Job Slop by Google & OpenAI
- Chad Sowash
- 4 minutes ago
- 45 min read
Joel-Free June & It's OpenAI & Google Job Slop Season
Welcome to the Chad and Cheese, HR’s most dangerous podcast! This week, Chad is holding down paradise alone because it is officially Joel-Free June. While our favorite co-host takes a very European, month-long vacation, Chad is joined by the brilliant Emi Beredugo and JT O'Donnell to tear into the absolute circus that is the current HR and recruitment tech landscape.
From C-suite shakeups to corporate ruses, grab your tequila-infused sports drinks and dive into this week's unfiltered breakdown.
🎙️ On This Week's Show:
Stepstone Gives Detmers "Das Boot"
JobGet Ripples a Match
The Ruse of Job.com
George Larocque Says the Window is Closing
State of the Nation aka Tips, Yachts, & OpenAI "Job Slop"
AI Accents Gone Wrong
A massive birthday shoutout to our loyal listeners, especially TA leader Terry Dewey, who slashed their Indeed spend over the past year by following our tips! We don't need the free t-shirts and whiskey, Terry knowing we're saving you cash is enough (but we'll take the whiskey anyway).
Don't forget Go to chadandcheese.com/free to score your soft & cuddly t-shirts.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Chad Sowash (00:31.117)
Welcome to the Chad and Cheese, HR's most dangerous podcast. I'm Chad, happy in paradise. Sowash.
Emi Beredugo (00:40.943)
And I'm Emi, just Emi, Beredugo.
JT ODonnell (00:44.758)
And I'm JT. Body Armor Peach Mango is my drink of summer choice. O'Donnell.
Chad Sowash (00:50.583)
We're gonna talk about that. And on this week's show, Stepstone gives Detmers Das Boot. JobGet ripples a match. The market has already voted. Apparently, we know about that. And AI Accents. Yes, no, that's it. AI Accents. You're gonna love this show, kids. Let's do this.
Chad Sowash (01:17.003)
Ooh, it's Joel Free June. Believe that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, huh?
JT ODonnell (01:21.934)
Wild. Wild.
It's crazy.
Emi Beredugo (01:25.871)
I'm only joking, I miss you, Joe. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (01:28.331)
Everybody misses him, but I I I definitely have to say that all Americans, we we're envious. Okay. We're envious. we we see Europeans get like a month off. and we're and we're like, they don't work hard. But as soon as we get an opportunity, as soon as we get an opportunity, we take that month off. And as soon as Joel heard we were talking through kind of like, hey, let's take a look at how we, you know, different patterns on how we work the show and whatnot. As soon as we talked about a month off, he already had June.
It was done. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't wanna hear it, Americans. If you could do it, you would. You're just envious as shit, right? Huh? Huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, what's this drink? What's this what's this under armor thing?
Emi Beredugo (01:58.096)
He was out.
JT ODonnell (02:02.606)
You would.
Emi Beredugo (02:03.704)
Yeah.
JT ODonnell (02:05.026)
Amen. Amen.
Emi Beredugo (02:07.779)
We are lucky.
JT ODonnell (02:10.134)
Okay. All right. This is it. I'm not sponsored. This is called Body Armor Light. It's a sports drink, peach mango, but it's made with it's got made with electrolytes. It's all natural and it's got like coconut water in it, right? Honestly, but here's my thing. It's so good as a hydration tool, but it might also, it might also be really good with tequila or vodka. I'm just just throwing it out there. So try.
Chad Sowash (02:14.295)
Body armor.
Chad Sowash (02:22.455)
Sounds like Brondo.
Emi Beredugo (02:33.327)
Ooh, throwing it out there.
Chad Sowash (02:34.903)
You j I'm you haven't tested that yet, huh? Mm-hmm.
JT ODonnell (02:37.154)
Grab this stuff with a little tequila, vodka, a little seltzer. Drink a choice for the summer. You're hydrating and enjoying yourself. You're welcome, audience.
Chad Sowash (02:46.709)
I don't know if that still works. I don't know if that's but although this is a this is a great experiment. I would like to see how this turns out at the at the end of summer, JT. So report back if you would please. That would be great. that's awesome. So you've had some had some things going out going on. I know that Emmy, you had you had something and and and you wanted to roll that into a shout out because this is pretty big. This is big. It's the first time ever, right?
Emi Beredugo (02:46.765)
Lovely.
JT ODonnell (02:56.866)
I will, I will.
JT ODonnell (03:03.318)
Mm.
Emi Beredugo (03:06.371)
I did.
Emi Beredugo (03:13.811)
It is the first time ever. So I and I've just got to pre- like say this at the beginning. I'm not a football fan. I'm not a massive football fan. I will watch football when England is playing or when you know Nigeria's playing, got to support, you know, the home country. but I went down to the Arsenal ground because Arsenal won the Premier League, first time in about two decades.
Chad Sowash (03:28.813)
Course. yeah.
Chad Sowash (03:36.84)
Mm-hmm.
Emi Beredugo (03:38.721)
Amazing, amazing day out. I've never seen so many people on the street. It was like a carnival, like it was just round pack music playing. It was fantastic. So I might actually, I mean, luckily, my boyfriend doesn't listen to this podcast all the time. but I was gonna say, I might ask actually be now an Arsenal fan. If he is listening, I'm only joking, I still support Newcastle, but you know, for this week I'm supporting Arsenal.
Chad Sowash (04:10.059)
Yeah. That would hurt Steven too, since he's a a a Rangers fan. And they didn't do that great this season. They were number three, very, very, very late number three. yeah. And then I actually had a chance, and and again, this is not trying to stick anything in there. This is great. Arsenal's amazing, but watched PSG against Arsenal. And the reason why I mean we we hold that team so closely here in Portugal is because four of the starters
Emi Beredugo (04:17.355)
to yeah. Yeah.
Emi Beredugo (04:28.517)
god, yeah.
Chad Sowash (04:39.381)
are Portuguese and they're on the Portuguese national team. And it was funny because we had a bunch of Arsenal supporters that were here and they're like, Why are you wh why are you cheering for Paris Saint Germain? I said, because they have four Portuguese players. I support Portugal and Arsenal does not have any. So you guys just shut up over there.
Emi Beredugo (04:55.885)
Yeah.
Emi Beredugo (05:00.226)
That wa that was a painful that's the worst way to win penalties. It's like, my god.
Chad Sowash (05:04.191)
it is. Well, no, the worst way to win is to miss that last penalty as bad as he missed that last penalty. Whoo! Yeah. Yeah, that that hurt. That hurt. That hurt. Yeah. So all all the love to the Arsenal fans are out there. then all the love for the not Arsenal fans that are out there that you know, you can look at point at Champions League and say, Ha, you didn't get that one. what about what about you, JT?
Emi Beredugo (05:08.734)
my god. Yeah. Yeah. It's like all everything's on your head now. You're the reason why they didn't win.
Emi Beredugo (05:29.026)
Yeah, but
JT ODonnell (05:31.789)
I feel like I'm gonna be such a downer. So you know that our industry is all about like coining terms. You know what I mean? quiet quitting, the great recession, all these different terms. The latest one coming out is doom jobbing. Shout out to Doom Jobbing. It's basically tons of job seekers out there doom scrolling on all the job boards and putting themselves into a total panic and tizzy. And given the fact that we all know that a ton of those jobs are complete bogus.
Chad Sowash (05:38.73)
yeah.
Chad Sowash (05:42.037)
Yep. Jesus.
JT ODonnell (05:57.367)
Yeah, it's it's disheartening because you've got and I'm so excited, we're gonna be talking a lot about it today, and I'm really excited about talking about this. It's just job seekers don't understand that everything's changed. They they haven't caught up yet. And so we really have to get out there and spread the word because d job words are not how you're getting hired in twenty twenty six and beyond. End of story.
