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2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

Indeed's House of Cards

Joel is haggard from 2,000 miles on the road this week, but that's nothing a beer, chicken tenders, a LIVE recording from a bar in Columbus Indiana, and BIG NEWS can't fix.

What big news?

  • Google for Jobs PAID ads present a serious risk to Indeed's new CPSA model

  • ChatGPT presents a serious risk to Indeed's new CPSA model

  • Indeed's model change wasn't timed well

  • Workday's A.I. goes to court

  • Mercer gets a shot of LeapGen botox

  • and Buy or Sell with WorkLlama, Bonusly, and Gable...

Sit back, pop a cold one, and enjoy what we do best - drink and talk.

You're welcome!


Disability Solutions is changing minds and changing lives through disability inclusion.

Chad: We are recording.

Joel: We are recording. Levels, level's good. Level's good.

Chad: Yeah. Looking good. Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast, Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: Oooh yeah. Anything to declare? Yeah, don't go to Jackson, Tennessee. Hi kids, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast, this is your co-host, Joel super-A-Cheeseman.

Chad: And this is Chad 1, 2023, prediction down, baby, Sowash.

Joel: And on this week's show, Google for Jobs tells Indeed to hold its beer. "Workday like George Bush hates Black people, and a little buy or sell. Let's do this.


Will Cheesman: Emotional damage.

Joel: What a week?

Chad: You look a little ragged.

Joel: So my father's 83 years old.

Chad: That's a good life.

Joel: Lives in Houston or live in Houston. I've driven 2000 miles this week to pick him up, put his house on the market, move him out, sell his shit, throw his stuff away. It has been one hell of a week and I have a new side hustle, if I ever want it.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: It's called two-week move out.


Joel: Because I myself have moved out of a place, listed it, trashed it, cleaned it up in two weeks and in two weeks I was able to get him in the same predicament. So I have a side business if I ever want it.

Chad: Could be a business model. Yeah.



Joel: That's right.

Chad: Well, we're glad to have you back in the Midwest.

Joel: We're not even home yet.

Chad: I know.

Joel: I took a pit-stop here in Columbus, Indiana, to do this stupid show.

Chad: Yeah. Yeah. [chuckle]

Joel: And have some beers with you.

Chad: We're here at 4th Street Bar and Grill in little Columbus, Indiana drinking beer, we're together. We don't do this enough. We only do that because we have events.

Joel: It's been a week since I've had a beer and it tastes pretty good.

Chad: Oh my God.

Joel: I gotta tell you. I gotta tell you. Can you do no booze January or whatever that's called?

Chad: That's fucking ridiculous.

Joel: They're demented and sad. I can't imagine.

Chad: Oh yeah. [laughter]

Joel: I'm as unprepared for this show as any show that we've ever done. So who knows where the hell its to go and I'm drinking.

Chad: And listener, that's not saying much. That's not saying much.

Joel: Yeah. Don't go to Jackson, Tennessee, by the way.


Joel: And don't stay at the motel 8, they're super lame.

Chad: Shout outs. My first shout out goes to Be My Eyes App.

Joel: Be My Ass?

Chad: Be My Eyes.

Joel: Eyes. Sorry.

Chad: Which is an app.

Joel: Sorry.

Chad: Okay? Okay. Yes. I appreciate the clarification. So Julie and I were sitting on the couch earlier this week, settling in for a night, catching up on The Last of Us on HBO Max. And she gets a call and she's as excited as I have ever seen her to take a call because she hates talking on the phone.

Joel: Yeah. Me too.

Chad: She answers the call, the video pops on, and all you see is somebody's house slippers. And I'm like, "What the fuck is going on here?" I have no clue what this is." So I have no clue what this is. Well, it's the Be My Eyes app. It's for... It has over or around half a million individuals who are visually impaired or blind, and they need somebody to tell them what color sweater they're grabbing so that they don't miss match. Or in this case, which was incredibly cute, this blind guy just... He has a new puppy. They're potty training it, and in the area where he had the puppy he was like, "Oh no, what if it shit?" So he was showing Julie the floor around just to make sure not... First and foremost, he didn't step in something.

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: And secondly, if there was something there, she could actually be his eyes to help him clean it up, which was amazing. I automatically joined as a volunteer, go to Be My Eyes. It's an app.

Joel: And she didn't know this person?

Chad: No. No.

Joel: They call randomly...

Chad: Yes. Yes.

Joel: And you agree to take the call...

Chad: Exactly.

Joel: And help them.

Chad: There are 6 million plus volunteers, which is just amazing. But anyway, that's...

Joel: That's very cool.

Chad: My short story.

Joel: Have you seen Bird Box on Netflix?

Chad: I have not. I have not.

Joel: Okay. I won't spoil it for you.

