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2020 is Surreal, Right?

This week's show is a touchdown (honoring the NFL season, obvi ;) But it's a weird, surreal COVID kind of touchdown, like 2020 has delivered.

But there is GOOD NEWS!

Want more you greedy bastards? How about a job board dedicated to space jobs!

As always, powered by Sovren, JobAdx, and Jobvite.


INTRO (12s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (20s):

Are you ready for some football? Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast, AKA dumb and dumber. I'm your co-host Joel "Jim Brown" Cheeseman.

Chad (-):

and I'm Chad "is fantasy football really going to happen?" Sowash.

Joel (35s):

So we'll see this week Jobvite continues the shopping spree Bullhorn gets a new sugar daddy, or is that mama, is that sexist? I don't know. And Space gets a job board. Hey Chad, your brain called, it's got some space for rent.

Chad (52s):


Jobvite (55s):

"Jobvite has changed our recruiting practice by making us more nimble. We're able to hire faster, but that means that things like where it would take us weeks to get approval from hiring managers or the next level up, that's now minutes." "It's really the best cutting edge tools out there available for talent acquisition today." "I would absolutely recommend a Jobvite to my peers it allows you to get in front talent that other tools won't do." Recruit with purpose, hire with confidence, visit to learn more.

Joel (1m 24s):

Let the good times, roll at Jobvite. We'll get to that in a second.

Chad (1m 31s):

They're definitely gonna roll first off. Is this really happening? Are we really going to get NFL football?

Joel (1m 37s):

I think we are. If the NFL or the NBA and the NHL or any indication, I mean, there are a lot more moving parts in football and they're actually traveling. I'm moderately optimistic. I'm also sorta torn in that there's no Buckeye football this year, but there's college football. So I don't know how to feel about that one.

Chad (2m 1s):

Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, the NFL is not going to be in a bubble like the NFL NHL or the NBA. So I don't think that's a comparison we can make. I think we might have to look at it more like baseball and baseball had issues early on. I mean, shit. They had to cancel games. I mean, they, they were having a COVIDtastic season for awhile. So I mean, this will, we'll see, but I'm pretty, pretty excited to see if they can keep players safe. I know that some of the players have already said that they're not going to play this season, which is, you know, it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Chad (2m 37s):

Understandable, make a lot of money, the last thing you want to do is put yourself at risk, but yes, NFL football and we had our draft last week, which again, seems so surreal. Cause it was like, I have no fucking clue. These people are gonna play. I mean, that's, that's the hardest part, right? Injury's, one thing.

Joel (2m 55s):

Fantasy is going to be a mess. Cause you're going to have entire teams like not play. You're gonna have like players that are stars, not play for it. It's going to be a GM nightmare, if you're a fantasy football aficionados. So let's, let's go on a limb here assuming they complete the season who are your two super bowl teams and who's your winner?

Chad (3m 16s):

Oh the Colts this year, baby. This is their year.

Joel (3m 19s):

Wow. Alright. Do you have one of the what? 10% or 5% it's open to, that's going to be weird too. Like I know the Browns have 10% capacity.

Chad (3m 30s):

Yeah. I think the Chiefs are open 20%. I think it's, it's it's up to the actual teams themselves. I think this is also another interesting setup is like again, the NBA was really governed by the NBA to an extent, not really the teams. They're like, Hey here, here's what we're going to do. Here's how we're going to do it. Here's the strategy. And this is how, we're going to keep everyone safe. But we didn't see that from really major league baseball. I mean, Goodell's not going to do any of that shit. He's he's much more of like a Trump do whatever the fuck you want, kind of a thing.

Chad (4m 1s):

I'm just going to sit here and cash my fucking check.

Joel (4m 4s):

No doubt. No doubt. So, okay. We've got the Colts from the AFC. Who's your NFC team and who's your

Chad (4m 9s):

Fucking Niners dude. I mean, those guys were playing so well last year, defense wins wins championships. I'd love to see those two play. Again, I think, I think definitely the culture's a long shot, but man, they, they are stacked this year, especially on defense.

Joel (4m 26s):

You think Philip Rivers will stay vertical all season? Or do you think Brissett have to come in at some point.

Chad (4m 32s):

No, no dude, the Colts have one of the best offer pensive lines in the NFL. That's why I believe river said, fuck. Yeah, I'll come play, the last thing I need is to be on my back after what shit, how many years has he been in the league?

