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Trump's Job Board Fetish

Trump and job boards finally made the podcast as one story. Rejoice and all hail the podcast gods.

What else is in this week's show?

Enjoy, and visit our sponsors Sovren, JobAdX and Canvas.


Disability Solutions partners with employers on disability inclusion initiatives to design scalable solutions to support strategic and operational goals in staffing, training, retention, compliance and engagement.

Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's Most Dangerous Podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Gobble, gobble, hidy-ho boys and girls. It's another weekly episode of Chad and Cheese. HR's Most Dangerous Podcast. I'm Joel Cheesman.

Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash.

Joel: Good to know. This week, Google is out performing Indeed. LinkedIn is on

pace for two billion, that's billion with a B. And Donald Trump loves Job Boards.

Chad: Asshole.

Joel: And this week's show is full of jive turkeys. Stay tuned for all the fixings right her after a word from JobAdX.

JobAdX: As the best ad tool in the industry, JobAdX has been providing job for publishers, direct employers, agencies, RPOs, and staffing firms. Dynamic job bidding and real time ad delivery to our programmatic job advertising exchange.

JobAdX: When we started, we described JobAdX as AdSense for jobs. Now, we offer much more with switch board and live alert. Completing our full suite of dynamic programmatic advertising tools with the best of consumer ad tech. Switch board offers our dynamic technologies to all partner job board feed management. And live alert eliminates latency and expired job ads via email.

JobAdX: For more information about any of our solutions, please reach out to us at That's JobAdX the best ad tool providing smarter programmatic for all your advertising needs.

Chad: I don't know that smarter has anything to do with this podcast by the way.

Joel: I say it's funny, but found the last remaining valley girl for their ad. Oh my God programmatic advertising.

Chad: So good.

Joel: Let's get the shout outs man. We got a long show today. I was hoping for an abbreviated version but not so lucky.

Chad: That's for next week.

Joel: I'll lead it off with Debbie Salado. I'm probably butchering that name, Citizens Bank. This is sort of self-interest. She's at Citizens Bank who I'm pitching tomorrow. However, she wasn't higher comp and we missed each other. So there is a little bit of a segue that makes sense. She is a fan of the show and we appreciate it. Thanks, Debbie.

Chad: Buy Something Debbie, please, please buy something.

Joel: Write a check Debbie, please, Christmas is coming.

Chad: Congrats to Ethan and Veronica. Now Bloomfield, they just got married. In their new home in Costa Rica. I just saw pictures of a flower laden, oxen pulling new married couple in a cart on a dirt road in Costa Rica. I mean that my friend is the life.

Joel: So romantic.

Chad: It awesome dude.

Joel: Shout out to New York City. We've done a lot of talk about higher cone from the show live this week, but the big apple never disappoints. We did the statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, Central Park at a cab. Good food. Good company. Laughs all around. And by the way, Mexico, the Mexican Barbecue Fusion Restaurant was a pleasant surprise for me at least.

Chad: Yeah. two Tecate with like TABASCO sauce and sprinkled with some ... What the hell was that?

Joel: It was a hot sauce and fused beer Tecate, as you mentioned, with a like a dusting of hot sauce. It was rather pleasant. I enjoyed it.

Chad: That was very pleasant. We went from one place which was more kind of high scale, and then we went to Mexique and that's where I think we felt pretty comfortable there.

Joel: We were much more in our element. Mexican Barbecue and Fusion Restaurant.

Chad: Yes. Shout out to Michael Ang from Job Elephant. Thanks for listening man. Sorry we weren't more heavy handed with handshake. Steven Rothberg would agree with you by the way.

Joel: What a great shout out. I wanted to talk about that when we brought up the Ed Newman to the middleman because this was a great. We did the handshake story and he came out and said handshake is a piling hot, steamy garbage pail of a site. So that was an interesting perspective, from handshake. So thanks for that.

Chad: Thanks. So thanks Michael. And a shout out to Vervoe, Vervoe, something that is not hot and steamy. Remember the Terry Tate Office Linebacker Reebok commercials. Remember those?

