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Disability Solutions

SmartRecruiters and Checkr Go Shopping

Maybe it's the fact the boys are recording from the Arizona desert this week, but this show is hot, hot hot! SmartRecruiters and Checkr go shopping, Yardstik gets paid, the Valley is bummed about losing workers to Web3 and we finally get some numbers around the metaverse ... including a definition. Pass the sunscreen and turn it up.

This one gets toasty.


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INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (29s):

Oh yeah. Feeling Indiana looking Arizona. Hi kids recording from Paradox HQ and pictureusque Scottsdal, Arizona. It's the Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your co-host Joel "it's a dry heat" Cheeseman.

Chad (46s):

And this is Chad "ready player one" Sowash.

Joel (49s):

And on this week's show Smart Recruiters and Checkr go shopping, in border takes flight and Silicon Valley fills the staying of Web3. Let's do this.

Chad (1m 1s):

What is Web3? Do we even know what web3 is?

Joel (1m 3s):

We're going to get into that.

Chad (1m 5s):


Joel (1m 5s):

Maybe after the second commercial, I don't know, dude. Why don't we record all of our shows like this?

Chad (1m 12s):

We should.

Joel (1m 13s):

Let's get a sponsor to fly us to Arizona for eight months out of the year. No summers, no summers.

Chad (1m 18s):

And we could bounce around. Doesn't have to be just Arizona has to be somewhere nice with a pool.

Joel (1m 24s):

Shaker's our travel sponsor. Let's talk to them about this.

Chad (1m 26s):

Wtih the hot tub and Tim Sackett has to be in the hot tub.

Joel (1m 30s):

On the unicorn floatie, if possible, if possible.

Chad (1m 35s):

Thanks to Paradox for bringing us out here and yeah, I mean, you know, hooking us up. It's been a good time.

Joel (1m 40s):

We both see what's known in the business as an analyst day.

Chad (1m 43s):

Oh, is that what this is?

Joel (1m 45s):

Show us the product. Answer questions.

Chad (1m 48s):

That's what this is?

Joel (1m 49s):

Yeah. Analysts stay under the sun.

Chad (1m 53s):

I have a Corona Corona.

Joel (1m 54s):

Corona, and it's too hot in the hot tub so we're recording in the shade right now. Let's get to the shout outs, shall we?

Chad (2m 0s):

Hit it!

Joel (2m 1s):

Actually, were you the one that sent me the sexual chocolate guy was getting off spot or Spotify. That was, that was fucking awesome. Randy, what's his name? Randy.

Chad (2m 12s):

Rainbow Hudson?

Joel (2m 13s):

Randy Watson from the peanut gallery. That was Tim Sackett with the cultural reference. Appreciate that. Let's get into some shout outs. I think this podcast is the only thing standing between us and a meatless or an endless meat buffet.

Chad (2m 27s):

The meat sweats.

Joel (2m 28s):

The meat sweats and whiskey later.

Chad (2m 30s):

I can't wait.

Joel (2m 31s):

I got a shout out for LinkedIn, Chad. You know, I love me a good LinkedIn poll. Loved me a good LinkedIn poll.

Chad (2m 39s):

You love to ride a poll.

Joel (2m 41s):

Oh man. So two went out recently. One is, one is kind of FYI. The other one is maybe the most important poll ever taken on LinkedIn. I'll get to the appetizer first. So I wanted to know what percent of candidates were ghosting you for the talent community.

Chad (2m 59s):


Joel (3m 0s):

Zero to 10, 40%, 10 to 25%, 35%, 25 to 50% ghosting, 17% and whopping 9% said 50% plus ghost them. So 75%, the bottom half.

Chad (3m 15s):

Nobody's Ghosting.

Joel (3m 16s):

Well, there's some ghosting on it. We had 250 votes, no, 298 votes on that one. Now the second one, much more culturally significant.

Chad (3m 24s):


Joel (3m 24s):

We got the big game coming up. I said with your wings, ranch or blue cheese.

Chad (3m 29s):

Oh, good call. Okay.

Joel (3m 29s):

Question for the ages. How do you think it played out? Who do you think won that?

Chad (3m 36s):

The classic is blue cheese. I'm a ranch kind of guy. So I'm going to go with ranch.