Joel (4m 48s):

2005. I think he came in? so 15, 16 years.

Chad (4m 51s):

He wanted to play it safe. He was smart, I'm sure to play these, these last few years out, the last thing he needs to be on his ass.

Joel (5m 1s):

So for me, I, it's cliche, but I mean, I think the Chiefs train rolls on, I think they're not going to have a hangover because they had COVID, right? So whereas most Superbowl winning teams go and party and get crazy and, and Gronk, these guys had to stay home. There were no crazy endorsements or commercials that these guys, you know, got on. So I think they've been strictly business. The paths are obviously going to be weird this year. So I don't know about them.

Joel (5m 31s):

I think the Colts will be good. And I think Baltimore is going to be a juggernaut.

Chad (5m 34s):

Oh Yeah.

Joel (5m 34s):

So we'll see that goes.

Chad (5m 37s):

Hoping to see J K Dobbins, get the ball, get the rock.

Joel (5m 41s):

Yeah, they're going to have to share the ball with one, the quarterback and a few other guys. Yeah. But yeah, Dobbins, I think we'll have a good season. I kinda like the Saints out of the NFC. I think they've been heartbroken and crushed in the last few years.

Chad (5m 55s):


Joel (5m 55s):

And I think that this year, they kind of get over the hump. They stay healthy. Breeze has one last sort of, you know, role in them. And it's a, it's a Saints V. Chiefs Superbowl. And I think the Chiefs are back to back winners. My first pick Michael Thomas. Mine too look at that! Dude, he's the best receiver in football. The dude is glue. The dude is awesome. I do hope that Josh Gordon can stay healthy. I think the, I think the Seahawks will be a real tough out in the NFC.

Chad (6m 25s):

We shall see. We shall see. So shout outs.

Joel (6m 27s):

Shoutouts! Okay, here we go kids.

Chad (6m 30s):

2 weeks in a row kids, Jeremy Roberts broke the internet this week. We know that first day of school picture new take in front of the front door. He posted a first day back to work, pick with a ridiculously COVID outfit, it was hilarious, good job, Jay.

Joel (6m 52s):

Yeah, it reminded me of a, if you've seen Mr. Mom, Michael Keaton, when he's, when he's at home and the flannel and the beard, Jeremy's not too far from that. Also I think I saw some rubber Birkenstocks. I'm not sure if that's a no, no or a fashion no, no,

Chad (7m 11s):

I don't think they were rubber.

Joel (7m 11s):

on that. But yeah. Jeremy, Jeremy, thanks for that dude. Shout out to Craig Newmark. Most of you will know Craig's list. May not know Craig, but he's the Craig behind the list.

Chad (7m 21s):

Throw back to 1995.

Joel (7m 24s):

He apparently flipped over the couch and found $200 million that he's going to invest in saving journalism and of course defeating Donald Trump. So Craig, shout out to you man, using that money wisely. I hope it works long time.

Chad (7m 42s):

Listener James Lord from Xref. What kind of fuckingg name is that? James Lord. That's fucking awesome. And new listener Justin McGregor over at Beamery. Thanks for listening gents. Now get the family, friends, peers, and social peeps listening as well. Go to hit that subscribe button kids. Hell yeah. Don't miss an episode.

Joel (8m 4s):

Shout out to young adults.

Chad (8m 6s):

Oh Jesus!

Joel (8m 6s):

You're going to love this so much. This is from Pew Research, found out that a majority live with their parents. Still a boy,

Chad (8m 17s):

Fifty-Two percent (52%).

Joel (8m 19s):

Not since the great depression has the world seen a bigger bunch of slackers, deadbeats and blood suckers. Congratulations kids.

Chad (8m 28s):

52% in the great depression, it was 48%. If that tells you anything

Joel (8m 35s):

Way to go, young people.

Chad (8m 36s):

Shout out to Peter Clayton who tweets and I quote, Oh my fucking God, Jason Goldberg, carnival barker, I almost fell out of my chair. That was a reference to last week's podcast.

Joel (8m 51s):

That was you?

Chad (8m 51s):

Yeah, that was the reference to last week's podcast as we were talking about Aaron Stewart and given us the, the old carnival barker from a death match. So if you haven't heard that, check it out last week's podcast.

Joel (9m 9s):

Peter Clayton with the potty mouth, who knew, who knew? And then shout out to Aaron, who's actually gonna come on the show, drop his nuts!

Chad (9m 16s):

He has to!

