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Radancy & Phenom buy European

While the world teeters on geopolitical confrontation, Chad & Cheese continue to keep the peace with Belgian brother from another mother, Lieven Van Nieuwenhuyze, and special guest Geert-Jan Waasdorp founder at Intelligence Group in The Netherlands.

This episode, the boys cover Otta from the Europeans perspective, while tackling new topics like Radancy's acquisition of Firstbird and Phenom's purchase of Tandemploy. Additionally, a little buy-or-sell commences with Alva Labs, Jobilla, and Kleoverse.

Spoiler alert: There's a lot of sell, sell, sell!


INTRO (6s):

Some podcasts, do it for the fun. Some do it for the fame, Chad and Cheese they do it for global effin domination. That's why bringing America to its knees was just the beginning. Now they have their eyes set on conquering Europe and they've drafted industry veteran Lieven Van Nieuwenhuyze of Belgium to help them navigate the old country and bring HR's most dangerous podcast across the pond to trash-talk like never before. Not safe for work in any language. The Chad and Cheese podcast does Europe.

Joel (39s):

Oh yeah. Olympic curling is back and Italy is kicking ass so pass the Chianti and the fava beans, Clarice, you are listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast does Europe. I'm your cohost Joel "hogged stone" Cheeseman.

Chad (53s):

I'm Chad "Macron will save us all" Sowash.

Lieven (58s):

Lieven "still waiting for Putin" Van Nieuwenhuyze

Joel (1m 2s):

And on this episode, US unicorns are coming for European startups. We pop the cherry on web three and a little game of buy or sell. Let's do this.

sfx (1m 13s):

Europe has a bunch of countries in it.

Chad (1m 14s):

I think the intro there's never been a better intro for Belgium ever and Lieven of Belgium.

Joel (1m 24s):

And then he comes on and goes, this is still Lieven, we have ways to make you talk.

Lieven (1m 31s):

Someone has to stay cool.

Joel (1m 32s):

We have a mystery guest guys as usual. We're very excited. Let's introduce Geert-Jan Waasdorp CEO and founder at Intelligence Group, an international now data and tech company specialized in global recruitment intelligence, GJ. Welcome to the podcast.

Geert-Jan (1m 53s):

Thank you guys. Happy to be here.

Chad (1m 54s):

Let's let's hear a little bit more about you. Do you like the summer walks on the beaches? What do you do there in the Netherlands?

Geert-Jan (2m 3s):

I like the summer, especially now when it's raining here in Rotterdam, I'm also very a soccer game, a fan of a Dutch club call to Feyenoord. But most of all, I'm working within my company, within my companies. I have several, one of them and I'm in started in '99 doing data. And what is now known as talent intelligence? I didn't know the name then, but 21 years later, we are doing that in 28 countries in Europe.

Joel (2m 32s):

Are there 28 countries in Europe?

sfx (2m 33s):

Europe has a bunch of countries.

Geert-Jan (2m 38s):

No, there, there are more countries within Europe, but not in every country there's data or else, not data collectible. I think there are about 35 or 36 European countries, but there are 28 within the EU. And I believe there were, there was a moment that the were 29.

Joel (2m 54s):

It's hard to keep count knowing some of them will be Russian in a year.

Lieven (2m 59s):

Oh, this hurts. So Geert-Jan Do you do something similar, like staffing, industry analysts or is it something different?

Geert-Jan (3m 7s):

Yeah, though we are more focusing on the fixed contracts so that we do a little bit of the temporary market, but we are most, most focusing on what is the behavior of candidates in the markets and then looking for looking for fixed contracts. So what drives them? What kind of media do they use? That kind of stuff.

Joel (3m 27s):

Can we call you a GJ? That's the big question.

Geert-Jan (3m 30s):

Yeah, you can.

Joel (3m 31s):

Cause trying to pronounce Geert-Jan all show is going to blow my head up. So GJ.

Chad (3m 35s):

It's going to break you.

Joel (3m 36s):

GJ sounds pretty good. So GJ for those that want to know more real quick, where would they go to find out more about Intelligence Group?

Geert-Jan (3m 47s):

Well, you go to

Joel (3m 49s):

Good enough for me. Let's get to shout outs.

