The Emperor's New Eightfold


Halloween is right around the corner, and this episode of HR's most dangerous podcast is full of tricks and treats. For companies like Eightfold, Jobsync, The Mom Project, Gem, Jobscore and Burger King, the bag of goodies is full of M&Ms, Snickers and Reese's. But who got a rock? The Charlie Browns on this week's show include TikTok wannabe Heroes Jobs, MySpace wannabe Everyone Social and has-been Monster. Sorry, we can't compete with the horrors of Election Day and a global pandemic, but for talent acquisition, this week's podcast is right up there with The Exorcist and Poltergeist.


As always, Sovren, JobAdx and Jobvite are the ones filling our goodie bag. PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:

Disability Solutions helps forward thinking employers create world class hiring and retention programs for people with disabilities.


INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.


Joel (20s):

Oh yeah. COVID is spiking around the globe. The stock market is crashing and election day is coming and Oh yeah. Halloween is right around the corner. So how's your week going? This is the Chad and cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel GDP Cheeseman.


Chad (40s):

And I'm Chad "Freddy Krueger" Sowash.


Joel (43s):

On this week's show. Eight-fold more like a billion fold. Am I right?


Chad (47s):

Am I right?


Joel (48s):

TikTok for jobs is finally here and clowns!


Chad (53s):

Yes!


Joel (53s):

Be very, very afraid.


Jobvite PROMO (56s):

Jobvite the leading end to end talent acquisition suite. Named a leader in ATS, recruitment, marketing, CRM, and onboarding on G2. Kim B says "Jobvite is a user friendly passionate enterprise team that takes care of you. Jolly good." Jeffrey R says, "candidates are constantly telling us we get it right compared to other orgs." Love that! Results driven by AI. Connections built by humans. Jobvite, learn how you can evolve your TA function at jobvite.com.


Chad (1m 26s):

Poppy cock!


Joel (1m 29s):

Cheerio.


Chad (1m 31s):

All right, kids. It's Halloween. It's Halloween! Round two of the scariest movie characters polls. Here we go. Leatherface from the chainsaw massacre, Texas Chainsaw Massacre versus Freddy "Nightmare on Elm Street" Kruger and Freddy wins in a runaway kids. Wow!


Joel (1m 53s):

Was this an actual poll that you had?


Chad (1m 54s):

Yeah, I did a poll on LinkedIn.


Joel (1m 57s):

See, Freddy, Freddy was scary as shit in the first one, but by the last one he's like break dancing and wrestling Hulk Hogan. So I don't know which Freddy they were talking about. I'd go Leatherface all day.


Chad (2m 9s):

Yeah. So that's what happens when you have like 27 sequels? I mean, it's like, it just gets out of hand. It's like Jason and Friday the 13th.


Joel (2m 21s):

Yeah. When the cast of, you know, Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure shows up on your horror film, it's probably time to give up the game.


Chad (2m 29s):

You probably jumped the shark. Yes.


Joel (2m 31s):

Shout Out to voting.


Chad (2m 32s):

Voting!


Joel (2m 33s):

God Dammit. Where's MTV's Rock the Vote when you need it. Tuesday, I've already voted. You probably have too.


Chad (2m 41s):

Oh yeah!


Joel (2m 41s):

In fact I'm pretty sure that you have, but if you haven't man.


Chad (2m 44s):

Weeks ago.


Joel (2m 44s):

But if you haven't man, everybody vote. That's how you get shit done. Don't break windows. Don't beat up. People go vote. Very important.


Chad (2m 52s):

Don't put that shit in the mail right now because the mail is running about 10 fucking days behind. Hand carry that shit and drop it off. Just don't put it in the mail now because it's not going to make it!


Joel (3m 5s):

Yeah.


Chad (3m 5s):

Shout out to Parker Pell out of Memphis who loves the podcast and uses the Chad and Cheese to help him with his own podcast called the Inchternship Show Parker. You might want to think twice about that, buddy. Hans Mangelschots. We've got the best fucking listener names, Hans Mangelschots. And you think it's B it would be like at a Germany or Belgium or something. No, he's in Silicon Valley. He loves the podcast as well. Hans, Parker did all your friends, peers, family, subscribe, listen, go to Chadcheese.com or wherever you listen to podcasts.