Joel (9m 16s):

Explain himself, face us and face the music on what the hell happened at Death Match in Austin. Shout out to Bolster. You've heard the, you've heard the Uber of everything. Now we have the Uber for executive teams Bolster raised $6 million this week to a, I don't know, just plug and play executive teams into companies that that's kind of interesting.

Chad (9m 42s):

I guess that sounds fucking stupid. Big shout out to Joey price of the Business Life and Coffee podcast, he loved and who didn't? He loved our Cindy Gallop blow shit up podcast kids. If you don't know who Cindy Gallop is, you need to check out the podcast. This lady is an icon business, marketing, but guess what? Part two is coming next week.

Joel (10m 11s):

Alright. In the wormhole alert a category, a shout out to Uber, Lyft, Door Dash and others who are spending upwards of $180 million to defeat your favorite, California's prop 22, which puts giggers in the employment/employee category. Obviously the gig economy doesn't like that, the powers that be we'll see how that plays out. You didn't want to talk about it as a topic, but I'm giving it a shout out, otherwise we'll spend three hours on the topic.

Chad (10m 45s):

They should give that money to the actual people and just work shit out. I mean, it's not that fucking hard people. God, a big shout out to Adam Gordon for reviving the talent phallus video dude, that video provided much needed the laughs and fun for everyone. Remember the video? I think it was late last year where everybody was talking about that, the talent infinity loop and, and Adam was like, no, the funnel is the thing.

Chad (11m 16s):

And he made this, somebody made this funnel and it looked like a penis. And then he had a job seeker that he had like riding up and down the funnel and it looked like it was, you know? Yeah. So anyway, the, the video, we were sharing it again this week because Adam had some, some other writings and artistry that he wanted to share. And I said, guess what, Adam, it's not as good as this one.

Joel (11m 40s):

Yeah, frankly, I, myself in boycotting, Adam Gordon videos ever since that outfit that he used a week or so ago, that was, that was an embarrassment to humanity, that one. Yeah. All right.

Chad (11m 52s):

The socks!

Joel (11m 52s):

Shout to a White House Diversity Training, apparently our fearless leader, Donald Trump thinks that such training is anti-American and divisive. They're getting rid of it. Diversity training suck it at the White House. Shout out

Chad (12m 7s):

That's that that's an entire podcast by itself. Big shout out to John Gorman, former AD in the Clinton administration. He was just on the pod. It was called getting Wonky with Universal Healthcare. This dude multimillionaire knows his shit. I don't know how we got him on the podcast, but we had a chance to actually talk about healthcare, not just universal healthcare, but how it impacts our workforce. And that was a pretty fucking awesome podcast!

Joel (12m 39s):

Agreed. Shout out to Weddell's list of a hundred influencers of which you and I were both on, which automatically makes it a little suspect, but we certainly appreciate it. Your wife was on it as well. Did you guys do a little, a champagne toast for being on the list?

Chad (12m 55s):

Had a little power couple cuddle that's a that never hurts. It goes, it goes into my last shout out before we get into events. So we did this awesome podcast called Lead with Equity and it was with SYNDIO CEO Maria Colacurcio. Dude. I'm so fucking frustrated, I had a conversation on the socials about paid transparency with two females and they gave me a blue zillion reasons why it wouldn't work.

Chad (13m 31s):

Females, the ones who were getting impacted the most, the ones who are getting fucked the most. And hear me as a white dude, I'm trying to, I'm like, Hey, I think you should make what I make. And they're like, no, here are all the reasons why this won't work. Like really is this, is this the thing?

Joel (13m 48s):

I think what you've just admitted is owning a VR headset. And this is some sort of like VR surrealism program that you're plugged into your brain because I have a hard time believing that women are defending pay inequality, `

Chad (14m 4s):

Two of them, ganged up on me. I don't think this would work. This would kill morale. And it's like, well wait, what kill morale? This would boost. Right? Anyway.

Joel (14m 13s):

Well, okay. So

Chad (14m 15s):

Trying not to mansplain anything but defend and say, I believe you ma'am deserve as much as I make. And they both said you should probably just go away.

Joel (14m 29s):

Well, this is sort of anti-climactic after that. But my last Shout Out goes to Pete Janssen's. Pete has a podcast, a lifelong industry guy worked at Career Builder. I think way back in the day he wants us on their show called SAS Holes. Oh, how do we not go on a show called Sass Holes? And to sweeten the deal, Pete sent us both a little bourbon, which of course we always love so that we can get nice and lubricated for the show.