Chad (3m 53s):

Excellent. I've got a shout out to Sonic Jobs. So Sonic Jobs received funding recently, and I believe you and Lieven and both gave them a thumbs down on the buy or sell. But Sonic Jobs actually rated number one in the UK apps by absolute growth downloads from 2021 versus 2020. More growth than WhatsApp business, or even the Indeed search app. So big shout out to Mikhil and the team over at Sonic jobs.

Joel (4m 27s):

Supersonic! Lieven what you got on shout outs, buddy?

Lieven (4m 29s):

You know, sure. You're not mixing them up with Sonic Youth or something now? Okay. I've got a shout out to Elin David, who today is a Country Manager at Now Jobs, but she has just been promoted to General Manager and that isn't that spectacular, but the reason why she's promoted this pretty impressive. Their now jobs app will break the 100 million Euro revenue this year, which was launched only a few years ago. And it's just a built, starting from scratch, focusing on flex jobs, students jobs, and launched only in four countries yet.

Lieven (5m 9s):

So Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, and France, and growing over 100 million euros. So I see a big unicorn in the making.

Joel (5m 19s):

Baby corn. All right, guys, I've got a shout out for meetings. Now stay with me here. Okay. Meetings involving Europe are very hot right now. Putin has met with Xi. Chancellor Olof Schultz from Germany is in Washington today. And Emmanuel Macron is meeting with Putin in Moscow this week. Interestingly, most of my life Europe was solidly in America's camp. There was a pretty clear line of what side everyone was on, but now that connective tissue seems to be weakening. Maybe it's Trump's America first presidency. Maybe it's the way we left Afghanistan or maybe how we screwed France over in favor of Australia on that submarine deal.

Chad (5m 57s):

Or all of it?

Joel (5m 59s):

Or all of it, or, or yes, but Europe seems very concerned about the US commitment to Europe and doesn't want a Russia, China ,Iran Alliance, breathing down its borders with a weak America. So I'm curious from the Europeans on the show, what's the impression of American military, a dominant support at the moment.

Lieven (6m 18s):

First of all, we never complained to an America was saving our add in World War One and we didn't complain one day in World War two. So I guess we won't complain if your save our ass once again. So we kind of still love the U S we don't want to pay for it. Of course. And we think NATO should be self-sustainable. But I think now it's time to become more friendly to our American friends.

Joel (6m 45s):

GJ. What are your thoughts on geopolitics?

Geert-Jan (6m 47s):

Well this is difficult because I think in Europe, we forgot to know what it's to be, to take some pain, to pay for our own defenses, to have it so a little bit cold when not depending on the Russian gas and probably we should be a little bit harder to ourselves and be straight to Putin and take care of our own business and not depending so much on the US because the US is not good for their words anymore.

Joel (7m 17s):


Chad (7m 18s):


Joel (7m 18s):

Ouch. That's some hard European truth right there.

Geert-Jan (7m 20s):

Well, us is more focusing on Asia.

Lieven (7m 23s):

But now no, it's not the time to piss the Americans off you know? We're trying to get friendly again with them. I mean, we've been joking about them for years, but now it's time to renew the friendship and invite them to put our missiles in our backgrounds.

Chad (7m 44s):

Yeah. But I think it's also incredibly important that Europe, EU and UK take a stand. It can't, it can't just be, you know, the US coming across the pond and sticking our fricking flag in the dirt. I mean, you guys really have to lead and we have to be leaders shoulder to shoulder, but we haven't seen enough of that I don't think. We see Germany kind of like waffling back and forth. So it'll be interesting.

Lieven (8m 8s):

Not true, but the Germans are still a bit, they've done their fair share in Russia 70 years ago. So they don't want to do it again. And the French well, they have the French Foreign Legion, but that's about it. So I'm not sure who's going to do it.

Joel (8m 22s):

Well differing opinions from the Europeans. That's why we have this show, everybody.

Chad (8m 27s):


Joel (8m 27s):

GJ, you got to shout out, man?

Geert-Jan (8m 30s):

I have two. I, first of all, I have a shout out to the Duth secret service. They found out that Chinese and Russian spies were recruiting high-tech talent, especially in the semiconductor industry in the Netherlands, by using fake LinkedIn profiles and using fake agencies. So they are doing now a social media campaign to warn everybody. So this is really a serious thing because we are building with ASML almost 80% of all chips in the world. This warning is very serious, seriously taken.

