are a tipping culture, nobody else is.

JC: Yeah. But you think Americans go to Europe and other places to tip? Yes?

CS: So being over in Europe for three months, they come to you with the bill, you tap it and you're done. There's no asking for a tip. It's just boom, and you're done. So, yeah, I think from a US standpoint, we have our own problems here. And this could be a bandaid to one of those problems, but this has no global appeal.

JC: Well, I can tell you for sure, I've been at hotels where I want to tip the cleaning crew. And I don't have euros. I don't have cash. So in that case, it would be nice to have something digital where I could leave a tip. So I do think there are some instances whether or not companies embrace this in Europe, I don't know. But I think for the US it's a brilliant idea. We'll see if it catches on. Let's take a quick break and we'll get to, everyone's favorite topic. TikTok.

CS: Oh, yeah.

JC: All right, Chad. The screws are tightening on TikTok with a growing number of college campuses banning the app. Multiple schools have banned TikTok in recent weeks, including Arkansas State, Auburn, Oklahoma, Georgia, Idaho State, and Iowa. And nearly half the states have banned the app on state owned devices, including Mississippi, Indiana, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. The app is still alive and ticking. However, TikTok remains dominant in the US despite government ban with 68 million downloads, top five app ranking, and 46 million monthly active users on the Android version. Usage has remained steady with little impact from legislation. Chad, what do you make of the current state of TikTok in the US?

CS: Well, Other than AOC and Katie Porter banning Congress, or even state Congress members, from TikTok, really doesn't mean that much, because officials aren't using it anyway. Then universities banning TikTok is even funnier. And I'm gonna bet that less than 5% of University staff use TikTok. I mean, can you see the 70 year old science professor using TikTok?

JC: It's my understanding is that if you're on the wifi network at a university, it's banned. So students that are used to using the wifi they can't use the, university wifi.

CS: It's called VPN.

JC: And I think it's federal employees, not just Congressmen and women.

CS: Still, if you have a federal phone. And a lot of these people have their own phone anyway. And it's funny because when my kids went to high school, they VPNed. It was very simple. You can find your way around it pretty easy. So as you had mentioned, downloaded 68 million times in the US over the past year, including 8.7 million times since December. And not to mention the US does one thing well, it's look for money and then create ways to actually siphon that cash away. And that's what they'll do with TikTok.

JC: So this was a topic on our prediction show. And if you haven't listened to that, I encourage you to do so. JT O'Donnell, our guest co-host was big fan of TikToking and had some really optimistic predictions for TikTok in this year. And I came back and said that I... I'll go the other way and say that TikTok will be banned in the US. I don't know if it'll be banned. That's not really what we do in America. But Biden has never been under more pressure from Congress to ban TikTok. Missouri Republican senator Josh Hawley on just Wednesday of this week introduced legislation to prohibit TikTok, which is owned by a Chinese company from all devices nationwide, essentially making it illegal to have TikTok in the US which would be huge. It's not an accident that Donald Trump is back on meta.

JC: Elon Musk is a darling of conservatives. You don't think they're on the phone saying, "Hey, it'd be nice if TikTok just went away right about now." And for our space, even if TikTok doesn't get outright banned in America, if you're looking to recruit on college campuses, is TikTok something you're going to use to recruit? If you're recruiting government workers, are you using TikTok? Do you become fearful that government legislation may come down on you if you're using TikTok to advertise to government services? I don't know. I think the fear and uncertainty for a lot of advertisers, including, especially in our space, will keep people off of TikTok just by fear of, it's bad.

CS: Yeah. I don't know if you saw the numbers or not. 8.7 million times downloaded since December. The fear mongering is so much bullshit. Nobody gives two fucks what the US government says, unless they actually wipe it from Google and...

JC: Bingo.

CS: Apple.

JC: App Store. Gone.

CS: They're not gonna do that. They're not going to do that. I will say now, I will put a C note on it, that they will not do that. You want to go, I mean, there's no way. There's no fucking way. 'cause there's too much money there. And to put up a guy's name like Josh Hawley, I mean, Jesus fucking Christ. Can we talk about a fucking clown for goodness sakes, at the end of the day, TikTok is not gonna go away. The people that are being banned right now, they have their own devices other than their federal devices or they'll find a way to get around it. You can't stop the people, man.