Joel (15m 1s):

So Pete, thanks, man. We'll talk to you soon.

Chad (15m 4s):

Excellent Events. You got me all excited talking about talking about bourbon. September 22nd at 2:00 PM get this little thing that we're going to be doing called a Friendly Discourse. Got me. My, my man, Jim Stroud and Patrick Neuron in today's incredibly divided world. My friend, we can't have the hard discussions without getting in a fight. That's sad. Yeah. Can't have civil discourse.

Chad (15m 34s):

So Jim and I who've been friends for 15 plus years. We're going to get on the mic. We're going to talk about diversity quotas, which that's what Jim calls it. I don't like that word that much. Patrick's going to be the, the referee. We're going to have our opening statements and we're going to jump right into to debate format and just to have a ball with it. I mean, we can't have some of the hardest conversations in the workplace today because people are afraid to have them.

Chad (16m 5s):

So we're hopefully going to lead and have some fun and do it as friends and disagree because we do disagree. You can go to just look for friendly discourse and register again.

Joel (16m 21s):

Yeah. Don't make Jim mad because if he kicks me off his black history email list because of you and I don't get updates on the real bootylicious, I'm going to be upset. So don't piss Jim off, alright?

Chad (16m 36s):

Great, great segue... Rep Fest One World, September 23rd, 24th and 25th. We are going to be on the leadership stage. No kidding. I'm going to have a no bullshit Future of Tech discussion with a couple of CEOs. You might just know a good man.

Joel (16m 56s):

Oh, love him.

Chad (16m 56s):

That's right, baby go to Click on the agenda in the upper right nav and register. We're going to be there, a bunch of people are going to be there. Great content, Jamie and crew throw an amazing show. And I got to say for all of the events that are out there, and I know how much you hate digital. I gotta say, these guys have worked their asses off on using and trying all these new platforms that are out there.

Joel (17m 28s):

But will there be a virtual DJ and a mixologist is my question?

Chad (17m 31s):

I got, I hope so.

Joel (17m 36s):

Who knows, who knows? Aman Brar and Angela Hood will be joining us in an intimate CEO conversation.

Chad (17m 39s):


Joel (17m 44s):

Which I'm pretty excited about. By the way that that reminds me, if you want Chad, and in your pocket, vibrating randomly, you need to text CC. That's the letter C and the letter C to 833-799-032. Again, that's the letters. C C (833) 799-0321 for text alerts. We promise no sexting from your favorite podcast. the Chad and Cheese.

Chad (18m 15s):

Got to love it. And if you love free stuff, go to Chadcheese/free and register for free stuff. Go do love it.

Joel (18m 25s):

Love it. Love it.

Chad (18m 25s):


Joel (18m 28s):

I've got, I've got a teaser real quick.

Chad (18m 28s):

Oh shit.

Joel (18m 28s):

Beer drop. A new giveaway. The ink has not dried yet on the agreement, but it looks like starting October we're going to be given out free beer to people sponsored by soon to be announced. And with that ... TOPICS!

Chad (18m 49s):

Somebody got cash.

Joel (18m 52s):

Or is going to the clearance rack for some of these companies. I don't know, man, Aman Brar is a, is a Savage when shopping for companies. So announced yesterday, literally we're talking to him on any joke that, "Oh, we have an acquisition announcement today" and we laughed it off.

Chad (19m 10s):

He was trolling us, is what he was doing.

Joel (19m 10s):

Which we shouldn't have done. But they've acquired Talentegy, that's a mouthful. It's talent with an EG Y The technology basically, okay, how they explained it as they analyze data on career sites and throughout a company's various talent acquisition technologies, we're talking career websites, ATSs, serums, et cetera. They analyze identity, candidate behaviors, content engagement, candidate exits an accurate applicant, applicant sources to better understand how candidates interact with the talent acquisition technologies the company deploys, basically trying to make sure your UI, your UX is badass and who doesn't love a good candidate experience more than my man Chad Sowash?

Chad (20m 2s):

Yeah, really a technology that tells us what we already know. Your site sucks. Your process sucks. Your experience sucks. Over 50% of candidates drop off and it's related to generally those three things. So if this is a big gift, if Jobvite can demonstrate where your site process and experience is broken and then provide an apply those fixes, that is a big win, especially for those people who give a shit about brand.

