Meta vs. OpenAI: The Poaching Wars

Yes, kids, Meta's out here throwing $100 million signing bonuses like it's Silicon Valley's version of The Bachelor: AI Edition. Sam Altman says Meta doesn’t innovate—they just copy, poach, or panic. Zuck disagrees, mostly by pulling out the ol’ checkbook and seeing who flinches first.

💸 Altman has purpose.

🧠 Zuck has pockets.

🤖 Apple has… denial?

And in the spirit of absolute chaos, we also tackle:

• Trump’s ICE raids and immigrant whiplash policies

• Amazon’s AI-powered job apocalypse—with a side of robo-taxis and Zoox.

• Indeed’s data-hungry money grab—coming for your CPA and your sanity.

• Klarna’s AI CEO hotline

• And yes… Zoom’s CEO says forget hobbies, sell your soul to the company. Charming.

🔥 All this while Emi debates whether she’d sell out for $100 million (spoiler: yes), Joel relives Steve Jobs’ passive-aggressive email game, and Chad prays Zuck doesn’t start poaching podcasters next.

🧨 Silicon Valley is on fire, and The Chad & Cheese are here to roast marshmallows on it.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION Joel Cheesman (00:34.858)

Wake us up before you go go. Cause we're not planning on going solo. Hey boys and girls, it's the Chad and cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel. Does anyone know the name of Elon's ketamine dealer Cheesman?

Chad (00:48.004)

This is Chad, the world is on fire, Sowash.

Emi B (00:51.828)

And this is Emi, I am so happy that Summer is finally here in London, Beredugo.

Joel Cheesman (00:57.84)

Ad on this episode Meta Poaches, Amazon Replaces, and Tariffs Are Tariffing. Let's do this.

Chad (01:07.212)

That's the end of the world as we know. What the fuck is going on around here kids? Jesus, how many wars can we have? Jesus.

Joel Cheesman (01:13.304)

Come on, it's summer in England. Let's focus on summer in England. That sounds beautiful. That sounds Shakespearean. It sounds just quite like a gin and tonic.

Chad (01:21.016)

It does sound.

Emi B (01:22.478)

It is beautiful. is, this is honestly, it is Pym's weather. It is Prosecco weather. It is strawberry, it's in cream weather. Wonderful. But listen, I'm just going to let you know, cause summer only lasts for about two days this year, you know, every year. Um, yeah. So by the time you guys come over, it may not be summer anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Honestly.

Chad (01:23.682)

midsummer night's dream.

Chad (01:28.888)

Who? Pins? Who?

Chad (01:43.235)

Joel Cheesman (01:43.97)

Well, we were in a mud bog last year. Remember they had to put hay down on the ground and, and, the RECFEST crew.

Chad (01:49.956)

Still had a blast. Still had a blast.

Emi B (01:51.894)

It was fun, but my white trainers were not white by the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, that was an issue.

Chad (01:55.606)

Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it. That be a problem.

Joel Cheesman (01:58.772)

You probably don't remember this chat. was, I was going to meet you at the RL 100 and pick me up. They, they took me to the, Nebworth site. thought they knew where I was going. The next thing I know, I have a worker vest, one of these, you know, glow in the dark vests and I'm in the middle of this mud. like, what am I doing? I'm supposed to be at like some recruiter leaders thing. And they're like, you're in the wrong place. And then they're like on the mics and I showed up late. yeah.

Chad (02:03.972)

No, I do remember.

Chad (02:09.625)

Yeah.

Chad (02:16.375)

Yeah, yeah.

Emi B (02:24.718)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (02:24.772)

You

Joel Cheesman (02:28.546)

was a good time. Good time. Good time. Well, it's Juneteenth. It's Juneteenth here in America as yeah, the rest of the world burns. What's it looking like from Europe with all this action going on?

Emi B (02:28.586)

no.

Chad (02:30.702)

Good times.

Emi B (02:38.414)

It is like a TV show. It is hilarious. Honestly, it is like what else is going to happen? Just when we think that it can't get crazier, it gets crazier. It's mad. So if you look at my YouTube reel, because I'm like on YouTube every single night, I following everything that's going on with Trump, everything that's going on with Elon Musk, and also the PDD trial. So those are my three things. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry, people. Bringing it down.

Chad (03:01.966)

Jesus.

Joel Cheesman (03:04.184)

It's funny that you say show because I do think if Trump is good at something, it's the reality show. But he's brought that to the White House and it's frightening. But he does like a good show. So it's interesting that you would describe it as a show because I think he thinks this is one big show and he's the apprentice still.

Chad (03:05.412)

Mmm.

Emi B (03:21.422)

Honestly.

yeah back on the apprentice or you know some other apprentice spin-off.

Joel Cheesman (03:29.932)

Yeah. How about Portugal, Chad? Is it still paradise? you watching? Yeah.

Chad (03:30.467)

Yeah.

Chad (03:34.724)

It's wonderful. It's wonderful. Today it's 90. It's 90 degrees. So a little warm, a little warm. But other than that, it's great. I mean, I've got a pool. I've got a beach. I've got plenty of beer. I've got great food. mean...

Emi B (03:47.875)

look at you just rubbing it in.

Chad (03:52.196)

It's really close to you, Emmy, so I don't want to hear it.

Emi B (03:55.95)

Well, I might just pop on a plane next week and like, hi, I'm here. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (03:56.13)

That is true.

Chad (04:00.718)

Come on over, come on over.

Joel Cheesman (04:01.482)

I love it. love it. Just remember, just make sure your passport is up to date, Emmy. Just make sure your passport is up to date. What you got for... Ladies first for shout outs, Emmy. What you got?

Emi B (04:07.574)

Yeah, yeah, it is all done. Yeah.

Chad (04:12.322)

Until they Brexit again. Until they Brexit again, yeah.

Emi B (04:18.446)

Well, my shout out is to my favorite app, which is TikTok. So I'm just going to cast your mind back. Do you remember back in the beginning of the year, maybe December last year, I was asked to do my predictions. And my predictions were, you know, that TikTok was not getting banned. So guess what? You know, apparently June 19th today, TikTok was supposed to be banned. It's not getting banned. Trump has, what is it? Done a taco. So Trump always, yeah, love that. Trump always chickens out. He has chickened out.

Joel Cheesman (04:30.445)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (04:30.615)

yeah.

Joel Cheesman (04:42.648)

Taco. He's done it.

Emi B (04:48.014)

Poor, poor Trump. I mean, he's not having a great time at the moment, but I'm being nice. I'm being polite. Actually, fuck Trump. Yeah.

Chad (04:50.732)

or drones.