Chad: Okay.

Joel: But the blind win in the end.


Chad: Boom.

Joel: Totally did not ruin that for you whatsoever.

Chad: Boom. Yeah, thanks. That's awesome. Yeah.

Joel: Okay. I got a shout out for the Adult superstore, Chad.

Chad: Hello. [laughter]

Joel: These cathedrals of all things American erotica that appeared off the side of the freeway in small towns across the US, are something you don't see when you take flights like you and I do to most of the destinations across the world. It's nice to know that in a world complete with Porn Hub, OnlyFans, and Adam and Eve, that Bricks and Mortar stores like the Adult superstore are still a staple across small town America. And if you dare travel from Indiana through Illinois, Tennessee, Arkansas Texas and back...

Chad: They're everywhere.

Joel: You will see your fill of Adult superstores.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Almost as many as Jesus saves billboards, and Jesus is real and God is real.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Shout out to the Adult superstore.

Chad: There is like a super superstore just north of Kentucky, in Jefferson village. [laughter]

Joel: Is there?

Chad: Yes.

Joel: They have different names. There's like the Lioness superstore.

Chad: Yeah, it's fucking crazy dude.

Joel: There's Mirandas superstore.


Joel: Yeah.

Chad: This one was Truckers delight, I think it was called.

Joel: Yeah, it is America...

Chad: Oh fuck.

Joel: To the hilt. It is America.

Chad: Oh Jesus. Okay. Something else that is American to the hilt is Oscar the Grouch. Shout out to Oscar the Grouch. United Airlines new advertising campaign shows Oscar the Grouch looking through a newspaper and seeing a United Airlines help wanted ad for, guess what? Chief Trash Officer. This is great PR for Sesame Street and Oscar the Grouch. But what brand, let alone what airline wants their brand associated with trash? I would have personally gone with the Cookie Monster as Chief Snack Officer Trash. I'm not sure that I would want associate with my brand. Not to mention, I don't know that I would want to call CTOs trashy.

Joel: Yeah, or like the count. Like count the dollars you'll save by Flying United.

Chad: Save?

Joel: Yeah. We...

Chad: So many options.

Joel: Why don't people hire us for their advertisers campaign?

Chad: Fucking...

Joel: I have a funny Oscar the Grouch story.

Chad: Okay.

Joel: So I dated a girl in college.

Chad: Oh God.

Joel: Her last name was Mayer.

Chad: [laughter] Okay.

Joel: And she was a Ted Salty one night, and I called her...

Chad: Thank you.

Joel: I called her Oscar.

Chad: Oh, that is such good beer.

Joel: She thought it was for Oscar Mayer, the wiener...


Joel: Producer. And she thought it was cute. And I was like, no, Oscar the Grouch.

Chad: Oh.

Joel: And she didn't take kindly to that. I don't...

Chad: You should have stuck with the first one.

Joel: I don't think that we were with each other the whole night. So anyway, that's my Oscar the Grouch story. My second shout out Chad.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: You know, I love a good fast food shoutout.

Chad: What?

Joel: Especially when they have historical.

Chad: Reference.

Joel: Context to my own life.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Shout out to the KFC or Kentucky Fried Chicken as it's still called in Kentucky, by the way. The KFC double down.

Chad: Double down.

Joel: What the hell was the double down? Well, remember when paleo was first all the rage back in the day.

Chad: Yep.

Joel: And no one wanted sandwich meat or they didn't want bread.

Chad: No one want the breads.

Joel: Everyone got protein style or no bun. Well, KFC was in a bit of a pickle with their chicken option.

Chad: They were in a big of a pickle.

Joel: They had the great idea of putting two chicken thighs, which by the way, are still fried chicken. I guess people don't consider the breaded fried chicken as part as bread. But anyway, it is probably less bread than the bun. Anyway, you put two thighs together. And who doesn't love to do that?

Chad: I rather like them up apart.

Joel: And you put some cheese in there, some pickles, other condiments, and the meat becomes the bun essentially.


Joel: And they wrap in a little thing and you eat it, sort of like, a taco or a sandwich. And they're bringing it back for some reason. I don't know if it's like a keto thing, I'm not really up on the new diet bads of the world.

Chad: [laughter] Yes.

Joel: So who knows. But this is historical. This is a little bit McRib-ish. A little bit.

Chad: Very much is. Yes.

Joel: By the way, the milkshake is back for just in time for St. Patrick's Day.

Chad: Oh yeah. The Shamrock Shake.

Joel: Shamrock Shake. Yes.

Chad: Shamrock shake.

Joel: Sorry.

Chad: I love those as a kid.

Joel: Yeah. [laughter]

Chad: I loved them as a kid.

Joel: Frozen ice.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: That's colored green.