Chad (20m 37s):

And many of those companies that are out there today are kind of like backing away from brand because they have so many candidates coming their way and they don't think it matters, but it does, overall. So this is a great way to focus on those three things again, your site, process, and experience and get that shit all pulled together. I hope that Aman and team can really wrap this up and cause they have so many products, to be able to help fix this.

Chad (21m 7s):

I think this is probably the missing factor that they had. It's like, well, we can fix things, but we don't know what to fix now with Talentegy, hopefully they'll know what to fix.

Joel (21m 18s):

Yeah. And data, data, data. Nobody loves that more than our man Aman Brar. And this will be another nice bucket of data to throw into the whole system. So Aman said in a quote "the release with the addition of Talentegy, our customers will be able to monitor the candidate experience, identify points of friction and eliminate them in ways that significantly improve outcomes. We're excited to join forces in a way that will further underscore the value of talent acquisition to every organization."

Joel (21m 49s):

They're building a nice machine there at Jobvite, with a lot of pieces.

Chad (21m 53s):

Another funny thing is that there's a quote from their website Talentegy website. "Finally, there's a solution that provides candidate source tracking you can trust." In 2020, I mean, I was working with Recruits Soft and iSims 18 years ago doing this shit and we still haven't figured it out. This is one of the biggest issues we have in talent acquisition and HR. We know where the problems are, job descriptions, source tracking, but we don't fix that shit.

Chad (22m 25s):

Hopefully we can get a technology that can be hands off and we can get what we need.

Joel (22m 31s):

Yeah. You can't manage what you can't measure and all this data is going to help us measure it. And hopefully Jobvite can help us manage it.

Chad (22m 38s):

That's right. That's a bunch of Bullhorn.

Joel (22m 41s):

That's a bunch of bullhorn. That's not bad. Sowash. So a Bullhorn, also in the news this week, we did a shred on it, yesterday. Stone Point Capital will become the lead investor to power the next phase of the company's growth. Insight partners and GenStar who listeners might remember bought a majority share in 2017 will remain investors in the business, but Stone Point is look, looks like they're going to buy a majority stake from them.

Joel (23m 12s):

Stone Point according to the release "was attracted to Bullhorn on the strength of its longterm opportunity to serve the global staffing and recruiting industry. It's consistent revenue growth and its reputation for customer success." The Bullhorn management team will remain as is, thoughts? Initially, what caught me about this press release? Yeah, and I see a lot of press releases was like sort of the over highlighting of the recruiting business is fine.

Joel (23m 45s):

Stone Point came in and loved what they saw. Like every, it felt a little bit like that meme where the dog is in the room, that's burning and says, this is fine. Like there was a lot of emphasis on like, recruiting is great, we're going to be awesome. And that struck me as a little odd in this release. Otherwise private equity sucks. It's never good for anybody. I hope Bullhorn can weather the storm and still still be around in five years.

Chad (24m 14s):

Stone Point Capital has investments in Hire Right and Prism HR, but yet in the press release, it keeps saying over and over and over, they have sector experience in staffing and financial services. If somebody keeps saying it over and over, it's almost like they're trying to believe it themselves. And they want you to believe it as well. I just don't see that in doing somewhat of a shallow dive in researching Stone Point Capital. I think they had the cash, I think from Bullhorn standpoint, they're in the staffing community, right?

Chad (24m 47s):

So when everything starts to really scale back up, they're going to get a lot of business, because staffing is going to get a lot of business, because HR and talent acquisition will not be ready to scale. They won't. So they're going to get a lot of the business. So as soon as that we talk about it all the time, as soon as that lever is switched and it's time to start, you know, juicing the economy with talent again, it's going to be staffing companies who lead this, because talent acquisition will not be ready, period.

Chad (25m 17s):

So I see this as a smart investment, hoping that in the next six months that lever will be switched.

Joel (25m 26s):

Yeah. I think, I think the risk becomes the automation question because you know, what strikes me as funny when I talk to CEOs of automation businesses, is the biggest hurdle to selling their product is that recruiters think buying it will put them out of business. So recruiting tech is in this weird place where like it still exists, but how many people are going to use it? If automation is putting them out of business, but they're not buying the products because it will put them out of business, but companies are going to do it anyway?

Joel (25m 59s):

And like, there's this perfect storm of what's going to happen to businesses like Bullhorn and the future of recruiting and where that goes with automation. So a good investment maybe? A bad investment, maybe? Only time will tell, but I don't think it's going to be something that happens overnight. When the economy comes back, staffing will be a nice, healthy business to be in, but longterm, I have questions. I have questions.

