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Textio is Toast

Listening to Chad & Cheese is like going to your favorite restaurant: You know what’s on the menu, and you know that you love it … which is why you keep coming in for more. Cheese is back from vacation and the boys are covering acquisitions, artificial intelligence, robots, LinkedIn, OnlyFans and so much more. All the flavors you know and love. Specifically, Mitratech has gobbled up Circa and Trakstar, Textio is toast thanks to ChatGPT and the White House sounds off on AI best practices. Then, LinkedIn partners with Clear to verify IDs, Digidog is back on the beat in New York City and Walmart keeps automating to phase out more and more workers. Lastly, the boys introduce you to Claudia, OnlyFans' worst nightmare.


Intro: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.


Joel Cheesman: Oh, yeah, it's National Ex-Spouse Day. But let's reflect on all the positive moments we shared with our exes, Chad.


Joel Cheesman: Hi, kids. You're listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast. This is your co-host, Joel, cheaper to keep her Cheesman.

Chad Sowash: And this is Chad, keeping up with the ChatGPT Joneses Sowash.

Joel Cheesman: And on this week's show, think twice before you stick it in to ChatGPT.


Joel Cheesman: LinkedIn finds a CLEAR path to ID verification. And who let the Digidog out?

[automated voice]

Joel Cheesman: Let's do this. Ooh, that was sound bite overkill.

Chad Sowash: Wow.

Joel Cheesman: How's that gonna sound? All right.

Chad Sowash: You can tell you're back. My God. Sound bites all over the fucking place.


Joel Cheesman: That's right. [laughter] I got an itchy trigger finger, baby. That's an itchy trigger finger.

Chad Sowash: A week away from the soundboard. This is what you get.

Joel Cheesman: Quincy filled in nicely though. Quincy brought the funk.

Chad Sowash: She did. She did. As a matter of fact, she's my first shout out because we had pretty amazing comments. We do generally get comments about guest hosts. But we never get the comments that we did for her. They literally, and we've had people say she deserves a third chair [laughter] on our weekly show. 'Cause she's smart. She knows her shit and all that other fun stuff, so that was pretty awesome. Not to mention she's been on the show quite a bit, so she doesn't have the butterflies or anything like that. So shout out to Quincy. Thanks for doing that.

[automated voice]

Joel Cheesman: Shout out for me to Rupert Murdoch. You'll remember, Chad, last time I was on the show, your favorite media mogul was getting married for the fifth time.

Chad Sowash: Thanks, Australia.

Joel Cheesman: 66-year-old, a former model. Yeah. It's time to scrap the wedding. The plans are off.


Joel Cheesman: Rupert told Vanity Fair that Rupert decided to end things due to "her outspoken evangelical views". She apparently said that Tucker Carlson was a messenger from God. And Rupert said, "Nope, I'm out." Looks like a life of high-priced escorts and shots of Maalox from here on out for the 92-year-old. Shout out to Rupert Murdoch.

Chad Sowash: You knew one thing, that was not a shotgun wedding. Shout out to the big-ass jug of maple syrup from our friends over at So, it's funny because it came obviously from Canada.

[automated voice]

Chad Sowash: And the one of the slips was all faded. So I couldn't tell who it came from. So I put it out on...

Joel Cheesman: Yeah, it was.

Chad Sowash: On the LinkedIn, on the socials, and all the plummers started coming out to Caitlin and the crew starts saying, hey, that's from us. But it's a big, it's over a gallon of fucking maple syrup, which is not cheap, my friend.

Joel Cheesman: So this showed up at my house, and my Canadian wife just about lost it. She was so excited. She's like, "You know how much money this is? This is like $300 worth of maple syrup." And that next day, no lie. Because it was Easter, we had ham basically lathered in maple syrup. [laughter] We had a, some sort of maple syrup dessert and we had carrots that were cooked in maple syrup. So my friend, I'm gonna be maple syruped to the gills until that gallon jug of maple syrup runs out. So yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Plum.

Chad Sowash: Diabetes alert from plum.

Joel Cheesman: No, it's all natural. It's all paleo, man. It's all good.


Chad Sowash: Yeah. Yeah. So Sylvie Doré, a Québécois by the way, said that we should cook our eggs in maple syrup. Use it instead of butter on low heat. To me, yes, Canada is foreign but I didn't think that fucking foreign, I never thought of that. [laughter]

Joel Cheesman: I kinda like that. I like that one. I like that one.

