The Snapchat & Anthropic Hype Machines
- Chad Sowash
- 3h
- 37 min read
Funky Snapchat Specs and Dangerous Anthropic AI
First, Chad and Emi dive into the absolute chaos that is the World Cup. Portugal finally woke up and Ghana managed to lull England right to sleep. But hey, at least Emi is still manifesting them bringing the medals home, but don't get her started on the tragedy of corporate-sponsored "hydration breaks."
The Tech Hype Block
Snapchat’s Specs
Anthropic's "Look at me I'm DANGEROUS" side eye
Who’d You Rather? (Startup Edition)
At a metaphorical bar at 2 am. The contestants?
Sloneek: A Czech-Slovak HR tool with a name that sounds like a pickup line.
Hey Milo: A scrappy, seed-funded agent platform targeting frontline staffing.
Orbio: A $21 million Series A giant focused on high-turnover workers.
Will Emi choose or aggressively go after an HR foursome?
PLUS:
Data Centers: The New 1980s Indoor Malls
I Ain't Afraid of No Ghost (Jobs)
Weird Workplace Perks & Strip Club After-Parties
Tune in, watch the World Cup, and Go Portugal! (Or England, if you're Emi).
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Chad (00:36.147)
Welcome to the Chad and Cheese, HR's most dangerous podcast. I'm Chad. I ain't afraid of no ghosts so wash.
Emi (00:43.258)
And I am Emi Sweaty Betty Berodugo.
Chad (00:46.977)
And on this week's show, gross. the respective chats, Snapchat and Anthropic height machines are set to eleven. Startups are leaning hard into AI agents, and will New York really be true to 1984 and Ghostbusters? Let's do this.
Chad (01:15.085)
All right, Emi, so Portugal finally woke up yesterday beating Uzbekistan 5-0. They're their their first in we were getting ready last week as we recorded. I was all stoked to watch their them you know premiere against Congo and and do a good job against Congo. No, one one tie. yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Spain, Spain tied, right? and then Ghana lulled England to sleep last night in a zero zero tie.
Emi (01:33.906)
How? How? Yeah.
Chad (01:44.711)
After they beat Croatia. Croatia's a they're a hell of a team. They beat Croatia 4-2. What the hell is going on around there?
Emi (01:53.675)
No idea, but to honest, this is what England does all the time. You know, they come out all guns blazing and it's almost like they Yeah, I got this, we're gonna win again or get close to winning and they go into the second game and nothing happens. Nothing. And it's like wow. I mean, well done, Ghana, but England should have won that game. It should not have been a draw. Yeah.
Chad (01:57.901)
Mm.
Chad (02:13.117)
Yeah. I and I gotta tell you, I'm not sure that Ghana's ever played that well. And they meshed, they were aggressive. they they felt like the stronger team, in many cases. And in and I've said it a million times. I believe England has the best talent on the pitch, no matter what team you put out there, even Paris or even France, right?
Emi (02:23.366)
Yeah.
Emi (02:27.087)
yeah.
Emi (02:37.457)
Yeah.
Chad (02:39.321)
even Portugal, who they two amazing teams, Spain, another amazing team. I think England has a bounty, literally an embarrassment of riches, right? but I other than that, I I I they just can't put it together.
Emi (02:50.245)
Yeah.
Emi (02:55.172)
No, it's just something to seems to go wrong every single time. You know, they actually I s I let me take that back. They it doesn't they do pretty average in in the initial rounds and then they somehow, maybe it's the luck of the draw, get to the finals, you know. So I'm not gonna shit on them the whole way, but this is like a just a continuous
Chad (03:05.303)
Mm-hmm.
Emi (03:18.522)
a continuous thing with England. It's like I just want to see them go in and all guns blazing for once. You know, not not scraping to get to the final stages, you know? But, you know, well done Ghana. You know, Nigeria's not in it this year. And for anyone who doesn't know, my family's from Nigeria. So I suppose Ghana is our, you know, competitive sipping. So maybe I'm like, mm, okay, might be voting for Ghana, you know, instead of England. Who knows?
Chad (03:25.793)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well
Chad (03:43.232)
I I mean see if they get through. We'll see if they get through, right? I they still they're still still more matches to be played. England's gonna be fine. They're still at the top, still at the top of the table in their group. So I don't I don't think it's gonna be an issue to them. But am I right in saying they have not won a World Cup since 1966? 1966? my God. Okay, I think.
Emi (03:46.031)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emi (03:51.174)
Yeah.
Emi (03:56.069)
Yeah.
Emi (04:04.347)
Yeah, they haven't. They haven't. Yeah. Yeah. I know. But as they say, every time we have these competitions, I don't know if you've heard the song, but it goes, it's coming home, it's coming home, it's coming in footnote, football's coming home. They yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, exactly. We get close. We get very close. Yeah.
Chad (04:12.961)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (04:16.451)
yes, yes, yeah.
Chad (04:21.869)
And it does not.
Chad (04:30.253)
So let's carry on the the UK the the the England football team discussion.
Emi (04:33.97)
Yeah, so my shout out. I know I just said, you know, maybe I'll go for Ghana, but I think now I'm gonna try and stay loyal, you know. For now, I'm still I don't know. I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm gonna like kind of manifest this. I yeah, I'm I'm manifesting England to go all the way and bring the, you know, bring the medals home.
Chad (04:40.695)
Yeah. Uh-huh.
Chad (04:50.189)
Gotta try.
Emi (04:57.488)
You know, and England is so much happier when England you know, when we win the football. So come on, England. That's my shout out.
Chad (05:02.7)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean yes. I I d I've gotta say from what I've seen in the media thus far, and I'm gonna talk about my shout out here in a second. We're gonna continue the football shout outs, but this is more American style. But before that, just how much America loves Scots. They love Scots. my God. Yes. And so so the the and and here's and here's another thing.
Emi (05:12.615)
Yeah.
Emi (05:24.422)
Did I? my Stephen McGrath's gonna love that then.
Chad (05:32.475)
so the Scots went to Boston first because they were playing they were playing Gillette Stadium Foxboro, right? And they drank the city dry. They drank the city dry. And they did it by and also putting the pylons on the you know the traffic cones on statues all over the place. they just had a great time. They were great for the the vibe of the city and everything like that.