Geert-Jan (9m 9s):

And my second shout out is to Smart Recruiters by buying Attrax. And that's a number based company. Yeah. Friends of the show!

Joel (9m 22s):

Everyone's a friend of this show.

Geert-Jan (9m 24s):

That's true. I think going upstream and going well, Atarax is building very high end and very beautiful recruitment sites. Also able to combine the connection with several ATS systems. So this could be a smart move from Smart Recruiters.

Joel (9m 36s):

Chad, we've got some travel coming up. It's hard to think about that with snow on the ground here in the US.

Chad (9m 44s):

Knock on wood.

Joel (9m 45s):

But yes, we've got a May 6th, the eCongress Lieven tell them about your event coming up in May.

Lieven (9m 51s):

Okay. May 6th we have to probably the best ERecruitment Congress in Belgium. And I'm sure it's the best and Belgian the only one, but May 6th in Ostend, we will be talking about e-sports being the new recruitment plans about programmatics, about basically everything you've been talking about for years, we're going to talk about it again. We'll have some top notch speakers coming from all around the world, but mostly from Belgium and the Netherlands. We also have some Americans, some friends of the show, people from Ireland, from Scotland and the weather is going to be nice because we deserve it. It's seashore, it's just going to be tons of fun.

Lieven (10m 32s):

And we also have Chad and Cheese who are going to tell you yet, you're going to livestream on LinkedIn.

Chad (10m 36s):

I saw that live stream on LinkedIn. And I was like, okay, now we need a LinkedIn master to make sure that we're streaming.

Joel (10m 43s):

Yeah. We need LinkedIn to launch that shit soon to make sure that we can do it.

Lieven (10m 49s):

I can do it. No worries. You're going to livestream. Ooh.

Joel (10m 52s):

And for those that want to come work and they find out more info Lieven,

Lieven (10m 57s):

Just put erucruitment Congress and Google and we should be on top.

Joel (11m 0s):

And maybe add Belgium in there if you're in America looking to go to your, yeah, just in case, just in case a customer results for Google can be tricky from country to country. And we're also Chad hitting up RecFest in the UK on July 7th I think I have the date on that. We are owning the disrupt stage.

Chad (11m 20s):


Joel (11m 21s):

And that's going to be a lot of fun too. So our English friends you'll get to see us. Knebworth the Woodstock of England, apparently. All right guys, you know what comes next?

Chad (11m 38s):


Joel (11m 38s):

All right, Chad and I talked a little Otta on our weekly show, a few weeks back, but wanted to get some European opinion on this. Here's a quick news summary from Otta. The London based jobs platform has secured $20 million in series A funding. They're now planning to expand a US presence with an on the ground commercial team and double its product and engineering team in London. Otta was launched in January of 2020 so it's still in diapers. Since then it says it has gone from 1000 applications per month to more than 5,000 a day. Interestingly angel investors include Indeed's co-founder Paul Forster, Alex Bouaziz of Deel, Ben Herman and he's the founder of Canvas, formerly of Canvas and the leadership from Beamery.

Joel (12m 25s):

So who was excited about a new job board.

Geert-Jan (12m 29s):

10 years ago, I saw something as similar as old tab, and I don't recollect the name of the company, but I can remember them because it was smart than years ago, to have some questions, to build a profile instead of building your CV. So when I saw that 10 years ago, I said, oh, I thought that could be smart. But today, if we are 10 years later, and now it's not from this era anymore, but I feel in a profile. And what I think is good about Otta is that they enriched the digital profiles. So they enrich them with the bio, from the founders.

Geert-Jan (13m 12s):

They have API with TechCrunch, Glassdoor. They really have salary benchmarks and they enrich the profiles very smart. So if Otta was focusing more on being an enriching of job postings tool, that could be interesting, but to have a very niche job boards within for high-tech in London. Well, that could be very old fashioned. I don't think that's very revolutionary.

Joel (13m 33s):

How do you feel about their a US expansion plans?

Geert-Jan (13m 40s):

Well, if you have $20 million and you want to go to the U S then, then you can fly five times and then you're ready.