Chad (26m 24s):

I have questions about Microsoft expanding LinkedIn Profile advertising.

Joel (26m 31s):

Microsoft has this product called LinkedIn. I don't know if you've heard about it? It's a thing! It's a thing. But they've been, they've been hoping to make more and more money off of advertising and more, more or less they've been getting their clock cleaned by, by Facebook, Instagram, and Google.

Chad (26m 40s):


Joel (26m 40s):

But, but Microsoft and LinkedIn have some interesting capabilities in any way. They launched, they launched certain LinkedIn profile targeting in 2018 in the U S it's it without getting too deeply into it. It it's just a matter of like better targeting engagement. Who's in market for certain products and being able to target those folks. But they've recently expanded the offering globally.

Joel (27m 12s):

And because we're so beloved in the world, we thought it was worth mentioning that the, the campaigns are now available in Canada, UK, Australia, France, and Germany. So if you've been on the fence about LinkedIn advertising and you're in those countries now might be a good time to go open up the, the pocket book and start testing to see how these capabilities can work for you, because the targeting is, is pretty good. It's pretty good and pretty unique to Microsoft and LinkedIn.

Chad (27m 41s):

Yeah. This seems fairly harmless until it gets a little money into it, a little evil into it because you're going to, I remember we talked about on the show, avocados being advertised on LinkedIn. I think, you know, once politics gets into this division, I mean, there are so many different ways this can happen, much like Facebook. I mean, don't think that LinkedIn is inside a bubble.

Chad (28m 14s):

There's the opportunity that yes, they want to go after this, this Facebook cash. I totally get it, but there's a lot. There's a lot of shit that will seep in as well.

Joel (28m 21s):

Yeah. And when they get their hands on Tik Tok, then the game really changes. Right?

Chad (28m 26s):

Nobody's buying Tik Tok.

Joel (28m 26s):

No one's buying Tik Tok. But anyway, I would like to see some, maybe get hub engagement in some of this ad platform. I think that would be kind of interesting from a recruitment standpoint, but until then check out Sovren kids

Sovren (29m 9s):

Sovren Parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry, the more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting, that's S O V R E We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren ~ Software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.

Joel (29m 11s):

And speaking of human, your favorite Amazon is in the news this week.

Chad (29m 16s):

Oh, Fuck fucking Jay Carney, fucking Jay Carney. How can you, how can you love a guy so much then D then just hate him? Son of a bitch. So Amazon currently has 33,000 job openings for corporate and tech roles. And it says it's a lot. It will share thousands of additional hourly roles in an Amazon's operations network soon. All of the new employees for these roles will be paid at least minimum wage of $15 per hour and up to 20 weeks of parental leave.

Chad (29m 52s):

That's all great stuff. Career day, get ready to give Mark your calendars career day, September 16th, that's open to anyone looking for a job. I mean, for the most part, Jay Carney actually said it in the video on These are going to be like seasonal positions. Some of those individuals will probably stay, the wage raises or the rage bumps will probably come back down around the April timeframe or before personally.

Chad (30m 23s):

I mean, it's one of those things where you love to see the opportunities that are there for people to actually make money, as long as it's safe. And this whole wage bump thing, I think is the biggest piece of shit in the world. Just give them that money for God's sakes. Jeff, as you sit on your mountain of fucking gold, but yeah, I mean, this is good news. The problem is I don't want to hit it real quick. And I want to hear what you have to say. Amazon and Walmart are becoming too big to fail, which means what happens when they do?

Joel (31m 1s):

Ooh, lots to unwrap here. So to answer your question, I think at some point, at some point Amazon will probably be broken up to a certain degree, right? Like there's no reason Amazon web services needs to be part of Amazon. And I could argue that Whole Foods probably doesn't need to be part of Amazon similar to how PayPal was spun off of eBay and became a much better value, more valuable company. I think Amazon will probably face similar headwinds.

Joel (31m 31s):

Walmart, Walmart's a little tougher, amazingly 30 years, hence Walmart went from, you know, they're killing mom and pops and they're the devil, to being, they're the only defense against Amazon taking over the world. So I don't see them having some of the same challenges as Amazon. I think Walmart needs to figure out a delivery, and I know they just launched like Walmart prime or plus or something, which is like a free delivery system.

