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2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

Seekout, JobandTalent Open The Vault

Cha-ching! Seekout, Jobsandtalent open the damned vault!

Let's just cut to the chase. This episode has everything our listeners crave:

- Mad investment dollars going into Seekout and JobandTalent

- International intrigue,

- Recruiting robots in your pocket,

- Indeed, CareerBuilder, Monster and Amazon bashing,

- Women worshipping, and yes, even Burger King.

So throw that into your iPod Classic and smoke it! Special thanks to Sovren, JobAdx, and Jobvite for powering this monstrosity.


Disability Solutions helps forward thinking employers create world class hiring and retention programs for people with disabilities.

INTRO (0s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (28s):

Oh Yeah. The only thing hotter than non fungible tokens and herd immunity. This is the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel "stimulus-bill" Cheeseman.

Chad (41s):

And I'm Chad "got my first shot" Sowash.

Joel (43s):

And on this week's show, Seek Out more like Cash In, am I right? Tim Guy in your pocket and BK says, get back in the kitchen. Have you tried this chicken sandwich yet?

Chad (55s):


JobAdX (56s):

Reach relevant candidates effortlessly across 200 sites in the US and Canada. Simply upload a feed of your jobs and set your budget in less than five minutes. We do the rest. Getting an influx of applicants already that just aren't the right fit? JobAdX presents your jobs to targeted candidates based on their job preferences to get granular. Now your advertising spend can go towards more relevant candidates, not just more applicants. What's more your JobAdX programmatic campaigns now reach for government job bank systems in over 30 States, giving you centralized access to the majority of active job seekers, eager to get off of unemployment and get back to work. Send us a note today with your unique challenge, to see how we can help you in the new state of recruiting, make the next step forward and start your results focused campaign now at that's

Chad (1m 45s):

Damn dude. So how was virtually podcasting in the great white North?

Joel (1m 51s):

Oh, it was lovely. I dressed extra warm with my Toque. That was a gift from the boys at Rec Text back in Christmas. And I may have had a sip of alcohol to keep warm as well. And also, you know, I'm just a better podcaster when I'm drunk. Yes, we had a good time. Hopefully, if you haven't heard that one, go check it out on whatever that podcast name is. I don't even remember.

Chad (2m 16s):

The Recruitment Flex.

Joel (2m 17s):

The Recruitment Flex. That's right. And no one knows flexing like me, so I should remember that.

Chad (2m 23s):

Yeah. I mean, Shelly actually coming in and guest hosting, she was delightful, knowledgeable and easy to listen to. Everything you're not.

Joel (2m 31s):

Yeah, I was gonna say so is nothing like our regular show. People must love that.

Chad (2m 34s):

Entirely. It was a great departure. Let me say.

Joel (2m 40s):

Thoughtfulness, intelligence, class.

Chad (2m 44s):

Nothing like our listeners are used to, which is why they probably liked it so much. She does love the sexy, careless, whisper saxophone. That's for sure.

Joel (2m 54s):

And who doesn't, which is by the way, why we're announcing that I'm leaving the show as of today. And Shelly is now moving, moving into my place.

Chad (3m 2s):

Don't say that. Cause you will, you will get her

Joel (3m 4s):

I need therapy. Dammit. This is my weekly therapy session and we didn't do it last week. So I'm destined to cry on this show. I may, I may release gas. I don't know, but I need some, I need some Chad time.

Chad (3m 19s):

Well, first and foremost, I need a big thank you because you would not be on the vaccination list right now. If it weren't for Chad looking out for you.

Joel (3m 26s):

Yeah, I appreciate that. So you actually got a shot. We'll get to that in a second, but yeah, you, I guess you got alerted that you're on some wait lists and then told me like, Hey dude, you're almost you're, we're both almost 50. It was like, Hey, if it's four months, four months before it or into it you're you can get it. And I was like, I don't know. And I went to the wrong link and you shared the right link and I was able to get on. So, you know, : I scheduled the earliest time of day, which was April 23rd at 12:20, I think here locally. So by our birthday, the 28th and 27th, I should be ready for the summer of love.