Joel (13m 48s):

You can buy five flights. Is that what you're saying?

Geert-Jan (13m 50s):

Yeah. Or you're finished because you're out of marketing budget.

Lieven (13m 55s):

With Putin has army at the border. This is the perfect time to move to the US.

Joel (14m 6s):

Any thoughts on their investor group? So Paul Forrester, Indeed, co-founder the Deel, Ben Herman of Canvas Beamery leadership. Does that speak positively or sorta neutral on that?

Geert-Jan (14m 17s):

I wish I would have them as an investor because they are great names. So probably they see something that we cannot see. I hope so, but from a perspective, as older, very niche that they are focusing on, I cannot see it.

Lieven (14m 31s):

I think basically they're doing what the candidate normally has to do for himself. Like gathering information about the job he's going to apply for. So they're counting on people's laziness, which actually might work. I think they're going to have a hard time getting known by job seekers. I mean, people are looking for a job for on average for six weeks, and then they get hired. So they constantly have to advertise to new generations of job seekers, which is extremely costly and been proven again and again, most companies just don't keep up. So I'm afraid, this is going to be a difficult one because they, as Geert-Jan also said, they're not that revolutionary.

Lieven (15m 14s):

They just gather information. It's like an aggregator for stuff on employers.

Chad (15m 18s):

I mean, I actually built a profile. It took at least 15 to 20 minutes. So it wasn't fast. They talk about enrichment. You have to upload your PDF from LinkedIn. They can't even` hit the LinkedIn API. And then when they do that, they only parse the titles. Then you have to fill in like three bullets per so, I mean, I don't know where this is going to end up, but where it is right now, I don't see it as even close to revolutionary. And the idea that they can now with a whole $20 million now start invading the U S I just, none of this makes sense to me.

Lieven (15m 58s):


Joel (15m 58s):

We're playing a little or sell later, but I'm hearing four sells on Otta. Is that correct? Maybe, maybe GJ has a hold on that, on that buy, I don't know.

Lieven (16m 9s):

It sounds like Randstad investment to me.

Geert-Jan (16m 12s):

Sell, but what, I don't understand this. If you look at this high-tech talent, this high-tech, high-end IT talents, maybe 2% of them are actively looking for a job. And so that market is so small and then doing a job board. That is not very smart.

Chad (16m 25s):

I'm with you.

Joel (16m 26s):

Yeah. A lot of this was echoed in, in our weekly show, so yeah, I'm glad we're all on the same page. Let's take a quick break and we'll get into some acquisitions.

sfx (16m 37s):

Europe Has a bunch of countries in it.

Joel (16m 41s):

All right, guys. Some well-funded US unicorns are not even unicorns, but some unicorns, some just well-funded American companies are buying up some European companies. So let's go to the news here. The first one we're gonna talk about is Phenom acquiring Tandemploy. So Phenom recently announced the acquisition of the company a Berlin based HR tech company founded in 2013 and it's focused on solving key problems associated with employee experiences. Tandem employees, feature technology as a matching algorithm that recommends pairings among peers, mentors, project leaders, and subject matter experts by analyzing skills based data and individual goals.

Joel (17m 22s):

It's European customers use it for employee belonging and for advancing organizational wide goals. How very European Phenom co-founder and CEO Mahe Bayireddi added "the move will rapidly accelerate growth in Europe, the middle east and Africa." A reminder that Phenom raised a hundred million dollars last year with a $1.4 billion valuation. So they have some money to play with. Guys what are your thoughts on the Phenom Tandemploy move?

Lieven (17m 49s):

I think it sounds like a Tinder for the workplace and this might've worked 15 years ago, but not anymore.

Chad (17m 56s):

Tinder for the workplace?

Lieven (17m 57s):

Yeah. It's like finding people and matching people with other people. And then they even had had some kind of a, it's not really dating app, but to put people together for dinner or something like that to match people so employees could get to know each other better and blah, blah, blah. I think that's a luxury problem. I mean, today, we're just happy. If we can find someone who we can hire him, and this is all the softs and blah blah HR stuff from from 15 years ago, but maybe I'm too cynic for this?