Joel: Men of a certain age I'll remember that commercial.

Chad: If you have never seen Terry Tate, the office linebacker go to YouTube, this very second type and Terry Tate's office linebacker. Watch those. They're fricking hilarious. So anyway, Vervoe, they put out these, this really cool ad. It was funny. It was centered around the people in the office and was really slick. It just, it reminded me of those office linebacker, without the concussions of course. But it was a really good ad. Good job for Vervoe and Omer over there.

Joel: Yeah. Australian companies are really great at not taking themselves too seriously. Shout out to thanksgiving.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: May be my favorite holiday. You don't have to have show up with gifts. You can eat and drink all you want and it's totally acceptable. And there's football on TV.

Chad: Yeah. Well, and sticking with that shout out to Ezekiel Elliott formally of the Ohio State University and currently running back with the Dallas Cowboys Zeke nailed 155 or I'm sorry, 151 yards rushing and one TD, but the big key here was hurdling over Trey Sullivan and totally poster rising him. That was pretty amazing.

Joel: Our affiliated ends aren't going to like that shout out, but-

Chad: That was especially for Ed.

Joel: I'll shut out from my wife who has Zeke on her fantasy squad who gave her a miraculous comeback on Monday night with his three touchdowns to win her the weekend fantasy. So I'll speak for her on that one.

Chad: Very nice. Very nice. Got a ven cat who you like to call big cat, CEO and founder of Job Yak. Who was on.

Joel: I thought a mere cat as well. Which when mere cat. Why didn't I think of that one?

Chad: That's so much more funny. He was on firing squad with Jobiak. So if you're going to check out the live show from New York City, do that, but also check out the newest firing squad with a big cat or mere cat from Job Yak. It's pretty awesome.

Joel: Either way, if you're a CEO out there this dude knows how to work the social aspect from an interview.

Chad: Oh yeah.

Joel: All over Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook. I mean, granted he has 60 engineers that I'll probably just do whatever the hell he says, but the number of shares and likes and everything from his stuff was really impressive. So if you're a CEO and you get interviewed, like take a tip from Meercat, How to get the most leverage from your social presence.

Chad: Not to mention he was concise. You've got to listen to the show. He was concise. He had his stuff together and he knew that Chad & Cheese podcast Firing Squad would be a great vehicle for his startup to actually sell. And obviously at the end of the day he's going to get graded by us and he could possibly get the Firing Squad. But the guy was confident. He was concise and at the end of the day had a really good show with him, but he knew how to leverage the podcast to be able to get out there.

Joel: Dude's a stud and Thank God we got away from the chat bot trend of Firing Squad. That was a nice change of pace for sure.

Chad: It was but that Russian female kind of sound wasn't bad. It made for a very good diverse effect between two dumb American guys.

Chad: My last shout out is to all of our sponsors and anybody out there listening. I had this amazing, incredibly smart idea for marketing for the holidays. And you still have time to do it. You can pull this off. You should do ugly sweaters with your logo in the ugly sweater itself. Obviously you're going to have to send something to Chad & Cheese because we came up with the idea. But that's the best swag for this time of year, don't you think?

Joel: All right, don't connect me to this bad idea.

Chad: That's a great idea.

Joel: And did you call it genius? Did I hear the word genius come out of your mouth?

Chad: Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty genius.

Joel: My last shout out goes to the book Circa 2118, which I have not read yet and we are doing an interview with Peter on the books, so I should get to reading it here pretty quickly. But I'm sure it's a great book. Everything I've heard, some of the views I've read are fantastic. So if you're in the workforce arena and we know you all are a circa 2118 is a must read for the holidays or a gift to give going into 2019,

Chad: I would say I would classify it as going from dystopia to utopia. There you go.

Joel: That's deep. That's deep.

Chad: It is a deep book.

Joel: On that, let's get to the show. What do you think?

Chad: Yup.

Joel: Indeed. With some new terms of service, what's going on there?

