New Grad Hiring during a Crisis?
Protect Your Brand is a Limited Podcast Series. The Chad & Cheese call on a real cast of experienced characters including Gerry Crispin, Principal & Co-Founder of CareerXRoads, Deb Andrychuk, VP of Client Services with Shaker Recruitment Marketing and Steven Rothberg, Founder and President of CollegeRecruiter.com to answer the questions employers should be asking themselves.
Lead question: How are employers protecting their brands and talent pipelines by adapting their new grad hiring programs?
Support provided by our friends at Shaker Recruitment Marketing - COVID might keep us at home but it won't keep us quiet!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Hide your kids lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right it hurts where complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast. <Music>
Hey, I'm Joel Cheesman of the Chad and Cheese podcast and I'm joined by my partner in crime, Chad Sowash.
Also joined by Gerry Crispin recruiting soothsayer and sightseer. I threw that in there and founder of career crossroads, Debra Andrychuk, industry veteran and VP of recruitment branding goodness, over at Shaker recruitment marketing and proud sponsor of the Chad and Cheese podcast, travel sponsor, and last and least Steven Rothberg, president and founder College Recruiter. Welcome everybody to the Chad and Cheese podcast. HR's most dangerous podcasts by the way.
Joel (1m 8s):
Well, let's dive right into it. We're going to talk about grad hiring on this episode. So I'm going to send this out to Deb, Deb, this one's for you. How are employers protecting their brands and talent pipelines by adapting their new grad hiring programs?
Deb (1m 26s):
So we are seeing, I'm actually really excited to see this, that companies are very keyed into the fact that they know they need to do the right thing. They are to Gerry's point in an earlier session, we were talking about how, you know, if you are making offers, you can't resend. The majority of our clients are keeping the folks that they have made offers to in the internship program, same thing. And then they're just pivoting and they're making sure that they're able to provide, you know, meaningful content via online.
Deb (2m 4s):
I think that's the toughest thing that these clients have had to do is, you know, take whatever they typically train for and turn that into online curriculum. That's not simple to do. And not only that, but we all know that, you know, the whole zoom fatigue, it's a real thing, trying to really pay attention every minute because you know, people can see you. You're, you're trying to look for the, the verbal and facial, all those cues that you, you don't get when you're not sitting across the table from someone, all of that really taxes you as an individual.
Deb (2m 42s):
So I think, you know, they're trying to, to throw in some fun, and then they're also trying to make sure that in lieu of, you know, the water cooler talk and being able to hang out with people that you would have worked with, like right next to them, they're trying to make sure you get some semblance of that And so they're doing the HR happy hours, but we're also seeing where there are executive sponsors who are spending, you know, an hour on, on, you know, video chat with new grads or with interns and, and having those conversations and keeping it a little lighthearted, making sure that it's a little more casual because they really want to try to humanize the entire experience instead of feeling, you know, very robotic
Joel (3m 30s):
Chad, wasn't you that sent the link of companies hiring magicians and comedians to come in on zoom, zoom calls, <inaudible>
Chad (3m 39s):
Oh yeah, and there is goat to meeting as well, where they actually bring live animals, llamas. And yeah, I mean, it's a thing. It's, it's the whole entertainment section.
Gerry (3m 52s):
We we've all seen each other's dogs and cats far more than we want to also can always see more dogs, cats, not so much
Joel (4m 1s):
On a serious note. Chad, you and I interviewed a Chipotle a few weeks ago and they're making some really interesting inroads with mental health benefits, as well as expanding healthcare, protecting workers, you know, serving food much better, creating six, you know, six feet distances between customers. So we're really seeing a lot of different variances of how companies are, are reacting to make sure that internships and any employee Bill's safe. You guys seeing anything else from companies?
Gerry (4m 35s):
All over the map, the thing that I try and do, which I can't do very well is, is to put myself in the shoes of some of these kids who are graduating. And, and it's hard. It's been a while for, for actually everybody on this call and 50 years for me. So, but I, but I do happen to go back and talk to kids at college on a regular basis. And most of them are truly invested in this full time job.
Gerry (5m 5s):
They're invested from an ego point of view invested maybe in a year or two years as an intern, they've gotten to know and build a relationship with kids who are also going to that company. Their parents are proud of them. You know, they finally are getting them out of the house, maybe. So there's this incredible kind of activity that's going on and now we have COVID. And so the whole issue is I'm frightened. What does that mean for me? And I think we talked about the fact that communication now becomes really critical the way in which we now are communicating with those students about what our thinking is.