Emi Beredugo (06:19.341)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (06:19.393)
Yeah. I'm coining a new term. It's called job slop. We've got AI slop. We've got all this. This is the the the a I mean, we'll talk about it later. It's job slop. It's job slop. yeah, and that's good stuff. I'm gonna go ahead and give out a shout out to our listeners. Yes, I'm gonna get a little teary-eyed here because listeners love us. Wait a minute. Okay. last week.
JT ODonnell (06:24.15)
Yeah. I like it.
Emi Beredugo (06:38.444)
Ooh.
Chad Sowash (06:45.141)
was both Joel and and my birthday. Mine was on the twenty-seventh, his is on the twenty eighth. And we got message we we always get messages every day from our listeners. But this one was a birthday l message from a TA leader, Terry Dewey, who writes, quote, if I had a free t-shirt and whiskey to share with you, I would. But instead, I will send a big thank you and keep telling others to follow your podcast. Exclamation point.
your TA insights have made such an impact on our TA strategy. We reduced our indeed spend, yes, so much over the last year, in part from following your tips. Thank you and happy celebrating. No, thank you, Terry, and thank to all you listeners who are always reaching out to us. whether you agree with us, you don't agree with us, we love the interaction. and that being said, much like Terry was talking about.
Emi Beredugo (07:18.062)
What?
Emi Beredugo (07:26.934)
Right.
Chad Sowash (07:39.883)
You can sign up for free t shirts, free whiskey, free beer. And where would you do that? Well, here comes a little Steven.
Chad Sowash (07:56.993)
Would you put on a shirt?
Chad Sowash (08:09.9)
Yes, yes.
Chad Sowash (08:14.721)
Vintage.
Chad Sowash (08:43.309)
Yeah
Chad Sowash (09:00.161)
That's right. Go to chat and cheese dot com slash free. Beautiful t shirts. and again, these are soft. They're cuddly t shirts. yes, they have chad yeah Chad and Cheese faces on They're not they're they're not the most beautiful things that way, but they feel great. They feel great. Emmy's even got one on right now. it yeah, I know it is. Okay.
Emi Beredugo (09:17.811)
I have got one and it is soft.
Chad Sowash (09:25.001)
Where are we going? It's a where are we not going? No, it's Wreckfest coming up July 2nd, where we're gonna be in England at Nebworth Park all damned day. JT, what's going on? I you you love London. This is this is usually your baby, huh?
JT ODonnell (09:42.191)
I love London and I can't go and I'm so sad. But I would tell everybody you gotta go. It's like that you take a bus out there for the day. It is absolutely freaking awesome, is the only way to describe that thing. So I'm sad that I'm missing it. But I will tell you events wise, today is a big day. My new podcast launches live today on LinkedIn at two PM Eastern every Wednesday. it's called Pro Voice and we're really excited about it. It's taken months to plan and kick off. So I hope everybody tunes in.
Chad Sowash (09:49.249)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (10:03.254)
Nice.
JT ODonnell (10:10.73)
and listens up will never be as good as this one. I mean, let's face it, Chad and Cheese is the OG, but we're gonna do our best to try to be valuable to the job seekers out there and and the career professionals out there who, as we'll talk about today, like the way to brand yourself, the way to get hired, the way to keep your career in check is completely changed. And this podcast is gonna be about helping people survive that and thrive.
Chad Sowash (10:13.803)
stop. stop.
Chad Sowash (10:33.015)
Beautiful. So where are you going to be at Rackfest, Emmy? Huh?
Emi Beredugo (10:33.154)
Amazing.
Emi Beredugo (10:38.135)
I am going to be on the innovate stage. I cannot wait. Cannot wait. And I think I've said it before. Wreckfest is actually one of my favorite events of the year, just because of the people who were there, but the actual vibe as well. I always end up meeting people that, you know, I've known in the industry, not just from the UK, but even from my time in Dubai. And, you know, either they've flown over or they've now relocated back to the UK. So I am super, super excited to get on that innovate stage this year.
Chad Sowash (10:40.972)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (10:47.057)
yeah, it's a blast.
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (11:07.959)
Well, I'm super excited for you. You're gonna be imit MCing the innovate stage. Joel and I are gonna be popping over there every now and again. Joel and I we're gonna be on the disrupt stage. so yeah, we're we're gonna have a blast. and yes, kids, if you've never been to Wreckfest, it's probably the only event I know where companies bring their entire teams for a day of learning and then partying. that's
Emi Beredugo (11:14.432)
Absolutely.
Emi Beredugo (11:32.695)
Hotel!
Chad Sowash (11:34.059)
The way that the the the day ends is is a little party, a little love for the entire industry. It's wonderful. It's it's once it's a it's not once in a lifetime. It's every year, goddamn X it's it not to mention we're doing Nashville this year too. Anyway, I'm going too far. I'm going too far because it's time for.
Emi Beredugo (11:44.513)
Every yeah.
Chad Sowash (11:53.505)
Haha yes.
All right, so it's like it's been two weeks in a row where we've asked the question, yeah, what the hell is happening? we've got three topics we're gonna talk about in in the industry. And the first one, last week we talked about Stepstone and their CEO, Sebastian. Why am I still CEO Detmers? And before the show even aired, Sebastian took to LinkedIn to announce, and I quote
After 15 years, I'm stepping down as CEO at the Stepstone Group in September. He's going to be Christian Schmatzel, who probably saying that wrong. Schmatzel, who will be taking over its as CEO in September. Christian has served for nearly 14 years as co CEO. God, I hate that. Co CEO at Stroyer S E, one of Germany's biggest media companies.
Ladies, Stepstone Group owns Stepstone, Total Jobs, Irish Jobs, Jobs.ie, and a list of other smaller sites, but Appcast has got to be the biggest player, the crown jewel of their portfolio. Your your thoughts on debt Detmers getting kicked to the curve.
Emi Beredugo (13:14.957)
Who wants to go first? I suppose I'm I'm a little bit confused, right? Because Stepstone have been struggling for years. All their brands are struggling. So even though they're doing all these things like, yes, I'm investing AI and making, you know, like like every company. I don't understand. I get why they're kicking him out because there's time to, you know, to make a change. I don't understand why they're bringing in somebody who doesn't come from the industry.
Chad Sowash (13:19.703)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emi Beredugo (13:40.218)
I don't understand what value they're going to he he's going to bring. This was it Christian Schmaus? Schmaus? Schmarschel. Schmachel. Yeah, Schmashell. Hopefully that's correct. But I don't understand it. He comes from the media industry. They're sh a struggling brand. They need someone and they need an industry, you know, kind of veteran, titan, someone who's going to accelerate the company forward. I can just see them, you know, kind of continuing to dwindle. So yes, good idea. Him stepping down, this new person, good luck.
Chad Sowash (13:45.842)
Schmutzl? Schmetz Schmetzel? Mm.
Yes.
JT ODonnell (14:10.4)
Yeah. I'd like simple answer is they're bringing in an ad guy. I mean, just they're bringing in an ad guy. Let that sink in. If that doesn't tell you no. Can we do twenty twenty seven predictions that that company is not a job board company? Let's just be clear. They're smart enough to realize they've got traffic and assets there and job boards are dead. So you gotta make a pivot. Here comes the ad guy. He's got
Chad Sowash (14:10.711)
J T.
Chad Sowash (14:14.509)
Ha ha
Look at your face when you say that. They're bring they're bringing an ad guy.
Chad Sowash (14:25.908)
yeah.
JT ODonnell (14:35.0)
Plans and ideas to you know, clickbait people. It's I'm sure it's gonna get massively interesting, but he's an ad guy. I'm calling it.