Chad: What dumb asses. So Indeed we just had a policy on staffing, right? They're kicking all of staffing out of their organic because their jobs just aren't good enough unless you pay. And then obviously their jobs are just fine, right? You've got shitty jobs, guys. We don't want them in our organic. Oh, wait a minute, you're gonna pay us. Oh, okay. Well let's go ahead and put them back in. This time it's a policy on talent networks. So the definition of a talent network from our friends. I use that term loosely at Indeed. Here's what the definition is. A talent network is a group of candidates that have expressed their interest in a specific company's job openings. Job Seekers opt in by giving their contact information to receive updates on new job openings and the company benefits by maintaining a list of interested candidates.

Chad: In some cases, companies will take contact information from a job application and add the job seeker to their new network without the job seeker's knowledge. That's what their definition of a talent network is. There a new policy, you want to hit the new policy?

Joel: Oh yeah, sure. Bullet points. This is fun. Joining a talent network must be a completely optional. It must be clear that talent network is not associated with the application process. Joining a talent network must occur after the apply process is clearly finished, not before. A talent network cannot be part of a larger share talent pool. Job Seekers should not receive contexts from any third parties. Communication must be limited to the updates on new specific vacancies at your company. And I love the explanation. Give me the explanation one. Okay.

Joel: The explanation for Alex's talent networks often create a bad user experience. Candidates should not be funneled through any process other than a direct application for the position.

Chad: So my first question is, will Indeed allow jobs leading to these talent networks in their organic if they're paid postings. Right. And just a reminder, once again, In deed's doing this for staffing. Well, they're not doing it in the organic. The only way that you can get it for staffing companies in the paid area, but they're talking about this bad experience. Right? And they've done the same thing with staffing companies. Are they going to do the same thing with companies? Are they gonna say, well it's a bad experience, but guess what if you're paying us, I guess the experience really just isn't that bad.

Joel: To me this feels like Indeed is just sort of gradually screwing everybody that it can without getting really over cross the line. So the first screw was Job Boards, right?

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Like, okay, your jobs are sort of duplicitous and crappy, but if you pay us like you're good to go and we're moving into like if you're staffing company you're no good if you're a Smashfly or like CRM-

Chad: Like the Phenom.

Joel: Like phenom into T like, you're no good, they're never probably going to bleed into the direct employers being no good, but they're definitely, I think sticking it to as many entities as they can to suck out as much profit as possible.

Chad: Well, okay. So that first line joining a talent network must be completely optional for the job seeker. I thought that seems doable and then I fricking smack myself and woke up and said fuck that. The direct employer pays for that talent network for the middleman, for the layer of cosmetic process, whatever the hell you want to call it, right? Who the hell is Indeed to dictate terms on how that company does business Indeed can suggest best practices and demonstrate those with case studies, Yada, yada yada. But you're not dictating anything assholes. I mean, that's the stance that a company needs to take. They are in fact impacting direct employers because employers are choosing to use those platforms for one reason or another, whether it's marketing or being able to keep candidates or individuals engaged. If they don't have a job for them now, they want to be able to keep them engaged. They use those platforms to do that now indeed saying, "Yeah, sorry employer, we know that you're paying for that, but not gonna happen." It's bullshit.

Joel: This is a big plan for them to release their own CRM that they can funnel people into.

Chad: Yeah, yeah. Well, somebody commented to me, he said it's free traffic on indeed. So Indeed can do whatever they want to do. And I agree that there's no question, but it's also content and without content indeed would be dead.

Joel: Yeah, I remember that comment. I think it was on social media that someone said that. And I totally agree with it, but there's, if you build an expectation as a service and people respond and create, build their own services around that and you pulled the rug from under them. I mean it's not like super cool. I understand that it's done and it can be done. But like for job boards, job boards were enjoying free traffic on Indeed and some paid for higher things and then Indeed pulled the rug out from under them and people were surprised at that because they've had sort of expected this service to sort of adhere to what they had always done. And people normally like when companies change stuff, so I get it. But there's also an expectation that things as they are shouldn't change too drastically. I mean, when Google does this, they sort of slowly and algorithmically change stuff. And I could see where indeed would change its algorithm to put these kinds of jobs at the page nine and 10 of the results to sort of smack them around and give them that information or that penalty passive aggressively as opposed to something like this that's a little bit more aggressive, but it's their business.