Joel (32m 2s):

I think Target has had a really good run of it here in COVID. So Target on the retail side is competitive. I think even Best Buy has done really well with being able to deliver electronics and, and customer service better than some of the others. So I do think ultimately Amazon is gonna face some, some antitrust issues, but Amazon or the competition will probably be fine. I think that this further highlights, the fact that, you know, there are about five companies that have 25% of the value of the S&P 500.

Joel (32m 39s):

So you have Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google. So these guys are hugely valuable. They need to stay in the competitive game from talent. So they're paying people accordingly. There was also a story that we shared this week in regards to Netflix, who Reed Hastings talked about paying handsomely for the best talent. If you want to have the best company, FedEx is hiring a ton of people. So obviously mailing products and seasonal stuff is going to blow up, which they're all expecting.

Joel (33m 12s):

So all these companies that are too big are only gonna get bigger in the next few months and years. What I do think is interesting in terms of Reed Hasting's comment is, is paying people. Handsomely is a way to get the best people into the system. And part of me thinks when you talk about pay and equality and what we're doing, like what would a world be like if we paid teachers like we do Netflix and Amazon pay like their best people, what would happen if politicians were paid to a degree that the best and brightest from college and university wanted to be politicians, instead of a head of product at Amazon?

Joel (33m 56s):

Just curious. I think if, if we, if we put more resources and value behind these things that we think have a direct impact on racism, sexism, equality, et cetera, if we actually put money to those things, I think, I think we might be onto something. I think we could maybe look at Amazon and Netflix and others as a way to improve society. Is that too Pollyannish?

Chad (34m 21s):

Yeah. No. The thing is and I'm gonna point back to one of our podcasts with Robert Ruff, who said the exact same thing. If you have great a plus plus talent, they will easily outperform everybody else by 10 fold. That's why you pay them so well. He also said as a rich dude, he said, I need to pay more taxes. That's what it's going to come down to. If you want those individuals to actually make more money, everybody has to understand that this is more of a community scenario as opposed to an individual scenario and we have to pay more taxes.

Chad (34m 59s):

So if we want the Pollyannish kind of set up, we definitely can have capitalism to drive the markets, but we need socialistic guardrails to be able to ensure that people don't have shitty lives. We only get one life people. I mean, and whether you have a great life or not, there are people that out there that don't, how can they actually have healthcare? How can they have a living wage when 12% of our country is actually working poor?

Chad (35m 32s):

Right? So these, those are great questions. The thing is we gotta pay for that shit.

Joel (35m 38s):

I love your only one life to live. You've obviously been listening to seventies arena rock because it's on the brain. I just, I just think it, if we had a world where graduates from, from Kellogg and Duke and, and Rice and whatever, want to be teachers, instead of, you know, product manager for, for, you know, Google, the world we live in would be much different, I think. Anyway.

Chad (36m 3s):

Yeah, I think in, in this goes into our next story, you know, the links between automation and inequality so slightly, you know, slight amount of pivot here are the types of jobs cause we're talking about jobs. So this is from PSI Tech Daily, "Modern technology affects different workers in different ways. In some white collar jobs, designers, engineers, people become more productive with sophisticated software at their side. In other cases, forms of automation, from robots to phone answering systems have simply replaced factory workers, receptionists, and many other kinds of people."

Chad (36m 43s):

And a new study by MIT economist suggests that automation has a bigger impact on the, on the labor market. And he points at 1987, as the moment where our job losses to automation, stop being replaced by an equal number of similar workplace opportunities. So we've had these issues. I go back to the Reagan days back in trickle-down right?

Joel (37m 15s):


Chad (37m 15s):

That's when that's, when we started giving all the money to the rich and just praying that it trickled down, well, guess what fuckers it didn't. Then with jobs, we were praying that automation would also create new jobs, will it didn't at the rate that it was replacing jobs. As we talk about this Pollyannish type of way of living, we have to look at over the last 30, 40 years, what has actually happened to our society from a wage standpoint, from a living standpoint and those types of things and the jobs that are available versus what's not available.

Chad (37m 52s):

This is a hard discussion. And those designers and engineers who have the sophisticated software at their side, well, those laborers had sophisticated software at their side, in the eighties, automation at their side in the eighties to help them do their job and it eventually replaced them. So look at what's happening. This isn't something that, that is going to be changed unless we change it.