Joel (3m 44s):

By the way, while we're waxing nostalgic on the nineties, do you remember a Parker Lewis can't lose.


Chad (3m 50s):

Yeah, God.


Joel (3m 52s):

That starts some dude that went to Broad Ripple High School here in Indianapolis. Anyway, tangent Shout Out to our buddies, Tyler Weeks and Bill Fanning both have new gigs. Tyler's gone from Intel to Hired, Hired a what is it?


Chad (4m 11s):

Hired Scored.


Joel (4m 12s):

Hired Scored, Hired Score. Yeah. Anyway, work on that brand. Bill Fanning. Where'd he end up?


Chad (4m 19s):

He is now at This Way Global with Angela Hood and the AI for jobs claim.


Joel (4m 27s):

Oh, nice. Well, good luck guys. Keep listening to this show no matter where you're working.


Chad (4m 32s):

That's right. We have a listener question, Joel. This one's from Matthew Woodcock. You know that dude.


Joel (4m 38s):

Is that his porn name? What did we get these names this week?


Chad (4m 42s):

Should I use or not use LinkedIn to talk about topics like politics, social justice and other things I'm passionate about outside of work?


Joel (4m 53s):

On LinkedIn?


Chad (4m 54s):

Yes.


Joel (4m 55s):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, LinkedIn is basically Facebook in 2012 with stories. And, and since they have stories, I'd say it's anything is fair game. Now again, with stories, they disappear in 24 hours. So if you want to like test this theory and see how it goes over, like post a few stories, see how it goes, see how many views you get. And if there's no big backlash, like roll with it.


Chad (5m 18s):

I think we are way too pensive. And we get this whole it's unprofessional to post things in your own public space. That's my profile page. That's my stream. And as an employer, who's built teams and managed teams over the years. I want somebody who's going to come to me, who is real, not fake and plastic and bullshit. So if you play this that's unprofessional game. That to me just turns me off. I want to know who the real person is that I'm going to be working with day in, day out. And if you're just playing that cosmetic Barbie bullshit game, that's not the type of person that I want. So again, I think this is, it's a personal opinion and you feel about more space, but that is my space on LinkedIn.


Chad (6m 2s):

If you don't like it ...


Joel (6m 4s):

Don't follow me.


Chad (6m 5s):

Don't follow me. It's that Fucking easy.


Joel (6m 6s):

By the way, I, I posted a picture on our eightfold shred that we did. And it's a unicorn in a donut, like the floaties in the pool.


Chad (6m 16s):

Yeah.


Joel (6m 17s):

And someone literally messaged me and said, is that a unicorn having sex with a donut? I'm not sure that's really appropriate for LinkedIn. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Like I know, I'm I know I, I am who I am, but I'm not like posting unicorn sex with pastries on LinkedIn. Like, dude really gets your mind out of the gutter. I know it's 2020, but shit unicorn fucking a donut? Nice.


Chad (6m 42s):

There were sprinkles on the donut too. I believe so. Come on. People just pay attention.


Joel (6m 47s):

Multicolored, multicolored, sprinkles, all white sprinkles I might ... Anyway shout out to sponsor Recruitology and Job Score on a job score on SMB ATS, Dan Arkin, a friend of the show and fan of the show. They partnered up to provide programmatic advertising to Jobs Scores clients. So a Shout Out to them for doing some good stuff for the SMBs out there.


Chad (7m 12s):

Very nice, very nice. Shout Out to Christie Weymouth from Indianapolis, right around the corner from you, man. She loves the podcast and the industry insights and Christie. Guess what we love you. And we love you even more when you share the podcast!


Joel (7m 28s):

Most definitely have fun there at Jobvite. Hopefully one day we'll get to visit the headquarters and say, hi. Shout out to iCIMS new logo. I did my own polling this week and out of 76 votes, 53% prefer the new logos. So Susan Vitale, it wasn't a wrong answer. It was a right answer when you change that logo.


Chad (7m 55s):

That's right. For some reason last week we had a listener question and everybody's asking us questions. So here's another question from a listener who wanted to stay anonymous and you'll know why, here in a second. Here's here's from the listener. I've noticed some high level white dudes in talent acquisition with diversity and inclusion in their title. Okay, Joel. So I want you to answer this. If you had, if you personally had as a white dude, a diversity and inclusion experience, would you accept the high level position or title in DNI?