Chad: well, since all staffing jobs are going to be banned from Indeed organic at the first of the year, the search quality team isn't focused on identifying staffing companies anymore. So they're looking for other things to fuck up. Right? I mean, that's pretty much what's happening. Oh, we're not going to, we can't mess with staffing anymore because staffing is gone. They're out of the organic. So what are we going to focus on next? And last but not least, let's just be clear Indeed throws clicks and apps. Little of which are actually qualified applicants. So as they continue to do this and really cut off revenues to an extent other companies like the ZipRecruiter of the world and in other platforms that are focused on qualified, just only driving qualified candidates, they're the ones that are going to be the winner in this long term. Kind of a once again makes me feel like the monster and CareerBuilder of old when they were on the top of the mountain and they were just so proud of themselves. And then they got their ass kicked right off the top.

Joel: Which leads us, I think into our next story. Getting kicked in the what... I don't think we've ever talked about before. Had a blog post up this week or last week where they are seeing evidence from their postings that Google is outperforming Indeed, which we've been predicting for a long time. A quote from the story. I'm now seeing that Google for jobs as a top three source for traffic for our clients beating Indeed in many cases. And then goes into sort of how the see, what traffic sources are the highest rank, so not a year into Google for jobs and we're seeing them beating indeed for this company's clients, which is expected.

Chad: Yeah. And it's gonna happen even more as applicant tracking system start to do markups for all their feeds as obviously the middleman. So again, this just makes the fee norms and the smash flies and the clenches and all those platforms really focus on, okay, great if you're going, if you're going to come up with those bullshit types of policies, what we're gonna do is we're going to find ways to be able to replace that traffic. And we've heard of companies replacing that traffic and just moving on saying, guess what, you're not going to get my dollar. You're not going to get my vote.

Joel: Yeah. And if just to word those of you outlet out there listening, if you're tracking your traffic and your seeing Google for jobs overtaken Indeed, we'd love to hear story hit us at or #ChadCheese on Twitter.

Chad: Yeah. Or if you are from a talent network company or a direct employer ad agency and want to kind of give us some insights to this new policy and your feelings and whatnot. On the record, off the record, doesn't matter. Definitely hit us up on LinkedIn or Facebook or even on the LinkedIn Messenger.

Joel: Or just send us a random email with a fake address.

Chad: Don't do that.

Joel: And deep throat on it.

Chad: Don't do that.

Joel: All right. Facebook also vying for a nice piece of the Employment Pie. They continue to enhance their jobs component. A quick shout out to Chris Russell, friend of the show who has the most on his Rec Tech blog. The two enhancements city highlights easy share of jobs to groups and a new manage jobs tab from the pages site.

Chad: Yeah. Yeah, have you ever used Marketplace to sell anything?

Joel: I've purchased, I'm trying to think of fire sold something.

Chad: I mean I just, I just did this week. I mean it's really simple because you put it up on Marketplace and then Marketplace gives you a list of groups that you can post into. This sounds exactly like, I mean, again, it's predicated on marketplace anyway. So it just sounds like it's the same type of functionality to be able to provide more broad based distribution into groups that could be kind of niche groups that are focused on the types of jobs that you're posting.

Joel: Yeah, we actually have, now that you were talking have sold some stuff, bought some stuff. And we don't talk very much about Facebook and the impact on Craigslist, but it's got to be taking a hit Craigslist meaning, I had someone, I posted a job for a sort an odd job here around the house and I had to pay $5, which, yeah, is not a big deal, but how many people are saying, screw that. I thing $5 on Craigslist. I'm sure it's more money in certain markets, but and gravitating toward Facebook as a result. So I think everything I've heard from Facebook Marketplace has been positive, numbers out of Facebook is that one and for users on Facebook, I've looked for a job. We're hearing salespeople talk about Facebook being one of the top sort of questions and sources that companies are asking about. so yeah, we don't fall asleep on Facebook, but I think it's a lot of people are in danger of doing so. It shouldn't.