Chad (4m 3s):

Amen, brother. That's what I'm talking.

Joel (4m 5s):

Amen. Indeed.

Chad (4m 6s):

Yeah. I was lucky enough to have somebody actually looking out for me. They saw that there was a cancellation and they had just changed the age restrictions. So I literally got in the day before and I got the shot the next day. And that's when I contacted you and said, Hey, are you on the list yet? And you're like, no, we're not 50. And I'm like, that's what I thought too. But there's obviously a trick to this fucking thing. You have to be, you know, 50 in July or some shit, which makes no sense. But anyway.

Joel (4m 40s):

J and J or did you get a Pfizer? Moderna?

Chad (4m 43s):

I got Pfizer.

Joel (4m 44s):

Okay. So you still got to get the other one. I'm getting Mederna. I think I thought it was Modelo at first and I was going to get a beer. By the way, what the fuck is up with Texas? My 81 year old father who survived two bouts of cancer, isn't vaccinated yet. They've released masks. Like the mandate is out. So whatever's going on in Texas. It ain't good.

Chad (5m 8s):

If he was closer to any of those white, rich senators or representatives or some shit like that, or if he was like a huge donor, he'd probably they would have come to his house and are already given. Yeah.

Joel (5m 21s):

The Ted Cruz vaccination tour is what he needs to get on and Cancun, Cabo or Cancun. Which do you prefer?

Chad (5m 30s):

Cancun. Because in Cabo, you can't get in the ocean. The riptides will rip you under!

Joel (5m 36s):

Yes. Do not swim in Cabo. Kids just stay on the mainland, getting drunk.

Chad (5m 42s):


Joel (5m 42s):

Unlimited buffets and drinking. Anyway, man, let's get to, let's get to some shout outs. Anything stand out to you from the last couple of weeks?

Chad (5m 50s):

Well, first and foremost, we've had, we've been hearing a lot about royalty lately.

Joel (5m 56s):

Harry and Meghan, right? The Megxit, the big Megxit. People in Britain are going nuts.

Chad (5m 59s):

No, I'm talking about coming to America two, is Zumunda was talking about the royalty of Zumunda and Coming to America 2 just dropped on Amazon. And I think it's like a 30 year anniversary or something like that, but it was, it was fun. It was a very fun watch. And after watching it, seeing like comments on people saying, well, it wasn't as good as the first one. And it's just like, give me a fucking break, people. Allow your brain to shut down and just laugh at stupid Eddie Murphy and Arsenio Hall.

Joel (6m 36s):

I have not seen it yet. I'm waiting for my 14 year old son to be here to enjoy it.

Chad (6m 42s):


Joel (6m 43s):

Does let your Soul Glow come back. I like are jerry curls. Do they have the McDowell's? Did they make an appearance or are they totally out of the new one?

Chad (6m 51s):

Well, Soul Glow was like in the background of a couple of the barber, the barber shot shot shots. McDowell's was definitely there. As a matter of fact, they opened as a Mundo look as a Mondo location. So yeah. I mean, it's, it's like they do a lot of throwback shit and it's just fucking funny because it's just fucking stupid. Fuck you. Fuck you too. There's there's a little bit of that.

Joel (7m 22s):

Face to face.

Chad (7m 25s):

You've got to have Disney plus right? You to have a little fun.

Joel (7m 28s):

Disney plus got Amazon prime video, whatever Netflix, Hulu.

Chad (7m 33s):

Have you watched Wanda vision at all?

Joel (7m 35s):

Haven't. I haven't. We're on a big Stanley Tucci in it in Italy kick right now. And we're catching up on Shameless episodes.

Chad (7m 45s):

Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. We're catching up on Fringe episodes. We're on season two, but Wanda vision is like a must. It was incredibly well done. Marvel just knows how to do their shit. So a Winter Soldier and I think Falcon and Winter, Winter Soldiers, the next one up, hopefully that one will also meet the bar.

Joel (8m 7s):

Yeah. Heard really good things. I'll try to, I haven't finished season two of the Mandalorian, so, Oh, I'm way behind. Oh, that's good. So I know we joke, but did, did you see any of the Harry and Megan, do you care?

