Indeed Gonna Indeed

Just when Indeed looks like they've run out of spaghetti to throw at the wall, they did what this week? We're clearly not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy!

This week's topics are confusing at best.

We're talking end of days shit here people.

As always, your favorite AWARD WINNING podcast is powered by JobAdx, Sovren, and Jobvite.


Disability Solutions is your bridge to the disability community, delivering custom solutions in outreach, recruiting, talent management and compliance.

INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (20s):

Oh yeah. It's not a blog. It's a social media platform everybody. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast earthlings. I'm your cohost Joel "still banned on Facebook" Cheeseman

Chad (33s):

and I'm Chad "bear down" Sowash

Joel (36s):

And on this week show Indeed perplexes, Facebook workplace flexes and Base Camp more like face plant am I right? Buckle up.

Jobvite PROMO (48s):

You know, Steve, it feels like we keep getting pushed to hire more and better candidates with no more budget. Right? I wish there was a way to get better results from what we're doing. Actually, I heard in episode of Chad and Cheese about this framework from Jobvite. Oh yeah. Evolve. It's a technology agnostic framework to help TA teams get better results from their recruiting efforts. And we don't even have to be a Jobvite by customer to use it. I bet we would get better results if we orchestrated all of our efforts. You mean like a centralized process and all of our channels working together? For sure, whether it's job boards, social, or even texting with candidates. Let's do that.

Jobvite PROMO (1m 28s):

I'll send you the link. Cool. I'm going to finish watching this episode of Bridgerton. .

Chad (1m 34s):

You still haven't seen Bridgerton?

Joel (1m 36s):

I have not. Have you watched Chad yet?

Chad (1m 38s):

I have not.

Joel (1m 40s):

Well, there you go. You watch Chad and I'll watch an episode of Bridgerton.

Chad (1m 44s):

I'm not watching Bridgeton

Joel (1m 45s):

Right after I watched Downton Abbey, I thought it was Downtown Abbey forever. And I saw a billboard in New York city and I was like, Oh God, Downtown Abbey's hot. My wife goes it's Downton Abbey. But yes, watch Chad dammit. It's funny.

Chad (2m 3s):

Yeah. So I want to start off right out of the gate saying I've, I've always liked the Chicago Bears because of Walter Payton, because of the Fridge. Because I mean, when we grew up right in April.

Joel (2m 15s):

And the Shuffle.

Chad (2m 16s):

Oh yeah. Super bowl shuffle. I mean, all those things, Jim McMahon wearing the sunglasses. I mean,

Joel (2m 21s):

Ditka. SNL skits.

Chad (2m 23s):

Ditka. Yeah, but I have to say that a big shout out right out of the gate to the Chicago Bears during the NFL draft are our boy Justin Fields. I love this kid. He fell down the ranks. He's like the, probably the number one or number two pick athlete wise pick wise throughout the entire draft. He fell to number 11 due to information coming out that he had, he has epilepsy. Now, now this kid has been QB one since high school. I'm talking about nationwide QB one.

Joel (2m 59s):

Well, technically One B after Trevor Lawrence, but okay.

Chad (3m 3s):

In high school, he was one in college, maybe two, one or two, right depending on the team? And he fell down 11 and he's never had problems, quote/unquote "problems" with the epilepsy because he takes his meds and he's stays on his regimen. So, I mean, this is, this is a big thing. The kid has a disability, right? But he is a monster six, three, 225 pounds. Has a rocket for a fucking arm. Good on the Chicago bears. I can't wait.

Joel (3m 34s):

Oh the Bears. And now you have Rogers wanting out of Green Bay. Like this is turning into a football show, but like Roger's in Green Bay. And there's speculation that the Browns are trying to trade for Rogers. Like, I'm very confused by all this.

Chad (3m 49s):

Well, I, as we talk about Cleveland, let's talk about evergreen podcasts who won 4 communicator awards. That's right. Evergreen podcast out of Cleveland, Ctown baby. And guess what? Guess what?

Joel (4m 4s):

What Chad?

Chad (4m 5s):

We the Chad and Cheese show actually won an award of excellence around an individual episode in the business class. And you're going to love this. The episode was CareerBuilder Smokescreen. CareerBuilder is the gift that keeps on fucking giving.

Joel (4m 28s):

Yeah. How apropos that our first real award involves CareerBuilder and ripping them a new one. We have a resi. That's just good fun. But this is, this is like a real shit. This is like an iHeart radio ad. This is like real legitimate industry shit. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Do we win a cash reward for that or anything? Are we going to get a Rolls Royce, a gift from, from evergreen? Probably not.