Chad: You had somebody come to your house and actually do something that you didn't want to do and it only costs five bucks and you think that's expensive. You cheap bastard.

Joel: I think I said - if you roll the tape back - that's not a lot of money.

Chad: Okay, good.

Joel: But it is very small little hurdle for people to put ... Craigslist for 15 years was free dude for just about everything and now it's not. So anyway.

Chad: Gotcha.

Joel: Let's break up this ridiculousness with a word from sovereign and then we'll talk about, I don't know what LinkedIn, Skills Gaps. All kinds of funs.

Chad: Yep. Strike up that band Joe.

Joel: Yes.

Sovren: Sovren is known for providing the world's best and most accurate parsing products and now based on that technology come Sovren's, artificial intelligence matching and scoring software in fractions of a second received match results that provide candidate scored by fit to job and just as importantly, the jumps fit to the candidate, make faster and better placements. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting That's SOVREN.COM. We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren software so human, you'll want to take it to dinner.

Chad: Okay. So that was not a banjo. But next time guys at Sovren, I want to request that that be a banjo on the music bed.

Joel: Chad wants a deliverance style da da ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding AI, matching.

Chad: Yeah. That's little bit too far, now getting into pig references and shit.

Joel: You got a pretty. All right. So LinkedIn.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: The few things in the news. Most interestingly I think 2 billion on pace this year for advertising on sort of their general media advertising pro products and services. 2 billion is a lot of money. Like that's nothing to sneeze at. And personally, I don't know if you've advertised on LinkedIn but it's a son of a bitch to get an ROI on LinkedIn. Like, I don't know, people have to be selling some expensive shit, at least in our market to get a good ROI on LinkedIn. So good for them, for making the money. But man, they got to find ways to get people better ROI because it's tough, man. It's expensive and the leads are hard to come by and yeah. So good for them on the 2 billion. I'm sure that will continue to escalate up. It's good for them to diversify from the recruiting side to get more sort of traditional advertising dollars online. But yeah, that was in the news and we thought we pointed out.

Chad: Yeah, roughly half of what Microsoft is making four billion ads. So I think that definitely says something. I mean, they are generating about two million posts per day in their feed. It's pretty damn interesting to see the growth and good for that man. That's freaking awesome. Which leads into more engagement in their company pages through the new redesign.

Joel: Yup. Yup. Out this week as well. They got a few updates to their company pages for jobs on number one on that list you can see who has signed up for job alerts from your company, which is obviously important. It's good to see who's engaging with your company. You can also surface recommended job candidates who visit your page, so not only who's applying to jobs, who's visiting your page, all good data, which number one, LinkedIn is very into, but also number two, LinkedIn is probably the best at. I was in a call with a people search engine, so to speak, or sourcing tool and they talked about their insights and the insights were very MEH compared to the insights that LinkedIn is able to garner because they have so much just great data.

Chad: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean also the integrations to Hootsuite and Crunchbase. So the Crunchbase side, being able to provide funding insights and then for Hootsuite to make it easier to get more content out there. I mean there're happy I'm sure to an extent with the 2 million posts and videos and stuff and shit like that goes out in their daily feed, but how can they do more? And that's what they're always focused on. More engagement, better engagement along with sharing content. Just with employees, so using this as an internal, I mean going through the page admins and the page admins can start to target only internal obviously employees to be able to share stuff on their LinkedIn pages or feeds as well. So I mean and again, remember they just bought glint for four to 500 million dollars so you can see they're going down the employee road to be able to focus more on helping companies retain and get that engagement.

Joel: Is it just me or does the internal communication thing sound a little bit like slack? Just me? No?