Chad (8m 19s):

I do care, just from the standpoint of, she was at the point mentally where she was contemplating suicide and that is never right, in, and I don't give a fuck if you're in the Royal family or where you're at. Right? So yeah, this is, this is an issue. And then having idiots like Piers Morgan, trying to, trying to slash and burn her reputation even more. Luckily he's off that fucking Good Morning, America, Britain or Good Morning Britain.

Joel (8m 51s):

I stand forever confused by the appeal of the Royal family, call me an American, but I just, I just don't get it.

Chad (8m 58s):

How much money goes into that?

Joel (9m 1s):

I have no idea. It's ridiculous. It's I dunno. It's it's like, I guess the equivalent of fame being famous for just being famous Kardashians style here in the States, but we tend to rotate every few years. They've been on the same people for a thousand years. So what are you going to do? But I will shout out to Oprah. She is still a gangster man. She is still like equal parts, velvet glove and iron fist when she does an interview. So I was glad to see her back and her glasses must cost $8,000. Man. I think those things are made out of like whalebone and I dunno, Martian glass, they look so. I'm just jealous.

Chad (9m 41s):

You can, you can never go wrong with a little Oprah.

Joel (9m 44s):

Speaking of awesome. Have you seen Todd Burns in a Chad and Cheese? T-shirt

Chad (9m 49s):

Holy shit. I have not. But anybody wearing a Chad and Cheese t-shirt generally looks much better than prior.

Joel (9m 57s):

Oh yeah. There is a sexification that happens when you put on that silky smooth cotton. Combed cotton to be exact. Chad and Cheese t-shirt.

Chad (10m 7s):

Listeners, listeners will remember. We reported a few months ago that CareerBuilder was leaning heavy on auto-renewal contracts. Well, kids, I guess that's over because it went over like a lead balloon and customers pretty much said they weren't going to have it. So CareerBuilder then sent a response message saying, yeah, we're not going to do that anymore.

Joel (10m 30s):

Can we take credit for that one? I think we ripped into him pretty hard for him.

Chad (10m 34s):

Well, I, and again, it's one of those indicators, right? That their organization they've been going down to the bone from a structure standpoint. They've always been incredibly good on the sales side of the house, but this just demonstrates that leadership doesn't understand how CareerBuilder was built. You know, it was built through connections and relationships and this kind of shit just blows it all to fucking pieces.

Joel (11m 2s):

Speaking of, you mentioned that a source tells me that unconfirmed Indeed is now charging sales tax taxable purchases, where they weren't before apparently they were eating that 5 to 8% expense. So if true, that's a nice way to add 5 to 8% to your bottom line. Just start charging sales tax where you weren't before.

Chad (11m 24s):

Yeah. Well, companies have been paying the Indeed dumb tax for a very long time. So, you know, what's another five to whatever fucking percent, right?

Joel (11m 34s):

The dumb tax that's like listening to our show, the ultimate dumb tax. What are you doing listening to us? Let's get to topics, shall we?

Chad (11m 43s):


Joel (11m 44s):

And Job and Talent. I sold this one on buyer sell a few weeks ago. If I remember merely on the fact that name sucks and it still does, but so this, this Spain based startup, they call themselves a "work as a service" platform. They announced a series D round of $119 million that they're getting from SoftBank as well as a $99 million debt and funding from BlackRock, bringing the total raised this round to $218 million. They last raised $108 million in January of this year, which brings the total amounts ...

Chad (12m 22s):

2 months ago!

Joel (12m 24s):

... to $507.6 million. If you think they're worth it, they reported revenue growth from $6 million in 2016 to, are you ready for this $596 million in 2020? There was no word on the actual valuation at this point, but I got to think next, you know, next turn unicorn status for them? They streamline the job application admin and payroll into a one-stop shop suggest its marketplace workforce as a service model can provide temps with continuous employment. They are preparing to enter the US market in the next year. And did I mention, I still hate the name. We're pretty excited by these numbers if nothing else.