Gerry (5m 44s):
Even before we make the decision as to whether or not we're going to be sinned or not rescinded, et cetera. So they get excited when we've decided not to rescind, but maybe it's going to be a delay, a delay for two or months, maybe a delay for even longer. Maybe there are a reduced issues in terms of how I'm going to be onboarded and the kind of projects I'm going to be involved in. And that might impact my pay. Or maybe I can show that there's some benefits that I can give you while I'm delaying companies or coming up with more and more innovative ways.
Gerry (6m 20s):
The key is that the company cares about doing this well more so than I've ever seen. You know, I remember the most recent 2008 a variation in which lots of companies were automatically rescinding their offers. And then suddenly the media was giving them such a hard time. They suddenly decided, well, maybe we don't resend everything, or maybe we just delay, or maybe we do something else. So they were, they were playing catch up because they made bad decisions too quickly.
Gerry (6m 53s):
Now they're making better decisions, but it takes time to make those decisions. And what they're doing when they're doing it really well is keeping the kids involved in the course of that timeframe. And, and the, the best of them are even engaging the parents of those kids as well.
Joel (7m 15s):
One of the ideas that sort of gaining traction is this idea of hazard pay. And I know we talked about internship pay in a previous episode, but it seems to me if you're in an essential worker and that's not just healthcare, but any, any, any job where you're in harms way of this virus that at least companies, government, at least government starting to talk about hazard pay, and some companies are doing it. Is that something you see getting traction? Is it something that you're seeing in the marketplace? What are your general thoughts on hazard pay for internships?
Gerry (7m 42s):
I don't, I don't see that happening too much for interns and or early hires. I see it much more in the hourly apprenticeship kind of thing. So if you're, if you're a laundry worker in a hospital, I gotta tell ya, I would be looking for some serious hazard pay. And, and I'm aware of the fact that almost half of all the people who are offered that job don't show up and, and a good portion of those who do show up, leave on the first day, because, because that's not going to, you know, you need that kind of hazard pay for those kinds of things and, and the pay and the job and the future of somebody in that job is way different than that of an intern who can, or early hire, who proves himself or herself and, and the experience that they have and the skills they're going to be able to develop and fine tune in a crisis situation are probably gonna serve them really well from a successful point of view for the rest of their lives.
Steven (8m 50s):
Yeah. Yeah. So one thing that, that these 21, 22 year old grads are going through is that a lot of them feel like punching bags that at some of their earliest memories were the start were, are this country going to war? And you know, that just sort of, as they became aware that the world was more than just them in their mommy and daddy, we were already at war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Steven (9m 25s):
So they've, they've never known a time when we weren't at war another early memory for these 21/22 year olds is the 2008, 2009 recession, where a lot of them saw their, their parents or maybe older siblings, cousins, uncles, aunts, lose their jobs. Some of them becoming homeless or having to leave their homes being foreclosed on. And now 12 years later, or 11 years later, you know, here we are again. And it's sort of feels to a lot of them, like they've lurched from one massive crisis to another, I'm a gen Xer we didn't have any of this shit, you know, bullshit.
Steven (10m 5s):
You know, we just had, what are you talking about? We had some, but we, we didn't have anything like 08 recessions
Gerry (10m 17s):
Steven (10m 18s):
that wasn't an existential threat facing all of society and turning it upside down in the course of weeks or months. It just, it, it just paled in comparison. Yeah. We had the Soviets and we knew that we could be incinerated in a moment, but that was something that we lived with for our whole lives
Chad (10m 39s):
Were you in Canada at the time, Is that what the problem is?
Gerry (10m 42s):
I think it's, I think that's the answer. Yeah.
Steven (10m 45s):
And it's true. I mean, they're there, but you know, Canadians Canadian certainly would, would, would understand that if, if the U S were to get nuked, then Canada's, but this generation has gone from one massive crisis to another far more than the generations before it millennials or gen Xers. And another thing that I think we need to keep in mind is that a typical 21, 22 year old would rather be just about anywhere else than a spare bedroom in their parent's home.
Steven (11m 20s):
And when they are completing their senior year, have to leave school, probably go back to their parent's home, maybe complete their classes online, don't have a graduation, and then can't go to their job of choice in May or June, and maybe have that deferred, you know, like when I graduated. And so if my employer had said, Hey, we want to defer your start date. By three months, I would have been doing cartwheels. If I was physically ever capable of doing them, that would have been great shit.
Steven (11m 54s):
Yeah. I'll Go travel for three months. I'll do this. I'll do that now. What are they going to do? Watch Netflix. I think that they're impatient to start. They want to get there the rest of their life underway. They don't remember a time when they weren't in school. And now they're on the cusp of joining the real world.