Joel (8m 31s):

This whole fat of like putting me on the spot with these questions is going to be done. Cause last week you asked me about ghosting and I'm like, why is he fucking asking me about ghosting? And I came up with some story about not finding a babysitter so I can like, that's a landmine for me. Any DNI question for me is super landmine. I mean, I'm going to lean yes on this one. I think.


Chad (8m 53s):

So you would, you would take the position?


Joel (8m 55s):

I think so. Yeah.


Chad (8m 56s):

Okay. Yeah. I wouldn't!


Joel (8m 58s):

See!


Chad (8m 59s):

This is an opinion. This is there's no right or wrong answer, except mine is right.


Joel (9m 3s):

Oh, there's the right answer.


Chad (9m 4s):

Yeah. I don't think I personally, those positions are focused on being able to drive equity and seeing a white dude in that position, I really think sends like the wrong message, not just to the organization, but everybody outside of the organization. So personally, if somebody offered me a position that had DNI, in it at all, I would say, "No."


Joel (9m 28s):

All right. Let's, let's set a rule that in the future, if it's not a question about like, you know, QR codes, don't ask me, just save it, man.


Chad (9m 37s):

No more questions for Cheeseman people.


Joel (9m 39s):

Yeah. We should do more questions. Anyway. Shout Out to Jeremy Roberts looking really good in that Superfly, Chad and Cheese t-shirt that he posts. You're going to see more of these around the internet as we send those out and kids, if you want a free t-shirt you gotta play the game. You gotta go to Chadcheese.com/free. That's Chad cheese.com backslash free. If you want to look like one of the cool kids.


Chad (10m 5s):

No. Yeah. Jeremy doesn't get a Shout Out on this one. He like blocked out his face. I mean, there's the t-shirt that's there. Yeah. If you want to do, if you want to do a selfie with the Chad and Cheese t-shirt you can learn from Jeremy and not doing what he did.


Joel (10m 22s):

Did he explain why he, he blocked out his face?


Chad (10m 25s):

He, he didn't. I don't know. He's afraid of somebody like sharing it or something. Fuck. I don't know.


Joel (10m 32s):

Didn't look like he was getting busted or something and some, a drug under an undercover drug ring or something. Geez


Chad (10m 38s):

Oh, God. Tell me about Beer Drop.


Joel (10m 40s):

Beer Drop is the bomb! Dude. So if you, if you need, if you need some beer and goddammit, it's 2020, and what's going on, everybody needs a drink. Chad and Cheese are making it a little easier. We're giving out free beer, sponsored by our buddies at Ad Zoona. And I can announce October's winner. Yes. If you'd like? It's Jennifer Shanahan.


Chad (11m 7s):

Yeah!!!!


Joel (11m 8s):

So Jennifer, if you haven't got it already, by the time you listen to this, a good assortment of IPA's cause that's what she chose is coming your way. We're going to do a little zoom tasting with her probably next week or the week after. Whenever her schedule is free to do that. We're going to talk with her, have some beer and, and have a laugh. But yes, if you want to be like Jennifer, enjoying some free beer, go to beerdrop.net. That's beerdrop.net.


Chad (11m 38s):

And dude, there's like 20 beers that are going to be sent to her. I mean, that is legit. And they're all, I mean an assortment of different IPA's! When you sent me the list I, I had to give you major kudos. You did a great job Cheeseman.


Joel (11m 55s):

Thank you! Thank you. Yeah, we don't play on this show. We're not, we're not sending like a six, a Corona worse than being like the real craft local bomb shit to people.


Chad (12m 7s):

So get their chadcheese.com/free. Not to mention you could perspectively win a t-shirt and a bunch of other shit that we could be giving out throughout the rest of this year. And next year!


Joel (12m 18s):

We might send you some JobadX shit. Who knows?


Chad (12m 20s):

Who knows? Who knows?


Joel (12m 22s):

If you don't have Chad and Cheese in your pocket, you're missing some of the big news flashes in our industry. You don't have to wait till Friday. Just text CC. That's the letter C and C to (833) 799-0321. And as I understand it, we're even in the UK now?


Chad (12m 40s):

We're we're testing or testing in the UK.