Chad (4m 52s):

I'm sure they're going to hook us both up with Maseratis.

Joel (4m 55s):

Probably somebody who is getting something delivered is Jennifer Riley, our new, a whiskey recipient sponsored by Sovren. We sent out a bottle of whiskey. They get a Chad's choice and a Cheese's choice every month. Jennifer has gotten mine. I think yours is on the way. And we've scheduled a tasting with Robert Ruff of Sovren for next week.

Chad (5m 18s):

I messaged. I messaged her yesterday and said, congrats, you know? And she said, wait a minute. I have two bottles coming. Joel sent me one too. And I'm like, that's how we roll.

Joel (5m 28s):

That's how we roll baby two for, two for a shout out to Facebook for banning Trump. That's all I have to say about that. Or continuing the ban on Trump and the best headline of the week was I think it was vice. It said Donald Trump has launched his social media platform in quotes. And it's just a blog, which I thought was really, really funny.

Chad (5m 51s):

I think it was funny. He's he's been quoted in saying that press releases are more eloquent than tweets, but they're still full of shit and lies overall. But I mean, I think it's, it's hilarious. He loses this flame thrower being Twitter and Facebook and really social media. And you know, now he's writing shit on blogs.

Joel (6m 14s):

Donald Trump blogger. Love it. Love it. Shout out to our buddy, Matt Baxter at Wedge, they raised another round of funding. 1.6 million. Shout out to them. If you miss their firing squad episode, make sure you check that out.

Chad (6m 30s):

Yup. LinkedIn apparently has high Q in continued legal hell. Our judicial system is so fucked up. Whatever happened to speedy LinkedIn is just pretty much grinding. Hi, Q via time. And I'm sure attorney fees at this point.

Joel (6m 47s):

Chad, we have the best juror judicial system that money can buy. And I don't want to hear another word about it.

Chad (6m 53s):

If you've got the money, you got the best justice. That's exactly right.

Joel (6m 58s):

Just ask OJ.

Chad (6m 59s):

Shout out to listener Michelle Raymond from My G network. Have you heard of this platform?

Joel (7m 5s):

My G-spot what?

Chad (7m 7s):

Yeah, pretty close. Now it's called my G work, which it's it's a LinkedIn network. It's set up just like LinkedIn, but it is for the LGBTQ community and you it's obviously more anonymous, but we're thinking about having her on during pride month to do some educational interviews. We've got a couple of dumb white dudes here, and I think it'd be good to have her on and help us with pronouns and shit like that. Right.

Joel (7m 37s):

We're doing like a pride month series. What what's going on there?

Chad (7m 41s):

Yeah. Why not? I mean, did you just do a series with again, two dudes who really need educated? And I think there are many people that are out there today that have the same questions. It's like, I don't understand the pronouns. I don't get this. What are these acronyms? And et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's like, you know what, let's go ahead and have the conversations and have those hard conversations out in the open and have people, you know, to answer them and educate us. And hopefully again, some of our listeners will get educated too.

Joel (8m 11s):

Yeah. So by the way, goddammit. So Joe Lockwood shout out and apologies. Speaking of people who should be on our June series, if we're doing that. So sending shit to Europe is always a crap shoot anyway. So I sent Joe a t-shirt and who knows when I sent it? I could probably look at the postmark. It was probably six months ago. And the fucker came back this week. No, it had a rip in it. So he couldn't see the whole address. So I've got to go back to the whole drawing board and send it back to Joe. So Joe apologies if you're listening, but God damn it sending shit to Europe is like sending it to Mars. Like it's a total crap shoot takes forever.

Joel (8m 53s):

Anyway. So shout out to Joe, we'll get that shirt back in the mail ASAP and I'll drop another 30 bucks to send it to you. However much it fucking awesome.

Chad (9m 1s):

Yeah. I think the US postal system after that last fucking idiot that was in charge. I think we're still trying to rebuild it after that.

Joel (9m 10s):

When is Elon Musk's gonna fix the mail? God damn it.

Chad (9m 13s):

That's a good call.

Joel (9m 13s):

Screw this Martian mission shit. Fix the mail.

Chad (9m 16s):

Very good call. We also, also not an award, but we love lists. We're a sucker for lists. We made Fetcher's six must listen to podcasts for recruiters. Not too shabby.

Joel (9m 31s):

You read it. It's pretty spot on because we're, I think we're right above. What's his name? Brett guy. Matt Alder time.