Joel (12m 12s):
The great Billy Joel, who said the world's been burning since the world's been turning Deb. I got a question for you on the, the marketing side and branding side of the house. Are you seeing companies want to build a brand, a profile page career site with, you know, masks and how we're protecting our employees and gloves. Stephen, are you seeing profile pages? And if we're not, should we, and when will we, if we do?
Deb (12m 37s):
That's a great question. So we actually are getting requests from clients to go in and, you know, update their pages, LinkedIn profiles, Glassdoor profiles, help them build out, you know, quick turn micro-sites that are COVID related. So we just did one for Lowe's that launched. I think we did it in less than a week. No pressure there at all, but I think, I think what's been really cool to see is that these bigger clients, they really get that they need to address it in some, some fashion.
Deb (13m 16s):
Like it doesn't have to be perfect, but you need to have the messaging out there. And I think too, the other thing is that I've loved the community spirit and the way that these companies have come together, where if you are a company that's furloughing and laying off, like one of our clients has Hilton and, you know, they laid off thousands and thousands of people. And I thought it was so cool that they partnered immediately, you know, with some of the essential employers that are out there.
Deb (13m 46s):
They're, they're partnered up with CVS, for example, and also Lowes. And, and I think just the fact that these companies are willing to work together. I don't know to me, that's that smells of change. And that makes me happy. We should have we, I agree. It is a big deal. And we talked about it on the show Hilton and what CVS actually did the whole experience for somebody obviously losing their job in a crisis in most of these individuals that that's a need income, right?
Chad (14m 24s):
And they're going to remember that Hilton helped them out, but they're also going to remember that CVS welcome them with open arms. You go to that landing page, and there's a, there's a letter from Jeff Lackey saying, welcome. You know, we need people like you to be able to operate. Why has it taken us to be in a crisis to be able to work like this because, AT&T can't hire all the people that are that actually going Into their applicant tracking system, they go into a black hole or wherever they go, why couldn't they work with Verizon to be able to ensure that these, these people are getting placed.
Chad (15m 2s):
I understand talent and top talent, but Holy hell, you have all this overflow of people. We have to wait to we're in a clock crisis before we can work with other companies. I don't know,
Joel (15m 14s):
Would it stick? And would that stick? Cause my guess is once things go back to fair normalcy that we go back to being the American way and sticking it to the competition.
Gerry (15m 24s):
Well, it's, I think it's one thing for Hilton to refer its employees to CVS, first of all, over the top, awesome. For both organizations doing the right thing for their organizations, doing the right thing for their people. Chad, you said that, you know, those, those employees will always remember that they will always, always remember that. Plus the 200 people that they know well, each of those, I mean that story of how Hilton took care of me and how CVS welcomed me with open arms that is going to be retold over and over and over again, that's going to be Thanksgiving dinner conversation for years.
Gerry (16m 8s):
And I mean, whoever it was that came up with that idea, you know, they should have a monument to, to, to that person was just, but to say that Verizon should partner with AT&T a direct competitor. That seems a step too far to me. First of all,
Joel (16m 29s):
If the Canadian says that it's
Gerry (16m 33s):
Years ago, by the way, don't forget, I moved to the U S you know, so, you know, but, but if you're, you know, if the candidate applied to AT&T and for whatever reason was, was rejected, they're going to have a Scarlet letter on them. When they go over to Verizon, Verizon is going to be like, Oh, well, this they're not good enough to work for AT&T are they good enough? Why, why would we want to hear that? And that's probably not fair, but I think it's just going to be part of human nature that we don't want the second hand goods.
Gerry (17m 4s):
I think it's really different where if you were a guest services manager and now you're going to be going over to a CVS and you're going to be the store manager, they're not competing. They're very complimentary. Well, there's also one is furloughing. And wants them back, and CVS is surge hiring and will not need them beyond surge. So, so lackeys, happy to tell, you know, Sarah, that I will walk them back when, when the duration is up and in those kinds of deals.
Gerry (17m 40s):
And those, those two really made the best deal in pardon, because Lackey was able to break down a lot of stuff in between. But the fact is Hilton has nearly 50 Partners that they go direct with now. And CVS has 70 partners. So the, the, you know, the reality is there's a lot of job boards that aren't making any money because they're not, there's no in between. Right.
Chad (18m 5s):
There's a lot, Gerry,
Gerry (18m 6s):
there's a lot of things, stuff in between that isn't in between, right?
Steven (18m 12s):
You say that Gerry, because, because we talk to some of the companies that were surge hiring before, some of this stuff became public and the answer was sort of vaguely we're not going to need help. And it's like, what are you smoking? You just, announced that you need to hire 50,000 people yesterday and you don't need help? It's like, okay, you don't need help from us. Fair enough. You've got another good source. It turns out they did, they had, you know, a hotel partner, a restaurant chain or, or whatever.