Geert-Jan (18m 30s):

Where you see a Smart Recruiters going more upstream to the external market. You see that phenom is going more downstream because if I look at the website of Tandom Ploy, I see they are focusing on the internal markets. And that's at this point where there are so many shortages on the market, the internal market is a market where you can develop people and keep people, there's really retention market. So it could be smart moving up there, but they are very small. They are 25 person. And knowing from a Phenom that bought two years ago, a Dutch company that was similar in size today, they have one employee left.

Geert-Jan (19m 15s):

So I'm very curious how that's going to develop, but it's a growing market that internal labor market. So could be interesting.

Chad (19m 23s):

I mean, let's face it. Most hiring companies are atrocious at internal mobility and it's not that they don't do it well, it's that they don't do it at all. So now that internal mobility is a buzzword, especially during the great resignation shuffle, awakening, whatever the fuck you want to call it, they need to retain talent. But most hiring companies are just talking about it and they don't know what to do about it. So this leaves a huge gap from a talent management standpoint for tech companies like Tandemploy to jump in and provide solutions that work. The biggest problem these platforms are going to have to face and this is squarely on Phenom, is finding out who is responsible and has budget for internal mobility.

Chad (20m 14s):

Is it HR? Is it talent acquisition? Who owns IM? I personally love this, this acquisition. I think it makes sense. But that being said, Phenom still has work to do.

Lieven (20m 22s):

I agree if you're a big, big corporate company, you might need something like this, but for most companies, I've just say, get to know your people. You don't need software to know your people. I mean, talk to them. They say on their website somewhere, we develop software that connects people and knowledge and organizations. Okay. So knowledge, if you need knowledge on legal stuff, you go to the legal department. If you need knowledge on, on IT stuff, you go to the IT department, it isn't rocket science and all those, those solutions, they deliver a solution for, in my opinion, not for any existing problem.

Joel (20m 56s):

So interestingly, a Phenom used to be a mobile developer. They used to have a deal with a CareerBuilder to build mobile sites for their customers. My, how things have changed Phenom is now more valuable than CareerBuilder. But Mahe already said, in an interview recently that an IPO would be coming "soon" and increasing the global footprint is a necessary move if you're going public. I think the addition of Tandom employee to Phenom widens their reach in Europe, it adds a second German office. It also expands its operations in the UK, Ireland, Netherlands, France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.

Joel (21m 40s):

So these guys are fricking everywhere. The Tandemploy employee team will transition over to Phenom, including its co-founders and co-CEOs. So let's see Phenom gets new customers. They get greater reach in Europe and they also get the talent at the company. Terms were not disclosed, but Hey, when you have a hundred million dollars, who's counting. I agree with Chad. This is a, probably a pretty good deal at not a real big cost to them.

Geert-Jan (22m 8s):

With all the recruitment challenges you see in the, in Europe and it's very difficult, more and more difficult for recruitment to fill all the gaps. You see companies shifting to internal mobility, keeping people or to retain people. But also when we're talking, we'll talk about it in a moment. A referral is also a tool that's really being used when recruitment is not delivering anymore.

Joel (22m 33s):

I'll take that handoff GJ. Thank you. Let's get into the a Radancy First Bird, First Bird flipping people off. Okay. Recruitment marketing and tech company Radancy formerly TMP worldwide for the old timers has announced plans to acquire First Bird, a vendor of candidate referral programs, Vienna based First Bird will continue to operate under the First Bird name with CEO, Walls at the helm. The deal is expected to close by April subject to customary closing conditions and regulatory approvals. Financial terms were not disclosed. First Bird serves more than 1000 clients, including McDonald's, T-Mobile and Vodafone.

Joel (23m 16s):

What do we think about the Radancy/First Bird deal?

Lieven (23m 21s):

I've always been a big believer in social referral, then employee referral. And I think they might actually be on to something. I've never seen a company doing it exactly right. And I've never heard of stories where employee referral makes for the biggest chunk in referral. But First Bird actually is doing a very good job on it. I think this is a good acquisition.

Geert-Jan (23m 45s):

I agree with Lieven. In whether there are not any known success stories about referral technology.