Chad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's a big step to go from LinkedIn feeds and Messenger to slack. But it could be done and it could be done through, I don't know, Microsoft teams.

Joel: Sure. I mean they're already have messages on LinkedIn. How hard would it be to segment that to only people within your company and having groups within that. And I don't know, man, I'm just saying.

Chad: There's a lot of crossover though. I mean, because we're seeing obviously Microsoft has dynamics talent and then they also have teams and teams is a direct slack competitor. So how could they perspectively leverage that within LinkedIn? I mean they're just ... Could they or maybe not. You never know how much technical debt they'd have to pay before they could do something like that.

Joel: By the way, remember Yammer?

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Internal tweeting and it was sort of slack before slack. I mean, Microsoft owns Yammer, there's gotta be some legacy tech or people that know what the hell is going on with that stuff. So I don't know. The pieces are there. Plus you throw in Skype is a telephone voice thing. Could be interesting.

Chad: There's redundancy all over the place, that's the thing.

Joel: Fire everybody and let's get to the skills gap, shall we?

Chad: Sure.

Joel: All right. So Codecademy technically out of Philly shutting down. What's up with that?

Chad: Yeah. So Roy Mauer over at Sherman put out a great article, talked about the skills gaps fall out and how it lands on HR. It's HR's fault, And then we start to see a code academy start to shut down. So you're like, how do you put those things together? And to be quite frank, what we need to do on the HR side and talent acquisition side of the house is we need to focus on building talent pipelines, not only searching for individuals who have those skills. We had a great conversation in New York over Thai food last week with the hiring sof guys and some of their clients and one of their clients said, "Hey, look, we've got to hire 800 engineers in the next 90 days or something." And if that's where you're at, you've already lost.

Chad: Not because you can't do it right now, but because you're always going to chase your tail, that's not going to be the last time you have to do that stupid shit. Right? Because you haven't built an actual pipeline. So for these types of Codeacademies that are actually going the way the Dodo, the reason why they're not working is because they don't have the support of these big companies. They're, they're looking for really the individual to pay the freight or government to pay the freight when that's not who should be paying the freight, companies should be paying the freight for this. Right?

Joel: Mm-hmm (affirmative) what was the story is it's getting cold and wintry here in the Midwest about the ... What was the one animal that stored up the food during the summer, was it the rabbit or something that partied all summer and then basically starved when winter came, like companies should learn from that and learn to be less reactionary and more sort of proactive with the talent and what's coming down the pike and not relying on schools or government or whatever to provide the talent that they need or immigration, et cetera. It seemed like a pretty common sense idea.

Chad: So the Codeacademy, those types of entities need to live inside of companies or coalitions of companies, not outside. That'll allow them to expand and contract as necessary. Not to mention you can skill up much faster if you're inside those organizations and they know what's next. Companies in many cases are just waiting for the universities to catch up to what they've been doing for 18, who knows how many months. So we're in a model today that's a 1940's type of model, 1950's type of model. Send them to schools. They're going to learn everything that they want and need. No, they can't. Moore's law has already pushed us too fast. So to be able to get that talent, much closer to the actual job, you'll do something like Sam Houston high school hopefully is doing with cyber security. You posted that, talk a little bit about that. It could be a pretty cool endeavor.

Joel: Yeah, I love this. I mean, I've talked about a local high school where my mom lives, the auto parts or learning how to repair cars and that stuff is sponsored by O'Reilly's or whatever. A company sponsoring that whole segment of high school and geez, a Texas high school down in San Antonio is really getting with the times. They're helping train cyber security professionals at the high school level. So I just have to say and what a great service they're providing their students because these are skills that will be in real demand in the next many decades to come.