Emi (05:38.161)
Yeah.
Emi (05:51.813)
Yeah.
Love it.
Chad (06:00.952)
Well then they lost and they had to go down. I think they they went to Miami for their next match and England had to go to Boston. And nobody liked any the Brits or the English. Yeah. So it's like it's it's really hard to stay up with the Scots. but they're they're they're they're just they're proper funny as well.
Emi (06:11.347)
no.
Emi (06:17.166)
Yeah. They're proper drinkers and partiers. Yeah.
Emi (06:24.004)
Yeah, yeah.
Chad (06:25.577)
My shout out is to the American Stadium Experience. And I know, Emi, you haven't had an opportunity to do this yet, but I would I would like to say that it's great that Europe can experience American stadiums. We have 13 out of the top 20 loudest stadiums in the world. Arrowhead in Kansas City is the loudest and holds the Guinness Book World Record on the loudest stadium in the world. There are Jumbotrons.
Emi (06:31.716)
No, I haven't, yeah.
Emi (06:50.439)
Really?
Chad (06:55.201)
Beer, big pretzels, footlongs. And if you want an expensive refill, there's a guy walking up and down the stairs and the stands yelling, beer here, beer here. yes, yes. And they're and they're more than happy to give you a nice cold expensive refreshment. one thing Europeans aren't seeing though, is that we didn't use our largest stadiums. that's right. Eight out of the top
Emi (07:04.274)
Excellent.
Chad (07:21.579)
10 largest stadiums in the world are in the US. They're all college stadiums. They're all college football stadiums. That's right. all of them over 100,000. and but at the end of the day, we have a bounty of riches when it comes to sporting stadiums, and we're glad that Europe gets a chance and the rest of the world gets a chance to actually check it out. Hopefully they got in and they didn't get sent home like that referee.
Emi (07:28.538)
Really?
Emi (07:47.718)
Well, yeah.
Chad (07:49.029)
but shout out to Europe getting a taste of the US experience. And we're we're we're happy you came and hopefully you had a great experience.
Emi (07:57.286)
Well
Chad (08:00.653)
It's not over yet. It's not over yet.
Emi (08:01.553)
No, hopefully one day I'll you know get to experience it. can I just say something though? One thing I'm not gonna shout out to you are these hydration breaks. You know, Chad, I hate them. They're shit! What the hell is that about? I don't understand. Just let the game play.
Chad (08:10.349)
People are bitching about that left and right.
You can you can blame the Premier League because the Premier League actually has hydration breaks when it gets too hot. but the thing is now FIFA is taking advantage of those hydration breaks for guess what? Commercial breaks. That's right. Yes.
Emi (08:31.662)
Yeah. Yeah. Thank God they're not showing those commercial breaks here. But I'm just like, just take this off. This is pointless, you know. And I know obviously they're saying, you know, it's hard where they're playing. But these are professional athletes. You get paid to do this. You got people like in places like the Middle East, for example, who are constantly playing in the heat. Man up. Play. You know? You're like you should have trained for this. You knew it's gonna be in this country. Train for it. I don't care.
Chad (08:55.519)
Well, you know what? It it's so it's so hot that Steven, for some reason, never wears a t-shirt.
Emi (09:15.9)
He nice.
Chad (09:16.745)
that's I am.
Chad (10:00.631)
Biggest biggest.
Chad (10:18.701)
See, how can you not love that? I mean, that that's that's a scot for you. I mean, he's talking about drinking the entire time and
Emi (10:20.868)
Yeah, that is
Chad (10:29.685)
He's also talking about events. travel is always sponsored by our friends over at Shaker Recruitment Marketing. That's Shaker.com. If you don't have a agency of record, what are you waiting for to go to Shaker dot com? Emi, you know what's coming up. It's Recfest. It's Recfest in Knebworth.
Emi (10:42.84)
Yes. Go on Recfest. One of the best. Absolutely cannot wait. Cannot wait. Yeah.
Chad (10:50.219)
I love it. Jul July second, we're gonna be in England at Knebworth Park all damn day. Joel and I are gonna be singing the disrupt stage and you, Emi, you're gonna be over it. In i innovate, the innovate.
Emi (11:00.018)
I'm gonna be innovates. Yes, that is honest. What a great stage name, you know. And I've got some great people talking. I I I cannot wait to host that stage. Yeah.
Chad (11:07.009)
Yeah, yeah.
It's yeah, same here, same here. And but before I forget, don't forget July 2nd, gotta be in Knebworth. But also go to recfest.com and if you have not gotten your tickets for Nashville yet, get your ass, get your get yourself ready with some tickets to Nashville because if you're missing UK Wreckfest, you gotta go to Nashville. And if you have if you're if you're going to the UK Wreckfest and you have not been to Nashville yet, you gotta check it out.
Emi (11:31.292)
For real.
Chad (11:39.681)
While I say that, I'm asking Emi, when are you gonna check it out? When are you coming to the US? Huh? You do?
Emi (11:43.506)
Do know what? I think I need to this year. I honestly. I had FOMO last year, you know. Obviously I did the UK one and then when everybody else was going, I was like, what? Why am I not involved in this? So I think somehow I've got to get myself there. Yeah. Yeah.
Chad (11:57.245)
I think we need to find a way. W we'll talk about that after. In the meantime.
Chad (12:07.009)
All right, kids, we're calling this the hype block. And I'm going to play a couple of videos. Give me a second here. As I've this this stupid media board that Riverside just installed, it just they it's like they roll it out on you and they're like, figure it out, right? So anyway, I'm figuring it out. we're gonna show a couple of videos and want to have a discussion to say is this hype? Is this real? Is this true? Is it or is this just hype and are they blowing smoke up your ass? So
Here's the first one. We're gonna go with Evan Spiegel over at Snapchat.
Chad (12:54.967)
Look at those glasses.
Emi (12:57.488)
They are weird, said
Chad (13:20.233)
Okay, so Specs. Talk to me. Do you think the hype is real or is this just a bunch of smoke? What what what about specs?
Emi (13:20.287)
okay.