[automated voice]

Joel Cheesman: All right. So Elon Musk gets my next one.

Chad Sowash: Oh, my God.

Joel Cheesman: He revealed this week that Twitter has only 1500 employees down from 8000 when he took over the company. They're on track now to break even on cash flow as opposed to losing $3 billion. So Musk has fired roughly 80% of the company if you're keeping track at home. And the business is now arguably better off. I wonder now how many companies are gonna take Elon's lead and lay off a shit ton of developers. Wait and see for that one. Shout out to Elon for setting the standard for fewer developers is better developers.

Chad Sowash: Yeah. That thing's going down in a pile of fucking flames, dude. Jesus. It's fucking ridiculous. All right. It's the dick move of the week, kids. That's right.

Joel Cheesman: Oh, shit.

Chad Sowash: An employee asked to go remote, her CEO says he outsourced her job to India instead and saved 40% on labor cost. Wow. What a dick move, right? What company would treat their staff in that way? Well, according to Inc and Business Insider, the idea came from Johnny Taylor, the CEO of the Society of Human Resource Management, aka SHRM early last year after one of his employees made a case that her technology position could be done from anywhere. She wanted to leave Virginia where she held a job at SHRM, she asked to work remotely in North Carolina. Johnny says at that point, then a light bulb went off. I could actually go ahead, outsource her for 40% less cost. So the dick move of the week goes to Johnny C. Taylor. That's right, kids. Johnny, humans-don't-matter-to-me Taylor, the CEO of the Society for Human Resource Management, taking the human out of HR. Johnny Taylor. Good job asshole.

[automated voice]

Joel Cheesman: And why would he actually admit that? Why would he actually go on record?

Chad Sowash: It sounded like he was proud of it.

Joel Cheesman: I know. It's so bizarre. It's so bizarre. How bizarre. How bizarre.

Chad Sowash: How bizarre.

Joel Cheesman: All right, my last shout out goes to Chris Russell. This is a solemn shout out to an industry vet that a lot of our listeners know, or at least know of. He said goodbye to his greyhound Chase this week. Appropriate name for a greyhound, I think.

Chad Sowash: Yes.

Joel Cheesman: Chase was 13. And that really hit home from me because Mr. Peepers, our dog just hit 12 this week. And I know, Chad, you've got some geriatric dogs at your place, too. So putting down a pet is just the fucking worst.

Chad Sowash: Oh, yes.

Joel Cheesman: So our hearts go out to Chris. And if you know Chris, send him a note this week. Send him condolences. And if you really know Chris, he's a vodka guy. I'll just leave that. I'll just leave that right there. But Solemn, shout out to our friend Chris Russell.

Chad Sowash: Buy him a shot at UNLEASH. And that being said, events, kids, we're going to be at Unleashed. It's gonna be a party. Well, there's gonna be learning, networking, business but there's gonna be parties. And I understand that this year's ticket sales is up dramatically from last year. Right? So this is going to be the party, kids. I love the integrated community. And we talk about this all the time that UNLEASH has. But I'm really excited about all the shit that we have going on. So if you, listener, wanna come and meet Chad and Cheese, you want t-shirts, you want alcohol, wanna have a drink with us? Here's where you can find us. On Tuesday the 25th, Joel and I will be on stage during the vendor summit with our buddy Chris Conrad from Textkernel talking about the build, partner or buy conundrum that is a very common discussion for vendors. But now with the likes of, I don't know, ChatGPT, Bard and others coming into the market, do you build, partner or buy to keep up with the Joneses? That's the question. We'll be talking about that on stage with Chris from Textkernel. Then that evening we're going to be at the HiringBranch event at the High Roller. You're excited for this. I know, 'cause there's a bar and you're locked in with a bar for at least half an hour.

Joel Cheesman: So excited.


Chad Sowash: So if you're not already a part of the party, reach out to our friends at HiringBranch to see if there's still spots available because that pod's only so big. Then we're running to dinner with the team. Caitlin, Jason and the team. Then on Wednesday you'll be able to find us at the Workhuman booth. That's day one. Workhuman booth from noon to 4:00, where we're gonna be giving away t-shirts, doing interviews, and probably drinking, more than likely.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah.