Steven (18m 45s):
Gerry (18m 45s):
they had each of these heads of TA yeah. Been around for 20 plus years and fundament and fundamentally they know each other at this point. And so when, when somebody suddenly realizes that in three or four days, I've got a, I've got to let go how many people, 50,000, a hundred thousand or whatever, Holy crap, I need a whole different paradigm for how I'm going to operate.
Gerry (19m 16s):
You know, what they do, they call, they call people who are like them Marriott talks to Hilton talks to whatever. And that's how that gets passed on. And that's how it happened this time.
Steven (19m 31s):
Well, and this framework doesn't just have, have to happen in crisis because this ebb and flows happens all the time, right?
Gerry (19m 39s):
Not to that level, but,
Steven (19m 41s):
But it still happens. And whether it's trickling from here to there or not, it it's, it's a much better experience for anybody who's, who's being, you know, furloughed or they've got a downsize or whatever it is for that brand. And then being reintroduced to, to another brand, because we also have to remember that these individuals and their, their 200 closest friends buy stuff. Right, right. Are they going to go to Walgreens or they're going to go to CVS? Are they going to go to Hilton or are they going to go to, you know, the next competitor that's incredibly important for any of those brands
Gerry (20m 17s):
Which Is why I absolutely believe that the job board model has to, has to elevate itself in being able to offer more than simply the transaction, but also the, something more about the relationship movement. And I don't know what that is. I think that's up to, up to them to figure out, but it's going to have to take a new turn. I think there will be a pivot in some of the technology tools out because they recognize That we've got to do more than simply have a job that somebody can have that a hundred thousand people can apply to.
Gerry (20m 56s):
And one person gets, it's not going to be sufficient in the future
Steven (21m 1s):
to be so lucky to get a hundred thousand people to apply not maybe, but, but you know, the, the, the new, the, the communication, the marketing for an organization, like a Hilton that did such a fantastic job in taking care of its people. When they go on campus next fall, or recruit virtually whatever it is that they're going to do, it should try to reach those seniors. They're going to have a compelling story to tell, Oh yeah.
Steven (21m 32s):
A lot of employers will say, we take care of our people in good times and in bad. Yup. Hilton will actually be able to prove it they'll have a video of full virtual experience. I've happily,
Gerry (21m 46s):
you almost said virtual reality.
Steven (21m 49s):
Okay. I was, yeah. I was trying to pull back so you wouldn't get too excited.
Joel (21m 52s):
Deb, last one from me, we know that our brand is a lot of the times outside of what we say our brand is, and I'm imagining that Glassdoor and indeed reviews and whatnot are lighting up. So to speak of companies that are doing poorly with coronavirus and taking care of their employees and things like that. I know you guys track that to some degree. Are you seeing that, and what advice would you give a company who's maybe seeing a spike in negative reviews because of how they're handling the COVID-19 crisis.
Deb (22m 22s):
Yeah. We're definitely watching it closely and monitoring it and, you know, just, it just depends on industry. And, you know, I would say it, it does depend on the type of role, but we're seeing it from experienced hires to where, when they're furloughed or lay it off they're, they're ranting on glass door. And I think in defense of some of these companies, it wouldn't matter how they delivered, you know, the, the message, if you're going to a 17 year, you know, bet in your company, and you're saying, Hey, you know, today's your last day, pack up your box and go, it does it doesn't matter how delicately you give that message.
Deb (23m 5s):
They're still going to be upset and they are, they are going to go to glass door and, and these pages and they aren't going to, you know, leave a review. And it stings. I think the best thing that we can do as employers and what we have been telling our clients to do is, you know, make sure that you are doing the best job, that you can make sure that you are really digging for every type of alternative before you cut the cord with somebody.
Deb (23m 36s):
But then also spend some time on figuring out, you know, how do we kind of balance out that negative with some positive? And so it's digging some of those really positive stories and some of the things that they're doing that would resonate and, you know, carry over and carry them through. I guess
Outro (23m 55s):
I'd like to thank Gerry. Thank you, Steven, for joining us. Again, this is our protecting your brand series. You can find it on Chadcheese.com a shaker, or have it. Gerry will be passing it out at the MCL and Steven Rothberg. You know, you know, it's going to be on college recruiter.com. Thanks so much, guys. We really appreciate you spending time with us and on that, we out.
Outro (24m 28s):
Well, cool. This has been the Chad and Cheese podcast, subscribe on iTunes, Google play, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you don't miss a single show and be sure to check out our sponsors because they make it all possible for more visit Chadcheese.com. Oh yeah. You're welcome.