Emi (13:30.682)
I look, this is the first time kind of seeing it properly and I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced, you know. Obviously Snapchat, you know, what what was Snapchat back in the day? I get they're trying to involve, but really they were just like a social media platform for kids, you know. Let's have funny, I don't know.
pictures on the top of your head or images at the top of your head. And now they're doing glasses. And it's like interesting moves. Obviously they're trying to compete with the yeah the likes of Apple and Meta with their type of glasses. But this whole standalone computer whilst you're walking around type thing, I'm not sure that's really gonna take off. I don't think people know Snapchat for that. And I don't think people are ready in this day and age to be wearing a portable computer in their head. And
Chad (13:59.433)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chad (14:13.804)
Mm.
Emi (14:18.822)
How much are they?
Chad (14:20.543)
I'd like twenty three hundred bucks or something like that.
Emi (14:23.526)
$2300. no, no one's gonna pay for those. Yeah, I'll get it out. Yeah, I'll put that, you know, I can have an iPad. I can all I could do all that kind of stuff on my phone. I could use my laptop. Why would I want to have a computer while I'm walking around day to day? maybe I'm a dinosaur, but I think it's I think it's crap.
Chad (14:45.793)
Yeah, so for those not watching the video, there were big, chunky ass glasses, and nobody I mean nobody will wear those boat anchors on their face. I mean, did you see how big not just the frames were around the eyes, but the ear pieces. The earpieces were huge, and Evan Spiegel, who is a good looking dude, those glasses rendered him unfuckable. They
Emi (14:58.738)
Mm-hmm.
Emi (15:05.167)
Yes, yes.
Chad (15:15.329)
He put them on. It was like, these that's a good looking dude, nope. He's nope, he's nope, he's unfuckable. He's unfuckable. So these feel like Facebook's venture into the metaverse where they wasted over 80 billion. the big difference is that Facebook is printing money and they could take a hit like that. Snapchat isn't printing money. they're not even in the black for God's sakes. They're in the red. They've invested three billion.
Emi (15:17.611)
Yeah.
Emi (15:37.411)
No.
Chad (15:44.759)
For a boat anchor that sits on your face. Whew.
Emi (15:44.956)
Three three billion. What an absolute waste of money. That explains the price tag, but what an absolute waste of money. You know, yeah. No.
Chad (15:53.518)
Crazy. Crazy. Okay, we're gonna go ahead and we're gonna I think we're we're we're both on the same page of this one. let's go ahead and let's hear what Dario has to say over at Anthrop.
Emi (15:59.804)
Yeah.
Emi (16:05.68)
Okay.
Chad (16:27.615)
Okay, okay, so super weapon. You should have to get a permit. What do you think? Was this is this is he blowing smoke up your ass or is the hype real?
Emi (16:37.239)
Do you know what do you know one of the things I love about this video is how he's always trying to stay humble and my my god, other people said this is you know, a super weapon. You need a gun license to use it. my god, I'm not saying it. Other people are saying how amazing this is. It's like, shut the fuck up. It's like the my god. Yeah.
Chad (16:39.863)
What? yeah.
Chad (16:50.113)
Yeah, yeah. That's a very Trump thing to do. It's a very Trump thing to do, yes. other people sa Sir, sir, you should have a you should have a you know a a a gun license for you shut up.
Emi (17:03.516)
my God. Yeah. I mean, this is absolutely like, this is a PR, good like as it's not a good PR tactic, but it is a PR tactic. You know, the way I look at it is just a way to kind of drive up their valuation, you know, right, you know, be right before they go public with this model. And what it also does is try to create this kind of like kind of.
Chad (17:10.391)
Yeah. Yeah.
Chad (17:16.235)
Mm. Yeah, yeah.
Emi (17:24.938)
It's almost like art artificial scarcity, you know? So it's like, this product is so powerful that only a few people can have actually access to it. And you know what what are they trying to do? They're just trying to attract investors. So do I believe this is a good thing? You know, or do I think this is PR hype? I think it's PR hype, yeah.
Chad (17:27.61)
yeah. Yeah.
Chad (17:33.687)
Yes.
Chad (17:44.096)
Okay. Okay. I'm gonna go with I think it's real-ish. do I think that there are LLMs that can find software vulnerabilities that humans have missed for decades? You bet your ass I do. You bet your ass I do. Would a vulnerability into the banking or maybe even the energy grid possibly topple a nation? You bet your you bet your ass it would, right? Do I believe we're there now? No. But here's the hard truth that.
Emi (17:56.742)
Yes, yeah.
Emi (18:06.15)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (18:12.779)
Dario Amondi actually said himself. AGI, he believes, is imminent. But will companies like Anthropic and OpenAI be around when it happens? Because the burn rate of these companies is so high and their monetization models aren't even close to making a dent in their burn. So if they don't continue to raise more and more and more capital and/or finally find a way to monetize, they're gonna flame out. So, yes, I believe.
Emi (18:31.729)
Yeah.
Chad (18:41.739)
Right now, this is hype to drive more funding and revenues. But it's something real that we're all going to have to prepare ourselves for because the first thing these algos will be used for is weaponization in the in in the energy grids, in banking. And unfortunately, un unlike it was pitched, it's not going to be used to cure cancer. So hey, I so
Emi (18:58.043)
Yeah.
Emi (19:07.322)
No, it's not gonna be used for good at all. Yeah.
Chad (19:10.005)
So sorry to be the bearer of bad news, kids. But yeah, that that's that's just no fun. That's no fun. but yeah, I mean from your standpoint, do you think the anthropics, especially we saw, and we'll talk a little bit more about this, but we saw the open AIs of the world and their burn rates. it it to me, it just doesn't seem sustainable.
Emi (19:16.679)
Yeah.
Emi (19:39.068)
think I'd have to actually agree. Yeah. I I I don't think it is at at all either. with
Chad (19:44.429)
I mean, if you're a Facebook and you're printing money, you're a Google and you're printing money, you know, it's almost like they're waiting these startups out. They're waiting them out, they're waiting them to flame out, so that the
Emi (19:47.643)
Yeah.
Emi (19:54.204)
Yeah.
And then somebody else is gonna come along. Yeah. And one hunter is
Chad (20:00.139)
Possibly, or they just go ahead and scoop them up.
Emi (20:03.173)
Yeah. People are getting companies are getting acquired. So it'll be one or the other. Somebody else will do it better or, you know, they'll be acquired.