Chad Sowash: That's the Workhuman booth from noon to 4:00 on day one, then right after that, wow. We're gonna be busy. 4:30, we're gonna be doing drinks before dinner with our friends from Taddeo. We only have about 40 slots, so go to, click on events. The banner up top. You can click on a little sign button if you get there fast enough, you might get a slot. Then the Talent Torque event right after drinks. [laughter] Is this all before dinner, shit. Anyways, that's, I think we have more on the calendar, but that's all I'm going for right now. So, see us at UNLEASH. Are you excited to go back to Vegas?

[automated voice]

Joel Cheesman: I am. And not with my family this time, no offense to my offspring and my wife but it'll be a different vibe this time around. My liver is less excited than I am, probably. Side note, I get to come home on the red eye, go to Louisville, and I'm in the mini marathon on that Saturday. So I get to spend a whole week of debauchery and suicide, basically to come back and try to finish a marathon. So pray for me everybody.

Chad Sowash: And then right after that, we're gonna find ourselves back on the plane going back to the West Coast. Early May, we're gonna be at Coronado Beach in California for iCIMS Inspire. We're scheduled to close out the day on stage with special guests. So we're supposed to be doing a panel but they don't let us know who they are yet.

Joel Cheesman: So secretive.

Chad Sowash: That seems a little sketchy. No matter. Those are just two of the events on the calendar thus far for 2023. Go to register for them all at Click on events. We'll see you there.


S?: Really? Can you feel the tension in the air right now? I know I can. I can feel it all the way down in my plums.

Joel Cheesman: That's right, Chad. It's time for birthdays.

[automated voice]

Chad Sowash: Yes.

Joel Cheesman: If it's your birthday in any particular month, you could win a nice bottle of rum from our friends at Plum, as well as you gotta go to Click on the free link and you could win t-shirts, whiskey and beer from all of our great sponsors that you'll find on the site. Celebrating another trip around the sun this week is Sean Godfrey, Todd Burns, Amy English, Samilla Chevalakadu, Alakazoo Alakazam. Something rather.

Chad Sowash: I love that.

Joel Cheesman: Jason Casey, Patrick York, Arno Schafer, Zer Gut celebrating birthday. Jason Crowell, Rob McIntosh, Amanda Height, Lauren the intern, Queen Burger, Brian Moore, Carrie Noon and my second favorite Canadian turned American, Stephen dad-jokes-for-days Rothberg.


S?: Happy birthday!


Joel Cheesman: Happy birthday, everybody. Another trip around the sun.

S?: Happy birthday!

Joel Cheesman: Topics! All right. Hard hitting acquisition news. Austin-based HR software solution, Mitratech has expanded its portfolio through the acquisition of Milwaukee's Circa, a provider of OFCCP software and Seattle-based Trakstar, a talent acquisition, development and performance management solution. Terms of the deal not disclosed. The company says the acquisition will help Mitratech emerge as a leader in HR compliance and talent strategy. They hope to help organizations with a range of solutions for recruitment, onboarding and development. Chad, you're pretty close to this, your thoughts.

Chad Sowash: Yeah, congrats to Patrick, Kathy, and the whole Circa staff. I bet Patrick can't wait to get out of the fucking door. Get out of this industry. For those who remember, Circa was a rebrand from a very, very, very old network of sites called Local Job Network. LJN was more of a mom and pop shop. They were SMB, they're an SMB player in our space and owned a number of sites like

Joel Cheesman: Yeah, Scott Molitor. Yeah.

Chad Sowash: Yeah. It really was like the old jobbing model to some extent. Then they flipped into compliance and OFCCP job distribution for VEVRAA and 503. When Patrick came in as CEO of Circa, they started buying up all of their competitors, at least trying to so that they could expand their portfolio and drive growth. They bought AJE, Diversity Jobs, Job Finder, which I hope they bought that thing for a song for God's sake.

Joel Cheesman: Oh God, I forgot about Job Finder.


Chad Sowash: Anyway, congrats to the team. Did you get a chance to watch the two-minute announcement video?

Joel Cheesman: No, I had better things to do.

Chad Sowash: Okay.

Joel Cheesman: I assumed you did watch it.

Chad Sowash: Oh, my God.

Joel Cheesman: Highlights?

Chad Sowash: Dude, you gotta watch it. So I felt like this was a segment in one of those '80s televangelist programs where they're sitting on like Mav chairs with a little table and a fake plant between them. It looks...

Joel Cheesman: Between two ferns?