Joel Cheesman (04:54.68)

Do the Brits talk about banning it or is that not a topic?

Chad (04:55.843)

Yeah.

Emi B (05:00.276)

No, it's not even a topic. We don't care about things like that. You know, we're just interested in TikTok dances and everything else. So I'm all for TikTok staying. Well done, TikTok. TikTok's not going anywhere and Trump is going to keep doing the taco. Yeah.

Chad (05:16.484)

Constant taco, which is making Joel really really hungry right

Emi B (05:20.014)

sorry, sorry Joe.

Joel Cheesman (05:23.758)

it's, it's just getting started with, with that stuff. So, my shout out guys, I've, I've been in the internet business for a long time. and I've always been fascinated with dating sites for whatever reason, like dating sites and classifieds have always been the moneymakers in the internet. People can't get you to sign up for newsletters, but like dating people will pay for, and they have for a long time.

Chad (05:32.324)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (05:48.97)

Not since Tinder has a dating site been so, I don't know, intriguing. So there's a new site, it's called browser dating and it's, it's pretty much what you think it is. they, you upload, your, your browsing, profile from your fight, your 5,000 most recent searches. And then they algorithmically match you with someone who has a similar search history.

Chad (06:05.934)

browser history.

Chad (06:10.07)

Okay.

Joel Cheesman (06:19.244)

to match you up. Now, I don't know who's gonna upload their last 5,000 searches. And I don't know what kind of matching they're doing between, know, bug fights and big booty Latinas, what my searches would be. So anyway, I'm just curious, you guys, is this something you would entertain if you were a single person or no?

Emi B (06:39.286)

No, no, because do you know what it is though? Because the thing is I have, I know what I'm actually like and I know the image I portrayed to the world and what type of person I'm trying to get. So I want to really like a gentleman, but if you're to go through my browsing history, I, you know, I'm skanky. I know I am. I'm sorry. Like, you know, there's stuff on there that needs to, no one needs to see. That just needs to stay in my head so I can attract the right husband, you know? So no, absolutely not.

Chad (06:46.35)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (07:07.864)

So you don't want to be the real you when you first meet somebody. You want to...

Chad (07:07.908)

See? That's not fair. That's a bait and switch. That's a bait and switch. That's not fair.

Emi B (07:10.83)

No! Yeah, 100 %! I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that.

Joel Cheesman (07:16.118)

What is makeup? Makeup is bait and switch. You're not, you know, like visually you're not who you really are when you first start dating, right?

Emi B (07:22.902)

Listen, no one needs to know that. I've had, how long does my Botox last for? know, other like, what would be good to spice up the love life? You know, that no one needs to know that kind of, actually, I've just told the whole world now that that's my brows and history. But when I'm meeting a future husband, they don't need to know that. They just need to know the image I'm presenting.

Joel Cheesman (07:44.074)

All right.

Chad (07:47.16)

It'd be a lot easier if you literally, if TikTok just did that automatically, because they have everybody's history and they know where your location is and they could, boom, just go ahead and make that happen. But for me, I don't want to, yes, common interests are really cool, but I don't want to date somebody like me. I mean, I want a better half, right? I don't know. I don't want a worse half. So yeah, mean, to me, that doesn't really make any sense.

Emi B (07:53.581)

Well.

Emi B (08:10.849)

You

Emi B (08:17.614)

You

Joel Cheesman (08:19.672)

All right, so that's a, that's a no on browser dating for everybody. But if you're interested, it's browser.dating in case you're single out there and looking, looking for love, looking for love Chad.

Emi B (08:22.934)

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Chad (08:30.628)

I can't believe there's a top level domain dot dating. That's fucking ridiculous.

Emi B (08:33.511)

sit honestly.

Joel Cheesman (08:34.24)

Well, imagine if this gets into the job space, which most dating sites do. Someone's going to come up with like, upload your last 5,000 searches and we'll connect you to a company that you match with. This is coming, I'm telling you.

Chad (08:38.852)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (08:49.134)

Watch this space, 2026 prediction.

Chad (08:49.302)

stoop, stoop, stoopidity everywhere. As a matter of fact, Indeed might do that. My shout out is going to Jim the Indeed Whisperer Durbin who sent me this little gem last night. Go ahead and roll that beautiful bean footage, Joel.

Chad (09:10.147)

affectionately.

Chad (10:33.54)

Asteroid, big asteroid, prehistoric. Yeah, no, no, no, no. But I mean, it's literally just another chapter of Indeed's newest hit series, Suicide by a Thousand Cuts, right? So they, CPSA, CPA, Healthy Budgets, AKA, raising the rates, and now this. So it's still early days, as Jim had said. I've reached out to a couple of...

Joel Cheesman (10:35.877)

No hyperbole there at all. No hyperbole there at all.

Chad (10:58.004)

agencies had a couple of conversations, but we need to dig into this a little bit deeper. Talk to, we'll talk to Jim this week, talk to some agency contacts and some other industry veterans to find out what the hell is going on. But for me, right out of the gate, this automatically went right to disposition data, right? You know, that's what Indeed wants. They want this position data. Can they get that from the agencies? No, they can't. Where do they get that from? They get it direct feeds from applicant tracking systems, right? So

Emi B (11:01.998)

Mm.

Chad (11:25.954)

being able to start to snake and trojan horse your way into these different areas, Indeed wants more control. They want your disposition data. They want to push competitors out of the market and control wallet share. And every move that they've been making, you start to see everything kind of coming together. I don't think it's a very smart plan, to be quite frank. Maybe that's why

I mean, I mean, I left. But shout out to the Indeed whisperer Jim Durbin for the news. What do you guys think?

Joel Cheesman (12:07.49)

To me, I look at it competitively and I'm still digesting this because Jim sent it. last night I just saw the video, like appcast and programmatic has always been a burr and indeed asks and. Appcast acquiring Bayard, an agency, like somehow those pieces might fit together. but to me, this hurts agencies and like the programmatic guys, unless I'm saying it wrong. And I think that's ultimately what they're trying to do. Squeeze out competition.

Chad (12:10.638)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (12:37.132)

That's what they've been doing for a long time since they, since they kicked out job boards down the algorithm, you know, into algorithm abyss. they've always thought about how do we screw the competition? And maybe this is another move towards that.

Chad (12:50.797)

Anything, Amy?

Emi B (12:52.834)

I think you basically covered it. I agree with both of you. I'm just interested to see how this works out. I don't think it's going to work out very well in New Launc. They've tried everything. They keep trying new ways to keep the business alive. Nothing really works. So, yeah.