Chad Sowash (14:46.459)
yeah. So where do I start here? Jesus. so I have three reasons why, to be quite frank, KKR sucks. But first and foremost, Detmars wasn't the guy for the job. He he has not been the guy for the job for a very long time. But I think this shows that KKR isn't the right owner either. And here are the three reasons why I think KKR are not the right reasons. Number one, Stepstone made a brilliant move and brilliant.
Emi Beredugo (15:03.661)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (15:16.023)
Bought AppCast, but then they squandered an opportunity to transform the company by pushing AppCast out front as the product and the tech leader. They have squandered what they bought and the momentum, right? number two, why in the hell are you bringing in an ad guy? Exactly. Exactly. It makes no sense whatsoever, right? How many times have we seen CEOs come in from other industries, fall flat on their face because they don't understand this industry, right?
Emi Beredugo (15:42.585)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (15:45.036)
What they want to do, maybe turn this into a media company. Good fucking luck, kids. Good luck. and then last but not least, okay, he's a media guy, but why another German guy? I I can't understand. Yeah, I I can't understand why a company that wants to be global. I mean, they bought AppCast. I mean, that that was that was the biggest player and programmatic in the US. They want to be global. Why they're so insular? Why they are looking inward so much. So
Emi Beredugo (15:56.943)
What's wrong with the Germans?
Chad Sowash (16:14.711)
KKR is a bad owner for Stepstone, and Detmers was obviously not the fit for their next move. But this next move is hard to understand as well, right? I mean, you guys, are you with me on those points? I I think I think this this is KKR. Yeah. All right, all right, all right. That was next to to the next point. What is happening? Okay. job get buys.
Emi Beredugo (16:23.546)
Mm.
JT ODonnell (16:29.4)
Yeah, yeah. Totally.
Emi Beredugo (16:29.956)
Totally with you. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (16:41.365)
Ripple match. This is from the press release quote the acquisition combines JobGets 100 million plus candidate network with Ripple Matches, early career marketplace, matching technology, employer relationships, and campus recruiting capabilities. Together, the combined platform expands JobGets reach across hourly frontline, hear that all the time, frontline, and early career hiring while helping employers identify qualified talent more efficiently. End quote. Remember
JobGet also acquired seasoned, snag a job, work in, and hair's job. So JT, thoughts on that acquisition?
JT ODonnell (17:20.034)
Yeah. So the the massive acquisition mode, I can't tell which of those without looking under the hood were aqua hires, right? Which of those were, you know, just grabbing the tech to make it look like they're building a stack. With the entry level job market being as bad as it is in the US and quite frankly is gonna stay bad because of you know the changes in AI. I can see them wanting to bring that together and getting those kids who graduate and have no jobs into their hourly jobs.
Chad Sowash (17:31.809)
Yeah. Or just portfolio of companies, yeah.
JT ODonnell (17:49.827)
Right. Bringing in this sort of a visibility factor there. Hey, there's no real jobs for you yet. So let's put you over here until you can get a real job. Great in theory, wrong in practice. As someone who works with these students all the time, that's the last thing they want to do after they spent money and time on a four year degree. Those jobs in their mind is beneath them. They'll go off, start their own little businesses, do whatever, but they will not succumb to that. So it's it's interesting. I I wish them the best of luck, but
Chad Sowash (17:56.087)
Mm-hmm.
Emi Beredugo (18:05.226)
Them. They'll go off and start their own little businesses, do whatever, but they will not succumb to that. So it's it's interesting. I I wish them the
JT ODonnell (18:14.528)
We're gonna talk about this in I think the next segment. I think that is a beautiful example of it's a little too late in the market and you gotta be careful of what you buy.
Emi Beredugo (18:17.044)
next segment. I think that is a beautiful example of it's a little too late in the market and you gotta be careful what you buy. So that's okay. This one kind of confused me a little bit. I'm not really sure why they've bit they went You know, and I was trying to think about it, like you know, I was doing more research and I was like I don't really get it. I don't really get why they've gone down this route, you know? yes, I haven't really got that much to say about this in in all honesty, other than
Chad Sowash (18:25.069)
Okay. Okay. Emmy?
Chad Sowash (18:36.439)
Mm.
Emi Beredugo (18:46.67)
Job get, please explain your strategy because I'm one confused person.
Chad Sowash (18:51.661)
So what Emma Emmy is actually saying is yes, so Job Get boasts being the number one app for hourly workers. Much like the Snaga job acquisition, Ripple Match just consolidates those portfolios and brands into the Job Get network. it's force multiplication from a from a market standpoint. I that's how I see it, right? Now you've got to remember a lot of those kids, not just we're we're not just talking about kids who are
Emi Beredugo (18:55.653)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (19:21.473)
Who are graduating? We're talking about kids that are in school that need part-time jobs to be able to pay for their beer, right? So this isn't just about when they graduate. This is also about when they're in school. So I think there could be some kind of an angle to that. but yeah, I think what they're trying to do, and we're hearing this over and over and over in the market, is not just consolidation, but frontline hiring. What big company that's out there right now?
Isn't talking about frontline hiring, frontline hiring, frontline hiring, frontline. And that's really because of if you take a look at the market, which sucks, that's where the main growth is. And even if you take a look at healthcare, there's a lot of frontline hiring that happens in healthcare, right? So yeah, this is this is an interesting, this is an interesting acquisition, but I think it's more consolidation. and it really just boasts bolsters their their their network.
Emi Beredugo (20:09.423)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (20:17.769)
after the s especially after the Snaga job.
JT ODonnell (20:21.326)
Mm.
Emi Beredugo (20:21.552)
I'm gonna take your word for it. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (20:23.169)
Ha ha ha.
JT ODonnell (20:23.734)
Okay. I mean it just that those kids even in school are against hourly. They're just anti hourly. It's gonna be interesting, you know.
Emi Beredugo (20:28.538)
Yeah I'll know.
Chad Sowash (20:31.819)
Yeah, but I mean when you want beer money, I mean, I, you know, I'm a Gen Xer talker. We did everything, right? I mean, we we were like we were shoveling, we were shoveling snow and making money. It's it it's it's a different mindset. I totally get it. But having the opportunity for there, I I don't know. I don't know. next one, next one. we've got we've got a guest. We've got a guest to talk a little bit about job.com. We've talked about job.com over the years and
JT ODonnell (20:35.576)
There's Yeah.
Why do we present?
Emi Beredugo (20:47.664)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (21:01.121)
We have we've got Julie who's popping in.
Julie Sowash (VIDEO)
Hey, baby. Hi, ladies. Are you enjoying Joel Free June is as much as I am? It's okay. I know you are. I'm at my favorite morning meditation spot because the story I'm about to share, it makes my blood pressure rise.
So, last summer, while we were busy holding a funeral for 90s tech and raging, honestly raging, over the dramatic mismanagement by Randstad and Apollo following the CareerBuilder and Monster bankruptcy, Job.com quietly filed Chapter 11 three weeks later. And none of us really batted an eye.
But after reading LinkedIn posts about missing wages and W-2s, and seeing yet another bankruptcy filing full of TA vendors who haven't been paid, honestly, I just couldn't get it off my mind. So, I dug in to unravel the reality behind the Job.com bankruptcy, the end of co-founders Arran Stewart and Paul Sloyan's ten-year tenure, and the impact it had and is still having on our community.
What you may not know is Job.com isn't one company; it's a stack, and Stewart and Sloyan ran all of it. And when it went bankrupt, neither of those men who founded the company were the ones to sign the petition. And you're going to love this. Why? Because a group of their lenders had already seized the equity, canned Stewart and Sloyan, and installed a turnaround CEO 60 days earlier.
And when their new CEO described what he found under the hood in his sworn statements, he describes what we saw publicly from employees and in public filings: payroll taxes that weren't being paid in states like Texas and Tennessee. Even the Federal Department of Labor is on the creditor list. And get this: an entire healthcare staffing crew that had to quit because they weren't being paid.