JC: You can stop the people with laws.

CS: No, you can't.

JC: Sure you can. If TikTok got wiped off of Apple's app store and Google, it would die.

CS: Like I said, do you wanna put a C note on it? It's not gonna happen.

JC: No, I don't wanna put a C note on it. But it's...

CS: Okay. Yeah. 'Cause you know it's not gonna happen.

JC: [chuckle] It could happen. I'm saying it could.

CS: You know it's not going to happen. You're fear mongering.

JC: I don't have confidence that it's definitely gonna happen.

CS: "Oh, kids. Oh my God. It could go away." Oh, Stop it.

JC: Kids don't vote. They don't vote anyway. So there's no fear like we're gonna lose voters.

CS: No, they do, they do vote. They do vote. I don't know if you saw the last election or not. They do vote. Things are changing old man. Things are changing.

JC: They go to reels... Anyway. There's gonna be pressure dude, and candidates still start talking about banning it.

CS: Put Your money where your mouth is. C note.

JC: There's gonna be heat, there's gonna be heat on TikTok. All right, going to TikTok to a good old fashioned American company, Walmart why announced it will raise the average hourly wage of its associates to more than $17.50 an hour. That's up from $17 an hour, before they made that change. The raise will include a mixture of regular annual increases and targeted investments in starting rates for thousands of stores. The overall minimum wage will also climb to $14 an hour, a 70% jump for workers who stock shelves and serve customers. This move reflects the strong demand for lower wage workers despite widespread layoffs in white collar industries. Other retailers such as Amazon, Target and Costco have also announced pay increases. Chad, your thoughts on the Walmart news and the rise of the workers?

CS: No, yeah, I gotta say that corporate America is the best at twisting narratives. "Oh, look, we're giving new wages." So let's be clear. This isn't Walmart being a great corporate citizen, it's about market pressure looking for some kind of equilibrium. And in the US we've allowed stagnant wages to become standard for decades without any control of the crazy out of control c-suite compensation. The trickle down economics was supposed to find the money back to the worker and it never did. CEO comp went from 35 times that of the median employee compensation, and is now close to 400 times that. And in the case of the Walmart CEO, he's at 700 times that of a $17.50 an hour worker. So this is all bullshit and deception.

CS: Here's an example of how out of whack this is. Walmart CEO made over 25 million last year in total comp. That's over, listen, $12,000 an hour versus 17.50, which is $36,400 a year. 17.50, $36,400 a year. How many single moms can live on $36,000 a year in the US. The living wage for the least expensive state in the union, Mississippi, I picked Jackson, Mississippi for an adult and one child, the living wage is $30.28 an hour. That's from the MIT living wage calculator. So as we start to see these things, we need to research more and we need to understand, "Oh wow, they're getting a pay raise." Well, it doesn't matter. They haven't had it for fucking decades in the first place, while the money's going directly to the top at a 700 times that.

JC: So what you're saying is capitalism is awesome and the invisible hand of the market is amazing.

CS: Not at all. I mean, you need to listen closer. They should be making, they should be making a lot more than 17.50.

JC: So our friend at Jobcase CEO Fred Goff, posted on LinkedIn this week, "I'm shopping at Walmart this weekend. Happy to reward worker friendly progress." and I...

CS: He's pandering. I mean, Fred's looking for fucking jobs on Jobcase. Come on, I love Fred to death, but that's total fucking pandering.

JC: But the keyword there to me is progress. And this isn't progress to you.

CS: No, it's not. This is bullshit. If it was progress, it would be at the living wage standard, in Mississippi, they'd be actually making $30 plus an hour. We are way behind. And for somebody to say, "Oh look, this is progress because we gave them some crumbs. Fuck you and your crumbs."

Speaker 5: That escalated quickly. I mean, that really got outta hand fast.

JC: Let's take a break and go to Metahumans.

Speaker 6: Shall we play a game?