Joel: It's delicious.

Chad: Alright. Alright, alright. We're getting into events. Alright kids, Unleash America happening in April in Vegas. Obviously you want to be there. HR practitioners. Guess what? You can get a discount through Chad and Cheese. That's right. You go to

Joel: We got a coupon code?

Chad: Oh, we got a coupon link.

Joel: Okay, alright.

Chad: You just go to and, go to events. And guess what? All you have to do is find the events that you wanna go to. This one obviously being Unleash America, and register. Guess what? You're gonna automatically get a percentage off, get a discount. Then we've got iCIMS Inspire, this May in Coronado on the beach.

Joel: Oh yes. Yes.

Chad: We're gonna be closing out the main stage on day one. I have no clue what we're gonna be doing there. I just know that we're gonna be talking shit and enjoying life.

Joel: Snapping checks and writing... Wait. Snapping necks and cashing checks.

Chad: There you go.

Joel: That's what we're gonna be doing.

Chad: That's what. That's what.

Joel: Sorry. My brain is moving a little slower tonight.

Chad: And then, last but not least on at least this, we can't go through all of our events, kids, we have way too many. RecFest London in Knebworth. It's a party. It's a carnival. It is under a big top. It has a Ferris wheel. Holy shit. It's in July, London. You got to go there for all of these. And a long list of other events that Chad and Cheese are gonna be at. Go to, click on events, and, you never know. You might even receive a discount when registering for a ticket.

Joel: It's even rumored that Cole Cheeseman, who has a spanking new driver's license.

Chad: What?

Joel: Might be designated driving people to and from Knebworth.


Joel: We'll see how that goes. I'm not sure he wasn't tested on the other side of the car...

Chad: I was gonna say.

Joel: Or the Steering wheel.

Chad: Or the other side of the road.

Joel: It could be tunes as the cat driving over a cliff moment for everybody.

Chad: Talk to me about free stuff. I like free stuff.

Joel: Free shit. I Love free shit. I'm wearing a fine t-shirt, by the way.

Chad: That's our first one, version one.

Joel: This is the OG shirt.

Chad: Yep.

Joel: It's still a warm hug from both of us to this day.

Chad: Looks new.

Joel: It is, it's totally looking new 'cause I've never worn it before.


Joel: And, you gotta... If you want a t-shirt, if you want free beer from our friends at Aspen Tech Labs, Bourbon from our homies, in Denmark from Tex Colonel. And if it's your birthday this month, you could win some rum from our friends at Plum. That's good marketing once again. But you gotta sign up to get it. Head out to, click the free link, sign up. And there's a pretty good chance that at some point in your life as long as this show is airing that you'll win something.

Chad: So, Bas Van de Haterd who was... He has not received his t-shirt and he's knocking on our door. I'm thinking he feels like Job Gett should just send him a whole box or something. I don't know. [laughter]

Joel: Yeah. So I mentioned my 16 year old doing driving duty at Knebworth. My t-shirts are managed by my 13 year old daughter.


Joel: I think people think somehow we have some warehouse in Middle America churning out t-shirts and shipping shit.

Chad: That's great.

Joel: This shit takes time. We got a lot of fans. It's not personal.

Chad: Relax.

Joel: Just sit tight. Just sit tight. Okay.

Chad: Plus we're coming to events.

Joel: If you really want one, fly your ass to Indianapolis, I'll take you to lunch. We'll get some drinks and I'll give you a shirt if you really want one that much. Boss, Indiana's beautiful in the spring. We'll see you in a few weeks.

Chad: Yeah, or come to one of those events because more than likely we're gonna be packing kids. We're gonna be packing. Topics. Okay. Acquisition alert. Acquisition alert.

Joel: Yeah. You sent me this at like midnight last night.

Chad: I sent you this, you probably haven't even read through this. Mercer acquires Leapgen, Mercer a business of Marsh McLennan on the New York Stock Exchange. As M-M-C announced the acquisition of Leapgen. A leading HR Technology Advisory Firm focused on digital strategy and transformation, workforce solutions and improving employee experience. Mercer's latest research indicates that US organizations increasing their total HR spend. 63% are spending more on HR tech in 2023, despite increased investment, nearly 60% of HR leaders don't believe they have the right stack, hence consolidation on consulting. Is this big news, not big news. What do you think?

Joel: It's potentially big news and we don't talk a lot about the shred on this podcast. But the shred, if you're not listening and subscribe to our show, you can't get it on the website. It's exclusively, you gotta sign up for the feed.

Chad: That's for subscribers kids and it's free.