Joel (38m 22s):

MIT and other pretty good college. By the way, when you mentioned, when you mentioned 1987, I had a hard time, not just delving into daydreaming and my Ford escort driving the first year to the dollar movies and Taco Tuesdays at Two Pesos. Wow. Those were good days. Yeah. You know, the paper talks about not only just robotics and automation taking jobs, but also the pay inequality that automation brings. And it's sort of a double whammy to the poor, to the uneducated, to the lower, lower middle class folks.

Joel (38m 60s):

And those are, those are real issues that we face today. I love the fact that they've went back in history on the paper that they talked about, you know, concluding that across the U S from 1993 to 2007, each new robot replaced 3.3 jobs, salaries have not kept pace with automation as well as, as well as inflation. And those are real issues. It was a pretty dark paper, although they did talk a little bit about the industrial revolution and how certainly in England that although automation replaced many workers, new, new categories of companies and jobs and innovations occurred where jobs were were created.

Joel (39m 42s):

So as we've talked about on the show, will new industries be created at a rate equal to the amount of layoffs and job replacement that automation takes? I think that's really a really tough challenge. And, and Cindy Gallop, who, if you haven't listened to the interview, you should talks a lot about sort of empowering diverse folks to be entrepreneurs and to put money into those resources, to basically unlock the creativity of people to start new businesses and new ventures and create new things.

Joel (40m 16s):

And I think somewhere along those lines, there's a solution to getting us through this automation, you know, perfect storm to where we come out on the other side and maybe even healthier than when we started our venture out on the boat.

Chad (40m 33s):

So think, think about this real quick. As I was reading this, I thought about being a little kid and seeing the transition from cashiers at grocery stores, having to key things in to using the scanners, boop, boop. And then I looked at it and I'm like, you know, as a kid, I'm like, Oh, I could do that. Right. I am every fucking time I go to Kroger every time I go to Kroger, I do that. So here, here are a couple of things that I, that I was also thinking about, you know, we're going to have to do one of two major things.

Chad (41m 5s):

Number one, regulate what can be replaced. And actually from a regulatory standpoint, say, no, you cannot automate that. Or number two, tax automation to feed into a UBI system. We have to think about what the future looks like. And it doesn't look like the 1950s. And for all you people out there who think that somebody who doesn't have a college degree doesn't work hard and they don't deserve $20 an hour for us to be able to think that white collar is so much more superior.

Chad (41m 38s):

That's all bullshit. We have to, we have to look at our community because we need them. And they're smart fucking people. And they're hard workers.

Joel (41m 44s):

I quote, Melania Trump who says, be best Chad, be best.

Chad (41m 49s):

Oh my God,

JobAdX (42m 47s):

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Chad (42m 48s):

Speaking of Trump, let's go to space.

Joel (42m 48s):

The first time I saw this, I literally thought this was about Space Force.

Chad (42m 52s):

It's definitely piggy backing on the Space Force phenomenon. So Spaced Capitol, an organization committed to space and all the opportunity there in launched this week. So yeah, space needs a job board has been born. They, they are going all in on space, Space Capital, Space Angel Funding and Space Talent.

Chad (43m 27s):

So Chad Anderson, managing partner of Space Capital apparent brand of Space Talent says "we are seeing a surge in demand for nearly every major industry as businesses and government expand their use of space based technology, such as GPS, geospatial, intelligence, and communications, the current pace of innovation and incoming investor interest..." That's the big key there kids "indicates that the space economy will be one of the fastest growing sectors over the next decade,"

Chad (44m 4s):

yada yada yada. So there's cash here kids. And it seems like you can get on the job board. You have to request to have your jobs on it's. They saying it's free.

Joel (44m 13s):

"With over 500 companies across 40 countries, pace, Space Talent matches credible employers with top talent while providing insights into an ecosystem..." that's a big word, Chad, ... "with an ever expanding range of opportunities. The job board features the latest opportunities from the space And tech worlds, including 5,000 current openings, which range from launch technicians and engineering to software development, accounting, HR,..."

Joel (44m 43s):

Yes, HR we'll need some space ... "Marketing, senior management, and a lot more. If you're looking to take your career into the heavens, look no further than

Chad (44m 49s):

Time for me to launch into my hammock with a beer.

Joel (44m 49s):

We out

Chad (44m 59s):

We out.

OUTRO (45m 17s):

Thank you for listen to podcasts with Chad and Cheese. Brilliant! They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Anyhoo, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. We out.


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