Joel (12m 43s):

So Gordo, hopefully we're going to be in Scotland there soon. And so you can get our updates


Chad (12m 49s):

And t-shirts and Chad and Xheese in your pocket powered by emissary.ai.


Joel (12m 56s):

Oh yeah. By the way, a little tease we're going to really make the holiday special this year. So make sure you listen to the show. We've got a special thing coming. That's all I'm going to say, right?


Chad (13m 7s):

Oh dude. Yeah. I'm excited about it right now. Topics!


Joel (13m 14s):

Topics!


Chad (13m 14s):

All right. So if you have subscribed to Chad and Cheese in your pocket, you would have already known this because we sent it pretty much as soon as it happened. So Eight Fold got some cash. Tell us about it.


Joel (13m 27s):

Jeez. Major bucks. So these guys are only four years old, which is pretty incredible. San Francisco Bay area based a recruiting firm. They are, they are looking to be the platform for everything. We heare, we joke about the, from hi to hiring. That's sort of like, they want to be everything. They raise $125 million in series D a grand total of 180 million. They have a valuation now of $1 billion, which makes them officially a unicorn.


Chad (13m 58s):

So bloated!


Joel (13m 58s):

In the startup world. We don't, we don't get a lot of those in recruitment, but, but these guys have come on 110 countries. They're in 17 industries, they're 13 languages. One of the things that I saw that I thought was really interesting in terms of quotes was the CEO said, you know, "the Eightfold team has been last four years, developing a single platform, servicing all talent, lifecycle needs, bypassing single point solutions entirely. This is the future of our industry." And to me, the whole like no single point solutions is pretty interesting. They want to be everything to every body. Can they pull it off? I don't know. I'm a little skeptical, but we're going to have to see.


Joel (14m 40s):

I also think that with evaluation like this, an IPO is in their future. And one of the investors alluded that that was probably very likely. So I think this'll be a really interesting company to watch over the next couple of years. And a lot of investors think the same. They're they're really tackling the enterprise. They've talked about business going through the roof since the pandemic has hit. So a lot of things going right for these guys, hitting things at the right time. The trends of automation, sort of virtual productivity and employee engagement that we've seen since the pandemic, these guys are in that, in that wheelhouse.


Joel (15m 21s):

And we'll see a lot of people are battling for this one platform to roll all. You've been down in it in the past. I assume you still are critical of it. We'll just have to see, but it's pretty clear that money is going into that corner. And we'll see who comes out on top. If anybody.


Chad (15m 37s):

Yeah. I spoke to about 20 different people about this.


Joel (15m 42s):

You know, 20 people? Damn


Chad (15m 44s):

The response from a few of them and I kid you not, it was the exact same response, "this is whacked!"


Joel (15m 51s):

As in the company's whacked? Or the investments whacked or both?


Chad (15m 55s):

Let me get into it. And anyone who's ever listened to this podcast knows that I am a big fan of matching tech. It's the hardest, it's the hardest working tech in the industry and could easily facilitate faster, better candidate placements hires. And it's a great market validation for anyone in the space, but I am not a big fan of this move. You can take that. There is a thing where you take too much money and they, what do they need $180 million in funding to do? I mean, what are they going to do with it? Are they going to develop something that's going to compete with the ATS market? I mean, because ATSs, are already integrating with this type of tech in their platform, iCIMS acquired Andre Wade and, and, and her opening.io, Angela Hood and AI for jobs is, is deeply integrated into Salesforce.


Chad (16m 50s):

Our buddy, Robert Ruff sponsor Sovren, pretty much owns the vendor space and then Hired Scored, I had to put them in there because now they have Tyler Weeks and Athena Karp. So exactly what's going to be different and what's so damn revolutionary?


Joel (17m 7s):

Well, so these guys are super ambitious. Another quote from the founder was "Our mission is to leverage our expertise in AI to provide the right career for everyone in the world." So...


Chad (17m 20s):

Come on.


Joel (17m 20s):

That's the ambition that they have. So...


Chad (17m 23s):

Come on.


Joel (17m 24s):

In terms of scale and, and, and achieving that dream, it might take $180 million.


Chad (17m 30s):

So taking this much money, knocks them off just about all acquisition targets.