Joel: But it's nice because I read it every week and it's good to get a sense of like, Who's getting money? How much money? Who's getting acquired for how much? Like who's acquiring? What are the trends that you see? And I'm lucky enough to get like a 30,000 foot view of what's going on. Obviously when we started it was like," Oh, Someone you never heard of just got $70 million. Oh, that's fun. We'll talk about that on the show". And then, it became kind of, they're getting 20 million, 15 million and that's more of like what we're seeing today. And we're seeing a little bit more of the acquisition drives. And you and I have talked a lot about with the pandemic happening and money not flowing the way that it is, a lot of companies are gonna be looking to sell. A lot of companies are gonna go shopping. This is gonna be the TJ Max of our industry where for shit's, shit may not fit. Right. But it's cheap, so let's buy it...

Chad: [laughter] There you go.

Joel: And see if we can dye it into it or maybe have enough chicken wings that we feed into it later.

Chad: Or tailored. Yeah.

Joel: And to me this sounds a lot like that, like there was probably a clearance sale at Leapgen.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Is that... Okay. Leapgen and a company that had money and resources went out and bought it. Now as I read the Shred and the news, we're getting more and more acquisitions and I think that the trend will be less money raised and more companies buying companies. So in that case, I would say this is potentially a trend that we're gonna see and could be big news and a sign of things to come.

Chad: Yeah. I'm gonna say that I think Mercer was really an old and crusty brand and Leapgen is kind of this new, they do a lot of content, they've got a lot of thought leadership, a lot of that stuff. And Mercer's really missing that. So what they really needed to do, Is either develop it or buy that shit. I know from sources that Jason and Mike, who are co-founders and also the C-R-O Tanya, are locked into a five year agreement with Mercer. That's on the rumor wires and consulting services for vendors. This is low hanging fruit because you know those stacks don't work right together. They're shit, it's fucking horrible. So I think what's happening here is Mercer is trying to get a injection of Botox to look better, to feel better about themselves. You know what I mean?

Joel: [laughter] Yeah. Supercharged the staff. Look at this cool shit we got.

Chad: Ooh. It's amazing. So I just hope that they don't suffocate the Leapgen brand with their old crustiness. I hope that the Botox lasts long enough.

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: But we'll see. Time will tell.

Joel: Yeah. It almost never works out that way.


Joel: It's like a sugar high.

Chad: Yes, yes.

Joel: And it's back to the same old processes and big co-shit that everyone is used to. So it'll be fun for a while. Enjoy the cotton candy there Mercer.


Joel: Alright. Some other news.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Google for Jobs while.

Chad: So another beer.

Joel: Yeah, Another beer please.

Chad: Thank you.

Joel: Can you grab a water too, for the young man walking up the sidewalk there with the 1988 Oakley Sunglasses.


Chad: I love him.

Joel: Anyway.

Chad: I love him.

Joel: Sorry. I won't go into it. My Dad is joining us kind of at this podcast. Sorry. So Tom Chevrolet.

Chad: Let's go with Chevrolet. It makes him sound sexy.

Joel: Chevrolet, Chopping Buffalo, Chief Product Officer at App Cash shared a screenshot of Google for Jobs providing sponsored ads on specific searches. Most of you out there won't see it, which means it's in a testing phase.

Chad: Beta.

Joel: Chad predicted this would happened this year. I was a little early predicting it in 2021. Although I said it probably won't happen until 2024, but I'll give you credit for it but we both predicted it.

Chad: Of course, you will.

Joel: Google's doing it. LinkedIn was on fire over his share. Lot of comments, lot of ridicule, criticism.

Chad: Oh yeah.

Joel: Not a lot of love. What's your take on Google for Jobs advertising?

Chad: Well, first and foremost, the time is upon us kids. My sources say that many of the big programmatic players and some reputable Job Boards are actually they've been baiting this product for a minute. It's still hands down the worst job search UX in the game. But when you have the kind of traffic in usage that Google does, you can get the UX wrong and still find results for hiring companies looking to get away from vendors like, I don't know, Indeed that are currently holding clients hostage. If you're a hiring company and you already have your jobs marked up in the Google for Jobs feed, there will be a one click option. Did you hear that? One click option to elevate your job to a paid position. So I think this is definitely not perfect. We'll be talking about.

Joel: Is that confirmed or is that...

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Okay.

Chad: That's confirmed. This is not perfect, much like ChatGPT. Right? This is evolving. But I tell you what, when you have the type of traffic that Google does, Google is a lifestyle platform. Indeed is not. This is an incredible development I think in our space. The question is, will they stick with it?

Joel: Yeah, so the criticism that I saw was... Gee it took 'em long enough.

Chad: Really.

Joel: To me this is... Okay, so this thing launched in '17, it's been six years. We've had COVID. We've had some shit go on, let's call it a five year let's see where this goes test.

Chad: Well, they also had monopoly cases in courts and shit.