Joel (3m 41s):

Okay. Ranch was the winner. It was close to 54 ranch and 46 blue. We had 250 votes on that one and yes, anyone from the Buffalo Metro area were very strongly in the blue cheese camp. But anyway, this question is finally answered as far as I'm concerned, ranch over blue cheese.

Chad (3m 60s):

Excellent. Well, the ranch or blue cheese of the industry we'll call that Glassdoor seems like it's dead or at least that's what a series of TA leaders have been saying over the last few weeks. That's right. I guess the crew over at Glassdoor they're non-responsive whatsoever. You have people calling and this is multiple TA leaders, calling, not getting any response whatsoever. I'm wondering if Indeed is looking to finally pull the cord on this. What's going on?

Joel (4m 29s):

I can't believe they don't even transfer calls to Indeed. They just let it ring off the hook. Eighties, eighties, voicemail style.

Chad (4m 35s):

What did they have? Indeed has the job content. I mean, they don't do anything.

Joel (4m 39s):

The last one turning off the lights at Glassdoor, give us a shout and let us know what the hell is going on over there. Shout out for our friends at

Chad (4m 56s):

oooo! Aaron.

Joel (4m 57s):

Who we're partnered with Aaron Okay. So Triller and announced a partnership that will allow Triller users to discover and apply for open positions with a video resume. We love us some video resumes, Chad, not. Rather than the traditional resume using video transcription and AI matching. This is kind of interesting. The integration will provide Triller users with a job matching functionality where they can be matched with relevant jobs. I'm sure everyone putting on short form video on Triller, can't wait to get their hands on some job postings.

Chad (5m 26s):

So can we finally figure out what the fuck is going to be when they grow up? I mean, we had a credit card. We had a credit card. We had this new

Joel (5m 39s):

Hey Ma! Where's the magic eight ball?

Chad (5m 41s):

I mean, I don't know what they are going to be. Right. I don't know what the fuck they're gonna be?

Joel (5m 49s):

Going to be credit card.

Chad (5m 50s):

The credit card 2% over like 15 per, I mean, not as though

Joel (5m 56s):

Throw some NFTs or some crypto in there to really get our attention.

Chad (5m 60s):

What's next and Kleoverse. There you go.

Joel (6m 1s):

Oh, you gotta let's do that. So the European show, if you're lost on that one, you got to listen, listen to the Euro show. Another shout out HiredScore. Oh, our friends over there. We love us some Athena and Todd, and everybody.

Chad (6m 17s):

Hottest of war.

Joel (6m 19s):

Hottest of War. And apparently AI and employment. So our friends at HiredScore officially signed a strategic cooperation agreement this week with Tupou exciting, a lot, the technology and content provider of all-in-one recruitment solutions in, and this is the key point, Chad, China.

Chad (6m 35s):


Joel (6m 36s):

At least they said this deal will enable mutual clients to gain instant benefits from more efficient candidates, sourcing fair and intelligent candidate screening as well as improved employer branding capabilities. And did I mention this was in China, which I think is the most important point to take from this. If you can get into China, make friends with the CPC. I think there's money in those hills.

Chad (6m 56s):

Yeah. And if you think about it in our space, for the most part, you're not seeing investment coming from China into our world as much. Right? And if Athena goes after that huge fucking market, not to mention it's an immature market, right? So you go into this immature market, show up guns, blazing with poopoo or is it Tupu?

Joel (7m 23s):


Chad (7m 24s):

So anyway, I think it's genius. Hopefully

Joel (7m 26s):

My mandarin's musty. So who knows? Yes. LinkedIn's pulling out of China. Athena's going, not just the tip. She's going all in on China. Good for you. Athena good for you, Athena.

Chad (7m 39s):

Excellent. I have a shout out to Peloton who is laying off 3000 employees. The question is, what the fuck did they think was going to happen? They were spending money like drunken, fucking sailors and the pandemic, which juiced their business wasn't going to last forever. So what did they think was going to happen?

Joel (7m 57s):

They had a party and they invited the instructors and the employees didn't quite like that too much. The CEO has gone now though. Apparently.

Chad (8m 8s):

So what's going to save Peloton?