Lieven (23m 51s):


Geert-Jan (23m 52s):

That First Bird can be one, but you at least need some recruiters who are fully dedicated to referral. But what I really find interesting in this buying of First Bird is that they are integrated with over 40 ATS systems. And I think that that is very interesting for Radancy because they now have their Torian horse into 40 well systems in the markets and they could plug their other technology by using the well the way that First Bird has already made for them. Yeah.

Chad (24m 23s):

Yeah. Unfortunately, Radancy doesn't work that way. They like to do their own things their own way. And everybody else get the fuck out of the way. But employee referrals, I'd like to point to what GJ just said. You're not known a success story. And there's one big reason why there's no success stories in employee referral tech. It Is because talent acquisition doesn't see it as a problem. Talent acquisition automatically either number one or number two of sources of hire generally are employee referrals and they don't have to do anything. They're fucking tripping over people, right? So there's no budget that's usually spent in this.

Chad (25m 4s):

And if it is, it's really a pittance, it's really small. So this has never seen as being a problem throughout the years. So therefore talent acquisition doesn't pay for something that they don't think is a problem. Then you have the biggest issue that these employee referral platforms face is adoption. You get it plugged into a system. You can be integrated to a 20,000 applicant tracking systems. It doesn't matter because if you don't have adoption re-engagement and if you're not constantly pulling teams in, not individuals, but teams in, to actually draw out of their LinkedIn networks or what have you, then it's a bust you're paying for something that's not getting used.

Chad (25m 46s):

So I personally don't think that Radancy didn't see did their due diligence on this and understand the market enough to know that employee referrals and employee referral tech, until you can get the adoption piece down. You're fucked.

Joel (25m 60s):

Yeah. Chad, you and I have been talking about referral systems since what, H3 back in the early two thousands? I mean the referral business is just littered.

Chad (26m 12s):

Sorry Hans.

Joel (26m 12s):

Like it's almost as bad as the college recruiting industry. Like it's just riddled with death, destruction and dismemberment. So why Radancy does not have a long, storied past of acquisitions that make sense if they make many acquisitions at all, and like this one's a real head scratcher to me. I don't know if this was like on the clearance rack in Europe and Radancy just picked it up. If they have some good, you know, founders and tech talent that they want to bring him in, but this was just a total head-scratcher to me. First Bird is a cute name. We made fun of them a couple of years ago at RecFest. And that was fun. They're having the last laugh because they got acquired and we're still doing the show, but again, total head-scratcher to me, why Radancy did this and why anyone thinks referrals are still a good business.

Chad (27m 1s):

And it's so Radancy should actually just change their name to FirstBird.

Joel (27m 5s):

Is there a second bird? Cause I feel like it could be a total, like a binge worthy.

Chad (27m 12s):

Buying it right now.

Joel (27m 14s):

Every year just start a new bird. Third bird, 2024. Okay. Who's who wants, he wants to play a little buy or sell?

Chad (27m 20s):

I do.

Joel (27m 21s):

Alright. I do too. Okay. Buy or sell, you know how this works guys, we get three companies that have recently raised money. I'll read a little summary of each one and then each of us will buy or sell that company and tell the audience why they are choosing buy or sell. Got it? All right. All right. First up is Alva Labs. Swedish startup Alva Labs has raised 11.7 million euros for its digital hiring tool that helps recruiters qualify and compare job candidates using data-driven candidate assessments. The company has a vision to help generate a bias free job market.

Joel (28m 2s):

The solution tests across logic and personality, saving recruiters, time, money, and resources while also increasing the chances they find the right person for the job. In 2021 Alva Labs tripled its employee head count, expanding the team from 20 to 60, increased its candidate pool by three and a half times, and grew its international customer base by two and a half times. The company counts the likes of Deloitte as customers. Lieven buy or sell Alva Labs out of Sweden?

Lieven (28m 34s):

It all sounds impressive. And digital hiring tool and bias free and marketing, blah, blah. But basically it's just another matchmaking platform like there are so many, much messaging platforms. And maybe, maybe, I don't know this one, maybe it's a very good matchmaking platform. And then that should be a buy because we all need definitely the matchmaking platforms, but by promoting it's that it's bias free, that's bullshit. All platforms should be biasfree.

Joel (29m 1s):

Sounds like a sell to me.