So, where are we now? The company sold for 35 million—much less than it owed. And so, just like Monster and CB, who gets screwed? The employees and the taxpayers, and the other TA vendors who are left the bag for millions.
But unlike Monster and CareerBuilder, there may actually be some personal accountability in this story. In New Jersey, both founders recently got hit with personal default judgments. Together, they owe almost 3 million—3 million dollars—to their former President and CEO.
Then, there's a third lawsuit that's actually still in process, and I am following every filing. So, if you want the lowdown on this story and more, I encourage you to subscribe to the Job Board Doctor newsletter at jobboarddoctor.com. And please, if you've got a tip, you know where to find me. Now back to the pod.
Chad Sowash (23:57.56)
She slipped in a commercial. Did you see what she did there? She slipped in a commercial. and it's funny because Joel and Julie are like brother and sister. They are always messing with each other. Always messing with each other. I I I love it. so I'm gonna go and take this first because we've talked about job job.com so much. over the past years, the model never made sense to me. They're actually on stage in Austin and they pitched. And the reason why they didn't win.
Emi Beredugo (23:59.746)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (24:25.837)
Arran Stewart is one of the most charismatic Elixir sales people I have ever seen in my fucking life. He is amazing, right? but they would buy staffing companies, then e inject their tech and monetization model into the business. But the twist was, and why, that the actual monetization percentage was lower.
It made no sense unless you bought like a big company like Ronstadt, because you couldn't scale that, right? You couldn't, you couldn't get your investors to say, hey, look, we've got margins over here that are at 10% or 15%, and we're gonna go ahead, we're gonna buy them, and we're gonna take the margins down to 2%. None of that made any fucking sense. Well, because that never made any sense, maybe it was never meant to make sense. Maybe it was a magic trick.
Emi Beredugo (24:59.396)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (25:20.865)
Watch your money go into my pocket and poof, it's gone, right? So, due to this, I guess you could call this a ruse. Arran and Paul are both separately on the hook for millions. But is that really enough? What about all their employees who were shafted and not paid? They're not getting paid. what about the insurance money that was withheld from employee checks and pocketed instead of paid to the insurance company? Yes.
Emi Beredugo (25:47.566)
What is that? Health their own health insurance.
Chad Sowash (25:50.922)
Yes. Also taxes. What what about the taxes that were collected and it was never paid to the government? What about those? All of it. All of it. And there's more, guys. There's more. I just can't get into it. because it's just so much for this segment. but I you know, there there's a word for it. I think I think it's called fraud, right? and yeah, I think it's called fraud. How these two are not in orange jumpsuits.
Emi Beredugo (25:53.2)
Okay.
Emi Beredugo (26:03.353)
Wow.
Emi Beredugo (26:14.0)
I think you might be right.
Chad Sowash (26:20.813)
I do not know. but I have to say, come on, people. You know, as they say on the London Tube, see it, say it, sorted. We cannot allow this shit to go without call calling Arran Stewart and Paul Sloyan's shit out to the world. Everybody has to know. There's no way in hell they should ever get into an executive position like this again. and
JT ODonnell (26:26.072)
You know, as they say on the
Emi Beredugo (26:31.262)
So that's
JT ODonnell (26:49.912)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (26:50.389)
knowing I I didn't really know Arran as a friend, but I did meet him through, you know, pitching and those types of things in this industry. again, incredibly charismatic, but apparently behind that, there was a lot of
Emi Beredugo (26:57.37)
Mm.
Chad Sowash (27:09.185)
Comments, no comments, it's entirely up to you guys.
JT ODonnell (27:11.192)
You know as as she was talking through
Chad Sowash (27:20.107)
Yes. God.
Emi Beredugo (27:20.976)
my god, yeah.
JT ODonnell (27:23.982)
Right. And it was just so unbelievable. What you don't know, maybe you don't know, is the end of that story, you were like, who would ever give this guy money again? Like, who would ever let him be in charge again? They did. He got and got and got mega funding. And so it you talk about the snake oil type salesman or the person that just got charisma out of the wazoo, you know.
Chad Sowash (27:24.578)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (27:35.319)
They did Yes.
Emi Beredugo (27:37.85)
They he set up another company, didn't he? Yeah.
JT ODonnell (27:49.859)
It's impr it's incredible. Presence matters, right? And again, plug for the podcast today. We're talking about presence, professional presence. But this thing is true. Whether you like it or not, this this is what wins. I mean, look at politics. And so I'm glad that this podcast is shining the light on it. hopefully enough people hear it and pay attention and look for other companies with similar themes. But it's probably not the last time we're gonna hear about this stuff, you know? It's just appalling, appalling.
Chad Sowash (28:15.831)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and if you're looking for more of a forensic accounting of what went on, seriously, Julie is the forensic person. When she digs into the the I mean, she literally gets legal briefs. I shit you not. She gets legal briefs delivered to her all the time where she's going through. it's it it's it's pretty amazing. but that being said, let's go ahead, let's let's take a break, let's breathe, let's
Emi Beredugo (28:21.232)
Mm-hmm.
Emi Beredugo (28:31.812)
Bailey.
Chad Sowash (28:45.003)
Enjoy our Guinness and we'll be right back.
Chad Sowash (28:51.583)
All right. so everybody knows George Larocque. I I think you you d do Emmy, do you know George Laroc?
Emi Beredugo (28:58.81)
I don't know him too well, but I've heard the name, yeah. W Work Tech, yeah.
Chad Sowash (29:00.713)
I love him. I love him. Great guy. He's been in the industry for a very long time. And this week, he spoke out in his newest piece on WorkTech entitled The Market Has Already Voted, where he sees what he calls the window closing on the following segments. Get ready. I'm gonna list these out. recruitment marketing CRM, internal mobility and talent marketplace providers, employee engagement and feedback, aka
Pulse survey providers, performance management and succession providers, compensation management providers, mentoring and coaching providers, standalone workflow automation, and traditional job boards. The window is closing on all of this. His thesis is backed by the following signals or lack of signals from number one, dried up funding, number two.
Buyer behavior, number three, MA or lack of MA, and number four, platform absorption, which really means platforms are already providing the service themselves. Ladies, are you backing all of George's takes? Are you backing away from these takes? JT, tell me about it.
JT ODonnell (30:14.742)
Yeah, no, I'm backing it. I will say, like, first of all, I just want to say that if if you link to this article for a lot of you, you're gonna want a translation. You know, run it through AI and tell it to give it back to you like a fifth grader. Because it's important to understand he tracks no, seriously, right? They use a lot of multi-syllabic words in there, aim to confuse, make you overthink. And it's really not that complex. he tracks where the money goes. He's got four indicators that you just talked about.
Chad Sowash (30:30.07)
yeah. yeah.
JT ODonnell (30:40.854)
And for me, what came to mind is an hourglass. And I want everybody to think about it this way. On the wide top part of the hourglass, you got the big companies. You got the work days of the world, right? On the bottom, big part of the hourglass is the pressure of AI pushing up, the other one's pushing down. You know what's in the middle? All the small businesses, all the businesses in our industry that do one function, one thing.
Emi Beredugo (30:54.064)
AI.
JT ODonnell (31:03.404)
And we've been talking about this squeeze for a while and we've been tracking all these things that have been happening in the market. I would say more so than we've ever seen in the last year: acquisitions, aqua hires, investments, etc. I'm with him. I think we've seen the shift. We've been calling this shift for a while. The key now is to spread the word. Every CHRO out there, every TA executive out there, you need to be asking yourself, should we be buying that? Should we right? You really need to be paying close attention to what's going on because it's changing so quickly. And
Emi Beredugo (31:09.37)
Say more so than we've ever seen in the last year.