Chad (20:15.607)
Good yeah. Okay, okay. Moving on, moving on. We we haven't done this in a while. It's who'd you rather? let me go ahead and let me set the mood for you, Emi. So we're in a bar at 2 a.m. And in this case, you have three options, three sexy startups who who want to go home with you, right? So first now you have to choose which one.
Emi (20:25.746)
Woo.
Emi (20:31.698)
Okay.
Chad (20:45.505)
First is Sloneek. What a name. Sloneek. who, Sloneek, Sloneek, who just received 3.6 million euros in Series A, so they have a bank account. founded in 2019, Czech Slovak HR startup, Sloneek, has evolved from an HR tool, a regional HR tool, into an AI-powered platform serving companies across Europe.
Emi (20:50.29)
I love how you say that. It kinda Slonique, hey, buy me, come home with me.
Chad (21:12.417)
Sloneek is used by more than 500 enterprise customers across 25 countries, collectively managing HR processes for approximately 50,000 employees. Those numbers don't drive really well, do they? 500 and okay. They don't jive well. Anyway, customers include Grant Thornton, Mann, WTT PP Media, and Twistio. There we go. That is Sloneek. next we have, let me let me do it again.
yeah.
yeah. We have Hey Milo, 6 million USD in seed. They're focused on frontline workers through staffing companies. they have customers like Ron Stad, Wilson HCG, and Neo Financial. Hello Milo provides an AI driven platform that enables employers, staffing companies, and recruitment process outsourcing firms. That's RPO for you kids to automate candidate sourcing.
Emi (21:47.378)
I'm loving this.
Chad (22:14.643)
Screening across voice, video, phone, SMS, and resume analysis. That is hey, Milo, and last but not least.
We have Orbio. Ooh, look at that. Thank you. Got a little treat. Alex, Alex sent me a little treat. Orbio, $21 million USD Series A. Holy shit, Orbio. frontline workers, focused on frontline workers, have clients, yum brands who own Pizza Huts, Taco Bells, and KFCs. Orbio helps interview candidates, assess fit.
Monitor employee output and conduct daily check-ins throughout an employee's work life cycle. Wow, that's a lot. That is Orbio. Who I say who? Who you going home with, Emi? Who you picking? Who might it be?
Emi (23:08.594)
Okay.
Emi (23:18.258)
Okay, so question. Can I take all three home with me?
Chad (23:19.746)
Yes.
Yeah, well it is not bad. So who would be your first to take home and then the other two could follow along?
Emi (23:29.722)
Nothing wrong with a good old foursome. It went twenty six, surely. I mean yeah.
Emi (23:40.083)
Ooh, okay. Can I go in reverse order? Yeah, because this is actually quite tough. Because to be honest, I think that I I think they all sound good. You know, I would take any one of these three home, I think, you know. But since you're making me choose, you know, okay. I'm gonna go third place. Third place, I'm gonna go with Hey Milo. Yeah. And you wanna know why? Yeah.
Chad (23:42.025)
Mm. Sure, please. Okay.
Chad (24:02.094)
Okay. Okay.
Of course. Everybody does. Everybody does.
Emi (24:08.1)
Yeah, okay. Okay. So the thing about Hey Milo, I think their product is good. I think what they're selling is actually good. And I think it actually fits a a market need. Okay. my worry is, is that will what they're doing be absorbed by, you know, kind of legacy applicant tracking systems who would just, you know, either be absorbed by them or will they will they try to do what Hey Milo is actually doing, you know, and compete because they have deeper pockets and eventually they'll be squeezed out of the market.
Chad (24:13.463)
Mm-hmm.
Emi (24:37.188)
So because of that, they're gonna go in third place. And then in second place, I'm gonna go with Slonique. No, I okay, so it was it was tough, I think, between these two. I Sloneek again has a good product. the core portfolio is strong, and I do think they have long-term viability.
Chad (24:44.525)
Mm-hmm.
Emi (25:07.108)
So but the reason why I'm going with I'm trying to how do I say Orbio? Does that sound as sexier? Obio. I think why they pit the post is because the people that they're kind of I suppose helping is this kind of like frontline workers, you know. There's 2.7 billion people in that market, you know, and I just think there's more return on investment by going down that particular field. So that is the reason why I'm gonna go with Orbio.
Chad (25:13.707)
Orbio. yeah. Orbio.
Chad (25:31.005)
Okay.
Emi (25:37.168)
Since you make me Yeah, but you know, if I if we ever do this again, please allow me to have a foursome because I'm okay with that. Okay. Yeah.
Chad (25:40.878)
You could hey you can do whatever you want. I was just asking for a ranking. Or Orbio does sound kind of like a vibrator company though, does it not? yeah, it does. It does. I that I thought so. Orbio for her. Yeah, they came out with the Raging Rabbit and you know all those things. okay, so Orbio is the winner. There we go, kids.
Emi (25:49.659)
Yeah. does it? Orbio for her pleasure For his and hers pleasure. Yeah, I think so, yeah.
Chad (26:10.443)
I do have a little disclosure to happen here. A little disclosure. actually this news came out and I'm actually in talks right now with Hey Milo to be an advisor. So, let me just I think personally the agent space incredibly smart. What these guys do are incredibly smart. I'll do a just a quick rundown of what I like and don't like. Sloneek.
Emi (26:12.738)
Okay.
Chad (26:37.565)
Love it. They've been around since 2019, which means they have their fingers already in the industry. Now they have been really focused regionally, right? and yet they I I think they're landing and expanding and they're going to the US and those types of things. I think they need more focus. but I think it's great, especially starting out in Europe. Europe has a hot startup scene, hot startup scene. So I I really love those guys.
Emi (26:51.75)
Mm-hmm.
Emi (27:02.864)
When you say focus, are you talking about geographical focus or product focus? okay.
Chad (27:05.353)
I'm talking about all over the place, geographical focus. If you take a look at what they're doing, not to mention take a look at their integrations. Their integrations are Google Calendar, Google Workspace, Jira, Lookup Studio. No mention of integrations to workday, SAP, ISIMS. I mean, anything that you would want from this space, you would hope that they would have integrations there, but but they don't. So Philip Lukak or Lu Lucich, I can't say your name right, sir.
Emi (27:28.89)
Okay.