Chad (9m 40s):

Matt Alder.

Joel (9m 41s):

So yeah, so we're above Alder and ours is like, they break shit and piss people off and, and machine gun start-ups and then his is like, it's a great list in over a cup of coffee or tea. And I'm like, wow, they kind of got that right. So way to go Fetcher. Very nice. And I'll get Alder right. Eventually.

Chad (9m 60s):

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure you will. Not so much free, free, free. I sound like that one commercial. We're talking about free t-shirts from Emissary. Free t-shirts from Emissary. Free beer from AdZuna. And free bourbon, that's two bottles of bourbon, from Sovren. And where do you go, Joel?

Joel (10m 19s):

You got to go to Put in your info, for a chance to win all that shit. Folks.

Chad (10m 27s):

Love it. Love it. Topics? Topics!

Joel (10m 34s):

All right. What the fuck is going on in Indeed? You got some scoop.

Chad (10m 39s):

So yeah, I actually received several calls this week. Texts, DMS, all this other fun stuff. And it seems that Indeed's fucking shit up again. Does that surprise anyone? No, no.

Joel (10m 50s):

That's weird.

Chad (10m 51s):

During a time when hiring companies cannot get enough candidate traffic to their jobs, Indeed drops another hammer on gig employers. That for most of our listeners who are out there, who don't know, we are at the point where there's more budget out there for performance driven ads than can be spent because candidates are not clicking on the jobs. They're not applying, you know, the cost per application, the cost per click, those types of things. So the budgets are huge and they're not being spent. That's setting the table for on Monday, Indeed kicked gig like job postings from companies like Uber, Lyft, Door Dash, Instacart, and all of the other gig like listings off their general job search and over to and some hiring companies.

Chad (11m 48s):

Some of these companies actually saw a 90% drop in traffic and remember, they weren't getting the volume they needed in the first place. Demand is high. And you got to question the timing. I mean, making the switch, you got to question, but the timing on this, this is pretty fucked up.

Joel (12m 9s):

Yeah. So, a few things about this. I wanna underscore that you said these folks saw at 90% decrease in traffic, that's gonna really hurt the bottom line for them. The other thing I want to highlight that you said is that there's more budget now than can be spent. There's more budget than can be spent. Those are two serious like points to highlight. And those are maybe they're on podcasts in and of themselves. But when I, so you dropped this on, on us yesterday, I think. And it was sorta cryptic. So I've been trying to like kind of digest what's going on. And either Indeed is smarter than everyone else in the room, or they don't know what the fuck they're doing at all.

Joel (12m 53s):

And I don't know which way I'm leaning, other than they don't know what the hell they're doing because we've seen in the last year plus, they throw a ton of spaghetti at the wall.

Chad (13m 2s):


Joel (13m 2s):

They've shut shit down. They've opened up shit. They've renamed shit. They've done all kinds of crazy shit. And this is the latest of crazy shit that they've done, right? Uber, Lyft, Door Dash, these are some of the few like of the people that are spending tons of money and have money to spend it's these guys and to fuck them over makes no sense to me at all. Other than we can't provide them the click, so let's get them a more, less clicks. So where are they going to go there? Our competition while we've been busy buying up the competition, Google doesn't charge yet for traffic. So that's money that could be spent there that isn't, by the way, Google needs to do Google needs launch a pay-per-click solution, a stat because people have money to spend on them and will do that.

Joel (13m 46s):

So I'm a little confused by the whole thing. The phenomenon of nobody's looking, searching for jobs anymore. No one's clicking on jobs. No one's applying to jobs. And that goes back to what we talked about a few weeks ago and continues to be an issue with like, nobody wants to work. People want to buy Bitcoin and play, play, play X-Box and get government checks and stimis, that's going to run out eventually, but we also have some systemic issues, which we're also going to talk about on the show where warehouse workers and a lack of supply there. And what are we gonna do about that? It's a trillion dollar problem that we're looking down the barrel of. So we've got some real workforce issues in our country and Indeed is just, I guess, one side note with what's going on.

Joel (14m 32s):

But I just, I don't think they know what the hell they're doing over there. They're just throwing shit at the wall, hoping that it sticks.

Chad (14m 38s):

So Indeed is once again, crying user experience as the reason for this change, because they've been flooded with gig jobs. It's amazing. This makes Indeed's tech team look a bunch of fucking idiots, just inept. I mean, seriously, if you think about it, your search tech isn't basic enough to provide users with relevant content. Indeed is basically saying we have a shitty product and our tech team sucks with this whole change. I mean, I don't know how else anyone can see this. We're talking about providing relevant content. You're saying that you have too many jobs from this segment and it's like, what's pretty fucking simple.