Joel (17m 37s):

Yeah. Like maybe 10 companies would do it and their names, their name, Microsoft and Google, and


Chad (17m 43s):

I have two scenarios. Number one, they can use this, these dollars for acquisitions to fill gaps, okay. Because to think that they don't have gaps is nothing but naive. Number two, they can run hard with integration combined with a killer sales and marketing team to drive revenue quickly in the hopes that a money pit like SAP acquires them. I think a company like that could perspectively be a target, but most of the other targets just fell away.


Joel (18m 13s):

Yeah.


Chad (18m 13s):

This is, this is not a core system. They've just shown their hand to other core platforms. And if a core platform doesn't currently have matching tech to be able to match what they're trying to do, I'm going to say, I predict that that will happen. You also have to remember when you are a Jack of all, you are a master of none. If they could of focused, not taking so much money, they could have focused. And the market was already, already validated in the matching space as it was and just ran hard after that. I think there, there could have been something there, but going on this trajectory, I think personally, I think they're fucked.


Joel (18m 53s):

So, all right. So Chad is weighed in.


Crowd (18m 54s):

Booo.


Joel (18m 55s):

That's a big, big, boo. Let's, let's play a quick game of Who'd You Rather? So we talked about Handshake, I think last week, getting, was it 80 million around?


Crowd (19m 7s):

Yeah.


Joel (19m 7s):

And these guys just got her 125, would you rather, but you know, would you rather have the money in Handshake at that, at that kind of valuation or, or Eightfold?


Chad (19m 18s):

Handshake? Okay. When you take a look at Handshake or somebody who is more focused in a niche, they know I'm sorry, but $180 million is not enough to make you a leader in this industry.


Joel (19m 29s):

Fair enough. Fair enough. Time will tell. I'm going to get on record as saying I'd rather be in Eightfold's corner as opposed to Handshake. And in five years, we'll do a show and see who's right and who's wrong.


Chad (19m 41s):

They both kick ass, take names. And we, and we can actually take a look at some, some business cases around this because everybody that I've talked, I mean, everybody that I talked to, they were all like, that's way too much money, too much money, too fast.


Joel (19m 56s):

Well, someone I think we can agree is a wrong bet is going to be Monster who was in the news this week, they've partnered with Job Sync or should say Death Match winner, Job Sync. They're integrating with monster to streamline the apply process. You know, I think it's, this is similar to Monster outsourcing video to video my job. It's, it's a situation of, we'd rather outsource it, use someone else's tech than try to buy it or try to either buy it or build it ourselves. And I think that in, in hindsight, when we look at the story with CareerBuilder and the outage that they had, and a lot of that was like, okay, let's call back all the engineers that we fired to me.


Joel (20m 43s):

This is a real nice juxtaposition with Eightfold and saying, Monster should be doing these big things. And they should have been doing it 10, 15 years ago. And they did. And we're seeing these companies die in front of us and leveraging other people's technology when they should be doing it themselves. I think it's a great win for Job Sync. A Monster still gets nice traffic. It's a nice logo to put on their website, but long-term, I think this is indicative of, of sort of like the sickness that's that's had that's had Monster for years and not being able to take the initiative and build this stuff themselves. Eightfold, at least in contrast to that is building this stuff themselves has the core competency so I thought this was a nice story to sort of build, you know, tale of two cities.


Joel (21m 30s):

Who's up, who's down? Monster, definitely down in my eyes.


Chad (21m 35s):

Yeah. Well, you see Monster had matching with TroveX way, you know, years ago. And that was the best matching that was on the market back then, period. They bought it. It was theirs. The problem was, once again, Monster wanted to be everything to everybody. They were a Jack of all trades. That's what they started to be. And they became master of the shit pile. Right. So again, I mean, I think, you're making my point for me, whether it's happening now or it happened, then there is so much history to be able to understand that if you can do something and be the expert in it, in this type of a segment and just kill it as opposed to try to do everything, your opportunity indeed, your opportunity to actually win the mountain is much greater.


Chad (22m 24s):

So that's why I think, you know, that was Monsters folly and it, hopefully not, but I, I th I think it's going to be Eightfolds folly as well.


Joel (22m 32s):

Well, I think part of Monster's folly was hubris in thinking that they were the shit.


Chad (22m 36s):

Did you read the press release? Jobs for everybody? I mean, give me a, I mean, there there's, there's the same shit that's happening.