Chad (27:33.901)
The CEO, focus on integrations, focus on the your TAM there, buddy. Orbio, 21 million series A. That is a lot of money. That is a lot of money. I think that's awesome. Young Brands, they they mentioned two companies that have as client customers, two you know, big companies. One was Young Brands, that's awesome. Frontline workers.
Emi (27:41.521)
Mm-hmm.
Emi (27:47.227)
Yeah.
Chad (28:02.466)
That's exactly where you should be starting. so make yeah, yeah. I healthcare, retail, logistics. it's amazing. It's amazing. So I think these guys are great. the problem is that I see comp companies, startups, get a lot of money who've never been in this space before. They burn quickly because they don't know where to go.
Emi (28:04.721)
Yeah, two point seven billion deathless workers out that there. Yeah. That's eighty yeah, that's eighty percent of the work the global workforce. Yeah.
Emi (28:29.105)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (28:29.173)
Right. And that's my that would be my only caution. I'm not gonna say they're doing that or going to do that. That would be my only caution. Hey Milo, in talking to Sebastian over there, the CEO, these guys are gritty. they don't want to take a lot of money, because which I love because you gotta be scrappy at first, right? And
I think one of the biggest problems that we're having in the AI model space right now is they're getting too much money, right? If you take a look at a lot of the China LLMs, they're not getting as much money and they're being more scrappy and they're using worse chips and they're doing more with those things. I mean, they're forced to actually do more with less. And when you do that, you innovate. And I fear that getting a lot of money really hurts.
a young startup and these guys they they only got six mil in and seed which is good which is very good the thing that i love the most about these guys staffing Randstad, Wilson HCG staffing and here's why talent acquisition
Emi (29:35.858)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (29:44.94)
For TA practitioners, that's their job. For Ranstad, Wilson HCG for RPOs, that's their business. They have to do this right. They have to get better. They have to be more efficient. And they need tech to do that. So I think starting with staffing first makes a hell of a lot of sense. again, I'm biased because I'm talking to these guys, prospectively an advisor sometime soon, but
Hey Milo
Emi (30:15.132)
I love it.
Chad (30:23.135)
All right, kids, we will be right back.
Chad (30:35.851)
All right, straight out of this one. We're gonna talk a little bit about Google, Oracle, blue collar workers, data centers. This straight from the BBC. Oracle shed about 21,000 roles globally in the last year as US Technology Giant reshapes its business around AI, the firm's latest annual report shows. The software and cloud computing firm says it had around 141,000 full-time employees.
Around May this year. And now they're down to about 162,000 workers. the deployment as you were down for they're down from 162. So they had 141 down to a hundred I mean, down from a hundred and sixty-two. Jesus. the deployment of AI technologies across our operations have resulted and may continue to result in reductions to our workforce. The
Emi (31:19.856)
Yeah, too, yeah.
Chad (31:34.167)
The report says the cuts, which amount to about 13% of Oracle's workforce, are part of a wider trend among tech firms as they spend hundreds of billions of dollars on building AI infrastructure like data centers. Wait a minute. Did somebody say data centers? You certainly, yeah, that and that no shit. So
Last week we talked about Meta's announcement of launching America's Workforce Academy, powered by an initial $115 million first-year investment to develop skilled workers to build data centers. Now, Google wants in on some of those skilled workers to build their data centers. That's right. Google has unveiled plans to invest 50 million. This is Chump James for these guys, kids, 50 million in skills, trades, training the that covers as many as
300,000 jobs across more than 20 states. Wow. the plans mention the likes of electricians, plumbers, pipe fitters, welders, service techs, and sheet metal workers. Emi, I'm sure you've heard America needs skill workers. I'm sure the UK needs skill workers too. But do we need that many fucking data centers? Your thoughts.
Emi (32:44.166)
Yeah, everyone. Yeah. Yeah.
Emi (32:51.45)
Hmm, what are my thoughts? I don't know. I don't know how many data centers we need, but I do know that the way they're going is both companies, I don't actually necessarily agree with their approach. So, you know, if we look at, you know, you started off with Oracle, you know, 21,000 jobs cut as they embrace in AI. That's 30% of their, I suppose, the entire global headcount gone. The optics around it are terrible.
You know, they are paying billions into like kind of investing in AI, which I totally understand. But what they're doing, they're ruining the company culture, they are ruining company morale. People the people they need to actually, because they will need humans to actually, you know, keep developing AR products, they are not going to want to stay there. They're not going to and if they do stay, they're not going to want to, you know, necessarily produce their best work. And the ones that
Chad (33:19.351)
Mm. Well I tell you the Tony Gala keep and down there, but I've read my call. Yeah.
Emi (33:45.935)
end up leaving and hopefully get a job in a I suppose a more morally you know I don't know morally stable place if you like you know they're gonna go with all the institution institutional knowledge to another organization so do I think it's the right thing for them to do no but this is this is the way that a lot of tech companies are going you know Oracle's not the only one making these mass redundancies
Chad (34:12.693)
Mm.
Emi (34:12.986)
The difference here with Oracle is that do they have the deep pockets that some of the big organizations have? No. So they're almost putting themselves in debt and hoping that these data centers that they're building is going to pay off in the future. So that's my my take on the kind of Oracle situation. And when it comes to Google, you know, spending, you know, in like spending X amount on, you know, in
Chad (34:28.173)
So it does, or it will say.
Emi (34:39.372)
in you know developing the next set of people to build these data centers, I actually think is a bit bullshit. It's like on the surface it sounds good to some extent, you know, because they're thinking, right, you know, I need to get ahead of this. We are investing these data centers. We are going to have to grow in this particular area, but do they need as many as they say they need?
Chad (34:44.164)
Yeah.
Chad (34:47.981)
Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, because I I tell you why Yeah, it has I mean it has the dash at it's it's the back.
Emi (35:00.474)
Not necessarily and the money that they want to put into investing these people is not even enough. You know, they're putting fifty million into growing the next generation of people going to build these data centers. But when you work it out, it's a hundred and sixty six dollars per worker. That is like so what are you gonna you know? And they make more th that is this ridiculous, you know, that's not what is it gonna cover? You know? A a a couple of meals? Yeah. So no, I I
Chad (35:04.193)
Yeah, you have to do that as an outcoming because it's going home like two.