Emi Beredugo (31:15.374)
him, I think we've seen a ship. We've been crawling this ship for a while. The key now is to spread the word. Every DHRO out there, every TA executive out there, you need to be asking yourself, should we buy that? Do we right, you really need to be paying close attention to what's going on because it's changing so quickly. And you know, I think we're gonna talk about work day and in Google Cloud and this big new announcement further supports exactly what he's saying.
JT ODonnell (31:33.132)
You know, I think we're gonna talk about work day in in Google Cloud and this big new announcement further supports exactly what he's saying, that this is happening. And for better or for worse, all the big companies win. Joel has a pet peeves about that. He's talked about it multiple times on the show. And you know, it is, it's frustrating to watch, but things are changing. You've got to be really careful where you spend your dollars right now because you could go spend money and go through a vendor process and buy something that literally is gonna be a a free add-on in something else you already have.
Emi Beredugo (31:43.898)
Big companies like Joel has looked at you about that.
And you know, it is, it's frustrating to watch, but things are changing. You've got to be really
this you could go spend money and go through a vendor process and buy something that literally is gonna be like
JT ODonnell (32:02.765)
This is the kind of chaos that's going on that he's talking about, which is what changes Delhi's spending pattern. So I'm with him. I know you're not a hundred percent, but I am.
Emi Beredugo (32:10.352)
Is it gonna be disruptive? I'm gonna say that I agree with him as well. You know, I was trying to be my, you know, put on my, you know, what yes, we're polite, you know, we're agreeable. You know, and I try, like I said, I try to put on my Chad hat and go, like, you know, there must be something I disagree with. But to be honest, not really. And I tell you where I'm coming from, much to what JT said, you know, if I think step back and think about my day job.
Chad Sowash (32:13.553)
Emmy, what do you think?
Chad Sowash (32:19.159)
You Europeans.
Chad Sowash (32:29.619)
Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
Emi Beredugo (32:37.838)
A lot of what we do is looking at technology, looking at our existing tech stack and look scouring the marketplace to see what else is out there. But whilst we're doing that, we're also trying to take into account the user experience, whether it's the recruiters or the hiring managers or interviewers. And one of the things that they don't want is multiple tech stacks. You know, they don't want to go start in an ATS and then go into another platform and then go into another platform and then another platform.
And I've worked at organizations where they, you know, they've just spent money on loads of stuff, but the users are complaining because they have too many tools. They just want one tool that can do the majority, or a few tools that can do the majority of things. So this is where I agree about the buyer behavior has shifted, you know. Standalone solutions are they're having to adapt because people want something different. They don't want that, like I said, that multiple platforms to
Chad Sowash (33:27.917)
Mm-hmm.
Emi Beredugo (33:34.713)
log into. So yeah, I do agree. I I think that when a new tool or new feature, because they're essentially features now, when a new feature comes out in time, a platform is going to purchase it. It's gonna, you know, it's just gonna become a feature list in a bigger platform. Yeah. And and it's a good strategy for those smaller companies. You know, let's go, let's bring out a new feature, we're gonna get acquired. Fantastic. But that means people who purchase the tools
Chad Sowash (33:52.309)
That's the strategy.
Emi Beredugo (34:04.6)
Or people evaluate new tools like myself, have to think about do I buy that tool now, that standalone feature now? Do I how much do I if I do go down that route, because I've got a problem now, do I how much do I actually invest? Because I don't invest so much into a tool that's actually going to disappear and be part of the existing tech stack which I have in two years' time. So yeah, I'm I'm agreeable. But let's see what you're gonna say. You're gonna argue with us now.
Chad Sowash (34:30.338)
No, it's hard to disagree with with George. He's he's so sweet and he's kind, but I'm gonna, but I'm gonna, but I'm gonna. yeah, yeah. First
Emi Beredugo (34:34.512)
no. no. He just set it up so nicely. I was like, my God, he's agreeable today. It's like, what's happened?
JT ODonnell (34:36.548)
here we go. It's the Guinness. It's the Guinness he's been drinking.
Chad Sowash (34:41.367)
First, first I I I wanna I definitely want to say thanks to George. I mean, whether you agree or disagree with George, his article gets us talking about what the actual fuck is happening in the space. differing opinion is always good. And we're gonna get to this, but we've seen this movie before, kids. This is not new, okay? So instead of hitting the long list of signals that he was talking about before or the the different platforms, I'm gonna just talk about the signals from a standpoint.
Emi Beredugo (35:07.664)
Mm.
Chad Sowash (35:10.517)
So why has funding dried up? It's a chaotic market combined with over-emphasizing AI while established platforms are still doing the heavy lifting. AI is not doing the heavy lifting right now. It's not happening. We're seeing boatloads of cash going to AI startups. Some good, most not so good. And even CEOs are saying they aren't seeing ROI. No shit.
We're still in the RD phase of AI and agents for most companies. For most companies. And in RD phase, what happens? You spend tons of money without return. That's what RD means. Rockets blow up. Duh. Next signal. Why are companies not buying these platforms? Have you seen have you seen the job numbers? Have you read or watched the news? What drives this space? Jobs and or actual employment.
Emi Beredugo (35:42.106)
Mm-hmm.
Emi Beredugo (36:05.391)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (36:07.329)
Which is down. Yes, some of the platforms need to evolve their monetization models. That's where my focus would have been evolving monetization models. But that doesn't mean that they're on their way out. And last but not least, I'd like to address the platform absorption aspect of this. And before we get into that, I'd like to say yes, JT, George should break this down more kindergarten style.
As opposed to PhDing the shit out of this, so everybody can understand it. But let's go ahead and do this for Joel. This is for you, Joel.
Chad Sowash (36:44.151)
You are goddamn straight. So let's talk about career site landing pages for a minute. yeah, the exciting, the exciting career site landing pages. Back in the mid-odds, search engine optimization became very important for company career sites. Applicant tracking system platforms were designed, were not designed to be indexed by Google. So they weren't indexed by Google. So they which means hiring company career sites and their corresponding jobs.
Emi Beredugo (37:05.924)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (37:13.409)
We're not being found on Google results page. That's when indeed started ranking better than Brandon searches, like let's say Marriott Jobs, then the actual ginormous company, Marriott. That's right, kids. You could search on Google for Marriott Jobs and indeed would have the first few results. And Marriott didn't even show up at first. Problem means opportunity. So guys like Joel Cheesman, that's right, Joel Cheesman.
JT ODonnell (37:22.806)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (37:43.09)
And his company, HRSEO, started working with hiring companies to help these newly formed pages get better rankings and recognized by Google. Then Doug Berg, a genius in our space, by the way, launched Jobs to Web in 2007, which was an actual platform that generated a search optimized footprint for companies. That point solution actually created an entire space.
JT ODonnell (37:51.448)
Making.
Emi Beredugo (38:01.329)
actual platform that generated a search.
Chad Sowash (38:11.927)
For career site platforms that exploded with vendors. And the leader in the space, Jobs to Web, was acquired by Success Factors in 2011 for $110 million. From that point on, applicant tracking systems either acquired, acquired, or built their own career site solutions. And for all intents and purposes, the career site platform space seemingly died. But always remember.
Emi Beredugo (38:16.654)
And we'll use it.
Emi Beredugo (38:33.968)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (38:41.751)
Bigger vendors buy smaller vendors, and then they they don't provide the proper care, affection, and or budgets that is necessary to keep those systems running. So guess what? They suck. And by the way, Shazami, happy dance, and all these new startup solutions are back in that space. It's the same as it ever was, right? So what am I saying? This is a cycle.
And to say these platforms or avenues to attract and manage talent are going extinct is to forc forget history. And I think George is incredibly smart, obviously from his PhD level article, but his signals are way off because the market is way off.