Chad (13:05.208)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (13:08.568)

Well, there's clearly, as we talked about, there's a clearly avoidant innovation at Indeed. And I think that's why the CEO shuffle is going on over there. So if you don't have innovation and you can't provide great products, it's like, how do we squeeze people? How do we add products and nickel and dime people to death? And this is kind of what we're seeing. It's like, this is a desperation move, which we've been seeing for years at Indeed.

Chad (13:12.779)

yeah, god yes.

Emi B (13:30.028)

Yeah. I think they're trying to innovate. It's just that they're what they're innovating is a bit crap. Yeah.

Chad (13:32.553)

We

Chad (13:37.156)

Well, I think it's a force for the trees kind of thing. I mean, they see what's good for them. And to be quite frank, they don't give a fuck about anybody else. We've heard from Matt over at UPS. We've heard from Megan over at Marriott that, to be quite frank, if they keep making these decisions, it just gives them more reason to look at other things. mean...

Emi B (13:44.664)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (14:02.936)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (14:03.524)

UPS is already hiring directly out of their applicant tracking system out of their CRM because they have shit tons of candidates. Marriott has over 10 million candidates, right? So it's like, you're going to push them in different areas and they're going to spend less. They're going to spend less. And then you do things like this and then you really start to piss them off. anyway, I tell you what is not going to piss them I know. I know. I know.

Joel Cheesman (14:27.274)

It's, it's the hubris, Chad. It's the hubris that killed career builder monster. It's like, we're the shit and we're going to do what we want to do. And you're going to get in line and take it. And consumers don't like that and they go elsewhere eventually. So good luck with that indeed.

Emi B (14:29.966)

You

Chad (14:41.378)

You know what consumers do like though? They like free stuff. That's right. And kids remember that there's always free stuff with the Chad and Cheese. Just go to ChadCheese.com slash free. And if they go there and they register, Emmy, what could they possibly win?

Joel Cheesman (14:46.616)

Yes, they do.

Emi B (14:59.918)

They could win so much stuff. They could win chicken cock whiskey. Still waiting for my two bottles. Oh my God. I'm just waiting for my one bottle. absolutely. Oh, chicken cock whiskey. Going over to the tech talent experts over at Van Hack. And then what else could they get? Bourbon barreled age syrup. So that's going to go over to Bob and Doug McKenzie over at Kiara. Lovely soundbites.

Chad (15:03.62)

Ooh, two bottles. yeah.

Chad (15:24.172)

Okay.

Emi B (15:29.44)

And if anyone wants a t-shirt, you've seen those love soft to the touch t-shirts, you know, yes. what's that? Just a tip. Yes, they could get t-shirts. So that's going over to those red shoe wearing weirdos over at Erin app. Then we've got craft beer. So that's going to go over to the job data geeks at Aspen tech labs and the best free stuff of all. If it's your birthday, you get, woo.

Joel Cheesman (15:37.548)

hahaha

Chad (15:38.2)

Yeah

Chad (15:44.9)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (15:58.924)

Run with Plum!

Chad (16:00.568)

Right, baby. Wait, you have to register.

Emi B (16:04.322)

to register, absolutely.

Chad (16:05.686)

at chadcheese.com slash free.

Joel Cheesman (16:08.12)

That's right guys. And don't forget our, our shout outs are sponsored by Kiara simply awesome candidate texting software celebrating another trip around the sun this week. have listeners, Tom Bickle, Brittany Porter, Seppi Nyeri, a proud Iranian. know she's, she's challenged. So if you know, if you know Seppi, her a shout. I know she's concerned about what's going on in the middle East. Heather Myers calling to George, Jenny Shiaka, Sean Paul, Seth, Robert Rudolph, Biddy Henneken.

Chad (16:12.317)

yeah.

Chad (16:24.26)

love her.

Joel Cheesman (16:38.553)

Mary Ellen Slater, Carrie Corbin and Shannon Pritchett all celebrating another trip around the sun. Happy birthday.

Chad (16:43.586)

There we go.

And you can possibly have your birthday on stage with Chad and Cheese, one of the disrupt stage in Wreckfest. Well, Steve, you know where we're going, because you're going to be there too. Travel sponsored by Shaker Recruitment Marketing. Nebworth is calling, that's right, Wreckfest UK in Nebworth, July 10th. The Chad and Cheese are going to be on the disrupt stage with Steven, our favorite Scott McGrath.

Joel Cheesman (16:58.154)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's gonna be there.

Chad (17:13.09)

JTMO are going to be there and Emmy, you're going to be hosting the stage too. Which one are you going be hosting?

Joel Cheesman (17:17.068)

God.

Emi B (17:17.998)

Oh, I knew you're gonna put me on the spot. I was like, what's the name of that new stage? I'm gonna have to come back to it. The Emmy stage, that's all you need to look for. Go onto the app, go onto the website. You'll find me there. So it starts at 10 o'clock, I think. That's when I'm doing the opening for my stage. Ta-da! Yes. Absolutely.

Chad (17:22.572)

the Emmy stage.

Just look.

Joel Cheesman (17:34.924)

The Emmys, I like that. We should have a new award. The end of year Emmy Awards. I like it, I like it.

Chad (17:36.556)

The Emmys, the Emmys. Well, there we go.

Joel Cheesman (17:46.52)

All right, guys, let's get into it. Who loves a good poach? OpenAI CEO Sam Altman claims Metta is aggressively poaching his staff with lucrative offers, including, get this, $100 million signing bonuses. Altman believes superintelligence is the next step in artificial general intelligence, where the aim is to create AI which can vastly outperform human cognitive abilities. Altman reportedly told his brother, quote,

Chad (17:49.987)

off.

Joel Cheesman (18:15.736)

There's many things I respect about Metta as a company, but I don't think they're a company that's like great at innovation. Ouch, sick burn Altman. Chad, what are your thoughts on the poach-a-rama between these tech giants?

Emi B (18:26.19)

You

Chad (18:30.616)

mean, all this and OpenAI who has received $62 billion in funding, they're under pressure to grow headcount as well, right? But think about it, $100 million signing bonus, that's nothing to brush off. But you've got to ask yourself, why are these over-the-top bonuses? Why over-the-top signing bonuses from Meta? Because Google Anthropic

Emi B (18:45.998)

Mmm.

Chad (19:00.416)

Open AI, their newest models are leaving Meta's llama for in the AI dust. mean, have you seen or played with any of that new stuff? The VO stuff, the, ma- it's amazing. So Meta is sounding the AI alarm in an effort to try and catch up. Not by out innovating the competition. no, that's not Meta's MO and it hasn't been for a very long time. When Meta is behind, they either copy, buy competitors,

or they poach their talent, right? OpenAI thus far has retained quote unquote their best talent, but how? Well, I'm sure they're highly compensated already, not to mention who wants to play catch up when you're already one of the main horses in the race with other global leaders in AI? Why would you leave all of your hard work and start from ground zero? Sometimes it's just best to stick with the devil you know, and that's Altman.