Chad Sowash: Yes. Yes. It looks like they might have been filming in somebody's basement. Anyway, Mitratech had three acquisitions last year. TalentReef, AssureHire and Quovant. And this is the first two for this year. So it seems like, and I don't know, we might have to reach out to the Mitratech, Mitratech, whatever they call themselves, staff because it seems like a not so integrated portfolio. We have this portfolio of services, they're all over the place. They make sense, but it's not like we're going to integrate them to create one platform for them all because that shit costs money. [laughter]

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. This feels like buying your prom tuxedo at TJ Maxx where nothing's quite matching. Well, you're still in tuxedo, but you're not in the same tuxedo and you've just sort of piecemealed this whole thing together.


Chad Sowash: Which is okay.

Joel Cheesman: I don't know, Mitratech's a pretty big company.

Chad Sowash: Yes.

Joel Cheesman: Like you mentioned, they're making moves. Circa, long weird history. Just a weird hodgepodge of acquisitions. And you're right, Jobbing pretty much owned every, And the other guys owned every city. So Milwaukee Jobs, Indianapolis Jobs, Cleveland Jobs, so dated model. This is like dinosaurs marrying government regulations. It's just a weird thing. Trakstar I know less about. They have apparently over 3,000 customers including like Dyson, Ben & Jerry's, they've been around a while. They've gotten a little bit of money. But they've also been around for a long time, I think.

Chad Sowash: Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: So, I don't know. We talk about consolidation and this is gonna be more common than not, but yeah, what a weird strange trip for Circa and to have it finally put out of its misery, I think that's just good for everybody. What a hodgepodge of crazy shit they were, man.

Chad Sowash: Well, yeah, it's weird too because you take a look at the compliance landscape, which is incredibly important for major, major organizations because if they want government money and they all do, they have to abide by these regulations and they have to comply. There aren't as many players now, obviously since all the consolidation happens.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah.

Chad Sowash: Which means competition is not going to be there. Broadbean created their own platform, which was bolted onto CareerBuilder. Broadbean is dying on the Vine as we speak, I'm waiting for that thing to get acquired sometime soon. Because to be quite frank, all it has is a portfolio. It's got a good portfolio, don't get me wrong, and partnerships, but at the end of the day, it's not gonna grow. It's not gonna be anybody's rocket ship. So I see just this landscape really consolidating, which means, again, competition is going to dwindle, which means prices are gonna go up.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. And I think it's funny thing you mentioned Diversity Jobs. There was a day where like, that was diversity recruiting. Just because your job was on a site called and we are targeting a diverse candidate.

Chad Sowash: Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: Sort of thanks to AI, thanks to some tools that have been created in the last 20 years, I saw Diversity Jobs is just so antiquated. It's ridiculous.

Chad Sowash: Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: I mean that must have been just thrown in as an extra. By the way, looking at my notes, Trakstar is a 20-year-old company that looks like it was bootstrapped. So those guys just might have been like, we're done, we're done with this shit. We're gonna go hang on a beach and drink some beer.

Chad Sowash: Lifestyle company maybe. Yeah?

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. I think they're, are they in Seattle? Yeah, they got better things to do if they're in Seattle. But yeah, this is, it's not gonna move the needle. I don't know how much it'll, yeah, like diversity, OFCCP is your lane more than mine. Is it gonna drive up prices for companies to...

Chad Sowash: I think that's the possibility. And you can't underestimate compliance 'cause once again, if you're not complying, then you don't have access to the loads of money that the government contracts out for. So these are incredibly important pieces. When we built a national labor exchange at Direct Employers, we went from 140 member companies, which took us five years to get to 140 member companies. In 18 months, we were over 400 just because of that initiative. That's how important it was. It drew that many brands our way.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. It's the gift that keeps on giving and will continue to give. All right. Moving on. All right, let's go to AI. A total pivot from this old school shit. All right. So the White House Office of Science and Technology policy, who knew that existed, has identified five principles to guide the design, use, and deployment of automated systems that protect the American public in the age of artificial intelligence. Call it an AI bill of rights, including rules around safe and effective systems, algorithmic discrimination protections, notice and exploration, human alternatives, consideration and fallback, as well as data privacy. Chad, your thoughts on the White House statement around AI?