Emi Beredugo (39:32.437)
Hmm Yeah, yeah
JT ODonnell (39:33.25)
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna challenge you on that one a little bit there. I mean that was a that was a great history lesson, but here's the thing none of these companies are looking at this from the perspective of the job seeker. Y'all talk about user experience for the recruiter or the talent, everybody. Nobody really looks at the job seeker. And what you have now is this do I really wanna post a job when I know that AI resumes and AI bots are gonna stuff it with a thousand fake people? No.
Chad Sowash (39:35.191)
Good.
Chad Sowash (39:38.593)
Thank you. Thank you.
Emi Beredugo (39:39.961)
Right.
Chad Sowash (39:46.305)
They never ha well, I mean
JT ODonnell (39:59.905)
Not going to do that anymore. And it even happens on your careers pages. You talked about it yourself. Job slap is everywhere. The real change that's happening is that companies are going to search and find the talent they want, right? That's why you have ATS systems. But those ATS systems and the data in them for a large part is outdated and crud, you know, garbage in, garbage out. So what's really shifting in our marketplaces, we have to teach people how to.
document themselves and present themselves factually and authentically. That's what we want. We want real candidates giving us the skills and information we need so we can search and find them and interview them. Like and this it's breaking all at once. And I just I don't see us going back to any of the same ways that we are dealing with now. We have really have hit a tipping point, a change. Will it happen overnight? No. But the biggest problem you have here right now is the job seeker. They don't understand.
Emi Beredugo (40:31.056)
Skills and information we need, so we can search and find them and interview them. And this it's breaking all at once, and I just I don't see us.
of the same ways that we are dealing with now, we have really have hit a tipping point, a change. Will it happen overnight? No.
Emi Beredugo (40:52.016)
Right.
JT ODonnell (40:52.47)
Right. Everything's built for the recruiting side, not for them. And until we educate them on how to properly present themselves to us, you're still gonna have this dysfunction. So I'm still with him in in what he's talking about because it there is a shift here. And now we've we've got to make sense of it. We've gotta, like you said, I do agree with you. Like the AI isn't where it needs to be, but it will get there. And then once it's there, we're gonna see who the winners are, the players. And at the end of the day, where history does tend to repeat itself is it tends to be the bigger players. They've got
Emi Beredugo (40:56.432)
till we educate them on how to properly present themselves to us, you're still gonna have this
him and and what he's talking about because it there is a shift here and now we've we've gotta make sense of it. We've gotta like use that I do it use you like maybe I isn't where it used to be, but it will get better. And then once it's there, we're gonna see who the winners are and the players and at the end of the day where history does and repeat itself is it tends to be the bigger players. They've got
JT ODonnell (41:20.95)
More money in reserves, more resources, they can hang out longer in the tough times when the smaller companies can't. And so that's where I think he's still right.
Chad Sowash (41:22.263)
Mm-hmm.
Emi Beredugo (41:22.976)
resources, they can hang out longer in the tough times and smaller companies can't. And so
Chad Sowash (41:30.037)
I'm gonna continue with
Emi Beredugo (41:33.2)
my god, we got another one. Okay.
Chad Sowash (41:34.606)
So specifically on the job board side, Google's been trying their damnedest. Google's not a small company, kids. yeah, and they're also an AI company. Google has been trying their damnedest in the job space since 2005 when they launched Google Base. And I actually worked with the team at Google Base when I was at Direct Employers, which failed miserably. Fast forward to today with their Google for Jobs product, which is
JT ODonnell (41:35.198)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (42:03.987)
In total utter disarray with job slop from OpenAI & Google. It's total job slop. Julie and I took a step-by-step dive into Google for jobs with a TA leader yesterday. And it's nothing more than a cesspool of spam jobs and scam jobs from bad actors. And they are misrepresenting hiring companies, harvesting candidate profiles, and doing everything they can to keep candidates away from actually applying for jobs without paying.
Emi Beredugo (42:06.712)
Mm.
Chad Sowash (42:32.523)
Right, they gotta pay. There's like there's a paywall somewhere. It's a mess. Then we stepped over to open AI and Chat GPT's new jobs platform. And it was the same damn thing. Right. It was the same damn thing. So at the end of the day, to me, it's same as it ever was. The cycle is the cycle is not broken. It's just continuing on. So yeah.
Point solutions, point solutions are going to be acquired. They're going to be absorbed. That always happens. But the cycle's going to come back around because let's just say this. Any big system will not sustain the feature and or point solutions that we have today enough because they're not going to put the care and the money into them where they're worth the shit. And then guess what companies are going to do?
Emi Beredugo (43:00.59)
Well but when is
Emi Beredugo (43:05.764)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (43:25.815)
They're gonna go out and buy more point solutions. We've already seen it happen. It's gonna happen again.
Emi Beredugo (43:29.264)
But you're making a sweeping statement that every big player is going to be exactly, you know, acting exactly the same way and not invest in certain features. You know, for example, if you look at, you know, back in the day, you had platforms, is it job job distribution, job, job description, distribution platforms. You know, that was a standalone feature. That is in now. In yeah. So that's in the majority of ATSs. If you don't have that in your ATS, you'd be very surprised. That's just a standard feature. You look at
Chad Sowash (43:43.489)
Yeah. Yeah. The the broad beans.
Chad Sowash (43:55.928)
They just link to Broadbean, they link to these programmatic players. They see the the difference between that, and thanks for bringing that out, it's not the same. Because what they do is they're actually they're actually pointing into an app cast, into a Veritone, into a broad I mean a Broadbean, Veritone, into some of these different players. So they're they're already using point solutions as it is. They just made it easier.
Emi Beredugo (44:02.351)
Yeah.
Why?
Emi Beredugo (44:20.782)
No I d that okay, so you're you're naming a few, but I've used ATSs that that use have developed that feature themselves and have done it very well. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (44:28.673)
Yeah, they can you can push stuff into to to Indeed or what have you, but I mean they they're still they're still there.
JT ODonnell (44:33.11)
Yeah and and let's
Emi Beredugo (44:35.266)
100%. Even like, you know, job what's it, job description inclusive analyzers, you know, where they check to see how inclusive your your job description is. You know, you used to have no, but exactly, but you talk about point solutions. You know, we're talking to HR professionals. These are the these are the tools that we're buying. Not necessarily. You had Texio. Texio is a standalone point solution.
Chad Sowash (44:44.279)
Yeah, but that is so niche and
Chad Sowash (44:51.575)
That's a horrible point solution. It always was. Yes, it was. TextDeal was always a horrible platform and it's dying on the vine.
JT ODonnell (44:54.296)
But when
Emi Beredugo (45:03.628)
Exactly because it's a standalone product. They've had to pivot. But ATSs now have that, yeah, and we need, you know, organizations need that. No h how is it a bad idea? It was a bad idea it it was filling a gap that people needed.
Chad Sowash (45:08.021)
And they have. But it was a bad idea from the get go.
It was a bad idea for wait, okay. For lazy people, yeah. It it really was.
Emi Beredugo (45:20.77)
What but but for people who don't realize that certain words, you know, put off certain groups, you know, that it takes their thinking out of them. So
Chad Sowash (45:29.042)
This is going to be a different podcast entirely. I agree. I agree that you disagree. I agree that you disagree.
Emi Beredugo (45:30.8)
Yeah. Yeah.
JT ODonnell (45:38.126)
I just think that recruiting is changing fundamentally as we know it, right? Quiet hiring is skyrocketing Lincoln has LinkedIn has the data to approve the amount of hiring that's happening on their platform right now with jobs that are never publicly posted. And we can go down a rabbit hole about is that fair or is that not fair. But at the end of the day, that is what's happening and LinkedIn is scrubbing its own data by forcibly changing its algorithm to make job seekers and professionals update themselves on LinkedIn right now. They're doing one heck of a job with that AL algorithm, they're public about it.