JC: All right Chad, after 18 years tech expert, Bartosz Pampuch found himself out of a job. The last resume he had prepared was back in 2003. So he decided to refresh his CV as a 3D avatar that can answer questions and guide recruiters through his career history, work style, and skillsets. In a LinkedIn post, Pampuch said, "Recruiters all over the world say goodbye to static resumes and hello to a dynamic interactive experience. It's almost like having me right there with you in person." Let's take a listen to the video he posted.

Bartosz Pampuch: Hello everyone. This is Bartosz Pampuch. Well, in fact, this is my metahuman based avatar, my digital twin, fully powered by artificial intelligence and capable of answering questions about me and my career history. I created it because sometime ago I asked myself this question, how many interviews would it take to find my next dream job? And I was like, why should I limit myself? I could scale this up and participate in thousands of interviews if that's what it takes to find the perfect match. And I turned the initial concept into the most interactive CV ever made an app you can talk to.

S8: What were your main responsibilities as the vice president of Comarch Healthcare?

BP: I was responsible for the strategic product lines, our telemedical platform, electronic health records, mobile and web-based solutions for patients and the medical AI cloud.

JC: Lots to digest here. Chad, what's your take?

CS: He put a lot of time to create a library around the responses. Would ChatGPT now start to take the training data that you wanted to focus on, which could be you and your history, right? And also the industry. And then just have it go ahead and work it itself. So he came up with, and he did a lot of work and being able to, get those interview questions and responses together himself. But now we have ChatGPT and then also we have the Veritone of the world, obviously who do voice cloning. They do that for us and our foreign language podcasts. They also have avatars. So this is going to happen much faster in 2023. I'm not saying the coming years, I'm saying the coming weeks.

JC: So my man created a startup, whether he knows it or not, the ability to sort of like scan your face, create a 3D avatar, create almost an FAQ page of questions an interviewer would ask, how you would answer it, and then create an interactive solution to do that, is pretty incredible. I don't think he meant to do that on purpose. Somebody needs to grab hold of this idea, and move it forward for... Frankly, if I'm a video interviewing solution, I'm a little bit nervous right now. Maybe not now, but five years from now. Although from your perspective, this could happen a lot faster than that. These are basically video interviews without scheduling headaches, without putting a shirt on. It's an incredibly efficient way to interview people. It's also scary for the video resume vendors.

JC: This is less AI to me than it is augmentation. I think that the resume as we know it is going to stay... The six second scan is, I don't think going anywhere anytime soon. However, to go through that six second scan of a resume and say, "Oh, I'd like to interview this person," click here and I get a 3D avatar, and then I can actually have an interview experience with the real person, with their real voice and real responses.

CS: With their clone.

JC: Is really pretty amazing if you think about it. It's scary, it's cool, I think there's a long way to go, but for a company that gets this right, is gonna crush it.

CS: Yeah. I don't know how a guy like this doesn't get a job right out of the gate.

JC: He probably already has one. I don't know when he put this video out on YouTube or did this thing, but he must, he's gotta have a job by now.

CS: All the work that he put into it in actually developing it, because it also has speech recognition. You have to recognize what they're asking. So like with Veritone, we're talking about voice cloning and avatars, that's one aspect of it. Then the ChatGPT piece of it where you can actually condense and start to grind on the training data that provides the text that will go to the voices and so on and so forth. So, I mean, you can start to build something like this much easier than what he did.

JC: Well I like that the answers were his... Almost like he bought a mic. He shows you like, we're talking on a mic now. He buys a professional mic. So there are a lot of moving parts on this. I don't know how you scale it easily, but the promise is there. Now, if they only had a husband and daddy avatar that I could turn on during the playoff games this weekend so I could watch without feeling guilty for neglecting my kids and being a bad partner, then we got something. We out.

JC: We Out.

OUTRO: Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese podcast. Or maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back. Valuable time you could have used to buy in nutritious meal at Taco Bell. Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey. Or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckle heads instead. Now Go take a shower and wash off all the guilt, but save some soap because you'll be back like an awful train wreck you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.


bottom of page