Emi B (19:31.565)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (19:57.964)

Whether you like the tactics or not, at least meta is trying because it seems Apple has given up on AI altogether. Apple just released a paper from their AI researchers. That's right. That was air quotes, kids, which dispels the major models are actually reasoning. So apparently if you can't build it, you go to meta, you go to the meta route, you try to buy it or you go the Apple route and you just deny it even exists. Either way.

AI, whether it's reasoning or becoming better at predicting patterns, has been pretty fucking awesome. You've got to say it, And it's leaps and bounds different today than it was literally just six months ago. So all the way around, Meadow's behind. They've got a way to go after it. Apple's behind. I don't know what the fuck they're going to do.

Joel Cheesman (20:53.848)

I mean, you like a good poach. What are your thoughts on this story?

Emi B (20:56.802)

do like a good poach, always. Listen, I mean, you're right. Look, Meta is way, way, way behind all these other companies. you know, Chad, you're saying they haven't been great at innovating. And that is true. They've copied everything, you know, they're, they're, they're reels, for example. That's just a straight copy of other companies. They don't know how to innovate before. They used to, but they don't have that reputation anymore.

Chad (21:24.388)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (21:24.408)

So the only way they're going to attract people really to the organization is by throwing money at them. And that money, yeah, it's huge amounts of money. It's giant amounts of money. And that's just a signing bonus. That's not the annual basic. That's not the stock options. That's not none of the other incentives. So that total package just to get those really strong tech minded people into the organization, I think from Mark's point of view, that's going to be worth it.

Chad (21:39.745)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (21:51.054)

Because you get those great minds into your organization, they're going to help Metta to innovate. That's going to down the line realize itself in increasing revenue. Now, the problem that Metta also has, though, is whether or not money is enough to sway people. If it was me, yeah, you're going to give me $100 million? Yeah, maybe I'll take it. Yeah, I'll be there for a couple of years. But when you get people who are

more ethical maybe than I am, who care about the culture, who care more about the mission, the vision in a company, building something which is actually going to be groundbreaking, that may not be enough to sway people. And that's what OpenAI CEO Sam Altman thinks as well. He thinks that they've got the culture. He thinks that they've got the ethos, the mission, which is far superior to meta.

I'm interested to see whether or not, know, when it comes down to it morally, where people are going to stand.

Joel Cheesman (22:51.416)

So Emmy's price tag is 100 million in case anyone was wondering what that dollar figure was.

Emi B (22:53.826)

Yeah, come pay me. Show me the money. I got a house to buy. Show me the money.

Chad (23:00.612)

I would take less. would take less. I would take less.

Joel Cheesman (23:03.476)

much less. Yeah. Yeah. 10 mill gets me blue chew for the rest of my life and a, and a beach somewhere. you know, you know who remembers my space? we do, but also Mark Zuckerberg does when Facebook launched to the public, my space had roughly 90 % market share of, social media. know how that worked out. So Mark is very aware that I don't want to be the next my space. I don't want my tombstone to somehow.

Emi B (23:08.536)

Yeah

Chad (23:08.976)

Hahaha!

Chad (23:24.9)

Mm.

Emi B (23:30.222)

Mm-hmm

Joel Cheesman (23:32.738)

connect me to the people that I kicked their ass at some point. So to Chad's point, at least he's trying. A hundred million is insane. A hundred million is like Ronaldo money, like messy, like that is insane. So either Altman is full of shit or there's some serious stock options being thrown at these people because a hundred million dollar salary is pretty nuts. So I don't know. That's sort of hearsay to me, but the point is,

for Facebook to compete. Historically, Facebook in the 2000s was incredibly innovative. And then they became like, we're just going to acquire all the innovation. So let's go by Instagram, let's go by WhatsApp. They're at a point where there's no one really to buy that's left. They can't go by TikTok, another competitor to put them or an AI competitor that they can probably do. So let's resort to this. My feeling on poaching is if you can get away with it, it's great. Like you pressure your opponent,

Chad (24:13.124)

Yeah.

Emi B (24:14.594)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (24:32.568)

To put a hundred million dollar price tag, the next employee at open AI that comes up for review is going to be like, Hey, a hundred million is on the table at Facebook. What do you guys got for me? So you, you, you press your competition to pay more for the talent they have without actually spending any money. So generally it's smart. think that where it becomes dangerous is if you, you try to piss with the big dogs, bigger dogs than you. So there's a great story. You mentioned Apple, Chad,

Adobe back in the day, was poaching from Apple. And this was the old boys club when like everyone agreed we're not going to poach from each other, like gentlemen's agreement, which is bullshit. And that'd be that's illegal. But anyway, back in the day, Adobe was poaching Apple people. So Steve jobs sends an email to Adobe CEO. which yeah, this, this is, this is your history lesson, everybody in case you, in case you missed it. So, so.

Chad (25:03.204)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (25:29.752)

Job sends an email that just says recruiting in the subject line. And then he says, uh, let me get this right. Cause I don't want to, I don't want to mess it up. So he says, uh, quote Bruce, who was the Adobe CEO Adobe is recruiting from Apple. Uh, it seems you have, uh, he quip, uh, that Adobe has already poached one of some of their talents is our talents. Um, however, the policy at Apple is to never hire from, uh, on a, on a competitor. He says, it seems you have a different policy. Um,

Chad (25:56.1)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (26:01.908)

One of us must change our policy. Please let me know who. So we put the pressure on Adobe to say either we're going to start taking Adobe people or you're going to stop taking our people. this case, Adobe was a bigger fish than, or Apple was a bigger fish than Adobe. Facebook is still a bigger fish than open AI. So I think it's a good move on their part. If it was reversed, I'd say probably not do it.

Chad (26:09.771)

Right.

Emi B (26:11.67)

Yeah

Chad (26:25.924)

Well, they did spend 14 billion to buy 49 % of Scale AI. And then they took Scale AI CEO Alexander Wang into meta. That's only the beginning of what's going to happen. But they did spend, go figure, 49%, not controlling.

not controlling so that they can't play the antitrust. They're doing a lot of Microsoft kind of like open AI games at this point from a funding standpoint, but they are still buying and they're trying to buy stuff.

Joel Cheesman (26:50.039)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (27:03.928)

All right guys, let's take a break and come back and talk some Trump.