Chad Sowash: They're definitely steps that government should be taking, but this is all words. We're not seeing any action on any of these things yet. We did see action from Italy right out of the gate. They said that they were going to ban ChatGPT, and that brought OpenAI to the table for negotiations. And so those words were words of action and it resonated with OpenAI. A couple of things that need to happen here. We've already had problems with AI, algorithms, data privacy, all these things that they listed. Right? But it's all words until we see a major fine for one of these organizations and or a CEO wearing orange in a 6 X 8 cell.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. They actually put out a handbook for this. How government is that? Pick up a copy at your local postal service building, anyway. Yeah, this is like a driver's ed handbook without cops on the street. Here's your guide, friends but there's nothing out there that's got teeth and can bite you. So it's relatively harmless and meaningless until...

Chad Sowash: Yes.

Joel Cheesman: Until the cops do show up [laughter] and the cops do pull you over, the government will have something to say, hey, we told you, we told you this is what we were gonna do. We told you how this was gonna go down. You decided to speed and run that red light anyway, so don't blame us. We warned you that this was gonna happen.

Chad Sowash: Well, then you're gonna be there at that house party in that TJ Maxx tux. That's what you're gonna get caught in. [laughter]

Joel Cheesman: That was powder blue tuxedo, by the way.

Chad Sowash: Oh, okay. That's a good call. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. I think it's a good step. I think Italy, look, governments that ban this shit just means they're gonna lose to China, 'cause China's not gonna ban this. It's gonna run amok and...

Chad Sowash: And see this is a step though. This is a step though. This brought OpenAI to the table.

Joel Cheesman: This is different than banning ChatGPT. I'm saying guardrails and regulation, I'm letting people know, that's fine. You mentioned Italy, I just wanted to throw that out, I don't see that as a trend because you're just gonna lose to the countries that do have AI development. Anyway, talking about AI development, let's get to our next AI story. Our friends at Textio, they've reorganized their team cutting 15 roles and hiring for new positions as it seeks to prepare for anticipated growth. Ooh, the company's CEO, Kieran Snyder said generative AI features are becoming increasingly important to the writing experience as people's expectations for "magical and fast" experiences increase. Can you say disruption? Chad, your thoughts on the move by Textio?

Chad Sowash: I can say that they can see the writing on the wall. That's what they can see. They've been around since 2014. They haven't been acquired yet. This is a company that should have been acquired, easily. They are, I think, living on borrowed time depending on how close they keep it, the secret sauce to their vest because this is all going to become a commodity, period. Large language models are going to start absorbing domain specific models. They're gonna be trained off of them. And to say this is for anticipated growth is I think totally a curve ball in saying that, hey, we've got to batten down the hatches and find a way to sell this thing quickly. There are organizations that are out there. It mentioned Textkernel just bought a chatbot, right? There are organizations that are out there that need these data sets. I don't know what the price has been for Textio but I guarantee you, it is sinking very fast.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah, that's an interesting, interesting take. We said early on that ChatGPT was gonna be a large amount of pee in Textio's juice box, punch bowl, if you will. And clearly this means it is. They see the writing on the wall, just like you said, I viewed her comments as, we're going to do what ChatGPT does. But we're gonna hope you don't notice because we're doing it in a different way, even though it's probably about the right way or the same way. And you're gonna still pay the crazy-ass price tag for Textio in the process. It's probably part, sell this thing as fast as we can and part how long can we survive by saying we implement this stuff but it's different because it's Textio, it's got the Textio secret sauce in it. She's probably making a bet that they can survive long enough to sell. They've raised 42 million some dollars. So their price tag is not TJ Maxx bargain bin levels. This is not buying Okay?

Chad Sowash: Right.

Joel Cheesman: So this is gonna be one hell of a dance prom that she's gonna have to go to and dance at to figure out who's gonna buy the company or how long we survive. Six months from now, if they haven't found a buyer or they're seeing not a lot of traction in companies, you're gonna see another round of layoffs. Six months from that, probably another round of layoffs. This thing could be a real slow death. For a company that was a high flyer for a long time, Textio was the darling of AI and job description and they were in that sweet spot of like everything for a while. And ChatGPT came out and kicked them squarely in the nuts. So, yeah, it's not, Textio is not a good place to be. They're gonna be a lot of companies disrupted by ChatGPT and they are the obvious first but they won't be the last. This will be an ongoing story for the next months to come.