They were all over the media last week. Entrepreneur magazine about their crackdown on AI Slop. They're cleaning up their LLM. They're cleaning up their database faster than anybody else. Right? And they're they're winning. I don't know what to tell you. So and again, not sponsored by them, but you can get as mad as you want, LinkedIn hater. You can get as mad as you want. They don't have to be the end all VL. What it's an example of the larger company winning.
Chad Sowash (46:16.545)
You've gotta get off your LinkedIn soapbox for God's sakes.
Down you gotta get off your LinkedIn soapbox. All right. Next, I'm not a hater. It's just that I don't think they're the end all be-all to everything that we do. Anyway, anyway, we're moving on. We're moving on. State of the nation segment. You gotta kill me here. Jesus. No, I do not. This is this is this is this is more fun. so this neck next segment.
Emi Beredugo (46:25.149)
JT ODonnell (46:38.38)
Who
Emi Beredugo (46:41.456)
He wants Joel back now. Look at him.
JT ODonnell (46:42.03)
Yeah.
Emi Beredugo (46:48.738)
Next second. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (46:52.457)
State of the nation. This is state of the nation stuff, kids. This is from, and I say nation, it's it's not just the US. I mean, it's also the UK and many other nations. but in the US, this is mainly for for you, Emmy, because you're going to enjoy this. We are a tipping culture because most servers and bartenders earn a sub-minimum wage. That's under $3 an hour, Emmy. that relies heavily on tips. Well, guess what?
Emi Beredugo (47:15.651)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (47:19.797)
Europeans are not a tipping culture, and in anticipation of millions of inter international World Cup visitors, some restaurants plan to automatically include tips, which sucks because it comes after football fans have already paid exorbitant prices for flights, lodging, and travel, right? So
Emi Beredugo (47:45.049)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (47:46.025)
In contrast, I I I want to be able to share something because you're you're all gonna in I didn't tell you about this one. You're gonna enjoy this.
Mo: (VIDEO)
Hi, can you imagine actually announcing that you were gonna lay off 1,400 people in a specific town, and then the very next day, driving into said town with your mega yacht that's worth 300 million dollars?
If you can't, you are normal. And if you can, you are Mark Zuckerberg.
Chad Sowash (48:10.327)
That's right. Thanks, Mo. Thanks, Mo. That's right. Zuck docks his 387-foot super yacht in Seattle, just a short walk from Meta's engineering center after announcing 1400, about 1400 layoffs in the Seattle area, about 20% of its local work workforce. But wait, but wait, kids. This from Yahoo Finance, Jamie Diamond says the American dream was slipping out of reach.
Emi Beredugo (48:11.12)
Hey bye.
Chad Sowash (48:39.679)
And he wanted to be part of the solution. So his bank put 40 million on the table. Emmy, tips, yachts, and Jamie Diamond on a white horse. Is this real or am I suffering from a weed induced gummy dream? I'm not sure yet. I'm not sure yet. Tell me what tell me what it is. Yes.
Emi Beredugo (48:53.744)
I mean, there's a lot going on there. What do we start with? Okay, tipping. So yes, you're right. Europeans do not tip. not typically. Not because we're stingy, because we pay people properly. That is the reason why. Yeah. So we we will do it, you know, if we think someone's had, you know, given us an exceptional service, absolutely we'll give them more. But it should never be a case that somebody needs to
Chad Sowash (49:10.071)
Yes. Thank you. Start with that. Yes.
Emi Beredugo (49:23.566)
You know, the only way they can pay their rent is depending on whether or not people actually tip them. I think that's a terrible, terrible kind of thing that goes on in the US. So yeah, I get it. I get it. You know, so many people coming into the country, their their workers are not going to get tips from the majority of people. So why not make it, you know, mandatory, included in the bill? My problem with that is they could just go down a route of, hey, we're in basically we're in the US. Please tip our service. You know, they could you know, they could go down that route. But
Chad Sowash (49:32.034)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (49:52.981)
And they did. Yeah.
Emi Beredugo (49:53.743)
Yeah, and yeah, some people have. But what about the local smaller businesses? What about the people who are in the neighborhood already, used to going to their local restaurants, suddenly seeing their bills being a little bit more expensive? They are probably gonna go, hey, what's going on here? Why do I need to pay more? Probably not gonna go to that restaurant. You know, they'll stay at home and watch it. So I'm not really sure that's the the best idea, the best route to go down. So that's the tip inside of things. What do we talk about yet afterwards? Mark Zuckerberg, idiot.
JT ODonnell (50:10.092)
Go.
Chad Sowash (50:10.956)
Mm-hmm.
Emi Beredugo (50:23.364)
He's a fucking idiot. Like, you know, he's insensitive. He has no empathy. He's just laid off a whole bunch of people. Then he's like rolling up in his super yard. Yeah. He, I don't know what I was gonna say, I don't know what planet he's on. It's not on planet Earth. I think we know that. You know, he's and I don't get it. He he I yeah, I don't get it. He's an he's an absolute idiot. And then Jamie Diamond. Now I kind of like this guy, you know, and I like I I I you know, I think it's quite a good idea.
Chad Sowash (50:29.247)
He's a robot. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (50:44.865)
Behold.
Chad Sowash (50:49.057)
He's running for president. That's what's happening.
Emi Beredugo (50:51.104)
absolutely. You know, the American dream, you know, work hard, play hard, you know, you'll get you'll get there in the end. If that's that isn't the case in 26, it's not going to be the case in 27 and beyond. So him investing in smaller businesses, I think it is a great idea. I like the fact that he's not giving it directly to the business, he's giving it to kind of in a organization that will help support and distribute the you know the 40 million accordingly. But
What he's also doing is making sure that they're financially educated as well. So that he I know that he's doing some kind of coaching pro coaching program to make sure people in vet the smaller businesses invest their money well, grow that money. So I like what he's doing. And if he wants to go to be president, I'm all for it. Go, Jamie.
JT ODonnell (51:42.318)
I love it.
Chad Sowash (51:44.609)
J T.
JT ODonnell (51:45.539)
Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I'm actually pro adding the twenty percent. And I'll talk through why. I believe when in Rome you're having a group of people come over that aren't used to tipping, are they having a good time, might not be aware of it, and might not even think about the direct impact they're having on that server who's working a ton of hours. Like it or not, they do get very little money. And the cost of food right now, the margins in in restaurants is really difficult. We're seeing that with everything that's going on with the economy. And so
Instead of them, you know, raising prices there, at least they're focusing on I want to make sure my people get paid, right? My want to make sure they get paid. I like your comment, Emmy, about, hey, what about the local people? But my hope there is that they understand and make it clear that, hey, we've temporarily done this because of the event that's in our town for a certain period of time. And that people would understand what we're trying to do is take care of our local employees so they can get paid instead of working like crazy and making nothing. So R
Chad Sowash (52:39.741)
And and they're probably Airbnb their place and getting the fuck out of town. Yeah. If they're smart. If they're smart.
Emi Beredugo (52:40.594)
Right out of the time. Yeah, maybe
JT ODonnell (52:44.366)
Right, because right, they don't want to be there. So you get it. Yeah, I just think it right now that is a temporary solution that is worker focused for those people. I'm I'm here for it. the second piece, so there's this big thing right now. There was quiet luxury was very 2025. Like you if you know, you know. This year, loud luxury is the name of the game. Apparently, Zach has taken that to a new, completely tone-deaf level. absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. And I'm glad that people were there booing. and then the third.
Chad Sowash (53:06.73)
Asshole.
Emi Beredugo (53:07.621)
Yeah.
Emi Beredugo (53:12.946)
I love that.
JT ODonnell (53:13.996)
Yeah, they were there, but great. Like and yelling, pay taxes. Like it was brilliant. Jamie Diamond's interesting. Forty million is nothing. Forty million is nothing. They're citing in there all these cute stories of how we got one guy's revenues up, this or that. It's cute to me. Is what I want to see is the 80 billion they're talking about. They said, Hey, if this is good, we're gonna put the 80 billion. Now you're talking something substantial for the small businesses out there that desperately, desperately need it. So I love it in theory. I love that it worked.