Joel Cheesman (27:11.416)

Alright guys, terrorists are in the news again. know that you thought maybe they were gone. Immigration is in the news again. Let's check out a quick video highlight from last week's news.

Emi B (27:14.894)

You

Chad (27:15.364)

Woof.

Joel Cheesman (28:07.416)

Yikes. So the pressure is on. Last week, President Trump had directed the Department of Homeland Security to halt immigration enforcement operations targeting farms, meatpacking plants, produce operations, and hotels following a string of high profile ICE raids over the past week. But an about face came just days after President Trump signaled sympathy for producers relying on immigrant labor only to reaffirm his administration's commitment to carrying out

Chad (28:09.901)

Jesus.

Joel Cheesman (28:37.334)

mass deportation, especially in blue states. gets political all this with the effects of tariffs yet to come, even though the housing market may be a canary in the coal mine as well. Chad, a lot going on with the economy and immigration, your thoughts.

Chad (28:54.552)

He's trying to have it both ways. You can't have it both ways. I mean, you can't you can't be sending immigrants out of the country and having ICE raids. I mean, it's they're they're freaking storm shock troops for God's sakes. They're sending people out. And these are the people that are doing the work, the migrant work at the farms. And now he's being, well, yes, this is very hard for them. And we should it's like, you're the problem, dude. You can't you can't you can't send your shock troops in.

and then say, well, we're going to make it better. You can't have it both ways. You can't do both. And I mean, there's video of ICE going across farmland, actually trying to round up migrants. And it's like these individuals are doing the hard work that Americans won't do. Right. Then you take a look at the actual jobs number. So you take a look at how many people actually from a participation number left, right, over 600,000.

Joel Cheesman (29:39.702)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chad (29:54.456)

Then you have the actual jobs numbers. Well, tariffs are smacking the jobs numbers in the fucking face. And that is a huge issue. When the market isn't stable, consumers stop or slow spending, which is why AT or At Home is in bankruptcy. So this is one of the companies that's in bankruptcy. 260 stores across 40 states. They're looking to close. At Home,

They were feeling the pain. They hired a new CEO, Brad Weston, last year to try to get the train on tracks, but then tariffs removed the tracks completely. Again, you can't have it both ways. You can't grow an economy and starve the economy at the same time. So we're seeing the same thing on the workforce side of the house and then on the spending side of the house. We need stability and we don't have stability.

Emi B (30:51.671)

No.

Joel Cheesman (30:55.874)

So he's, I don't know if he's wanting it both ways. By the way, have you guys seen the Trump phone that's coming out? Was this news in Europe? is doing a phone, actually it's the Brothers Trump. They're creating a gold phone. It's 45, 47 a month, because he's president for number 45 and 47.

Chad (31:04.023)

Jesus.

Emi B (31:06.036)

No, what is a Trump fine?

Joel Cheesman (31:22.07)

And apparently they can't, it's supposed to be made in America, but they can't make enough for the launch. they're going to be made in China, which is very ironic. But anyway, so yeah, the Trump phone coming, coming soon to no store near you anytime soon. he, if you look at Trump's favorability numbers, the only thing, well, the only thing I guess with independence that's working for him is immigration. so he looks at.

Chad (31:33.324)

and I bet they don't get hit by tariffs.

Emi B (31:35.651)

Of course not, but yeah.

Joel Cheesman (31:52.15)

He has farmer friends. has big business friends. He has restaurants that he goes to and people he knows there. And they're all telling him, dude, we don't have people to pick the food, to slaughter the animals, all the restaurants, like restaurants are going to be empty. Like farms are going to be on like, so on one hand he hears that and he's like, yeah, that's bad. I need to be able go to my restaurants and eat and feel like the lifestyle that I'm raised had. But then he has this issue of immigration that he's still fairly good on.

Chad (32:04.26)

to serve, to cook.

Emi B (32:14.83)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (32:22.486)

compared to his other other issues. you have a Stephen Miller who's like Gestapo and chief and, telling, telling ice that we need more people. You need to like arrest more people because this issue is a good one for us. So then they go down to the home depots. They go down to the lows and they're like, let's get everybody out of here. Everybody's arrested. Apparently they're targeting blue States shocker. So Stephen Miller's like, let's keep the immigration thing going. Let's hit it. Let's hit back on blue States.

Chad (32:47.342)

Big, big surprise.

Joel Cheesman (32:52.396)

But he's caught in this catch 22 of we need people to do this work, but I have this issue that's fairly popular for me. What the hell am I supposed to do? And this is all in light of the tariff like effects are coming. Like the whole 30 day thing where everything stopped is coming to a head and we're all going to see it in action. So he's got a train wreck that's coming.

Emi B (33:05.902)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (33:07.118)

Yes.

Chad (33:15.832)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (33:17.706)

And he's trying to, he's trying to dance, but I don't, I don't think it's working. The train is coming and it's, it's coming down the tracks and it's not going to be pretty, for the Trump administration. I'm afraid.

Emi B (33:31.724)

No, to be honest, I kind of listening to all of this, I agree with both of you. Well, I don't think he's trying to play both sides because I don't think he's intelligent enough to do that. Definitely not. Well, it's not even playing one D chess. Yeah, he didn't think things through. So his own party obviously wanted to push forward the immigration issue, but...

Chad (33:45.464)

I didn't say he was playing 4D chess, okay?

Emi B (34:00.258)

He didn't actually realize the long-term effects of this, which is now what he's hearing from, like I said, the farming industry, the hospitality industry, the construction industry, because all of those industries are largely made up of immigrants. Like you said, they're made up of people who are doing jobs, very long hours, sometimes very hard, physically demanding jobs, sometimes six days a week that Americans generally don't want to do. They want to do your knowledge-based work.

Chad (34:13.656)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (34:29.614)

which is in the office space work, not your manufacturing jobs that he wants to get back or the physical type of jobs. So it's good, like I say, that he's now feeling the effects of this. It's good now he's now admitting that his policies are now hurting American industries. What he does about it, I'm not actually too sure. I'm interested to see where he's going to go.

But he does have to back down from my point of view. If he wants to stay in power, if he wants to appease his government, his party, he's going to have to do something to try and kind of, I suppose, make both sides happy to some extent. And that is why he's going down the route of, yes, he's going to protect the farmers, he's going to protect the hospitality sector, but he's going to ignore the other sectors and still force, you know, the immigration raids on, you know, the other types of jobs.