Joel (13m 6s):


Chad (13m 7s):

Yeah. I'd like to say 1998 called and they want their marketing strategy back Cheeseman. So 850 companies use Job and Talent to match temporary roles and do the hard work like payroll, time sheets, legal compliance, all that kind of shit. Unlike Indeed Flex and who I've been pretty hard on Job and Talent, works with staffing companies instead of competing with them. This means the platform could become the staffing segments new operating system, could help them scale and drive revenues through higher margins or better margins.

Chad (13m 48s):

So I think overall what Fndeed Flex and they're missing is where the money is being made. And that's not competing with staffing, but actually working with staffing, becoming their operating system. To me, this is it. This is lightning in a fucking bottle.

Joel (14m 7s):

Yeah, this is pretty cool, for them. So, two questions I have. One is, they really bill this thing as a like continuous employment or permanent employee, so you're basically staying employed by just picking up contracts. So if one expires you get another one. So, so I kinda like the genius of, of spinning a temp working site as a permanent, by just hopscotching to different opportunities. Agree or disagree? And also can they make this thing work in the US?

Chad (14m 37s):

I love that because you know, when the contract ends, so you can have them ready for the next contract, not to mention, I guarantee you that employers can request working with individuals that they've had before, right? So you have a bench that is set up yourself of individuals that you want to take that position. So I think there are many different ways you can actually work the technology from the employee or contractor standpoint. And then from the employer standpoint. And I sure as hell believe that if staffing companies in the United States, aren't looking at this, if they're not looking at trying to create an operating system that allows them to scale faster and to be able to look forward into the future with regard to where are they going to go next, as opposed to yeah.

Chad (15m 22s):

Sit on the bench for a couple of weeks while we wait and try to find you something they will lose because platforms like this will win. Indeed, if they are smart enough to actually drop the competition, if is smart enough to actually drop the competition and become that operating system, I think they have a chance, but if they don't, I think somebody is going to come in right up underneath it, scoop them up and fuck both those platforms.

Joel (15m 48s):

Yeah. And by the way, the timing of this is perfect. As the world opens up, restaurants, open up all these sort of jobs that are going to just blow up as we come into the summer of love, as I call it, as we vaccinate the world, couldn't be, be better timing. Did I mention, I hate the name? Spend some of that money on that and get something new. Anyway, whatever, more money flowing. And Oh my God, do we have a great track record on death match? Or what? Like, let me tell you if anybody wonders, if we know what the fuck we're talking about. Like if nothing else we've got Canvas, Opening, Seek Out app all, all home runs at this point that are death match winners. So anyway, Seek Out in the news, by the way, speaking of names Seek Out, got

Joel (16m 33s):

At some point, I remember when they launched, they were I did a little research there, now. So good for them. They kind of did that, right? So anyway, they announced a new round of funding this time to the tune of $65 million in series B led by tiger global management with participation from existing investors, Madrona Venture Group, and Mayfield. This raise brings the Redmond, Washington based startup to a total funding since it launched in 2017 to $73 whopping million dollars, putting a valuation on the company, close to half a billion dollars, not shabby for people search engine.

Chad (17m 12s):


Joel (17m 12s):

Seek Out will invest in sales, marketing, and customer success to reach new customers. They put a big diversity spin on the PR. I think all three of the quotes in the story talked about diversity. So that's obviously a huge, huge thing. Any thoughts on the news? Good for them.

Chad (17m 29s):

Bringing Jackie Clayton on board doesn't hurt when you're talking about diversity and being able to, to really understand technology. And I mean there, and obviously wrap the DEI marketing around a tool, look for practical applications and those types of things. But as we said, and I think when we in Austin in 2019 and we were judging these guys, one of the biggest reasons that pushed me over the edge was Seek Out was Anoop Gupta was the right hand, man for Bill Gates. Now it's not, not only because it makes him a really fucking smart dude, but he is a really fucking connected. So I believe personally, I believe these platforms are becoming a dime a dozen, great tech, powerful matching, and yet not all of these companies have a great go to market strategy in tandem with disciplined leadership.