I know.
Chad (35:14.541)
Yeah.
Chad (35:24.353)
Yeah, good question.
Emi (35:28.178)
You know, I think both of these situations are a bit crap, to be honest.
Chad (35:32.599)
So yeah, I think it's great that Google and Facebook are training skilled tradespeople after they're finished building these data centers. That means it won't take a week to get a clock a a plumber to call you back. but I believe there's a bigger issue that's coming up, more on the macro side of the house. And I think it's time for
Chad (35:56.534)
That's right. You're gonna love this one. let's throw it back to the 1980s. The US was absolutely crazy over indoor malls. It was glorious. You could hit the arcade, watch a cheap movie, buy some oversized jeans, and aggressively loiter in a food court, right? Fast forward to today, and 70% of Americans live within driving distance of a rotting dead mall that's only useful as a set for stranger things.
Out of 2,500 malls, up to 1,800 are dead or demolished. We got excited, we overbuilt, and the market shifted, right? But because we're humans and never learn, we are doing the exact same thing right now, just at a terrifyingly larger cost scale. Enter data centers. So right now, there are nearly 1,500 new data centers planned and under construction in the US. And look,
I know I'm oversimplifying here, but this is the mall thing all over again, just with a bigger price tag. They're overbuilding. The tech will shift. What happens then? The shrinking footprint, these places need hardware upgrades every three to five years. As microchips grow smaller, faster, smarter, and compute gets cheaper. Do we really need all that damn space? Or are we just building future paintball arenas? plus
The local drain on the economies. Data centers are absolutely guzzling electricity, water, leaving local communities to deal with higher bills and murky water. And here's the kicker, folks. Leaked 2025 financial documents showed OpenAI brought in a cool $13 billion in revenue. That sounds good, but they had $34 billion in expenses, which is a $21 billion.
Chad (37:52.546)
billion dollar operating loss. Now math is hard, but that ain't great. Remember, when we were talking about Dario Amade earlier in the show, he thinks AGI is right around the corner. But at this rate, will these companies even be alive to see it? If OpenAI flames out, who inherits those giant power-sucking monoliths? One of the one of the answers is Oracle, by the way.
We're a fad, just like landlines, fax machines, Blockbuster, and Napster, data centers aren't disappearing tomorrow, but the numbers will dwindle and we're going to be left with a bunch of high tech hulking husks. But there's a high note, there's a there's a light at the end of the tunnel. With all the kids realizing tech might not be, you know, there to save them, and they go flooded into the skilled trades instead.
At least we're gonna have plumbers, electricians, people to actually build shit now. And that was one of the things that we've had problems with over the past few decades. So we're gonna get some good stuff out of this, but you gotta ask yourself, where are these data centers really gonna go? And we do we need all these things? And back to your answer your question, I think Oracle is being smart. They're gonna watch OpenAI flame out and they've partnered with them on a lot of these data centers and they'll just take them over.
Emi (39:18.438)
Yeah they have. Yeah.
Chad (39:22.829)
Crazy. Crazy, crazy. All right. Hey, who doesn't love a good mall? I mean, when you when you grow up, when you grew up, and again, different in in the US, we were very mall centric, right? It was it was where we we hung with our friends, we went to movies. I mean, just it was it was kind of like the cool kids pla place to go. And now they're dead because of retail shifts, because of online,
Emi (39:25.778)
It was a beautiful history lesson though. I learned something today.
Emi (39:38.801)
Yeah.
Chad (39:52.065)
You know, buying and those types of things. Did you see the same thing when you were growing up?
Emi (39:55.987)
Do you know what I'll say? It depends on the region. So if I'm looking at the UK, and I, you know, before people listeners may know, I've mentioned it before, I lived in the UK, grew up here, and then left the UK, you know, 20, no, 2008. So if I wanted to go shopping back then, I would go to my local shopping center. There were two opposite each other, all the shops were there.
Chad (39:59.874)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (40:19.82)
Yeah.
Emi (40:19.93)
I've come back and in the five years I've been back, all the kind of retail units are empty. It is a dead zone. Everything I need, I can get off Amazon. I can get off like a whatever online shop. So I don't need to leave my house. So for someone who's quite lazy, even better, you know? So yeah, that has happened. Things have changed in the UK. However, like I said, I also lived in Dubai.
In Dubai, shopping malls are all over the place. It's not slowing down. And it's kind of that way for a lot of the GCC region. And maybe it's because of their model of shopping center, maybe similar to the US, it is not just a place to shop. It's a place to entertain. It's a place to where you can go ice skating if you like, you know, in the middle of the desert, go skiing in the middle of the desert, go to the cinema, you know, in the middle of a shopping mall.
Chad (40:51.469)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (40:58.369)
So yeah.
Chad (41:09.623)
See it.
Emi (41:11.62)
So it's much more than a shopping place and it's obviously it's hot outside. So there's AC, so that's where it's a good place to congregate. Yeah. But so that's why I say it may depend on the r on where we are in a particular world. So I get your idea about the shopping mall idea, but that that could be the case with data centers. I mean that we don't do I believe necessarily that we need all the data centers right now.
Chad (41:12.855)
Very good.
Emi (41:36.794)
I'm not a hundred percent sure. do I believe they're taking an aggressive approach rather than a cautious approach because they don't know what we you know, we're entering uncharted territory. Possibly, it does look that way. you know, I think we're in like just times where we can't predict, so people have to just take a bit of a gamble and hope for the best.
Chad (41:54.062)
cross your fingers, kids. All right. This one is straight from Fisher Phillips website. New York's Ghost Job Bill could reshape job posting practices. What employers should know? Let's listen up, employers. This for you. New York lawmakers just passed a bill last week that would require certain employers and job posting platforms.
And job posting platforms to disclose whether a job ad is tied to a current opening and if so, when the employer expects to fill it or whether the posting is being used to build a future candidate pipeline. The bill targets so-called ghost jobs or postings that appear to advertise open roles, but may instead be used to collect resumes for future hiring needs. The bill would apply.