Joel Cheesman (35:11.245)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (35:25.848)

But I think what's eventually going to happen is that American employers are going to, they're going to push back. They're going to start demanding solutions like they're doing already. They're going to, they're seeing their industries crippling. They're seeing farmers farming industries losing money. They can't, they can't replace them with American workers because American workers maybe will not work the longer hours, will not work the however many days a week. And that's going to put their business, you know, you know, put their business out. So.

he's in a tough situation at the moment, but this could be the thing that, or one of the many things that will hopefully make sure that he doesn't return to power in four years time.

Chad (36:05.71)

can only hope.

Joel Cheesman (36:06.038)

confusion is the worst part because people just don't do anything. Like, I don't know if we're going to have immigrants, if they're going to be fucking arrested tomorrow. So there's this, this whole like stoppage in business and

Emi B (36:16.566)

I think they'll just concentrate on a couple of industries. don't like, you yeah. No.

Chad (36:19.812)

It doesn't work that way, Emmy. It doesn't work that way. No, because you have some people that are working in farming, same families. And then some people are working at the Home Depot and so on and so forth. That's not how communities work, right? That's not how communities work. Not to mention, we talk about farming. He's already hurt the farming industry by killing USAID. That used to be $2 billion of revenue to American farmers. Used to be $2 billion. It's not anymore.

Emi B (36:26.616)

Yeah.

Emi B (36:32.044)

Well, I suppose they, yeah, you can't just get rid of one.

Emi B (36:43.009)

Hmm.

Emi B (36:48.525)

Yeah.

Chad (36:48.888)

So there is no, he's got to please people. He's only pleasing one person and that's himself. He takes a nap, he forgot what he just said. I mean, that's what it is. So I wish it was as easy to say, hey, look, why don't we just leave these people alone over here? They're all connected. They're all connected. They see their friends and family getting deported. What do you think that makes them feel like? And what do think they're gonna do? They're getting the hell out.

Emi B (37:01.431)

Yeah.

Emi B (37:15.235)

Yeah.

But isn't that what he's doing at the moment by his appeasing the farming and the hospitality sector at the moment? Yeah. Yeah.

Chad (37:18.338)

Right, so there.

Chad (37:23.448)

He's saying it, it's not happening. Again, there are videos of ice running across fields, mean, might as well call it abducting people, for goodness sake. So yeah, it's all bullshit to be quite frank.

Emi B (37:30.264)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (37:38.84)

To me, you can narrow it down to two things. Trump likes money and he likes to be liked. And if you start with that, with everything he says and does, it kind of starts to make sense. think you mentioned the next election presidential, it's not that late. He has midterms in 18 months or so. That's his window to get as rich as possible.

Emi B (37:46.062)

I'm Power.

Emi B (37:55.456)

Well, yeah.

Emi B (38:02.306)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (38:06.144)

and not totally go down in history as an, a total dipshit. And he's trying to balance that and the shit like the Trump phone and the crypto shit and what he's, what's going on in the middle East. Like it's all about Trump getting rich and Trump being liked and being, you know, like when, the Saudis bring him under the middle East brings them in and the plane is yours and the luxury shit. And like, that's what he likes. He is not comfortable. He left the G seven meeting in Canada.

Chad (38:07.822)

And he is.

Chad (38:15.396)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (38:31.906)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (38:36.128)

A beautiful part, beautiful part of Canada, by the way, Chad left because he doesn't like dealing with that shit. He doesn't like bureaucracy and democracy and I got to get consensus. Like I'm out of here. Cause you talking to you, European people piss just like aggravate me. I'm out of here. Take me back to the middle East where it's a bunch of authoritarians with a lot of money, having nice dinners and shit. That's what he likes, not the Europe stuff. So to me, like if you narrow it down to money and like,

Chad (38:47.852)

It's like governing. Yes.

Emi B (38:56.172)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (39:01.656)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (39:05.824)

You can understand Trump a lot better than if you try to, I don't know, pretzel your brain into figuring out what the hell he's talking about. He doesn't, the communication's awful. Marco Rubio comes, you know, after, Israeli bombs and says, Israeli acted, Israel acted unilaterally to bomb us had nothing to do with this. If anybody bombs the us we're coming for you. And then Trump right. Like throws that away by saying like, yeah.

Chad (39:24.578)

Yes. Yes.

Chad (39:32.004)

Took a nap, got up, yes.

Joel Cheesman (39:33.92)

Yeah, we knew about it. We're involved. We green light like so it's so fucked up. It's so fucked up. anyway, it's, it's like, it's like being at, it's like being at Amazon. anyway, so let's go to our next story. Amazon CEO Andy, Andy Jassy anticipates AI will reduce the company's corporate workforce in the coming years as it implements more generative AI and agents for internal operations.

Emi B (39:34.062)

Yeah.

Totally contradicted him, yeah.

Chad (39:41.238)

It is.

Chad (39:47.268)

you

Joel Cheesman (39:58.624)

In a blog post, Jassy said they'll need fewer people doing some of the jobs that are being done today, but more people doing other types of jobs." quote. And I'd expect there to be fewer driving jobs as Amazon reportedly hopes to start dropping 10,000 robo-taxes yearly through its recent acquisition of Zoox back in 2020. Chad, is Amazon putting a banana in our tailpipe and are we going to fall for it?

Chad (40:27.18)

Yeah, people aren't paying attention. yeah, we'll definitely, definitely fall for it. So we've, we've sat on the show for years, no matter who's in charge, Bezos or Jassy, they want to cut overhead and create wider margins. The easiest way to do that is to cut out humans and replace them with robots or automations. It's funny because we just recorded an episode earlier this week on the Europe show. It'll drop next week where we talked about Amazon posturing with European.

countries boasting the investments Amazon is making in several countries, Germany, UK, France, yeah, so on and so forth, because they want more European market share. since tariffs are hurting US and people are pulling back from spending, where can they go where tariffs aren't hurting them? They're going to try to get into Europe. Zoox on the other hand,

Joel Cheesman (41:03.704)

cross.

Emi B (41:20.535)

Europe.

Chad (41:25.348)

They have approximately 4,000 employees, which is pretty good growth. It's up from 2200 and 22, no, 2023. So two years, almost doubling in size. The company is expanding its workforce and it continues to develop the testing automation stuff. I think this is going to be interesting as you've done the way Mo, Joel, Tesla has been talking about automations and Tesla taxis for, yeah, coming soon for

Joel Cheesman (41:46.732)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (41:50.968)

Coming soon. Coming soon for 10 years.

Chad (41:54.626)

Yeah, the last decade, right? And then then Amazon put some money into this. mean, we've got some very, very big players, Google, Amazon, Tesla. This is going this is what I see, where I see innovation actually happening. And I hope Google and Amazon eat fucking Elon's lunch on this.