Chad (18m 22s):

That's where I believe Seek Out is one of the top echelon types of platforms in this segment. Yes. Everybody is going to have amazing tech. The thing that we have to look at now as analysts in the space, who are the leaders who are going to be disciplined and who really have their shit together?

Joel (18m 42s):

Yeah. You, typically bet on the jockey and not the horse and Anoop Gupta obviously has the chops to make this, make this thing something special. I got to admit, I kinda got this space wrong. I kind of felt like at one point that profiles and online, you know, finding people online was sort of a commodity. And I'd say a couple of years ago it looked like it might be. Right? Anyway, it used to be like anybody that can make a Chrome extension can go search, you know, 200 million profiles. And it seems like I've lost a little bit of I guess, nuance that comes into play with this stuff. So I guess making sense of all this data has really become important.

Joel (19m 24s):

So no shock that some data scientists are actually figuring out how to make 2 cents out of a dollar with some of these profiles. And I also think it's a little bit of an anti LinkedIn bet. I think that there's a lot of distaste for LinkedIn, the money that they charge and what they provide for that. And people are looking for an alternative to LinkedIn. And if you can come into the market, like Seek Out has with 500, 600 million, a hundred million profiles, which they have, and you can provide nuance and a better search. And by the way, they're adding, they're starting to add automated messaging and some tools that are, you know, AI related and automated tools, which we talk about all the time on the show.

Joel (20m 4s):

I mean, they're really evolving this thing nicely and I couldn't be happier, happier for them. And I'm glad you mentioned Jackie, because in hiring her, they also hired the whitest guy on the planet, Jeremy Robert. Yes. There is some equilibrium there, in those two hires, but yeah, really happy for them and keep an eye on that. They they've gotta be on acquisition alert at this point.

Chad (20m 27s):

No question. I think again, you take a look at this type of tech and they were smart to go to market with a brand that is focused on really, it was LinkedIn at first LinkedIn and Get hub. How can we help recruiters get to those, those individuals who are most qualified types of skills, et cetera, et cetera, how do we get to them faster? Well, the search on LinkedIn sucks, the search on an applicant tracking system sucks. The search everywhere sucks. How do you create that power search? Then it became matching because of all the data that they were actually compiling. So this is, what it's doing is, it's morphing nicely as it grows much like I'd like to say a little robot we know.

Joel (21m 12s):

A robot Tengai some news out of them. So everyone knows that listened to the show what Tengai is, but if you've missed it, it's the recruiting robot.

Chad (21m 22s):

A real robot!

Joel (21m 23s):

We've talked for a while and that they should evolve into a software as well. So jeez surprise. The Swedish based Tengai has launched their product on mobile devices, adding software to its offering. Apparently you tested this thing, is that correct?

Chad (21m 38s):

I am on the schedule tomorrow to have my interview with Tengai, but I do want to say, remember back in 2019, when we were floating in the Kattegatt Sea in Sweden, and then we had a chance to actually take like a full day with the Tengai team. And we talked to them about good on market strategy and where their gaps were. And my main concern was scale. How do you quickly and easily scale something that is a physical robot? It can be done, but it's not easy. And it is very costly to go into mass production. On the other hand, an app software can scale much more quickly as AWS can spin up instances.

Chad (22m 21s):

So, you know, I'm not going to credit us for being the reason because I just think that this was the smart way to go in the first place. But I do know that we did have a hard nudge on several occasions in talking to these guys. I love the physical robot, don't get me wrong, but I think overall, this is the winner.

Joel (22m 40s):

The robot has some logistical challenges, to say the least. So to me, their promotional email kind of says it all. So they said to meet the increased market demand for conversational AI and remote interviews, we're launching automated, two-way interactive digital video interviews with the new release recruiters around the world can sit back and relax while candidates perform the interviews, hiring managers can then access the unbiased interview data and its result, blah, blah, blah. So this is basically like video chat with the robot. I will report back. I promise. So, so my question is this better than chatting text with deep fake becoming sort of more and more advanced?

Joel (23m 24s):

Couldn't you just have the robot be, I don't know, Penelope Cruz or just a random woman or man? So I kind of questioned like why it had to be the Tengai robot. I understand that the hard and the soft together, but I got to think at some point, if this becomes a thing, you'll talk to a real person instead of a robot.