To employers with a hundred or more employees and certain third-party job posting platforms. If Governor Hocul signs the bill that passed the legislature on June 2nd, in its current form, it will take effective immediately, giving covered employers little time to adjust their posting practices. Emi, I gotta say, it's fitting New York.
is leading the I Ain't Afraid of No Ghost regulation since Ghostbusters was actually filmed in New York City. What what's what's your take?
Emi (43:23.664)
To be honest, I like this idea and I'm not surprised by this. And I'll tell you why. A couple of months ago, actually beginning of the year, in fact, I think that's when Ontario, Canada went live with a similar thing. They had a whole bunch of black kind of employment reforms and anti-ghosting and being having more transparency with joke job postings, that that went live in January of this year.
And because of that, I actually predicted that, yeah, of course, other companies, other sorry, other countries are going to be watching and probably following suit. So, like I said, I'm not surprised. Do I think it's a good idea? Yes. And I think it's great because they're doing more to protect candidates. It is tough out there for candidates. And applying for jobs which don't exist.
Chad (44:09.228)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (44:13.929)
Were you watching the matches of
Emi (44:14.254)
And don't exist because it's a pipeline job, but you haven't made it clear that it's a pipeline job, or you're trying to maybe you're trying to look like your company is actually growing to the external market, you know. Great for the organization because they get a ready pipeline of like candidates ready for when they go to hire and the time to fill will be shorter. But it's a shitty experience for candidates. And
Chad (44:24.779)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emi (44:38.968)
Why why should organizations be doing things to make candidates feel even worse in a crappy market? So do I like it? Absolutely. But there are, I still think there are gaps. I know we're still sitting with this governor too for a signature. I think there are gaps. I think the immediate turnaround, for example, you know, if this does go live.
That doesn't give enough time for companies to prepare. I don't think there's enough, from what I can see, enough guidance on how to really operationalize this because it's not just a case of saying, hey, you know, you you have to say, use this wording on your job adverts to show that this is actually a live, real job. Technology comes into that. Some people have to configure their technology, you have to train people. How and what happens if, let's say, for example, you post a job.
And hiring ty hiring timelines change, you know, because they're saying that you need to say how long the luck job needs to be live for.
Chad (45:35.115)
Mm-hmm.
Emi (45:40.359)
But people know hiring is not straightforward. Like, you know, you might say that this job is live because we expect to fill it within X number of days. But if the timeline changes because the requirements have changed, what do people do? Does it does the clock start again? And how do you use technology to show that it starts again? Because you have to have some kind of audit trial? Or do you just deactivate the job and post it back live again? So I think there's not enough guidance.
Chad (45:47.947)
Mm-hmm.
Emi (46:07.534)
in from what I'm seeing. And it's kind of similar to what I encountered when the Antuario one went live at the beginning of the year. So it's great, but you haven't really truly thought this through properly. And it makes me feel like it not enough HR or TA practitioners were actually involved in drafting this bill. So that's where I'm at.
Chad (46:12.237)
Some of every yeah.
Chad (46:27.078)
I I didn't ex I didn't expect to do this, but I'm going to
So in 2007, as you talk about, you know, things happen quick happening quickly, in two thousand seven, George Bush shut down the America's Job Bank. And the America's Job Bank was actually created to take jobs and distribute them to all fifty job banks, state job banks, right? Not to mention also to Washington DC and Puerto Rico and and and so so on and so forth.
Emi (46:37.777)
Yeah.
Chad (47:02.955)
That happened overnight. Pretty much happened overnight. There wasn't much lead time. What happened? Scared the shit out of every HR person that was out there. But guess what happened? They came together and they got it fixed, right? I think making excuses for not having enough guidelines is bullshit. You can we're smart people. This is our this is our industry. We know how to work this stuff. We can figure this out. We can work directly with our industry.
vendors to be able to figure out how to actually make these things work easily. The hard part from our standpoint, I think we can make this work as practitioners, HR practitioners. Now, the more malicious side of this is on the job board side, where we're seeing a small amount of job boards scraping jobs off of hiring sites, reposting them on their own job board, and then leading job seekers into scams, harvesting
Emi (47:55.026)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (47:59.762)
all their data and never pushing any candidate resumes or profile information back to the actual company they're supposedly representing in the first place. Then the scams can scale through partners where they use vendors like Indeed, Appcast, Google for Jobs, and and others that that are doing amazing jobs from a distribution standpoint. But sometimes these bad actors slip in. And we've seen that over the past few months, over the past few weeks.
Will this legislation be a solution? I think every I think every
Emi (48:33.976)
Is deterrent, yeah.
Chad (48:39.113)
Every company needs kind of like a shock every now and again, to be able to refocus on what they should be doing. And from this standpoint, this is mainly about transparency. It's mainly about transparency. It's the three different things current vacancy to be filled within 90 days. That's on the job, or current vacancy to be filled more than 90 days, or no current vacancy, aka it's an evergreen job, right?
Emi (49:07.111)
Mm.
Chad (49:08.811)
We can make this work as employers. I think the hard part and where it becomes a tad onerous is if an employee employer is unaware or reasonably should be aware, which is a part of the the whole, you know, bill, that a third-party job posting entity independently posted that position. The employer would have to notify that entity and then
They would actually have to get it pulled down. So I think the onerous part is hoping that you can find all of the copies of your jobs out there and then start to manage these bad actors. I'm working with a large group of companies right now. And before this actually came out, this was part of the cleanup crew, you could call it, that they're trying to put in place because they saw as a problem. So it's not easy, but.
There are violations in fees. The fees aren't huge. I mean, you're talking about twenty five hundred dollars per violation, but if you have hundreds of jobs and you're not auditing, plus if you don't rectify it in 30 days, it goes to five thousand. And every other thirty days that you don't rectify, it doubles and doubles and doubles and doubles. So if you're not managing this, this could be this could be a mess for an organization.
Emi (50:17.02)
Then it can add up.
Emi (50:37.522)
Absolutely, and this is why I go back to my point about I know you're saying obviously we're smart people, but some people don't know what they don't know. So like you said, if somebody's advertising your job again and you just have no idea what's out there, they need guidance to go, right, these are the potential things that could happen. These are the routes you can actually go down.
It's not not just enough to go, this is the law, this is taking effect now. I think it's important to also help people to operationalize this, spot the, you know, give them a bit of direction on how to actually do this properly and how to make sure they avoid those fines. Because otherwise people could inadvertently, you know, break the law and get fined for something that they didn't actually realize they were violating. So I think one, yeah, I think one is similar.