Emi B (41:55.288)

Ha

Emi B (42:17.464)

Fingers crossed, fingers crossed.

dear.

Joel Cheesman (42:22.348)

You know, I, there's a, there's a podcast, British guy runs called diary of a CEO. And it was really interesting this week. he interviewed a guy who's known as the godfather of AI, guy named Jeffrey Hinton, who's who's English as well. I mean, he'll appreciate that. and I'm, I'm so, back and forth when I hear, people say like there's, it's going to create more jobs than it does. Mark Cuban's like,

Chad (42:28.366)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (42:28.76)

Steven Bartlett.

Emi B (42:38.03)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (42:51.896)

This is going to be great, but then also people that it's doomsday. so this guy, he was out there at the beginning and he's got a, he's got a great opinion, but it's not, it's not shiny, happy people. I'm going to play this and then, uh, come back and comment on the other side.

Joel Cheesman (43:54.434)

So I don't know exactly, you I don't know what's going to happen, but I, but I do think Amazon, Microsoft meta, all of Elon stuff, they do believe that all of these jobs will be replaced. when I, when I see Amazon saying, Hey, we're weaning ourselves off, there'll be, there'll be fewer people, even though the new jobs will be created. And then you have Microsoft, they're planning to cut a lot of salespeople, in the thousands number, they employ a lot of people.

Chad (44:22.136)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (44:24.596)

So whether or not, I don't know what the future holds, but I do believe that all the tech companies out there do believe that we can do everything with AI. And we're seeing that this is the canary in the coal mine to me. We're going to see all the big companies and big tech do this. If it works, you're going to start seeing the SMBs do it. And you're going to see products created by the likes of Amazon that make it easier to replace human workers. And we'll see how it turns out, but I do think they believe that this is the route. And we're seeing that unfold with these stories like the ones from Amazon.

Emi B (44:53.678)

I agree with you there. think this is the tip of the iceberg. Lots of companies are already doing this. It's nothing new. I think it's going to hit the knowledge workers. So the people who, like myself in HR, people in finance, for example, we have a lot of administrative parts of our job which can be automated. Fine. I do believe that means that it's an opportunity for our roles to evolve.

because so much of our time, so much of my time is spent doing admin that I don't actually need to do. So hopefully with the introduction of AI, introduction of different types of technology, it means that we'd be able to add more value to an organization. But I think that the message that Andy Jassy had to his employees was a good one and is a good one in the fact that people have to get ready for this. This is a reality. This is not something that is not hypothetical anymore.

We know that AI is here. Great. Well, what does that mean for us? If we want to future proof our jobs, we need to put ourselves in a stronger situation. So if you're not good with AI at the moment, get good. If that means going to workshops, experimenting with tools, building prototypes, that is what you need to do right now, today, to future proof your job. Because otherwise, you're going to be left behind.

you're not going to have a job to go to, or you're definitely not going to have the job you have now in the future.

Chad (46:20.292)

So it's really hard to do that today because people are working full-time jobs or more than one full-time job, right? So it's hard to actually do those things. Now, when he was talking about ditch digging and those types of things back in those days and before the 80s, companies used to spend a lot of money on upskilling and developing their employees as a part of work. They don't do that anymore.

Emi B (46:27.298)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chad (46:50.252)

It is, it's not something that is ingrained in the actual systems, right? They wait for the government to be able to do that. They wait for, you know, schools to do that. So we literally just talked to Patrick McGee last week, the episode dropped this week about Apple in China. Apple spends $55 billion a year in China to help upskill

their workers. They've trained 28 million workers. They've spent $55 billion a year. That's not happening in the US. That's not happening in many, The UK is a mini US. It really is. It's unfortunate. It's unfortunate, but it really is. But that money's not being spent. So the upskilling and development isn't happening. That's not happening. you

Emi B (47:18.84)

Wow. Yeah.

Emi B (47:26.306)

Not happening in UK. Yeah.

Emi B (47:30.958)

Baby America, yeah.

Chad (47:44.224)

If it has to be all on my shoulders and I'm working two to three fucking jobs, when am I going to do it? Right. So we're in this much like Joel said earlier, this catch 22 position ourselves, and we're being told to do all these different things. And I'm trying to make rent. Right. Companies have to start putting money into their people. Period. Upskilling development. Those are the things that we have to do. If we don't do those, shit's going to collapse.

Emi B (47:46.414)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (48:11.63)

But if the organization doesn't provide that, like you said, the onus is on you to find time. And I agree, it's not easy. People are busy. People are working long hours. But people have to start thinking ahead in the future. So that time that you spent, you know, I don't know, like, you know, kind of watching TV maybe on a weekend, you you could spend an hour a week. You could spend an hour a week just learning a new skill. It might not be everything. You might just learn.

1 % more than you did last week, but those 1 % add up. So in the future, you're going to be in a better situation.

Joel Cheesman (48:47.48)

I fear that if Jesse really believed that if we just upscale people, they'll be fine, then Amazon would pay for these people to be upskilled or learn new skills. What he is saying is, best of luck to you. There'll be some jobs left. I don't know who's going to get them, but you need to have certain skills. mean, if he really believed that Amazon would put up and train these people for the new jobs of the future that he's talking about.

Chad (49:01.156)

margins.

Emi B (49:05.816)

you

Joel Cheesman (49:17.334)

I don't know that he thinks there are jobs in the future. Otherwise, who would be training his people for that? Or doesn't know what they are.

Chad (49:22.008)

or doesn't know what they are. Yeah.

Emi B (49:23.806)

No, you don't know what new jobs are going to come up in the future, but he also hasn't said that he's not going to invest in his employees. He just said to get ready. So hopefully, Later. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (49:32.482)

Correct. Correct. Which is very, which is very American. Good luck to you. Hey, we might, there might be a job here or not. Go train yourself and figure it out and then we'll bring you back. Rugged individualism, capitalism on the way up, socialism on the way down, everybody.

Chad (49:40.672)

It's rugged individualism, rugged individualism.

Emi B (49:48.334)

you

Joel Cheesman (49:52.108)

By the way, I was so pissed off. got fooled by an AI video for the first time. I thought it was real. And I was like, God damn it. Even I got fooled. So God, this shit's common. People are going to be fooled for like news stories and all right. When we come back, we'll, we'll talk a little zoom and Klarna.

Emi B (50:00.622)

Chad (50:00.928)

it... dude. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Joel Cheesman (50:13.368)

All right. Welcome back to the feel good episode of the Chad and she's podcast zoom zoom CEO. Eric Yon believes, work life balance is unattainable for leaders to tech are dedicating his life to zoom and his family. probably in that order, he acknowledges the challenges Gen Z faces in the job market and the potential job displacement by AI, but envisions a future with shorter work weeks, possibly two or three days in the future.