Chad (23m 45s):

The CEO or the, you know, the natural HR manager or what have you. Yeah. If you remember the actual physical robot, you can easily take the face off and replace it. And they had a Barack Obama version. So it was something that physically they could change. I guarantee you, this is something that they either have baked in or will have baked in soon.

Joel (24m 9s):

It'll be like a choose your adventure book. Like who would you like to be interviewed by? Scary cyborg or Tom Cruise?

Chad (24m 17s):

That in itself would be incredibly cool. Morgan Freeman or

Joel (24m 21s):

Dave Chappelle. I want Dave Chappelle to interview me for my next job. Oh, I'm curious as well. So when COVID happened, we were like, awesome, the robot can like go and go in an interview room. It's germ-free yeah, you can wipe it down.

Chad (24m 36s):

That still works.

Joel (24m 37s):

But over the course of the year, I'm kind of thinking that interviews will primarily be video or at home or chat, like the fact that to go into a store or retailer and get interviewed face to face. Is that going to come back?

Chad (24m 51s):

Wait, it's not, will it come back? It's going to have to stay there because if you go into, let's say for instance, an Ikea and you say, I want to apply, well, you can just go into this room over here and interview with Tengai right? So there are practical applications, right? Those are more of the forest location scenarios. What are you going to do when that happens? Are you going to have to try to pull somebody off the floor? Do you have to do this? Do you have to schedule it? No, fuck that. Throw them in the room and have them talk to Tengai. Or if they're coming online to be able to go through the process, then you can schedule them and Tengai, you know, shoots them a link.

Joel (25m 28s):

Yep. So anyone who thinks this is just sort of a publicity stunt, I guess it's not, they are actually iterating and evolving this product. So best of luck to them. So let me keep score here. We're taking credit for the CareerBuilder announcement. We're taking credit for Seek Out for winning death match because everything took off for them once that happened and we're taking credit for the Tengai news. So we're doing pretty well. Let's take a break to pat ourselves on the back and we'll talk some acquisitions. And your favorite topic, Amazon.

Jobvite PROMO (25m 59s):

You know, Steve, it feels like we keep getting pushed to hire more and better candidates with no more budget. Right? I wish there was a way to get better results from what we're doing. Actually, I heard in episode of Chad and Cheese about this framework from Jobvite. Oh yeah. Evolve. It's a technology agnostic framework to help TA teams get better results from their recruiting efforts. And we don't even have to be a Jobvite by customer to use it. I bet we would get better results if we orchestrated all of our efforts. You mean like a centralized process and all of our channels working together? For sure, whether it's job boards, social, or even texting with candidates. Let's do that.

Jobvite PROMO (26m 39s):

I'll send you the link. Cool. I'm going to finish watching this episode of Bridgerton.

Chad (26m 44s):

Alright. Coming out of this one, I've got to let this one out. Cause I'm pretty stoked that a podcast I've been working on for months is going to drop on April 2nd.

Joel (26m 55s):


Chad (26m 55s):

So I'm breathing and breathing a little heavy. It's called Cult Brand Secrets, hosted by Chris Nealon and it is what you and I have actually experienced. It is pretty much the individuals that are speaking from Spotify, from the LA Lakers, from Beats by Dre, Yeti, Northface, Marvel Studios, Skittles, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all these huge brands and brand leaders, CMOs business leaders are actually speaking on stage. And we've turned that into a podcast. I mean, it's truly a masterclass for CMOs and brand leaders who want to stay sharp and not to mention everybody who someday wants to become a CMO and SVP of Marketing or brand or something like that.

Chad (27m 40s):

So I'm really stoked that's gonna drop soon!

Joel (27m 42s):

So Chris is leading the discussion.

Chad (27m 45s):

Chris is going to come in with learnings, like points of learning introductions, and then points of learning. So what you should be looking for, listen for during this podcast, then you have the podcast then after he goes over those learnings again. So this is truly one of those masterclass types of podcasts.

Joel (28m 3s):