Chad (15m 22s):

If you know how to do search, you should be able to filter in and filter out anything that's relevant or not relevant. So yes, the timing is horrible. This whole user experience angle is bullshit and yes, they do have shitty tech. We get that. But what is the play here? Do they see that the gig economy is growing so rapidly and not to mention with prop 22 and all this other crazy shit that they want to split things off to create two different types of sites so that they can try to monetize even more. I don't understand the play other than a long-term play. And this is just really shitty timing.

Joel (16m 2s):

You know, you bring out a really good point in regards to customization and in a world where, you know, Tik TOK knows exactly what I want to watch. And what you watch is totally different than what I watch. The job board classified industry has really dropped the ball on customization of search results. And for the most part, I'm guessing 60 to 70% of Indeed's users are logged in when they're using Indeed because they kind of force you to do it. They encourage you to do it. If you get job alerts, like they push you to become a member. And I'm sure a lot of, at least 50, 60, 70% are.

Joel (16m 43s):

So if you know, someone's logged in, you know, their search behavior, you know what they're clicking on, you know what they're looking at for long periods of time and you ultimately know what kind of jobs that they're looking for that they want. So they shouldn't actually even have to search after a certain period when they go to Indeed, you should know that when John DOE goes to Indeed and he's logged in, or she's logged in that, this is what they want to see. And you show that to them automatically. We are way far away from that in terms of job search and classifieds. But you great, you bring up a great point that if their tech is so good, they should know that this person never looks at Uber jobs. They never apply to Uber jobs. So we're not going to show them Uber jobs.

Joel (17m 24s):

We're gonna stop showing them Uber jobs and show them the jobs that they do want and that they do click on and apply to. And they haven't done that. And if anyone should be doing and it's Indeed.

Chad (17m 32s):

Yep. Now we've talked about how shitty their product has been from a search standpoint, in a delivery of content, right. In just emails, right? You subscribe to emails and you get a bunch of shit in your email, right.

Joel (17m 47s):

Glassdoor's just as bad. Glassdoor's worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Drop the ball

Chad (17m 51s):

On one company who seems to have this down. And I don't know, maybe it's a privacy thing or not, is Facebook.

Joel (17m 59s):

Yeah. So, so Facebook workplace, God bless them. They just keep chugging on organically. So Facebook's enterprise platform Workplace, this is their Slack competitor, their teams competitor, claims 7 million paying subscribers. That's quite a bit of paying subscribers. This is up from 5 million in may of last year. It comes to the company, announces new features, including integrations with Microsoft 365 and Google calendar. By way of comparison and this is a little bit sobering, but Microsoft claims more than 145 million daily active users for teams and Slack past 12 million daily active users in September of 2019, which has been awhile but it's also the last time they reported that statistic.

Chad (18m 44s):

A representative told CNBC quote, you could take my mom and put her on Workplace and she would understand how to use it immediately, which is how they're sort of saying that they're different from the rest of the guys. Other new features include a new live Q and A experience and a number of new diversity features, including different skin tones for emoji and a feature that allows users to show their colleagues the correct way to pronounce their name, which I think is kind of cool. Your thoughts? I don't know how Enterprise businesses can trust Facebook.

Joel (19m 18s):

This is a, this is an SMB play for sure.

Chad (19m 20s):

No they call it Enterprise.

Joel (19m 22s):

Yeah, that's true

Chad (19m 23s):

They call it Enterprise. So I see this as an amazing SMB play. No question I agree with that, but they are pressing this Enterprise piece hard. So I see small businesses using the platform to gain local awareness and business, which I think Facebook has done really well on the locals side of the house. But I don't see how you use this as an Enterprise edition for big companies and they talk about Spotify and they do have some fairly big logos with some high employee count. From my standpoint, I want to do my social on Facebook, but if my businesses on Facebook too, can I ever really get away from it?

Joel (20m 5s):

Yeah, I'm shocked that they have 7 million paying subscribers, if they had had 7 million users that were using a free version of, I could believe that, but 7 million paying customers when you have Microsoft and you have Slack now on by Salesforce, you have two really competent players. So yeah, to me, this is simply small, small business play. How much of a slice they're going to get out of Enterprise? I don't know, but you know, that if Facebook continues to iterate and improve this product so they must believe in it. Or at least the overall vision. It is less than 1% of their revenue as a company.