Chad: Well, that's a possibility though. But it could go the way of the Codeacademy if they're not directly connected with companies. Or the federal government. Because obviously the federal government, you need cyber security individuals. If the federal government is a part of this and they're pipelining these kids into their ranks, that is incredibly smart. If these corporations who need cyber security, if they're doing the same thing and they're closely associated and affiliated to ensure that curriculum stays at the pace it needs to, then yes. Although if they don't and they are doing things in the same vein as the Codeacademy, they're going to shut down because they're not going to be able to keep up pace and they're not going to be directly connected to where the students can actually get employments

Joel: Yeah. And by the way, the smart companies out there, will get into this high school and meet these kids and maybe have internships with jobs waiting once they graduate from certain colleges with certain degrees. This is a prime opportunity for companies to get in early on this talent, these rookies that are coming in and get them into the firm system and get them on the team when the time is right.

Chad: Get them on contract dude. I mean, seriously, get them on contract.

Joel: Internships if not-

Chad: Yeah. Internships, if you want a commitment. You want a commitment. If a company's going to pay, let's say for you to go through and get a degree or get certificates or whatever it is, there's got to be some type of commitment in place. I mean, just like the military, you go into the military, there's a commitment, there's a commitment there because they're going to teach you a trade, teach you a skill and after they do that, obviously you're there's for two years, three years, four years, who knows? Same kind of format can be applied very easily and is being applied by organizations. The problem is that should be the standard, not something that seems on the fringe.

Joel: By the way, people are leaving their jobs at the highest rates since 20O1. This came out this week. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported 2.4% of American workers voluntarily left their jobs in July. Again, this is the highest rates since April 2001. Employees leave their jobs for many reasons, including compensation or lack of growth. But things like modern networking make it easier for employees to find and change jobs.

Chad: Amazing, amazing. Again, locally, we have an HVAC company who's doing exactly what I said because it's so hard to find heating, plumbing, air conditioning types of individuals. So they're taking them and they're sending them, paying for school, putting them on a contract. I talked to the guy's like, "Yeah, I'm about ready to get off my contract, but I'm going to stay with this company. I mean, they believed in me. They paid for me to be where I am today." If you want real retention, that's a great way to get there. That's a great way. It's not 100% foolproof. You still have to treat them well. But it's a damn good step.

Joel: When are we going to just bring back and dentured servitude? I think that needs to come back. Let's get a quick ad from canvas and we'll talk about all the stupid stuff that we talked about. The end of the show.

Chad: I love it.

Canvas: Canvas is the world's first intelligent text based interviewing platform, empowering recruiters to engage screen and coordinate logistics via text and so much more. We keep the human that's you at the center. While Canvasbot is at your side adding automation to your workflow. Canvas leverages the latest in machine learning technology and has powerful integrations that help you make the most of every minute of your day, easily amplify your employment brand with your newest culture video or add some personality to the mix by firing off a Bitmoji. We make compliance easy and are laser focused on recruiter success. Request a demo at and in 20 minutes we'll show you how to text at the speed of talent, that's Get ready to text at the speed of talent.

Chad: Why don't we have a chat and cheese culture video? I don't understand.

Joel: Because we would have proof of the absolute meet headed this and probably regulations that were violating.

Chad: It could be awesome.

Joel: Dude. Microchips. I don't ... Man.

Chad: Again.

Joel: This is an England right? Like 1000 employee-

Chad: What in the hell? I don't know. I think everybody tries this shit in the UK first. I don't know why the UK allows it. It's kinda like the haptic bracelets that Amazon was using and when the employees would go to the bathroom or something like that, they would know that they were at the bathroom or it's just a different way to track. Right?

Joel: Yeah. Well we talked about this. It was an American company, Detroit or something. They were-

Chad: Wisconsin.

Joel: People were actually volunteering to get microchips bodied, so like get in the door faster and bypass security. It's just mind boggling that this should happen.

Chad: And for the copier machine, that was one of the big-

Joel: Oh yeah. Please inject me with a microchip so I can fax quicker and print out stuff more efficiently.

Chad: Oh yeah. Cause everybody uses faxes today. Let me tell you. And copiers, I can't tell you the last time I actually touched a copier. It's really interesting. So the guy who's doing this in the UK claims that microchips are just a community service that he offers and people like you and I, Joel, we're just not in the learning curve yet. If this came from a government, I'd be like, yeah, that's not going to happen. But then he said, 'We're a private actor. We're doing this with our community, for our community." This guy is so full of shit. Has he not seen what private actors actually do?