Geert-Jan (29m 3s):

Well, the bias free was like the marketing bullshit that Lieven was talking about. What you see, in my opinion, this, the assessment business is a growing market. And a lot of venture capitalists are going into that market. Probably there are a lot of high margin to gain, but what I do not understand is why they are going to the UK? The UK market This is the highest with the highest competition within Europe. You don't get a feet on the ground and if you are a Swedish company go into, in the Netherlands or Belgium of Denmark or even Germany, but you don't go to the UK. That is a waste of time and money.

Geert-Jan (29m 46s):

So for me, that choice going to the UK makes it a sell.

Chad (29m 48s):

Ooh. Okay. Okay. Well, I do like that Alva Labs is looking to expand out to Sweden for God's sakes. Talk about a small market. I mean, I think that's smart going to the UK. I, but will it automate and scale? I think it will. Do the founders have experience in this space? They do not. Competition is fierce in this space and you talked about VC putting money into it because it's magic and it's elixir, baby. It can't be proven. Personally I don't believe in psycho analyzing anybody for a hire for me. This is all just a Zoltar stuff.

Chad (30m 29s):

Right? Madam, what was that? What was the Madam Lieven?

Lieven (30m 32s):

Madam Solet.

Chad (30m 33s):

So this is Madam Solet bullshit. I'm not buying.

Joel (30m 35s):

All right. I'll take a diff I'll take a different approach. Fuck it. So, yeah, they're talking about the UK, but thank God they're not talking about conquering the US like almost every startup out of Europe is doing, , and I've talked a lot about companies that are RAD being money machines in terms of getting investment dollars. So RAD, if you forgot is Remote, Automated and Diversity, and these guys check off automation and they check off diversity. So that means they're going to get more money to build this thing and maybe make it competitive. So I will be the discerning voice here and give Alva Labs out of Sweden, a buy rating.

Joel (31m 22s):

Now let's get to jobszilla. I mean Jobilla, Jobilla. Yeah. Fins are so weird. All right. Finish talent acquisition startup Jobilla has secured eight point 25 million euros. This follows a 2 million Euro seed round just a year ago. Founded in 2015, Jobilla combines AI powered candidate filtering, a mobile supported funnel and top marketing strategies that ensure the best candidates see the job opportunities. Based in Helsinki Jobilla has grown 150% in revenue from 2020 to 2021, and is ready to further expand its operations, especially in the German and here it comes US markets.

Joel (32m 8s):

In the US Jobilla's clients include companies such as Pfizer and get ready for this Arkansas Surgical Hospital. Guys buy or sell Jobilla?

Lieven (32m 15s):

I'm basically just because I don't like their name. I think a good name is very important, so they should rethink their name. No, but the German approach is a good idea in the German market is probably one of the most important markets in Europe right now, and the American dream where you can't blame them for dreaming big, but no, I'm not really convinced.

Geert-Jan (32m 41s):

Yeah. I always liked startups. So you probably have to be supportive to any entrepreneur who's putting all his soul into his company, but if I'm looking to Jobilla, what I'm missing is the word programmatic. So what I, what you see in their solution is a distribution of vacancies by social. And if people like to, they click and they do an assessment again, an assessment. If they had been into programmatic, that probably should have been a buy, because programmatic is there's no, not much programmatic in Europe, but I think that's mainly handgun work, what they are doing.

Geert-Jan (33m 24s):

Yeah. It's sell.

Joel (33m 26s):

It's a sale. All right, Chad, you're going to buck the trend or not.

Chad (33m 33s):

Here's a quote from one of their founders, "our solution is really not brutally competing with any other company in this $500 billion plus market, because there is no one that is thinking of recruiting so purely from the candidate experience." Yes. Thank you, Henry. I think Henry needs to wake up and just pay attention to what the fuck's going on around him. It will automate and scale? Yes. I think GJ is a hundred percent correct. When I was looking at this, I was looking at some type of programmatic ability to get targeted distribution. Didn't see it. Do the founders have experience in this space?

Chad (34m 13s):

No. And the big no-no here is that they have a quote unquote "digital marketing suite of solutions" on their website, which means they're competing with possible channel partners, early adopters and acquirers. I give these guys a big, no way, thumbs down. Although if you're on Netflix and you like Bordertown, that is a Finnish murder mystery that you'll love. So go to Netflix. Bordertown you like that?