Joel (8m 9s):

They are the most expensive, a clothes hanger, a clothes dryer, whatever? What's going to happen is they're going to get acquired on the cheap by Nike or maybe Apple or I think Amazon was in there somewhere. Yeah. They'll get, they'll get snapped up on the cheap ala Fitbit or what other health gadget you probably own back in 2012.

Chad (8m 34s):

Yeah. Great product, great service. The problem is yeah, they were overextended and fucked themselves. So that's, let's, we'll see where they actually end up.

Joel (8m 43s):

Peloton. Shout out to my wife. I want to be a little bit self-serving here. Yeah. So Dr. Christine, for those that don't know, my, my wife is on the cutting edge of bugs as food. This is a real thing. It's coming to America in the form of pet food, probably.

Chad (9m 5s):


Joel (9m 5s):

Pet food. And now companies are giving environmental footprints on food and things that you buy.

Chad (9m 12s):

But why bugs?

Joel (9m 13s):

Why bugs? They are easy to replicate or reproduce quickly.

Chad (9m 17s):


Joel (9m 17s):

A lot of protein, a little bit to no space to take up. Yeah. They're, they're easy to manage quick to grow. They grow themselves. I mean, it's quite a miracle food.

Chad (9m 29s):

It's a miracle food.

Joel (9m 29s):

Anyway, to the point you're familiar with Davos probably rather than a lot of our listeners probably are. I'm sorry this is the world economic forum that puts on rich white dudes.

Chad (9m 40s):

Rich white dudes with their own private jets. That kind of shit.

Joel (9m 45s):

Yes. Yes. Those kinds of folks. So, my wife was published in the world economic forum newsletter this week. So when, you know, when she leaves me for Elon Musk or Jamie Diamond, you know, why and she was also interviewed by Wired Magazine. So this is a really hot topic. She's become a bit of a figure head for the bugs is food trend. Shout out to my wife.

Chad (10m 12s):

You go to the Cheeseman house for anything food.

Joel (10m 20s):

Don't eat the cupcakes. If you eat anything bread, there's bugs in it.

Chad (10m 25s):

Bug flour.

Joel (10m 26s):

Cricket flour specific.

Chad (10m 26s):

You've been warned. People shout out to a listener of ours. Sarah, we'll leave it at that. She asked Chad and Cheese who I love that song. She asked Chad and Cheese, I work for a insert, big job board name here, and a good bit of my customers' contacts are turning over. Curious to know whether you think something is going on in HR/talent as in moving to marketing, branding focus versus HR, or if it's just the attrition/musical chairs, we're seeing across the whole labor market? So what do you think Joel?

Joel (11m 1s):

Everyone's taking stock of their lives, I think. I think it's much like the great resignation. I don't think there's a simple answer. I think it's a lot of different things. People reevaluate in their life, people moving to other jobs or just rediscovering new things. I don't think there's an easy answer to that question.

Chad (11m 17s):

There's not, we have a talent shortage already. A lot of that spurred through retirements, immigration. I mean there's a ton of things that are going on right now. Not to mention, I don't know if you've noticed or not. There's a shit ton of startups. And when you have startups.

Joel (11m 33s):

Forty million new companies started last year, Chad.

Chad (11m 36s):

Well just look at our space though.

Joel (11m 39s):


Chad (11m 39s):

If you have startups in our space and you have a practitioner who is actually pulled, we've seen this, Tyler Weeks pulled into a position. I mean, they want to build shit because they know what's wrong within their process and their organization and they can't fucking fix it.

Joel (11m 57s):

Yeah. Those people are valuable.

Chad (11m 58s):

Yeah. So they leave! So like you'd said, there's a myriad of reasons why this is happening, but this is the time right now. If you have an opportunity and you get a chance to get some start-up time do it. You might not be happy at the end of it, but who knows? You might get a good exit.

Joel (12m 14s):

Yeah. Speaking of gig economy, this is why travel is so important. Chad, did you see the Uber cars with the ads on top?

Chad (12m 23s):

No, I did not.