Joel: Dude, they put this thing between your thumb and forefinger? It's takes about two seconds and feel similarly to getting your ear pierced? Sounds great. Sign me up.

Chad: Yeah. No, no, unless I'm James Bond and they want to track me because I'm an asset and they can't lose the asset and that's something that I just going to have to do because the government says that at that level of being an asset, but to do it just so that I can use the fucking copier, no.

Joel: By the way, it says in Switzerland, an estimated 4000 people are implanted with microchips, including about 85 of the 500 people employed by TUI T-U-I a travel operator.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Why is this just not a bigger story. 4,000 people in Switzerland have microchips.

Chad: Jeez.

Joel: God bless America.

Chad: I don't get it. Dumbfounded.

Joel: All right, you want to talk automation or AI on the board of directors?

Chad: Well, it's Kinda the same thing. So let's do border director. So from Forbes magazine, from Forbes I saw this really cool headline that talked about AI in recruiting. I thought, man, I want to read this. And then there was something even better. It talked about AI and how it's actually helping organizations. So here's a quote, in fact, a Hong Kong venture capital firm recently appointed an AI Algorithm to its board of directors. The company credits AI with pulling the firm back from the brink of bankruptcy because humans are fucking stupid. That's me, not the article, executives at deep knowledge ventures noticed the firm was funding way too many over hyped projects and AI is solved this problem by helping the firm make more logical fact based decisions because humans are stupid. It's amazing.

Joel: Why not just have it as AI helps us make decisions like business decisions.

Chad: Well, yeah. So, this is very surreal to me because you mentioned earlier Peter Weddle's book Circa 2118, it actually talks about board of directors being overtaken by AI because we're dumb humans and AI just makes better business decisions as you can see from this article. It goes on to talk about recruiting, but to be quite frank, the recruiting stuff is things that we talk about all the time. This, to me, I thought was fascinating.

Joel: It is fascinating. Yeah. ZipRecruiter just added three big heavy hitters to their board of directors, including the likes of GoDaddy's former CEO, an ex Facebooker who got them through their IPO. I just don't know if having AI has the same kind of gravitas that having some great names on your board gives you, maybe.

Chad: Well, I don't think it matters. I think the actual results matter. So if they pull AI onto their board and these types of results happen, I thought you were gonna say Sophia by the way. But if they, if they can pull AI onto their board and get rid of stupid humans who were making dumb decisions, then it doesn't matter about the Gravitas. I mean that's just all going to fade out the window because it's all about outcomes and numbers.

Joel: I feel a new business coming on like people are gonna have, it's gonna be AI board members or something and you'll customize your AI experience and yes, throwing a robot to actually go to board meetings and talk to you as part as part of this program.

Chad: Yeah. No, it would have to be.

Joel: As long as they don't start podcasting, I guess we're safe. Trump who we rarely talk about. At least-

Chad: And there's a reason for that.

Joel: Yeah. The trump administration posted a job on a job board recently.

Chad: So this is what happens when you can't find people who want to work at your organization. I don't care if it's the White House, I don't care what it is. This is what happens when you have to post jobs. But then let's go ahead and pull the White House back into this discussion. It's the fucking White House, Dude. You should be turning people away left and right because they want the honor and prestige of actually saying that they worked in the White House. They can put on their resume. I mean, that is some pretty next level shit. But guess what? They can't find people because of the organizational culture. That's what's happening.

Joel: And by the way, it's usually some of the best and brightest our country has to offer that wants to get into the White House and work there.

Chad: Oh, I'm out.

Joel: We out.

Chad: We out.

Ema: Hi, I'm Ema. Thanks for listening to my dad, the Chad and his buddy Cheese. This has been The Chad & Cheese podcast. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google play, or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss a single show. Be sure to check out our sponsors because their money goes to my college fund, for more visit

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