Chad (51:22.593)
Yeah. That's that's why you need experts in the room. That's why if you're an enterprise company, if you're trying to do this yourself, great if you think you have the expertise, but you should have experts in the room.
Emi (51:26.704)
Yeah.
Chad (51:36.61)
Governments do this as a scare tactic. I'm telling you right now, they don't have the resources from an enforcement standpoint to actually go out there and start nailing companies on day one. They don't. so they're doing this as a scare tactic. I've seen it before. That's exactly what's happening. But as soon as they get funding, they will start ramping up enforcement. so I mean, at the end of the day, I
Emi (51:38.609)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (52:01.922)
I really think companies should take these things serious. This is about transparency. Is it an evergreen job? Is it not an evergreen job? Right. People are calling them ghost jobs. They're they're used for different, for different things, and they have been even before the internet came along. but yeah, that's a scare tactic. And it's unfortunate that there's so much, I guess you could say, misinformation that's
Emi (52:13.723)
Yeah.
Chad (52:28.469)
out there you've got all these quote unquote influencers that are saying, Well, those are just ghost jobs and that's this. It's like there are different mechanisms for different reasons, for different roles.
Emi (52:36.518)
Yeah. It's not all done for malicious reasons. No, not at all. And I think just people don't understand that. or people outside of the industry don't understand that. But I do think that whilst we're waiting, that I don't let me take a step back. I think that organizations actually l hear this and go, right, okay, what can I do now? Don't just wait.
Chad (52:40.277)
No. Mm-mm.
Emi (52:58.276)
particularly if you're global organization, you know, recruiting globally, don't wait for that legislation to actually come in. Start looking in it now because really, in all honesty, I just think more and more countries, more and more states around the world are going to start doing this. So why just why not just get ahead of it right now?
Chad (52:58.434)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (53:15.507)
Amen. And if you don't
Chad (53:24.033)
gonna suck to be you. We'll be right back.
Emi (53:25.191)
yeah.
Chad (53:27.957)
All right, we're gonna end the show with a funny one. this one from Business Insider last year, the CEO of AI Startup Factory took an unusual talent management tactic, buying everyone pricey sleep tech. You heard me right, sleep tech. CEO Martin Grinberg gave every employee a three thousand dollar mattress cover, not a mattress, mattress cover.
When the startup had 30 employees, Grinberg compared his employees to professional athletes like NBA players. His engineers need rest. I want to make sure everyone is squeezing out every ounce of brain power they had, he said. To do that, you need to get good sleep. And he's right, you do need good sleep. the pricing mattress covers, he said, were the right style of benefit. Now with
Emi (54:13.18)
Yeah, yeah.
Chad (54:20.383)
120 employees. He hasn't yet gifted the product to factory's new employees. Shame on you, Maton. he said, but he's considering making it standard issue. Emi, what is the weirdest perk you got from an employer?
Emi (54:37.628)
Well, I the thing is I'm a little bit embarrassed to say this because obviously we are supposed to be a professional, you know. I'll tell you what happened, right? And I like I even I was shocked and I I'm pretty unshockable. So when I was like leaving the UK.
Chad (54:40.107)
Ha ha ha
Wasn't an it wasn't an orbio, was it?
Emi (54:58.818)
I was actually working for a recruitment agency at the time and I was like, right, okay, to dubby in two weeks' time. And you know, my work colleagues gave me a massive box, and I was like, my god, what is it? You know, thinking it's something like really special. I unwrapped it and it was a blow-up sex doll called Mario Yeah, yeah. And his name was Mario with a mouth like
Chad (55:16.269)
I wasn't I wasn't far. I wasn't far.
Chad (55:24.205)
my God, yeah, yeah.
Emi (55:25.944)
like this big open mouth you can imagine what's supposed to happen i was like my god you know obviously i still work in the recruitment world and that's like a excuse me it's like you know you're not supposed to give me presents like this when we work in our area it was hilarious i had it for about six years it sat on my yeah mario the blow up sex doll sat on my exercise bike
I used to get like, you know, my, you know, people coming round to like kinda do stuff in my house and they go, What is that? I was like, This is exactly what do you think it is?
Chad (55:56.795)
Ha ha
Emi (56:00.103)
So yeah, that is the weirdest thing I've ever received.
Chad (56:05.354)
Okay, it's this is gonna make mine even more weird. So the weird it wasn't a blow-up doll. I didn't I did not get a blow up doll. So the weirdest perk was going on a president's club performance trip when I was at monster.com. Monster was the cool kid on the internet block at the time, and the trip was h hosted by
Emi (56:11.876)
Okay.
Chad (56:26.687)
which is now Radency. CEO Andy McKelvey, who flew all the way to flew us all the way to Florida to play golf at one of his golf courses. that was that was that was cool. but where it got weird is that after we got done golfing, we went back to the hotel room, we got showered, ready for dinner, had dinner, it was great. And then Andy took us all to the after party and
At a strip club. it's it's it's already weird going to a strip club with the CEO of the company that owns your company, but it's even more weird when you're having drinks at the strip club with your very religious female boss.
Emi (56:58.254)
I knew you were gonna say that.
Emi (57:06.289)
my god.
Emi (57:13.969)
no no
my god, what did she say?
Chad (57:23.519)
we didn't say anything. It we just had an odd wor awkward glance and didn't look at each other in the eyes the entire time. I went to the other side of the room and I got I got away. Yes. Exactly. Exactly.
Emi (57:25.444)
Yeah.
Emi (57:36.732)
She's probably thinking that praying to Jesus is like, Bless me with holy water. It's like cleanse me with holy water, in fact.
Chad (57:43.967)
And that being said, I think that's better than any dad joke. Joel Free June is coming to an end. If you're watching the World Cup, hope your team does well. If you're not watching the World Cup, watch the World Cup. All these countries are coming together. It's great to watch this happen. And go Portugal. Ha ha ha.
Emi (57:48.42)
Yeah.
Emi (58:00.293)
Yes, said
Emi (58:09.912)
Portugal? Go England. Yeah, yeah, yeah. out. See ya, bye bye.
Chad (58:14.717)
We out.
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