Chad Sowash: Yeah. Well, you see companies like Talkpush and Paradox who are more a part of the process and then also trying to find ways to gather data with a better user experience. And even Wade & Wendy with Pando, right? With PandoLogic. So these are mechanisms in which to actually gather the data and then again, build that huge heap of secret sauce that everybody needs. Textio doesn't have that front end, but I'm saying they are seeing the writing on the wall.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. To be a sales rep at Textio and get the comment of like, "Well, my ATS already has built this in to do what you guys do or at least get 80% there. Why am I paying for it?" [chuckle] That's a really uncomfortable phone call that Textio sales reps are gonna start having if they're not already.

Chad Sowash: It's an expensive product when that starts to become, let's even just say 50% is good, right?

Joel Cheesman: Yeah.

Chad Sowash: That that becomes a feature, Textio is gonna become a feature, not a platform, a feature in some of these major platforms.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. Yeah. They've gotten leapfrogged in a big way from what I can tell.

Chad Sowash: Quick.

Joel Cheesman: All right. Sticking with ChatGPT, let's talk about their terms of service, which everyone should be aware of. A recent post by startup founder and angel investor Kai Uhlig warns against putting proprietary or personal data into ChatGPT. He cites an example of Samsung's semiconductor division using ChatGPT to check their source code, which OpenAI was able to access. While OpenAI has no interest in reproducing or copying user content, users should be aware that their data is being used to improve the models. Says it right there in the terms of service. Chad, your thoughts on using ChatGPT and the minefield that it is?

Chad Sowash: Yeah. Most people don't realize that their interactions with ChatGPT, questions, prompts, all of it, you're training the algorithm, your data that you're putting into is training the algorithm. So if you're QAQC-ing code in the Samsung case, what you're doing is you're teaching the platform. So unless you're using the API, which have different terms of service, but they do have three options, or at least Kai, thanks again Kai for doing all this work, buddy. He has three options on how you can move forward. Number one, you can use the API for OpenAI. The terms of service are different. Number two, you can opt out. There's actually a form where you can opt out and then you can set up your own secure instance of Microsoft Azure. So there are ways to get around giving your secret sauce as we were just talking about with Textio, it's an OpenAI, but again, yes, buyer beware, user beware in this case.

Joel Cheesman: So some of the kids, this might be a history lesson to them. When Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter all had APIs, everybody got all hot and bothered, man. They built all kinds of stuff on these platforms. You remember, Be Known, you remember BranchOut, I think built on Facebook...

Chad Sowash: TweetMyJobs.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. TweetMyJob, all kinds of stuff. The rug got pulled out from almost all of them. And I was reminded this week because I register for a lot of services that are using Twitter APIs to collect data on public companies and stocks and stuff like that. Well, I got an email from one of the services I follow, they shut down because Twitter basically cut off their API unless you wanted to pay super exorbitant fees to use said APIs. As a startup, they weren't willing or able to do that. So it is a cautionary tale. As you use ChatGPT's API, keep in mind that they could pull the rug out from under you. Just something to keep in mind. Whenever you build on someone else's platform, it's very dangerous. Now, back to the topic here of putting data into ChatGPT. Yes. That's gonna be an ongoing issue.

Joel Cheesman: You and I have talked to companies that are like, we can't use it because the company doesn't want proprietary information or stuff about our company going into the database. I think a lot of it's a little bit of undeserved fear but we'll see. It's definitely not worth getting bit over by having your source code [laughter] given by somebody like Samsung to ChatGPT. That's super dangerous. And certainly as we deal with employment, we've got profile data, we've got job data, all kinds of stuff that people may fear putting into ChatGPT to get answers for stuff and look for stuff and whatever. So it is something to keep an eye on. I love that he had here three strategies to get around it. You can get outta that. So if you are gonna use ChatGPT or you're worried about sensitive information, make sure that your belts and suspenders, cover your bases and make sure that you don't get pinched like Samsung did. That's bad. That's bad news. All right, let's talk a little. [laughter] LinkedIn, baby. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Drink down that Kool-Aid baby. Oh, here we go.

Chad Sowash: Oh, God.

Joel Cheesman: LinkedIn is partnering with identity verification company CLEAR. Maybe you've seen them at an airport.

Chad Sowash: I have.

Joel Cheesman: To launch new identity verification features for its users, enabling them to confirm their names and employers with a free government ID check. Additionally, the social media company is introducing two other ways for users to confirm their identities. A verification code sent to the company email address of the user's employer, and a partnership with Microsoft Intra to verify user's identities and employers through workplace IDs. The new feature will add a verification field to LinkedIn profiles, which will show which details have been verified. Twitter Blue, hold my beer. Chad, your thoughts.