Joel (12m 24s):

So this is, you can find out more at But do you remember, like in the early two thousands where companies paid you to put a wrap on your car and then they track mileage and those all kind of died? What, there are, Uber is out here in Phoenix with a digital ad board on top of their car. I'm guessing it magnetizes to the top or out. And then it's all I'm sure digitally put through. And then the driver gets money and obviously Uber gets money. So gig workers are going to make more money than they ever have before, which means less workers for a lot of people to hire, which means the talent crunch continues.

Chad (12m 57s):

So I can drive an Uber and I can put one of these on the top of my car.

Joel (13m 1s):

It looks too, I don't know all the details. Good. I just saw it this morning, but I'm sure that you, as a driver can opt to put this thing on your car and hope, I assume it comes down and pops on and off, and then ads are basically piped into it digitally. And the one I saw was put your ad on this car and you go to and then you can buy ad space on these cars. And I'm sure they share the revenue and they make more money as a driver. And you also can just probably just drive around with an ad and make money. And maybe where you are. If you're in a higher frequency area, you make more money on the ad than if you're in the suburbs driving around.

Joel (13m 42s):

So it's pretty genius.

Chad (13m 43s):

The new age billboard that we've seen in taxis for our entire fuckin' life.

Joel (13m 46s):

Not nearly as interesting as free shit from Chad and Cheese and Chad, I'm seeing way too many people not sign up and ask us, where's my shirt. Where's my shit. Where's my beer. You can't win people, unless you go to, we've got shirts from Emissary, whiskey from Textkernal. And we have beer from our friends Pillar Shout out to Chami Bailey who won our whiskey draw this week. She works at Boar's Head. One of my favorite meat producers.

Chad (14m 20s):

I got to say she lives in a part of the world where it's not easy to get her whiskey.

Joel (14m 29s):

Lebanon, Tennessee.

Chad (14m 29s):

We got her the whiskeys. Thanks for Joel doing a hard work on that one.

Joel (14m 34s):

You know what? Wouldn't be quicker driving to down there.

Chad (14m 39s):

You know what would be quicker? Cause you can't drive to Belgium, but you can fly and be there in early May get on the calendar right now, kids. Go to going to be in Belgium. Erecruitment-congress, Congress kind of says it all. Who's going to be speaking? We've got the an e-sports dude we've got.

Joel (14m 59s):

My favorite Scot is speaking isn't he? I think we're the two old Muppet guys in the balcony, screaming at everybody. Yeah. And that's good. We need a Bitly URL for that, for that URL. It's a little long.

Chad (15m 15s):

We should. Just go to Google and type in E recruitment Congress and I'm sure they'll be fine.

Joel (15m 21s):

Can we do redirects and wix, can we just do or Belgium?

Chad (15m 29s):

Okay. That being said also RecFest is in July, Chad and Cheese on the disrupt stage doing a little MC action there. Drinking some hard liquor, doing what we do.

Joel (15m 37s):

Yeah. Birthdays, birthdays, celebrating a birthday. It's a short list this week. If you want to be on this list, by the way you got to go to We got Charles Brett's Jonathan Zoom. I wonder if he's the Zoom, family.

Chad (15m 53s):


Joel (15m 54s):

Zoom, zoom. Maybe it's zoom. Correct? I did this on the plane on the way over there. All right. Jonathan Zoob. My bad.

Chad (16m 3s):

Zoom's my boy.

Joel (16m 5s):

All right. So some of these names might not be right. I got Andrew Mol and Jen Kurtz, sound about right. Okay. All right. Cool. I apologize, Mr. Zoom.

Chad (16m 17s):

He'll be fine. Mr. Zoom.

Joel (16m 20s):

Super bowl. Oh, we got to talk about this. Let's talk about this comments.

Chad (16m 24s):

First and foremost, seeing the Cincinnati Bengals get in, it hearkens back to Anderson. The days of Anderson quarterbacking, the Bengals and then them losing, by the way. Yeah, yeah,

Joel (16m 39s):

But both losses of to the niners.

Chad (16m 40s):

Mostly Killing. Yeah. Seeing them. And then also seeing a kid from Ohio quarterbacking, Joe Burrow. I would love to see the Bengals win, but I don't see it happening. And they're going to be playing an away game in LA stadium. And those guys are hot. Not just their offense, but their defense. And one of the problems that Cincinnati has had is Joe Burrow on his back.