Joel (34m 35s):

Well, that's a buy on the Netflix series, but a sell on the company. All right. I'll make this quick. Cause I want to, I want to get to Cleoverse. So stay in Europe. It might be a buy for me if they weren't talking about the U S but they're not. And frankly, if Arkansas Surgical Hospital is one of your press release companies, that mountain is too high for you to climb Jobilla. Even with that massive 10 million Euro bank account. So big sell from me. And that makes it a sweep of sells there. All right. Let's get into Cleoverse.

sfx (35m 16s):

Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

Joel (35m 21s):

All right this might go in crazy places. So Futurama time. Web3, the first time we've said that on the show, I think Chad Web3 startup Kleoverse has raised $1.2 million. The Finish, yes we're back to Finland, startup has developed a new way to help talent find jobs at Dows on web three and aims to showcase proof of talent via NFTs to combat today's inadequate and old-fashioned practices of the traditional search. Kleoverse helps freelancers create a professional identity in web3, using blockchain.

Joel (36m 4s):

Kleoverse, hands out NFTs to visualize an individual's web3 proof of talent based on the projects that they've completed with decentralized autonomous organizations, or Dows. The company says they want to replace the need for quote old-fashioned CVS, that don't give a realistic image of the candidates, experience and skills. Today. Kleoverse has over 100 DAOs on its platform and a few dozen projects hosted already by the time of its launch. With over 1000 users signed up for the platform. Does anyone want to buy Kleoverse?

Lieven (36m 43s):

Yeah, probably. I think two guys who are sitting at a bar and getting drunk and placing a bet. I can make 1 million just by inventing something which says NFT and bitcoin and blockchain and then someone will invest. And I think it worked. Yeah. It's something like that. It must be thinking, what can we launch, including blockchain and NFTs? And they came up with this and one person at least was stupid enough to invest, I guess.

Joel (37m 11s):

So are you buying the fact that they actually raised money?

Lieven (37m 15s):

I'm buying the fact that raise money. I kind of appreciate that. Yeah, no, no.

Chad (37m 23s):

That's a sell from Lieven.

Joel (37m 26s):

Yeah. That's a Sell from Lieven. All right.

Geert-Jan (37m 31s):

Well, they could be brilliant. Very brilliant that we don't understand that they are from outer space or 10 years ahead of us. Could be.

Lieven (37m 40s):

Chances are small though.

Geert-Jan (37m 41s):

Now, fading and NFTs or NFTs it's it's Nope, Nope, no joke for me.

Joel (37m 47s):

Is that a sell from GJ? Okay. Chad are you gonna make it a streak?

Chad (37m 54s):

Oh God dude. First and foremost, I don't believe hiring companies are. I mean, anybody even understands what the fuck a decentralized autonomous organization is, right? DAO. Yes. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry. It, and we're like one of the slowest adoption rate segments, I think in business. So I guess the question is, are they trying to get business to adopt this or are they trying to create these new decentralized organizations? I don't understand what the fuck is going on here. So I've got to sell.

sfx (38m 24s):

Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

Joel (38m 28s):

All right. That's three sells and I'm going to make it a clean sweep, I think. Oh great. This is just awful. This is simple profiting off the blockchain trend. It reminds me a little bit of remember ICO's initial coin offering? We had that scam in our space and people made millions. Here comes Web3 with more scams. If there are any winners here and I'm super skeptical, it'll be 20 years from now. And I will be comfortably numb in the metaverse with Posh Spice by then. So this is a big sell for me, although it is very amusing.

Joel (39m 10s):

All right guys, that's another game of buy or sell. A lot of selling in the books. So thanks for joining us, everybody a big, thanks to Geert. Geert again, where can we find more Intelligence Group?

Geert-Jan (39m 27s):

Well, you can find me on LinkedIn and of course Intelligence Group is

Joel (39m 36s):

Excellent. Guys, if you want to hear more episodes out of Europe, more Euro goodness? Checkout Boys it's been fun. We'll be back in a couple of weeks, but until then.

Joel, Chad and Lieven (39m 49s):

We out.

OUTRO (40m 26s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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