Chad Sowash: LinkedIn CLEAR. I like that they're moving down this path with regard to trying to at least possibly start kicking out some of these fake-ass LinkedIn profiles. There aren't as many as there are on Twitter but they are all over the place on LinkedIn. The problem it doesn't solve is portability and being able to have this as really your standard ID to apply everywhere. Right? Because Indeed, there's no way in hell Indeed's gonna allow this in their system. So there has to be a third-party that's doing this that isn't a "threat," let's say to an Indeed and or a LinkedIn. So portability isn't there. Then the credentialing piece is also something different. That's something that we do need now. There's not really that much user control behind this because who owns the data? LinkedIn does. Remember the HighQ case? LinkedIn owns this data. Fuck you LinkedIn. That's my data, right? So I like where they're moving. The problem is, this isn't the answer. This is at best one of those little bitty pinky bandaids that you put on stuff. [laughter]

Joel Cheesman: The little round one with the little square cotton ball. Yeah.

[automated voice]

Joel Cheesman: All right. So I think this is huge, if...

Chad Sowash: Huge? Okay.

Joel Cheesman: If, and LinkedIn has no history of this, if they get it right. Fake profiles are a huge problem on LinkedIn. It's a huge problem everywhere. And partnering with CLEAR, not building it themselves, having these third-parties. So in your instance, does CLEAR become the ID company of record? Probably not. I filed taxes recently. A real joy for everyone, I know. Certainly for you as well, Chad. So on the government site, you can log in with, I think it's or there's a global ID thing, which I've used in something else as well. They're trying to be a clearinghouse for all things identity. And the government has in its wisdom figured out that that's a good solution for that. You've talked about blockchain in the past, being sort of an all-encompassing resume or something you can take everywhere. But this is huge because LinkedIn has a huge problem with fake profiles. And if this helps that, I think that's great.

Joel Cheesman: I do think it's a good move against the bots and the AI onslaught that's going to happen. You and I have talked about ChatGPT creating multiple profiles and applying to jobs. This'll help fight some of that. You could argue that it cuts off the blockchain threat before it becomes something really serious. And ultimately, algorithm love is gonna drive adoption, right? So if you have a little check, you're identified or you're verified by LinkedIn, they already have little in icon that verifies you. But if recruiters are looking through profiles and they see like someone is a genuine user, they're backed by whatever, if they move them higher to the top of the search results. If I'm a real person, my post and shares get more love because I am, that, the algorithm could drive a lot of usage on this, and it could become a really big thing. Time will tell if it's the thing, but it is a thing and it's a step in the right direction for LinkedIn. I say good for them.

Chad Sowash: Little bitty bandaid.

Joel Cheesman: Let's go to bots. Let's go to bots.

[automated voice]

Joel Cheesman: That's right. Who let the dogs out? Chad, New York City officials have brought back a robotic dog called Digidog, which was leased back in 2020 but the contract was cut short after critics called it creepy and dystopian. "Digidog is out of the pound," said New York City Mayor Eric Adams, who added the won't bow to anti-robotic dog pressure. Or is that he won't bow wow. Sorry.

Chad Sowash: So bad. So bad.

Joel Cheesman: Sorry. And at Chad's favorite place to buy sunscreen for his overly exposed head this summer, Walmart has said that the unit cost of moving goods will fall 20% within three years as warehouse robots play a bigger role in speeding up deliveries to customers. They've been investing heavily in automation in recent years to keep pace with Amazon and other rivals and said that the revamped supply chain would ease cost pressures tied to the rise of e-commerce and help end a decade of stagnation in US operating income. Walmart getting chesty, New York City Digidog, Chad, bots running amok this week. Your thoughts?

Chad Sowash: Yeah. Eric Adams just doesn't give a fuck. He just, he doesn't, and I understand that the bringing the dogs in, people have to get used to them and they freak the out of some people when they first brought 'em out a few years ago.

Joel Cheesman: Yep.

Chad Sowash: So they've gotta get everybody used to the dogs. Totally get it. Until one of those things hurts somebody. But this is, again, this is very, very RoboCop-ish. We're going to see these types of things, especially since it's so hard to find police officers and to retain police officers. We need to have policing, and if we can't have humans to find policing, but at the end of the day, this is where we live with regard to staffing issues. Same thing with Walmart. Walmart has issues finding staff, keeping staff because of pay and whatnot. But they've done a better job over the past few years in those areas. But this is about trying to phase out jobs that people don't wanna have anyway. And if we can actually take those individuals and start to push them up the ranks, that's good for everybody. So if we are "getting rid" of jobs that are shitty jobs in the first place, then great.