Joel (17m 10s):

Yeah. And Evan Miller Arnold there, the other defensive end.

Chad (17m 13s):

Donald, we talked

Joel (17m 13s):

To Arnold or Donald Donald I'm thinking of Sam Arnold the wrong guy. Yeah. I mean, as a Clevelander, I'm a little torn about the whole Cincinnati thing. I'm not too excited. At least the colors are the same, but I'm a little torn now. Now for our draft Kings listeners, the line I think is four and a half.

Chad (17m 32s):

Huh? Is that it?

Joel (17m 32s):

Do you think that's it.

Chad (17m 33s):

I take that long.

Joel (17m 35s):

You take the take the Bengals at four and given four and a half points. They'd beat the chiefs by three.

Chad (17m 39s):

That, I mean, I think I know, I think LA is going to blow them out. LA's gonna blow them out. Yeah. I think Ella is going to blow them out. Okay.

Joel (17m 49s):

If the Chiefs didn't blow them out, I'm not sure that the Rams.

Chad (17m 55s):

I think the Rams Defense is better.

Joel (17m 58s):

So that'll be the X factor. The line sucks. So when it's string note in our industry, it looks like there will be no job sites, employment sites, LinkedIn, whatever advertising in this year's Superbowl, do you take anything from that?

Chad (18m 10s):

That's telling I think. I think it's telling him, cause you have ZipRecruiter, who's spending a shit ton of cash on podcasts.

Joel (18m 17s):

Indeed advertised last year.

Chad (18m 18s):

Advertising. I mean, but, but you also have to take a look at what was it like $7 million per 30 second ad? So I think they're taking a look at that and then the ROI from before and saying, look, we can probably spend that money throughout the year and do a better job. I don't know. But I think it's telling either one, one or two ways, either for our industry or the Super Bowl, they've just gotten way too rich.

Joel (18m 41s):

Yes. I wouldn't have been surprised if one of these unicorns that we talk about regularly just said, fuck it. Let's roll the dice on a super bowl ad and build our brand like a motherfucker all in 1999. Because you know, any one of these tech, B2B, whatever employment sites, that's not a job site, did a Workday style ad on the Super Bowl they'd instantly be a name that people would know.

Chad (19m 6s):

Yeah. They would definitely be a name that people would know. I'm just not sure they would get out of that, what they think they would get out of that. So. Topics!

Joel (19m 22s):

Alright, Smart Recruiters has acquired London base Attrax. That's A T T R A X, a provider of career site software that lets companies build, you guessed it, career sites. Founded in 1999 into my research Attrax looks like a totally bootstrap business. The acquisition will result in an integrated offering called Smart Recruiters Attrax that's clever. Designed to help customers build data powered curated career sites that enhance the candidate experience and improve hiring outcomes. Smart Recruiters CEO, founder, and friend of the show, Jerome Turnock said, in a release quote, "we chose Attrax for its impressive technology and proven ability to help customers build award-winning career sites.

Joel (20m 6s):

The integration of Smart Recruiters and attracts provides truly intelligent career sites that operate in tandem with the ATS deliver, deliver hiring success." Terms were not disclosed. Attrax employees around 20 people, no announcement on what's happening with their executives.

Chad (20m 23s):

So I used to think that this type of tech was pretty much table stakes for any applicant tracking system, but in the day and in today, or I should say today, these products, when they're built internally are really shit and they're not done well. Then we have, you know, the whole point solutions and being able to choose your own. And then you just integrate with our system. So I'm not sure, you know, if this is a great and smart move for, for Smart Recruiters, to be able to just have that ready and available, or if they should have just kept them as a point solution, unless they got them cheap.

Joel (21m 5s):

Yeah. I think layers is the keyword here. I think ATS is hate layers. I think they hate layers of services on top of their service and to the degree that they can buy those and make them their own. I think that they're going to do that. And we're seeing that more with white labeling of technologies saying, Hey, this is the Greenhouse programmatic solution, not the Appcast or some other provider and customers, I think, feel comfortable using the ATS's product or what looks like the ATS's product as opposed to someone layered on top of it. I think the other thing is, there's clearly a trend of recruiting following marketing solutions and these sort of do it yourself, landing pages, microsites, you know, I think in