Emi Beredugo (53:32.132)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (53:38.252)
Never happen.
JT ODonnell (53:42.22)
Jamie, if you're listening, fellow Tufts alum, put the 80 billion in there, please. That is my my big vote there.
Chad Sowash (53:53.034)
Much like you just said, JT, forty million won't fix a screen door on Trump's new ballroom for God's sakes. And and the last thing Americ and the and the last thing that Americans need is a fucking billionaire like Jamie Diamond trying to fix things. Just pay your fucking taxes, okay? The problem is wages, wages, wages. We don't pay a living wage, so Americans have to tip at restaurants because our lawmakers are so weak in the knees.
Emi Beredugo (53:59.567)
It's a start. Yeah.
JT ODonnell (54:01.462)
With the start, but it's
Chad Sowash (54:21.623)
They're not voting for living wages. In California, they passed Assembly Bill 1228, which established a $20 per hour minimum wage for fast food workers at Chains with 60 or more nationwide l locations. Meanwhile, the state's general minimum wage is around seventeen dollars, right? For those saying, well, that's gonna impact my prices and what I pay, it's total bullshit. You s you see Berkeley did a did a study.
That showed the rise from $20 and $17, respectively, especially for fast food prices, rose 1.5 to 3.7%, which is about six to fifteen cents on a $4 menu item. Okay. Ultimately, the policy successfully injected hundreds of millions of dollars directly into the pockets of lower income workers.
Emi Beredugo (54:58.768)
Mm.
Chad Sowash (55:17.665)
That is immediately returned back into the local economy through the people buying shit. That's capitalism at scale, motherfuckers. That's exactly what we should be doing. So it what Jamie Diamond is doing is a diversion. The motherfucker's running for president. Fuck that dude. What we need to do is we need to focus on what he should be doing is he should be talking to lawmakers. If he wanted to make a ri No, he's not. He's fucking.
Emi Beredugo (55:35.6)
Why?
Emi Beredugo (55:42.03)
He is talking to lawmakers. He is.
Chad Sowash (55:45.292)
He's greasing their palms, is what he's doing. That's the problem. Read Citizens United, and then we'll have that discussion, Emmy. Then we'll have that discussion. He's all he's doing is he's fucking with his own brand. That's all he's doing. That's that's it. He's not helping people.
Emi Beredugo (55:51.842)
Yeah. But he's doing something. Who else is doing this? Is something is something not better than nothing?
Yeah, of course. He's a business person, but he's still helping people.
JT ODonnell (56:04.961)
Again, eighty billion. Eighty billion. There was the number was put out there. I'm I'm here for the eighty billion.
Emi Beredugo (56:09.86)
That's right. can I answer the Lady Boys? We'll be right back.
Chad Sowash (56:10.583)
That's right.
We'll be right back.
Okay, the Washington State Department of Licensing. This is going to be so exciting. The Washington State Department of Licensing, this is JT's favorite story like of all year. Recently updated its hotline with a fancy new AI system, but when callers pressed number two for Spanish, instead of getting actually translated help, they were greeted by an AI voice speaking perfect English, just in a really thick, stereotypical Spanish accent.
JT ODonnell (56:20.866)
This is my favorite.
JT ODonnell (56:26.572)
Ever, all time.
Emi Beredugo (56:46.711)
god.
Chad Sowash (56:47.437)
It's a nice it's a nice to know it's nice to know that even in the digital age, state governments still find brand new, highly advanced ways to waste taxpayers' monies. Any thoughts? Any thoughts?
JT ODonnell (56:59.084)
it's just it's just please let me go first, please, please. Read the whole article though, because they
Emi Beredugo (57:01.968)
Yeah, go for it.
JT ODonnell (57:09.198)
They come back and say we fixed it. And all it did was be like, I can't even do the accent right. Like, if you are this, press dos. Like those numbers only. Like
Chad Sowash (57:12.284)
Ha ha
Chad Sowash (57:19.969)
Ha ha ha ha ha
Chad Sowash (57:25.269)
And it's and it's funny, but it's not funny. It's not fun. And I and I want to make sure that listeners understand that immigrants and even undocumented immigrants, and this is in twenty twenty four because twenty twenty five, we're still waiting for those numbers. They paid almost one hundred billion, ninety six billion, almost a hundred billion dollars in taxes. They deserve to know what button to push for what, for God's sakes. Sorry, sorry, I mean, go ahead.
JT ODonnell (57:27.118)
It's so bad. It's so bad.
Emi Beredugo (57:29.698)
Yeah.
JT ODonnell (57:47.15)
Yeah.
Emi Beredugo (57:50.416)
Why for God's sake?
JT ODonnell (57:52.27)
Who who checked that thing? Like who installed it and didn't think to like try all? Like
Emi Beredugo (57:54.906)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (57:57.836)
I don't know. I don't know. What
Emi Beredugo (58:00.931)
I no, to be honest, I agree. I think it's absolutely hilarious. I just I'm trying to think like if I went to work and implemented a new tech tool and didn't actually test it before rolling it out, I probably would not be in a job. You know, what do you mean that you know I just paid all this money and then I believed what the vendor said, you know, it works. And then you find out later, months later, that it doesn't work. No, that's unacceptable, you know. So they're they're stupid from that point of view. Totally agree with you with from the accessibility.
JT ODonnell (58:01.005)
Chad Sowash (58:11.17)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (58:18.231)
Yes.
Emi Beredugo (58:29.594)
Point of view, you know, some people need to be able to, they don't, they're not fluent in English yet. So whilst they're getting to grips with the English language, you're offering them, you know, you know, a a service where you're actually speaking in a language, apparently, only to find yourself, you know, and speaking in a fake Spanish accent. Nah, idiots. They're absolutely idiots. And I really want to know who was responsible, who exactly in that company and what happened up to them.
Chad Sowash (58:46.727)
For the
Chad Sowash (58:55.028)
Yeah. I got not I got nothing to add other than
Yes, that was a joke, but yeah, Joel's gone, but there's still and and World Cup's coming, right? World Cup's coming. So I've got some World Cup jokes. Are you ready? Okay. So what did the referee say to the player who lied about a handball?
Emi Beredugo (59:10.307)
Yeah.
JT ODonnell (59:14.156)
Okay, let's go. Let's go.
Emi Beredugo (59:14.179)
Yep, yeah, go for it.
Emi Beredugo (59:23.375)
my mind went somewhere else. Not appropriate. my god
Chad Sowash (59:24.905)
I don't believe you. What what did the coach do when the field flooded during the World Cup?
JT ODonnell (59:26.953)
Yeah.
Emi Beredugo (59:36.57)
No.
Chad Sowash (59:37.399)
He's sending his subs. What can't his subs, his substitutions. Substitu subs, submarines, subs. there you go. Crazy, crazy. Why can't you play football in the jungle?
Emi Beredugo (59:39.928)
I didn't get that one.
JT ODonnell (59:44.224)
Substitution, submarine substitution.
Emi Beredugo (59:46.064)
that that went over my head. Yeah.
Emi Beredugo (59:53.946)
No?
Chad Sowash (59:55.522)
There are too many cheetahs. That's right.
Emi Beredugo (59:57.553)
I love that. I love that one. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (01:00:01.485)
Thanks so much, ladies. Thanks for starting out Joel Free June with me. we we love it, we love it, we miss him, we miss him, but we love it. And that's another one in the can. We out.
JT ODonnell (01:00:01.986)
Well done.
Emi Beredugo (01:00:07.225)
Yeah.
JT ODonnell (01:00:10.53)
We do, we do.
We out.
Emi Beredugo (01:00:15.235)
We out.