Chad (50:15.992)

You

Joel Cheesman (50:40.086)

Meanwhile, Klarna CEO, always in the news, has launched an AI powered hotline where users can provide feedback to an interactive AI version of himself. Dystopia on steroids. Chad, your thoughts.

Chad (50:55.876)

love that Eric Yoon saying the quiet part out loud, right? I mean, he's saying that I gave up all my hobbies. You should too. Well, you're the fucking CEO. I don't get your compensation, right? I don't have your shares. don't, I don't, yeah, I don't have any of that stuff, right? So you want me to work as hard as you. You can fuck off. But this is beautiful. This is beautiful because now everybody who might've applied to Zoom before, they know what that company's about. They know what to expect.

Joel Cheesman (51:06.837)

Yep. Jamie Dimon.

Emi B (51:10.901)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (51:25.068)

right? So I appreciate that. do appreciate that. I he's an asshole for saying it, but that's what he thinks and that's how he runs his company. Okay, great. Now you know, don't apply, right? Beware, right? That's what's going to happen. On the the Klarna front, I mean, I've said it before, I hate Klarna's micro loan sharking business with a passion, but I gotta say Sebastian knows how to keep the news outlets and socials buzzing.

This is exactly what companies should be doing instead of leaving someone on hold or asking them to fill out an old style fucking feedback form. Why not ask them to go ahead and provide that feedback to the AIC CEO, right? Plus these conversations are data that's training the models with every single interaction. So I don't like corner, but I do. I think this is smart.

Emi B (52:18.872)

think it's a bit weird though, don't you think?

Chad (52:22.328)

Joel couldn't tell whether that fake was fake or not, right? I don't know that it's weird. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (52:26.134)

mean, they're doing quarterly reports with an AI, whatever, analyst or whatever that is. So this is their brand.

Emi B (52:31.575)

Yeah.

Chad (52:31.672)

Yeah, I-

Yeah?

Emi B (52:35.074)

I know. See, I'm with you. didn't, to be honest, I didn't know too much about Klana other than the brand name before, you know, kind of joining the show, but everything I read about Sebastian, I'm just like, you are an odd individual, really odd. And are all Swedes odd? Okay. I had no idea. I haven't met enough Swedes. And like, look, I suppose everything I read about him means I shouldn't actually be surprised because I read somewhere that he leaned into AI.

Chad (52:48.504)

He's Swedish. He's Swedish.

Joel Cheesman (52:49.324)

He's Swedish, yeah, that just suck.

Emi B (53:04.782)

you know, to read his last earning calls or one of his earning call script for him. I was like, okay, that's weird. Now you're having this AI hotline, which apparently lets you feel like you're talking to him, but you're actually talking to an AI clone of him. It's strange. But you're right. It collects data. It's apparently that data or the data that they get from the call is transcribed, is summarized, is put into innovation dashboard. And apparently in 24 hours, they can act on

Chad (53:08.9)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (53:32.398)

For example, if you said there's a bug 24 hours, it's not gonna be a bug anymore the next day. So yeah, I can see some benefits from that point of view, but I still think that people want to speak to a human at the end of the day. And I don't think you can get customer service fully automated in this way. yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a weirdo. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Chad (53:40.036)

Mm.

Chad (53:49.772)

It's just creepy. You feel like it's creepy. I get it. get it. I get it. Well, now.

Joel Cheesman (53:53.026)

That'll, that'll end, that'll end. It'll feel like a person at some point. I'm waiting for their job. I'm waiting for their recruitment to have like the AI CEO, talk to you about the job and give you the job description interview. This guy, this guy's going to be interviewing everyone at some point because he's, he's clearly, he wasn't hugged much as a child. He needs a lot of attention. which sweet, sweet Swedes aren't known for their loving demeanor. So, I mean, it's not, it's not that surprising.

Chad (54:04.93)

Interview.

Emi B (54:09.869)

Yeah

Emi B (54:13.807)

Yeah! Let me talk to everybody!

Are you sure? I need some sweets. Can we just...

Chad (54:20.708)

Good.

Joel Cheesman (54:23.032)

They're a little cold. They're a little cold, uh, figuratively and, and literally, but, um, and I, I always find that, that zoom is a brand. they're not, if they're not like fully remote work life balance, like your zoom, your whole brand is like, I can be at home and, like work life. So it's, it's always, I think a brand killer for them when they talk about there's no work life balance. You got to get back to the office, which they've done. so we haven't had a buzzword in a while.

Emi B (54:39.116)

Yeah.

Chad (54:42.626)

Weird.

Joel Cheesman (54:51.884)

You remember quiet quitting. You remember the great recession, like all the things. So there's new one now it's called the infinite work day. I don't know why that's just now catching on. but so new research from Microsoft found that 40 % of people are checking emails, before they're out of bed before 6 AM and nearly a third check back in after 10 PM as an employee. And we're also finding from the survey that 20 % of workers do work on their days off.

Chad (54:55.416)

No.

Emi B (54:59.758)

Jeez.

Emi B (55:13.55)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (55:21.676)

So even if you're remote now, you're working all the goddamn time. It's no, it's no, it's no surprise that people are losing their shit. burnout is real. there was an article about, yeah, working from home. Cause you're not, you're dealing with work and then by, the dog needs a walk. like the sitter needs like all these things need to be done and you're pulled in both directions. People are losing it and something's got to be done about that. I think.

Chad (55:31.982)

Burn out.

Joel Cheesman (55:51.33)

to really ease all the stress, Chad. We need a dad joke.

Emi B (55:56.418)

Okay

Chad (56:00.228)

We'll see if this eases anything. Go ahead.

Joel Cheesman (56:01.696)

Alright guys, alright guys, what, what, what, come on, all my, these are awesome.

Emi B (56:01.748)

I'm thinking no, I'm thinking not.

Emi B (56:09.366)

Ave, ave, day.

Joel Cheesman (56:12.652)

That's right. what does, what does masturbation and brain damage have in common? What does masturbation and brain damage have in common? Not bad. after a few strokes, there's nothing else to do. There's no turning back.

Chad (56:17.806)

Joel Cheeseman.

Emi B (56:18.99)

There you go, there's the answer.

Emi B (56:30.885)

gods, gods!

Joel Cheesman (56:34.912)

Emmy, we'll see you soon. Chad, we out.

Emi B (56:36.32)

Yes. Yeah, I'm definitely out.