Joel Cheesman: You know, I was saying just Walmart real quick. As minimum wage goes up and companies like Walmart increase it, they're able to say, we're reducing costs that much more when they replace those people with robots. So instead of a 10% decrease, now it's 20 because we're paying these people more. It just, it struck me as like an interesting PR move. Let's pay people more and then we can say we're saving more with the robots. I haven't heard anything about that truck or them expanding the driverless truck program. I would love to see more of that. I think the warehouse robot and the janitor robot and the whatever robot, that's kind of boring. I'm wanna see more cars automated from Walmart going into the future. Now to the robot dog, Digidog.

Chad Sowash: Yes.

Joel Cheesman: Which I think is really cool.

[automated voice]

Chad Sowash: The Black Mirror episode.


Joel Cheesman: Black Mirror, granted creepy as hell. But to your point, not only is it hiring cops is a pain in the ass, this helps fill that void. We talked recently about Hilton bringing in Peloton bikes and Starbucks, whatever entertainment centers or relaxation pods and shit like that. How cool is it to now wanna be a cop because you get to work alongside a robotic dog? Only a monkey in a truck is better than working alongside a robotic dog. So I think it would be a really cool training video or recruiting video to be like, you're gonna be on the new canine program and you're gonna learn Digidog and high tech shit. It is a cool, I think, employment branding play. Robot security is here to stay. This is gonna be a thing. I don't think it's gonna be RoboCop anytime soon where they take a man, a robot and really fuck shit up. And I don't think they're gonna be armed anytime soon.

Chad Sowash: Yeah. Well, and then what about the Digi peepers?

Joel Cheesman: For the real peepers might not like the Digi peepers.


Joel Cheesman: I don't know how that would work. A drone, he would like. You could make a drone/dog, like dog friend. The drone could spit out treats to the dog. It could talk to the dog in your voice, as well as fight crime in your home. I'm telling you, man, there are huge business opportunities in this marketplace. And I'm here for it, Chad. I am here for it. I'm here for it. Bring on the bots if it helps us say bye-bye to the bad guys. We'll say goodbye to the bad guys and say hello to Claudia. That's right. The AI creation has been receiving compliments and payments from red users for her supposed selfies and nude photos. Claudia was created by two anonymous computer science students whose post AI generated images of her online. Who didn't see this coming, Chad? The call for regulation and the potential harm this trend could cause are getting louder. And if this isn't keeping all the ladies on OnlyFans up at night, maybe it should. Your thoughts.

Chad Sowash: This is gonna take catfishing to another level. That's all there is to it, man. Because you're gonna have all these... I can't remember the linebacker's name who got catfished.

Joel Cheesman: Mateo?

Chad Sowash: Manti Te'o. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: Manti Te'o. Yeah.

Chad Sowash: You're not gonna know who's real and who's not. This is getting so crazy. Our voices are cloned. We're speaking in several languages. There are avatars that are coming out now, 10 guy just came out with an avatar that are lifelike avatars. And now you have these AI images which we're seeing all over the place now, MidJourney, just everywhere. Dahlia, catfishing is gonna suck. And OnlyFans, that's, man, it's just gonna be, it's gonna be a weird time. These are the types of jobs I don't wanna see go away because these people feel safe in their home. They get to make the money that they want. Maybe not $80,000 a month. Okay. But yeah, I'd hate to see this go away because Skynet is taking over porn.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. I fear this is the slow death of OnlyFans. Why pay $10 a month, not that I would know, for one real girl getting naughty online when I could pay $10 a month for unlimited amounts of girls or guys getting naughty when I can't tell the difference on a computer screen? Plus this new service will let me pornify, if that's a word, it is now, if it's not before. Pornify celebrities as well as my crush from college, complete with, as you said, their voices.

Chad Sowash: So fucking creepy.

Joel Cheesman: Forget the end of OnlyFans. This is gonna be the end of humanity. Big booty Latinas are going to kill us all, Chad.


S?: We out.

Outro: Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast. Or maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back. Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell. Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey. Or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckleheads instead. Now, go take a shower and wash off all the guilt, but save some soap because you'll be back. Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.


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