Joel (20m 46s):

So it's not really moving the needle in any significant way. So I don't know if it's a bigger piece of where they're going. You know, if they're going to become more of a enterprise software competitor, are they going to have spreadsheets on Facebook and did PowerPoint on Facebook? I don't know, but it seems like it must be something, part of a bigger vision because they keep iterating and it's not a huge part and they have significant competition. That's fun to watch.

Chad (21m 13s):

And I think if they did stick with SMB, they could get a pretty big swath of those businesses. I mean, because again, you know, if mom can use it right, the owner who also has a Facebook account can use, you know, workplace. So I think there's a good transition there from an SMB standpoint, but as an enterprise and working for enterprise organizations before, there's no way in hell, I would think about trusting Facebook with any of my information at all. No fucking way.

Joel (21m 46s):

Yeah, I'd agree. But if you're a small business, you can post your jobs on Facebook. You can market on Facebook. Oh, you got your workforce chat going on on Facebook. That makes a lot of sense. But yeah, Enterprise, there must be a bigger picture. Zuckerberg you mad genius.

Chad (22m 2s):

Or they're just throwing spaghetti at the wall like Indeed.

Joel (22m 8s):

That could be the case. Let's take a break.


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Joel (23m 10s):

Make up your mind, corporate America. Open or closed, which is it?

Chad (23m 14s):

Employees just want to know what the fuck is going on.

Joel (23m 18s):

That's right. That's right. So while tech firms such as Microsoft and Twitter have announced plans to allow employees to work from home permanently, Google has resisted going fully remote and employees said there's an increasing sense of frustration among a fraction of the work force. Some threatening to quit. As a result, Google is relaxing its remote work rules for it's roughly 140,000 employees. And also probably the strongest union in the world. Expanding options around how, where, and whether staff return to the office. CEO, Sundar Pichai outlined the new plans and a note to staff this week saying that from September, he expects about 6% of Google staff will work in the office a few days a week while 20 plus 20% will be able to relocate to other company sites in other cities.

Joel (24m 6s):

And the remaining 20% can apply to permanently work from home. Google's previous plan required all staff to come into the office three days a week, Google workers will be allowed to work for four weeks per year from a location other than their assigned office. Is this a fair compromise, or is Google going to have to give up a little more power?

Chad (24m 27s):

I think it's interesting that we know how productive our teams can be remote. Right? We know that.

Joel (24m 35s):

Yeah. By the way, Google's crushing it.

Chad (24m 39s):

And yet we're having problems with this. Right. And I just, you know, I said it, I said it already, employees want to know what the fuck is going on. The anxiety of working from home right out of the gate during COVID was hard, but then they got into a productive routine. And now that is being overshadowed by the anxiety of what work is going to look like within the next month or two months or three months, because these employers, they can't get their shit together. And I think it's just amazing that we demonstrate it. When I say we employees demonstrate just how much autonomy we can take and stay productive. Not everybody can, and it's not for everybody.

Chad (25m 20s):

I get it. But to be able to allow the autonomy in some cases, I think is incredibly smart. So Google is dancing and then we have Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase. They're sticking to a hard and fast rule. We want everybody back in the office. Now, I'm not a big fan of that, although that cuts down on anxiety a lot. And if I don't like that idea as being employed by them, I know now I can start looking for another job.

Joel (25m 50s):

Yeah. And I think, kind of competition for talent is driving this. And when you look at Google employees, gee, they're kind of smart and they're kind of marketable. And they're also able to get a new job tomorrow if they want. So this 140,000 strong group of employees they have a lot of pull with what the company does. And so this sort of compromise that Sindar is forced to make, I think is, is driven by the power of the employees. Which is in contrast to what we're seeing with Amazon. But knowledge workers I think are on a road to being at home whenever they want, working however they wish otherwise they're gonna vote with their feet and go work for somebody else and companies are gonna have to deal with that.

Joel (26m 34s):

It's also, you know, tech companies were the first ones to have casual Friday. Remember when that was like a real progressive power move. So, so culturally they're sort of, they're sort of used to this progressive stance. Big banks, as you mentioned and I think other companies and industries are struggling with it. So Goldman Sachs has laid the groundwork for its return to the office. CEO, David Solomon, informed employees in the U S and the UK that they should be in a position to return to the office by June 14th and June 21st, respectively, this was reported by CNN. The move is the first for a major US bank. Meanwhile, Vanguard is planning a hybrid model for its staff and Citadel aims to have most of its us staff in offices by June 1st, JP Morgan Chase also recently announced plans to have half of its employees back in the office, by July.